Steve Jobs has stepped down from being CEO of apple. How this plays out should become interesting.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/24/steve-jobs-resigns-as-ceo-of-apple/
Not much of a surprise, he hasn't seemed too enthusiastic about it lately.
I just wonder how it will end up playing out. There are still a few routes Apple can take, and I really think they were already on the precipice, and now it's time to find which way they fall over it.
They aren't going anywhere. ;)
Quote from: custosnox on August 25, 2011, 07:38:12 AM
Yet
Remember how well HP was run until they got a new CEO. While that's an extreme example, there no one saying it couldn't happen.
Quote from: Hoss on August 25, 2011, 08:02:11 AM
Remember how well HP was run until they got a new CEO. While that's an extreme example, there no one saying it couldn't happen.
I personally think that Apples one size fits all attitude towards their product has put them at a disadvantage with other platforms coming out to rival them. I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Quote from: custosnox on August 25, 2011, 08:20:11 AM
I personally think that Apples one size fits all attitude towards their product has put them at a disadvantage with other platforms coming out to rival them. I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Yeah, I hear WebOS is great!
Quote from: swake on August 25, 2011, 08:23:03 AM
Yeah, I hear WebOS is great!
I was referring more to the Android part of the market.
Quote from: ZYX on August 24, 2011, 09:57:28 PM
Not much of a surprise, he hasn't seemed too enthusiastic about it lately.
You mean with fighting pancreatic cancer, having a liver transpplant and being mostly bedridden on medical leave since January?
Yeah, he should really quit being so lazy.
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 25, 2011, 08:49:13 AM
You mean with fighting pancreatic cancer, having a liver transpplant and being mostly bedridden on medical leave since January?
Yeah, he should really quit being so lazy.
Slacker!
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 25, 2011, 08:49:13 AM
Yeah, he should really quit being so lazy.
Dude, totally. He's really been letting me down.
Unfortunately, I'm taking this as a sign his health issues may have become terminal.
Although he's got a major cult following, Apple is far bigger than Steve Jobs.
Considering Apple's sales numbers, profits, and incredibly well-received product launches over the last few years there's nothing to worry about and no other shoe to drop. They've earned a lot of converts to their product line in the last few years. Without a doubt, Jobs is one of the most amazing (if not THE most) business success stories in global history. He has contributed product ideas and been an inspiring presence at Apple, but let's face it, he's not the sole reason for the company's success. There's a very good leadership team which has been carefully groomed and tutored under him.
When I bought my first Apple product two years ago, an iPhone, I didn't buy it because of whether or not Steve Jobs was a the helm. I also now have a Mac Book and both my kids are on them as well. Next computer FMC gets will be an Apple product. Personally, I see a much better product in the integrated hardware and software platforms from Apple and their service is top notch.
I think the corporate culture he leaves behind him will far outlive his time at Apple. I'm quite well aware Apple went into a funk when he departed the last time, but I believe many lessons have been learned from that and they have incredibly successful platforms to build on.
Quote from: custosnox on August 25, 2011, 08:20:11 AM
I personally think that Apples one size fits all attitude towards their product has put them at a disadvantage with other platforms coming out to rival them. I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Technically they make 18 different iPads and like 9 or 10 different phones. Just like when the iPod was first released, they only had one model for years and then split the lines out into 3 or 4 models per line with different colors/capacities in each model. Expect the same in the phone and tablet markets, but at present, manufacturing can't keep up with the simplified lineup as it is.
Apple's 2009 model, the iPhone 3GS is currently the #2 selling smartphone on the market. Clearly, it's not hurting them.
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 25, 2011, 08:56:18 AM
Technically they make 18 different iPads and like 9 or 10 different phones. Just like when the iPod was first released, they only had one model for years and then split the lines out into 3 or 4 models per line with different colors/capacities in each model. Expect the same in the phone and tablet markets, but at present, manufacturing can't keep up with the simplified lineup as it is.
Apple's 2009 model, the iPhone 3GS is currently the #2 selling smartphone on the market. Clearly, it's not hurting them.
The sad thing is that if Apple's technology disappeared today, in 5-10 years Microsoft and Google would catch up to them!
Quote from: custosnox on August 25, 2011, 08:20:11 AM
I personally think that Apples one size fits all attitude towards their product has put them at a disadvantage with other platforms coming out to rival them. I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
People have said that about Apple for 30 years, yet more and more people have flocked to them in the last 5 years.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 25, 2011, 08:55:43 AM
Unfortunately, I'm taking this as a sign his health issues may have become terminal.
Although he's got a major cult following, Apple is far bigger than Steve Jobs.
Considering Apple's sales numbers, profits, and incredibly well-received product launches over the last few years there's nothing to worry about and no other shoe to drop. They've earned a lot of converts to their product line in the last few years. Without a doubt, Jobs is one of the most amazing (if not THE most) business success stories in global history. He has contributed product ideas and been an inspiring presence at Apple, but let's face it, he's not the sole reason for the company's success. There's a very good leadership team which has been carefully groomed and tutored under him.
When I bought my first Apple product two years ago, an iPhone, I didn't buy it because of whether or not Steve Jobs was a the helm. I also now have a Mac Book and both my kids are on them as well. Next computer FMC gets will be an Apple product. Personally, I see a much better product in the integrated hardware and software platforms from Apple and their service is top notch.
I think the corporate culture he leaves behind him will far outlive his time at Apple. I'm quite well aware Apple went into a funk when he departed the last time, but I believe many lessons have been learned from that and they have incredibly successful platforms to build on.
Keep in mind that Tim Cook has essentially been running things since January, and Jobs will continue as Chairman for the time being. Expect little or no short term changes.
I come from the Unix/Novell world, support Microsquish currently. Never been a huge apple fan since I programmed on the Apple II. I too am a recent convert because all of apple's products are built on a very stable and secure platform. Android is neither, as proven by the recent info from Mcafee showing it as the #1 target for mobile malware with vulnerabilities up 76%. Not to mention the amount of software that is straight stolen from Sun (which I also supported at one time) and the fqct the whole point of Android is to log your activity, collect data, and use it to better serve ads and provide data to marketing firms.
Quote from: Gaspar on August 25, 2011, 08:58:24 AM
The sad thing is that if Apple's technology disappeared today, in 5-10 years Microsoft and Google would catch up to them!
too bad their management software doesn't meet the high standard of their hardware. In a word: sucks.
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 25, 2011, 09:01:45 AM
Keep in mind that Tim Cook has essentially been running things since January, and Jobs will continue as Chairman for the time being. Expect little or no short term changes.
I come from the Unix/Novell world, support Microsquish currently. Never been a huge apple fan since I programmed on the Apple II. I too am a recent convert because all of apple's products are built on a very stable and secure platform. Android is neither, as proven by the recent info from Mcafee showing it as the #1 target for mobile malware with vulnerabilities up 76%. Not to mention the amount of software that is straight stolen from Sun (which I also supported at one time) and the fqct the whole point of Android is to log your activity, collect data, and use it to better serve ads and provide data to marketing firms.
I think I've been pretty clear I'm largely ignorant of IT issues. I just like to open my computer in the morning and shut it down in the evening without hassle. As far as what goes on inside it during the day, I have no clue.
Security seems to be a huge issue with other platforms. I like that I don't have malware or virus issues on the Mac. Why is it other platforms are so much more vulnerable and don't seem to be gaining on the issue? I like no longer getting a message I need to update my software for a new security patch for a program which seemed like a regular occurrence when I was on an MS-based system.
Quote from: custosnox on August 25, 2011, 08:34:53 AM
I was referring more to the Android part of the market.
Google has yet to make a profit on Android.
Android is a freeware buggy slapped together operating system without patent support that phone manufactures like to slap half a$$ed proprietary GUIs and preinstalled bloatware over the top of making the system even more buggy and making upgrades and fixes very difficult to accomplish. This is why Android users lag iPhone users in satisfaction surveys by almost 30 points and why almost half of people with an Android phone plan to buy an iPhone next. Google recently declined to buy a set of patents for $4.5 billion that would have protected Android, likely because they internally already know they have a losing business plan with Android.
Apple grabs 2/3s of all Smart Phone profits world wide, all other makers lost money (Including Moto) or split 1/3. And Google didn't make anything.
http://www.slashgear.com/apple-grabs...fits-29168396/
Almost 2/3s of Smart Phone owners plan to buy an iPhone 5, sight unseen. Including almost half of Android users:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390323,00.asp
Buying Moto's phone business isn't going to fix Android either, they do have some patents, but Moto spun the business off because it's sick and losing money. Google has no experience in the Hardware world, and that would lead most to be very skeptical that Google has any idea of how to fix Moto much less use it to fix Android.
Quote from: swake on August 25, 2011, 09:31:47 AM
Google has yet to make a profit on Android.
Android is a freeware buggy slapped together operating system without patent support that phone manufactures like to slap half a$$ed proprietary GUIs and preinstalled bloatware over the top of making the system even more buggy and making upgrades and fixes very difficult to accomplish. This is why Android users lag iPhone users in satisfaction surveys by almost 30 points and why almost half of people with an Android phone plan to buy an iPhone next. Google recently declined to buy a set of patents for $4.5 billion that would have protected Android, likely because they internally already know they have a losing business plan with Android.
Apple grabs 2/3s of all Smart Phone profits world wide, all other makers lost money (Including Moto) or split 1/3. And Google didn't make anything.
http://www.slashgear.com/apple-grabs...fits-29168396/
Almost 2/3s of Smart Phone owners plan to buy an iPhone 5, sight unseen. Including almost half of Android users:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390323,00.asp
Buying Moto's phone business isn't going to fix Android either, they do have some patents, but Moto spun the business off because it's sick and losing money. Google has no experience in the Hardware world, and that would lead most to be very skeptical that Google has any idea of how to fix Moto much less use it to fix Android.
I switched to Android about 4 months ago when I ran over my iPhone. The only reason I went Android was to experience it. I got the HTC Inspire.
It's been 4 months and I intend to camp out at an Apple store and drink my own urine if necessary to get an iPhone 5 the second it is released. Here are my reasons.
I am a power user, and RDP connections consistantly freeze on all RDP apps on Android.
The scroll is jerky and inaccurate.
Crashes constantly!
You have to download an app so that you can kill some apps.
Sound is better using a Dixie cup and a string!
Speaker function is no more than a joke.
Battery life is bad. Turn on Bluetooth and it is cut in half. Turn on tethering and it does not exist.
Most apps are crap compared to their Apple counterparts (buggy and slow).
Ok, I've vented now. It does have a nice flashlight function though, and I will probably keep it in my desk drawer for that.
Quote from: swake on August 25, 2011, 09:31:47 AM
Google has yet to make a profit on Android.
Android is a freeware buggy slapped together operating system without patent support that phone manufactures like to slap half a$$ed proprietary GUIs and preinstalled bloatware over the top of making the system even more buggy and making upgrades and fixes very difficult to accomplish. This is why Android users lag iPhone users in satisfaction surveys by almost 30 points and why almost half of people with an Android phone plan to buy an iPhone next. Google recently declined to buy a set of patents for $4.5 billion that would have protected Android, likely because they internally already know they have a losing business plan with Android.
Apple grabs 2/3s of all Smart Phone profits world wide, all other makers lost money (Including Moto) or split 1/3. And Google didn't make anything.
http://www.slashgear.com/apple-grabs...fits-29168396/
Almost 2/3s of Smart Phone owners plan to buy an iPhone 5, sight unseen. Including almost half of Android users:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390323,00.asp
Buying Moto’s phone business isn’t going to fix Android either, they do have some patents, but Moto spun the business off because it’s sick and losing money. Google has no experience in the Hardware world, and that would lead most to be very skeptical that Google has any idea of how to fix Moto much less use it to fix Android.
Some patents? How about 17000?
And I'd much rather deal with minimally buggy software so I can have the freedom to install apps that don't have to go through Apple's 18 month vetting process. And to not be tied to that pig known as iTunes
Sent proudly from my AT&T Atrix4G with Tapatalk
Does anyone know of an iP5 release date yet? I've been holding my breath for a few months. I bought a 3 right about the time the 3GS came out a couple of years ago. It's been a great phone, but I've got serious phone envy for my iP4 friends and figured I'd skip a model and go with the 5 when it comes out.
Gaspar, I'll bring plenty of water but you are welcome to drink your own urine if that rocks your boat.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 25, 2011, 09:49:20 AM
Does anyone know of an iP5 release date yet? I've been holding my breath for a few months. I bought a 3 right about the time the 3GS came out a couple of years ago. It's been a great phone, but I've got serious phone envy for my iP4 friends and figured I'd skip a model and go with the 5 when it comes out.
Gaspar, I'll bring plenty of water but you are welcome to drink your own urine if that rocks your boat.
Last I heard was October, but Sprint now has gotten into the game evidently. So Sprint, AT&T and Verizon will have it.
Granted that was what I heard...
And I don't dispute the iPhone is a great phone. I owned one for over a year. Hell, I still have the phone (it's now essentially my iPod LOL). iTunes was the kicker though. After the updates borked my phone twice, and it's very unintuitive interface for managing music, I decided to go with something that actually acted more like an external hard drive or flash drive. And for me, that was an Android phone. Plus, this phone actually allows me to put extra storage on it. AND, if the battery goes bad, I can actually change it and not have to take it somewhere or buy a new phone.
I was the same as most Apple fanboys; I thought Android was buggy and too new. And in the beginning, it was. But I'm not a fanboy of either. I just know that the Android allows me to do things with this phone that Apple would never think of allowing it's users to do. And that's do deep customization. Apple's phones are for the non-technical non-tinkerer. I'm a tinkerer by nature. Sure, you can say the tinkerer can tinker with the iPhone by jailbreaking it. But that very term intones that you have to do something nefarious to tinker. Android for the most part allows you to do that.
Quote from: Hoss on August 25, 2011, 09:50:33 AM
Last I heard was October, but Sprint now has gotten into the game evidently. So Sprint, AT&T and Verizon will have it.
Granted that was what I heard...
That is correct.
Quote from: Hoss on August 25, 2011, 09:46:27 AM
Some patents? How about 17000?
And I'd much rather deal with minimally buggy software so I can have the freedom to install apps that don't have to go through Apple's 18 month vetting process. And to not be tied to that pig known as iTunes
Sent proudly from my AT&T Atrix4G with Tapatalk
Most apps are approved in a couple of days (somewhere around 98-99% are approved) and that process has blocked the malware from Apple devices, unlike some Android devices which now prompt to set up Mcafee before you even give it your google login info.
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 25, 2011, 10:18:49 AM
Most apps are approved in a couple of days (somewhere around 98-99% are approved) and that process has blocked the malware from Apple devices, unlike some Android devices which now prompt to set up Mcafee before you even give it your google login info.
Fanboy.
;D
Like I said, I liked my iPhone. Don't like iTunes. Enough so that I dropped the iPhone.
And just like ANY techie, you decide what you install on your machine. I've not had any problems. The majority of the people I know that have Android phones don't have problems.
Quote from: Hoss on August 25, 2011, 10:35:11 AM
Fanboy.
;D
Like I said, I liked my iPhone. Don't like iTunes. Enough so that I dropped the iPhone.
And just like ANY techie, you decide what you install on your machine. I've not had any problems. The majority of the people I know that have Android phones don't have problems.
iTunes has always worked really well for me. But there's also Winamp if you don't want to use iTunes. iPhones are completely customizable if you Jailbreak it. It's very easy to do.
The majority of people I know with Android phones do have problems, especially with music oddly.
Quote from: Hoss on August 25, 2011, 09:50:33 AM
Apple's phones are for the non-technical non-tinkerer.
And that describes me to a "T".
I just realized, out of 70 or so apps I've got on my iPhone, I hardly use any of them. I rarely use the iPod function since I finally found my Nano again a month or so back. I use Google Maps, Weather Channel, internet browser, the camera, stock ticker, and calendar functions, but rarely anything else. Time to pare them down a little ;)
Quote from: swake on August 25, 2011, 10:46:57 AM
iTunes has always worked really well for me. But there's also Winamp if you don't want to use iTunes. iPhones are completely customizable if you Jailbreak it. It's very easy to do.
The majority of people I know with Android phones do have problems, especially with music oddly.
Problem with Android is there are so many different version of the OS out there and carriers aren't necessarily timely with the updates. GB (Gingerbread, or 2.3.4) solves a lot of that mess. My music app works just fine. Doesn't mean others do as well.
At least when the Android updates the OS, I don't have to go searching my HD for the last backup because iTunes borked it again.
Apple devices are going OTA (over the air) updates this year. As well as full device backups to the internet with web-based interface for restoring and accessing all of the device data.
Quote from: Hoss on August 25, 2011, 11:01:10 AM
Problem with Android is there are so many different version of the OS out there and carriers aren't necessarily timely with the updates. GB (Gingerbread, or 2.3.4) solves a lot of that mess. My music app works just fine. Doesn't mean others do as well.
At least when the Android updates the OS, I don't have to go searching my HD for the last backup because iTunes borked it again.
...and how many OS's are there for iPhone? Hmmmm? ;)
I was pretty angry too when OS 4 bricked my phone, but they made the necessary changes within weeks.
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 25, 2011, 11:03:22 AM
Apple devices are going OTA (over the air) updates this year. As well as full device backups to the internet with web-based interface for restoring and accessing all of the device data.
That's a big plus for Apple then, and something they should have been doing earlier than this. Google backs up Android via the Cloud, and the OTA updates work very well. The last one I did at the end of July took about 10 minutes to download, and another 15 to install. Pretty painless actually.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 25, 2011, 11:04:15 AM
...and how many OS's are there for iPhone? Hmmmm? ;)
I was pretty angry too when OS 4 bricked my phone, but they made the necessary changes within weeks.
Oh, there are several versions of iOS, the same as there are several versions of Android. I always hated updating iOS after the first two botched updates. Android, not so much.
We'll make a techie out of you yet!
On that note, I recently got my wife a tablet - considered ipad2, went with asus transformer ( sort of netbook hybridwith added keyboard option) and couldn't be happier
If I was going to spend money on a pad, at this time I would personally go with the I-pad, since there are still a lot of problems with the android pad.
One of the things I was referring to with the one size fits all mentality is how they lock up their product so you are limited on what you can do with it, unless you "jailbreak" it. It's kind of a "have it this way or no way" kind of thing. Their lack of inspiration in their other products lends itself to it as well. I'm glad to hear they have broadened their horizon with the notebooks. Still afraid to look at the price on them though.
I'm not saying that they are on their way out, but with android slipping ahead of them in the market (despite the whole profit spin thing, android still outsells them right now) it shows that people are hungry for more than what Apple is putting out there. The other shoe I was talking about may well be this whole new product that they are supposed to be introducing soon, and that shoe dropping can be good. Right now the company is could go either way, and Jobs leaving could have no effect on this what-so-ever. Even if they go with a completely new direction, as far as we know, it could have been set in motion before he made this decision. Of course, he could be the key component of the entire thing and it could fall apart when he leaves. I doubt that, but you never know how it's going to go. However, if the company makes too many mistakes and it topples from it's place, I don't see it making a return without another Steve Jobs leading the way.
Quote from: custosnox on August 25, 2011, 01:42:53 PM
If I was going to spend money on a pad, at this time I would personally go with the I-pad, since there are still a lot of problems with the android pad.
One of the things I was referring to with the one size fits all mentality is how they lock up their product so you are limited on what you can do with it, unless you "jailbreak" it. It's kind of a "have it this way or no way" kind of thing. Their lack of inspiration in their other products lends itself to it as well. I'm glad to hear they have broadened their horizon with the notebooks. Still afraid to look at the price on them though.
I'm not saying that they are on their way out, but with android slipping ahead of them in the market (despite the whole profit spin thing, android still outsells them right now) it shows that people are hungry for more than what Apple is putting out there. The other shoe I was talking about may well be this whole new product that they are supposed to be introducing soon, and that shoe dropping can be good. Right now the company is could go either way, and Jobs leaving could have no effect on this what-so-ever. Even if they go with a completely new direction, as far as we know, it could have been set in motion before he made this decision. Of course, he could be the key component of the entire thing and it could fall apart when he leaves. I doubt that, but you never know how it's going to go. However, if the company makes too many mistakes and it topples from it's place, I don't see it making a return without another Steve Jobs leading the way.
Any market advantage Android has is due to a broader scope of competition amongst multiple vendors and service providers within the platform, JMO.
Apple is still the leading manufacturer in smart phones.
iPhone's numbers (pardon the pun) have been impressive considering they were only available with one phone company for the first two or three years, now there are two, and sounds like three with the roll out of iP5.
The appeal of Android is broader as it's available on any network, competition amongst handset manufacturers keeps prices lower, and many people resent limited networks and the whole application/jailbreak issue.
Apple's current model competes with their older models on their in-house operating platform.
Quote from: Conan71 on August 25, 2011, 02:11:09 PM
Any market advantage Android has is due to a broader scope of competition amongst multiple vendors and service providers within the platform, JMO.
Apple is still the leading manufacturer in smart phones.
iPhone's numbers (pardon the pun) have been impressive considering they were only available with one phone company for the first two or three years, now there are two, and sounds like three with the roll out of iP5.
The appeal of Android is broader as it's available on any network, competition amongst handset manufacturers keeps prices lower, and many people resent limited networks and the whole application/jailbreak issue.
Apple's current model competes with their older models on their in-house operating platform.
It's the fact that Android is across several phones that makes the number skew so much. The iPhone will have a jump in sales, and may reclaim the position of highest, once it crosses that network threshold, but I still think it will have to fight for it. Android is a contender, and if Apple doesn't start widening their scope they are going to be having a problem. Coming out with an updated version of what everyone has already is going to start getting old. And the need to jailbreak it in order to really open up its potential is really going to hamper it as time goes by. Add on top of it the fact that the company is really getting petty when it comes to trying to eliminate competition (insert things like photoshopping "evidence" in infringement suits), it's image is becoming tarnished.
Quote from: Hoss on August 25, 2011, 11:06:32 AM
Oh, there are several versions of iOS, the same as there are several versions of Android. I always hated updating iOS after the first two botched updates. Android, not so much.
We'll make a techie out of you yet!
(http://tctechcrunch.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/aa.png?w=620&h=232)
iOS4 (latest version) was 90% adoption rate at the time of this graph. Less than 1% were on the latest version of Android, which was a month old.
Quote from: custosnox on August 25, 2011, 02:29:14 PM
It's the fact that Android is across several phones that makes the number skew so much. The iPhone will have a jump in sales, and may reclaim the position of highest, once it crosses that network threshold, but I still think it will have to fight for it. Android is a contender, and if Apple doesn't start widening their scope they are going to be having a problem. Coming out with an updated version of what everyone has already is going to start getting old. And the need to jailbreak it in order to really open up its potential is really going to hamper it as time goes by. Add on top of it the fact that the company is really getting petty when it comes to trying to eliminate competition (insert things like photoshopping "evidence" in infringement suits), it's image is becoming tarnished.
FAIK, It's actually pretty small percentage of people who cared about jail-breaking it in the first place. I would suspect most of those people simply went to Android when it came out and the vast majority of current iP owners are just like me: the apps available are more than what I need/use and jail-breaking means nothing to me because the primary uses of my phone are: phone, text, camera, information- web browsing, map/GPS, stock ticker, email, and an occasional round of paper toss.
Apple isn't doing anything a lot of other companies do to protect their trademark. Want to see a real trademark nazi? Harley-Davidson.
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 25, 2011, 02:37:23 PM
(http://tctechcrunch.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/aa.png?w=620&h=232)
iOS4 (latest version) was 90% adoption rate at the time of this graph. Less than 1% were on the latest version of Android, which was a month old.
Android updates aren't dependent upon Google as the OS, they depend on the hardware vendor and the carrier involved. Those updates aren't deployed until sufficient testing is done by the vendor and the carrier, which is due to different hardware platforms. Not difficult to get those numbers from Apple when Apple is the only hardware vendor. Those numbers are like comparing apples to oranges.
You guys can put all the pie charts and graphs and figures out there, I will NEVER own another Apple product as long as it's tied to iTunes. I realize you're probably not trying to sway me, but I know MANY fanboys who try to do so. And I have no need for a MacBook either.
And iOS4 was the version that botched the install. Twice.
Don't forget that a big part of why Android sells more is that Google gives it away for free. They still haven't figured out how to make any money. Profit isn't spin, it's the whole reason for the business, and right now Google isn't make any from Android.
The hardware manufacturer being the gatekeeper to software platform updates is a huge issue. There is a disincentive for Samsung, HTC etc to provide updates on existing phones because:
1) It makes them no money, they already have the money. It can only cost them money to work on updates on equipment they have already sold
2) If they can make you buy a new phone to get the update they DO make money
It's also better for the service provider for you to get a new phone and sign a new 2 year contract.
This is all part of why everyone thinks Google bought Moto, in order be in control of hardware and updates they way Apple is and to see if they can generate profits like Apple does from it. It remains to be seen if Google can do hardware or if Google can make money on Android, if not they will likely throw in the towel.
I'm not going to say too much, but I strongly suspect that the Google purchase of Moto Mobility may well have actually have been much more about the B2B cable side of the business and television than protecting Android. Google may or may not be in with Android for the long haul.
Let's see if Microsoft doesn't buy Nokia soon. That's where I see the real competition to Apple probably coming from.
Quote from: swake on August 25, 2011, 03:22:10 PM
Don't forget that a big part of why Android sells more is that Google gives it away for free. They still haven't figured out how to make any money. Profit isn't spin, it's the whole reason for the business, and right now Google isn't make any from Android.
The hardware manufacturer being the gatekeeper to software platform updates is a huge issue. There is a disincentive for Samsung, HTC etc to provide updates on existing phones because:
1) It makes them no money, they already have the money. It can only cost them money to work on updates on equipment they have already sold
2) If they can make you buy a new phone to get the update they DO make money
It's also better for the service provider for you to get a new phone and sign a new 2 year contract.
This is all part of why everyone thinks Google bought Moto, in order be in control of hardware and updates they way Apple is and to see if they can generate profits like Apple does from it. It remains to be seen if Google can do hardware or if Google can make money on Android, if not they will likely throw in the towel.
I'm not going to say too much, but I strongly suspect that the Google purchase of Moto Mobility may well have actually have been much more about the B2B cable side of the business and television than protecting Android. Google may or may not be in with Android for the long haul.
Let's see if Microsoft doesn't buy Nokia soon. That's where I see the real competition to Apple probably coming from.
The reason Google bought Moto is to ease themselves of patent infringement suits which Apple has been on the warpath about. Mainly that, anyway.
Quote from: Hoss on August 25, 2011, 03:25:19 PM
The reason Google bought Moto is to ease themselves of patent infringement suits which Apple has been on the warpath about. Mainly that, anyway.
You might want to look at what Moto Mobility does other than phones and think about what Google might want to do with that.....
Personally, I can see no problems with our android pad, and with the keyboard (all still fits in my wifes purse), it got us to quit laptopping cold turkey
Quote from: jne on August 25, 2011, 03:53:32 PM
Personally, I can see no problems with our android pad, and with the keyboard (all still fits in my wifes purse), it got us to quit laptopping cold turkey
I might have to check into pads next semester, ya know, for "school". I'll look a little deeper on android's, but I will admit that Android has been an unstable base for a phone. While not real bad, mine rarely crashes, but a crash at the wrong time when doing a big research project can be a very, very bad thing. So then it goes from a very minor annoyance to a big issue.
As far as the patent stuff goes, the biggest patent (or copyright as this case is) nazi I've seen is George Lucas, yet I've never seen him manufacture evidence. You know, because this pad has identical proportions to ours... as long as you stretch it this way and that... so it's violates our patent.
Quote from: custosnox on August 25, 2011, 04:27:05 PM
I might have to check into pads next semester, ya know, for "school". I'll look a little deeper on android's, but I will admit that Android has been an unstable base for a phone. While not real bad, mine rarely crashes, but a crash at the wrong time when doing a big research project can be a very, very bad thing. So then it goes from a very minor annoyance to a big issue.
As far as the patent stuff goes, the biggest patent (or copyright as this case is) nazi I've seen is George Lucas, yet I've never seen him manufacture evidence. You know, because this pad has identical proportions to ours... as long as you stretch it this way and that... so it's violates our patent.
My question is this: why are you using a smartphone for doing research on a project? I wouldn't even do that with an iPhone.
And now it appears that Apple likes to 'modify' photos of other devices to fit it's claims of copyright infringement. If this is true, wow...
http://www.droidmatters.com/news/samsung-says-it-has-compiled-27-doctored-pictures-in-apples-complaint/
Quote from: Hoss on August 25, 2011, 05:51:16 PM
My question is this: why are you using a smartphone for doing research on a project? I wouldn't even do that with an iPhone.
I was referring to using a pad. With the somewhat temperamental behavior of the Android OS, I don't think I would want to risk a research project to a pad ran by it.
Quote from: custosnox on August 25, 2011, 07:03:14 PM
I was referring to using a pad. With the somewhat temperamental behavior of the Android OS, I don't think I would want to risk a research project to a pad ran by it.
Good point. But personally? I wouldn't use a pad for research. Probably a netbook or small notebook. And I'd use Windows.
;)
Quote from: swake on August 25, 2011, 03:47:07 PM
You might want to look at what Moto Mobility does other than phones and think about what Google might want to do with that.....
I know exactly what they do outside of phones. But I still say this was a play to alleviate the copyright/patent infringement suits. Especially now since it's come to light that Apple likes to 'tinker' with demonstrative evidence.
Technically images in a PowerPoint presentation put together by apple's legal team looked "about the same size"
Because.. Ya know... Everyone who uses PowerPoint makes sure the images are perfectly proportioned.
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 25, 2011, 10:04:25 PM
Technically images in a PowerPoint presentation put together by apple's legal team looked "about the same size"
Because.. Ya know... Everyone who uses PowerPoint makes sure the images are perfectly proportioned.
But when you're making spurious copyright infringement claims, it would behoove you to get your technical stuff down. Just sayin'...
Here's Google's way of doing business:
August 17th, 2011: Launch new photo social network called "Photovine"
August 18th, 2011: Release Photovine mobile app, but not for Android.
August 26th, 2011: Shut down new photo social network called "Photovine."
I'm starting to think Google's MO is "throw sh-- at the wall and see if it sticks"
Other recent notable steaming failures:
Google Wave
Google Buzz
Google TV
Google Latitude
Honorable Mentions:
Google Music
Orkut
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 26, 2011, 09:32:30 AM
I'm starting to think Google's MO is "throw sh-- at the wall and see if it sticks"
That is precisely their plan. What's wrong with that? It's better than doing the same old sh-- like everybody else.
Quote from: nathanm on August 26, 2011, 09:55:36 AM
That is precisely their plan. What's wrong with that? It's better than doing the same old sh-- like everybody else.
Exactly. That's why Google is where it is.
I'm beginning to think Scott is more of an Apple fanboy than I thought...
;D
Quote from: Hoss on August 26, 2011, 10:04:55 AM
I'm beginning to think Scott is more of an Apple fanboy than I thought...
Once you're at the point of berating Google for trying new things to make Apple look better for having not done anything new in several decades, you are a talking duck. ;)
Looks like we're bringing pocket protectors to a gun fight today.
Mount up. We're taking out the AV club.
Quote from: Townsend on August 26, 2011, 10:38:49 AM
Looks like we're bringing pocket protectors to a gun fight today.
Don't worry, Carlson hooked me up already and I have a call in to Krieger. I may not look it, but I'm loaded for bear.
Quote from: Hoss on August 26, 2011, 10:04:55 AM
Exactly. That's why Google is where it is.
I'm beginning to think Scott is more of an Apple fanboy than I thought...
;D
google is where it is because it takes the things you do on it's websites and devices, sends that to advertisers and sends you back ads based on your past activity.
97% of Google's income comes directly from advertisers and marketing people.
To Apple, the iPhone is a product and you are the customer.
To Google, you are the product and advertisers are the customer.
Keep that straight and you'll go places.
Quote from: Hoss on August 26, 2011, 10:04:55 AM
Exactly. That's why Google is where it is.
I'm beginning to think Scott is more of an Apple fanboy than I thought...
;D
Nope, I'm probably more of a Unix person but OSX and iOS are the best "commercial" versions of Unix out there.
(I put "commercial" in quotes because I think when you can buy an OS for $29, it's basically freeware)
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 26, 2011, 01:04:25 PM
google is where it is because it takes the things you do on it's websites and devices, sends that to advertisers and sends you back ads based on your past activity.
97% of Google's income comes directly from advertisers and marketing people.
To Apple, the iPhone is a product and you are the customer.
To Google, you are the product and advertisers are the customer.
Keep that straight and you'll go places.
They don't treat them like that though. Locking phones to their specifications and only doing something nefarious to the phone unlocks it.
Apples treats their iPhone customers like they're two-year-olds. At least Google gives you the keys.
Quote from: Hoss on August 26, 2011, 01:51:49 PM
They don't treat them like that though. Locking phones to their specifications and only doing something nefarious to the phone unlocks it.
Apples treats their iPhone customers like they're two-year-olds. At least Google gives you the keys.
Yeah, Google gives you the keys to a 1973 ford Maverick. Sure it will run, and run fast, but it will frequently overheat, and always look like a Maverick. With your hot-rod 302 engine, you can beat the pants off most people from the light, but hit a bump and you're going to sh!t a trail of nuts and bolts all over the road.
Apple is elegant, luxurious, fast, and damn near impossible to wreck.
Quote from: Gaspar on August 26, 2011, 02:52:44 PM
Apple is elegant, luxurious, fast, and damn near impossible to wreck.
Unless you hold the steering wheel the wrong way. ;)
Quote from: Gaspar on August 26, 2011, 02:52:44 PM
Yeah, Google gives you the keys to a 1973 ford Maverick. Sure it will run, and run fast, but it will frequently overheat, and always look like a Maverick. With your hot-rod 302 engine, you can beat the pants off most people from the light, but hit a bump and you're going to sh!t a trail of nuts and bolts all over the road.
Apple is elegant, luxurious, fast, and damn near impossible to wreck.
Subjective opinion. I've had my '1973 Maverick' since March and it will do things that Crapple iPhone/iTunes can't (and won't, because of its design). But I'm not here to shill. You have your opinion, I have mine. What good is an 'unwreckable' smartphone if you're locked to a featureset from the 1990s? And crappy apps?
I'll put the speed of my dual-core Atrix up against that Apple any damn day of the week. I have, on my old iPhone. I'm pretty sure my phone won't obsolete itself in 12 months. And I don't have to use that pig, iTunes, to manage music on my phone.
Quote from: nathanm on August 26, 2011, 03:30:22 PM
Unless you hold the steering wheel the wrong way. ;)
Must be talking about the iPhone4 antenna issue.
I guess I'm just frustrated with this horrible piece of horse-squeeze that is the HTC Inspire.
I can't imagine using this OS on a tablet though. I am tethered to my iPad all day long as are most of my co-workers. I can RDP into any of my clients systems and take care of business with minimal effort. Used to be able to do this with my iPhone too. Anytime I try to use my HTC as more than a simple e-mail appliance, I am disappointed.
I'm sure it runs better on a more robust processor.
Quote from: Gaspar on August 26, 2011, 03:44:08 PM
I guess I'm just frustrated with this horrible piece of horse-squeeze that is the HTC Inspire.
I can't imagine using this OS on a tablet though. I am tethered to my iPad all day long as are most of my co-workers. I can RDP into any of my clients systems and take care of business with minimal effort. Used to be able to do this with my iPhone too. Anytime I try to use my HTC as more than a simple e-mail appliance, I am disappointed.
I'm sure it runs better on a more robust processor.
I did a little research and checking around before going out and buying an Android. That's the one thing iPhones have over Android phones. Only one hardware piece to have to worry about or review.
I just felt so constrained by the iPhone AND iTunes. I know you all are sick of me saying it, but iTunes really was the thing that drove me off. And not even really the issue with the botched iOS updates, but the whole media management thing, and the fact that you are required to convert video files into a certain format and they have to be a certain size in order to work.
Plus, I like custom ringtones. Apple didn't make creating your own easy. Android does. They even have a top-rated app to do it with existing media. You don't have to import your mp3 into iTunes, convert it, do some other stuff to it, and then worry about the 30 second length restriction. These are all things I just now thought of. Plus, I like the fact that Android phones tap directly into your Gmail account contact list. And stay synced. Change something on your Android contacts list, and it changes in Gmail. And vice-versa.
I looked at the Inspire. My brother had a Samsung Captivate; he gave it to his wife once he got the Atrix (which he recommended to me and I haven't been disappointed). The Atrix is still one of the top three Android phones as far as power/speed.
I'm done with this thread for now. I realize that there are many Apple fanboys who are going to bash Google. I try not to bash Apple because I've used both and they both have pros and cons.
How many Apple fanboys can say that? Honestly? I know alot of them and maybe 2 have even tried using an Android phone. They usually walk away without a word after I show them the features my phone has.
And admittedly, my limitation is with smart
phones. I haven't used any pads and have no need to. Someone else will need to enter into that debate.
Quote from: sgrizzle on August 26, 2011, 09:32:30 AM
Here's Google's way of doing business:
August 17th, 2011: Launch new photo social network called "Photovine"
August 18th, 2011: Release Photovine mobile app, but not for Android.
August 26th, 2011: Shut down new photo social network called "Photovine."
I'm starting to think Google's MO is "throw sh-- at the wall and see if it sticks"
Other recent notable steaming failures:
Google Wave
Google Buzz
Google TV
Google Latitude
Honorable Mentions:
Google Music
Orkut
Experimentation is good - Wave brought us real time collaborative document editing. I never really checked out buzz, but it probably contributed to some google + development. I use both latitude and music. How's mobile me working for you?
I have all non-rooted android devices. Away we are using a phone as a mobile hotspot and the Asus Transformer to surf on 3g (will be 4g when I upgrade my phone) AND I pay no extra for data then if I was just using my phone. Everything is running beautifully.
I'm no Apple hater, but damn how can anyone deny that this google smile is cool? Shop for better hardware and you'll probably like Android more.
Quote from: jne on August 26, 2011, 08:02:50 PM
Experimentation is good - Wave brought us real time collaborative document editing. I never really checked out buzz, but it probably contributed to some google + development. I use both latitude and music. How's mobile me working for you?
I have all non-rooted android devices. Away we are using a phone as a mobile hotspot and the Asus Transformer to surf on 3g (will be 4g when I upgrade my phone) AND I pay no extra for data then if I was just using my phone. Everything is running beautifully.
I'm no Apple hater, but damn how can anyone deny that this google smile is cool? Shop for better hardware and you'll probably like Android more.
I've got to root my android to use it as a hotspot, who are you using?
Quote from: custosnox on August 26, 2011, 08:32:51 PM
I've got to root my android to use it as a hotspot, who are you using?
Verizon, there is a paid option available, but there are also a few tricks:) And there is always super simple rooting.
Quote from: jne on August 26, 2011, 08:40:38 PM
Verizon, there is a paid option available, but there are also a few tricks:) And there is always super simple rooting.
Wasn't sure if there was a way around that or not. Of course, Verizon doesn't like my credit, so couldn't get it there without upfront cash.
Quote from: Gaspar on August 25, 2011, 08:50:12 AM
Slacker!
Here is a recent picture of Steve Jobs.
http://www.tmz.com/2011/08/26/steve-jobs-apple-photo-resignation-ceo-sick