$4.4T over 10 years? In my very humble opinion, the debate over gigantic cuts in federal spending will probably rival that of Obamacare:
QuoteRepublicans will present this week a 2012 budget proposal that would cut more than $4 trillion from federal spending projected over the next decade and transform the Medicare health program for the elderly, a move that will dramatically reshape the budget debate in Washington.
The budget has been prepared by Rep. Paul Ryan, a Wisconsin Republican and the new chairman of the House Budget Committee, and it represents the most complete attempt so far by Republicans to make good on their promises during the 2010 midterm elections to cut government spending and deficits.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703806304576240751124518520.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_editorsPicks_2
Drudge is reporting $5.8T.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/05/usa-budget-cuts-idUSN0429071020110405
Kudos to Ryan for allowing himself to be point man on the final push to utterly dismantle our social safety net.
Wasn't $4T just about the cost of the Bush tax cuts over ten years?
Quote from: we vs us on April 05, 2011, 07:59:15 AM
Kudos to Ryan for allowing himself to be point man on the final push to utterly dismantle our social safety net.
Wasn't $4T just about the cost of the Bush tax cuts over ten years?
I was thinking that was the amount Obama dropped on us in just 2 years.. :D
Quote from: guido911 on April 05, 2011, 09:45:33 AM
I was thinking that was the amount Obama dropped on us in just 2 years.. :D
Funny how, by going back to the old Clinton tax structure we could wipe out the same amount as if we killed Medicare.
Quote from: we vs us on April 05, 2011, 10:17:56 AM
Funny how, by going back to the old Clinton tax structure we could wipe out the same amount as if we killed Medicare.
What would that result be? People other than yourself picking up the tab? :o
Quote from: guido911 on April 05, 2011, 10:22:43 AM
What would that result be? People other than yourself picking up the tab? :o
I can't speak for we vs us, but I'd pay more under the pre-Bush tax structure. Most everyone would, and that's OK with me.
Of course, Ryan's plan has one enormous gaping hole that turns it into an utter disaster: Medicare. He basically proposes that we expand the least efficient and most wasteful part of Medicare and pretend it will save money. Advantage didn't work. I know it contradicts the right wing ideology, but it's a simple fact that Advantage costs the government more and doesn't result in better care.
For this reason, it's plainly obvious that Ryan's plan is not a serious proposal, no matter how much you or the media or Ryan himself would like it to be.
Quote from: nathanm on April 05, 2011, 10:39:57 AM
Of course, Ryan's plan has one enormous gaping hole that turns it into an utter disaster: Medicare. He basically proposes that we expand the least efficient and most wasteful part of Medicare and pretend it will save money. Advantage didn't work. I know it contradicts the right wing ideology, but it's a simple fact that Advantage costs the government more and doesn't result in better care.
Please source this stuff.
Looks like there is going to be a real chance of a government shutdown soon.
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/153885-cantor-says-white-house-rejects-deal-raising-chances-of-shutdown
Quote from: guido911 on April 05, 2011, 10:41:24 AM
Please source this stuff.
Read what's been written about his plan for Medicare. Read the CBO reports on Advantage. You'll get it.
Quote from: guido911 on April 05, 2011, 10:43:14 AM
Looks like there is going to be a real chance of a government shutdown soon.
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/153885-cantor-says-white-house-rejects-deal-raising-chances-of-shutdown
Because of what Cantor says or are you in on the meetings with Boehner and Obama?
Is Boehner going to have to do what the teaparty says? They'll have to shut'er down instead of work something out?
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/05/135143494/white-house-budget-meeting-underway?ft=1&f=1001&sc=tw&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/05/135143494/white-house-budget-meeting-underway?ft=1&f=1001&sc=tw&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)
Looks like the Republicans can't get it together. Gotta place blame somewhere. Might as well just blame them for it happening like last time.
Where's Newt?
Quote from: Townsend on April 05, 2011, 10:49:05 AM
Because of what Cantor says or are you in on the meetings with Boehner and Obama?
Is Boehner going to have to do what the teaparty says? They'll have to shut'er down instead of work something out?
Fine wise@ss, here's another source.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/obama-administration-moving-forward-with-government-shutdown-plans/2011/04/04/AFodFdfC_blog.html
Now unless you are in on meetings with Obama and Reid, what source do you have that's has differing information? Because from what I read, the House has submitted a one week fix. Have you seen a counteroffer?
And as for your swipe at the tea party, so you think only they are in favor of cutting spending? Way to parrot Schumer, though.
Quote from: guido911 on April 05, 2011, 11:04:38 AM
And as for your swipe at the tea party, so you think only they are in favor of cutting spending? Way to parrot Schumer, though.
How was that a swipe at the teaparty? They've got real power over the GOP apparently.
Go ahead and kill Medicare...instead of taking care of those that can't afford healthcare get preventive care with our taxes we can just pay for their emergency room visits with our insurance premium increases.
Quote from: Townsend on April 05, 2011, 10:58:05 AM
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/05/135143494/white-house-budget-meeting-underway?ft=1&f=1001&sc=tw&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/05/135143494/white-house-budget-meeting-underway?ft=1&f=1001&sc=tw&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)
Looks like the Republicans can't get it together. Gotta place blame somewhere. Might as well just blame them for it happening like last time.
Where's Newt?
Where in your source do you get that the republicans "can't get it together"? As for blame, why don't we wait to there is actually a shut down and people react before you assess one party at fault. Do you have a source how the American people are still of the same mind as they were more than 15 years ago?
Quote from: carltonplace on April 05, 2011, 11:16:38 AM
Go ahead and kill Medicare...instead of taking care of those that can't afford healthcare get preventive care with our taxes we can just pay for their emergency room visits with our insurance premium increases.
How so? I thought Obamacare fixed all of that rising health care costs.
What is so sinful about reigning in massively-expensive entitlement programs? Even Obama has said our debt is unsustainable, yet no one is seriously taking it on until now.
More kabuki - it ain't gonna happen. No real budget is being proposed. Same GOP propaganda they have been offering up for 30 years. Taxpayers have already bailed out the bankers now we must pay for the debt Republicans ran up on our backs at the behest of Corporate America the last thirty years also.
Republicare is ridiculous. The GOP/Teabaggers want to replace Medicare with a voucher system, and turning care over to big insurance companies. Ryan's a goof. GOP/Teabaggers are political naives, have no concept of what a Government shutdown, or worse, a default, will do to US.
Quote from: Teatownclown on April 05, 2011, 11:26:57 AM
More kabuki - it ain't gonna happen. No real budget is being proposed. Same GOP propaganda they have been offering up for 30 years. Taxpayers have already bailed out the bankers now we must pay for the debt Republicans ran up on our backs at the behest of Corporate America the last thirty years also.
Republicare is ridiculous. The GOP/Teabaggers want to replace Medicare with a voucher system, and turning care over to big insurance companies. Ryan's a goof. GOP/Teabaggers are political naives, have no concept of what a Government shutdown, or worse, a default, will do to US.
Thanks aox.
Here is a summary of the House CR (albeit from a right-leaning website).
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/04/05/new-gop-cr-cuts-12-billion-in-one-week/
Welcome, TNF tickler.
http://www.thewashingtoncurrent.com/2011/04/expert-calls-gop-budget-amendment-most.html
A little more truthful and left leaning.
Quote from: guido911 on April 05, 2011, 11:26:39 AM
What is so sinful about reigning in massively-expensive entitlement programs? Even Obama has said our debt is unsustainable, yet no one is seriously taking it on until now.
Nothing is wrong with a serious, non-partisan deep dive into looking at our expenses and our income and coming up with balanced solutions to reign in and eliminate our growing debt with a mix of revenue increases and expenditure decreases. So far that is not happening...all we are seeing is people running to the corners and emptying out the other kids' toy box.
Quote from: carltonplace on April 05, 2011, 11:33:55 AM
Nothing is wrong with a serious, non-partisan deep dive into looking at our expenses and our income and coming up with balanced solutions to reign in and eliminate our growing debt with a mix of revenue increases and expenditure decreases. So far that is not happening...all we are seeing is people running to the corners and emptying out the other kids' toy box.
That's your perception, and mine is of course different. And thanks for not wetting yourself over my little /sarc about Obamacare. But look at my link on the House CR on how the cuts are spread.
A summary of the budget from the WSJ is here.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703806304576242612172357504.html
Quote from: carltonplace on April 05, 2011, 11:33:55 AM
Nothing is wrong with a serious, non-partisan deep dive into looking at our expenses and our income and coming up with balanced solutions to reign in and eliminate our growing debt with a mix of revenue increases and expenditure decreases. So far that is not happening...all we are seeing is people running to the corners and emptying out the other kids' toy box.
That's a damn good point. We are facing a problem which can't be solved with extreme partisan solutions.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 05, 2011, 12:13:03 PM
That's a damn good point. We are facing a problem which can't be solved with extreme partisan solutions.
It just got more partisan.
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/04/05/gop-congressman-pens-letter-asking-reids-resignation
We know that Mr. Reid will not read that letter, so I have taken it upon myself to recompose Rep. Crawford's letter in Cowboy Poetry style.
Mr. Reid,
Many of us wrote last week a-pleading
More Chinese money you're a-needing
We hand delivered the letter-o-the resolution
With the calls of the American people wantin' a solution.
Another six days gone by,
with no bill to fly
and no will to try
before the till runs dry.
Where is your bill, Mr. Reid?
Rollin with the tumble weeds?
We deserve far better
Than havin to write you another gall-darn letter!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/government-shutdown-obama-urges-republicans-democrats-act/story?id=13295407 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/government-shutdown-obama-urges-republicans-democrats-act/story?id=13295407)
QuotePresident Obama on Spending Bill: No Time For Games, Need 'Grown Up' Discussions
http://www.cnn.com/ (http://www.cnn.com/)
QuotePresident Obama says he will keep calling congressional leaders back to the White House until a budget deal is sealed.
Quote from: guido911 on April 05, 2011, 11:41:53 AM
That's your perception, and mine is of course different. And thanks for not wetting yourself over my little /sarc about Obamacare. But look at my link on the House CR on how the cuts are spread.
I read your link, but it doesn't change the fact that Ryan's proposal is not a serious attempt to find a bi-partisan sollution. Seriously? More tax cuts for top earners, changing Medicare to block grants that the states will manage.
Good thing grandma hasn't retired yet, we need her to work until she keels over on the job to pay her own healthcare even though she has paid social security and medicare taxes all of her life.
The US defense spending is 46% of all defense spending in the entire world. Its 22% of our total budget. Everything else: education, transportation, roads, NPR fall into the 18% slice.
Why doesn't this proposal look at ways to increase revenues? Can't we eliminate some subsidies?
(http://www.whitcam.com/research/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/taxesgowhere.jpg)
Quote from: carltonplace on April 05, 2011, 02:11:45 PM
I read your link, but it doesn't change the fact that Ryan's proposal is not a serious attempt to find a bi-partisan sollution. Seriously? More tax cuts for top earners, changing Medicare to block grants that the states will manage.
Good thing grandma hasn't retired yet, we need her to work until she keels over on the job to pay her own healthcare even though she has paid social security and medicare taxes all of her life.
The US defense spending is 46% of all defense spending in the entire world. Its 22% of our total budget. Everything else: education, transportation, roads, NPR fall into the 18% slice.
Why doesn't this proposal look at ways to increase revenues? Can't we eliminate some subsidies?
(http://www.whitcam.com/research/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/taxesgowhere.jpg)
I'm all for cutting subsidies and even reducing military spending. But the fact that this proposal is not "bipartisan" is unimportant (remember how "bipartisan" HCR was) to me. Right now we have no budget and the dems have made no serious plans to tackle the debt/deficit. He!l, we can't get the dems to agree to cutting the deficit by a paltry $61B, which is part of the reason why this shutdown is looming.
Other than eliminating subsidies, how else can we increase revenue? More taxes on just certain people, more tariffs on imports? I will listen.
Let the Bush tax cuts expire
Quote from: Townsend on April 05, 2011, 01:55:22 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/government-shutdown-obama-urges-republicans-democrats-act/story?id=13295407 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/government-shutdown-obama-urges-republicans-democrats-act/story?id=13295407)
There is one spending bill that has been offered. NO alternative has been presented by the Democrats. There is now an open offer on the floor. . .a plea from Rick Crawford. . .please offer and pass
a bill, "the House and Senate can meet in conference to reconcile any differences and then forward the final bill to President Obama."
So, the offer stands. All the Dems need to do is offer and agree to pass a bill. Hell. . . even a bill with extra cash for Cowboy Poetry, and then they can move to conference.
Until the Dems agree to pass the Republican bill or craft one of their own, it's a stalemate. But. . . according to Dem leadership, that's exactly what they want to happen. They want a government shutdown so that President Obama can pretend to go into a telephone booth and turn into HopeyChangeMan.
Well, the problem is that when this worked for Clinton, the public was so wrapped up it tabloid antics that they had no understanding of the situation and Clinton was able to receive full credit. Today we are not asleep. We are watching the drama. We know there is no Dem solution proposed, just an unwillingness to work with Republicans.
Dems sitting around with their arms crossed will accomplish nothing. Get something to the table or leave the table, but don't pretend to care.
This is an example of the ultimate opportunity for President Obama to emerge as a leader, but as you can see we get a very limp politicalized response.
"At a time when the economy is just beginning to grow... the last thing we need is a disruption that's caused by a government shutdown, not to mention all the people who depend on government services," the president said today. "It would be inexcusable for us to not be able to take care of last year's business... simply because of politics."
"What we can't do is have a my way or the highway approach to this problem," the president said. "Nobody gets a 100 percent of what they want. We have met the Republicans more than halfway at this point."The Democrats proposed no bill and refused almost all of the cuts in the Republican solution. They simply said NO, NO, NO. They were invited to present their own solutions, their own spending bill, their own cuts, and refused.
How do you fight that? You can't, this is passive resistance. Harry Ried has chained himself to spending and will not budge.
Quote from: guido911 on April 05, 2011, 02:26:20 PM
He!l, we can't get the dems to agree to cutting the deficit by a paltry $61B, which is part of the reason why this shutdown is looming.
So the republicans are locking this thing up because of $14,210,000,000,000 v $14,149,000,000,000.
That number looks like it could use some tax increases and reduction of tax breaks. Serious cuts in many programs.
NPR won't get it.
Quote from: Gaspar on April 05, 2011, 02:31:38 PM
There is one spending bill that has been offered. NO alternative has been presented by the Democrats. There is now an open offer on the floor. . .a plea from Rick Crawford. . .please offer and pass a bill, "the House and Senate can meet in conference to reconcile any differences and then forward the final bill to President Obama."
So, the offer stands. All the Dems need to do is offer and agree to pass a bill. Hell. . . even a bill with extra cash for Cowboy Poetry, and then they can move to conference.
Until the Dems agree to pass the Republican bill or craft one of their own, it's a stalemate. But. . . according to Dem leadership, that's exactly what they want to happen. They want a government shutdown so that President Obama can pretend to go into a telephone booth and turn into HopeyChangeMan.
Well, the problem is that when this worked for Clinton, the public was so wrapped up it tabloid antics that they had no understanding of the situation and Clinton was able to receive full credit. Today we are not asleep. We are watching the drama. We know there is no Dem solution proposed, just an unwillingness to work with Republicans.
Dems sitting around with their arms crossed will accomplish nothing. Get something to the table or leave the table, but don't pretend to care.
This is an example of the ultimate opportunity for President Obama to emerge as a leader, but as you can see we get a very limp politicalized response.
"At a time when the economy is just beginning to grow... the last thing we need is a disruption that's caused by a government shutdown, not to mention all the people who depend on government services," the president said today. "It would be inexcusable for us to not be able to take care of last year's business... simply because of politics."
"What we can't do is have a my way or the highway approach to this problem," the president said. "Nobody gets a 100 percent of what they want. We have met the Republicans more than halfway at this point."
The Democrats proposed no bill and refused almost all of the cuts in the Republican solution. They simply said NO, NO, NO. They were invited to present their own solutions, their own spending bill, their own cuts, and refused.
How do you fight that? You can't, this is passive resistance. Harry Ried has chained himself to spending and will not budge.
Let's see that link. Is it a real news source or are you quoting a blog again?
Quote from: Townsend on April 05, 2011, 02:39:23 PM
Let's see that link. Is it a real news source or are you quoting a blog again?
That was your link from ABC news above. Or do you just post em like AOX/FOTD/TEATOWN?
Quote from: Gaspar on April 05, 2011, 02:44:08 PM
That was your link from ABC news above. Or do you just post em like AOX/FOTD/TEATOWN?
QuoteObama chided Republicans for not meeting Democrats halfway, pointing to what he described as $73 billion in cuts, and for inserting proposals that he says are based on ideology.
How does that sound that there's been no Dem proposal?
Quote from: carltonplace on April 05, 2011, 02:28:05 PM
Let the Bush tax cuts expire
So raising taxes on me and not on thee is the solution? ;) What do want to do about all the entitlements out there?
Quote from: guido911 on April 05, 2011, 02:52:56 PM
So raising taxes on me and not on thee is the solution? ;) What do want to do about all the entitlements out there?
Anyone on the goverment dole gets a mark on their ID. No liquor or tobacco sales allowed. That'd get almost anyone able to be off of the teat off the teat.
edit: Anyone getting subsidies for HVAC gets a control that only allows for a certain range of cooling or heating depending on the season.
Quote from: Townsend on April 05, 2011, 02:48:35 PM
How does that sound that there's been no Dem proposal?
There has not. Only disorganized rebuttal and counterargument. They have introduced NO measure.
Not sure if we are talking about the CR or next year's budget re: dem proposals, but there is no proposal on the budget according to The Hill:
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/153711-dems-likely-to-offer-budget-alternative-to-ryan-plan
There is an interesting take in this piece on how the dems last year made noise about the repubs not offering alternatives, and they in effect doing the same by not having an alternative budget.
Quote from: Townsend on April 05, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
Anyone on the goverment dole gets a mark on their ID. No liquor or tobacco sales allowed. That'd get almost anyone able to be off of the teat off the teat.
edit: Anyone getting subsidies for HVAC gets a control that only allows for a certain range of cooling or heating depending on the season.
That is actually a really good idea. I struggle to see how with such a huge budget 60 billion has to come out of medicare/social security. On a side note, they should make medicare the secondary insurance instead of primary insurance. They can cut costs without effecting their benefits.
Quote from: Townsend on April 05, 2011, 02:48:35 PM
How does that sound that there's been no Dem proposal?
I believe they haven't introduced a bill but have put together a list of all the cuts by program.
Quote from: CharlieSheen on April 05, 2011, 03:03:58 PM
I believe they haven't introduced a bill but have put together a list of all the cuts by program.
I consider counters and negotiation a range of proposals.
Quote from: Townsend on April 05, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
Anyone on the goverment dole gets a mark on their ID. No liquor or tobacco sales allowed. That'd get almost anyone able to be off of the teat off the teat.
edit: Anyone getting subsidies for HVAC gets a control that only allows for a certain range of cooling or heating depending on the season.
Guido, is this a point we can agree on or am I off on this one?
Edit: Hell, anyone...is there a reason this should not be done?
Quote from: CharlieSheen on April 05, 2011, 03:03:58 PM
I believe they haven't introduced a bill but have put together a list of all the cuts by program.
Marvelous, then all they need to do is pass a bill, any bill and then hammer out the details when the bill goes to conference. If they have a list than they obviously know exactly what cuts they feel need to be made.
LOL! We both know that will not happen.
Quote from: Townsend on April 05, 2011, 03:06:17 PM
Guido, is this a point we can agree on or am I off on this one?
Edit: Hell, anyone...is there a reason this should not be done?
I didn't realize you were being serious. But if you are, my question is why such a policy is not in place already.
Quote from: Townsend on April 05, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
Anyone on the goverment dole gets a mark on their ID. No liquor or tobacco sales allowed. That'd get almost anyone able to be off of the teat off the teat.
edit: Anyone getting subsidies for HVAC gets a control that only allows for a certain range of cooling or heating depending on the season.
This is already done with food stamps (food card), but we live in a free market, and it's easy for mom to go to the store and buy 3 cases of Coke Zero on her food card, then trade it for a 6 pack of MLB or a pack of Marlboros. In fact it has created a whole cottage industry of criminals willing to broker the transactions.
I still like my idea of simply requiring them to put in at least 16 hours of work a week. A few hours a day, licking stamps, answering phones, or flagging traffic.
Quote from: Gaspar on April 05, 2011, 03:22:10 PM
This is already done with food stamps (food card), but we live in a free market, and it's easy for mom to go to the store and buy 3 cases of Coke Zero on her food card, then trade it for a 6 pack of MLB or a pack of Marlboros. In fact it has created a whole cottage industry of criminals willing to broker the transactions.
OK, if caught, removal from some or all programs. Make it strict enough and maybe some of it could work. What could be done to the brokers?
I don't want more people going to jail or kids losing the ability to eat but there has to be some way.
The HVAC should happen and if there is any tampering, they lose it for 2 months in the summer. (that way no one freezes to death.)
Quote from: guido911 on April 05, 2011, 02:52:56 PM
So raising taxes on me and not on thee is the solution? ;) What do want to do about all the entitlements out there?
Bush tax cuts were a cut for me as well.
Entitlements need to be limited, a hand up instead of a hand out. But SS and MC are different...we pay these as deductions to our take home, so they are essentially earned. Granted they were meant to be supplements and not used as the only income/health sollution (but times are hard). Hopefully I will not need to use Medicare in my old age because I have a progressive savings and retirement plan, but you never know what might happen between now and then.
Quote from: carltonplace on April 05, 2011, 03:31:24 PM
Hopefully I will not need to use Medicare in my old age because I have a progressive savings and retirement plan, but you never know what might happen between now and then.
You have to use Medicare. During Bush's first term they made it the primary insurance. You can spend $500k a month on insurance but Medicare picks up the tab first. You can get insurance to pick up the rest though. You will have to find a way to opt out of medicare all together. #Winning
Quote from: Townsend on April 05, 2011, 03:27:09 PM
OK, if caught, removal from some or all programs. Make it strict enough and maybe some of it could work. What could be done to the brokers?
I don't want more people going to jail or kids losing the ability to eat but there has to be some way.
The HVAC should happen and if there is any tampering, they lose it for 2 months in the summer. (that way no one freezes to death.)
It will only work as well as making drugs illegal.
It's not addressing the problem. It's telling them "hey you can go out and get drunk again if you get a job."
As for the HVAC thing, most could care less. You don't even need to tamper with them, just set a glass of ice water on the top of the unit above the thermostat or a glass of hot water and the device will pump out heat or cool to your liking.
The great thing about Americans is that we find creative solutions to problems. . .even those of us who live parasitic lives.
To address the problem, we must make it less comfortable for someone to be on the teet than to work and earn a living. We must encourage people to seek the rewards of independence and realize the American dream rather than voting for a living.
Quote from: Gaspar on April 05, 2011, 03:39:30 PM
It will only work as well as making drugs illegal.
It's not addressing the problem. It's telling them "hey you can go out and get drunk again if you get a job."
As for the HVAC thing, most could care less. You don't even need to tamper with them, just set a glass of ice water on the top of the unit above the thermostat or a glass of hot water and the device will pump out heat or cool to your liking.
The great thing about Americans is that we find creative solutions to problems. . .even those of us who live parasitic lives.
To address the problem, we must make it less comfortable for someone to be on the teet than to work and earn a living. We must encourage people to seek the rewards of independence and realize the American dream rather than voting for a living.
I still think it should be done just to cover bases. Why not? There are rules set in place despite people breaking them. Some will follow the rules. Maybe it would help make some of them uncomfortable. Shoot, just like drugs in the 80's, encourage the kids to tell on their parents.
I don't think that abuse is as wide spread as you make it out to be, I also don't think that abusers are voting as religiously often or as vehemenently liberal as you suggest (if they are voting at all). Most people on these programs are the ones that we would expect; temporarily down and in need of a hand up.
Quote from: carltonplace on April 05, 2011, 03:53:15 PM
I don't think that abuse is as wide spread as you make it out to be, I also don't think that abusers are voting as religiously often or as vehemenently liberal as you suggest (if they are voting at all). Most people on these programs are the ones that we would expect; temporarily down and in need of a hand up.
I wasn't thinking of elections.
I was just thinking "why not save some money?". If it's not something that is worthy of attempt, so be it.
I guess I still have some animosity towards the "where's my house" mentality I heard more than I should've a few years ago.
My foray into conservatism dashed on the rocks below.
Quote from: Townsend on April 05, 2011, 03:49:34 PM
I still think it should be done just to cover bases. Why not? There are rules set in place despite people breaking them. Some will follow the rules. Maybe it would help make some of them uncomfortable. Shoot, just like drugs in the 80's, encourage the kids to tell on their parents.
Hey, I'm all for it, but any penalty associated with it will be gutted because you will get the myriad of poverty pimps screaming:
"This law will only serve to imprison more minorities, and put children out on the streets to starve in the cold." -Jackson, or Sharpton, or both.
Keep in mind that no liberal politician would even propose such a preposterous idea. These are the votes they need to bus in every election. ;)
Quote from: guido911 on April 05, 2011, 11:26:39 AM
What is so sinful about reigning in massively-expensive entitlement programs? Even Obama has said our debt is unsustainable, yet no one is seriously taking it on until now.
The thing you label as "Obamacare" actually has some Medicare fixes in it that should keep costs from rising much once everything goes into effect. Maybe it'll actually work. Ryan's plan has been tried and failed.
Yesterday from President Obama's speech:
“I want a meeting again tomorrow here at the White House.”
“I will invite the same folks that we invited today,” he added. “And if that doesn’t work, we’ll invite them again the day after that. And I will have my entire team available to work through the details of getting a deal done.”
As with all crisis, early this morning, the president hopped in Airforce One and jetted off. He will be spending this morning on the campaign trail in Philadelphia, giving a speech, slapping some hands and enjoying a Cheese Steak sandwich (which Philli Cheese Steak landmark will he eat at? News at 11). Then he jets off to New York to meet with Rev. Al Sharpton and his "Action Network" to shore up support for 2012.
This is beyond remarkable.
LOL! As Jon Stewart put it last night:
"How did we go from 'Yes we can!' to 'Eh. . .whatever!'"
Quote from: Gaspar on April 06, 2011, 09:57:06 AM
LOL! As Jon Stewart put it last night:
"How did we go from 'Yes we can!' to 'Eh. . .whatever!'"
That was a few nights ago :) But yeah, the clips they showed were hilarious. I can't believe they put that video out. "I don't always agree with him, but eh... What are we going to do? Learn some new guys name?" I will vote for Ron Paul if he wins the primary or a Republican that runs without pandering to the base (look what I did to the Muslim's, vote for me) :) Being as that probably won't happen. I will be voting for Obama again.
Quote from: Gaspar on April 06, 2011, 09:49:00 AM
Yesterday from President Obama's speech:
"I want a meeting again tomorrow here at the White House."
"I will invite the same folks that we invited today," he added. "And if that doesn't work, we'll invite them again the day after that. And I will have my entire team available to work through the details of getting a deal done."
As with all crisis, early this morning, the president hopped in Airforce One and jetted off. He will be spending this morning on the campaign trail in Philadelphia, giving a speech, slapping some hands and enjoying a Cheese Steak sandwich (which Philli Cheese Steak landmark will he eat at? News at 11). Then he jets off to New York to meet with Rev. Al Sharpton and his "Action Network" to shore up support for 2012.
This is beyond remarkable.
And you're surprised...why? He's a politician.
Can't be much worse than the 500-some-odd days of 'vacation' that baby Bush took during his admin. And that doesn't count the nearly 500 days at Camp David (because it could be argued that those days were more 'working' days than the others).
Quote from: CharlieSheen on April 06, 2011, 10:10:16 AM
That was a few nights ago :) But yeah, the clips they showed were hilarious. I can't believe they put that video out. "I don't always agree with him, but eh... What are we going to do? Learn some new guys name?" I will vote for Ron Paul if he wins the primary or a Republican that runs without pandering to the base (look what I did to the Muslim's, vote for me) :) Being as that probably won't happen. I will be voting for Obama again.
So we can count you as the "Eh. . .whatever!" vote. . .That's alright, I have several friends who were "Anyone but Bush" voters.
Quote from: Hoss on April 06, 2011, 10:14:40 AM
And you're surprised...why? He's a politician.
Can't be much worse than the 500-some-odd days of 'vacation' that baby Bush took during his admin. And that doesn't count the nearly 500 days at Camp David (because it could be argued that those days were more 'working' days than the others).
Actually it was the Crawford Ranch.
Quote from: Gaspar on April 06, 2011, 10:15:56 AM
Actually it was the Crawford Ranch.
No, the Ranch was about 490 days; he spent another 40 or so in Maine.
Quote from: Hoss on April 06, 2011, 10:19:44 AM
No, the Ranch was about 490 days; he spent another 40 or so in Maine.
Kennebunkport
Honestly guys, POTUS never gets 24 hours off and decisions can be made anywhere in the world. The vacation time issue is a total strawman. Is it just that the press seems to make it look like President Obama is a jet-setting playboy, or does his timing really suck when it comes to vacations and fund-raisers?
Quote from: Conan71 on April 06, 2011, 10:24:06 AM
Honestly guys, POTUS never gets 24 hours off and decisions can be made anywhere in the world. The vacation time issue is a total strawman. Is it just that the press seems to make it look like President Obama is a jet-setting playboy, or does his timing really suck when it comes to vacations and fund-raisers?
You're right. I guess with teleconferencing and the internets, he should be able to work with congress and hammer out an agreement today. I assume he is probably on the line with Reid and Boehner right now fighting for a solution.
Quote from: Gaspar on April 06, 2011, 10:30:43 AM
You're right. I guess with teleconferencing and the internets, he should be able to work with congress and hammer out an agreement today. I assume he is probably on the line with Reid and Boehner right now fighting for a solution.
The mighty Snarf lounges in your snark.
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgS3nS0GLY6Xx7Q8JgNh_jsuwgjM2FW9NE369SLUZeZ9ShEaiH8A)
What good is being connected 24/7/52 (hours/day, days/week, weeks/year) if you can't be where you want to be?
(Clarification of 24/7/52 is so someone like me doesn't assume 24 hours/week, 7 days/month, for an unspecified number of months.)
Let's keep in mind too that RIM developed a special Crackberry for him. I'd have chosen Android over RIM, but oh well...
Quote from: Conan71 on April 06, 2011, 10:24:06 AM
Honestly guys, POTUS never gets 24 hours off and decisions can be made anywhere in the world. The vacation time issue is a total strawman. Is it just that the press seems to make it look like President Obama is a jet-setting playboy, or does his timing really suck when it comes to vacations and fund-raisers?
I said the same thing of all Presidents, especially now in the information (Internet) age when wireless devices can keep you connected practically anywhere. Alot of times, though, some Presidents seemed aloof while on vacation during some key moments. The whole 'now watch this drive' thing is a decent example of this. I'm sure there are some examples of the current President doing it, but I've not seen any yet.
For information, I never count time at Camp David 'vacation', because usually the Pres (current and former) is there with foreign dignitaries shoring up our foreign policy matters, or working on other matters of state.
Quote from: Hoss on April 06, 2011, 03:30:56 PM
I said the same thing of all Presidents, especially now in the information (Internet) age when wireless devices can keep you connected practically anywhere. Alot of times, though, some Presidents seemed aloof while on vacation during some key moments. The whole 'now watch this drive' thing is a decent example of this. I'm sure there are some examples of the current President doing it, but I've not seen any yet.
For information, I never count time at Camp David 'vacation', because usually the Pres (current and former) is there with foreign dignitaries shoring up our foreign policy matters, or working on other matters of state.
He's made some notable gaffes, like leaving the microphone to former President Clinton because he was in a hurry to get to his wife for a social engagement or leaving on what can be construed as lavish trips with large entourages while we go deeper in debt.
Bottom line is, we've always thought of the POTUS as living in a fishbowl, but I don't think we've fully come to appreciate now how "over" covered the President is now with so many outlets covering him on the internet, TV, and radio as well as so many partisan commentators with large followings. Every single move is now on film it seems.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 06, 2011, 03:40:46 PM
He's made some notable gaffes, like leaving the microphone to former President Clinton because he was in a hurry to get to his wife for a social engagement or leaving on what can be construed as lavish trips with large entourages while we go deeper in debt.
Bottom line is, we've always thought of the POTUS as living in a fishbowl, but I don't think we've fully come to appreciate now how "over" covered the President is now with so many outlets covering him on the internet, TV, and radio as well as so many partisan commentators with large followings. Every single move is now on film it seems.
That's not necessarily true. Last week President Obama was granted some private time to accept his Award for Government Transparency in a closed door meeting.
Quote from: Gaspar on April 06, 2011, 04:29:14 PM
That's not necessarily true. Last week President Obama was granted some private time to accept his Award for Government Transparency in a closed door meeting.
He just wanted to surprise us all with it.
Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string from the top and then you place a set of stairs under the banana. Before long a monkey will go to the stairs and climb toward the banana.
As soon as he touches the stairs, you spray all the other monkeys with cold water. After a while another monkey makes an attempt with same result ... all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it.
Now, put the cold water away.
Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and attempts to climb the stairs. To his shock, all of the other monkeys beat the crap out of him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs he will be assaulted.
Next, remove another of the original five monkeys, replacing it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment... with enthusiasm.
Then, replace a third original monkey with a new one, followed by a fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs he is attacked. Most of the monkeys that are beating him up have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs. Neither do they know why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.
Finally, having replaced all of the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys will have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, none of the monkeys will try to climb the stairway for the banana.
Why, you ask? Because in their minds... that is the way it has always been!
This, my friends, is how Congress operates... and is why, from time to time, all of the monkeys need to be REPLACED AT THE SAME TIME.
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-ryan-deficit-cut-2011-4?utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Clusterstock%20Chart%20Of%20The%20Day&utm_campaign=Clusterstock_COTD_040611
GOP/Teabaggers need more time....they have to find their a$$ with both hands. I get so sick of this crap! The dims are just as much at fault....spineless whimps. :(
I think a complete rework of the tax code and spending needs to be done. There is too much don't spend money unless its on wars. Cut benefits and lower taxes on corporations. There has to be some sort of balance that can be reached. Hell 8% of our money goes just to pay our debt. Thats a lot!
Quote from: Teatownclown on April 07, 2011, 11:47:36 AM
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-ryan-deficit-cut-2011-4?utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Clusterstock%20Chart%20Of%20The%20Day&utm_campaign=Clusterstock_COTD_040611
GOP/Teabaggers need more time....they have to find their a$$ with both hands. I get so sick of this crap! The dims are just as much at fault....spineless whimps. :(
Finally going full FOTD.
Maybe it's time to start heeding the most famous words from President Kennedy's innaugural speech. Not heeding them is what has gotten us into such a quagmire of debt.
Since I can't do anything about this until election time I'm going with this:
They've had an agreement for quite some time and this is for show.
Prove me wrong and I'll buy you a coke.
Quote from: Townsend on April 07, 2011, 02:56:26 PM
Prove me wrong and I'll buy you some coke.
(http://www.findmall.com/addon.php?40,module=embed_images,url=http%3A%2F%2Fi338.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn430%2F3SunsPics%2FChevyChaseModernProblems.jpg)
Quote from: Conan71 on April 08, 2011, 10:29:25 AM
(http://www.findmall.com/addon.php?40,module=embed_images,url=http%3A%2F%2Fi338.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn430%2F3SunsPics%2FChevyChaseModernProblems.jpg)
Wasn't that Voodoo dust?
Demon powder IIRC