GRETA: Governor, last night there was a lot of discussion about the Sputnik Moment the President wants us to have. Do you agree with him? Is this our moment?
PALIN: That was another one of those pancakes moments, when he has so often repeated, the Sputnik Moment, that he would aspire Americans to celebrate, he needs to remember that what happened back then with the former communist USSR and their victory and that race to space, yeah, they won, but they also incured so much debt at the time that it resulted in the inevitable collapse of the Soviet Union so I listen to that Sputnik Moment talk over and over again and I think, no we don't need one of those.
Really?
Well just be thankful she's being placed in the fringes more and more each day.
Her "W-T-F" statement didn't help her faction.
Paging 'Guido the Protector' and waiting for his latest PDS rant.
Actually, though delivered very poorly, she has a common sense point. Her inability to clearly define it is yet another reason she has no hope of ever being president.
Society is not an engineering project. Social engineering has always proven to be a failure. As has every system based on treating a population as less than a dynamic variable. Keynesian economics, socialism, communism, and any other program that attempts to qualify free people as a mass that can be calculated and controlled.
Actually LBJ used almost the exact same comparison as President Obama, when campaigning for Medicare "If you do that for space and send a man to the moon, why can't we do something for grandma with Medicare?" and with this we passed the Medicare act, and his poverty programs, none of which have turned out well.
The wave of innovation after Apollo was due to the fact that we had an absolute booming economy. It took the mask of the space race because after Neil Armstrong set foot on the moon national pride was at an all time high, and every product on the market wanted a piece of that marketing. Garbage bags advertised "space-age" materials. Cars, hats, shoes, carpet, dishwashers, and dog leashes all attributed their very existence to the "space-age". Sure we learned some things, but the marketing was fantastic, and continues today.
I think Palin did a poor job of delivering an obvious flaw in the current administration's view of society. It is not the role of the government to engineer the economy. To draw comparison to Sputnik or Apollo, and say "this is how we solve things" is beyond flawed.
The very idea that he recycled this analogy, and his previous allusions to the "Manhattan Project" as models for solving social problems is slightly disturbing. The idea of some government group in a research facility determining my future is creepy.
Quote from: Hoss on January 28, 2011, 01:59:38 PM
Paging 'Guido the Protector' and waiting for his latest PDS rant.
There's only so much support you can give a bad cause before you look looney tunes yourself.
Quote from: Gaspar on January 28, 2011, 02:24:51 PM
Her inability to clearly define it is yet another reason she has no hope of ever being president.
She could be the electable pretty face if she had her equivalent Rumsfeld and Cheney to actually be the ones holding the reins.
Her remarks were nuts. Probably real good stuff for her followers but just, really off target. You weren't on the planet at that time Gas and your analysis is really a stretch. The Sputnik remark was aimed at folks who are learned enough or old enough to know what that was all about. It was a great analogy to the problems we face today. Ironically, Katie Couric shares the same view as Palin. All she could say was that it was a mistake to use the analogy because like many others, she was born after Sputnik was launched and therefore couldn't relate to it. Both of them totally missed the point because they really haven't done much reading about that time.
To take you back to that time, everyone knew that if Russia could put a satellite into space they could do the same with missiles, or at least we thought so at the time. Kennedy campaigned on our failure to keep up with the Russian nuclear threat and this seemed to confirm it. It also was hard for us to fathom since we had been told how unproductive Communism was and how far superior our capitalist system was. Yet, here were these moron Rusky's beating us into space and reaping technological benefit to boot.
I suppose you would rather our country sat back and waited for corporate America to mobilize and meet the threat but Kennedy knew that wouldn't happen and focussed the nation on a goal that we could all agree on. It was exciting. The technological benefits were tremendous and helped to bring us out of a recession that occurred around 1960 with high unemployment. Unfortunately our dalliances with overseas wars dampened the economic and social benefits we derived but like you said, the economy fueled by baby boomers was hard to stop. The aerospace industry blossomed and the country realized that we could indeed outperform a Communist country that had a big head start and even use it as leverage to bolster our economy. Nobody was conservative, liberal, wealthy, poor, republican or democrat when we launched those Redstone rockets into space. We were all Americans, proud as hell and excited to be alive to see it. That's the power of the analogy.
Palin messed up the criticism worse by wrongly alleging that the race to space damaged the Russian economy which robs Reagan supporters of their claim that it was our military build-up that they tried to match that eventually collapsed them.
Quote from: Gaspar on January 28, 2011, 02:24:51 PM
Actually, though delivered very poorly, she has a common sense point. Her inability to clearly define it is yet another reason she has no hope of ever being president.
Society is not an engineering project. Social engineering has always proven to be a failure. As has every system based on treating a population as less than a dynamic variable. Keynesian economics, socialism, communism, and any other program that attempts to qualify free people as a mass that can be calculated and controlled.
Actually LBJ used almost the exact same comparison as President Obama, when campaigning for Medicare "If you do that for space and send a man to the moon, why can't we do something for grandma with Medicare?" and with this we passed the Medicare act, and his poverty programs, none of which have turned out well.
The wave of innovation after Apollo was due to the fact that we had an absolute booming economy. It took the mask of the space race because after Neil Armstrong set foot on the moon national pride was at an all time high, and every product on the market wanted a piece of that marketing. Garbage bags advertised "space-age" materials. Cars, hats, shoes, carpet, dishwashers, and dog leashes all attributed their very existence to the "space-age". Sure we learned some things, but the marketing was fantastic, and continues today.
I think Palin did a poor job of delivering an obvious flaw in the current administration's view of society. It is not the role of the government to engineer the economy. To draw comparison to Sputnik or Apollo, and say "this is how we solve things" is beyond flawed.
The very idea that he recycled this analogy, and his previous allusions to the "Manhattan Project" as models for solving social problems is slightly disturbing. The idea of some government group in a research facility determining my future is creepy.
Yeah, let's just toss the study of things like Economics, Sociology and Statistics, it's just creepy...
Knowledge is bad yall
Quote from: Hoss on January 28, 2011, 01:59:38 PM
Paging 'Guido the Protector' and waiting for his latest PDS rant.
Can somebody check on him? Its been two hours.
Quote from: swake on January 28, 2011, 03:24:21 PM
Yeah, let's just toss the study of things like Economics, Sociology and Statistics, it's just creepy...
Knowledge is bad yall
It's not the study that is creepy it's the concept of centralized planning.
and Watherboy, don't allege that it's necessary to live through history in order to comment on it. I am no expert but I have been a very good student of history through that period.
Quote from: Townsend on January 28, 2011, 01:48:10 PM
Well just be thankful she's being placed in the fringes more and more each day.
Maybe that explains why Bristol moved to Arizona.
Quote from: dbacks fan on January 28, 2011, 03:41:15 PM
Maybe that explains why Bristol moved to Arizona.
I hear she's doing a radio show. I wonder if it will be anything like Howard Stern?
Quote from: Gaspar on January 28, 2011, 03:35:29 PM
It's not the study that is creepy it's the concept of centralized planning.
So the study of history, economics, human behaviors and trends are fine, just so long as we don't make any changes based on what we learn?
Perfect.
An infant has a better thought out plan than you do, if a baby grabs something that's hot, the baby has the sense to not grab that item again. You apparently don't.
Quote from: swake on January 28, 2011, 03:43:14 PM
So the study of history, economics, human behaviors and trends are fine, just so long as we don't make any changes based on what we learn?
Perfect.
An infant has a better thought out plan than you do, if a baby grabs something that's hot, the baby has the sense to not grab that item again. You apparently don't.
Two different subjects:
1. Study
2. Social Engineering
I am commenting on the second not the first.
It's sad that I have to be this clear.
Quote from: Gaspar on January 28, 2011, 03:42:44 PM
I hear she's doing a radio show. I wonder if it will be anything like Howard Stern?
Not even close to Stern. Here is the latest, she hasn't taken the offer yet. The house she bought, she paid $172k cash.
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Will-Bristol-Palin-join-Arizonas-Mix-969-114574989.html (http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Will-Bristol-Palin-join-Arizonas-Mix-969-114574989.html)
Quote from: Gaspar on January 28, 2011, 03:45:21 PM
Two different subjects:
1. Study
2. Social Engineering
I am commenting on the second not the first.
It's sad that I have to be this clear.
Obama said anything about social engineering? Economic policy is social engineering?
So I'm guessing that in your world we should have just let the banking system collapse like we did under Hoover. We should have just grabbed that hot pot again because it seems like social engineering to you and is "creepy".
Brilliant.
Go play the stock market some more, okay Gasp?
Quote from: dbacks fan on January 28, 2011, 03:49:54 PM
Not even close to Stern. Here is the latest, she hasn't taken the offer yet. The house she bought, she paid $172k cash.
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Will-Bristol-Palin-join-Arizonas-Mix-969-114574989.html (http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Will-Bristol-Palin-join-Arizonas-Mix-969-114574989.html)
Wrong Palin
Quote from: swake on January 28, 2011, 03:56:41 PM
Wrong Palin
Check my comments on the first page and you will see how it led to that.
Quote from: dbacks fan on January 28, 2011, 03:49:54 PM
Not even close to Stern. Here is the latest, she hasn't taken the offer yet. The house she bought, she paid $172k cash.
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Will-Bristol-Palin-join-Arizonas-Mix-969-114574989.html (http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Will-Bristol-Palin-join-Arizonas-Mix-969-114574989.html)
Sounds like more of a DJ thing. Good for her. Perhaps she can secure the border while she's down there.
Quote from: swake on January 28, 2011, 03:55:42 PM
Go play the stock market some more, okay Gasp?
I am. ;)
I thought the Sputnik reference was also spot on.
It wasn't just to spend money trying to fly somebody up real high; it was a signal to American kids to try hard at math and science.
Every parent in the 60s wanted their child to work for NASA and to be an astronaut. As children we worked hard to learn as much as we could. We were in a race and the way to win was to study and work hard. America had a job for the best and the brightest.
Now parents just want is their kids to be the fastest and the biggest so they can succeed at sports. It is completely different.
"We need to teach our kids that it's not just the winner of the Super Bowl who deserves to be celebrated, but the winner of the science fair."
President Barack Obama
I'm beginning to wonder if part of Sarah Palin's appeal comes from these word salad pieces that are without any coherent structure or apparent logic, yet hit all the right buzz words and provide a kind of verbal Rorschach test for her fans. They find precisely that which they most want to find in her words.
That is beside the point, however, since the focus on that 'sputnik moment' is more about rising to a challenge and having the determination to overcome and excel. Sputnik really did produce a reaction that pushed science in our schools and universities. Many of our technological achievements came about due to the space race. Our rockets didn't have the lift capability of the Soviet's, so we had to reduce weight and bulk.
It's disturbing to see the active distrust and dismissal of the sciences among some factions within our country. We still face enormous challenges. Our transportation is dependent on non-renewable fossil fuels, and we'll need something to replace them. Our food supply is likewise dependent on those fossil fuels, not only for transport, but for the fertilizers that increase yields. We need to develop new antibiotics as diseases evolve. It's an endless chess game, where each move forces a counter-move. The challenges will never stop, but is our will to overcome them just as relentless?
Here's something just freaking hilarious for you Palin bashers:
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/01/28/tracy-morgan-calls-palin-good-masturbation-material-network-apologizes/?intcmp=prn_baynote-js_Tracy_Morgan_Calls_Sarah_Palin_Good_Masturbation_Material_Network_Apologizes
Quote from: guido911 on January 28, 2011, 05:36:46 PM
Here's something just freaking hilarious for you Palin bashers:
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/01/28/tracy-morgan-calls-palin-good-masturbation-material-network-apologizes/?intcmp=prn_baynote-js_Tracy_Morgan_Calls_Sarah_Palin_Good_Masturbation_Material_Network_Apologizes
Nice job here Guid, you can't defend her idiotic statement so you point over there at something else.
Quote from: swake on January 28, 2011, 06:00:17 PM
Nice job here Guid, you can't defend her idiotic statement so you point over there at something else.
I didn't think it was idiotic, in fact I agreed with her assessment. I also laughed my a$$ off with the "W-T-F" comment. Here is a take that I agree with as well.
http://bigpeace.com/pschweizer/2011/01/28/sarah-palin-schools-the-washington-post-on-history/
Now to this thread. Please please tell me what the left's obsession is with Private Citizen Palin. Are they afraid of her? Is it because she doesn't kiss Obama's backside? Is there any other public/private figure in this country who is critiqued/attacked as much and viciously as Palin? Sheesh, she posts something on Facebook and the left gets its panties all wadded up. It's freakin hilarious to watch.
One other thing. Right now the middle east is on the brink of total chaos, unemployment claims in this country rose dramatically last week, our government that pushed HCR is handing out waivers left and right, our nation's deficits are skyrocketing, we are at war in Afghanistan (despite
Obama's idiotic statement that combat operations there have ended), and on and on. Perhaps talking about Palin is your way of not dealing with what really is important.
Quote from: guido911 on January 28, 2011, 06:58:33 PM
Is there any other public/private figure in this country who is critiqued/attacked as much and viciously as Palin?
Hillary Clinton?
Quote from: RecycleMichael on January 28, 2011, 07:12:21 PM
Hillary Clinton?
You are kidding; right? I don't recall Hillary being blamed for the Tucson shootings. Also, the attacks by the left are not limited to Sarah Palin. Her kids have been attacked, her husband recently accused of having an affair, Bristol was just chased out of a speaking gig at Wash U, Trig is apparently not her son, and she had a reporter/stalker move in next door to her home and family.
Quote from: Gaspar on January 28, 2011, 03:35:29 PM
It's not the study that is creepy it's the concept of centralized planning.
and Watherboy, don't allege that it's necessary to live through history in order to comment on it. I am no expert but I have been a very good student of history through that period.
I made the remark that his analogy was targeted towards those who were around during the time or well informed about that time. Your remarks indicate that you are neither. No doubt you're a smart guy, but I'm betting your remarks are likely from a marketing class in the 90's and just a tad bit incomplete. I just tried to fill in some background.
And if there is no benefit from having lived through a period of time and reporting the firsthand memories, then what is the use of novels and historians? Why interview WWII vets when real history is apparently already figured out long ago?
The economy was booming after Apollo? I guess you mean the whole Apollo series. Yes, but to discount the space race as a key element is not accurate. There was a tremendous positive social and economic effect from the huge investment we made in NASA and the space race. It was reflected in style, art, entertainment, schooling, economics, engineering, science and a lot more. Once we cut funding due to another business cycle it came back to haunt us. I knew engineers who graduated in 1973 in a recession market who drove cabs and waited tables instead of the NASA jobs they had planned for.
Quote from: guido911 on January 28, 2011, 06:58:33 PM
Please please tell me what the left's obsession is with Private Citizen Palin. Are they afraid of her?
The fascination, Guido, is much like watching a similar train wreck, Anna Nicole Smith. It's fascinating in a bad horror movie sense. We keep hoping it will get better, but it never does. For my part, there's a mystery in why she's regarded as being possible presidential fodder when it's so obvious that she's not prepared, not qualified, and out of her depth even in the shallow end of the pool.
We simply cannot understand the adulation from her fans. It really seems their judgment and critical reasoning are impaired when the subject is Citizen Palin. That is simply incomprehensible.
Quote from: Ed W on January 28, 2011, 08:07:37 PM
The fascination, Guido, is much like watching a similar train wreck, Anna Nicole Smith. It's fascinating in a bad horror movie sense. We keep hoping it will get better, but it never does.
Come on Ed. You (and Swake & RM) are three of the more reasonable debate adversaries I have in this forum. But do you really expect me to believe you hope she will get "better" as in a horror movie? If she is that bad, just ignore her.
As for Palin being qualified to be president? Is she a natural-born U.S. citizen, over the age of 35, and has lived in this country for more than 14 consecutive years? If so, she is qualified. Period. I am unaware of any other qualifications necessary for president. Are there any? Just as a note, I do not think she will be on any presidential ticket again. I think she really enjoys pissing folks like you off. As for being "prepared": How was she less prepared than Obama?
In this vein, what exactly in Obama's background indicated to you that he was "prepared" to be president? Was he a captain of industry, or a governor, or occupied any other position of leadership? No. He was a community organizer, state senator, and U.S. Senator for way less than 1 term. My resume, and perhaps yours, is far more impressive than Obama's.
Chris Christie nailed this point:
Finally, let's talk about your "train wreck" comment. Palin has millions of followers on Facebook, sold millions of books, sells out venues where she speaks, raises millions for Republican causes and candidates, and is perhaps the most polarizing and galvanizing political figure out there today. Seriously, she says "death panels" (whether you believe they will exist or not)
twice, and legislation is either rewritten or deleted and Obama has to tamp down the phrase in a speech. Calling her a "train wreck" a la
Anna Nicole Smith or having "comics" say they would like to rub one out looking at her image is nothing more than an attempt to marginalize, objectify, or otherwise denigrate and dehumanize a former
female vice presidential candidate.
If you want to look at a "train wreck", turn your attention to that gaffe machine Joe Biden.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on January 28, 2011, 07:12:21 PM
Hillary Clinton?
I am not a Hillary Clinton fan. Any fact based criticism is OK by me. Made-up stuff is not acceptable for anyone.
Quote from: guido911 on January 28, 2011, 09:17:54 PM
If you want to look at a "train wreck", turn your attention to that gaffe machine Joe Biden.
Tell me about it.
I'll give you this, Guido. You're good at the misdirection bits. But the subject was Ms. Palin, not Obama or Biden. Also, having thousands of followers on Facebook or Twitter doesn't mean her ideas are worthwhile. There was a time when nearly everyone believed the Earth was flat. Was that true because the majority believed it?
As for being pissed off about Palin, you couldn't be more wrong. I don't get angry about the likes of her. Instead, I just find her and her followers very puzzling. You say she's qualified to be President by reason of her birth here, but those standards apply equally to almost all of us. Further, that means each of us is qualified to be President as well.
And, that, as we're both aware, is hooey.
Our President should be the smartest guy in the room, not the most affable, or the one we'd most like have a beer with on a hot afternoon.
Quote from: guido911 on January 28, 2011, 06:58:33 PM
I didn't think it was idiotic, in fact I agreed with her assessment. I also laughed my a$$ off with the "W-T-F" comment. Here is a take that I agree with as well.
http://bigpeace.com/pschweizer/2011/01/28/sarah-palin-schools-the-washington-post-on-history/
Now to this thread. Please please tell me what the left's obsession is with Private Citizen Palin. Are they afraid of her? Is it because she doesn't kiss Obama's backside? Is there any other public/private figure in this country who is critiqued/attacked as much and viciously as Palin? Sheesh, she posts something on Facebook and the left gets its panties all wadded up. It's freakin hilarious to watch.
One other thing. Right now the middle east is on the brink of total chaos, unemployment claims in this country rose dramatically last week, our government that pushed HCR is handing out waivers left and right, our nation's deficits are skyrocketing, we are at war in Afghanistan (despite Obama's idiotic statement that combat operations there have ended), and on and on. Perhaps talking about Palin is your way of not dealing with what really is important.
So you agree with her statement that debt incurred by the Soviets in order to launch Sputnik in 1957 led to the collapse of the USSR in 1989?
No you don't.
Watch this quote on YouTube, it's much worse than reading it.
Quote from: swake on January 28, 2011, 10:21:05 PM
So you agree with her statement that debt incurred by the Soviets in order to launch Sputnik in 1957 led to the collapse of the USSR in 1989?
No you don't.
Watch this quote on YouTube, it's much worse than reading it.
Did you not read the article I cited? Here is an article about needing a "Sputnik monent" from that well known right wing rag "Newsweek".
http://www.newsweek.com/2007/10/01/the-real-sputnik-story.html
Also, we got Ed's "train wreck" answer as to the left's PDS. What's your reason for your PDS?
Quote from: Ed W on January 28, 2011, 09:55:59 PM
I don't get angry about the likes of her. Instead, I just find her and her followers very puzzling. You say she's qualified to be President by reason of her birth here, but those standards apply equally to almost all of us. Further, that means each of us is qualified to be President as well.
And I find her detractors puzzling for the reasons I already discussed. So we are both puzzled. As for being qualified for president, I was responding to your point. YOU said she wasn't qualified. Okay. How so? I mentioned Obama in this connection to demonstrate apparently what qualifies someone to be president, which you I gather is sufficient.
You are correct about one thing, according to our constitution everyone that meets the above criteria is by law "qualified" to be president. Whether you personally feel she is too dumb to be president is another matter. Even then, though, we have had "dumb" presidents. Heck, we had a married president shove a cigar up an intern's .... in past 15 years and then of course there is Nixon. We will not even get into Harding's issues for obvious reasons.
Quote from: guido911 on January 29, 2011, 01:15:26 PM
And I find her detractors puzzling for the reasons I already discussed. So we are both puzzled. As for being qualified for president, I was responding to your point. YOU said she wasn't qualified. Okay. How so? I mentioned Obama in this connection to demonstrate apparently what qualifies someone to be president, which you I gather is sufficient.
You are correct about one thing, according to our constitution everyone that meets the above criteria is by law "qualified" to be president. Whether you personally feel she is too dumb to be president is another matter. Even then, though, we have had "dumb" presidents. Heck, we had a married president shove a cigar up an intern's .... in past 15 years and then of course there is Nixon. We will not even get into Harding's issues for obvious reasons.
May be the case, but that President was a Rhode's Scholar. Mama Grizzly is no Rhode's Scholar.
;D
Quote from: we vs us on January 28, 2011, 09:41:35 PM
Tell me about it.
SOMEONE may be thinking of changing his avatar.
QuoteWhat do you think of Sarah Palin? Would you consider her for VP?
Love her. Constitution. American citizen. Exercising the right to privacy. Free speech. Haters -- those who don't like Sarah Palin. That's what they are. Sarah Palin: I love you because America gives you the constitutional right to do whatever you want to do as a woman. And people don't think you can do because you're a woman. They try to make a mockery out of you. But you stand up for your rights and stand strong for your rights. And don't let anyone try to cut you down. Not only are they talking about Sarah Palin. They're talking about me.
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/29/newsmaker-interview-jimmy-rent-is-too-damn-high-mcmillan/
Quote from: guido911 on January 29, 2011, 07:48:40 PM
SOMEONE may be thinking of changing his avatar.
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/29/newsmaker-interview-jimmy-rent-is-too-damn-high-mcmillan/
I love this part of the quote:
QuoteThey try to make a mockery out of you
We don't try to make a mockery out of her. She's doing pretty good at that on her own. When she opens her mouth.