The CBD gets a more distinctive moniker:
"People would ask Libby Auld what part of downtown her restaurant is in.
The Blue Dome District?
The East Village?
Brady?
"No," Auld shakes her head. "It's not any of those."
She could say "South Boston," because the address of Elote is 514 S. Boston Ave.
But when they hear "South Boston," or SoBo, most Tulsans think of the small entertainment district at 18th Street and Boston Avenue, several blocks south of downtown.
"We needed a name for this part of Tulsa," Auld says. "You can't make a name for yourself if you don't, well, have a name."
Technically, Auld's restaurant is part of the "Central Business District," sometimes abbreviated as CBD, dominated by high-rise office towers.
It's the part of downtown that people used to mean when they simply referred to "downtown," until Blue Dome and Brady became the focus of redevelopment.
"CBD doesn't have much of a ring to it," Auld complains. "I mean, 'Hey, let's go have dinner in the Central Business District.'
"That's lame."
With the recent formation of an association of business owners and developers, the area needed a better name.
Auld suggested "Deco District."
"The buildings and the architecture, that's what makes this part of downtown unique," she says. "It's what we're known for."
So, Deco District it is.
Except when it isn't.
After years of surveying and documenting the area's historic architecture, city officials expect to have the central part of downtown listed on the National Register of Historic Places, likely by the end of this year.
In the application to the National Park Service, a survey map labels the area "Commercial District No. 2."
But that wouldn't make much of an impression on tourists, so the official designation will be "Oil Capital Historic District."
City officials considered "Deco District," but its historic buildings include several styles of architecture, not just art deco.
"Oil Capital" seemed to capture the district's "story," said Amanda DeCort, a preservation planner for the city.
The Oil Capital district is larger than the Deco District, but both are centered around South Boston Avenue and Main Street, roughly between Third and Seventh streets.
"Hardly anything happened in that part of downtown that didn't have something to do with oil," DeCort said. "Oil is what built that part of downtown."
Whatever the name, the area seems ripe for revitalization. Being on the National Register will make tax credits available for restoration projects.
And Elote already attracts a crowd for lunch and dinner, a significant accomplishment for a part of downtown that usually is deserted after office hours.
Mod's Coffee and Crepes recently opened across the street, and developers have promised big announcements for next year.
"Success breeds success," said Clay Clark of the Fears & Clark Realty Group.
Clark, who is marketing the area for Kanbar Properties, which owns much of the real estate in the Deco District, predicts a transformation over the next few years.
"Things are starting to line up, and when it happens, it's going to seem like it's happening overnight," he says. "A year from now, everybody's going to know about the Deco District."
Meanwhile, city officials expect smaller pockets of downtown to go in the National Register, too, some this year and others in 2011
Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20101129_11_A1_CUTLIN817428
This is the biggest bunch of BS for marketing real estate ever...this was made up and is being propigated by the uninfored lemming media from a few press releases sent out by:
"Clark, who is marketing the area for Kanbar Properties, which owns much of the real estate in the Deco District, predicts a transformation over the next few years"
Quote from: zstyles on November 29, 2010, 10:51:47 AM
This is the biggest bunch of BS for marketing real estate ever...this was made up and is being propigated by the uninfored lemming media from a few press releases sent out by:
"Clark, who is marketing the area for Kanbar Properties, which owns much of the real estate in the Deco District, predicts a transformation over the next few years"
Zstyles, you once again maintain a flawless record of innacuracy. Deco District was the term used by DowntownLive starting in 2007 and by the StreetLife team in 2003.
The only bad part of the story in my book is the mouthful of letters that make up "Oil Capital District" which, unlike Deco, hasn't existed for decades.
Feel free to show your support on Facebook as well:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Support-Tulsas-Deco-District/168766146491705
Quote from: zstyles on November 29, 2010, 10:51:47 AM
This is the biggest bunch of BS for marketing real estate ever...this was made up and is being propigated by the uninfored lemming media from a few press releases sent out by:
"Clark, who is marketing the area for Kanbar Properties, which owns much of the real estate in the Deco District, predicts a transformation over the next few years"
It may very well be in Kanbar's interest to do this, but it also happens to be in the city's interest and in the interest of the existing businesspeople down there. There's a lot of win-win going on here, and one of those great moments when the public and private goods are both served by a single initiative.
If it helps downtown development, then I'm all for it.
But I do wonder why we need so many different 'districts' in what's a one square mile area. Other than the Blue Dome and the Brady, I doubt anybody knows where any of these other districts are. And maybe that will change when some of these so called districts have more than one attraction in them (or in some cases, like the East End, more than zero attractions).
Quote from: TheTed on November 29, 2010, 04:08:01 PM
If it helps downtown development, then I'm all for it.
But I do wonder why we need so many different 'districts' in what's a one square mile area. Other than the Blue Dome and the Brady, I doubt anybody knows where any of these other districts are. And maybe that will change when some of these so called districts have more than one attraction in them (or in some cases, like the East End, more than zero attractions).
Gotta start with a name. That's pretty much the jumping off point for anything more. A name quantifies and is a reference point; if it doesn't have a name it's just another span of uninteresting city blocks with nothing in common.
In the case of the East End, there's just nothing remarkable about it, no one's advanced a good concrete idea of what East End is (and is not). If you think about the Blue Dome, there's a lot more there there, and a concrete identity to it. Same with Brady. Hopefully same with the Deco District.
I think naming -- branding -- is a crucial part of neighborhood identity.
I have been wanting to push that area being called the Deco District. If someone with some more pull than me wants to get the ball rolling in that direction, fine with me. If nobody else had done it, I would have, so you could have griped at me later lol.. We are hoping to get a starter space for the DECOPOLIS Tulsa Art Deco Museum in the area, so all of this is just free advertisement for our efforts imo lol. I also think this can help Tulsa's marketability as a tourist destination. Lets take what we got and run with it, promote it, build it up, add to it, etc. Other cities have done a lot more starting off with a lot less.
"Former Oil Capital District", while more accurate, doesn't quite capture the imagination. Of course, in truth, oil money either built and had a hand in building just about everything in Tulsa that is more than 30 years old.
Why not just call it the "Oil Deco District"
I think the Deco District makes more sense from a marketing standpoint. I know that some of the folks at the Tulsa Preservation commission prefer the "Oil Capital" moniker, but it just doesn't roll off the tongue. The Deco District has the potential to catch on.
This is about marketing, something that Tulsa has failed to do much of for the past several decades. It's hard to sell something named the CBD to outsiders. It's also equally hard to sell people on "Former Oil Capital of the world."
But Deco District...people care about Art Deco architecture, and many people would come to Tulsa if they only knew what treasures we have. Personally, I wouldn't cross the street for the "Oil Capital District." What am I going to find? Halliburton's headquarters?
If you're worried about too many districts in a single area, think about other major cities. How many neighborhoods can you name in San Francisco? Chinatown, Nob Hill, Fisherman's Wharf, Haight Ashbury, the Mission, Russian Hill, the Castro, Union Square, the Tenderloin... Each place has it's distinctive identity, and each celebrates its uniqueness.
And while I understand that not every building in the Deco District is art deco, it doesn't matter. Chicago's "Magnificent Mile" is world famous...and it is only about a half mile in length. They know better than to be sticklers because the "Magnificent 5/8ths of a Mile" may be precise, but it fails as an effective marketing tool. It's more important that people can send a consistent message about a place ("Tulsa has world-class art deco architecture, and you should start your tour downtown." Technicalities are less important: "Many of our buildings were built by oil companies between the years 1920 and 1980. Oh, yeah, and almost all of those companies have been bought out and moved to Houston."
Quote from: PonderInc on November 30, 2010, 03:32:43 PM
It's more important that people can send a consistent message about a place ("Tulsa has world-class art deco architecture, and you should start your tour downtown." Technicalities are less important: "Many of our buildings were built by oil companies between the years 1920 and 1980. Oh, yeah, and almost all of those companies have been bought out and moved to Houston."
While yes many oil companies moved to Houston, and the largest ones have their HQ and major operations there, Tulsa is still an oil city up there with Dallas, Fort Worth, Oklahoma City and Denver. The energy industry employs thousands of Tulsan's from the corporate HQ and research/operations centers of major companies like Williams, ONEOK, Magellan, H&P, Unit, SemGroup, ConocoPhillips in Bartlesville, etc. to the many oilfield services/manufacturing companies with bases in and around Tulsa to the massive Holly refineries along the west bank and even to the excellent petroleum/chemical engineering and energy management programs at TU that provide the industry with new talent. While not the "Oil Capital of the World", oil/natural gas is still very much a significant part of Tulsa and will be for some time. Tulsa is also well-positioned for future growth in the industry.
Zzzzzzz...Oh, sorry, I fell asleep in the Oil Capital District. Somewhere in all that "blah, blah, blah" part. This sort of proves my point about what works and what doesn't work from a marketing standpoint. We don't need an NPR story about the history of oil companies in Tulsa. We need a catchy "hook" that grabs people's interest. Something that you can explain in a sentence when someone asks you where to go in Tulsa.
Quote from: PonderInc on November 30, 2010, 04:01:58 PM
We need a catchy "hook" that grabs people's interest. Something that you can explain in a sentence when someone asks you where to go in Tulsa.
(http://th577.photobucket.com/albums/ss211/avishay/th_facebook-like-button.jpg)
Quote from: PonderInc on November 30, 2010, 04:01:58 PM
We need a catchy "hook" that grabs people's interest. Something that you can explain in a sentence when someone asks you where to go in Tulsa.
Since Grizzle stole the like button
(http://erniepinard.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/easy-button.jpg)
While I appreciate someone trying to do some actual marketing, and I think "Deco District" is a fine name, it's not right for that area. There's only a handful of art deco buildings in that entire area. The rest is a mix of many other styles. It's like renaming my neighborhood (Riverview) Midcentury Village because there's one midcentury building there. That doesn't make much sense, now does it?
If we had a congruous area that contained mostly art deco buildings, I'd be on board with "Deco District". But we don't...
While "Oil Capitol District" is much less sexy, it actually tells you more about the area than "Deco District" does. What would you think if you visited the French Quarter in New Orleans only to find that it looks like Barcelona and is filled with mariachi bands? There's an underlying discord in naming this part of downtown the "Deco District" that will have people (i.e., out-of-towners, newcomers, etc.) scratching their heads when they get there. "Where's the art deco?"
It's like when people visit the Oklahoma Centennial Botanical Gardens... and then discover that there's not actually a garden. They pull up, walk in and leave. But wait, not before they're forced to sign in on the oh-so-official visitors' sheet. Look, a map of what will be!
Anyway, I think we need a little more creativity and a little more truth in naming our districts. Take, for example, some of the names of buildings in the district that are both creative (some get bonus points for their use of ports-manteaux) and honest: Philtower (Phillips+Tower), Philcade (Phillips+Arcade [the building actually had an arcade]), Atlas Life (with a whole Atlas motif throughout). Other places in the area that got creative are Woolaroc (a port-manteau of Woods, Lakes and Rocks), and Philbrook. And what would you think if Swan Lake didn't have a) a lake, b) details of swans on most of the homes and c) actual swans?
Here are some hot-off-the-top-of-my-head ideas. Some are crude (pun intended), and some hearken back to what the place was in its heyday:
- The Baron Quarter
- Tycoon Quarter
- Black Gold District
- Black Gold Quarter
- Old Town
- Boomtown Quarter
- Boomtown District
- Oil Town
- Terra Cotta Quarter
- Magic Empire District
After all, it was black gold that built this terra cotta boomtown.
There is a pretty good chunk of Art Deco to be found in the area, more than most other cities would have in a similar sized area. And some really stellar examples of it too. (and then consider that we tore a good chunk of it down) Then add to that many of the buildings were built in the Deco Era. Deco District in my mind also evokes an era, not just one style but the lifestyle, the music, clothing, cars, etc. the period and context. And too, many buildings had an art deco flair on their insides at one time. Ever seen images of the Marine Grill at the Mayo? And even now the Mayo has added a bit of contemporary deco to its decor thus adding to the Deco District. Ever looked inside the lobby of the Sinclair Building? Deco. As an aside, though its not in the Deco District, the Brady Theater at one time had an Art Deco interior. Then as the moniker catches on, perhaps we will continue to add to it like Miami has done. Most of the art deco they have now is new lol. They took what they had and kept playing it up. Our new downtown bus depot is a great example of "deco echo". could have done small things like adding streetlights that were deco. Benches, signage (which we have done) interiors and window displays with a deco flair, new buildings with a touch of deco here and there, and so on.
One other thing. Sad to say it, but a lot of young people do not know about Tulsa and its "oil capital of the world" moniker. Often when I mention it to people they instantly start to argue and say its Houston lol. I say, NO in the past, not now. And it just goes downhill from there lol.
Then to an ever growing number of people the word "oil" itself caries a negative connotation. Its not something we are used to living here, but I have had people point it out to me. Oil, climate change, hellooo. Oil, sprawling car culture, helloooo. Oil, environmental disaster, is "old energy not new green energy" get over it, the middle east and its problems, etc.. To ever more people around the world oil is old, dirty and a bad word. Not so much here lol, but I have run into that attitude from a number of people. I don't think we should run from it, it was a reality of our history and did a lot of great things for us, just pointing out that little negative undercurrent that does exist.
My opinion is that its a stretch to refer to downtown as "Deco Tulsa". Tulsa is, was and always will be an oil town, an energy town, but not a deco town even though we have lots of deco to crow about.
I am persuaded by DS Jeff that Magic Empire, Oil Capital whatever is okay, but "Deco Tulsa" is contrived. We already exude a champagne image with a beer reality. No use puttin' on airs.
If we want to be really accurate, we could just name the entire downtown the "Surface Parking District..."
Certainly there's been quite a bit of deco lost over the years along with a lot of the oil tycoons. Deco District is a catchy name.
Calling it a misnomer It's sort of like saying that the Blue Dome District should not be called the Blue Dome District because only one building in the district has a Blue Dome on it. Why is the Brady District the Brady District when it's one street name out of several in that area and the Brady Theater is the only building down there bearing the name?
Those of you who don't like "Deco District" it don't have to call it that. From now on I'll simply refer to the Blue Dome as the 2nd & Elgin District or Eliot Nelson/Sager District since that's a far more honest and accurate description.
Quote from: Conan71 on December 01, 2010, 09:45:38 PM
Certainly there's been quite a bit of deco lost over the years along with a lot of the oil tycoons. Deco District is a catchy name.
Calling it a misnomer It's sort of like saying that the Blue Dome District should not be called the Blue Dome District because only one building in the district has a Blue Dome on it. Why is the Brady District the Brady District when it's one street name out of several in that area and the Brady Theater is the only building down there bearing the name?
Those of you who don't like "Deco District" it don't have to call it that. From now on I'll simply refer to the Blue Dome as the 2nd & Elgin District or Eliot Nelson/Sager District since that's a far more honest and accurate description.
Conan, you're missing the point, and your argument doesn't have legs. The Blue Dome is a unique focal point, an identifiable landmark, an icon, that defines the area. There wasn't a name "Blue Dome" before there was actually a building with a blue dome. Similarly, the Brady District isn't named solely because there happens to be a Brady Street, but because of the neighborhood's long association with the Brady name, beginning with the Brady Hotel and the Brady Theater (and the Brady Mansion up the road). Like the blue dome, the Old Lady on Brady serves as an icon for the area and has since it opened in 1909 (though the original name was Convention Hall). In fact, the Brady Hotel was host to important historical events for Oklahoma. In March 1907, the makers of the Oklahoma Constitution held their first meeting after completing the Constitution, and it was here at that time, that Gov. Haskell, Oklahoma's first governor, announced his candidacy. It was also at the Brady Hotel that Gov. Haskell ordered the state capitol moved from Guthrie to Oklahoma City. So, the Brady name has been attached to the neighborhood since at least 1907.
Moving on to the yet-to-be-named district, what is an identifiable landmark or icon? What storied histories are contained within the walls of those beautiful buildings? The story isn't art deco. It's pioneers, big dreams, a boomtown, an oil town, and elegance, design and quality in architecture was an absolute must. Tulsa's pioneers had high hopes for this city, and within 30 years of its founding had turned it into one of the most beautiful, dense, bustling cities in the nation. They had created a veritable Magic Empire.
Art deco is not the one defining feature of the yet-to-be-named district. There
is no one defining feature except mostly older, historic buildings, many of which are 8-10 stories, some of which are 20 to 30 or 40 stories. I took a walk through the area yesterday, and I did find a small, recurring similarity. Regardless of the style of architecture (and trust me, art deco is not the prominent style of the area), most of the buildings incorporate some use of terra cotta. Whether it's ornate and extensive, as is the case with the Mid-Continent (Cosden) Tower, or a simple crest or dentil molding, a lot of the buildings put terra cotta to use in some way.
If I had never been to Tulsa, but had heard of a "Deco District", I'd think that there was an area (however big or small) that had a huge concentration of art deco. I'd believe that if I got off in the middle of that district, I'd be surrounded by mostly, if not all, art deco. This just is not the case. Yes, there are wonderful examples of art deco, but calling it the Deco District, while catchy, is misleading at best. I wish we had an art deco neighborhood, some place we
could call the Deco District. Alas, we don't.
I'm not advocating "Oil Capitol District", but I think "Deco District" is also the wrong choice. Sometimes it's not just Idea A vs. Idea B, but instead, A, B, C, D, E, F, etc. We shouldn't limit ourselves to just two possibilities. So, that being said, why don't we think of some names together?
Quote from: dsjeffries on December 02, 2010, 09:18:26 AM
Moving on to the yet-to-be-named district, what is an identifiable landmark or icon? What storied histories are contained within the walls of those beautiful buildings? The story isn't art deco. It's pioneers, big dreams, a boomtown, an oil town, and elegance, design and quality in architecture was an absolute must. Tulsa's pioneers had high hopes for this city, and within 30 years of its founding had turned it into one of the most beautiful, dense, bustling cities in the nation. They had created a veritable Magic Empire.
Welcome to every city in the United States.
Quote from: dsjeffries on December 02, 2010, 09:18:26 AM
Conan, you're missing the point, and your argument doesn't have legs. The Blue Dome is a unique focal point, an identifiable landmark, an icon, that defines the area. There wasn't a name "Blue Dome" before there was actually a building with a blue dome. Similarly, the Brady District isn't named solely because there happens to be a Brady Street, but because of the neighborhood's long association with the Brady name, beginning with the Brady Hotel and the Brady Theater (and the Brady Mansion up the road). Like the blue dome, the Old Lady on Brady serves as an icon for the area and has since it opened in 1909 (though the original name was Convention Hall). In fact, the Brady Hotel was host to important historical events for Oklahoma. In March 1907, the makers of the Oklahoma Constitution held their first meeting after completing the Constitution, and it was here at that time, that Gov. Haskell, Oklahoma's first governor, announced his candidacy. It was also at the Brady Hotel that Gov. Haskell ordered the state capitol moved from Guthrie to Oklahoma City. So, the Brady name has been attached to the neighborhood since at least 1907.
Moving on to the yet-to-be-named district, what is an identifiable landmark or icon? What storied histories are contained within the walls of those beautiful buildings? The story isn't art deco. It's pioneers, big dreams, a boomtown, an oil town, and elegance, design and quality in architecture was an absolute must. Tulsa's pioneers had high hopes for this city, and within 30 years of its founding had turned it into one of the most beautiful, dense, bustling cities in the nation. They had created a veritable Magic Empire.
Art deco is not the one defining feature of the yet-to-be-named district. There is no one defining feature except mostly older, historic buildings, many of which are 8-10 stories, some of which are 20 to 30 or 40 stories. I took a walk through the area yesterday, and I did find a small, recurring similarity. Regardless of the style of architecture (and trust me, art deco is not the prominent style of the area), most of the buildings incorporate some use of terra cotta. Whether it's ornate and extensive, as is the case with the Mid-Continent (Cosden) Tower, or a simple crest or dentil molding, a lot of the buildings put terra cotta to use in some way.
If I had never been to Tulsa, but had heard of a "Deco District", I'd think that there was an area (however big or small) that had a huge concentration of art deco. I'd believe that if I got off in the middle of that district, I'd be surrounded by mostly, if not all, art deco. This just is not the case. Yes, there are wonderful examples of art deco, but calling it the Deco District, while catchy, is misleading at best. I wish we had an art deco neighborhood, some place we could call the Deco District. Alas, we don't.
I'm not advocating "Oil Capitol District", but I think "Deco District" is also the wrong choice. Sometimes it's not just Idea A vs. Idea B, but instead, A, B, C, D, E, F, etc. We shouldn't limit ourselves to just two possibilities. So, that being said, why don't we think of some names together?
Bit snippy today, are we? ;D
I simply used your original logic of there not being enough quantifiable examples to justify calling a district by a certain name. Your original argument was that there was not a high enough concentration of Art Deco architecture in the Deco District to justify naming it that. It's about the highest concentration you will find in Tulsa or surviving in any other city and there are multiple examples of this iconic Tulsa style within the district. But if we need a single iconic example then why not call it the Philcade or Philtower district?
Certainly oil is the big story in Tulsa's early history and energy remains a driving force in the economy, but we are not near as associated with the Oil Capital image as we were 30 to 40 years ago. The "stories behind the walls" of people who no longer live here (nor are living) are not as easily identifiable nor a draw to a visitor as the architecture which contained the stories. Oil Captial District also isn't as compelling a name as an attraction for food and entertainment. From a pure marketing standpoint (which is what I've basically done my entire professional career of 25 years) Deco District is catchy and has a good ring to it.
That said, it's more important to the merchants and property owners in the district to come up with a name they are comfortable with than it is for us to debate the issue ad nauseum.
Quote from: dsjeffries on December 02, 2010, 09:18:26 AM
Conan, you're missing the point, and your argument doesn't have legs. The Blue Dome is a unique focal point, an identifiable landmark, an icon, that defines the area. There wasn't a name "Blue Dome" before there was actually a building with a blue dome. Similarly, the Brady District isn't named solely because there happens to be a Brady Street, but because of the neighborhood's long association with the Brady name, beginning with the Brady Hotel and the Brady Theater (and the Brady Mansion up the road). Like the blue dome, the Old Lady on Brady serves as an icon for the area and has since it opened in 1909 (though the original name was Convention Hall). In fact, the Brady Hotel was host to important historical events for Oklahoma. In March 1907, the makers of the Oklahoma Constitution held their first meeting after completing the Constitution, and it was here at that time, that Gov. Haskell, Oklahoma's first governor, announced his candidacy. It was also at the Brady Hotel that Gov. Haskell ordered the state capitol moved from Guthrie to Oklahoma City. So, the Brady name has been attached to the neighborhood since at least 1907.
Moving on to the yet-to-be-named district, what is an identifiable landmark or icon? What storied histories are contained within the walls of those beautiful buildings? The story isn't art deco. It's pioneers, big dreams, a boomtown, an oil town, and elegance, design and quality in architecture was an absolute must. Tulsa's pioneers had high hopes for this city, and within 30 years of its founding had turned it into one of the most beautiful, dense, bustling cities in the nation. They had created a veritable Magic Empire.
Art deco is not the one defining feature of the yet-to-be-named district. There is no one defining feature except mostly older, historic buildings, many of which are 8-10 stories, some of which are 20 to 30 or 40 stories. I took a walk through the area yesterday, and I did find a small, recurring similarity. Regardless of the style of architecture (and trust me, art deco is not the prominent style of the area), most of the buildings incorporate some use of terra cotta. Whether it's ornate and extensive, as is the case with the Mid-Continent (Cosden) Tower, or a simple crest or dentil molding, a lot of the buildings put terra cotta to use in some way.
If I had never been to Tulsa, but had heard of a "Deco District", I'd think that there was an area (however big or small) that had a huge concentration of art deco. I'd believe that if I got off in the middle of that district, I'd be surrounded by mostly, if not all, art deco. This just is not the case. Yes, there are wonderful examples of art deco, but calling it the Deco District, while catchy, is misleading at best. I wish we had an art deco neighborhood, some place we could call the Deco District. Alas, we don't.
I'm not advocating "Oil Capitol District", but I think "Deco District" is also the wrong choice. Sometimes it's not just Idea A vs. Idea B, but instead, A, B, C, D, E, F, etc. We shouldn't limit ourselves to just two possibilities. So, that being said, why don't we think of some names together?
Good luck finding cherry trees, or a street called "Cherry" in the Cherry Street area, and while there is a brook in Brookside it's actually called Crow CREEK and it's kinda shoved off to one side and ignored. And where exactly are all those wooded hills in the Woodland Hills area?
Quote from: Floyd on December 02, 2010, 10:13:36 AM
Welcome to every city in the United States.
Please, Floyd, enlighten me. In the 1920s and 30s, Tulsa was the 3rd most densely populated city in the nation, and its population grew faster than any other city in the nation at the time. It was already well-known for its stunning architecture and beauty, and was (at the time) one of the most progressive cities in the nation. Albuquerque, Amarillo, Boise and Paducah can't exactly claim those things.
Back to the point: What are the icons in this yet-to-be-named district? There's much more to it than a smattering of art deco buildings.
Quote from: swake on December 02, 2010, 10:38:23 AM
Good luck finding cherry trees, or a street called "Cherry" in the Cherry Street area, and while there is a brook in Brookside it's actually called Crow CREEK and it's kinda shoved off to one side and ignored. And where exactly are all those wooded hills in the Woodland Hills area?
Cherry Street: The name "Cherry Street" appeared on the plat for the Orcutt Addition, laid out in 1908. In the late 1910s, city street names were standardized and Cherry Street became an extension of 15th Street.
Brookside: Brook (n): a small stream; synonym for 'creek'.
Woodland Hills area: Hmm, what huge icon sits on several blocks at the northeast corner of 71st & Memorial? Perhaps it's the largest mall in the state of Oklahoma.
No one yet has offered a suggestion for the no-name district.
It will name itself I believe. No offense to the fledgling effort to build the Art Deco familiarity that Franklin and others are championing. Its a fine thing but its just not downtown. Yes, Conan, we could market it that way and draw people but the content is just not there. Sort of like products "as seen on TV", they usually are well marketed but just don't work, otherwise Proctor and Gamble or J&J would own them.
Once something really different or having great impact makes itself known in the downtown area, the name will attach itself easily.
Anyone watch the Oklahoma City A-Z on Discover Oklahoma last night? It was really good and creatively made OKC look good without pimping what it is not (which is Tulsa). Have to give them credit. We need that kind of marketing and that kind of enthusiasm for growing where we're planted. PLEASE, NO OKC HATER REPLIES!
Quote from: dsjeffries on December 02, 2010, 10:51:58 AM
No one yet has offered a suggestion for the no-name district.
Deco district.
Quote from: waterboy on December 02, 2010, 11:37:50 AM
It will name itself I believe. No offense to the fledgling effort to build the Art Deco familiarity that Franklin and others are championing. Its a fine thing but its just not downtown. Yes, Conan, we could market it that way and draw people but the content is just not there. Sort of like products "as seen on TV", they usually are well marketed but just don't work, otherwise Proctor and Gamble or J&J would own them.
Once something really different or having great impact makes itself known in the downtown area, the name will attach itself easily.
Agreed.
Quote from: Conan71 on December 02, 2010, 11:41:11 AM
Deco district.
or how about "Jesus Christ"? That way there'd be a reason to call it a "christmas parade" and the business owners could advertise "have a drink on Jesus Christ".
"Where'd you get that cool sweater?" "Jesus Christ"
It works in so many ways.
Quote from: dsjeffries on December 02, 2010, 11:44:33 AM
Conan...
You gotta remember I'm in cahoots with William on this ;)
There's a name: Cahoots
Where are you? I'm in Cahoots.
wicked funny.
Note: I mean the Jesus Christ district. Pretty close to accurate too!
Quote from: Red Arrow on December 02, 2010, 12:38:22 PM
There's a name: Cahoots
Where are you? I'm in Cahoots.
Already been done once. For the love of Jesus Christ, be original!
Quote from: dsjeffries on December 02, 2010, 10:43:04 AM
Please, Floyd, enlighten me. In the 1920s and 30s, Tulsa was the 3rd most densely populated city in the nation, and its population grew faster than any other city in the nation at the time. It was already well-known for its stunning architecture and beauty, and was (at the time) one of the most progressive cities in the nation. Albuquerque, Amarillo, Boise and Paducah can't exactly claim those things.
Back to the point: What are the icons in this yet-to-be-named district? There's much more to it than a smattering of art deco buildings.
First example that came to mind was Wichita. So I googled Wichita. This is what I found.
http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/The-Midwest/Wichita-History.html
QuoteWichita's population steadily increased in the twentieth century, and new forms of wealth and business opportunity emerged. A major oil deposit discovered in Butler County in 1915 earned the nickname "door-step pool" because of its proximity to the city limits. Wichita's first airplane was manufactured the following year, and during the 1920s the city became known as the "Air Capital of America" in recognition of the number of airplane factories located there. By 1929 Wichita produced a quarter of all commercial aircraft in the United States. The aviation industry played an increased role in the city during World War II, and even more so after the establishment of McConnell Air Force Base in 1951. Beech Aircraft Corp. and Learjet Inc. were founded in Wichita, and such heavy-weights as the Boeing Co., Bombardier Inc., Cessna Aircraft Co., and Raytheon Co. established major facilities in the city. The population explosion that grew from the aviation industry attracted other types of companies. Two big names in the fast-food industry—Pizza Hut Inc. and White Castle System Inc.—were both founded in Wichita. By the turn of the century the city was headquarters for the Coleman Co. and Koch Industries Inc.
My point is, you can tell a story about the economic foundations, boom and bust, etc. for every city in the United States. Every city has a unique story, but guess what? No one chooses a restaurant based on it.
Just call it the Deco District and move on with life. Better than CBD.
I just don't get this. Paseo in OKC is based on the remains of a depression era Spanish shopping district that was distinct and period. Their canal is a distinct landmark as well as their river and Murrah Memorial. Which is different from their other downtown buildings. Blue Dome is based on a distinct building among a field of warehouses and empty fields. Brady is based on a distinct building, The Old Lady on Brady, and a period style of building nearby (not Deco).
Downtown is a hodgepodge of styles and periods with the only stand outs being the Mayo, the Philtower the BOK and Churches. All different styles. What happened to Cathedral District? Why not Mayo District? Magic Empire has a historic ring to it too. Original Tulsa District.
Each of those is as meaningful as Deco district.
It shall be the Deco District. I have spoken. Next topic. 8)
Quote from: Hoss on December 02, 2010, 01:25:22 PM
Already been done once. For the love of Jesus Christ, be original!
I must have been asleep that week.
Quote from: waterboy on December 02, 2010, 02:36:09 PM
Downtown is a hodgepodge of styles and periods with the only stand outs being the Mayo, the Philtower the BOK and Churches.
Waterboy, I typically agree with you, but you need to get downtown more often...
Really? These are the only standouts? I think there are many standouts. Not all of them are Art Deco, but people drawn to deco will appreciate all the other gorgeous buildings downtown (like the non-deco Adams Hotel, Philtower, South Boston Bldg, Atlas Life Bldg, etc).
So, what are the Deco buildings downtown?
Boston Ave Church (12th and Boston)
The Pytheon Building (aka Gillete Tyrell - 5th and Boulder)
Philcade (5th and Boston)
ONG Building (7th and Boston)
Public Service of Oklahoma Building (6th and Main)
Southwestern Bell Building (5th and Detroit)
Tulsa Club - (5th and Cincinnati)
Mayo Moter Inn -(5th and Cheyenne)
Warehouse Market (9th and Elgin)
Union Depot (1st and Boston)
Thre are others quite nearby, that any tour would include like the Fire Alarm Building , etc. Downtown could be the place to start, at the Decopolis, of course! First the walking tour of downtown, with a podcast on your ipod. Then you'd embark on your driving tour of homes and other landmarks outside of the IDL...
You're right about that. I shouldn't have said "only" standouts. Its quite true that those are interesting buildings and I love their style. However, the four buildings that seem to stand out to me are the taller buildings or the ones with undeniable character and history. From a marketing standpoint, which I share with Conan, that is what names an area. Two other stand outs are the Arena and the Atlas Building.
Most of my memories from childhood through young adulthood are intertwined with downtown. Until Southland opened in the late 60's it was THE place to be. I remember the Christmas parades as a child standing in front of Crown Drug watching all the downtown shoppers. One time a WWII tank rumbled along the parade! My grandparents lived in old apartments downtown. I rode the bus down 6th street every day to attend high school at a remarkable old building that PSO now occupies and even worked my first job in the Cities building. It spans many years and many time zones of life. Seems a shame to limit its district status to one period of art. I like the idea of promoting its Deco heritage but its personality is more than that. Probably most of those buildings were the result of the oil industry.
Is the old CHS really Deco? It was built circa 1917 and I don't remember much Deco in its interior. Although many buildings used some deco elements because of the time period I never thought of Central that way. Now Rogers is a great example.
Ponder actually left out a number of the smaller deco buildings in downtown like this little gem.
(http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/821/rwweb.jpg)
And Waterboy was right in that during the time they "mixed and matched" a lot. Such that many of the buildings that werent deco per say, did remodel their interiors to have a deco influences. For instance the Mayo as I mentioned earlier.
Mayo Marine Grill
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3572/marinegrillinmayo0.jpg)
And even today the Mayo has some Deco Style thrown in its lobby and restaurant. Others could do similarly.
The lobby of the Sinclair building is another I can think of right off. Then imagine all those shop windows back in the day, in buildings deco or not, with their fashionable deco window displays.
To me I like to think of the Deco District not just being strictly about one particular architectural style, but the time period itself.
Deco District can evoke the times (20s through the 50s), not just one style.
I go back to the MGM Studios "Main Street" that I love visiting. Not all the buildings are strictly art deco, there are a lot of Italianate type buildings thrown in as well. Red tile roofs, streamline gas stations, vintage cars, hollywood movie posters, people dressed up in period costumes, palm trees, jazz music playing, etc. The art deco works best when it is wrapped in the trappings of the era. All of that stuff from the street lights we have now to the Philtower and Atlas Life help compliment and evoke the Deco District. Its all part and parcel with Decos natural context. The time period itself. The name Deco District gives me that feeling.
I really get what others are saying about "Oil Capital District" etc. but ya know, its just not as catchy, it doesnt really paint as lively and "cool" a picture as "Deco District" can and all the stuff that goes along with the time, including the oil booms. Many people dont know the history of Tulsa or have as deep a connection with it as some of us old time natives do. It doesnt resonate like it used to. People still know deco and the cliches of the era, flappers, knickers and zoot suits, gangsters, Empire State Building, Zeppelins, jazz music, vintage b&w Hollywood Movies, etc. Ya catch their attention better imo with the Deco Distict moniker and once you have done that, then fill them in a little bit on Tulsas interesting history.
"Deco District can evoke the times (20s through the 50s), not just one style."
And along those lines, William, Art Deco was a celebration of Tulsa's prosperity from the oil business. I think "Deco District" is visually descriptive of something people would be drawn to. "Magic Empire" really wouldn't evoke any more of a visual image for me than "Oil Capital District". There are names for areas which evoke either a vibe or some sort of visual image. Deep Ellum in Dallas or Power & Light in KC are more vibe names. Times Square or French Quarter reflect a visual image as well as somewhat of a vibe.
To put another of William's points in a more succinct fashion: not that millions will flock here to see our surviving Art Deco style, but some of the other names suggested are too much of an "insider story" to those of us who have been here all along for outsiders to really get. "Deco" is more universally understood.
"Deco" may be more universally understood, but let's use the other districts you posted as examples. What exactly is a "Deep Ellum" or a "Power and Light?" Those terms are a little mystifying for outsiders, too. (Granted, because I have been to KC many times and have family there, I know the story behind "Power and Light", but if you don't have that familial connection, how would you know?)
And look, I'm not advocating for "Oil Capitol District". I think both names are lackluster.
One more thing everyone seems to keep forgetting: this isn't an everything-within-the-IDL district. It's a small area. So let's look at the boundaries of the district, shall we?
(http://www.tulsaworld.com//articleimages/2010/A1downtownmap1129.jpg)
How many of the art deco buildings listed are actually within that defined, 15 block area that constitutes this district?
Boston Ave Church (12th and Boston)
The Pythian Building (aka Gillette-Tyrrell - 5th and Boulder)
Philcade (5th and Boston)
ONG Building (7th and Boston)
Public Service of Oklahoma Building (6th and Main)
Southwestern Bell Building (5th and Detroit)
Tulsa Club - (5th and Cincinnati)
Mayo Moter Inn -(5th and Cheyenne)
Warehouse Market (9th and Elgin)
Union Depot (1st and Boston)
Not even William's building at 211 S. Cheyenne (Building 211 in the DOWNTOWN TULSA INTENSIVE-LEVEL HISTORIC RESOURCES SURVEY conducted by Cathy Ambler and Rosin Preservation, LLC) is included in the area (http://www.tulsapreservationcommission.org/pdf/surveydttulsa.pdf (http://www.tulsapreservationcommission.org/pdf/surveydttulsa.pdf)).
So that leaves four art deco buildings in this 15-block district. Four out of 72 buildings. That's 5.55%. That hardly makes a district art deco.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again now: I like the name Deco District. If we truly had an art deco district, an area filled with art deco buildings, I'd be all for it. This just isn't such a district.
dsjeffries makes a good point. I like the name Deco District but really how accurate is it? I also wish there was a concentrated area of Art Deco but it's spread throughout downtown and adjacent neighborhoods. How many office/business districts have names anyway? It's all downtown to me.
That map is for the legal/historic preservation side of things. When I hear Deco District my mind automatically includes the other deco stuff in the nearby area. The area in the map is still the center, the heart of downtown but when your there, your not going to know the exact legal lines of the historic district, (oh that one across the street you see there, that one doesnt count, nor does the big churchey thing at the end of Boston Ave ;-p ) you just know your in the center of downtown. Oh, and there are at least one or two more deco buildings right on Boston Ave. There is a little one shoved in just south of the Philcade for instance. You might miss it, but its there. Then there is the newer building that has the art deco frieze on it, and what about the one with the Arbys in it? I have not done the research on it to pin down whether its deco or not. But it really has some deco elements for sure. Nelsons Buffeteria, deco imo, the sign is definitely a visible landmark and is surely art deco.
Did you go to the opening gig for the Atlas Life Hotel? They threw in a touch of deco decor, some folks in period costume, a car outside, and voila it made you feel like you had stepped back in time to the... deco era. It felt "Deco District" and it wasnt a deco building (though the bronze atlas on the back wall definitely has a deco feel to it). There will be other events in the Deco District. The DECOPOLIS downtown tours when we make them a reality, won't just focus on deco, but the other great historic buildings like the Mayo, Atlas Life, Philtower, etc. and we are going to have the tour guides be in period costume. Deco Ball will be in the area. Hopefully the Tulsa Art Deco Museum will get its start in the area. There may be some other deco related events in the Deco District as well " stay tuned ;-) ".
You could almost imagine the area being called the "Jazz Age District" lol, but that definitely doesn't trip off the tongue very well.
One can indeed make a good logical argument against Deco District, but if you get in the spirit of the idea, you can see how it could really work. Plus, whats gonna happen is gonna happen, we can help it a long or not. Course I am a bit biased. Heck if I had really had my way, I would take what is called the "East End" I would build block after block of Art Deco buildings and turn that into a Deco District lol. Or zone it to be that way. Take what we have, what we are known for, what is loved and enjoyed, and keep adding to it.
Miami was really really close to tearing down that strip along the beach. It took a lot of convincing to save that little run down strip and the scattered deco buildings here and there. Now that strip and all the deco stuff thats been added up and down the coast is one of the defining characteristics of Miami, its signature. Our deco is very different from theirs and we have the Oil Boom story to go right along with it. And those are good things imo.
Quote from: TheArtist on December 03, 2010, 04:48:01 PM
That map is for the legal/historic preservation side of things. When I hear Deco District my mind automatically includes the other deco stuff in the nearby area. The area in the map is still the center, the heart of downtown but when your there, your not going to know the exact legal lines of the historic district, (oh that one across the street you see there, that one doesnt count, nor does the big churchey thing at the end of Boston Ave ;-p ) you just know your in the center of downtown. Oh, and there are at least one or two more deco buildings right on Boston Ave. There is a little one shoved in just south of the Philcade for instance. You might miss it, but its there. Then there is the newer building that has the art deco frieze on it, and what about the one with the Arbys in it? I have not done the research on it to pin down whether its deco or not. But it really has some deco elements for sure. Nelsons Buffeteria, deco imo, the sign is definitely a visible landmark and is surely art deco.
Nelson's Buffeteria isn't there anymore. Neither is the sign.
Main Mall Plaza (324 S. Main St., contains Arby's) isn't art deco, either.
Again, this district is limited in size, so
no it absolutely doesn't include any of those other buildings. The district isn't
everything within the IDL, it's a small area being promoted by businesses to increase their visibility and give a small area its own identity separate from other areas like Blue Dome, Brady, Cathedral Square, Civic Center, etc. By the very nature of a 'district', it must limited in size.
Defining an area physically and nominally for the purposes of distinction and unique identity, but then saying that the entire downtown is part of it, achieves nothing.
And while the district must be limited in size, it is certainly not limited in architectural style. The area contains dozens of different styles of architecture. Art deco, while near and dear to our hearts, isn't the most dominant style. It's not even the second, third, fourth or fifth most dominant style. Deco buildings represent 5.5%--okay, let's round up to 6%--of the buildings in that area, and no matter how many vintage cars you throw in front of a building for its grand opening, it doesn't make it art deco.
QuoteOne can indeed make a good logical argument against Deco District, but if you get in the spirit of the idea, you can see how it could really work.
I guess I shouldn't let logic and facts get in the way of 'spirit'... How can a
Deco district work without a large collections of art deco buildings? "Well, we really like art deco, so we're just gonna put an old 40s cruiser in front of this gothic revival building and call it 'deco' from now on." Or, "hey look down that road about half a mile--see that? That's deco, right there."
Imagine you're a tourist. You've never been to Tulsa before. You're an art deco buff and heard a part of downtown is called
the Deco District. You hop in your rental car, head to the District, and spot four art deco buildings in a 15-block area.
How would that make you feel? I'd feel duped. Oh sure, if I went out of my way, I could find more art deco in the surrounding areas, but can I walk to it? (and furthermore, how would I know about those outside the "deco" district"?) Being a visitor, I don't really know the way. Is there a collection of buildings close enough together that there's even an air of art deco feel to it?
It's bad enough that most Tulsans (including the news crews) think the Mid-Continent Tower and Philtower are art deco. Let's not go and confuse everyone else and trick out-of-towners into thinking we have a real-life art deco district. We don't. We have a tremendous amount of art deco in Tulsa, but we do
not have anything close to resembling an art deco district. There is simply no high concentration of art deco in that 15-block area. Geographic locality and concentration are kind of important when it comes to these things.
If the purpose of (forcefully) naming the remaining downtown district is to increase its viability as a dining, drinking, entertainment friendly territory, that would be for the more enlightened, professional visitors as I suspect that 3/4 of Tulsans have no idea what a Deco is, why it is important and how much one costs. ::). That means some education costs. Of course I'm sure people visit Deep Ellum without much thought as to what it means as well.
Its not an objectionable or indefensible moniker. I still think the area will name itself as development continues to build and something catches the public's fancy. Did anyone really consciously champion Blue Dome, Brady or East End, Deep Ellum or Bricktown? I don't remember that. I think they just became common vernacular among the early adopters. More importantly, Deco District is a name that can co-exist with other concepts under the larger description of Downtown or whatever.
Why is everyone so up in arms about someone with sweat equity in the area wanting to call it "Deco District" or "Architechtural Diversity District", etc? Are we really becoming such a literalst society or so concerned about our own paradigms that we are convinced we know better what would be a good draw. If you don't like the name or find it inaccurate, put some skin in the game by making an investment in the area and you can call it what you like.
Sheesh, BFD
Quote from: dsjeffries on December 03, 2010, 06:08:57 PM
Nelson's Buffeteria isn't there anymore. Neither is the sign.
Main Mall Plaza (324 S. Main St., contains Arby's) isn't art deco, either.
Again, this district is limited in size, so no it absolutely doesn't include any of those other buildings. The district isn't everything within the IDL, it's a small area being promoted by businesses to increase their visibility and give a small area its own identity separate from other areas like Blue Dome, Brady, Cathedral Square, Civic Center, etc. By the very nature of a 'district', it must limited in size.
Defining an area physically and nominally for the purposes of distinction and unique identity, but then saying that the entire downtown is part of it, achieves nothing.
And while the district must be limited in size, it is certainly not limited in architectural style. The area contains dozens of different styles of architecture. Art deco, while near and dear to our hearts, isn't the most dominant style. It's not even the second, third, fourth or fifth most dominant style. Deco buildings represent 5.5%--okay, let's round up to 6%--of the buildings in that area, and no matter how many vintage cars you throw in front of a building for its grand opening, it doesn't make it art deco.
I guess I shouldn't let logic and facts get in the way of 'spirit'... How can a Deco district work without a large collections of art deco buildings? "Well, we really like art deco, so we're just gonna put an old 40s cruiser in front of this gothic revival building and call it 'deco' from now on." Or, "hey look down that road about half a mile--see that? That's deco, right there."
Imagine you're a tourist. You've never been to Tulsa before. You're an art deco buff and heard a part of downtown is called the Deco District. You hop in your rental car, head to the District, and spot four art deco buildings in a 15-block area.
How would that make you feel? I'd feel duped. Oh sure, if I went out of my way, I could find more art deco in the surrounding areas, but can I walk to it? (and furthermore, how would I know about those outside the "deco" district"?) Being a visitor, I don't really know the way. Is there a collection of buildings close enough together that there's even an air of art deco feel to it?
It's bad enough that most Tulsans (including the news crews) think the Mid-Continent Tower and Philtower are art deco. Let's not go and confuse everyone else and trick out-of-towners into thinking we have a real-life art deco district. We don't. We have a tremendous amount of art deco in Tulsa, but we do not have anything close to resembling an art deco district. There is simply no high concentration of art deco in that 15-block area. Geographic locality and concentration are kind of important when it comes to these things.
I am either not getting across very well what I am trying to say, or your being mean spirited and facetious. The harsh manner of your comments suggests the latter. But, I really do appreciate your passion and your obvious care about Tulsa, and I can see how this conversation would make you a bit angry even. I am likely just coming at things from a different perspective and set of visions. I can "see it" but I obviously can't get you to, and in this discussion, your right,,,, but I am right too lol and if you dont want to see what I am seeing, then there is no way you will.
Quote from: Conan71 on December 03, 2010, 06:31:44 PM
Why is everyone so up in arms about someone with sweat equity in the area wanting to call it "Deco District" or "Architechtural Diversity District", etc? Are we really becoming such a literalst society or so concerned about our own paradigms that we are convinced we know better what would be a good draw. If you don't like the name or find it inaccurate, put some skin in the game by making an investment in the area and you can call it what you like.
Sheesh, BFD
Agreed. I really don't get the attitude in this thread. :o
We have a lot of Art Deco in this town and if that area isn't the Deco District, THEN WHAT IS? ???
It may have already been suggested but could Tulsa make a Deco Trail, something like Boston's Freedom Trail?
Quote from: TheArtist on December 03, 2010, 09:05:55 PM
I am either not getting across very well what I am trying to say, or your being mean spirited and facetious. The harsh manner of your comments suggests the latter. But, I really do appreciate your passion and your obvious care about Tulsa, and I can see how this conversation would make you a bit angry even. I am likely just coming at things from a different perspective and set of visions. I can "see it" but I obviously can't get you to, and in this discussion, your right,,,, but I am right too lol and if you dont want to see what I am seeing, then there is no way you will.
I'm not being mean-spirited at all. I'm simply raising points that should have been raised in early discussions of naming this district. Were any of these questions asked when everyone sat around the table and voted on "Deco District"?
It's not harsh to point out that we don't have the concentration of deco within that area to name it a Deco district. I'm simply asking you to put yourself in the shoes of an outsider, and then to try to think of other options.
It's also not harsh to point out that districts need boundaries, that it's not some fluid thing that sometimes includes other areas at will because they also include art deco.
In every post, I've asked for everyone to try to think of it from another perspective. When you step back from your involvement with it, or from your affinity for art deco, or from being a Tulsan, the name just doesn't fit.
Quote from: AngieBrumley on December 04, 2010, 12:25:00 PM
Agreed. I really don't get the attitude in this thread. :o
We have a lot of Art Deco in this town and if that area isn't the Deco District, THEN WHAT IS? ???
There are four art deco buildings in that entire area. How does that make it the Deco District?
Tulsa does have a ton of art deco, but it's spread out over a large area, not concentrated in this 15-block pocket of downtown.
The title is misleading. Anyone new to Tulsa who went to visit the Deco District would feel completely misled when they found only four art deco buildings in the entire district.