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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => National & International Politics => Topic started by: guido911 on May 26, 2010, 01:56:37 PM

Title: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: guido911 on May 26, 2010, 01:56:37 PM
Over the BP oil spill.

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=XdqGqG2GaG
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Gaspar on May 26, 2010, 02:10:46 PM
Carville's been going after Obama pretty hard lately.  I think it was predictable.  It's the sound of the Hillary Clinton campaign machine firing up.  He still works for them.
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 26, 2010, 10:36:01 PM
Some of the story is starting to come out.  Finally.

Think we will ever learn??


Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: guido911 on May 27, 2010, 01:25:24 PM
"Did you plug the hole yet daddy?"
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Townsend on May 27, 2010, 01:43:42 PM
Quote from: guido911 on May 27, 2010, 01:25:24 PM
"Did you plug the hole yet daddy?"

Sexy
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Gaspar on May 27, 2010, 01:54:40 PM
First press conference in 308 days. 
400+ speeches. 

The Saturday Night Live skit writes itself.

Obama said federal officials specifically ordered the company to drill two holes as part of that effort instead of the single one executives had proposed.

"BP is operating at our direction," Obama said. "Every key decision and action they take must be approved by us in advance," adding that, if the Coast Guard ordered BP to do something, "they are legally bound to do it."

"Our teams are authorized to direct BP, in the same way that they'd be authorized to direct those teams if they were technically being paid by the government."

Obama blamed practices of the previous administration.





No one as of yet has fainted at the press conference.
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Conan71 on May 27, 2010, 02:05:00 PM
I like it, now we find out the government has been firmly in charge of this situation from the git-go.  Since it's such a cluster- love, is anyone surprised?

They must be confident the top-kill is going to work.  If it fails, I would assume it's because BP has been leading during this ordeal, not the Obama Admin.

"The president's direct language on being in charge of the spill response, which he repeated several times, marked a change in emphasis from earlier administration assertions that, while the government was overseeing the operation, BP had the expertise and equipment to make the decisions on how to stop the flow.

As recently as Monday, the top federal official in charge of dealing with the oil catastrophe, Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen, declined to broadly say the federal government was "in charge." Instead, when asked about that, Allen told reporters that BP was responsible for the cleanup and the government was accountable to make sure the company did it. "I would say it's less a case of 'in charge,'" Allen said when asked about that phrase.

Yet with each passing day, public frustration with Obama's administration has grown, and his poll numbers on the matter are dropping.

Claiming control carries its own political risks for Obama, because any failure to stop the gusher will then belong to the president. But he could suffer politically if his administration is seen as falling short of staying on top of the problem or not working hard to find a solution."

http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJhcnJtZXJuBF9TAzk3MTgwMDM0OARnc3RhdGUDMwRwb3MDMgRzZWMDbndfdG9wc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDdGl0bGUEdGFyA25ld3MueWFob28uY29t/SIG=13gictj5v/**http%3A//us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/rss/topstories/*http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100527/ap_on_bi_ge/us_obama

Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: nathanm on May 27, 2010, 03:38:44 PM
Once again, there is nothing Obama can do (other than die or resign) that would make you guys happy. You complain when he "oversees" rather than "orders," then you complain that he's "ordering" rather than "overseeing."

At least now I see why Rove refused to let GWB change his mind on anything, ever, no matter how stupid his original thought/plan was.

Edited to add: And this whole "Obama's Katrina" meme that's been thrown out there for the thousandth time is really stupid. This is quite an environmental disaster, and even a significant economic disaster, but people aren't dying in their attics and on their rooftops while the federal government twiddles its collective thumbs.
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: guido911 on May 27, 2010, 04:28:23 PM
Quote from: nathanm on May 27, 2010, 03:38:44 PM
Once again, there is nothing Obama can can't do (other than die or resign) that would make you guys unhappy.

Right back at ya.  And incidentally, the clip I posted was a rant from a dem; like this one.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37878.html
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Conan71 on May 27, 2010, 04:39:02 PM
Quote from: nathanm on May 27, 2010, 03:38:44 PM
Once again, there is nothing Obama can do (other than die or resign) that would make you guys happy. You complain when he "oversees" rather than "orders," then you complain that he's "ordering" rather than "overseeing."

At least now I see why Rove refused to let GWB change his mind on anything, ever, no matter how stupid his original thought/plan was.

Edited to add: And this whole "Obama's Katrina" meme that's been thrown out there for the thousandth time is really stupid. This is quite an environmental disaster, and even a significant economic disaster, but people aren't dying in their attics and on their rooftops while the federal government twiddles its collective thumbs.

It's obvious the government is bungling this because Obama hates all the white fishermen along the coast... /snark

Honestly tell me that McCain wouldn't have been crucified in the media by now for how poorly this has been handled if it had been on his watch.  The first action out of the administration was to send lawyers to N.O. to figure out who was responsible.  Lawyers can't stop an oil spill.

The economic misery this disaster could have throughout the gulf for many years to come could be far more devastating than Katrina was.  Parish and state level authorities have had to sit on their hands waiting for permits from the government to be able to help protect their wetlands.  How has that been a good handling of the situation, Nathan?

I simply don't get the flip/flop, it's not up to the governement to lead, then we find out they've been leading all along, which one is it?
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Rico on May 27, 2010, 04:40:35 PM
Quote from: guido911 on May 27, 2010, 01:25:24 PM
"Did you plug the hole yet daddy?"

A Rand new kinda Racism....

Bounce Sister Sara on your knee aye daddy!
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: guido911 on May 27, 2010, 04:54:42 PM
Quote from: Rico on May 27, 2010, 04:40:35 PM
A Rand new kinda Racism....

Bounce Sister Sara on your knee aye daddy!


??????

Do you where that quote came from?
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: nathanm on May 27, 2010, 05:05:51 PM
Quote from: guido911 on May 27, 2010, 04:28:23 PM

Right back at ya.  And incidentally, the clip I posted was a rant from a dem; like this one.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37878.html
Yeah, I know. Carville is an idiot and has been for a long time. His blathering was the specific reason I included the part about how it's stupid to call this "Obama's Katrina".

Also, I think you should be aware that Obama has done quite a few things I disagree with. I have, after all, posted my discontent on this forum. If you were previously not aware of that, consider yourself informed.

In any event, this whole lack of response idea is completely at odds with reality. There are something around 70 experts advising the administration, plus the approximately 20,000 federal employees actively working on cleanup.

Let's blame the morons who ignored the signs that a blowout was getting ready to happen hours before it actually did after they had started replacing drilling mud with seawater rather than the people who have been cleaning up the mess the morons made. Or would that be too ideological for you?

Also, blaming Obama for the initial response, when initial reports indicated that the leak was minor and would be easily contained is pretty far off base. What one does when confronted with a thousand barrel a day spill is vastly different than what one does when confronted with a 20,000 barrel a day spill. There was no delay, except in the minds of right wing radio and television personalities, several of whom went so far as to speculate that the whole thing was a setup by the administration to get some bill or another passed or make BP look bad, among other conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: guido911 on May 27, 2010, 05:50:33 PM
No more thrills for Matthews:
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/27/bad-news-chris-matthewss-tingle-finally-ends/
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Red Arrow on May 27, 2010, 09:53:29 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on May 27, 2010, 04:39:02 PM
  Lawyers can't stop an oil spill.

How about if you stuff them down the well instead of mud and concrete?
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Hoss on May 27, 2010, 10:13:46 PM
Quote from: Red Arrow on May 27, 2010, 09:53:29 PM
How about if you stuff them down the well instead of mud and concrete?

How about we send them down there along with the bigwigs at BP?
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Red Arrow on May 27, 2010, 10:17:41 PM
Quote from: Hoss on May 27, 2010, 10:13:46 PM
How about we send them down there along with the bigwigs at BP?

Sounds like a plan.  Think we could make any money on it?
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: rwarn17588 on May 27, 2010, 11:43:22 PM
Quote from: Conan71 on May 27, 2010, 04:39:02 PM

Honestly tell me that McCain wouldn't have been crucified in the media by now for how poorly this has been handled if it had been on his watch.  


OK ... McCain wouldn't have been crucified, namely because he has many, many friends in the media.

Besides, I think most folks recognize this for what it is ... a gigantic clusterf*ck by BP.
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Gaspar on May 28, 2010, 07:19:24 AM
Quote from: Red Arrow on May 27, 2010, 09:53:29 PM
How about if you stuff them down the well instead of mud and concrete?

I think a lawyer topkill maneuver would be a favorable response.  I think we have enough resources for it.
Quote70 experts advising the administration, plus the approximately 20,000 federal employees actively working on cleanup.

Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Conan71 on May 28, 2010, 09:21:47 AM
Quote from: rwarn17588 on May 27, 2010, 11:43:22 PM
OK ... McCain wouldn't have been crucified, namely because he has many, many friends in the media.

Besides, I think most folks recognize this for what it is ... a gigantic clusterf*ck by BP.

An entire eco-system and hundreds of miles of coastline hangs in the balance here while the Government and officials with BP & Transocean jockey for control and disperse blame.  Louisiana could have already put up 10 miles in of sand barriers to protect wetlands if the U.S. Gov't would have responded when the request was made on May 11.  To date, they still have no permission to do so because the Feds are dithering.

President Bush was harshly criticized for a slow response to Katrina.  He was in N.O. within four days, he was on top of the situation as it developed.  Sending him in any earlier likely would have gotten in the way of critical rescue operations due to the security needs, the media circus which follows him and the total distraction it would have caused.  FEMA had never been faced with that large a scale of a disaster before.  As well, the city and state governments were somewhat defiant of what aid had been sent to them ("we aren't getting on a bunch of damn school buses!") by the Feds in the Katrina disaster.  This time around, the parish and state governments are trying to mitigate the damage and they are being forced to sit and spin while the Feds sit on their thumbs.  Wasn't that the same charges leveled at FEMA and the Bush admin? 

It was fully eight days before President Obama made public comments on the growing disaster in the Gulf and it's obvious the JD, EPA, and DHS (exactly why again were the JD and DHS a part of the original response?) aren't any better organized to handle what could become the largest ecologic disaster in American history if the spill is not stopped soon.  I see President Obama getting a pass that President Bush did not. 

Since there's a common misconception in the media and American left that oil companies own the GOP, I'm sure McCain would have been crucified.  Checking opensecrets.org, BP has donated in the neighborhood of $3.5mm in political contributions.  Care to guess who the single largest recipient has been of that largesse? President Obama, $77,000 worth in his 2008 campaign for POTUS.  While the President has been decrying the cozy relationship between industry regulators and the industry, that oily money has his palm prints all over it, yet it's not getting much play in the media at all.
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: rwarn17588 on May 28, 2010, 09:51:45 AM
Conan, you can keep saying that McCain would have been crucified by the media, and I've offered evidence why he wouldn't have.

McCain's been very friendly with national and Beltway reporters for many years. That fact is indisputable.

Face it ... your half-baked conjecture is no better than mine.  ;D
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Gaspar on May 28, 2010, 10:03:47 AM
Conan,

The whole leader thing is not really his forte.  He's more of a speaker. 

He gave a great speech yesterday.

. . .and Rwarn, you're right the media really hates Obama.  They're at his throat all the time.  Poor guy. . .gives me a chill running up my leg just thinking about it.
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Conan71 on May 28, 2010, 10:18:01 AM
Quote from: rwarn17588 on May 28, 2010, 09:51:45 AM
Conan, you can keep saying that McCain would have been crucified by the media, and I've offered evidence why he wouldn't have.

McCain's been very friendly with national and Beltway reporters for many years. That fact is indisputable.

Face it ... your half-baked conjecture is no better than mine.  ;D

Evidence?  When did your opinion become evidence?  Afterall, my opinion is the only one which matters  ;)

You do have to admit that the GOP is percieved as the coddler of big oil, yes?  As such, the implication would have been the administration enabled an accident like this because that's what evil Republicans do: they only look out for corporate interests and take corrupt oil money, environment be damned. 

You are right, I forget how kind McCain's friends in the beltway media were to him during the 2008 general election.  Shame on me.
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: rwarn17588 on May 28, 2010, 10:19:53 AM
Quote from: Gaspar on May 28, 2010, 10:03:47 AM

. . .and Rwarn, you're right the media really hates Obama.  They're at his throat all the time.  Poor guy. . .gives me a chill running up my leg just thinking about it.

I don't know whether they hate or like Obama. Based on what I've read and heard from a wide variety of sources, it seems to be neither in the overall scheme of things for a enormous range of reasons.

I do know that many reporters in the Beltway like McCain very much. They've hung around his Arizona ranch in Sedona, they've been buddy-buddy with him in campaigns, they like his informal chats with them. This is all very well-documented.
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: rwarn17588 on May 28, 2010, 10:23:40 AM
Quote from: Conan71 on May 28, 2010, 10:18:01 AM
Evidence?  When did your opinion become evidence?  Afterall, my opinion is the only one which matters  ;)

You do have to admit that the GOP is percieved as the coddler of big oil, yes?  As such, the implication would have been the administration enabled an accident like this because that's what evil Republicans do: they only look out for corporate interests and take corrupt oil money, environment be damned. 

You are right, I forget how kind McCain's friends in the beltway media were to him during the 2008 general election.  Shame on me.

Yes, McCain got a pass from many in the media for some pretty disreputable things that occurred during his 2008 campaign. You had all sorts of prominent Beltway reporters express their disappointment with him, but they didn't go further than that because they liked him too much.

And, yes, the GOP is considered a coddler of big oil because they've been a coddler of big business in general. This is not news to anyone.
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Conan71 on May 28, 2010, 10:30:33 AM
Quote from: rwarn17588 on May 28, 2010, 10:23:40 AM
Yes, McCain got a pass from many in the media for some pretty disreputable things that occurred during his 2008 campaign. You had all sorts of prominent Beltway reporters express their disappointment with him, but they didn't go further than that because they liked him too much.

And, yes, the GOP is considered a coddler of big oil because they've been a coddler of big business in general. This is not news to anyone.

Disreputable? Such as?  They went real easy on him vis-a-vis his choice for a running mate, we know that much.  What else played so well with the media?  Was that the same media which accused him of having anger issues, living apart from his wife, crapping on his first wife Carol, snide comments about his physical disabilities and age?  That media?  Or was that the other media?
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Gaspar on May 28, 2010, 10:31:04 AM
Quote from: rwarn17588 on May 28, 2010, 10:23:40 AM


And, yes, the GOP is considered a coddler of big oil because they've been a coddler of big business business in general. This is not news to anyone.

Fixed it for you.

I hate those evil employers. . . making people go to work.
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Gaspar on May 28, 2010, 10:32:35 AM
Quote from: Conan71 on May 28, 2010, 10:30:33 AM
crapping on his first wife Carol


Disgusting fetish!  :-X
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Conan71 on May 28, 2010, 10:34:08 AM
Quote from: Gaspar on May 28, 2010, 10:32:35 AM
Disgusting fetish!  :-X

I'm going to have to invent a coffee speedy dry for computer keyboards, that or put the cup down before I open one of your posts.
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: rwarn17588 on May 28, 2010, 10:34:44 AM
Quote from: Conan71 on May 28, 2010, 10:30:33 AM
Disreputable? Such as?  They went real easy on him vis-a-vis his choice for a running mate, we know that much.  What else played so well with the media?  Was that the same media which accused him of having anger issues, living apart from his wife, crapping on his first wife Carol, snide comments about his physical disabilities and age?  That media?  Or was that the other media?


You're talking about stuff that didn't get much traction in the overall scheme of things and rightfully so, except maybe for that horrible choice for a veep, which should have gotten a lot of scrutiny.

I mean, if you campaign for months about your experience and your opponent's lack thereof, it's pretty stupid to choose a running mate that eviscerates your own strength.
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: nathanm on May 28, 2010, 04:01:55 PM
Quote from: Gaspar on May 28, 2010, 10:31:04 AM
Fixed it for you.

I hate those evil employers. . . making people go to work.
Your fix was a major failure. The GOP coddles big business, not small business. They leave small business to rot. As a small business owner, Obama and the Democrats have done more for you in two years than the GOP did in eight. Health care "reform" being the least of those things.
Title: Re: The "Serpent Head" Goes After Obama
Post by: Cats Cats Cats on May 28, 2010, 04:09:46 PM
Quote from: nathanm on May 28, 2010, 04:01:55 PM
Your fix was a major failure. The GOP coddles big business, not small business. They leave small business to rot. As a small business owner, Obama and the Democrats have done more for you in two years than the GOP did in eight. Health care "reform" being the least of those things.

They severely reduced the incentive for those with money to invest in small business with the capital gains tax reduction.  Unless your small business has stock the rich can buy (which most don't), they have to pay 30% tax on any money they make off of your investment and 15% on BP, Exxon, Walmart, Pizza Hut, etc etc.