I admit to being skeptical when I heard that businesses around the country were taking steps to boycott Arizona after the immigration bill passed. Boycotts get threatened all the time but either they don't materialize or the economic impact is so small as to be invisible, and certainly not big enough to effect policy.
Not so with the Arizona boycott: (http://www.hotelnewsnow.com/articles.aspx?ArticleId=3325)
Quote"The Arizona Hotel and Lodging Association reported at least 23 meetings had been cancelled throughout the state, representing an estimated US$6 million to US$10 million in lost revenue.
[snip]
Meanwhile, Phoenix stands to lose US$90 million in hotel and convention business during the next five years, city officials estimate. Groups that already have cancelled include the Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, which was slated to hold its July meeting at the Sheraton Phoenix Downtown. The meeting was projected to draw approximately 5,000 attendees and about 10,000 visitors, according to the fraternity.
Additionally, the Republican National Committee bypassed Phoenix for Tampa, Florida, as the site of the group's 2012 convention. The GOP's decision came as Hispanic groups and others urged organizations to boycott the state of Arizona, the Associated Press reported."
Of course, Arizona's GOP is doubling down. They recently passed a law to ban ethnic studies in every Arizona school district. (http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/12/nation/la-na-ethnic-studies-20100512) It makes an excellent companion bill to the recent immigration law, and really illuminates the driving purpose behind both of them: to git them Mixicans outta Arizona.
Help me understand Wevsus,
1. What can any Arizona law enforcement official do under the Arizona immigration law that a federal law enforcement official cannot already do?
2. What requirement does the Arizona law place on any non-citizen living in Arizona that federal law does already not place on any non-citizen living elsewhere in the United States?
Shouldn't California also boycott the federal government?
I think it would make more sense to just boycott California ;D
Wait until Arizona turns the faucet off.....
Quote from: Breadburner on May 14, 2010, 11:09:03 AM
Wait until Arizona turns the faucet off.....
+1
. . .and the lights!
Soon California will be the most energy efficient state in the union. :D
Quote from: Gaspar on May 14, 2010, 01:17:18 PM
+1
. . .and the lights!
Soon California will be the most energy efficient state in the union. :D
Lol...Nice...
My wife is Native American, and often gets confused with Hispanics, especially when we travel. People in certain areas will sometimes even speak to her in Spanish first, sadly she only speaks some French that she took in high school and college.
We are planning a Vacation style road trip ending in Vegas with the kids over the summer and are planning on driving out to the Grand Canyon as part of the trip. I drive pretty fast and will probably get pulled over at some point on the trip, I usually do. What papers should she carry to prove she is an American? She has no green card, no resident alien card. Despite her appearance she has no papers granting her citizenship because she was born at St John's, just like her mother was, I think her father was born there too. All she has is her DL. Does she need to be sure to carry her Passport also if we go Arizona this summer? It might be expired, will that be a problem? What about my daughter, she doesn't have a Passport, she looks a lot like her mom, do we need to make sure to get her Passport before we go into Arizona? Are they going to potentially lock up my 14 year old for not carrying papers?
The real result of this law is that illegals will be unwilling and unable to call police when they are the victims of crimes, it will be open season for criminals on illegals. It's going to make controlling crime and drugs more difficult instead of easier. Police contact is all that is required to start the questioning. And that law isn't even the most offensive one just passed in Arizona.
Teachers with accents are going to not be allowed to teach in Arizona anymore. The state is going to send auditors into schools testing the English skills of teachers:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/teachers/heavily-accented-teachers-remo.html
And Ethnic Studies classes are being restricted:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/teachers/in-arizona-bad-ethnic-studies.html
These two laws have nothing to do with illegals. It impacts Native American Studies, and Black Studies. And these teachers are not illegals aliens. A Japanese teacher can be removed for having an accent just like a Hispanic can. It's pointed at everyone who isn't white, and they are especially pointed at you if you are brown. Over 30% of Arizona is Hispanic (about 25% of those Hispanics are illegal) and another 5% are Native, so about 1/3 of Arizona's citizens (not counting the illegals) are now required to carry papers proving they are citizens, and if they have an accent, they need not apply to teach. And their unique history cannot be taught in schools.
Quote from: swake on May 14, 2010, 04:38:26 PM
My wife is Native American, and often gets confused with Hispanics, especially when we travel. People in certain areas will sometimes even speak to her in Spanish first, sadly she only speaks some French that she took in high school and college.
We are planning a Vacation style road trip ending in Vegas with the kids over the summer and are planning on driving out to the Grand Canyon as part of the trip. I drive pretty fast and will probably get pulled over at some point on the trip, I usually do. What papers should she carry to prove she is an American? She has no green card, no resident alien card. Despite her appearance she has no papers granting her citizenship because she was born at St John's, just like her mother was, I think her father was born there too. All she has is her DL. Does she need to be sure to carry her Passport also if we go Arizona this summer? It might be expired, will that be a problem? What about my daughter, she doesn't have a Passport, she looks a lot like her mom, do we need to make sure to get her Passport before we go into Arizona? Are they going to potentially lock up my 14 year old for not carrying papers?
Try not breaking the law by driving beyond the speed limit and avoid the whole mess.
(http://earlyrecovery.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/authentic-drama-queen.jpg)
That's the best you can do? Your usually inflammatory Guido, but at least make some defensible arguments. That is just beneath you. Drive through any state with out of state tags and your chances of being stopped for some infraction multiply. Arizona will be avoided and it will be costly.
Arizona is doing much of the South a lovely favor. We can be assured that we're smarter than they are (for the moment anyway) and are likely to get some of their tourism dollars. Interesting 'ol Gas mentioned Cali. I like what their governor said. He was going to visit but figured his accent may get him sent back to Austria.
Honestly, I hope the poorly thought out efforts to get the Feds attention and rally the rabble is successful. The latest one, eliminating ethnic studies, even though they were voluntary, just tipped their hand.
Quote from: waterboy on May 14, 2010, 05:42:18 PM
That's the best you can do? Your usually inflammatory Guido, but at least make some defensible arguments. That is just beneath you. Drive through any state with out of state tags and your chances of being stopped for some infraction multiply. Arizona will be avoided and it will be costly.
Come on waterboy, the lines are already drawn on who supports or opposes AZ new law. There is a whole thread on the subject. My first reaction to swake's post was to take it as an attempt to use raw emotion as means to voice displeasure with the law. In other words, just another "papers please" rant.
Honestly, if he has a legitimate fear, freakin call someone in AZ law enforcement and find out what you will need to have. How hard is that? Better yet, read the law. It states exactly what is needed. Here, I'll make it easier:
http://azgovernor.gov/dms/upload/HB_2162Signed.pdf
Go to pages 3-4 for the pertinent language.
Why should he have to? Why should she have to worry?
They should expect a tremendous backlash from everyday folks who don't want to have to worry about proving their legitimacy by calling ahead to check with authorities. This is going to cost the state plenty of money and thats where the backlash will be fueled.
Quote from: guido911 on May 14, 2010, 06:06:37 PM
Honestly, if he has a legitimate fear, freakin call someone in AZ law enforcement and find out what you will need to have. How hard is that? Better yet, read the law. It states exactly what is needed.
Sort of. The language is vague on whether a driver's license is OK, since not all driver's licenses are allowed as proof of legal presence under the law.
You seem to forget that existing laws are sometimes abused and it's not unheard of for citizens to be detained for extended periods of time while their status is being verified.
Quote from: nathanm on May 14, 2010, 07:25:08 PM
Sort of. The language is vague on whether a driver's license is OK, since not all driver's licenses are allowed as proof of legal presence under the law.
You seem to forget that existing laws are sometimes abused and it's not unheard of for citizens to be detained for extended periods of time while their status is being verified.
He!! Nate, that happens with every law. I have written in the past about how I have been detained wrongfully several times. I got over it.
Quote from: waterboy on May 14, 2010, 06:28:57 PM
Why should he have to? Why should she have to worry?
They should expect a tremendous backlash from everyday folks who don't want to have to worry about proving their legitimacy by calling ahead to check with authorities. This is going to cost the state plenty of money and thats where the backlash will be fueled.
Listen to the AZ governor:
Quote from: guido911 on May 14, 2010, 08:27:16 PM
He!! Nate, that happens with every law. I have written in the past about how I have been detained wrongfully several times. I got over it.
See, I don't think that's OK.
The interesting thing will be to see if the boycott that's materializing actually has the intended effect. Can enough voluntary (and admittedly scattershot) economic pressure be brought to bear to reverse the immigration bill? Tourism is a huuuuge industry there in AZ, and even if a percentage of existing conventions decide to either cancel or not rebook, there's gonna be a big smoking hole where their sales tax revenue used to be.
Quote from: guido911 on May 14, 2010, 06:06:37 PM
Come on waterboy, the lines are already drawn on who supports or opposes AZ new law.
...And it's pretty much dividing the country.
As many people are appalled by it as fervently support it.
But as our nationalist pride mobilizes, are we making Mexicans the new Jews?
You know, I was planning a trip to the town of my birth, Tulsa. I'm now considering changing that since I live in Arizona and I don't want to come to a place where I am going to feel intimidated by the fact that I am being labled racist because I have an AZ DL and AZ tags on my car. Will I be able to get a hotel room in Tulsa or is going to be "We don't serve your kind"?
Geez, you know it's sad when the US ATTORNEY GENERAL criticizes a law that he hasn't even bothered to read http://www.mediaite.com/online/attorney-general-eric-holder-admits-to-not-reading-arizonas-immigration-law/ (http://www.mediaite.com/online/attorney-general-eric-holder-admits-to-not-reading-arizonas-immigration-law/) Come on he has people reading it for him so he can make a determination on it. IT'S TEN PAGES LONG! He dosen't have time to read it?
I am so tired of the knee jerk reactions to this from people who haven't even bothered to read the bill.
And as for LA boycotting Arizona, talk about the pot calling the kettle, Cali was the leader in illegal immigration for years before they(the Feds) tightened the border there.
Arnie needs to tend to Cali and stay out of AZ.
Montebello High School in California
You will not see this heart-stopping photo on the front page of the NY Times, nor on the lead story of the major news networks.
The protestors at Montebello High School took the American flag off the school's flag pole and hung it upside down while putting up the Mexican flag over it.
This stunt may be the nail in the coffin of any guest-worker/amnesty plan on the table in Washington ..
The image of the American flag subsumed to another and turned upside down on American soil is already spreading on Internet forums and via e-mail.
Pass this along to every American citizen in your address books and to every representative in the state and federal government.
If you choose to remain uninvolved, do not be amazed when you no longer have a nation to call your own nor anything you have worked for left, because it will have been 'redistributed' to the activists, while you choose the path of peace and stay out of the 'fray'.
Check history, it is full of nations/empires that disappeared when its citizens no longer held on to their core beliefs and values.
One person CAN make a difference.
One plus one plus one plus one plus one plus one........ ..
The battle for our secure borders and immigration laws that actually mean something, however, hasn't even begun.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/mexicoflag.asp (http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/mexicoflag.asp)
Quote from: swake on May 14, 2010, 04:38:26 PM
My wife is Native American, and often gets confused with Hispanics, especially when we travel. People in certain areas will sometimes even speak to her in Spanish first, sadly she only speaks some French that she took in high school and college.
We are planning a Vacation style road trip ending in Vegas with the kids over the summer and are planning on driving out to the Grand Canyon as part of the trip. I drive pretty fast and will probably get pulled over at some point on the trip, I usually do. What papers should she carry to prove she is an American? She has no green card, no resident alien card. Despite her appearance she has no papers granting her citizenship because she was born at St John's, just like her mother was, I think her father was born there too. All she has is her DL. Does she need to be sure to carry her Passport also if we go Arizona this summer? It might be expired, will that be a problem? What about my daughter, she doesn't have a Passport, she looks a lot like her mom, do we need to make sure to get her Passport before we go into Arizona? Are they going to potentially lock up my 14 year old for not carrying papers?
The real result of this law is that illegals will be unwilling and unable to call police when they are the victims of crimes, it will be open season for criminals on illegals. It's going to make controlling crime and drugs more difficult instead of easier. Police contact is all that is required to start the questioning. And that law isn't even the most offensive one just passed in Arizona.
Teachers with accents are going to not be allowed to teach in Arizona anymore. The state is going to send auditors into schools testing the English skills of teachers:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/teachers/heavily-accented-teachers-remo.html
And Ethnic Studies classes are being restricted:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/teachers/in-arizona-bad-ethnic-studies.html
These two laws have nothing to do with illegals. It impacts Native American Studies, and Black Studies. And these teachers are not illegals aliens. A Japanese teacher can be removed for having an accent just like a Hispanic can. It's pointed at everyone who isn't white, and they are especially pointed at you if you are brown. Over 30% of Arizona is Hispanic (about 25% of those Hispanics are illegal) and another 5% are Native, so about 1/3 of Arizona's citizens (not counting the illegals) are now required to carry papers proving they are citizens, and if they have an accent, they need not apply to teach. And their unique history cannot be taught in schools.
Do both you and your wife have VALID DL's? If so you have nothing to worry about.
"
The real result of this law is that illegals will be unwilling and unable to call police when they are the victims of crimes, it will be open season for criminals on illegals. It's going to make controlling crime and drugs more difficult instead of easier. Police contact is all that is required to start the questioning. And that law isn't even the most offensive one just passed in Arizona."
Total BS. They don't report or cooperate now. And controlling drugs more difficult? Are you serious? You have no clue as to how bad it is now.
"
Teachers with accents are going to not be allowed to teach in Arizona anymore. The state is going to send auditors into schools testing the English skills of teachers:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/teachers/heavily-accented-teachers-remo.html
And Ethnic Studies classes are being restricted:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/teachers/in-arizona-bad-ethnic-studies.html"
This is stupid to begin with, and it came out of Tucson not Phoenix.
Quote from: dbacks fan on May 15, 2010, 12:32:31 AM
Do both you and your wife have VALID DL's? If so you have nothing to worry about.
Untrue, there are many aliens with DLs, it is in no way positive proof of citizenship. For example it's really common for people with expired VISAs to have valid DLs.
Quote from: dbacks fan on May 15, 2010, 12:32:31 AM
"Teachers with accents are going to not be allowed to teach in Arizona anymore. The state is going to send auditors into schools testing the English skills of teachers:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/teachers/heavily-accented-teachers-remo.html
And Ethnic Studies classes are being restricted:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/teachers/in-arizona-bad-ethnic-studies.html"
This is stupid to begin with, and it came out of Tucson not Phoenix.
I think you need to check again, it's the Arizona State Department of Education, they may well be going after Tucson Public Schools specifically (which is nuts) but these rules are from the state and apply to the entire state.
Quote from: dbacks fan on May 15, 2010, 12:32:31 AM
You have no clue as to how bad it is now.
Apparently you have never heard of this drug called methamphetamine. Would you like to try sticking your foot in your mouth again?
And you just might want to consider reading the law we're discussing. If you did, you would know that driver's licenses (aside from Arizona licenses, which are) are not unequivocally accepted as proof of lawful residence.
Boycots are all fine and good until people figure out how much their lives are in convenienced by it. Of course Gov Schwartzenegger thinks the boycot is great. He presides over the biggest illegal alien-coddling state in the union. Maybe they will wind up with more cheap (and unwanted in Az) labor.
Quote from: Gaspar on May 14, 2010, 01:17:18 PM
+1
. . .and the lights!
Soon California will be the most energy efficient state in the union. :D
Boy did you ever call that one. Read this letter, freakin hilarious:
http://hotair.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/letter-azcc-villaraigosa.pdf.pdf
California just keeps kicking themselves in the raisins. Blissfully liberal and terminally insolvent. It's like a whole state of college freshmen. A thousand causes and not a single clue. :D
(http://blogs.citypages.com/gimmenoise/california_raisins.jpg)
Quote from: Gaspar on May 18, 2010, 02:35:35 PM
California just keeps kicking themselves in the raisins. Blissfully liberal and terminally insolvent. It's like a whole state of college freshmen. A thousand causes and not a single clue. :D
(http://blogs.citypages.com/gimmenoise/california_raisins.jpg)
San Diego is getting theirs too.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/17/san-diego-faces-medicine-arizona-residents-cancel-travel-following-boycott/
Quote from: guido911 on May 18, 2010, 02:57:46 PM
San Diego is getting theirs too.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/17/san-diego-faces-medicine-arizona-residents-cancel-travel-following-boycott/
"According to the newspaper, the convention bureau has received about 25-30 emails from Arizona residents, with some saying they are canceling their reservations and taking their money elsewhere."
Ouch.
It's a bit naive to think that Arizona's only option was to sit and take it regarding the boycotts.
I'm curious. . . President Obama is preparing to speak at the commencement ceremony at Kalamazoo HS in Michigan. Each graduating senior will get the opportunity to shake the President's hand as they walk off the stage. The president' staff is requiring each student to submit the following information before the commencement.
Full Name
Birthdate
Social Security Number
Citizenship status
I wonder if there will be boycotts?
Quote from: Gaspar on May 19, 2010, 08:07:53 AM
I'm curious. . . President Obama is preparing to speak at the commencement ceremony at Kalamazoo HS in Michigan. Each graduating senior will get the opportunity to shake the President's hand as they walk off the stage. The president' staff is requiring each student to submit the following information before the commencement.
Full Name
Birthdate
Social Security Number
Citizenship status
I wonder if there will be boycotts?
Imagine the backlash if the opposing parties get hold of a picture of Obama shaking an illegal's hand. I'd imagine this is CYA territory.
Quote from: Townsend on May 19, 2010, 09:26:09 AM
Imagine the backlash if the opposing parties get hold of a picture of Obama shaking an illegal's hand. I'd imagine this is CYA territory.
Good point!
I didn't even consider the Obama CYA machine.
Quote from: Gaspar on May 19, 2010, 09:29:12 AM
Good point!
I didn't even consider the Obama CYA machine.
Every politician needs a good one. They tend to be large asses and need alot of coverage.
Quote from: we vs us on May 18, 2010, 05:25:01 PM
"According to the newspaper, the convention bureau has received about 25-30 emails from Arizona residents, with some saying they are canceling their reservations and taking their money elsewhere."
Ouch.
The San Diego CVB in conjunction with the hotel/motel association have been running ads in the Sunday AZ Republic, two weekends in a row, stating that 'Zonies' are welcome in San Diego. Hmmm....
First of all, why do Californians always make up patronizing and intentionally belittling nick-names for people from other states who they feel are inferior to California (think Okie)?
Second, I say F**K San Diego, and the rest of California. They hate Arizonans, and always make sure to point out to me when I visit SD how hideous and horrible and inferior Arizona is (much like most Texans reactions when asked about Oklahoma).
Third, do the politicians in California not have enough probelms to worry about in their own state? If I were a California resident, I would be outraged at the time, money and resources spent by elected officials to set up this ridiculous boycott, which is obviously an attempt to keep CA voters from focusing on their own failures.
Finally, I find the whole situation ridiculous, as it is painfully clear that the politicians on both sides of the issue, in both Arizona and elsewhere are just grandstanding and have no positive or productive motives. The law does nothing to actually secure the borders or curb violent crime (no matter how hard the AZ GOP keeps trying to convince us it does), and the boycots do nothing except hurt small businesses and many people who actually don't support this new law.