In case you didn't see it what everyone knew was coming happened today, 256 first year teachers were laid off at Tulsa Public Schools. This is on top of the 33 that will be laid off at Jenks and I'm sure we'll hear of other districts announcing the same. The main culprit is that the state is cutting funding up to 10% and the shortfall has affected school budgets statewide. What are some solutions to increasing state funding? Or do we wait until the economy improves and go from there? I don't have a full understanding of the whole situation but it doesn't look good. I know just about every state is in the same situation but it's the ones that figure out ways to overcome it that will come out better in the end.
I am surprised the Tulsa Community Foundation and the Tulsa Public Schools Foundation did not publicly announce they are going to donate funds to save at least some of the first year teachers. It seems like there could have been more options to solicit community support. I know I would donate to a 'Save our Teachers' fund.
Unfortunately this is not a short term fix, so short term solutions will not produce positive long term results.
Hard to believe 2^8 teachers weren't needed.
This got me to thinking about the other thread we have going on about education and metropolitan areas. Sorry, mini-rant about unions coming on:
How many of these first year teachers might have the potential to be the best educators we've got on payroll? Teacher's jobs are being protected based on tenure, not performance or merit. The teacher's unions along with other public service unions (the recent police layoffs anyone?) help protect some of the lowest hanging fruit while sacrificing some of the brightest new talent. There's no doubt in my mind there are teachers with 10, 20, or even 30 plus years of service who have been able to coast along picking up a paycheck while adding little to the education system. Most certainly there are long-term educators who are great teachers who might have not started out so great but grew into the job. I do not believe union educators are inherently bad, but I do believe the system, as it is, does nothing to ensure better results. All it does is help with job retention for senior staff members. People talk about spending more money on education but it doesn't come with any stipulations for better results.
IMO, if we expect better results in public education, then find and retain the best teachers but create a measurable yardstick for each and every discipline to reward successful teachers. Yes, you can even figure out a fair way to do this in under-performing schools where the parental involvement is virtually nil. I have no problem paying teachers more money, but to pay it simply because they ask for it is entirely the wrong way to expect better results. Make it merit-based and see what happens.
Simple disclosure: I'm not a union fan and no one in my immediate family ever was a union member. Hammer away...
President Obama supports merit pay which, in theory, will reward the better teachers regardless of union affiliation. Of course it is difficult to gauge in some schools where the teacher could be great but the students just don't care.
I know there is growing support in Washington for an 'education stimulus' that would aim to avoid many of the teacher layoffs around the country. Hopefully it happens and provides the short-term fix that is needed. It seems premature for TPS and others to already announce teacher layoffs before a decision is made by the feds. As long as the economy continues to improve so should the prospects of returning education funding, at the state level, back to pre-recession levels. Oklahoma is in a better position than many states in this regard due to oil/gas revenues which should increase but the state still does not fund education as well as it should.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/13/AR2010051305219.html?hpid=topnews (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/13/AR2010051305219.html?hpid=topnews)
I see where Kansas has raised its state sales tax 1% to help fund education and other programs that were going to see major cuts. Would Oklahoma consider something like that?
http://education.gaeatimes.com/2010/05/13/kansas-cuts-against-red-state-image-gop-rhetoric-by-raising-sales-tax-to-plug-budget-gap-3468/ (http://education.gaeatimes.com/2010/05/13/kansas-cuts-against-red-state-image-gop-rhetoric-by-raising-sales-tax-to-plug-budget-gap-3468/)
Well somewhere down the line, we would have to get the Mayor to actually apply for the funds for Tulsa.
Quote from: Trogdor on May 14, 2010, 09:10:09 AM
Well somewhere down the line, we would have to get the Mayor to actually apply for the funds for Tulsa.
I don't think that's correct. TPS operates independent of the city, regardless what mayoral candidates say about being all about better education. Any grant requests would come from TPS or the state, I believe.
Besides, if Mayor Bartlet's (sic) office had to apply for grant funds, his Chief of Staff would simply lie about what he knew and when he knew it.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 14, 2010, 09:23:52 AM
I don't think that's correct. TPS operates independent of the city, regardless what mayoral candidates say about being all about better education. Any grant requests would come from TPS or the state, I believe.
Besides, if Mayor Bartlet's (sic) office had to apply for grant funds, his Chief of Staff would simply lie about what he knew and when he knew it.
Glad to hear we could skip the lying part of getting the money.
Quote from: SXSW on May 14, 2010, 09:06:52 AM
President Obama supports merit pay which, in theory, will reward the better teachers regardless of union affiliation. Of course it is difficult to gauge in some schools where the teacher could be great but the students just don't care.
I know there is growing support in Washington for an 'education stimulus' that would aim to avoid many of the teacher layoffs around the country. Hopefully it happens and provides the short-term fix that is needed. It seems premature for TPS and others to already announce teacher layoffs before a decision is made by the feds. As long as the economy continues to improve so should the prospects of returning education funding, at the state level, back to pre-recession levels. Oklahoma is in a better position than many states in this regard due to oil/gas revenues which should increase but the state still does not fund education as well as it should.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/13/AR2010051305219.html?hpid=topnews (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/13/AR2010051305219.html?hpid=topnews)
I see where Kansas has raised its state sales tax 1% to help fund education and other programs that were going to see major cuts. Would Oklahoma consider something like that?
http://education.gaeatimes.com/2010/05/13/kansas-cuts-against-red-state-image-gop-rhetoric-by-raising-sales-tax-to-plug-budget-gap-3468/ (http://education.gaeatimes.com/2010/05/13/kansas-cuts-against-red-state-image-gop-rhetoric-by-raising-sales-tax-to-plug-budget-gap-3468/)
It might seem premature, but I believe that TPS is required (maybe via union contract?) to send out notices of non-renewal by a certain date. Currently, there isn't even a budget, so Ballard is simply going off the projected budget cut of 10%. If the cut is less, he can always rehire the teachers. But past a certain date, I believed that contracts are deemed to be renewed.
I heard they are trying to limit education cuts to 5% at max. A great myth is that the union protects bad teachers. I went to a conference and heard a lawyer say that he could fire the teacher of the year if he wanted to and the union coudn't say boo about it. You just have to follow procedures. The best way to "save teachers" is to contact your legislators and tell them how you feel. It's a joke we are two weeks from the end of the legislative session and don't have a budget. By law teachers have to be notified by June 1st about non-renewal. TPS is just wanting to prepare their teaches for the worst. A 10% cut would result in 5,000 layoffs statewide, or 1 in 9 teachers losing their jobs. This would be a signifigant reduction in the state workforce. Harkin from Iowa has introdced the $23 million package in Congress to help out nationally.
Quote from: highschooljim2 on May 16, 2010, 01:11:03 AM
A great myth is that the union protects bad teachers.
Everybody screws up on occasion, thus it's always possible to fire somebody if you have patience.
Quote from: highschooljim2 on May 16, 2010, 01:11:03 AM
I heard they are trying to limit education cuts to 5% at max. A great myth is that the union protects bad teachers. I went to a conference and heard a lawyer say that he could fire the teacher of the year if he wanted to and the union coudn't say boo about it. You just have to follow procedures. The best way to "save teachers" is to contact your legislators and tell them how you feel. It's a joke we are two weeks from the end of the legislative session and don't have a budget. By law teachers have to be notified by June 1st about non-renewal. TPS is just wanting to prepare their teaches for the worst. A 10% cut would result in 5,000 layoffs statewide, or 1 in 9 teachers losing their jobs. This would be a signifigant reduction in the state workforce. Harkin from Iowa has introdced the $23 million package in Congress to help out nationally.
That is good idea to email/call our state legislators and let them know that a 10% cut in state education funding is too much. Hopefully the 'education stimulus' is passed and provides some federal help for teachers before it's too late.
Quote from: highschooljim2 on May 16, 2010, 01:11:03 AM
I heard they are trying to limit education cuts to 5% at max. A great myth is that the union protects bad teachers. I went to a conference and heard a lawyer say that he could fire the teacher of the year if he wanted to and the union coudn't say boo about it. You just have to follow procedures.
Bluff and bluster from the attorney. Where did those procedures come from? Unions, not school boards.
It is another crisis where we are building highways to be able to commute between points where cars will be able to compete with the air traffic? In the background is the stage coach waiting for its reincarnation in a world that progress has moved forward in its forever changing pace. Several articles have been written and TW contributed a portion of a page to the changes that are possible in the education system. The computer has made the system obsolete whereas at instant recall it has available the combined knowledge of hundreds of unneeded teachers in the local schools. Of course it could be used for knowledge not for home runs or recording nonexistent goals. While much of the world is moving forward with the computer replacing the teachers we have over produced in that profession. When Greece exchanged knowledge for playing sports the Romans merely walked in and took over. We are presently at the cross roads where we must shape up and recognize that the old dial land line phone is being replace with progress. So it be that the time is now to update a system that is failing and create other government jobs for the teachers.
Shadows makes teachers seem like displaced workers, like farm workers displaced by the combine, or an icehouse worker displaced by a freezer. Trust me even if all education was computerized you would have to have a human monitor because if not all kids would do would be playing video games, watching videos, and maybe the more intelligent ones reading a forum such as this. There is a place for online education but not for every single student. Conan as you probably know many non union workplaces have steps before they fire someone, such as a writeup or suspension of somekind. In college I worked a telemarketing job (yeah I know) and was suspended for 3 days without pay because a woman I called cussed at me and I cussed back. I served my suspension but was not fired and came back after 3 days. At my wife's work there are similar steps taken before someone is fired, it is a professional job and also non-union. Teacher can get fired for things just like any other job, and the process is similar to many other types of jobs.
A solution that could be looked at more closely with TPS and other districts is have local corporations adopt schools and 'endow' faculty positions. Adopting a school could also mean buying materials for students, assisting the PTA, and providing mentors. I know Williams has done something like this at Roosevelt, not sure to what extent though. The same thing in Denver: http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_15116576 (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_15116576)
There are plenty of local corporations and foundations that would help out if TPS reached out to them, if they haven't done so already.
There's been an adopt-a-school program in the past as I recall. I think the Zarrow Foundation was at the forefront of it. When I was in the SE Tulsa Jaycees we adopted Hoover Elementary. Some members volunteered classroom time, some of us built a new playground on the south side of the school. Sounds like a great TYPROS activity to me.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 19, 2010, 10:44:31 AM
There's been an adopt-a-school program in the past as I recall. I think the Zarrow Foundation was at the forefront of it. When I was in the SE Tulsa Jaycees we adopted Hoover Elementary. Some members volunteered classroom time, some of us built a new playground on the south side of the school. Sounds like a great TYPROS activity to me.
Indeed, there is. When I went to Foster, we were "adopted" by State Farm.
sorry, I've gone toe to toe with the union (transport not teachers) and the process of having someone fired that is in a union is far from the process of without the union. The steps that are taken at other places are at the discression of the employer, and do not have to be adhered to. When the union is involved, however, it is a process that becomes more of a battle than anything.
Show us one teacher that can instantly produce or recall any one segment of knowledge that is stored in the cheapest of computers and I will produce the recording of the buggy whip industry and its demise. In the WWll Walt Disney was called on to produce animated cartoons to train the soldiers where they were more efficient than live teachers and could cover classes in greater numbers. It is most difficult to accept generational changes but although we have been a progressive nation in changes we are on the threshold of another change we must accept or slip further into a 3rd world. Thousands of nations through the centuries have had to accept to be progressive as they created new societies. We are able to challenge in words of deceit as we step into the foot steps of the hundreds of nations that have came before us. Thus as our generation passes we can and will continue to flounder in the dark ages as progress moves on. Not in their wildest dreams would the past generation believe that at this time a very small box, smaller than a package of cigarettes contained a telephone, camera, recorder, satellite connection, road maps as well as is location. Thus the teaching profession is by each day becoming more obsolete.
Tulsa has the states a larges school district and is rated in the lower class of performance as far as the score test show. It is time for a change and by the common factors in the society when in any performance of a given task over staffing curtails performance expected but when reduction of staff is implicated we find those remaining with a job do have an initiative to increase production with less employees. This apply to the Nation as a hold as we become a nation of all chiefs without warriors.
Anyone else just hear the "Twilght Zone" theme song?
I'm surprised shadows hasn't started complaining about the storm sewer system at a time in which we're getting heavy rain and Mingo Creek is high, high, high.
Quote from: rwarn17588 on May 19, 2010, 08:48:09 PM
I'm surprised shadows hasn't started complaining about the storm sewer system at a time in which we're getting heavy rain and Mingo Creek is high, high, high.
Makes me wanna go check and see if it is right now...be right back!
Quote from: rwarn17588 on May 19, 2010, 08:48:09 PM
I'm surprised shadows hasn't started complaining about the storm sewer system at a time in which we're getting heavy rain and Mingo Creek is high, high, high.
It is easy to understand where the 62 square miles in the Mingo basin which the total rainfall for the year is equal to the rainfall in 24 hours of in the storm of '86. The stage is set we have only to wait for the action.
It is indicated that the TPS is lacking in math. Try the computer calculator and put a 4 inch rainfall in 3 hours that flow into the creek near 8 times faster than can exit down the creek. When we have a reoccurrence of the '86 flood, it can be justified as a 1,000 year flood but it is recommended that everyone carry flood insurance. Only in Tulsa can one fool most of the people most of the time.
It is time to update the school system in order to compete with a changing world and realize that schools were established for learning not playing games. We cannot continue to increase spending to educate where all are CEO's and no workers.
Quote from: Conan71 on May 19, 2010, 08:13:29 PM
Anyone else just hear the "Twilght Zone" theme song?
Some need hearing aids to hear the twilight introduction theme but be assured that it is being played. The diversion of the possible faulting of the government of Greece is being promoted as a cover up here where we are in the same condition as we have no metal backup of the tons of paper we are issuing. We await our government to print more cheap money to increase debt to be distributed to the teachers. Everyone is waiting for their share of the money as soon as the ink dries on it. Remember the dark ages follow the twilight zone.
Quote from: shadows on May 20, 2010, 03:30:30 PM
Remember the dark ages follow the twilight zone.
No, I think it was "the Nightstalker" and "Outer Limits".
Quote from: Townsend on May 20, 2010, 03:34:28 PM
No, I think it was "the Nightstalker" and "Outer Limits".
X-Files maybe?
"The Truth is Out There"....
Quote from: Townsend on May 20, 2010, 03:34:28 PM
No, I think it was "the Nightstalker" and "Outer Limits".
Rod Serling's "Night Gallery"
Quote from: shadows on May 20, 2010, 03:04:11 PM
It is easy to understand where the 62 square miles in the Mingo basin which the total rainfall for the year is equal to the rainfall in 24 hours of in the storm of '86 1984. The stage is set we have only to wait for the action.
Fixed that for ya. The flooding in '86 was along the river, not Mingo Creek. They were well into the building of retention basins and widening Mingo in '86 from the Admiral Mingo traffic circle down to the BA and 169.
Quote from: dbacks fan on May 20, 2010, 04:26:33 PM
Fixed that for ya. The flooding in '86 was along the river, not Mingo Creek. They were well into the building of retention basins and widening Mingo in '86 from the Admiral Mingo traffic circle down to the BA and 169.
Correct. I lived behind the Vegas Club (and actually live there again) during that flood. Mingo Creek from 11th to Admiral used to look like a jungle and was VERY narrow. Best thing they ever did was to dredge it out and create all the retention ponds throughout that watershed.
My parents when they bought that home were required to carry flood insurance. After the flood management was completed and proved that it mitigated the worst of it, they were no longer required to carry it.
BOT, And please no one bite my head off on this, wasn't the lottery supposed to be a big funder of education? I know that here in AZ that was always the premise, but the voters here just passed a $.01 sales tax increase for three years to "help fund education" at least 2/3rds towards education.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2010/05/19/20100519salestax-electionday0519.html (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2010/05/19/20100519salestax-electionday0519.html)
Quote from: Hoss on May 20, 2010, 04:32:10 PM
Correct. I lived behind the Vegas Club (and actually live there again) during that flood. Mingo Creek from 11th to Admiral used to look like a jungle and was VERY narrow. Best thing they ever did was to dredge it out and create all the retention ponds throughout that watershed.
My parents when they bought that home were required to carry flood insurance. After the flood management was completed and proved that it mitigated the worst of it, they were no longer required to carry it.
Several people that I went to school with lost their's to the flood and widening through the 21st/31st, Memorial/Mingo Road sq mile area. I remember that COT was proud of the fact that their widening project had reduced flooding in that corridor. A friend of the family actually got paid twice for his house near Skelly Jr High. Collected on the flood insurance for repairs, and then was bought by the city for removal.
Quote from: dbacks fan on May 20, 2010, 04:33:23 PM
BOT, And please no one bite my head off on this, wasn't the lottery supposed to be a big funder of education?
This gives some very good insight into the lottery's relationship with Tulsa Public Schools:
http://www.tulsaschools.org/pi/more_100407.shtm (http://www.tulsaschools.org/pi/more_100407.shtm)
From the article:
QuoteAccording to law, 35 percent of the lottery's proceeds are allocated to education. (The allocation was 30 percent for the lottery's first two years.)
For Tulsa Public Schools, the reality is that lottery funds in 2009 amounted to $2 million dollars —less than half of one percent of the district's annual budget.
Quote from: TURobY on May 20, 2010, 05:12:10 PM
This gives some very good insight into the lottery's relationship with Tulsa Public Schools:
http://www.tulsaschools.org/pi/more_100407.shtm (http://www.tulsaschools.org/pi/more_100407.shtm)
From the article:
Thanks, that is similar to what we have here. I have found an article from the Gila Indian tribe in which it describes that after passage of Prop 202 in 2002 17 of the tribes in the state would each share 8% of their respective revenue with the State of AZ, in return no other tribes would be allowed to build casinos (not new, but replacing old ones) for 23 years. A large portion of that 8% was earmarked for, wait for it.............
education.
http://www.gilariver.org/index.php/news/106-march-2010-grin/996-dont-break-promise-of-02-gaming-pact (http://www.gilariver.org/index.php/news/106-march-2010-grin/996-dont-break-promise-of-02-gaming-pact)
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Arizona_Proposition_202_(2002) (http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Arizona_Proposition_202_(2002))
http://www.keepingthepromiseaz.com/faqs/ (http://www.keepingthepromiseaz.com/faqs/)
Quote from: dbacks fan on May 20, 2010, 04:26:33 PM
Fixed that for ya. The flooding in '86 was along the river, not Mingo Creek. They were well into the building of retention basins and widening Mingo in '86 from the Admiral Mingo traffic circle down to the BA and 169.
Right it was the flood of '84. Am not aware of any storage for flood water constructed after that last 100 year flood. Most of the work was done after the 100 year floods in '74, '76 and before the flood of '84. I stand corrected as the flood on the Keystone caused by the miscalculation of rainfall over that water shed caused the opening of the gates and abandoning of flood control.
In the school system we have produced another non performing bureaucracy demanding greater salaries and working conditions, side stepping the intent of Jefferson's public school system. Now the cute little kitten has grown into a full grown Lion that demands more feed each day. As we follow in the foot steps of Athens and Rome we are seeking for government's, local and national, to pick up the tab. We have used the paper currency, that is without backing, to bring down the American empire. The resource are available to booster education but we no longer want to distribute the jobs available to accomplish this. Instead we look to government to create jobs and fund them with paper barter of exchange which is being used to buy up our final resources. Foreign interest are buy our homes and lands.
They can buy mine.