http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_on_re_us/us_tea_party_militia
OKLAHOMA CITY – Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.
Tea party movement leaders say they've discussed the idea with several supportive lawmakers and hope to get legislation next year to recognize a new volunteer force. They say the unit would not resemble militia groups that have been raided for allegedly plotting attacks on law enforcement officers.
"Is it scary? It sure is," said tea party leader Al Gerhart of Oklahoma City, who heads an umbrella group of tea party factions called the Oklahoma Constitutional Alliance. "But when do the states stop rolling over for the federal government?"
What is it with Oklahoma? Anti-intellectual? Makes Texas look normal. Move if you think you stand to prosper financially in this crazy place.
I don't get it.... What exactly would this militia do to defend against these "improper federal infringements on state sovereignty"? I assume they are talking about things like "Obamacare" for instance, so what would this militia do to "defend" against that? March in front of hospitals and insurance companies with bayonets? What are these federal infringements and how would a militia defend against them?
Just a bunch of guys wanting to play army. Nothing to see here, move along.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 13, 2010, 10:22:25 AM
Just a bunch of guys wanting to play army. Nothing to see here, move along.
Something similar to what German Jews said of the nazi movement in the late 1920's and early 1930's....
Thanks for the history lesson Conan.
If you think this "militia" is a good idea or something that will affect a change in any way shape or form:
YOU
ARE
INSANE
.
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over." - Hunter S. Thompson
Quote from: fotd on April 12, 2010, 05:36:04 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_on_re_us/us_tea_party_militia
They say the unit would not resemble militia groups that have been raided for allegedly plotting attacks on law enforcement officers.
Good. It's so hard to get white robes to match with anything.
Quote from: fotd on April 13, 2010, 11:59:57 AM
Something similar to what German Jews said of the nazi movement in the late 1920's and early 1930's....
Thanks for the history lesson Conan.
Except the opposite. The Nazis were extreme nationalist, and based their philosophy on empire building. American Militias are individualist and/or constitutionalist. Their philosophy, and basis of power is outlined in the constitution of the United States and it's strict interpretation.
This is nothing new. Militias already exist in most states and over history their power and visibility has waxed and waned. They mostly exist as a mythical threat against federal power. The media likes to drag them out from time to time, and various movements love to invoke the term.
I seriously doubt the viability of such groups in today's society. Even if such organizations began to gain power, they would have very little effect against the power of federal force. . .Perhaps back in the days of knives and flintlocks, but not today.
An effective militia today would consist more of lawyers than warriors.
What worries me is that a well supported candidate for Governor like Brogdon said he's "open to the idea"
Read up...stop posting that crud, Gaspar. Strict constitutionalists my a$$....more like little dicks, literally, that find the need to run a sidearm to cover for their lack of vibrancy.
http://www.splcenter.org/what-we-do/hate-and-extremism
"The Intelligence Project identified 512 "Patriot" groups that were active in 2009. Of these groups, 127 were militias, marked with an asterisk, and the remainder includes "common-law" courts, publishers, ministries and citizens' groups. Generally, Patriot groups define themselves as opposed to the "New World Order," engage in groundless conspiracy theorizing, or advocate or adhere to extreme antigovernment doctrines. Listing here does not imply that the groups themselves advocate or engage in violence or other criminal activities, or are racist. The list was compiled from field reports, Patriot publications, the Internet, law enforcement sources and news reports. Groups are identified by the city, county or region where they are located. "
I enjoy the fact that the Militia people who want to protect themselves from the Fed Gov. Vote for people that want to pour a crap ton of money in the military. Which would then be used to put down a militia if it came to it.
Quote from: fotd on April 13, 2010, 01:11:15 PM
Read up...stop posting that crud, Gaspar. Strict constitutionalists my a$$....more like little dicks, literally, that find the need to run a sidearm to cover for their lack of vibrancy.
http://www.splcenter.org/what-we-do/hate-and-extremism
"The Intelligence Project identified 512 "Patriot" groups that were active in 2009. Of these groups, 127 were militias, marked with an asterisk, and the remainder includes "common-law" courts, publishers, ministries and citizens' groups. Generally, Patriot groups define themselves as opposed to the "New World Order," engage in groundless conspiracy theorizing, or advocate or adhere to extreme antigovernment doctrines. Listing here does not imply that the groups themselves advocate or engage in violence or other criminal activities, or are racist. The list was compiled from field reports, Patriot publications, the Internet, law enforcement sources and news reports. Groups are identified by the city, county or region where they are located. "
I greatly enjoy your balanced point of view, and the fine sources you choose to post.
Are you being sarcastic?
Noam Chomsky, the leading leftwing intellectual, warned last week that fascism may be coming to the United States.
"I'm just old enough to have heard a number of Hitler's speeches on the radio," he said, "and I have a memory of the texture and the tone of the cheering mobs, and I have the dread sense of the dark clouds of fascism gathering" here at home."
Gassie, do you have this long of a tension span? (credit to Shadows)
He's losing it again.
Quick call Walgreens and get your scrip refilled!
(http://physicalsubculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/black_helicopters.jpg)
I think the word is script....short for scriptures. Many people worship their meds. You should know.
What's with the Holocaust origination denial, Conan?
Quote from: fotd on April 13, 2010, 03:33:19 PM
...do you have this long of a tension span? (credit to Shadows)
tension span? Is that the opposite of a compression span?
What's ironic is you have the unintelligent ones, like the tools in here at Tulsa Nerd, who seem to think this is a non issue or an issue to be humored. The fact is, it hurts us all.
How can you be pro Tulsa or pro Oklahoma or pro downtown and not realize the hypocrisy of the position by taking this issue lightly.Brogdon is done...it's much more than his "open to the idea" when he basically came out in full support of the idea.
Get real people. True patriots are beggining to hate what Oklahoma stands for.
"Tea party leader J.W. Berry of the Tulsa-based OKforTea began soliciting interest in a state militia through his newsletter under the subject "Buy more guns, more bullets." You all should be upset with this local cock sucker because he's hurting your city's image as well as he's fermenting hate. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/13/oklahoma-tea-party-plans_n_535412.html
You got this b!tch behind your manliness:
Alex, this cuntry's so far gone because of your ilk.
I'm not fearful nor am I paranoid. It takes courage to stand up to these McVeighites. Time to stand up for democracy. If you don't like what the elected officials are doing, vote them out. If you can't do that then leave our country Alex et al.
This is intolerance and revolutionary hate...you would never know it because you sh!t where you eat.
You still believe pot doesn't lead to paranoia? Try listening to and reading (and taking serious) Maddow conspiracies a whole lot less. Militias are nothing new, our nation, way of life, and patriotism owes itself to militias. You have the mistaken notion that a bunch of hillbillies are going to ride their tractors (or Hertz trucks) to town with long arms blazing tossing bombs at liberals.
It's a small minority of frustrated citizens saying: "You aren't listening!". They aren't going to overthrow the gov't.
Yet, you act like you are losing sleep over creepy white men over-running your Southern Hills Estate with guns drawn. You aren't intelligent, just a faux eliteist. Go back to Russia, bonehead. People like you admire the works of the "Weathermen". They thought they were some sort of patriots too. I guess that's different in your mind.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 13, 2010, 10:01:59 PM
You still believe pot doesn't lead to paranoia? Try listening to and reading (and taking serious) Maddow conspiracies a whole lot less. Militias are nothing new, our nation, way of life, and patriotism owes itself to militias. You have the mistaken notion that a bunch of hillbillies are going to ride their tractors (or Hertz trucks) to town with long arms blazing tossing bombs at liberals.
It's a small minority of frustrated citizens saying: "You aren't listening!". They aren't going to overthrow the gov't.
Yet, you act like you are losing sleep over creepy white men over-running your Southern Hills Estate with guns drawn. You aren't intelligent, just a faux eliteist. Go back to Russia, bonehead. People like you admire the works of the "Weathermen". They thought they were some sort of patriots too. I guess that's different in your mind.
You're a complete idiot. And an angry white man. Everything you say is a complete joke. Total hypocrisy.
Quote from: fotd on April 13, 2010, 10:06:41 PM
You're a complete idiot. And an angry white man. Everything you say is a complete joke. Total hypocrisy.
Who's the angry white man, Rip? You wouldn't know love & tolerance if it walked up and hugged you.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 13, 2010, 10:45:10 PM
Who's the angry white man, Rip? You wouldn't know love & tolerance if it walked up and hugged you.
You really need to cut out your personal attacks. It just proves you're chicken sh!t. You will not get replies from me in the future. I don't respond to idiots.
Quote from: fotd on April 13, 2010, 10:48:07 PM
You really need to cut out your personal attacks. It just proves you're chicken sh!t. You will not get replies from me in the future. I don't respond to idiots.
Cue the meltdown in 3...2...1
Come now, Hoss. The only meltdowns occurred when my personal info, such as passwords, were exchanged by the TNF insiders....
Using personal attacks is so idiotic. Don't you agree? Do you see the similarities between red necks and Oklahoma patriots? Lack of education? Lack of integrity?
fotd
You can do better than that. Don't use profanity as replacement for careful thought and careful crafting of the words.
As far as the Constitution, well, only Congress has the authority to establish militias (section 8), so by definition the whole concept is unconstitutional. Additionally, section 10 says "No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay."
So Oklahoma will definitely be breaking not just Federal law, but the actual words of the Constitution with this little trick. But then, who actually reads that thing...
Ok, but cs refers to a lack of integrity....underhandedness.
Thanks.
I like profanity as well as the next person, but it should be used judicially and sparingly.
Quote from: fotd on April 13, 2010, 11:12:16 PM
Come now, Hoss. The only meltdowns occurred when my personal info, such as passwords, were exchanged by the TNF insiders....
Oh, nooooo! FOTD has found me out as a TulsaNow insider and my dastardly plot to find out where he lives, drag him to the Obama death camps, and burn him up in the ovens!!! ::)
Ok. How's this....Oklahoma Patriot militia groups are comprised of a$$ holes.
Is that acceptable?
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on April 13, 2010, 11:20:40 PM
fotd
You can do better than that. Don't use profanity as replacement for careful thought and careful crafting of the words.
It's the currency of imbeciles. Quite fitting, really.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 13, 2010, 11:30:33 PM
It's the currency of imbeciles. Quite fitting, really.
You'd know.
Quote from: rwarn17588 on April 13, 2010, 11:28:32 PM
Oh, nooooo! FOTD has found me out as a TulsaNow insider and my dastardly plot to find out where he lives, drag him to the Obama death camps, and burn him up in the ovens!!! ::)
Worked in Red Fork for a couple of months back in 1970....still backwoodsy?
Several other states have long had official militias. It's a waste of time and money, but who am I to tell other people not to waste their time?
It's not a very fiscally conservative thing to fund, though..
Quote from: fotd on April 13, 2010, 11:29:29 PM
Ok. How's this....Oklahoma Patriot militia groups are comprised of a$$ holes.
Is that acceptable?
Come on FOTD, you're better than that. You're an intellectual elite.
Man, I missed the late evening meltdown.
Conan, you get any interesting PM's? Mine were delightful on his last one.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:zU5X3E1n8zklzM:http://www.district279.org/sec/nvjh/Group%25208%2520Website/patriots_wallpaper.jpg)
Quote from: Townsend on April 14, 2010, 08:49:24 AM
Man, I missed the late evening meltdown.
Conan, you get any interesting PM's? Mine were delightful on his last one.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:zU5X3E1n8zklzM:http://www.district279.org/sec/nvjh/Group%25208%2520Website/patriots_wallpaper.jpg)
Well well....look who has exited their hole....or are you just a shill for POMPUS CONANUS?
Quote from: fotd on April 14, 2010, 11:34:23 AM
Well well....look who has exited their hole....or are you just a shill for POMPUS CONANUS?
I suggest you take a look in the mirror and ask "What have I become?"
I expect a response from a lunatic with an ego problem who's taken a break from his meds.
POMPUS CONANUS
Is that a scientific name?
We should just let Brogdon secede from the union, with his militia in tow, and when he gets to where he's going we close the door real fast...
But seriously, does this not sound like the earliest days of Nationalist Socialism in the 1930's?
They were pretty much a joke at the time, too.
Quote from: patric on April 14, 2010, 12:48:01 PM
We should just let Brogdon secede from the union, with his militia in tow, and when he gets to where he's going we close the door real fast...
But seriously, does this not sound like the earliest days of Nationalist Socialism in the 1930's?
They were pretty much a joke at the time, too.
If you are referring to the militias as being Nationalist Socialism (Nazism anyone?) no. More like frontier America.
Sorry, can't vote for this:
(http://www.youdontsay.org/Freedomheroes/RandyBrogdon.gif)
Askins or Fallin, haven't made my mind up yet.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 14, 2010, 12:54:14 PM
If you are referring to the militias as being Nationalist Socialism (Nazism anyone?) no. More like frontier America.
Sorry, can't vote for this:
(http://www.youdontsay.org/Freedomheroes/RandyBrogdon.gif)
Askins or Fallin, haven't made my mind up yet.
I'm leaning toward Askins based on what I know about the two candidates, but I don't think she's done as good of a job at getting her name out there as Fallin has. Either way, I'd be surprised (and a little scared) if Brogdon beats Fallin.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 14, 2010, 12:54:14 PM
If you are referring to the militias as being Nationalist Socialism (Nazism anyone?) no. More like frontier America.
Sorry, can't vote for this:
(http://www.youdontsay.org/Freedomheroes/RandyBrogdon.gif)
Askins or Fallin, haven't made my mind up yet.
shudder. That pictures just reeks of creepiness for some reason.
Quote from: Hoss on April 14, 2010, 03:15:40 PM
shudder. That pictures just reeks of creepiness for some reason.
It must be the strategically draped Oklahoma flag...
Creepy? He looks like a goon. Wait a minute. He is a goon.
Quote from: fotd on April 12, 2010, 05:36:04 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_on_re_us/us_tea_party_militia
OKLAHOMA CITY – Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.
Tea party movement leaders say they've discussed the idea with several supportive lawmakers and hope to get legislation next year to recognize a new volunteer force. They say the unit would not resemble militia groups that have been raided for allegedly plotting attacks on law enforcement officers.
"Is it scary? It sure is," said tea party leader Al Gerhart of Oklahoma City, who heads an umbrella group of tea party factions called the Oklahoma Constitutional Alliance. "But when do the states stop rolling over for the federal government?"
What is it with Oklahoma? Anti-intellectual? Makes Texas look normal. Move if you think you stand to prosper financially in this crazy place.
I see no problem with it, they have a constitutional right to form a militia. So screw the anti-2nd amendment loons who wish to demonize those who exercise their 2nd amendment constitutional rights. I know lets demonize free speech because of a few code pink loons or demonize freedom of religion because of a few Muslim terrorist.
Quote from: Gaspar on April 15, 2010, 08:38:44 AM
Wacko's on parade . . .
I guess anyone who is against the war must be like these wackos since we want to use a few bad apples to demonize everyone who shares similar views.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-march-10-2008/marines-in-berkeley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps
Quote from: Gaspar on April 15, 2010, 08:38:44 AM
Wacko's on parade . . .
That dude rolls a tight joint
Quote from: Conan71 on April 15, 2010, 08:52:19 AM
That dude rolls a tight joint
That's the difference between right-wing and left-wing wackos. . . joint tension.
Quote from: Gaspar on April 15, 2010, 09:07:53 AM
That's the difference between right-wing and left-wing wackos. . . joint tension.
Plus the relative level of the threat of violence.
Left wing protesters have limited themselves to vandalism for something like the last 40 years. The right wing guys, however, really seem to like to get their death-threat on. They also seem to like to plan for ways to bring down the apocalypse with super complex bombing threats (cf. Hutarees!), or to attack -- with varying degrees of success -- federal office buildings.
Quote from: we vs us on April 15, 2010, 09:18:54 AM
Plus the relative level of the threat of violence.
Left wing protesters have limited themselves to vandalism for something like the last 40 years. The right wing guys, however, really seem to like to get their death-threat on. They also seem to like to plan for ways to bring down the apocalypse with super complex bombing threats (cf. Hutarees!), or to attack -- with varying degrees of success -- federal office buildings.
Yeah, because everyone knows bombing the NYPD and the Pentagon bombings, fire bombing a judges house, and declaring war on the US Government by the leftist Weathermen were just pranks and simple vandalism.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 15, 2010, 09:58:05 AM
Yeah, because everyone knows bombing the NYPD and the Pentagon bombings, fire bombing a judges house, and declaring war on the US Government by the leftist Weathermen were just pranks and simple vandalism.
Haven't seen any Tea Party violence. I'm interested as to what that will look like. I hope that the various security organizations are searching those fanny packs and sport coats before each rally. Who knows how much C4 you can smuggle in a Mont Blanc.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 15, 2010, 09:58:05 AM
Yeah, because everyone knows bombing the NYPD and the Pentagon bombings, fire bombing a judges house, and declaring war on the US Government by the leftist Weathermen were just pranks and simple vandalism.
I thought they also killed a cop in San Francisco in one of their harmless, non-getting "their death threat on" bombings. Countdown until we hear: "Well yeah, but the right wingers are worse and the Weathermen are just one example" 3...2...1
The Weathermen from the 60's?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/ba/WEATHERUNDERGROUND3.jpg/250px-WEATHERUNDERGROUND3.jpg)
Quote from: Townsend on April 15, 2010, 10:59:21 AM
The Weathermen from the 60's?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/ba/WEATHERUNDERGROUND3.jpg/250px-WEATHERUNDERGROUND3.jpg)
No, these guys and gals. Though to be totally PC they are "meteorologists" these days:
(http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/files/2010/01/WEATHER.png)
Quote from: Conan71 on April 15, 2010, 11:12:38 AM
No, these guys and gals. Though to be totally PC they are "meteorologists" these days:
(http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/files/2010/01/WEATHER.png)
I actually prefer just one:
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/y7GXGt1end4/0.jpg)
Quote from: Conan71 on April 15, 2010, 11:12:38 AM
No, these guys and gals. Though to be totally PC they are "meteorologists" these days:
(http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/files/2010/01/WEATHER.png)
Wait....
Is it just me, or is the female meteorologist toward the top right wearing a rather sheer top?
Quote from: Conan71 on April 15, 2010, 11:20:14 AM
Wait....
Is it just me, or is the female meteorologist toward the top right wearing a rather sheer top?
That's how you know if it's going to be cold. :-X
Quote from: guido911 on April 15, 2010, 10:18:11 AM
I thought they also killed a cop in San Francisco in one of their harmless, non-getting "their death threat on" bombings. Countdown until we hear: "Well yeah, but the right wingers are worse and the Weathermen are just one example" 3...2...1
Tell you what, you get over the 60s, and we'll get over Reagan, k?
Love it Nate!
It's the culture war....
Here:http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/culture-wars-take-our-country-back.html
Latest culture war in America:
Nationalism in dangerous form
Many fear that they have lost the country that was bequeathed to them -- and to them alone -- like an old pocket watch from their grandfather.
By Leonard Zeskind / The Rag Blog / April 12, 2010
At first glance it seems inexplicable: Confederate battle flags waving in Washington state and Washington, D.C., when the issue is health care.
Placards that read, "America is a Christian Nation," appearing in marches when the stated concern is the federal deficit.
Barack Obama labeled a "Lying African," when presidents from Democrat Woodrow Wilson to Republican George H.W. Bush have raised taxes without being dubbed aliens.
Where does the anger come from to call congressmen hateful names?
The answer resides inside the tea party anthem -- oft-repeated since the protests on Capitol Hill last September -- "Take Our Country Back." Many fear that they have lost the country that was bequeathed to them -- and to them alone -- like an old pocket watch from their grandfather.
Theirs is a patriotism in which the common good devolves down to the individual privileges of property and wealth. It is a nationalism in which race is implicit, rather than explicit.
The crowds singing "Take It Back" might be all white, but when a black or brown face shows up it is welcomed as a sign of the "non-racial" character of their all-white cause.
From this medium of contradictory beliefs about "real Americans" and inglorious fears of "dispossession" has sprung a movement that is still developing and has not yet reached its final form.
Certainly, there are coldly dispassionate ideologues in this mix:
The conservative Republican operatives who train these new activists to become the foot soldiers for the party's election campaigns.
The Ayn Rand libertarians who conflate Keynes with Marx, and a capitalist welfare state with socialism.
The old-line segregationists who regard every piece of federal civil rights law as an abrogation of states' rights.
The hard core white nationalists who join the tea party movement hoping to convert its implicit whiteness into an explicit and coherent racism.
By themselves, these highly defined political strands are not strong enough to challenge the status quo. Intertwined with each other and with the chaotic mix of passions described above, however, the tea party movement has proven more powerful than expected.
It has transformed the political discourse and has systematically defied common-sense explanations.
While the tea parties have emerged during a period of economic distress, and unemployed job seekers are certainly in their midst, polling data tells us for the most part these people are not suffering financially themselves. According to a CNN survey in February, a full 66 percent of "tea party activists" said they made more than $50,000 a year.
Neither is this some form of populism, similar to the revolt by 19th century farmers. In this instance, the opposition to political and economic elites is predicated on the supposition that those at the "top" are using their power to serve those at the bottom, at the expense of those in the middle.
This is a form of Middle American nationalism more akin to that expressed by Gov. George Wallace's 1968 presidential campaign than to the rarified blue-blood conservatism of William Buckley.
In the end, tea partiers are not engaged in a civil discussion with fellow Americans about public policy. Rather they are fighting a culture war against people they regard as enemies. The questions are whose America is the "real" America, and whether our society will remain open and democratic.
That is a decision all of us must make.
[Leonard Zeskind, author of Blood and Politics: The History of the White Nationalist Movement from the Margins to the Mainstream, is president of the Institute for Research and Education on Human Rights. Zeskind blogs at www.leonardzeskind.com/. This article was also published by the Kansas City Star.]
"Oh the places FOTD goes"
(http://bradon2u.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/oh-the-places-youll-go1.jpg)
Quote from: Conan71 on April 15, 2010, 09:58:05 AM
Yeah, because everyone knows bombing the NYPD and the Pentagon bombings, fire bombing a judges house, and declaring war on the US Government by the leftist Weathermen were just pranks and simple vandalism.
Right. Like I said. 40 years ago.
Quote from: we vs us on April 16, 2010, 03:27:46 PM
Right. Like I said. 40 years ago.
Or a full generation ago ... back when Republicans supported civil-rights legislation more than Democrats.
Needless to say, things have changed since then.
Quote from: we vs us on April 16, 2010, 03:27:46 PM
Right. Like I said. 40 years ago.
That sure makes me feel better. OKC was 15 years ago, what's your point?
The guy who flew his plane into the IRS building in Austin was an anti-government nutbag. There's nothing to suggest he was a far right wing idealogist and I've never read what his voter registration was. From what I've read, his manifesto he left behind was rather anti-conservative other than his whole hatred of the IRS. It was more a rampage killing like one of the school yard shootings.
Quote from: rwarn17588 on April 16, 2010, 04:13:22 PM
Or a full generation ago ... back when Republicans supported civil-rights legislation more than Democrats.
Needless to say, things have changed since then.
What CRL's do Republicans oppose these days?
Quote from: Conan71 on April 16, 2010, 04:35:44 PM
That sure makes me feel better. OKC was 15 years ago, what's your point?
The guy who flew his plane into the IRS building in Austin was an anti-government nutbag. There's nothing to suggest he was a far right wing idealogist and I've never read what his voter registration was. From what I've read, his manifesto he left behind was rather anti-conservative other than his whole hatred of the IRS. It was more a rampage killing like one of the school yard shootings.
There's plenty to suggest he was a far right wing ideologist. I think you are wrong, PC.
Quote from: we vs us on April 16, 2010, 03:27:46 PM
Right. Like I said. 40 years ago.
Bad Logic.
Viet Nam, advisors in the 50s, big time involvement from the mid 60s. Long time ago.
Watergate, 38 yrs ago
Tulsa Race Riots, over 80 yrs ago
The biggie, slavery, over 140 yrs ago.
Quote from: Red Arrow on April 16, 2010, 08:21:47 PM
Bad Logic.
Viet Nam, advisors in the 50s, big time involvement from the mid 60s. Long time ago.
Watergate, 38 yrs ago
Tulsa Race Riots, over 80 yrs ago
The biggie, slavery, over 140 yrs ago.
And . . . so . . . what? I'm not sure what that list is supposed to tell me.
The left was violent 40 years ago. Since the Weathermen went away, there's been virtually no domestic anything from the left -- aside from vandalism perpetrated by PETA and eco-radicals -- to indicate that the threat continues.
The radical right is a whole different ball of wax. It's like they just time-warped in from 1996. It's creepy.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 16, 2010, 04:36:11 PM
What CRL's do Republicans oppose these days?
Pretty much the entire raft of gay rights initiatives, for starters.
Quote from: Red Arrow on April 16, 2010, 08:21:47 PM
Bad Logic.
Viet Nam, advisors in the 50s, big time involvement from the mid 60s. Long time ago.
Watergate, 38 yrs ago
Tulsa Race Riots, over 80 yrs ago
The biggie, slavery, over 140 yrs ago.
I'm not sure what your point is, other than times and people change, which I've already reiterated.
Quote from: we vs us on April 16, 2010, 08:48:08 PM
Pretty much the entire raft of gay rights initiatives, for starters.
Yep. +1
Quote from: nathanm on April 15, 2010, 01:11:16 PM
Tell you what, you get over the 60s, and we'll get over Reagan, k?
LOL. Post of the week. :D
I thought you were saying time erases bad deeds. I neglected to realize that time only erases bad deeds from one perspective.
Quote from: Red Arrow on April 16, 2010, 10:41:49 PM
I thought you were saying time erases bad deeds. I neglected to realize that time only erases bad deeds from one perspective.
I'm not excusing anything. I'm talking about whether those past bad deeds amount to current threats. It's pretty obvious that for the American left, the answer is no.
Quote from: Red Arrow on April 16, 2010, 08:21:47 PM
The biggie, slavery, over 140 yrs ago.
Not that I was around to see it, but interestingly, just after the Civil War, during Reconstruction, the former slaves were a lot better off than they were by 1880-1890. White people hadn't yet thought up poll taxes, literacy tests, and other bunkum designed to keep black people away from the polls, so there were a lot more black people in elected government, thus significantly better conditions. People just hadn't gotten as virulently racist outside the context of slavery, yet.
Most history texts gloss over the backsliding there.
Quote from: nathanm on April 17, 2010, 08:25:05 AM
Not that I was around to see it, but interestingly, just after the Civil War, during Reconstruction, the former slaves were a lot better off than they were by 1880-1890. White people hadn't yet thought up poll taxes, literacy tests, and other bunkum designed to keep black people away from the polls, so there were a lot more black people in elected government, thus significantly better conditions. People just hadn't gotten as virulently racist outside the context of slavery, yet.
Most history texts gloss over the backsliding there.
Yes. I read the book "Sundown Towns," and black civil rights took huge steps backwards after about 1890 or so and ushered in two generations of Jim Crow laws. No one is quite sure why the Republicans in Congress just up and quit being advocates for black civil rights about 1890, but it happened. Once that occurred, the Jim Crow South arose and did pretty much whatever it wanted.
And there were literally hundreds of towns across the Midwest where black people were not allowed to remain after sundown. These whites-only towns persisted well into the 1970s and even the '80s.
Quote from: we vs us on April 16, 2010, 08:48:08 PM
Pretty much the entire raft of gay rights initiatives, for starters.
I keep forgetting about that. I guess it's fair trade for Dims not supporting the civil rights of unborn homosexuals and heterosexuals.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 17, 2010, 11:02:15 AM
I keep forgetting about that. I guess it's fair trade for Dims not supporting the civil rights of unborn homosexuals and heterosexuals.
POMPOUS CONANUS, your posts are getting too,.....shall we say, religulous?
Quote from: nathanm on April 17, 2010, 08:25:05 AM
Not that I was around to see it, but interestingly, just after the Civil War, during Reconstruction, the former slaves were a lot better off than they were by 1880-1890. White people hadn't yet thought up poll taxes, literacy tests, and other bunkum designed to keep black people away from the polls, so there were a lot more black people in elected government, thus significantly better conditions.
Not so much elected, but "installed" under Reconstruction to rub the south's nose in their defeat.
Lincoln's intent was to be forgiving and get the country back to normal but that enraged the military leaders that were intent on retribution.
They got their way under the corruption and ineptitude of Grant.
:D I love me some Tea Party people. Somebody a picture of a Reagan pin on facebook. I asked how you could be for the tea party and support Reagan given that he increased the US Debt 300%. They told me that the Tea Party only cares about paying less tax and not about spending. How he was against socialism. Fortunately they didn't like me telling them to check out the earned income tax credit expansion in 1986 so they unfriended me.
Quote from: patric on April 17, 2010, 12:37:33 PM
Not so much elected, but "installed" under Reconstruction to rub the south's nose in their defeat.
While it is true Lincoln never intended for Reconstruction to happen in the way it did, the blacks that were elected to government posts weren't installed, they were duly elected. Whether that was due to white Southerners boycotting the elections during Reconstruction, I can't say.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 17, 2010, 11:02:15 AM
I keep forgetting about that. I guess it's fair trade for Dims not supporting the civil rights of unborn homosexuals and heterosexuals.
Well, you gotta draw the line somewhere, and "at conception" makes no sense biologically, since over 80% of early pregnancies end in a spontaneous abortion in the first few months (if the zygote implants at all). Whatcha gonna do?
Quote from: nathanm on April 17, 2010, 01:37:19 PM
Well, you gotta draw the line somewhere, and "at conception" makes no sense biologically, since over 80% of early pregnancies end in a spontaneous abortion in the first few months (if the zygote implants at all). Whatcha gonna do?
While I'm against abortion as a principle, I'm for the woman's right to choose.
I should rephrase. My personal opinion is against abortion, but since I'm not a woman, it's not my call. The woman has to make that ultimate choice.
So Conan, it's not the Dems keeping the civil rights from unborn children, it's them giving the right to the women to make that choice.
We shouldn't legislate the human body, regardless of what your moral or religious views are. The woman has to live with the decision. Doctors aren't being forced to perform these procedures unless it's to preserve the life of the mother.
Republican's in general don't want to pay for other peoples kids (as they shouldn't). But then they don't want people to have the option of not having a child they can't pay for . So basically, they want children to live in poverty because their parents (probably) suck. Whats the answer? You could take the kids away based on income level of the parents and re appropriate them to families with higher income. Then that would reduce the increased welfare that is under the current system.
What do we do with the aftermath if abortions are banned?
Quote from: Trogdor on April 17, 2010, 02:13:07 PM
What do we do with the aftermath if abortions are banned?
vasectomy coupons. That'll work great.
Quote from: Hoss on April 17, 2010, 01:54:45 PM
So Conan, it's not the Dems keeping the civil rights from unborn children, it's them giving protecting the right to of the women to make that choice.
Fixed that for you. ;)
A person has an inherent right to control their own body, in my estimation. When there is some method of removing an unborn zygote/fetus/whatever from a woman with no detrimental health effects and keeping it alive for the rest of its gestation period, my opinion will probably change. Until that time I'm no more interested in forcing a woman to undergo a dangerous pregnancy (and all of them are!) than I am in forcing any person to have any medical procedure they consider too high a risk.
Edited to add: Can I make an impassioned plea to discussion board software developers to please utilize, or at least recognize the long established HTML names for text decoration like strikethrough?
Just so long as you guys are able to spin it to your own satisfaction with the civil rights of the unborn, I'm good with that if it helps you sleep better. Amazing that libs can be more concerned about proper habitat for things like bird & fish eggs to thrive than human zygotes. Then there's the whole backlash against Christians coming out of the liberal movement...
Let's face it no one is totally in tune with civil rights for all people across the board. You simply can't make generic statements that either party is more for or against "civil rights".
And FWIW if homosexuals want to experience the misery of marriage- have at it.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 17, 2010, 04:23:54 PM
And FWIW if homosexuals want to experience the misery of marriage- have at it.
gay marriage? Haven't they suffered enough?
If homosexuals only marry homosexuals, would that be genocide?
Quote from: Conan71 on April 17, 2010, 04:23:54 PM
Then there's the whole backlash against Christians coming out of the liberal movement...
Please elaborate. I'm not following.
Sheeesh Conatholic, just because you were over indoctrinated doesn't mean the rest the country has to believe in that batsh!t nonsense. Learn to live with the fact that a fetus can't make choices and therefore has no civil rights.
Quote from: rwarn17588 on April 17, 2010, 08:36:48 AM
Yes. I read the book "Sundown Towns," and black civil rights took huge steps backwards after about 1890 or so and ushered in two generations of Jim Crow laws. No one is quite sure why the Republicans in Congress just up and quit being advocates for black civil rights about 1890, but it happened. Once that occurred, the Jim Crow South arose and did pretty much whatever it wanted.
And there were literally hundreds of towns across the Midwest where black people were not allowed to remain after sundown. These whites-only towns persisted well into the 1970s and even the '80s.
Many of Tulsans can remember after the riot of '21 a black person could not be present after sundown South of the RR tracks in South Tulsa unless he wore a red tag on a string around his neck.
As there is an increasing of the minority who in a short time are to become the majority within the next decades it would seem the "tea parties" could be a door opening to save the American way of life. The simple constitution written by very patriotic men has been change to embrace millions of interpretations whereas someone should stand up for the intent gained by the right to self government.
Quote from: shadows on April 18, 2010, 09:50:02 PM
Many of Tulsans can remember after the riot of '21 a black person could not be present after sundown South of the RR tracks in South Tulsa unless he wore a red tag on a string around his neck.
As there is an increasing of the minority who in a short time are to become the majority within the next decades it would seem the "tea parties" could be a door opening to save the American way of life. The simple constitution written by very patriotic men has been change to embrace millions of interpretations whereas someone should stand up for the intent gained by the right to self government.
Shadows. You do realize what ever you're doing.....you must share!
Seriously. You do realize that's totally bigoted?
Quote from: Conan71 on April 17, 2010, 11:02:15 AM
I keep forgetting about that. I guess it's fair trade for Dims not supporting the civil rights of unborn homosexuals and heterosexuals.
You keep forgetting about the civil rights of women and the choices some of them have to make as the result of an unwanted pregnancy.
Government should not be involved in these heart wrenching decisions.
It should be a choice that involves the woman, her family/friends, her doctors, and her own religious beliefs, whatever they may be.... and it should never involve the use of a coat hanger....
That, I thought, was the true LIBERTARIAN position on abortion.
If you hate abortion, convince women not to choose to have them.
Go figure how that's a "Dims" position...... wasn't always that way.
Quote from: shadows on April 18, 2010, 09:50:02 PM
Many of Tulsans can remember after the riot of '21 a black person could not be present after sundown South of the RR tracks in South Tulsa unless he wore a red tag on a string around his neck.
As there is an increasing of the minority who in a short time are to become the majority within the next decades it would seem the "tea parties" could be a door opening to save the American way of life. The simple constitution written by very patriotic men has been change to embrace millions of interpretations whereas someone should stand up for the intent gained by the right to self government.
Saving the American way of life?...... more like saving your own "special rights," if you ask me.... I drove by the fairgrounds "tea party" and it looked like a rally for Sean Hannity/KRMG and the Tulsa GOP. Randy Brogdon signs everywhere....
The Real Tea Party Movement -- Speaking The Language of Self-Interest http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-b-laskoff/the-real-tea-party-moveme_b_542128.html
Quote1. Not A Tax Revolt. Federal taxes have not been lower at any time in the past fifty years; 47% of Americans don't pay any federal taxes at all. No one likes taxation, but it has been many generations since anyone has had less reason to complain.
2. Not Opposed to Big Government. The Tea Party movement generally favors Social Security, Medicare and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The first two are positively socialist, and supporting nation building does not qualify as libertarian. Big government is fine when it works for them.
3. Not Inclusive. According to a New York Times/CBS Poll released last week, "...Tea Party supporters tend to be Republican, white, male, married and older than 45..." 90% of those polled think that Obama is a socialist; nearly one in five believe that he was not born in the US. Many also think that he's a cryto-Muslim. And the movement's 'ideological' leaders -- e.g., Anne Coulter, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck -- all share a very pale skin color, as well as a incoherent demagoguery.
Rhetoric aside, the real purpose of the Tea Party movement is clear: prevent the sort of change that might threaten the privileges traditionally enjoyed by middle aged, white Republicans. These are the people who feel that the 'real' America is under assault by the poor, people of color, gay Americans and all immigrants. They wrap themselves in the rhetoric of tradition, democracy and tradition, but they are just elites trying to find an acceptable language with which to defend their fear and self interest.
Unfortunately, "Securing Our Self Interest At Your Expense," isn't much of a campaign slogan. And so, we talk about Tea Parties instead.
Amen, brother. Amen.
Not a backlash against Christians - it is a backlash against bigotry, intolerance, racism, hatred, none of which are Christian values that I was taught growing up. (Anyone actually read the teachings of Jesus lately??)
Like the newly resurgent John Birch Society (JBS). (Kind of like a political arm of the KKK...) Born in anti-Communist rantings and ravings and bigotry and racism of the old South, working actively against ALL civil rights activities, like allowing blacks to vote... Well, Communism actually never really existed - all "Communist" countries were just variations on plain old standard dictatorships.
And this group was co-founded by Fred Koch of Koch Industries.
Add the racism and bigotry JBS espouses, well, that just ain't right. Oops, I guess it IS right, it is just wrong!
Are those the family values you teach your kids?
Is that how you want them to grow up?
If so, then you should be thrilled that Randy Brogdon is such an enthusiastic member and advocate of those "virtues" as a member of the KKK, er uh, John Birch Society.
How sad.
WWJD??
That's the result of gold paint, not lead paint....
Quote from: Conan71 on April 19, 2010, 03:31:43 PM
That's the result of gold paint, not lead paint....
I thought this was the result of gold paint?
(http://70.84.248.232/station_files/jockitem__1153775493.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2770/4148932538_c77fb6c62d_o.jpg)
(http://www.tulsaoilerfans.com/images/paint.jpg)
Couldn't resist it...
Quote from: Hoss on April 19, 2010, 04:17:31 PM
(http://www.tulsaoilerfans.com/images/paint.jpg)
Couldn't resist it...
Friggin' awesome...
It is most disturbing to find the City Legal Department declaring it has no one with expertise in civil rights and must hire outsiders against a sustained charge of the very entity's employees abusing those rights they have sworn to uphold as quoted in today's TW. Patriotism is not to be defined except to the allegiance one depends on from the ruling forces they expect and depend on for their security. Law schools are not noted for issuing diploma's for fields of expertise. Like the Tea Partiers sufficient cause exist to redo the mistakes we have made and resort to those qualified to perform efficiently those obligations employees are paid for.