http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=16&articleid=20100325_16_A1_Atacos498003&allcom=1
City Councilor Jim Mautino said he had received complaints from constituents regarding six mobile food trailers. He said he was concerned about food safety and the city's ability to collect sales taxes.
"This is Third World stuff," he said. "When people come here we assimilate them (new residents of the country) into our lifestyle and our politics; it's not the other way around. "
I really don't mind the taco wagons.
I think it adds some cultural flavor and diversity to the community. I buy food off them on occasion and we had a vendor bring us some totally kick-butt beef sandwiches from one for lunch today.
I do think like any other business, they need to be complying with all city codes and collecting and remitting proper sales tax as well. Mautino probably didn't gain any votes toward re-election from the Hispanic community with that quote, however.
One of the first things that comes to mind here is in order to enforce this code in this way it would have to apply to ALL mobile (or open air) vendors that remain at a locatin for an extended period of time (they are making that distiction because of the lunch wagon trucks.) That would include vedors at fairs and other events, unless the events are acquiring special permits to allow it. However, from what I'm gathering from the article, the city ordinance does not prohibit these vendors, nor does it specify that they need a license. It seems that they are really twisting it to make it apply specifically to these hispanic, mobile vendors.
Of course it would be Mautino at the head of this charge since most of these wagons tend to sit in his district. I see them daily in parking lots around area's of Garnett between 21st and 41st. I've even seen them parked in the lot directly behind my house.
IMO I think they should be held to the same standard as the vendors that work events like the fair. They are inspected regularly by the health department, and it seems that those inspections are held to a higher standard then a normal restraunt. If not the same standard as the special events, then the wagons that go from job to job at lunch time should be held to the same standards as these that have their prefered spots to park. In any case, the ordinances need to be clear on this point, and not bend existing laws to fit the desires of the council.
I share councilor Mautino's concern's about health and permitting. I love the taco stand at 22nd and Garnett, but I also feel like a gambler every time I eat from there.
I don't agree with INCOG that the best way to permit these is through six-month exemption permits. Most of the ones I see were there most of the year and it would be foolish to make a year-round business pay a permitting fee and go through board approval twice-a-year.
Surely there is another way to allow these while not sacrificing the ability to regulate them.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on March 25, 2010, 01:14:45 PM
I share councilor Mautino's concern's about health and permitting. I love the taco stand at 22nd and Garnett, but I also feel like a gambler every time I eat from there.
They are already inspected by the health department... What exactly are your concerns and how would a special exemption do anything more to ease them?
I think they are but if not they need to be complying with all city codes and collecting and remitting proper sales tax. All of the ones I've eaten at in the 21st and Garnett area have been great! I think they are great at adding some cultural flavor and diversity. If people haven't tried them, they need to.
"City Councilor Jim Mautino said he had received complaints from constituents regarding six mobile food trailers. He said he was concerned about food safety and the city's ability to collect sales taxes."
I have a feeling these constituents complaining are also ones who'd never eat food from one of these food trailers to begin with.
I'm sure their reasoning for complaining is purely altruistic and made with the utmost concern for gastrointestinal health of the patrons.
It's obvious that the Hispanics in this City need legitimate representation, b/c with this guy they aren't getting it.
It's sickening how this outright racism is tolerated. Hopefully it won't be next time election comes around.
Maybe we should look at how California municipalities or how NYC deals with street vender's. Any new rules, or reworking of old rules should make it easier for businesses to do business and make it safer for consumers.
That said, to call a vending truck or cart third world is silly, I would venture a guess that City Councilor Jim Mautino hasn't done much traveling.
Quote from: PepePeru on March 25, 2010, 01:45:47 PM
"City Councilor Jim Mautino said he had received complaints from constituents regarding six mobile food trailers. He said he was concerned about food safety and the city's ability to collect sales taxes."
I have a feeling these constituents complaining are also ones who'd never eat food from one of these food trailers to begin with.
I'm sure their reasoning for complaining is purely altruistic and made with the utmost concern for gastrointestinal health of the patrons.
It's obvious that the Hispanics in this City need legitimate representation, b/c with this guy they aren't getting it.
It's sickening how this outright racism is tolerated. Hopefully it won't be next time election comes around.
How can you interpret this as "outright" racism? I'm sure there are some knuckleheads who complain based on this, but on the other hand, how do you know it's not simply people wanting to make sure that health, tax, vendor, and building codes are being followed? Or perhaps nearby Hispanic brick and mortar business owners who are worried about unfair competition? That ever dawn on you?
I don't know why assimilation or the fear of 'reverse assimilation' LOL would have a place in the conversation if it had nothing to do with the predominant race of the vendors.
Health - seems the health department is already on that
Taxes - ok, I don't fully understand the tax requirements for these vendors, how about the vendors at the fairgrounds or other vendors - unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the primary motivation to look into this
building codes - are you serious? I was considering buying a travel trailer - do I need to get a building inspector involved?
Quote from: Conan71 on March 25, 2010, 02:39:31 PM
How can you interpret this as "outright" racism? I'm sure there are some knuckleheads who complain based on this, but on the other hand, how do you know it's not simply people wanting to make sure that health, tax, vendor, and building codes are being followed? Or perhaps nearby Hispanic brick and mortar business owners who are worried about unfair competition? That ever dawn on you?
"This is Third World stuff," he said. "When people come here we assimilate them (new residents of the country) into our lifestyle and our politics; it's not the other way around. "
by 'lifestyle and politics' he's just referring to building codes and food safety, right?
So, tell me, how else is a comment like that to be interpreted?
As another poster said, maybe it would do Mautino some good and leave the comfort of his East Tulsa home and experience real "Third World stuff"
Quote from: Conan71 on March 25, 2010, 02:39:31 PM
How can you interpret this as "outright" racism? I'm sure there are some knuckleheads who complain based on this, but on the other hand, how do you know it's not simply people wanting to make sure that health, tax, vendor, and building codes are being followed? Or perhaps nearby Hispanic brick and mortar business owners who are worried about unfair competition? That ever dawn on you?
I agree that you can't assign automatic racist motivations to the complainers, I would even question if he's really had complaints.
But when you complain about the street vendors by saying this:
Quote
"This is Third World stuff," he said. "When people come here we assimilate them (new residents of the country) into our lifestyle and our politics; it's not the other way around.
"And it seems to me like what's happening is we're being assimilated."
He's being plainly racist.
You haven't lived until you've had tamales from one of the women who drive the old beat up station wagons and sell to the construction workers in the S. Tulsa neighborhoods.
They've been doing this for years. I think they all work for the same woman. $1 a tamale, and they're out of this world. Served in the husk.
You can usually find them between 9am and 11am anywhere in S. Tulsa/BA/Bixby/Jenks where there's new construction. They usually have the spicy "relish" (pickled carrots and peppers) too.
Quote from: PepePeru on March 25, 2010, 03:29:56 PM
"This is Third World stuff," he said. "When people come here we assimilate them (new residents of the country) into our lifestyle and our politics; it's not the other way around. "
by 'lifestyle and politics' he's just referring to building codes and food safety, right?
So, tell me, how else is a comment like that to be interpreted?
As another poster said, maybe it would do Mautino some good and leave the comfort of his East Tulsa home and experience real "Third World stuff"
I didn't realize you were referring to Mautino's comment, I thought you were talking about the "complainers". I can better see the relevance of your comment based on that. Thanks for the correction.
Quote from: Gaspar on March 25, 2010, 03:40:38 PM
You haven't lived until you've had tamales from one of the women who drive the old beat up station wagons and sell to the construction workers in the S. Tulsa neighborhoods.
They've been doing this for years. I think they all work for the same woman. $1 a tamale, and they're out of this world. Served in the husk.
You can usually find them between 9am and 11am anywhere in S. Tulsa/BA/Bixby/Jenks where there's new construction. They usually have the spicy "relish" (pickled carrots and peppers) too.
Actually, I like to get my tamales from the little mexican guy in the walmart parking lot walking around with a cooler. Same premise though, and great. I'm always telling people that if they see this guy they should buy some.
Quote from: Gaspar on March 25, 2010, 03:40:38 PM
You haven't lived until you've had tamales from one of the women who drive the old beat up station wagons and sell to the construction workers in the S. Tulsa neighborhoods.
They've been doing this for years. I think they all work for the same woman. $1 a tamale, and they're out of this world. Served in the husk.
You can usually find them between 9am and 11am anywhere in S. Tulsa/BA/Bixby/Jenks where there's new construction. They usually have the spicy "relish" (pickled carrots and peppers) too.
I bought a steamer at Los Americas specifically to make tamales last weekend. I've got a long way to go, but for a first attempt, I was pretty happy. We had some tamales at Blue Corn Cafe in Santa Fe a few weeks ago when passing through and those were the best I've had anywhere.
FYI, I also got a tip on a Mexican bakery near 61st & Peoria today. I'll report back once I've had a chance to check out the offerings.
Please share the tamale hook-ups. I've been needing one it Tulsa for years. I have been dry ice packing from my trips to South Texas every year or two. My mother has taken it on a handful of times, but defers to other family as the experts. Tamales are a LOT of work, I feel guilty paying so little for them at times. If you've ever made them, you know they are a fast track to arthritis. My fingers ache for days.
Quote from: jne on March 25, 2010, 03:57:38 PM
Please share the tamale hook-ups. I've been needing one it Tulsa for years. I have been dry ice packing from my trips to South Texas every year or two. My mother has taken it on a handful of times, but defers to other family as the experts. Tamales are a LOT of work, I feel guilty paying so little for them at times. If you've ever made them, you know they are a fast track to arthritis. My fingers ache for days.
Resposado is good for arthritis brought on by tamale rolling ;)
Quote from: Conan71 on March 25, 2010, 03:50:00 PM
I bought a steamer at Los Americas specifically to make tamales last weekend. I've got a long way to go, but for a first attempt, I was pretty happy. We had some tamales at Blue Corn Cafe in Santa Fe a few weeks ago when passing through and those were the best I've had anywhere.
FYI, I also got a tip on a Mexican bakery near 61st & Peoria today. I'll report back once I've had a chance to check out the offerings.
If it's the one at about 63rd, it's really good.
Quote from: jne on March 25, 2010, 03:57:38 PM
Please share the tamale hook-ups. I've been needing one it Tulsa for years. I have been dry ice packing from my trips to South Texas every year or two. My mother has taken it on a handful of times, but defers to other family as the experts. Tamales are a LOT of work, I feel guilty paying so little for them at times. If you've ever made them, you know they are a fast track to arthritis. My fingers ache for days.
I'll buy a dozen next time I see one of them, and send out a TN alert. We can have a picnic.
Quote from: Gaspar on March 25, 2010, 04:09:06 PM
I'll buy a dozen next time I see one of them, and send out a TN alert. We can have a picnic.
just a dozen? Isn't that kind of lowballing it? Maybe send out an announcement of where you see him at.
Making these taco trucks get a 6 month zoning variance strikes me as killing a fly with a shotgun and is consistent with the perception that Tulsa government is unfriendly towards businesses.
If there is a problem created by this new style of business, then adopt some rules to eliminate the problem, don't try to force this into Tulsa's existing zoning code.
I've tried food at several trucks on 11th, 3rd and 1st around Lewis. All had good food and the owners were very pleasant. Of course, if I was next door paying rent to operate a Mexican restaurant, I might feel differently.
Quote"City Councilor Jim Mautino said he had received complaints from constituents regarding six mobile food trailers. He said he was concerned about food safety and the city's ability to collect sales taxes."
If anything, the pressure could drive these mom-and-pop businesses underground, and where would your health inspections and tax collection go from there?
Does the city really require 3 sinks (like one of the Whirled comments said)?
And who came up with that $700+ fee? Are there actual expenses tied to that or is it just an arbitrary number to exclude the poor?
Quote from: patric on March 25, 2010, 06:31:28 PM
If anything, the pressure could drive these mom-and-pop businesses underground, and where would your health inspections and tax collection go from there?
Does the city really require 3 sinks (like one of the Whirled comments said)?
And who came up with that $700+ fee? Are there actual expenses tied to that or is it just an arbitrary number to exclude the poor?
Actually, the health department requires four sinks, but let you get by with three.
It seems that this fee is intended for seasonal temporary businesses such as selling christmas trees, where the money gained during that time outweigh the cost of the license. This is similar to what event vendors (corn dogs, funnel cakes ect.) have to pay to get into events. While $750 would be too much for a weekend event it would be close to what is paid for the two weeks the fair is open. However, this is for renting space that has a prime falue, and not a city fee.
Did some digging around and found this from NYC's website on street vendors:
Quote
The City licenses food carts and trucks.
You must have a license, which is a photo ID badge, to run a food-selling business from a pushcart or truck, either year-round or seasonally. You must also have a decal permit for any pushcart or truck where food is sold.
New permits are available only to licensed vendors who were placed on the Food Cart Waiting List and notified by the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene (DOHMH) to apply for the permit required for pushcarts and trucks. A lottery to select licensed mobile food vendors for placement on various waiting lists to apply for a mobile food cart permit was held on June 21, 2007. The deadline for entry was June 11, 2007. Only vendors selected from the lottery were placed on the permit waiting lists.
If DOHMH notified you that you can apply for a permit, you must first file an application in person at the Department of Consumer Affairs (DCA) and then schedule an inspection with DOHMH. If you pass inspection, you will receive your permit sticker when the inspection is done. You should call to schedule an inspection 7 to 10 business days after filing an application and paying.
The permit expires two years from the previous expiration date. The fee is $200 for a processing food unit and $50 for a non-processing food unit. Veterans do not have to pay the fee.
While there would not be a need for a lottery here (this is more of a control of numbers issue if I'm reading it right) I think this could be adapted very well for use here and would create a better enviroment all the way around.
1 to wash....1 to sanitize .....1 to rinse.....
1 to wash hands
I thought we had a food desert in the area,(we cant get what we want, there are only fast food joints and mini-marts),,, and now one group shows one way they take on such a situation and he complains? Perhaps there is something here to learn from, improve upon and "assimilate" for yourself and not complain about. I just recently read about this very idea being promoted as part of the solution to similar "food desert" problems in other cites.
Whats more American than.... There are people who want stuff, they dont have a way to get it... hmmmmm? I know, I will start a little business and get it to em!
$750 is extreme for a permit of this nature.
And yes, I think that reinforces the image of Tulsa government being difficult to deal with.
I'll let someone park a taco truck in my driveway and they can pay me in tacos.
Quote from: Conan71 on March 25, 2010, 02:39:31 PM
How can you interpret this as "outright" racism? I'm sure there are some knuckleheads who complain based on this, but on the other hand, how do you know it's not simply people wanting to make sure that health, tax, vendor, and building codes are being followed? Or perhaps nearby Hispanic brick and mortar business owners who are worried about unfair competition? That ever dawn on you?
Totally agree Conan. When I read the article in my morning World, I said to myself that Mautino was going to get a lot of flack for those comments. I basically agree with him, although I may not have put it into those words. IMO, racism has nothing to do with it and I get so sick of people screaming that invalid argument.
Quote from: Steve on March 26, 2010, 01:02:01 PM
Totally agree Conan. When I read the article in my morning World, I said to myself that Mautino was going to get a lot of flack for those comments. I basically agree with him, although I may not have put it into those words. IMO, racism has nothing to do with it and I get so sick of people screaming that invalid argument.
You agree with him? Which part?
Street vendors aren't "third world" unless NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, Boston, and every other big city in America is "third world." I think street vendors add character, variety, and interest to the cityscape.
"Third World" does apply to many things about Oklahoma... our teen birth rate, our infant mortality rate, our incarceration rate for women, our rate of domestic violence, our decreasing lifespan, our state government theocracy... but street vendors?
I agree that street vendors need to follow health and food safety rules, but other than that, we shouldn't create barriers against entrepreneurs who are helping create something local and unique.
Quote from: Steve on March 26, 2010, 01:02:01 PM
Totally agree Conan. When I read the article in my morning World, I said to myself that Mautino was going to get a lot of flack for those comments. I basically agree with him, although I may not have put it into those words. IMO, racism has nothing to do with it and I get so sick of people screaming that invalid argument.
So, you agree with Mautino's comments but say race doesn't have anything to do with it?
Where does your problem lie?
Let's see:
People trying to make their own living and support their own families?
People trying to get a piece of that American dream?
Maybe you have a problem with the entrepreneurial spirit these people are showing?
What if one of these guys makes killer food, saves up enough money to get a real restaurant and employs people in his neighborhood.
Do you see that as a problem?
So in Steve's & Mautino's world, if your skin is brown you're not entitled to those dreams right and you're merely trying to assimilate all the scared old white men into your culture?
I am confused about the different levels of permitting, zoning, oversight, etc. I don't know the health department, the city code enforcement, nor BOA/TMAPC/INCOG... see them differently.
What is the similarities and differences in the law and enforcement for each of those areas in each of these examples?
1) The hotdog guy on a sidewalk in front of the bus station (70 yards from Coney Islander)
2) The ice cream truck parked all day at RiverParks
3) The tamale guy in a parking lot of a closed business in east Tulsa
4) The kettle corn guy outside in the walkway at the Bass Pro shop
Quote from: RecycleMichael on March 26, 2010, 03:05:49 PM
I am confused about the different levels of permitting, zoning, oversight, etc. I don't know the health department, the city code enforcement, nor BOA/TMAPC/INCOG... see them differently.
What is the similarities and differences in the law and enforcement for each of those areas in each of these examples?
1) The hotdog guy on a sidewalk in front of the bus station (70 yards from Coney Islander)
2) The ice cream truck parked all day at RiverParks
3) The tamale guy in a parking lot of a closed business in east Tulsa
4) The kettle corn guy outside in the walkway at the Bass Pro shop
The city is understaffed to where intertwining duties of the inspectors cannot be on the eyeball basis. We need more city employees to keep checking on sales tax collections and to see if there is more grants that we are missing out on. After all we have only one city employee for every 100 live bodies. We surely can find some more unneeded positions to fill.
There is one parking ticket writer that the city must negotiate with his union if we were to change his status quo.
During the great depression many citizens drank coffee out of tin cans in the survival camps with out health inspectors approval.