In Wichita...before a devote Catholic judge....who seems to be leaning towards lessening the crime from first degree murder to manslaughter. Scott Roeder killed Tiller. He needs to be gassed. He'll get off or have a minor term in jail. Watch.
http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/1673642.html
http://www.kansascity.com/842/story/1702032.html
love the comments....
Well, this s/b interesting. The defense plans to go full bore trying to prove that all Scott Roeder was trying to do was to save innocent lives. Our judicial system live from Wichita Kansas. Not sweet.
HOLY SMOKIES! DEADFWRONG WAS FOTD!
Scott Roeder found guilty of first-degree murder in Tiller killing
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/83322.html
" WICHITA, Kan. — After 37 minutes of deliberation, a jury today found Scott Roeder guilty of first-degree murder in the shooting death of Wichita abortion doctor George Tiller.
Jurors also convicted Roeder of two counts of aggravated assault for threatening two men who chased him as he fled Tiller's church after the shooting.
Sedgwick County District Judge Warren Wilbert set Roeder's sentencing for March 9. Roeder faces a maximum sentence of life in prison.
The prosecution said it will pursue a "hard 50" sentence, which means 50 years in prison with no chance of parole."
The irony is that Roeder was not given the death penalty, which his fellow cultist "Right to Life" henchmen support.
I didn't think the voluntary manslaughter "defense" would fly, and it didn't.
I can't believe it took more than five minutes to convict him. They played his testimony from the stand on the news last night, real cut and dry: "Yep I shot him". What more did we need to know? Roeder thinks of himself as a martyr, he doesn't GAF.
Quote from: Conan71 on January 29, 2010, 06:52:06 PM
I can't believe it took more than five minutes to convict him.
The jurors probably ordered lunch.
Have you noticed how we don't include Radical Right Terrorists when we talk about who terrorists are and what they look like and what faith they practice? Our blinders on this issue leave us largely unpepared for a real threat, and allows folks like Inhoff to make wildly inaccurate statements about who terrorists are.
Quote from: Hometown on February 01, 2010, 12:54:05 PM
Have you noticed how we don't include Radical Right Terrorists when we talk about who terrorists are and what they look like and what faith they practice? Our blinders on this issue leave us largely unpepared for a real threat, and allows folks like Inhoff to make wildly inaccurate statements about who terrorists are.
Yeah right because it was radical right-wing nuts who flew planes into WTC, The Pentagon, and a field in Pa, bombed military barracks overseas, set off IED's on road sides in Afghanistan and Iraq, drove boats into our warships, bomb night clubs, etc.
Roeder isn't a terrorist, he's a self-appointed martyr. Obviously, an incredibly small percentage of anti-abortion activists seem to carry their beliefs as far as he does, otherwise there would be no abortion industry in the U.S. as all abortion doctors would be dead or living in fear of being blown up or shot to the point they would no longer provide abortion services.
I think it was safe to call Timoty McVeigh a terrorist. Please note there was another lone nut as well. Yes there are people out there with anti-government views, but apparently they are not as crazy as McVeigh was.
Yes they are....
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13556.msg153723#msg153723
Conan, the demon inside of me is being restrained from getting personal.
Quote from: FOTD on February 01, 2010, 01:29:23 PM
Yes they are....
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13556.msg153723#msg153723
Conan, the demon inside of me is being restrained from getting personal.
And, by and large, I'd posit that
the majority of Christians and pro-life supporters don't believe in, nor advocate killing abortion providers. I'm sure there is a
small fringe out there who wholeheartedly love what Roeder did.
Conan, why do we not hear these "Christians" calling them out for the hatred and violence?
A fanatic becomes a terrorist and then the "Christians" fear retaliation?
Quote from: FOTD on February 01, 2010, 04:19:51 PM
Conan, why do we not hear these "Christians" calling them out for the hatred and violence?
For the same reason modern Muslims say little about radical Muslims -- the radicals are part of the same tribe, and there's a reluctance to speak out.
Quote from: FOTD on February 01, 2010, 04:19:51 PM
Conan, why do we not hear these "Christians" calling them out for the hatred and violence?
A fanatic becomes a terrorist and then the "Christians" fear retaliation?
Depends on what you Google FOTD. Any of the 'legit' groups who oppose abortion denounced this crime as well as the clinic bombings back in the '90's.
"Opponents of abortion, including those here who have been most vociferous in their protests of Dr. Tiller and his work, also expressed outrage at the shooting and said they feared that their groups might be wrongly judged by the act.
Troy Newman, the president of Operation Rescue, an anti-abortion group based in Wichita, said he had always sought out "nonviolent" measures to challenge Dr. Tiller, including efforts in recent years to have him prosecuted for crimes or investigated by state health authorities.
"Operation Rescue has worked tirelessly on peaceful, nonviolent measures to bring him to justice through the legal system, the legislative system," Mr. Newman said, adding, "We are pro-life, and this act was antithetical to what we believe."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/us/01tiller.html
Quote from: Conan71 on February 01, 2010, 05:35:00 PM
Depends on what you Google FOTD. Any of the 'legit' groups who oppose abortion denounced this crime as well as the clinic bombings back in the '90's.
No, that's not true, actually. I lurk on some extremist right wing boards, and there is a tremendous amount of support for this murder, as well as similar acts, like the fellow in the North Carolina area who hid out in the woods for so long after several bombings in the south.
As for McVeigh, I wouldn't call him a lone wolf, either. What was that Christian identity group in far Eastern Oklahoma he was hooked up with? Elohim City or something?
But whatever the case, extremist rightwingers have tried to parse this crap til the cows come home, but their support for these acts is based on ideologies which are no different in sense or flavor than those of extremist Muslims, and their refusal to acknowledge a terrorist is as a terrorist does is yet more evidence of their deep, profound hypocrisy of word and being.
Then again, they usually use the cover-all of "I'm saved!" quickly followed by "But Christians aren't perfect, why does everyone expect us to be perfect, we're not perfect, blah blah blah, but we're saved!!" to excuse themselves from any responsibility.
Quote from: cecelia on February 01, 2010, 05:48:46 PM
No, that's not true, actually. I lurk on some extremist right wing boards, and there is a tremendous amount of support for this murder, as well as similar acts, like the fellow in the North Carolina area who hid out in the woods for so long after several bombings in the south.
As for McVeigh, I wouldn't call him a lone wolf, either. What was that Christian identity group in far Eastern Oklahoma he was hooked up with? Elohim City or something?
But whatever the case, extremist rightwingers have tried to parse this crap til the cows come home, but their support for these acts is based on ideologies which are no different in sense or flavor than those of extremist Muslims, and their refusal to acknowledge a terrorist is as a terrorist does is yet more evidence of their deep, profound hypocrisy of word and being.
Then again, they usually use the cover-all of "I'm saved!" quickly followed by "But Christians aren't perfect, why does everyone expect us to be perfect, we're not perfect, blah blah blah, but we're saved!!" to excuse themselves from any responsibility.
Homogenize much, Cecilia?
How many of those Elohim City kooks have bombed more federal buildings in the last 15 years?
Much like radical Muslims, radical Christians count for a very small minority of a very large religion but they get the lion's share of publicity. What's the game with liberals to go full apologetic for Muslims yet act as if the situation is any different for another dominant world religion like Christianity?
Neither group comes out and condemns the minority within their cult for hate and violence. Add to the list Republicans.
And what is this bs about liberals going full apologetic for Muslims? Nonsense.
Wasn't the head of Elohim City jailed? They got scared....that's why they quit the bombings. They're all chickensh!ts.
I have no question that I face a greater threat from home grown Right Wing Kooks than I do from Middle Easterners who are pissed off because of U.S. support for Israel.
Quote from: Hometown on February 01, 2010, 07:51:42 PM
I have no question that I face a greater threat from home grown Right Wing Kooks than I do from Middle Easterners who are pissed off because of U.S. support for Israel.
They are not all pissed off at Israel. Most terrorists are fearful, anxious, and insecure over powerlessness.
Quote from: FOTD on February 01, 2010, 07:44:28 PM
Neither group comes out and condemns the minority within their cult for hate and violence. Add to the list Republicans.
Bullshit. Quit seeking only the things which appeal to your pre-concieved notions, and you'd have a better sense of reality. Have you seriously never heard mainstream Muslims and Christians disavow the nut-jobs in their ranks?
Quote from: FOTD on February 01, 2010, 07:59:44 PM
They are not all pissed off at Israel. Most terrorists are fearful, anxious, and insecure over powerlessness.
Where did you learn that pyschobabble? Typical grad school pap.
Quote from: cecelia on February 01, 2010, 05:48:46 PM
I lurk on some extremist right wing boards,
Enough said.
Quote from: Conan71 on February 01, 2010, 08:18:48 PM
Bullshit. Quit seeking only the things which appeal to your pre-concieved notions, and you'd have a better sense of reality. Have you seriously never heard mainstream Muslims and Christians disavow the nut-jobs in their ranks?
Are you off your beer or do you need to get laid?
Quote from: Conan71 on February 01, 2010, 07:00:45 PM
Homogenize much, Cecilia?
Ruh roh! Looks like that post hit close to home! :D
QuoteWhat's the game with liberals to go full apologetic for Muslims yet act as if the situation is any different for another dominant world religion like Christianity?
Maybe an essential part of being a liberal is examining your own conscience and behavior instead of CYAing *I'M SAVED!!!* while pointing the finger at everyone else.
Quote from: Red Arrow on February 01, 2010, 08:55:09 PM
Enough said.
Why? It's been very informative. A few of the boards are private, too, and one is run by a very prominent Christian author. Hoo boy. Scary bunch - they've proven beyond a doubt the real threat to this country is the extremist right wing.
Quote from: cecelia on February 02, 2010, 05:53:15 AM
Why? It's been very informative. A few of the boards are private, too, and one is run by a very prominent Christian author. Hoo boy. Scary bunch - they've proven beyond a doubt the real threat to this country is the extremist right wing.
Something about
extreme puts the opinions out of the mainstream.
Your broad brush has arrived Cecilia.
(http://www.labsupply.com.hk/images/Holitech%20Broad%20Brush%20Probe.jpg)
You've given Cecilia just what she needs to clean house. You may get swept away.
The truth is our extremists are every bit as dangerous as theirs and more of a threat to us because of their proximity and because we fail to call them what they are. Funny, our government had no problem going after our home grown left wing extremists when they were an issue 40 some odd years ago. Maybe it's because the Right is quick to punish its opponents while the Left is not.
Quote from: FOTD on February 01, 2010, 07:59:44 PM
They are not all pissed off at Israel. Most terrorists are fearful, anxious, and insecure over powerlessness.
The seed of Middle Easterner hatred of the U.S. is our support for the Right Wing Governments of Israel.
It is really that simple.
We lost a great friend when Rabin was assassinated. It's long past time for the peacemakers of Israel to rise to power again and put Israel on a path to peace.
Meanwhile, until Israel stops thumbing its nose at us and ignoring our requests, we owe it to ourselves to conduct a cost-benefit analysis of our relationship with Israel.
Quote from: Hometown on February 02, 2010, 12:28:25 PM
The seed of Middle Easterner hatred of the U.S. is our support for the Right Wing Governments of Israel.
It is really that simple.
We lost a great friend when Rabin was assassinated. It's long past time for the peacemakers of Israel to rise to power again and put Israel on a path to peace.
Meanwhile, until Israel stops thumbing its nose at us and ignoring our requests, we owe it to ourselves to conduct a cost-benefit analysis of our relationship with Israel.
Homie, this time let's agree to disagree. There is no finer ally than Israel. You can't possibly know the truth. It's a secret we may never know. One thing's for certain, Israel is on the front line for our Middle Eastern objectives.
Give it time.
Cecilia, pay no mind to the person behind the curtain. The pitchfork supersedes the broom. Brush his righteous propaganda off.
Quote from: FOTD on February 02, 2010, 12:43:11 PM
Cecilia, pay no mind to the person behind the curtain. The pitchfork supersedes the broom. Brush his righteous propaganda off.
Oh, believe me, I've dealt with worse - much worse.
Y'know, I might be a liberal in today's world, but I do have quite a few beliefs that are pretty conservative. I'm a social progressive, but somewhat of a fiscal conservative and even a bit isolationist, as in we need to be taking care of our own backyard before we go out there getting in everyone else's business. There's quite a bit about traditional conservatism I can agree with.
This newfangled "conservatism," though? Yikes.
Quote from: Hometown on February 02, 2010, 12:21:17 PM
You've given Cecilia just what she needs to clean house. You may get swept away.
The truth is our extremists are every bit as dangerous as theirs and more of a threat to us because of their proximity and because we fail to call them what they are. Funny, our government had no problem going after our home grown left wing extremists when they were an issue 40 some odd years ago. Maybe it's because the Right is quick to punish its opponents while the Left is not.
Yep.
Quote from: cecelia on February 02, 2010, 05:53:15 AM
Hoo boy. Scary bunch - they've proven beyond a doubt the real threat to this country is the extremist right wing.
I've run into these scary types at my own doggone barbershop. No jive.
BBD south while they watched newz and going ape over his birth certificate....told them to S T F U and they went nutty....hysterical.
"The Wichita Divide" http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#42543831
Targeting people with violence should be prosecuted to the full extent of our law.
more....http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#42543924
Bullies and Armies of Gawd chime in! Demonizers are ruining America.