Could this be a way to make up for falling sales tax revenue? The City Council lifted its 104 year moratorium on oil/gas drilling within city limits on Jan. 14 and has already had some interest in potential leases. What do you think, good or bad idea?
Urban Tulsa article
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A29070 (http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A29070)
I served on this task force. I think the past Mayor appointed me just to make sure somebody looked at green issues.
At first, I was 100% against drilling in the city limits, especially in Mohawk Park. After our first meeting, I went back and spent a week researching the information I had been given.
I was surprised to learn how much progress had been made lately concerning low impact drilling. Gone are the days were they just built a road, a bunch of pads and scarred the land with salt water splashing.
I now believe that using a single pad, pervious pavements and limited intrusion in both getting equipment in and product out is possible. I offered many particulars, including protecting watershed and proximity to reservoirs that made the final ordinance that the council approved.
If the oil and gas guys follow the language and spirit of the ordinance, I think everything will be fine.
Geologist's of whom I have worked with in constructing instruments trying to find the Glenpool 2nd strike have been very disappointed in the Tulsa area. It seems the oil is in the shallow sands and in a very limited supply. The Tiawah hills seems to form the rim to the basin which claimed the sands holding the oil producing material in the upheaval of the earth. The underground fault that runs near and through Tulsa possibly would have kept the formation of a substantial pool of oil that would justify drilling.
Of course if we have some wild-cat-ters who have several thousand dollars to spend getting in the oil business, Tulsa does have some sharpies that will take your money, standing on nearly every corner in the Downtown Disposal loop. If you see a crowd on a corner they are possibly those who are standing in line to buy that prime property the old city hall is sitting on.
;D
I am pretty sure the big pool is directly below shadows house.
Aunt Pearl thinks you should move to Bev er Ly...hills that is.
Just make sure that the anticipated oil income going to the city is not included in the next year budget. They are working now on last year budget established by the dreamers of projected income and it has caused a run on crying towels. ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: shadows on January 23, 2010, 03:39:01 PM
Just make sure that the anticipated oil income going to the city is not included in the next year budget. They are working now on last year budget established by the dreamers of projected income and it has caused a run on crying towels. ;D ;D ;D
Rumor has it that Keener Oil is out leasing up acreage all over town.... ha ha. They plan to further pollute the county.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on January 22, 2010, 11:20:18 PM
I am pretty sure the big pool is directly below shadows house.
Aunt Pearl thinks you should move to Bev er Ly...hills that is.
Swimmin' pools, movie stars.....
Quote from: Red Arrow on January 23, 2010, 06:22:19 PM
Swimmin' pools, movie stars.....
Hadn't thought about it but there might be some of the Playboy Bunnies in the pool. I'll take the cell phone out there and take some pictures to post. Is there a limit on the transparency allowed on this form? Such wonderful times we are living in. ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: RecycleMichael on January 22, 2010, 08:04:21 PM
At first, I was 100% against drilling in the city limits, especially in Mohawk Park. After our first meeting, I went back and spent a week researching the information I had been given.
I admit my first impression was what might happen after a heavy rainfall with oil and brine being washed into the stormwater drains and going into the river.
But I honestly dont know how that would compare with the current situation of all the salt left behind from the snow treatment washing into the storm drains right now.
Quote from: patric on January 24, 2010, 01:04:10 PM
I admit my first impression was what might happen after a heavy rainfall with oil and brine being washed into the stormwater drains and going into the river.
But I honestly dont know how that would compare with the current situation of all the salt left behind from the snow treatment washing into the storm drains right now.
After a trip through the salt flats, I don't think the road salt has that much effect on the Arkansas river. I've heard the rumor that Lake Keystone is salty enough to support sharks. No idea if it is really true.
I know there is plenty of natural gas under Tulsa County and Oklahoma in general:
(http://www.neb.gc.ca/clf-nsi/rnrgynfmtn/nrgyrprt/nrgyvrvw/cndnnrgyvrvw2008/mg/fg5_06-eng.jpg)
And companies are actively drilling oil wells in Tulsa County, not sure what part though:
http://oilgasexploration.energy-business-review.com/news/austex_oil_starts_drilling_mayo_moore_5_well_in_tulsa_county_oklahoma_091211/ (http://oilgasexploration.energy-business-review.com/news/austex_oil_starts_drilling_mayo_moore_5_well_in_tulsa_county_oklahoma_091211/)
I think it is pretty safe to say that most property owners in the Tulsa city limits own only surface rights and do not own the mineral/oil drilling rights to their land; at least that is always what I have been told. I have read my entire homestead abstract several times and can not find reference to the mineral rights ownership.
Just curious, but anyone know how one can find out who owns the mineral/oil rights to their residential property? There were documents in my abstract regarding a past water rights dispute (interesting reading), but nothing about minerals/oil.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on January 22, 2010, 08:04:21 PM
I served on this task force. I think the past Mayor appointed me just to make sure somebody looked at green issues.
At first, I was 100% against drilling in the city limits, especially in Mohawk Park. After our first meeting, I went back and spent a week researching the information I had been given.
I was surprised to learn how much progress had been made lately concerning low impact drilling. Gone are the days were they just built a road, a bunch of pads and scarred the land with salt water splashing.
I now believe that using a single pad, pervious pavements and limited intrusion in both getting equipment in and product out is possible. I offered many particulars, including protecting watershed and proximity to reservoirs that made the final ordinance that the council approved.
If the oil and gas guys follow the language and spirit of the ordinance, I think everything will be fine.
What research were you "given" and who paid for the research? Also, how do you protect watersheds upon fracking and how can you trace pollutants to reservoirs after the formations have been split? Does one examine the flow before and after a well commences?
I would like the "seismic imaging contract" for this exploration of Tulsa.
I would imagine some Indians might have something to say about this......
My aunt had a couple oil wells (similar to the one pictured below) on her farm for many years. I don't know if the pumping technology has changed, but these suckers are LOUD! You can hear them from quite a distance: boom, boom, boom, putter, boom, boom, boom. I used to pretend that they were Native American drummers having a pow-wow just over the horizon...instead of just noise pollution (that you could hear even inside the house from 1/4 mile away at night).
(http://www.kgs.ku.edu/Publications/Bulletins/ED10/gifs/GW-oil-pump.jpg)
I don't know if anyone has developed "quiet" oil pumps, but I sure hope so! Not sure I'd want to have a picnic at Mohawk with these things banging away nearby...and the smell of crude oil wafting over my sandwich...
Seems if the mineral rights are not in the Abstract then the surface rights is the only property conveyed when the land was split up. Believe the corporation commission record mineral rights. Tulsa has many wells that were drilled then plugged. Drilling rights only expire after a period of time. Have a plugged well on a piece of property but do not own the mineral rights. When oil was 2 or 3 dollars a barrel the interest was not in wells that produced a barrel a day but when it goes for $70 to a $100 dollars a barrel then the interest changes. Abstractors will be going over the Indian allotment deeds on coal/oil mineral right that were conveyed. Land Attorneys got another Christmas Present.
Yes Shadows....there's an old derogatory statement made by real estate attorneys and abstractors regarding this issue.
Here folks, read up: http://clearville.wordpress.com/2009/10/11/clearville-tells-pa-officials-natural-gas-drilling-is-going-to-pollute-the-environment/
You don't know this, but our current mayor's company has polluted south Tulsa lands for many years.
The cost benefit analysis tells me that the potential danger from this far outweighs any benefits.
Quote from: PonderInc on January 25, 2010, 02:20:39 PM
My aunt had a couple oil wells (similar to the one pictured below) on her farm for many years. I don't know if the pumping technology has changed, but these suckers are LOUD! You can hear them from quite a distance: boom, boom, boom, putter, boom, boom, boom. I used to pretend that they were Native American drummers having a pow-wow just over the horizon...instead of just noise pollution (that you could hear even inside the house from 1/4 mile away at night).
The noise was probably from the internal combustion (one cylinder?) engines used to drive the pump. An electric motor would probably be a lot less noisy.
Quote from: Red Arrow on January 25, 2010, 06:04:29 PM
The noise was probably from the internal combustion (one cylinder?) engines used to drive the pump. An electric motor would probably be a lot less noisy.
Noise is caused by the weights at the far end getting loose or off ballence for the pump load. Easy fix. The motors are silent, and even the gas engines are very quiet. Some times they start to squeek, but not if they are maintained.
Quote from: Gaspar on January 26, 2010, 10:46:44 AM
Noise is caused by the weights at the far end getting loose or off ballence for the pump load. Easy fix. The motors are silent, and even the gas engines are very quiet. Some times they start to squeek, but not if they are maintained.
They did used to use un-muffled one-lunger engines. I can't tell you how long it's been since I've heard one and I doubt they are much in use anymore.
Quote from: Conan71 on January 26, 2010, 11:47:17 AM
They did used to use un-muffled one-lunger engines. I can't tell you how long it's been since I've heard one and I doubt they are much in use anymore.
Those are the ones I was thinking about. Some of that old stuff lasted "forever" so I thought some might still be in use.
PonderInc:
The Horse head pumps were made in the building where wrecker service is at present. The one lung motors which operated on any fuel, stored the energy created by the firing of the piston in the twin flywheels. It was regulated by the speed of the flywheels and fired only when the flywheels slowed down. It was a crude but very efficient fuel injected motor. This allowed the use of the motors in remote installations. You heard the sound as the piston fired then the clicking of the governor bypassing the firing until the flywheels slowed down allowing it to cycle again. In the Osage strike they could be heard for miles.
Quote from: Red Arrow on January 26, 2010, 11:53:48 AM
Those are the ones I was thinking about. Some of that old stuff lasted "forever" so I thought some might still be in use.
This brought to mind a really cool exposition:
If you have an appreciation for all things vintage (I have some weird fetish that makes me this way) there is a stationary engine show in Mount Pleasant, Iowa around Labor Day weekend every year. There are a lot of working steam and internal combustion engines on display which use huge fly-wheels and the gimbaled-type governors. They had a working machine shop (the mills & lathes were run by large leather belts off a common shaft) and saw mill powered by steam.
Quote from: shadows on January 26, 2010, 12:47:41 PM
PonderInc:
The Horse head pumps were made in the building where wrecker service is at present. The one lung motors which operated on any fuel, stored the energy created by the firing of the piston in the twin flywheels. It was regulated by the speed of the flywheels and fired only when the flywheels slowed down. It was a crude but very efficient fuel injected motor. This allowed the use of the motors in remote installations. You heard the sound as the piston fired then the clicking of the governor bypassing the firing until the flywheels slowed down allowing it to cycle again. In the Osage strike they could be heard for miles.
I blieve they could run on drip gas, couldn't they?
The old one pop johnny....They are still around.....
Quote from: Conan71 on January 26, 2010, 12:49:58 PM
I blieve they could run on drip gas, couldn't they?
Yes; they installed a mist extractor to pass the natural gas through and it collected "drip gas" which was of a higher octane than the premium gas sold today. It could be mixed with crude oil for a super fuel. It is part of the royalties paid to the mineral rights holder and is sold to the refineries as a part of production. Some of the drip gas is collected also from the natural gas production which also appears in increasing the BTU in a each thousand CF. To reduce this local gas companies have developed a new word that describes the mixing of air with the natural gas thus the gas meter includes this fixed BTU which contains both gas and air paid for at the prevailing gas rates. Residents become contributors for new ball parks.
You technicians seem to be avoiding any cost benefit analysis and the potential hazards this creates which is very typical of your industry....
The best comments are those concerning mineral rights and abstracting title.
Can of worms.
Quote from: FOTD on January 25, 2010, 02:31:51 PM
Yes Shadows....there's an old derogatory statement made by real estate attorneys and abstractors regarding this issue.
Here folks, read up: http://clearville.wordpress.com/2009/10/11/clearville-tells-pa-officials-natural-gas-drilling-is-going-to-pollute-the-environment/
You don't know this, but our current mayor's company has polluted south Tulsa lands for many years.
The cost benefit analysis tells me that the potential danger from this far outweighs any benefits.
Abstracting is a scam. There are only 2-3 states in the U.S. that still require abstracting as in Oklahoma. It is a political patronage scam.
There are a few sure-fire ways to make money in Oklahoma, own a liquor store, own a vehicle title agency, or own a abstract company.
It is one of these stories on "that is the way we have always done it in Tulsa. It started when the Oil Barons had an ordinance passed prohibiting drilling in the small city, given to the Indians as long as the wind blows and the water flows, to protect their interest and ended up paying an entrance fee of a million dollars to run for mayor.
The discovery of oil brought with it an useless by-product created by the cycle of life in the rapid disposing of organisms by nature which we call natural gas. By common reasoning this gas contained the proper element of reproduction needed for fertilizer . Also it could be produced back in a solid, remaining in a unstable product which become an explosive. Today there is an abundance of it and mineral right holders are paid on the amount that is put in the pipe line. One month the check can be in thousands of dollars and the next month less than a hundred dollars. Natural gas farming could be a simple process by using the garbage we are throwing away.
China with estimated 2.4 trillion dollars in negotiable US treasure bonds, the mid-east displeased with our actions, they are selling their oil to China for currency the dollar has been exchanged for, and China is building up a stockpile of oil although they may have areas that could have proven reserves. Being a communism state and not fond of us could destroy our financial world standing. "Made in China is liken the sword hanging by a hair over the house of David."
We are loosing the auto industries but the blow would be to loose the race for gasoline. Tulsa, in the 104 years of annexing had taken land areas on which hundreds of wells have been drilled but because of the production would not sustain the low price of oil, were capped and buildings built over them. With the dollar deprecating against other foreign currency will increase the importing of oil to where it could reach as much as $500 dollars a barrel or more which would make the capped wells, that produced 3 barrels a day, a $1500 day producer. The retail market for gasoline could go in excess of a $100 dollars a gallon for those who could pay it.
Million dollars ante to play in the poker game to be mayor. Who are the other players? Does only one man walk away with the pot?
Quote from: shadows on January 26, 2010, 08:58:29 PM
Million dollars ante to play in the poker game to be mayor. Who are the other players? Does only one man walk away with the pot?
Nothing but respect for tying it all together there at the end.
Quote from: shadows on January 26, 2010, 04:21:34 PM
Yes; they installed a mist extractor to pass the natural gas through and it collected "drip gas" which was of a higher octane than the premium gas sold today. It could be mixed with crude oil for a super fuel. It is part of the royalties paid to the mineral rights holder and is sold to the refineries as a part of production. Some of the drip gas is collected also from the natural gas production which also appears in increasing the BTU in a each thousand CF. To reduce this local gas companies have developed a new word that describes the mixing of air with the natural gas thus the gas meter includes this fixed BTU which contains both gas and air paid for at the prevailing gas rates. Residents become contributors for new ball parks.
The standard calculation of "treated" natural gas is 1 mm BTU per 1000 cf.
My grandfather used to say that drip gas would make a model T climb a tree.
Quote from: shadows on January 26, 2010, 08:58:29 PM
It is one of these stories on "that is the way we have always done it in Tulsa. It started when the Oil Barons had an ordinance passed prohibiting drilling in the small city, given to the Indians as long as the wind blows and the water flows, to protect their interest and ended up paying an entrance fee of a million dollars to run for mayor.
The discovery of oil brought with it an useless by-product created by the cycle of life in the rapid disposing of organisms by nature which we call natural gas. By common reasoning this gas contained the proper element of reproduction needed for fertilizer . Also it could be produced back in a solid, remaining in a unstable product which become an explosive. Today there is an abundance of it and mineral right holders are paid on the amount that is put in the pipe line. One month the check can be in thousands of dollars and the next month less than a hundred dollars. Natural gas farming could be a simple process by using the garbage we are throwing away.
China with estimated 2.4 trillion dollars in negotiable US treasure bonds, the mid-east displeased with our actions, they are selling their oil to China for currency the dollar has been exchanged for, and China is building up a stockpile of oil although they may have areas that could have proven reserves. Being a communism state and not fond of us could destroy our financial world standing. "Made in China is liken the sword hanging by a hair over the house of David."
We are loosing the auto industries but the blow would be to loose the race for gasoline. Tulsa, in the 104 years of annexing had taken land areas on which hundreds of wells have been drilled but because of the production would not sustain the low price of oil, were capped and buildings built over them. With the dollar deprecating against other foreign currency will increase the importing of oil to where it could reach as much as $500 dollars a barrel or more which would make the capped wells, that produced 3 barrels a day, a $1500 day producer. The retail market for gasoline could go in excess of a $100 dollars a gallon for those who could pay it.
Million dollars ante to play in the poker game to be mayor. Who are the other players? Does only one man walk away with the pot?
Sorry you are frustrated with the inconsistency of your
payout cash flow.
Maybe in 100 years the city should consider this when oil is
$50 $5000 a barrel ...if there is a city, a country, an earth. You sound like whining. Your subliminal sh!t is borderline creepy.
How do you go about insuring against "no harm" and "no damages?" This idea is terrible. Worse, it's only lawyers who will really make off well.
How do you get to who owns what interest? Once you do and if you do, good luck finding the heirs. Unless oil companies earning interest on other people's rights and "escrowed" monies are slippery enough to scrape off that "unclaimed" cash without getting caught. A good portion of the industry gets away with this tactic unless a royalty owner knows what goes on and watches their interests with a warranted eye and a firm hand.
And Steve, why are you complaining about jobs created in the liquor, real estate, and in licensing which provide a decent tax base?
Quote from: Conan71 on January 26, 2010, 09:50:55 PM
The standard calculation of "treated" natural gas is 1 mm BTU per 1000 cf.
My grandfather used to say that drip gas would make a model T climb a tree.
Have you noticed that the heated air from the furnace has been increasing throughout the day. Possibly the compressors have been shut down. The natural gas was of little use because of it instability and was burned off in flairs but claiming and handling drip gas was a source of many thefts. The hand cranking motel T, when primed with it, was like using either starter fluid today. Drip gas collecting stations had the same status in the great depression as the whiskey stills by the federal revenuers.
FOID: The drilling within the now city limits was minor as the Glenpool strike, where the Indian royalties were exchange in the number of bottle of whiskey and the Barons reaped from its profits to built the city of Tulsa because they did not want the smell around their castles.
Many of the independent economist of today keep telling us that we are overlooking the powers of China, with its age old resources are becoming the world trade power. If they controlled the oil market along with the increasing ownership of auto's and manipulating the foreign value of the dollar it suggest that one could not get enough $100 dollar bills in a wheelbarrow to buy a gallon of milk. The cheapest way out is return to printing the $1000 dollar bills which cost the same as printing a $1 dollar bill.
As we frolic among the tulips be sure we don't step on one.
Quote from: shadows on January 27, 2010, 04:52:34 PM
Have you noticed that the heated air from the furnace has been increasing throughout the day. Possibly the compressors have been shut down. The natural gas was of little use because of it instability and was burned off in flairs but claiming and handling drip gas was a source of many thefts. The hand cranking motel T, when primed with it, was like using either starter fluid today. Drip gas collecting stations had the same status in the great depression as the whiskey stills by the federal revenuers.
FOID: The drilling within the now city limits was minor as the Glenpool strike, where the Indian royalties were exchange in the number of bottle of whiskey and the Barons reaped from its profits to built the city of Tulsa because they did not want the smell around their castles.
Many of the independent economist of today keep telling us that we are overlooking the powers of China, with its age old resources are becoming the world trade power. If they controlled the oil market along with the increasing ownership of auto's and manipulating the foreign value of the dollar it suggest that one could not get enough $100 dollar bills in a wheelbarrow to buy a gallon of milk. The cheapest way out is return to printing the $1000 dollar bills which cost the same as printing a $1 dollar bill.
As we frolic among the tulips be sure we don't step on one.
you need to share whatever you're taking with those of us happily trapped at home! .....
Answer my questions and quit with the weird posts....that's my bailiwick.
I love it, FOTD has found a poster that creeps HIM out. ;D
Drip gas (gasoline) occurs as a kind of localized distillation, at the wellhead. Basically just unleaded gas (C6, C7, C8, etc), depending on temp/humidity conditions. My grandfather said the same thing about Model T climbing the tree. Maybe we are related?
Natural gas is typically lower number, C1,C2,C3, etc. and stays as gas unless under very high pressure/low temperature.
Oh, yeah...question about drilling in city limits.
Just exactly the kind of ignorant thing we have come to expect from so many of the city office holders.
A lot like Inhofe working behind the scenes to move people back into houses in Picher, OK.
Quote from: Conan71 on January 27, 2010, 07:16:48 PM
I love it, FOTD has found a poster that creeps HIM out. ;D
Ha! This thread is creepy and has far too many insiders rooting for misery....
Barnett Shale shows high benzene levels
Texas regulators plan to increase gas field testing.http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=49&articleid=20100128_49_E3_Worker267170
FORT WORTH — Air testing over one of the nation's biggest natural gas fields revealed two sites with extremely high levels of cancer-causing benzene, Texas environmental regulators said Wednesday.
Call it off city hall....now.
Drilling for oil and gas within city limits is nothing new in other cities in Oklahoma, such as Stillwater. OSU and the City of Stillwater benefit from the mineral rights. And the working oil wells don't make much noise.
Submersible electric motors and pumps work well and are extremely efficient and quiet, but need a "bigger" well. Rocker pumps are a hazard out in the country, let alone in the city.
There was a kid killed near OKC last year playing on the pump. Slipped, got stuck and crushed. Evolution in action.
Very sad for the whole family!
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on February 17, 2010, 08:43:54 PM
Submersible electric motors and pumps work well and are extremely efficient and quiet, but need a "bigger" well. Rocker pumps are a hazard out in the country, let alone in the city.
There was a kid killed near OKC last year playing on the pump. Slipped, got stuck and crushed. Evolution in action.
Very sad for the whole family!
Another drowning in the gene pool...
The shallow end...
Quote from: heironymouspasparagus on February 17, 2010, 08:43:54 PM
Submersible electric motors and pumps work well and are extremely efficient and quiet, but need a "bigger" well. Rocker pumps are a hazard out in the country, let alone in the city.
There was a kid killed near OKC last year playing on the pump. Slipped, got stuck and crushed. Evolution in action.
Very sad for the whole family!
He actually (very luckily) survived but lost his entire arm. But, yes, very stupid. Did he not see the OERB "grounded for life" commercials warning kids to stay off oilfield equipment?
Quote from: SXSW on February 18, 2010, 03:39:13 PM
He actually (very luckily) survived but lost his entire arm. But, yes, very stupid. Did he not see the OERB "grounded for life" commercials warning kids to stay off oilfield equipment?
I bet he won't do that again. . . but then again, you never know.
In all due respect to accidents among the independent producers one cannot overlook that a city councilor and his father were both killed while working on an electrical operating oil well pump.
The dreamers that think the answer is cluttering the city with pumping rigs are only diverting attention from the money crisis created by the changing from a capitalism system to a socialism system where the working poor are considered the capitalist and the city is now the major employer demanding from the working poor, as capitalist, the resources to sustain a high paid non producing group of desk jockeys. Let them drill but restrict taxing food products and rely on the production to offset the loss of taxes.
In the city's conversion to socialism think how many years it would have taken to clean up the city in the ice storm of 07 if the citizens had to rely on the pot hole crew to have done the job.
SXSW
This one died. It was a little ways outside the city. May have been 1 1/2 years ago. Was big news in OKC for about two days.
Quote from: shadows on February 19, 2010, 07:18:17 PM
In all due respect to accidents among the independent producers one cannot overlook that a city councilor and his father were both killed while working on an electrical operating oil well pump.
The dreamers that think the answer is cluttering the city with pumping rigs are only diverting attention from the money crisis created by the changing from a capitalism system to a socialism system where the working poor are considered the capitalist and the city is now the major employer demanding from the working poor, as capitalist, the resources to sustain a high paid non producing group of desk jockeys. Let them drill but restrict taxing food products and rely on the production to offset the loss of taxes.
In the city's conversion to socialism think how many years it would have taken to clean up the city in the ice storm of 07 if the citizens had to rely on the pot hole crew to have done the job.
An odd sounding posting above, but trust me, the oil wells in Stillwater, while not very numerous, aren't too bad to have around and a good reminder of Oklahoma economic culture.