http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=334&articleid=20091116_11_A1_FrtSre311318
Sager is looking for more money...guess he found some more bricks to wash. I'm looking forward to the Mayo Building finishing and am intrigued by the new construction proposed over near the East Village. I know of a couple of other buildings downtown being considered for conversion. Though it's slow, I like the way downtown housing is organically emerging in various sections.
Downtown residential projects eye Vision funds
The sites are competing for $769,000 targeting the Central Business District.
First Street Lofts will have 18 residential units and ground-floor space for a grocery, deli and restaurant. JAMES GIBBARD / Tulsa World
By P.J. LASSEK World Staff Writer
Published: 11/16/2009 2:23 AM
Last Modified: 11/16/2009 3:43 AM
Four downtown residential projects are vying for $769,000 in Vision 2025 funds that will be awarded as a no-interest, 10-year loan.
The amount is what remains of the initial $10 million allocated from the $535 million Vision 2025 sales-tax package.
The funds were designed to be repaid and used as a tool to stimulate downtown, said Julie Miner, the city's economic development coordinator.
The funds are to be spent on promoting economic vitality within Tulsa's Central Business District in the form of housing, she said.
The Vision Downtown Housing Committee will review the project bids to ensure they meet the eligibility requirements, Miner said.
She said the schedule is to have the committee make a recommendation to Mayor Kathy Taylor before she leaves office Dec. 7.
Two of the four projects have already received money from the Vision fund.
The projects are the First Street Lofts, at 310 E. First St., a renewal project that actually began in 1980, and the Mayo 420 Building, at the northwest corner of Fifth and Main streets.
Of the $10 million, the First Street Lofts has already received $1.3 million, and the Mayo 420 Building received $3 million. The Mayo Hotel, which recently reopened, also received $4.9 million.
The other two projects vying for the remaining $769,000 are the Detroit Lofts at 105 N. Detroit Ave., near the ballpark, and a mixed-use project, Lofts on Frankfort by University Development Group, to be located on a vacant lot at the southeast corner of Third Street and Frankfort Avenue.
First Street Lofts: Developer Michael Sager through Blue Dome Properties LLC.
Sager requested the full amount, which he said would complete the project that will ultimately have 18 residential units, of which 12 are single-level units and six multi-level units. There also will be a rooftop deck with a view of ONEOK Field.
The ground floor will be available for a grocery, deli, and restaurant. There is parking on site.
The lofts' size estimates range from about 1,100 to 1,800 square feet. There is 4,668 square feet of common space. The monthly rent will be $1.10 per square foot.
The total project cost is estimated at $2.8 million.
The Mayo 420 Building, also known as Mayo Building: Developer Chuck Wiggin through Mayo Redevelopment LP.
Wiggin requested the full amount, which will be used to reduce the amount of first mortgage debt and eventually reduce the cash equity advance used as bridge funding.
The construction is under way and includes the relocation of the downtown YMCA on the ground floor joining Billy's on the Square, which has been located there for several years.
The building is set to have 67 one- and two-bedroom residences and three offices.
The residential units will range from abo ut 625 to near 2,000 square feet. Rent will be $1.25 per square foot.
The total cost of the full project is estimated at $15.1 million. The building was constructed in 1910 and expanded in 1917.
Detroit Lofts: Tori Synder through Brickhugger LLC.
Synder requested the full amount which she said would be used to secure funding for the project. The three-story existing warehouse will be converted into 16 apartments including one- and two-bedroom. The residential units range from about 680 to 1,200 square feet. The rent will be $1.40 per square foot.
The project also includes on-site parking, and a restaurant and grocery store.
The total cost of the project is estimated at $5.5 million.
The Lofts on Frankfort: Yvonne Hovell, Brandon Jackson, and Derek Gates through University Development Group.
The group is seeking only $500,000 of the available funding.
The group's proposal states the funding would be used to finance 26 underground parking spaces.
The group is in final negotiations with the Tulsa Development Authority to purchase the 0.32 acre of vacant land located in the East Village.
The proposal states the group plans to create mixed-use development in a three-story building. There would be a total of seven office-retail spaces with direct access to pedestrian traffic and 20 residential units and 26 underground parking spaces.
The loft-style residential space will range from 925 to 1,075 square feet.
While Hovell declined to discuss details of the project, the proposal states it would cater to young professionals as well as low- to moderate-income residents.
The total project cost is about $4.8 million.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.J. Lassek 581-8382
pj.lassek@tulsaworld.com
Just based on the article, I would give it to the east village project and the poorly-named Mayo420 project. I think we need to be giving money to larger projects instead of just 12 unit high$ lofts. Those buildings can more easily justify costs than the units aiming at closer to $1psf rates.
Quote from: sgrizzle on November 16, 2009, 10:31:31 AM
Just based on the article, I would give it to the east village project and the poorly-named Mayo420 project. I think we need to be giving money to larger projects instead of just 12 unit high$ lofts. Those buildings can more easily justify costs than the units aiming at closer to $1psf rates.
Just one point of clairification... there is no "give" this is for a 10 year no interest loan.
The East Village project sounds like a good one if they get all their ducks in a row. I would agree, loan the money to that one and the 420 lofts.
Quote from: Vision 2025 on November 16, 2009, 10:52:27 AM
Just one point of clairification... there is no "give" this is for a 10 year no interest loan.
There is a give, there is just an expectation of return.
I've given plenty of people money, although it was called a loan at the time.
Quote from: sgrizzle on November 16, 2009, 01:28:49 PM
There is a give, there is just an expectation of return.
I've given plenty of people money, although it was called a loan at the time.
Try telling your mortgage company you thought it was a gift...
These loans are in the position of a 2nd mortgage with an established limit on the amount of the first position.
Vision2025...that may be well and good but the fact that they are in a second position to any mortgages filed on the properties leaves them vulnerable if the project fails to complete development for lack of funding. I would think the ability to fully fund the project should have been at the top of the list of criteria along with more direct oversight and benchmarks in place to insure that development is on schedule and in line with draw requests.
Sager seems to have another $850,000 mortgage on the building in addition to the $1.3 million from TDA. Thats if he satisfied the existing $580,000 taken out by mortgage 6 months before that. His orginal estimate was $2.8 million to complete, revised over the years to upwards of $4 million...even applying the two together at $2.15 million, he was shy .65 million to complete based on his original budget...before he took out every brick, one by one, washed them tucked them in nice and neat and kissed them goodnight.
Several months ago, you Vision2025, stated you had no doubt Sager would finish his lofts..now here he is saying that if he doesnt get this funding his project is dead in the water. How is it that he can tell the Tulsa World that all he needs to finish is this $769,000? No one in their right mind would believe thats all its going to take to completely finish those.
I say let the East Village developer have the funds to encourage further development in that section of downtown. Mayo420 needs to come up with balance of their funding out of pocket given they already have received and their proforma questioned over a year ago by BOK. Snyder's should have no problem financing the full bulk of their project if the ballpark is truly supposed to do what it was billed as.
"The group is seeking only $500,000 of the available funding.
The group's proposal states the funding would be used to finance 26 underground parking spaces. "
$19,000 per space? I would be interested to see how they offer "low to moderate income" tenants with this cost in parking alone.
The loan should certainly be contingent upon the borrower providing evidence that any additional funds needed are available to complete the project. If the Frankfort and Detroit projects can do this then I would go with one of them.
Quote from: Nic Nac on November 16, 2009, 06:09:10 PM
"The group is seeking only $500,000 of the available funding.
The group's proposal states the funding would be used to finance 26 underground parking spaces. "
$19,000 per space? I would be interested to see how they offer "low to moderate income" tenants with this cost in parking alone.
Actually, $19,000 per space is not bad at all for underground parking. Rule of thumb for underground parking is $25,000 per space.
QuoteThe loan should certainly be contingent upon the borrower providing evidence that any additional funds needed are available to complete the project. If the Frankfort and Detroit projects can do this then I would go with one of them.
I agree 100%.
Quote from: Nic Nac on November 16, 2009, 06:09:10 PM
"The group is seeking only $500,000 of the available funding.
The group's proposal states the funding would be used to finance 26 underground parking spaces. "
$19,000 per space? I would be interested to see how they offer "low to moderate income" tenants with this cost in parking alone.
The loan should certainly be contingent upon the borrower providing evidence that any additional funds needed are available to complete the project. If the Frankfort and Detroit projects can do this then I would go with one of them.
That is pretty standard for underground parking. The excavation, concrete, and structural work involved with building underground parking is often prohibitely expensive which is why you rarely see it in Tulsa. I really admire developers who build underground parking here.
What would be a reasonable cost for above ground parking garage spaces per space?
There are currently 554 buildings in downtown Tulsa. There are also 353 parking/vacant lots in downtown Tulsa.
Assuming the East End development will be well-designed and constructed...
Anyone who wants to 1.) build on an empty lot 2.) locate the parking underground 3.) build a mixed-use development and 4.) create affordable housing downtown...
I think they should get a slice of the pie.
Quote from: Red Arrow on November 16, 2009, 09:54:30 PM
What would be a reasonable cost for above ground parking garage spaces per space?
A reasonable budget number for structured above ground parking on a reasonable scale (say 3 decks high) is $13-15,000 per space in current dollars.
Does anyone know why in the world it's taken Sager forever to complete the conversion of the building on 1st St? It's not that big of a building. Seems like the Mayo Hotel was purchased, planned, and renovated in the time his building has been under re-construction. The Mayo is 3-4 times the size and adapted for many multiple uses.
I wouldn't care as much if we weren't giving public assistance and considering giving more. I can't imagine the Mayo was in better shape. Maybe I'm comparing apples and oranges. I don't know what it takes to convert an old building and I don't know what the insides of either of these buildings looked like but my perception is that the conversion of both of those buildings should have been comparable relative to size. What gives? Is he really close to completion and this money will get him over the next few months to an openning date on the horizon?
It is taking longer because he has a very small crew. Also, he has been riding out the economy which has dropped his contsruction costs in many areas considerably. I believe he changes aspects of the design regularly as well.
Quote from: sgrizzle on November 17, 2009, 12:38:37 PM
It is taking longer because he has a very small crew. Also, he has been riding out the economy which has dropped his contsruction costs in many areas considerably. I believe he changes aspects of the design regularly as well.
Well, that's one way to look at it. Sager's finances have always been pretty binary as well.
Quote from: sgrizzle on November 17, 2009, 12:38:37 PM
It is taking longer because he has a very small crew. Also, he has been riding out the economy which has dropped his contsruction costs in many areas considerably. I believe he changes aspects of the design regularly as well.
What? Is he literally out there by himself washing the building brick by brick? I would think one wouldn't be able to afford to go too slow and use too small a crew.
Quote from: OurTulsa on November 17, 2009, 12:43:32 PM
What? Is he literally out there by himself washing the building brick by brick? I would think one wouldn't be able to afford to go too slow and use too small a crew.
One can never go too small or too slow.
Quote from: sgrizzle on November 17, 2009, 02:56:56 PM
One can never go too small or too slow.
What? I have led my life in the opposite direction.
Quote from: sgrizzle on November 17, 2009, 02:56:56 PM
One can never go too small or too slow.
Maybe he's not too worried about interest payments mounting.
Quote from: Conan71 on November 17, 2009, 12:41:15 PM
Well, that's one way to look at it. Sager's finances have always been pretty binary as well.
I would hate to see good money thrown after bad. Just a quick look on OSCN shows multiple lawsuits against Sager from the 90s. Even ignoring all the lawsuits with Kitchell, he has had six lawsuits since 2005--all for some sort of non-payment, and one as recently as this past summer. I guess that he ultimately paid up with each of those lawsuits, since they were dismissed. Still, as a taxpayer, I don't think it is the most promising of investments for my tax dollar. And the First Street Lofts seems to be always "about to get off the ground". He received the money in March of 2006. In August of 2006, Sager announced he would break ground in 30 days (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20060828/ai_n16694369/?tag=content;col1). It took almost a year before he actually did break ground. (http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/printerfriendlystory.aspx?articleID=070322_1_A9_ERWor66755). At about the same time, the UrbanTulsa ran a story about Sager's financial problems, and the fact that there were foreclosure proceedings against the BlueDome. In September of 2007, Sager claimed that the project was "back on track" (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20070927/ai_n21025352/?tag=content;col1). Six months later, he said that work had begun "in earnest" with completion anticipated by fall (of 2008) (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?articleID=20080419_32_E1_spancl312600). Over a year later, Sager says that even though it doesn't look like much, "lots" has been done (like cleaning each brick individually) (http://www.tulsabusiness.com/article.asp?aID=49067&page=1). That was last May. Now the First Street Lofts website has been shut down, and he is coming back for more money. Again, I just don't want my tax dollars wasted. I want completed projects, and I don't want to have to spend any more money to get to completion or to get paid back.
I hear the Frankfort proposal may not move forward because they may have failed to adequately state previous development experience. I dont necessarily agree with that take given they have the financing in place, have a plan and development proposal and what not. I think they should be allowed to modify their proposal and identify the architects, contractors/GC, civil and what not entities IF they are in place.
Of course, the same question and concern should have been raised when Sager looked for the original Vision2025 funds. What was his previous development experience? Who were his contractors or GC? He has been taking draws on the Vision2025 monies for "management" fees. Thats one reason his project has gone on so long I think, he doesnt have the experience needed to 'manage' this task. On top of that, the $1.3 million has been used...and there is no way the full $1.3 million has been used on the project at the level it is currently. So where has the money gone? I think a full open and public accounting report should be made so we all know where our tax dollars went specifically. If the Vision2025 committee fails to do that and gives Sager additional monies then we can draw our own conclusions about how it operates and who is preferred.
Vision2025...since you like to add comments here - where is the full accounting of V2025 fund monies spent by project and is it in line with development costs?
Sager's use or mis-use of funds should be of concern and needs to be audited. I can't believe the screening process could be so lax in which developers do and don't get to participate in V-2025 funding. Sager's reputation isn't exactly a secret. He can blame dooshy tennants like Steve Kitchell for his financial woes, but the truth of the matter is, his track record goes back at least 20 years.
Sager is a nice enough guy, but I would never, ever enter into any sort of business arrangement with him.
Respectfully, it would not be appropriate for me to respond to detailed comments posted here while the City is in the process of reviewing a published solicitation.
Meanwhile, as a completely outside 3rd party who works a few blocks away from the lofts "construction" I can say...
This damned building has been under construction for the entire 4.5 years I have worked in OTC downtown. If Vision 2025 gave this clown money and he is misappropriating it, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.. and if progress on the building is falling apart and I could finish it faster if I jammed a paintbrush up my donkey get his donkey out and find somebody else!
It seems nobody in Tulsa is serious about making Tulsa great, they are just going to continue going about their mediocre lives and pissing away government money.
Elliot Nelsen (sp?) practically owns all of the successful places in the Blue Dome district now.. why not own the apartments that your customers for your restaurants can live in and buy out this assclown? At least hire somebody who knows what the hell they are doing.
Signed,
Tired of seeing a big giant empty building for the past year where progress was supposed to be downtown.
Vision2025 - detailed comments aside...just provide us an answer as to:
- What specific levels of oversight are levied against projects that receive V2025 funding?
- Who provides the oversight and ensures compliance with proposals and construction time tables?
- What costs and fees are deemed acceptable for reimbursement by V2025 funds during the construction period?
- Who determines the financial feasability of submitted projects?
- Where one can find the public accounting for any monies spent by these recipients for their respective projects to-date?
These are after all public tax dollars beign spent on these project and should be open to public record no?
Quote from: DowntownNow on November 20, 2009, 08:14:23 AM
Vision2025 - detailed comments aside...just provide us an answer as to:
- What specific levels of oversight are levied against projects that receive V2025 funding?
- Who provides the oversight and ensures compliance with proposals and construction time tables?
- What costs and fees are deemed acceptable for reimbursement by V2025 funds during the construction period?
- Who determines the financial feasability of submitted projects?
- Where one can find the public accounting for any monies spent by these recipients for their respective projects to-date?
These are after all public tax dollars beign spent on these project and should be open to public record no?
I've not really had any problems finding that information on the Vision2025 website. Me thinks your fishing...
Of the 4 groups that applied for the funding, it appears only 1 has accomplished what they committed to do. The Snyder Family has done a fabulous job at the Mayo. Sales and other taxes are being collected, residents have moved in and the project is on sound financial ground. I say, keep investing in proven proformer. Sager is a diaster and to throw good money after bad money doesn't make an ounce of sense. The East Village Group are not proven performers, they don't control the dirt (who knows what TDA would do since they are hung up on $1.5-mil and HUD) and the money goes for "parking" and not housing. Mr Wiggin's project continues to struggle do the indecision and mis-management. The Snyders will bring their project up on line within a year and from what I can see, the proof is in the pudding, they do what they say! If they don't get the lion share of the money, it's purely political. Mayo Grand Opening- December 3rd. When is the 1st street loft grand opening scheduled for, December 3rd, 2015???
Good Point ^
I'm torn between the Snyders and the East End Project
I want to see more dirt up construction in downtown and I think the East End project helps start the ball rolling to connect down town to "the bend" on east 3rd
But, there might be bigger return on investment by tight residential groups in the CBD which would drive amenities, shops and restaurants around the new folks that are walking the streets after everyone else leaves downtown to go home (they are already home).
I had gone to a wedding reception when just the main lobby area was open a couple of years ago. I wandered through the rest of the Mayo after our Art Deco Museum meeting at Topeca the other night for the first time. I'm very, very impressed with what the Snyders accomplished. I'd have no problem trusting them to get a project done, especially as long as the Mayo languished, and how deteriorated it was before they came along.
Quote from: carltonplace on November 23, 2009, 03:45:26 PM
Good Point ^
the new folks that are walking the streets
new street-walkers?
Brady Lofts...
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20091204_11_0_Tulsas904483 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20091204_11_0_Tulsas904483)
Quote from: Vision 2025 on December 04, 2009, 01:38:42 PM
Brady Lofts...
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20091204_11_0_Tulsas904483 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20091204_11_0_Tulsas904483)
This appears to be the warehouse at the NE corner of Archer & Detroit. Looking forward to seeing the plans and renderings tomorrow.
Good choice.
It was my favorite of the four.
Quote from: SXSW on December 04, 2009, 01:44:01 PM
This appears to be the warehouse at the NE corner of Archer & Detroit. Looking forward to seeing the plans and renderings tomorrow.
This one, I'm guessing?
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=105+N+Detroit+Ave,+Tulsa,+Oklahoma+74120&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=56.06887,79.013672&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FU29JwIdNlBH-g&split=0&hq=&hnear=105+N+Detroit+Ave,+Tulsa,+Oklahoma+74120&ll=36.158736,-95.9897&spn=0.003534,0.004823&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=36.158812,-95.98974&panoid=LPh0f7clkchgnnZijXvjFQ&cbp=12,74.96,,0,0.29
Quote from: Hoss on December 04, 2009, 02:28:52 PM
This one, I'm guessing?
That's New Medio on the corner, which unless something's changed recently is a Sager property.
Quote from: Townsend on December 04, 2009, 03:03:05 PM
That's New Medio on the corner, which unless something's changed recently is a Sager property.
The 3 story building surrounding New Medio.
Or will it be the whole corner...?
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2009/Thumbs/20091204_detroitlofts1111111204_package.jpg)
Anyway, after seeing what a tremendous job the Snyders have done at the Mayo Hotel, it's pretty exciting to think about what's coming next.
Good for them. Glad to see another old building being rehabbed. But I want to see some new stuff too dang it lol.
Which corner of the building is the rendering showing us? I am thinking the NE corner but not positive. Great addition to the Brady district!
Ok, got it. That is the NE corner. Looks like the entrance to the restaurant is coming off the alley but should have visibility from the ballpark. Did the Snyders get the parking lot to the East as well?
Quote from: TheArtist on December 05, 2009, 08:15:07 AM
Good for them. Glad to see another old building being rehabbed. But I want to see some new stuff too dang it lol.
It's not like there's nothing new planned, aren't the Tribune Lofts still coming, and the hotel across from the BOK Center?
What about the baseball stadium, isn't that new?
Quote from: TheArtist on December 05, 2009, 08:15:07 AM
Good for them. Glad to see another old building being rehabbed. But I want to see some new stuff too dang it lol.
How about some new Art-Deco? Would that be legitimate or taboo?
Hey, they do new everything else these days. New Italian, new colonial, etc. The great thing about deco is how versatile it is. You can do something fresh, new and contemporary,,,, with a deco twist. Contemporary works wonderfully with Deco. Some would say that Art Deco or Art Moderne never really died, but continued to evolve and branched into what we have today. Imo I wish Tulsa had been doing something here and there with deco throughout its history. Would be neat to point to a building and say; thats 20s deco, thats 40s or 50s deco, thats an 80s deco building, that one is a contemporary deco building. The style of each decade can be done in a deco manner just as you can see buildings that are Deco Gothic, Deco Egyptian, Pueblo Deco, and so on. You can look around the city and see Italian, Gothic, Colonial, Frrench, etc. style buildings and homes from the 20s, 50s, 80s, and today. And you can look at them and tell what era they were built in. Each era had its own take. So if its ok to do that, (and some people despise it) why not the same with Deco?
http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0310/712230.html (http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0310/712230.html)
Why does this story about the downtown housing study quote Sager and Arnett?
Is Sager the wisest choice? It seems I see the First street lofts pictured in almost every DT housing story and it's the most troubled that I can tell.
Am I missing something?
QuoteTulsa - With the BOK Center and soon-to-be completed baseball stadium, there is a lot going on downtown. But, there aren't that many places to live. A new study shows the demand is there.
Through various surveys, the study found a demand for at least four hundred living units this year alone, from condos to town houses. People want it. It's just a matter of getting them built.
From the outside, it may look like just another downtown building. But, inside, it's soon to be home to the First Street Lofts, by developer Michael Sager. 8 Talkback:
Click Here to Comment on this Story
"Those that want to live downtown should be able to live downtown," Sager says. "It's a housing choice."
And, according to the new study presented Wednesday, there are a lot of folks who would choose to live downtown if the housing was there.
The study shows for the next five years, Tulsa needs to build 325 to 475 units per year to meet the demand.
"It's about the urban experience," says Sager. "It's about vibrant, young, active and it's not necessarily young. We've had lots of inquiries for First Street Lofts, a demographic we wouldn't think."
David Arnett has lived in a downtown loft for almost ten years now.
"Downtown has been viable throughout it's history," Arnett says. "It just may not be as well packaged as suburbia."
And, it's the packaging that downtown needs to work on, including becoming more walkable. City leaders say it's something to work on because once the housing is there, business will follow. And, that means more money for the city as a whole.
"A dynamic downtown is a critical part of generating visitors, which is sales tax, hotel motel tax, which takes care of streets," says Bob Bolzle with the Economic Development Commission.
It's something Sager has practically been shouting from the rooftop of his lofts for years.
Many of the new lofts and housing developments downtown, like the Mayo Hotel, received money from Vision 2025 grants as part of revitalizing downtown. You can expect to see those lofts ready by summer.
Why are you surprised? Because they went for comment outside of the TN fraternity? All of those folks are players in downtown regardless of their reputation or perceived success. I have my reservations about them but they were naturals for interviews.
What the reporters/writers surmised was more critical to me. Demand has always been there for downtown housing. Its been poorly met and downright ignored for decades. I, and friends of mine, wanted to live in downtown lofts over three decades ago but were told that zoning wouldn't allow it. Now, all of a sudden, its news?
They also conclude that business will follow downtown housing, which is the accepted notion, but not necessarily true. Within two miles of ground zero downtown exists high densities of single family and multi-family housing. High quality housing of varied demographic nature. Yet, we have to travel to Promenade, Brookside, Cherry Street, Utica Square and the fairgrounds area to do our shopping. We have to travel farther than if similar businesses existed downtown where churches, TCC, social services and jail operations snapped up available locations.
Its leadership that failed downtown not the suburbs. Damage done by attitudes that attempted to protect status quo interests for years is hard to repair. Now downtown is getting electro shock therapy. This will piss off the core of the frat here, but this is my feeling.....I expect downtown will end up looking like Brookside and Cherry Street. Sanitized and commercialized by commercial realtors and wealthy land owners in attempts to draw people in who are more comfortable with 'sburban lifestyles. Safety, class separation, moderation and conformity are their issues. Kohl's, franchised operations, Red Robin's, gas lamps and fake canals. Lovely rehabbed historical buildings mostly accessible to only the top tier disposable income earners.
Frankly, I don't blame suburbans for their lifestyle or their hesitance in wanting to revive such a downtown. They already have these things.
Quote from: waterboy on March 04, 2010, 07:28:12 AM
Why are you surprised? Because they went for comment outside of the TN fraternity?
Where'd you get that?
If you took that as an attack on your friends, it wasn't.
I was commenting that they seem to use Sager as an example much more than others when some news organizations talk about Downtown revitalization.
I didn't think Sager's share of revitalization compares as high as some others. If I'm wrong, let me know. His 1st street loft project has been slow to finish and other buildings I've been told are his property have sat empty and decrepid.
As far as Arnett goes, did they choose him because of his blog?
Arnett is the go-to guy on downtown housing since he has lived a block away from the Tulsa World for years and he gets in front of every news camera he can find.
Quote from: Townsend on March 04, 2010, 12:23:41 PM
Where'd you get that?
If you took that as an attack on your friends, it wasn't.
I was commenting that they seem to use Sager as an example much more than others when some news organizations talk about Downtown revitalization.
I didn't think Sager's share of revitalization compares as high as some others. If I'm wrong, let me know. His 1st street loft project has been slow to finish and other buildings I've been told are his property have sat empty and decrepid.
As far as Arnett goes, did they choose him because of his blog?
No, no, no.....I think we missed each other on this one. I thought you were inferring that these folks interviewed had been chosen capriciously. And that people on this forum might have been better interviews. In fact these guys are merely well known for living in or working on downtown. Sager seems shady to me, Arnett loves to puff his own legacy and Bolzle is a commercial real estate guy. I have past acquaintances with them and worked shortly with Arnett. LIke them or not they are all committed to downtown.
I was simply musing on the mess we got ourselves into and why no one in the press ever seems to do more than shine, shine, shine the stories. And why didn't they interview David Sharp?
Quote from: cannon_fodder on March 04, 2010, 09:17:23 PM
I chuckled when I heard sager interviewed for this story... I believe he the only person to accept 2025 funds, spend them, and have nothing whatsoever to show for it. He owns as many downtown lofts as I do.
Zero?