http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=11208082 (http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=11208082)
QuoteOKLAHOMA CITY -- One of the state's most controversial lawmakers is drawing an equally controversial opponent. Representative Sally Kern will face a transgendered attorney in her next race for the state House.
That's awesome. You can't make up stuff like that. I can't wait to hear the diatribe if Kern gets beat.
That's awesome. I'm looking forward to this race. As a ex-man now woman who loves men . . . is she gay? If not, does that make Sally as mad as if she were? Frankly, I think the odds of Sally ignoring the giant purple elephant in her homophobal world are slim to none.
(http://novotnylawokc.com/images/signature.gif)
www.brittany4hd84.com
- She is in favor of high speed rail to Tulsa.
- Wants education to be a real priority for Oklahoma (as opposed to kip service). Including MERIT PAY for teachers.
- Presumably she isn't a God-fearing homophobe who will make absurd statements embarrassing our State.
I say it's an improvement.
I'd love nothing more than for Kern to get steamrolled in this election, but I hope there is another candidate, b/c all this candidate will do is rally the Kerniacs in her district to vote.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on September 28, 2009, 01:06:54 PM
That's awesome. I'm looking forward to this race. As a ex-man now woman who loves men . . . is she gay?
As Paul Harvey would say.. "Now, the rest of the story"
http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/getimage.tif?submitted=true&casemasterid=349315&db=CLEVELAND&barcode=1002647585
ex-man now still a man?
Sorry, but with all do respect to a persons individual choices this is begging for the following:
QuoteQuagmire: "Hey there little lady. Why don't you turn around and show me your Lower East Side."
Woman (man voice) : "Sure."
Quagmire: "Whoa, transvestite, back off! Wait a minute...pre-op or post-op?"
Woman: "Pre-op."
Quagmire: "Whoa, transvestite, back off!"
On a more serious note, I would have to agree with that ruling. If the, umm, changes are not permanent you can not change the ID. It makes it a tough situation for the person but from a legal perspective he is just dressing like a she at this point (not passing judgment on the issue). Do you think being pre-op is better or worse, in terms of her political career in Oklahoma?
/doesn't change my opinion of the matter
Quote from: cannon_fodder on September 30, 2009, 03:16:10 PM
Sorry, but with all do respect to a persons individual choices this is begging for the following:
On a more serious note, I would have to agree with that ruling. If the, umm, changes are not permanent you can not change the ID. It makes it a tough situation for the person but from a legal perspective he is just dressing like a she at this point (not passing judgment on the issue). Do you think being pre-op is better or worse, in terms of her political career in Oklahoma?
/doesn't change my opinion of the matter
I can't give any serious opinions for this one. Glad I'm not in this district.
It would not open the link it kept trying to open a Quick Time player. So he is not a she yet or she is still a he? Semi- sort of?
Sally Kern is an amazing woman. I love her courage to stand up for what is right. We need more people like her!
Quote from: Conan71 on September 30, 2009, 04:39:12 PM
It would not open the link it kept trying to open a Quick Time player. So he is not a she yet or she is still a he? Semi- sort of?
She applied to have her gender on her DL changed to "female" in 2006 but she had not actually had the surgery yet so was denied. She has not reapplied so one can assume she still hasn't had the surgery. So at this point it's a "Man who wants to be a woman" not a "Man who became a woman"
Some of the discovery channel stuff I've seen talks about how much biologically goes into what is a man or a woman other than the obvious accessories and a decent percentage of people who end up somewhere in between. Jamie Lee Curtis is supposedly one of them for example.
To me, don't say you are now a woman unless you get the surgery to change it.
Quote from: Cubs on October 01, 2009, 01:14:06 AM
Sally Kern is an amazing woman. I love her courage to stand up for what she thinks is right. We need more people like her!
Quote from: Cubs on October 01, 2009, 01:14:06 AM
Sally Kern is a troubled and small minded woman. I fear her need to stand up for what is mentally retarded. We need more people like her to keep quiet and accept others!
Sorry RA, I just had to correct it a bit more.
Hey, Boo Boo, its not courageous to be a conservative, right winger in Oklahoma. Or to be in the oil business, or to rebuke gays, or to be against liberals, immigrants, Obama and health care reform.
It looks like we'll retain our ability to make the rest of the country snicker.
Quote from: Cubs on October 01, 2009, 01:14:06 AM
Sally Kern is an amazing woman. I love her courage to stand up for what is right. We need more people like her!
Does that mean you think homosexuals are the single biggest threat?
They don't even make my top 100 list. They wouldn't even be considered. Frankly, I'm not sure how homosexuals count as a threat or as a negative.
Thinking of the stereotyped homosexual; they hold a professional job, have disposable income, good taste, well maintained houses and a kind disposition. Why wouldn't I want more in my community? Of course, like all others the stereotype doesn't always hold true - but it is based on some reality and certainly Sally's objections to homosexuals are even MORE based on stereotypes. Honestly, what negatives do homosexuals bring to a community?
Does that also mean you think a theocracy is a good idea?
It's true, she stands up for what she thinks is right. But so did Hitler (I couldn't resist).
Quote from: cannon_fodder on October 01, 2009, 09:17:12 AM
Frankly, I'm not sure how homosexuals count as a threat...
They're going to invade!
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3250/2902015987_78f1dbf63b.jpg)
Quote from: sgrizzle on October 01, 2009, 07:43:24 AM
She applied to have her gender on her DL changed to "female" in 2006 but she had not actually had the surgery yet so was denied. She has not reapplied so one can assume she still hasn't had the surgery. So at this point it's a "Man who wants to be a woman" not a "Man who became a woman"
Some of the discovery channel stuff I've seen talks about how much biologically goes into what is a man or a woman other than the obvious accessories and a decent percentage of people who end up somewhere in between. Jamie Lee Curtis is supposedly one of them for example.
To me, don't say you are now a woman unless you get the surgery to change it.
Yeah, but I like Jamie Lee's obvious accessories!
But, but...I was attracted to Jamie Lee. Am I catching the gay?
Quote from: waterboy on October 01, 2009, 12:10:42 PM
But, but...I was attracted to Jamie Lee. Am I catching the gay?
The EPA is checking the river water for it.
I'm sure this comes off as terrifically insensitive, but nobody's ever been able to explain to me why transgendered pursuits aren't classified as some kind of body dysmorphic disorder. It's a fixation on a perceived bodily flaw, right? Whether it comes along with emotional difficulties, I don't know.
Quote from: Cubs on October 01, 2009, 01:14:06 AM
Sally Kern is an amazing woman. I love her courage to stand up for what is right. We need more people like her!
Yet more evidence to my contention that Cubs' persona is a parody of right-wing zealots.
Quote from: Townsend on October 01, 2009, 08:58:27 AM
Sorry RA, I just had to correct it a bit more.
No problem.
Quote from: buckeye on October 01, 2009, 12:24:10 PM
I'm sure this comes off as terrifically insensitive, but nobody's ever been able to explain to me why transgendered pursuits aren't classified as some kind of body dysmorphic disorder. It's a fixation on a perceived bodily flaw, right? Whether it comes along with emotional difficulties, I don't know.
Because it's not just about the.. accessories.
That's true. Otherwise, it'd be, "I'm a man and I want [as part of my body] a vagina and other physical implements of womanhood. But I'm still a man." Or, "My penis just isn't clitoris-shaped ENOUGH. It's faulty!"
Ok, this is going nowhere, sorry. Carry on.
I don't find the question, as posed, to be offensive at all. It's an honest question buckeye.
QuoteBody dysmorphic disorder is a type of chronic mental illness in which you can't stop thinking about a flaw with your appearance — a flaw either that is minor or that you imagine. But to you, your appearance seems so shameful and distressing that you don't want to be seen by anyone. Body dysmorphic disorder has sometimes been called "imagined ugliness."
When you have body dysmorphic disorder, you intensely obsess over your appearance and body image, often for many hours a day. You may seek out numerous cosmetic procedures to try to "fix" your perceived flaws but never are satisfied. Body dysmorphic disorder is also known as dysmorphophobia, or the fear of having a deformity.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/body-dysmorphic-disorder/DS00559
To play your devil's advocate, a transgendered person is not perceiving a minor flaw or imagining one. If mentally you are a female but you have a penis, that is a serious and real physical flaw. And I don't think most of them view it as "shameful or distressing," just that it doesn't fit them. To accept that explanation one must accept that transgendered people really do feel as if they are the "wrong" sex, otherwise it is just a matter of physical perception. It might also have something to do with the degenerate nature of the disease: most transsexual/transgender people "correct" the problem by cross dressing or surgery and move on while other diseases are destructive (I suppose "self corrective surgery" would be highly destructive, but I don't really hear about that).
Frankly, the entire situation is so alien to me all I can do is TRY to understand. But to be very blunt, if a Sam wants to tuck/remove his penis, dress in heals, and change his name to Samantha . . . it doesn't effect my life one way or another. Hence, I have no problem with it.
Quote from: waterboy on October 01, 2009, 09:06:50 AM
Hey, Boo Boo, its not courageous to be a conservative, right winger in Oklahoma. Or to be in the oil business, or to rebuke gays, or to be against liberals, immigrants, Obama and health care reform.
It looks like we'll retain our ability to make the rest of the country snicker.
To a certain degree you are right. What is actually controversial in this state is to be Gay, Liberal , support illegal immigration, be anti-gun, support Obama, support socialized medicine or support gay marriage. So this fake outrage over Kern's opinions is idiotic.
Fake outrage?
Here's the quote:
Homosexuality is "the biggest threat that our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam."
Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFxk7glmMbo
If you're not outraged by crap like this, I don't know what to tell you.
Quote from: USRufnex on October 06, 2009, 06:25:31 PM
If you're not outraged by crap like this, I don't know what to tell you.
I'm sure you will think of something, you always do.
Quote from: jamesrage on October 06, 2009, 02:58:48 PM
To a certain degree you are right. What is actually controversial in this state is to be Gay, Liberal , support illegal immigration, be anti-gun, support Obama, support socialized medicine or support gay marriage. So this fake outrage over Kern's opinions is idiotic.
Really James. I mean really. Take out the words "controversial", "support illegal", "anti-gun", "socialized medicine" and "gay marriage". I never said any of those phrases. Not much left when you do. I guess that's what they mean by spin. My point is that it is hardly "COURAGEOUS" to have those views.
But I do agree with your sentiment. Kern's views are hardly surprising or unusual around these parts. They are still outrageous beliefs. What the heck were the state Dems thinking? Why not just stipulate that we can't win that particular race and spend the money elsewhere?
Quote from: waterboy on October 06, 2009, 07:57:36 PM
Really James. I mean really. Take out the words "controversial", "support illegal", "anti-gun", "socialized medicine" and "gay marriage". I never said any of those phrases. Not much left when you do. I guess that's what they mean by spin. My point is that it is hardly "COURAGEOUS" to have those views.
But I do agree with your sentiment. Kern's views are hardly surprising or unusual around these parts. They are still outrageous beliefs. What the heck were the state Dems thinking? Why not just stipulate that we can't win that particular race and spend the money elsewhere?
As long as they waste there money somewhere then there is less money to spend elsewhere. Although a Oklahoma democrat is probably more conservative than a New York or Massachusetts republican.
Quote from: jamesrage on October 06, 2009, 08:25:09 PM
As long as they waste there money somewhere then there is less money to spend elsewhere. Although a Oklahoma democrat is probably more conservative than a New York or Massachusetts republican.
You got that right. Boren would be a republican anywhere else.
Quote from: USRufnex on October 06, 2009, 06:25:31 PM
Fake outrage?
Here's the quote:
Homosexuality is "the biggest threat that our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam."
Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFxk7glmMbo
If you're not outraged by crap like this, I don't know what to tell you.
What I am outraged by is the media silence anytime there is homosexual/tranny indoctrination going on in some of the schools across the country or when a democrat does some smile, but yet some unknown republican politician makes a comment about radical gays the liberal media shits a fucken brick. Just another example of liberal media hypocrisy. Republican cheats on his wife and it is news for days or even weeks or if there is some alleged solicitation for gay sex it involving a unknown republican its gets coverage for weeks. But yet a democrat cheats of his hospitalized wife it gets mentioned only for a day or two and if he cheated on his hospitalized with another man then he is a brave man for coming out of the closet(in a liberal state) and gets invited to talk on Oprah to not talk about what a scumbag he is but for what a brave man he is.
I think what she said is an exageration but I am not appalled nor outraged. The only thing I am outraged about this whole thing is the nerve of people from other districts and other states demanding that she resign and the vile hate email they sent that woman.
Quote from: waterboy on October 06, 2009, 08:33:02 PM
You got that right. Boren would be a republican anywhere else.
He would probably be labeled a right wing extremist by Rudy Giuliani or Mitt Romney if ran against one those two in that area of the country.
No. He wouldn't. Boren endorsed Obama...
Thanks for sharing your insight on "that area of the country."
Let us know where else you've lived to be able to share that kind of perspective.....
Oh, and keep playing the victim card there, James, it suits you. ::)
Quote from: buckeye on October 01, 2009, 12:24:10 PM
I'm sure this comes off as terrifically insensitive, but nobody's ever been able to explain to me why transgendered pursuits aren't classified as some kind of body dysmorphic disorder. It's a fixation on a perceived bodily flaw, right? Whether it comes along with emotional difficulties, I don't know.
Buckeye, I don't know if you're a man or a woman, but let's assume you're a straight guy. You've always known you were a guy, you are happy being a guy, you think like a guy, and you've always been attracted to women. Now you look down and see that you were born with a woman's body. How does that make you feel? Everybody treats you like a woman. How does that make you feel? Men come on to you. But, remember, you're a straight guy, who likes woman.
This isn't the same thing as being a body-builder who thinks he's skinny, or an anorexic who thinks she's fat.
My knowledge of this topic is limited, but I do know one person who has "transitioned." You have to live openly for a certain period of time as a man or woman (depending on what you are on the inside) before anyone will perform the surgery. Then, you have to be able to afford the surgery. Many people have to go to other countries to get it done. (Thailand is apparantly a great option.) But just b/c you haven't done the surgery, doesn't change the reality of who you are, which is defined from the inside out.
I know plenty of guys with man boobs. It doesn't make them a woman.
Quote from: USRufnex on October 07, 2009, 08:56:29 AM
No. He wouldn't. Boren endorsed Obama...
So did Colin Powell
Quote from: USRufnex on October 07, 2009, 08:56:29 AM
No. He wouldn't.
Yes he would.
He supports the right to bear arms, is against gay marriage, rated 82% by the National Right to Life Committee, Rated 0% by the HRC, indicating an anti-gay-rights stance, Voted YES on Constitutionally defining marriage as one-man-one-woman, Voted YES on making the PATRIOT Act permanent in 2005, has a hard anti-drug stance, Voted NO on allowing Courts to decide on "God" in Pledge of Allegiance, Pro-2nd amendment, Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border and Voted YES on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project.
http://ontheissues.org/House/Dan_Boren.htm
Quote
Boren endorsed Obama...
A democrat tow=eing party like to support another democrat just I am sure a lot of conservative republicans in other parts of the country toed the party line and supported John McCain, Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney. It doesn't change the fact that those are liberals and if someone with their same views ran here would have to do so as a liberal democrat and most likely would get their donkey stomped by a conservative democrat.
Ponder, thanks for the additional thoughts.
It very quickly gets into tricky questions of gender. To me, hardware is essentially permanent - software is subject to bugs but is also largely re-writable. Not only that, but the hardware to some significant degree dictates what you run on it. Now when the hardware is funky from the factory, well then you have some real questions...
You're right, I've always been happy as a straight man and can't make any sense of why somebody in my shoes would do things any differently. Not hateful, just the way I see it. Maybe not on this forum, but I once pontificated about a guy working nearby who always wears women's shoes and very tight fitting girl cut pants. He walks funny, likely as a result of his fashion choices. I thought he put himself in a bad spot, as he makes a concerted effort to ignore one of the chief advantages of his gender and what people expect of it - comfortable clothing.
Quote from: buckeye on October 08, 2009, 05:02:38 PM
one of the chief advantages of his gender and what people expect of it - comfortable clothing.
Plenty of guys are still slaves to uncomfortable fashion.
I vote against coat and tie. I certainly vote for loose, non-constricting pants.
Pshaw, good sir! If a coat and tie is the most uncomfortable thing in a man's wardrobe, we're still well winning the comfort race. I'd much rather wear tails all day than pointy high-heeled shoes for an hour.
QuoteOklahoma City attorney Brittany Novotny, a Democrat, on Tuesday filed to run for the seat held by Rep. Sally Kern, R-Oklahoma City.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=262&articleid=20100608_298_0_OKLAHO225022 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=262&articleid=20100608_298_0_OKLAHO225022)
Looks like Novotny should win based on brains AND looks...
(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2010/Thumbs/20100608_novotneyweb0608_package.jpg) (http://www.okhouse.gov/Members/Pictures/SallyKernx175.jpg)
It must sting when the woman who used to be a man wins the looks category.
Here's a straightforward question - how does one's genitalia matter when it comes to doing the people's business? I thought ideas and issues were the important bits.
So true, Ed! But there must be something important about those other bits... Something must explain why Oklahoma ranks 49th in the nation for women serving in the state legislature...
Simultaneously (what a surprise!) Oklahoma ranks near the bottom of all states for women's issues such as health and well being, insurance coverage, reproductive rights, equitable pay, college education, business ownership, etc.
Sadly, Sally Kern proves that not every woman is an advocate for women...or Oklahomans in general.
We complain when politicians won't discuss anything of substance, and instead substitute sound bites with simple answers to complex questions. We get politicians who claim to be the same 'common men' as the rest of us. You'll excuse me, please, but I don't want an average guy or gal making public policy. I want my representative, my senator, my governor, or my president to be the smartest guy in the room. I don't want common. I want extraordinary.
Sadly, far too many of our political class play to the cheap seats, tailoring their campaigns and their rhetoric to what will get them elected rather than what will serve their constituents. They lie to us. We know they lie to us, yet they get elected anyway.
(Topic creep) That may be one effect of California's change in the primary system. They elected to go to an open primary. You vote for whoever you like, regardless of party affiliation. The two candidates with the highest vote counts face each other in the general election - again - regardless of their party. The hope is that this will cause more centrist candidates to reach the general election rather than ideologues.
Quote from: PonderInc on June 10, 2010, 04:33:48 PM
So true, Ed! But there must be something important about those other bits... Something must explain why Oklahoma ranks 49th in the nation for women serving in the state legislature...
Simultaneously (what a surprise!) Oklahoma ranks near the bottom of all states for women's issues such as health and well being, insurance coverage, reproductive rights, equitable pay, college education, business ownership, etc.
Sadly, Sally Kern proves that not every woman is an advocate for women...or Oklahomans in general.
It could also be that women are too smart to run for State Senate and State House and leave that foolishness to the cavemen of our state.
There's a strong possibility we may wind up with the first female/female gubernatorial race in our state history and we've had two strong female mayors in Tulsa, we have a female on the county commission, we have female judges, and other elected officials. A fairer yardstick would be to see how many women file for office vs. how many win their campaigns. I think they've had pretty good success.
Now as far as Sally Kern, she's an advocate for women, just not the gay ones, athiest ones, aldulterous ones, harlots, okay, I'll shut up now. Personally, I'd love to see Miss Novotny win that race.
Since a real man couldn't beat Sally Kern in 2008, I can't see how anyone else can beat he unless he or she promises to out Sally, Sally, and that would only make things more undesirable.