My apologies to those of Scottish descent, but I cannot believe the Scottish government released one of those Lockerbie bombers that killed 270 people (189 Americans) on grounds of mercy/compassion. Poor guy has prostate cancer and will likely die soon. Where was this fckr's mercy for those that were minding their own business and were blown out of the sky.
http://www.mercurynews.com/nationworld/ci_13167472
And where was our government? I thought this scum is under a U.S. indictment for this act that killed mostly Americans, why did we not demand the Scottish government turn him over to us pursuant to treaty for prosecution?
Actually it's pretty interesting. It points up a marked difference in culture. As the article says:
QuoteJustice Secretary Kenny MacAskill said Abdel Baset al-Megrahi's condition had deteriorated from prostate cancer. Al-Megrahi had only served some eight years of a life sentence, but MacAskill said he was bound by Scottish values to release him.
"Our belief dictates that justice be served but mercy be shown," MacAskill said, ruling that al-Megrahi "be released on compassionate grounds and be allowed to return to Libya to die."
"Some hurts can never heal, some scars can never fade," MacAskill said. "Those who have been bereaved cannot be expected to forget, let alone forgive ... However, Mr. al-Megrahi now faces a sentence imposed by a higher power."
Kind of an interesting counterpoint to our own American Fury/Justice system.
And as to our government's reax, just read on in the same article:
QuoteThe White House said Thursday it "deeply regrets" the decision to free al-Megrahi.
"As we have expressed repeatedly to officials of the government of the United Kingdom and to Scottish authorities, we continue to believe that Megrahi should serve out his sentence in Scotland," the White House said in a statement. "On this day, we extend our deepest sympathies to the families who live every day with the loss of their loved ones."
Earlier, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton phoned MacAskill urging him not to release al-Megrahi, and seven U.S. senators wrote a letter with a similar message.
Quote from: we vs us on August 20, 2009, 10:50:12 PM
Kind of an interesting counterpoint to our own American Fury/Justice system.
Whatever, you America-bashing tool. Hey, let's let John Gotti go because he had cancer. This terrorist killed 189 AMERICANS, so stuff the American fury crap.
Quote from: guido911 on August 20, 2009, 11:15:19 PM
Whatever, you America-bashing tool. Hey, let's let John Gotti go because he had cancer. This terrorist killed 189 AMERICANS, so stuff the American fury crap.
Look, our justice system has a hefty investment in vengeance. Compared to other justice systems that give mercy and forgiveness a higher premium, such as -- mirabilis dictu! -- the Scots!
We're the people who created the Supermax prison. We believe in the death penalty. We believe in vengeance. Europeans, as a rule, do not. Or believe in it less than we do. That's my entire point here. It's self evident, based on your response to the Scots.
I'm not bashing anybody here, just pointing out the difference. So back off with the unAmerican bullsmile, douchebag.
It's really unbelieveable.... What a slap in the face to all those families that had loved ones killied the crash......I have no words....But some on this forum more than likely think we deserve it....
Quote from: we vs us on August 20, 2009, 11:33:52 PM
Look, our justice system has a hefty investment in vengeance. Compared to other justice systems that give mercy and forgiveness a higher premium, such as -- mirabilis dictu! -- the Scots!
We're the people who created the Supermax prison. We believe in the death penalty. We believe in vengeance. Europeans, as a rule, do not. Or believe in it less than we do. That's my entire point here. It's self evident, based on your response to the Scots.
I'm not bashing anybody here, just pointing out the difference. So back off with the unAmerican bullsmile, dou
O.... and btw....I hope we can meet some day so I can kick you in the balls.....
Thanks for the civil discussion, gents. This thread is all yours.
Quote from: we vs us on August 21, 2009, 06:28:08 AM
Thanks for the civil discussion, gents. This thread is all yours.
Did you really expect anything more from them?
Good headline. ::)
Yeah, everyone who disagrees with us (conservative, well educated, wealthy, capitalist, militarist, chauvinist).... sucks. Scotland sucks. France sucks. Those countries with "socialized medicine"?? England, Canada, France? They all suck. We know Russia sucks. Any country who didn't join the Iraq Freedom Coalition are charter members of the suck club. And don't get me started on those socialist Scandanavian countries. They really suck. India, in fact all Hindus, suck. We're watching Japan, Germany and the Phillipines real closely. Some indication they might suck too. China? Huge suck.
In fact, the suck list is now so large that it is threatening to engulf major parts of the United States. Blue states suck. Demographically speaking, Progressives, Moderates, RINO's, mainstream religion, anyone without a loaded gun....they all suck.
Pretty soon most of the civilized world will just be one big sucking sound.
Quote from: we vs us on August 21, 2009, 06:28:08 AM
Thanks for the civil discussion, gents. This thread is all yours.
Civil discussion? You come right out of the box talking about American "fury" and "hefty investment in vengeance" and you expect civility? 189 Americans were murdered. I demand justice, and you take the pu$$y side of the debate and complain that Americans are just too darned tough on people. This guy was being punished for murder.
I am 100% pro-life (i.e anti-abortion and anti-capital punishment), which is well documented on this forum. I guy that kills 270 innocent people, however, does not deserve compassion. Incidentally, he was welcomed as a hero in Libya:
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/08/21/scotland.lockerbie.bomber/
Quote from: waterboy on August 21, 2009, 07:37:55 AM
Good headline. ::)
Yeah, everyone who disagrees with us (conservative, well educated, wealthy, capitalist, militarist, chauvinist).... sucks. Scotland sucks. France sucks. Those countries with "socialized medicine"?? England, Canada, France? They all suck. We know Russia sucks. Any country who didn't join the Iraq Freedom Coalition are charter members of the suck club. And don't get me started on those socialist Scandanavian countries. They really suck. India, in fact all Hindus, suck. We're watching Japan, Germany and the Phillipines real closely. Some indication they might suck too. China? Huge suck.
In fact, the suck list is now so large that it is threatening to engulf major parts of the United States. Blue states suck. Demographically speaking, Progressives, Moderates, RINO's, mainstream religion, anyone without a loaded gun....they all suck.
Pretty soon most of the civilized world will just be one big sucking sound.
And Waterboy sucks.
The victim's families have their say:
Susan Cohen, who lost her 20-year-old daughter, was adamant about her position, calling al Megrahi a "mass murderer" and his release "appalling."
"Are we so devastatingly weak now, have we lost all our moral fiber that you can say that Megrahi can be released from prison for a compassionate release? Where was his compassion for my daughter? Where was his compassion for all those people," Cohen told "American Morning." Bert Ammerman, whose brother died in the bombing, called al Megrahi's release "ludicrous."
"First of all, he got his compassionate release when he got life imprisonment and not capital punishment, which Scotland doesn't have," Ammerman told CNN. He should have remained in prison, then after his death, his body could have been returned to Libya, he said."
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/08/21/scotland.lockerbie.bomber/
Interesting to put it into another perspective.
Quote from: we vs us on August 21, 2009, 06:28:08 AM
Thanks for the civil discussion, gents. This thread is all yours.
The church at
Our Lady of Ad Hominem Hyperbole welcomes you..... ;D
The problem here is that you've over reached..... Scotland released the only convicted terrorist in the Lockerbee bombing, a bombing that killed 259 people--11 on the ground, and he was given a hero's welcome the minute he got back to Libya.
Want to argue about our country having the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world? I'm there.
Want to argue against capital punishment? I'll respectfully disagree, but admit how disgusted I was at how many people on death row in Illinois were wrongfully convicted....
I fear the decision in Scotland has more to do with politics and "diplomatic relations" than it does justice or "mercy" ---
After Lockerbie bomber's return, silence in LibyaBy TAREK EL-TABLAWY (AP)
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gN5mvrwjbdEXgoGbOvFyoOJsAtggD9A79SR00
When I say "fury" I actually mean "super angry." You can look at Guido's post and find "super angry" right there plain as day. Guido is not alone in how he feels in this.
When I say "vengeance" I actually mean "revenge for deeds previously committed." Take a gander at Guido's post and you'll find that, too. Guido is not alone how he feels in this.
Look at the Scottish guy's actual statement for evidence that he released the Lockerbie bomber because of "mercy." He actually says it.
It's pretty well known that Americans tend to favor a heavy mix of punishment in with our sentencing. We are not by and large big on mercy or forgiveness or rehabilitation. Especially when compared with Europe (of which, for this argument, Scotland should be considered a part). Europeans by and large do not believe in the death penalty, do not approve of supermax-style incarceration, and in general favor mercy and rehabilitation.
While what I wrote was seemingly taken as a classic "blame America first" response, I was in fact stating some pretty obvious facts.
I then ended with "kind of an interesting counterpoint to our American Fury/Justice system." Which I think it is.
But you know, it's useless for me to argue with people who want to "kick me in the balls" for my perceived unamerican-ness. Those of you who have open minds or who have met me know how ridiculous that is.
Anyway, the raving-maniac discourse on here is just over the top. Again, the thread is yours gentlemen.
Quote from: USRufnex on August 21, 2009, 09:08:30 AM
I fear the decision in Scotland has more to do with politics and "diplomatic relations" than it does justice or "mercy" ---
Nailed it. +1
What's with the hostility? If someone doesn't agree with your perspective they are an anti-American tool or they "suck"? No one defended the man's underlying actions or applauded the murders in any way. I don't think meeting their posts with insults was called for or constructive.
That said: it is an interesting topic and good points brought up. I think it was mostly a political move to assert the independence of Scottland (the current Scott government wants to establish an independence movement). Without commenting on the merits and given that this turd will soon be dead, I'm glad we didn't spend a $100,000+ worrying about him.
Quote from: guido911 on August 21, 2009, 07:43:29 AM
And Waterboy sucks.
Obviously since I might disagree.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on August 21, 2009, 11:54:10 AM
What's with the hostility? If someone doesn't agree with your perspective they are an anti-American tool or they "suck"?
That reaction was beaten into us for many years. It's difficult for some to break the habit.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on August 21, 2009, 11:54:10 AM
What's with the hostility? If someone doesn't agree with your perspective they are an anti-American tool or they "suck"? No one defended the man's underlying actions or applauded the murders in any way. I don't think meeting their posts with insults was called for or constructive.
That said: it is an interesting topic and good points brought up. I think it was mostly a political move to assert the independence of Scottland (the current Scott government wants to establish an independence movement). Without commenting on the merits and given that this turd will soon be dead, I'm glad we didn't spend a $100,000+ worrying about him.
My "slap" at Waterboy was an ill-fated joke. My "slap" at wevsus was intended and I stand by it. But thanks for passing judgment...
I figured as much. I was just trying to make a point in a round about sort of way. You went straight to the middle.
For the record, I AM Scottish and I've never sucked, other than on a single malt :)
Quote from: guido911 on August 21, 2009, 01:03:11 PM
But thanks for passing judgment...
QuoteGuido wrote
Whatever, you America-bashing tool.
QuoteMathew wrote in 7:1
Judge not lest ye' be judged.
;D
Work must be stressing you out or something.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on August 21, 2009, 03:01:30 PM
;D
Work must be stressing you out or something.
What work, I thought he was on a three month tax avoidance sabbatical?
Quote from: guido911 on August 21, 2009, 11:49:39 AM
Nailed it. +1
This is gonna be a political softball for Obama. Taylor-made for David Axelrod.
Unless Obama gets too professorial, he can easily hit this one out of the park.
He will use strong, forceful language, but will stop just short of the "axis of evil" rhetoric Bush used, so he can continue to piss off the lunatic right for not being patriotic enough...... they're so easy.
Quote from: swake on August 21, 2009, 03:11:39 PM
What work, I thought he was on a three month tax avoidance sabbatical?
That WAS my plan (I technically do not work for a law firm). However, I still get calls/business referrals. You know, "Just when I think I was out, they pull me back in". O/T. No stress at all.
I say the guy is a known terrorist and we should go rendition him :D
Quote from: Conan71 on August 21, 2009, 02:32:08 PM
For the record, I AM Scottish and I've never sucked, other than on a single malt :)
Have a favorite?
Macallan is quite good, I think and I like some of the "Glens" as well.
And here is the inevitable "boycott Scotland" website:
http://www.boycottscotland.com/
Since I don't drink Scotch nor have I any intention of visiting the U.K., there is little I can do to show my indignation over the decision to release this murdering POS.
The Lockerbie bomber is not only still alive, his family is hopeful for his improved health.
http://news.oneindia.in/2010/03/01/familysays-lockerbie-bomber-could-beatcancer.html
Again, job well done Scotland!
http://sounds.wavcentral.com/televis/snl/scottish_crap.mp3
Obama wants the Lockerbie bomber jailed. Good call.
http://dailycaller.com/2010/08/20/obama-seeks-reimprisonment-for-lockerbie-bomber/