Communist controlled China, as reported in the TW, made its presence known in the petroleum industry by the purchase of the gasoline tank farms of the bankrupted Tulsa based SemGroup for 65.35M out bidding Quick Trip possibility the largest distributor of gasoline in the area. China warned our delegates to get our inflation under control and stabilize the value of our currency in the payoff of the near trillion dollars in the trade balance of payments due them.
Can this be construed to mean they are going to use their (our issued) valueless dollars to buy our prime properties in order to control the falling values in the exchanges of the dollar?
Has the trade war begin where we can trade sport concessions, rap music and frolicking among the tulips for the steel and other stable products they have in trade?
I love presents.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on August 15, 2009, 04:46:51 PM
I love presents.
Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He is giving you a present tied with a red ribbon. Make sure you want foreign price control on the mass use of gasoline before you open it and let the Genie out. Ask the Native Indian how it works when your society comes under foreign control.
Didn't the Japanese do this same thing back when the Yen was strong relative to the dollar? They bought extensive real estate holdings in California and Hawaii, if I recall right, and the same dire warnings were sounded then too. Guess what - the planet kept spinning on its axis.
Aren't the Chinese simply indulging in (gasp!) capitalism? We financed two wars with credit, most of it on loans from China, so they're just using that leverage and the cheap dollar to purchase American businesses. Who was naive enough to think they wouldn't use that economic clout?
Quote from: Ed W on August 15, 2009, 06:40:52 PM
Didn't the Japanese do this same thing back when the Yen was strong relative to the dollar? They bought extensive real estate holdings in California and Hawaii, if I recall right, and the same dire warnings were sounded then too. Guess what - the planet kept spinning on its axis.
Aren't the Chinese simply indulging in (gasp!) capitalism? We financed two wars with credit, most of it on loans from China, so they're just using that leverage and the cheap dollar to purchase American businesses. Who was naive enough to think they wouldn't use that economic clout?
"W". ;)
Quote from: Ed W on August 15, 2009, 06:40:52 PM
Didn't the Japanese do this same thing back when the Yen was strong relative to the dollar? They bought extensive real estate holdings in California and Hawaii, if I recall right, and the same dire warnings were sounded then too. Guess what - the planet kept spinning on its axis.
Aren't the Chinese simply indulging in (gasp!) capitalism? We financed two wars with credit, most of it on loans from China, so they're just using that leverage and the cheap dollar to purchase American businesses. Who was naive enough to think they wouldn't use that economic clout?
Silences of the lamb. Guess what; Japan has the worlds largest Bank while our banks are having to be supported by dollars that our great grand children are to pay off. They have a holding of which the driveway to its headquarters is 40 miles long in the US.
China under communism deals in loans payable over 100 years with a population of 1.2B with average wealth of $3.460 in an area a little larger then US. It has been an nation since about 5,000 B.C.E.
The Native American Indian's society operated without jobs as we know them. Cortez, under the direction of the church and the king of Spain plundered societies advanced beyond the cultures of Europe which extended from the Red River to the southern tip of South America. The ruins of these civilizations are now being uncovered. The Gold had no value except as being used for ornaments.
We have spent 5 years reinstalling the exiled government of Iraqi where we have lost face as those in the coalition with us sacked up and went home.
We have not change the face of the planet but like the dog that fakes sleep, waiting for the prey, others are waiting for us to dispense of our resources.
Quote from: shadows on August 16, 2009, 06:43:52 PM
Guess what; Japan has the worlds largest Bank
In what world? Not this one. The largest bank in Japan is "Mitsubishi UFJ Financial, MUFG" also known as the Bank of Tokyo Mitsubishi. Total assets of around $1 trillion USD. Bank of America has about $2.8 trillion in assets. According to the figures I looked up Japan has the worlds #10 largest bank (at best) and no other banks in the top 10.
I can't comment on what Cortez, the Red River, or the exiled government of Iraq has to say about it. :-X
And I though Japan bought all our assets in the 1980's and that the Arabs were the real threat to buy America out now.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on August 17, 2009, 01:59:46 PM
In what world? Not this one. The largest bank in Japan is "Mitsubishi UFJ Financial, MUFG" also known as the Bank of Tokyo Mitsubishi. Total assets of around $1 trillion USD. Bank of America has about $2.8 trillion in assets. According to the figures I looked up Japan has the worlds #10 largest bank (at best) and no other banks in the top 10.
I was using the TIME ALMANAC in their assessing the Japan banking industry.
I assume your are talking about the BOA with assets in trillions of dollars which included loans in default or behind in payment of the loans as assets made up from the working poor depositors savings that was pasted out on shaky loans. Is this the same bank that required billions of dollars in government grants to pay their salaries and current bills or they would declare bankruptcy? I have been trying to get my deposit of two nickels straiten out since last November with telo, E-mail and postal. Not sure even now if it has been straiten out.
China's presence in the storage arena should be considered as a debt that will be paid off by increasing gasoline prices attributed to the collecting of the fuel and storage of it. Tulsa with its high usage of fuel will feel the results by the increasing of gasoline which may return to the $5.00 level.
Quote from: shadows on August 16, 2009, 06:43:52 PM
Silences of the lamb. Guess what; Japan has the worlds largest Bank while our banks are having to be supported by dollars that our great grand children are to pay off. They have a holding of which the driveway to its headquarters is 40 miles long in the US.
China under communism deals in loans payable over 100 years with a population of 1.2B with average wealth of $3.460 in an area a little larger then US. It has been an nation since about 5,000 B.C.E.
The Native American Indian's society operated without jobs as we know them. Cortez, under the direction of the church and the king of Spain plundered societies advanced beyond the cultures of Europe which extended from the Red River to the southern tip of South America. The ruins of these civilizations are now being uncovered. The Gold had no value except as being used for ornaments.
We have spent 5 years reinstalling the exiled government of Iraqi where we have lost face as those in the coalition with us sacked up and went home.
We have not change the face of the planet but like the dog that fakes sleep, waiting for the prey, others are waiting for us to dispense of our resources.
The USA has the largest bank ....it's called the Federal Reserve and it's a socialist shill for capitalism.
Quote from: FOTD on August 18, 2009, 12:01:28 AM
The USA has the largest bank ....it's called the Federal Reserve and it's a socialist shill for capitalism.
As I understand it, "socialism" means government ownership of business and industry. Could someone explain to me (in short words, please) what the word means when it's used by our own conservatives?
Quote from: Ed W on August 18, 2009, 05:21:32 PM
As I understand it, "socialism" means government ownership of business and industry. Could someone explain to me (in short words, please) what the word means when it's used by our own conservatives?
Found it....
In the 1980's Oklahoma passed a law that foreign countries could not own real estate in Oklahoma. I would like to find out more about this DEAL! When is it supposed to be final?
Technically, yardman, China did not purchase the asset. A company based in China did. I am not aware what, if any, ownership stake the Chinese government may have in the company.
Quote from: yardman on August 18, 2009, 08:31:30 PM
In the 1980's Oklahoma passed a law that foreign countries could not own real estate in Oklahoma. I would like to find out more about this DEAL! When is it supposed to be final?
In a recent article in the TW it pointed out that there was a riot in China because the Chinese communist government was trying to sell an industry to a private group. In today TW is the article about the foreign owned steel mill in Sand Springs closing. Shell gasoline outlets are foreign own. The BA telephone system is foreign owned I believe. Some Automobile and Tire manufactures among others states are foreign owned. The foreign ownership of many of the industries are not subject to the Freedom Of Information. The ownership of any group of citizens of a foreign country can be construed to be no more than foreign ownership in eight grade language
Shadows, I think your lack of information in this area is even more so than most. When a corporation is "foreign owned" it means it it being purchased by a foreign corporation or entity. It is fairly rare for a sovereign entity to purchase a foreign company (Ports World Dubai and Citgo are noted exceptions). Toyota USA is foreign owned - but employs tens of thousands of Americans, has plants in America, has American share holders, and is governed by American law.
Foreign investment in your country is a mark of success. Not failure. If a group of people in Japan want to take capital and invest it in jobs and infrastructure in my nation it is beneficial to the US. Countries seek foreign investment actively.
Furthermore, no company is subject to the Free of Information act. It applies to the government and governmental entities. Which a foreign owned company is not.
QuoteThe ownership of any group of citizens of a foreign country can be construed to be no more than foreign ownership in eight grade language
Translation needed.
Chinese presents:
(http://www.pocketmoneyplus.net/userimages/3417976448.jpg)
(http://www.store.new-age-gifts.com/images/chinese%20gifts%20with%20lettering.jpg)
Quoted shadows:
The ownership of any group of citizens of a foreign country can be construed to be no more than foreign ownership in eight grade language
---------------------------------------------------------------
Quoted CF
Translation needed.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The translation of foreign ownership could be available from the principal chief of the creek nation, who the claim of your nation circumvented the ownership of those who were assigned here by some unknown source. Then removed to the present location and now prohibited by your city and county from claiming jurisdiction over the land your government assigned to them.
Governments to you have become superficial persons taking on a image of their own which overshadows the rights of the people. Governments are a creation of the people. Governments cannot exist without citizens. Therefore foreign ownership by the citizens cannot be excluded from the fact that they represent the makeup of the superficial person of which they are attached and in time only to dominate the citizens.
As you are aware the eighth grade language level was established as a standard.
I was not aware an eight grade education has been adopted anywhere as a standard.
What I think you are trying to say is:
Foreign corporations are not own by foreign governments, but they are often owned by citizens of that government. Since government are fictitious bodies given power by their citizens, the effect is the same. The Thus, the result is the control of U.S. assets by citizens of a foreign nation, which can be construed as effective ownership by that nation.
- - -
However, your analysis fails for three main reasons:
#1) Citizen action is not indicative of governmental action. Citizens lack many powers granted to a sovereign. Thus, their control of assets is less ominous.
#2) Control is not necessarily vested in foreign citizens. In many, if not most instances the foreign corporation is subject to US jurisdiction and reporting laws. Often the corporation is held largely by US interests since they are publicly traded. The notion that GM is an "American company" is largely illusory as the nationality of owners is immaterial for their common purpose of stock ownership - making money. (to wit: the national pride thing is a joke as all the auto makers were positioned in WWII to profit if either the allies or the axis power won the war. Ford sold vehicles to the Axis and to the Allies and then received reparations from the allies for damage to their German plants. In the end of the day, business exist to make money, like it or not).
#3) Individual actors rarely have a single mind. It is highly unlikely that you would convince a majority of Japanese/Chinese/Middle Eastern owners of [insert whatever asset here] to do something detrimental to themselves in an united effort to screw the United States. While China may be willing as a single sovereign to take a loss on US T-Bills to prove a point it is unlikely a multitude of individuals would be willing to make such a personal sacrifice.
Thus, given my current translation of your prose, I remain unconcerned. I also remain confused as to what the Creek Nation has to do with anything.
I dunno, something about the Creek Nation being a sovereign nation and they are buying up south Tulsa, or essentially buying back the land we gave them then renegged on the deal and claimed it for our own when we figured out there was this thingy called oil under said land?
(sorry for the run-on)
Quote from: cannon_fodder on August 24, 2009, 04:28:33 PM
I was not aware an eight grade education has been adopted anywhere as a standard.
What I think you are trying to say is:
Foreign corporations are not own by foreign governments, but they are often owned by citizens of that government. Since government are fictitious bodies given power by their citizens, the effect is the same. The Thus, the result is the control of U.S. assets by citizens of a foreign nation, which can be construed as effective ownership by that nation.
- - -
However, your analysis fails for three main reasons:
#1) Citizen action is not indicative of governmental action. Citizens lack many powers granted to a sovereign. Thus, their control of assets is less ominous.
#2) Control is not necessarily vested in foreign citizens. In many, if not most instances the foreign corporation is subject to US jurisdiction and reporting laws. Often the corporation is held largely by US interests since they are publicly traded. The notion that GM is an "American company" is largely illusory as the nationality of owners is immaterial for their common purpose of stock ownership - making money. (to wit: the national pride thing is a joke as all the auto makers were positioned in WWII to profit if either the allies or the axis power won the war. Ford sold vehicles to the Axis and to the Allies and then received reparations from the allies for damage to their German plants. In the end of the day, business exist to make money, like it or not).
#3) Individual actors rarely have a single mind. It is highly unlikely that you would convince a majority of Japanese/Chinese/Middle Eastern owners of [insert whatever asset here] to do something detrimental to themselves in an united effort to screw the United States. While China may be willing as a single sovereign to take a loss on US T-Bills to prove a point it is unlikely a multitude of individuals would be willing to make such a personal sacrifice.
Thus, given my current translation of your prose, I remain unconcerned. I also remain confused as to what the Creek Nation has to do with anything.
No, I am trying to say that "governments just powers are derived from the people."
I understood you were an attorney. You should go back to the TU law library and do a little research on the eighth grade level requirements.
Conan 71, even in semi-jest makes the point.
China Racing Ahead of America in the Drive to Go Solar
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/business/energy-environment/25solar.html?_r=2&hp
Tribal disputes ruining America's competitive advantage!