According to a Tulsa World Article (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20090611_298_0_Unlimi649414&archive=yes) a company from Oklahoma City has been selected to do downtown upkeep (sweeping, trash, tree trimming, weeds, landscaping, mowing, etc.).
The winning bid: $223,227 by Unlimited Sweepers and Cleaners LLC
Backup winner: $273,696, by Lot Maintenance of Oklahoma Inc. (of Tulsa)
DTU's bid: $483,003. DTU's previous contract: $952,000 (this INCLUDES promotion, trolley, and some other services for downtown also).
The Invitation to Bid form:
http://204.62.23.97/Spec/TAC%20843%20Public%20Property%20Maintenance%20-%20bid%20specs.doc
Sounds like the little ivory tower will be dismantled at long last. Anyone else bet Jim Norton saw this coming?
It does irritate me that an OKC company wound up with the business, but I would assume they will employ local workers and spend money locally.
I hate to see it go to an OKC group as well, but its about time we damned up the DTU money river.
Quote from: jne on June 12, 2009, 10:04:28 AM
I hate to see it go to an OKC group as well, but its about time we damned up the DTU money river.
Maybe we can get the rash of Acorn streetlights under control, and start replacing them with something more economical and night-vision friendly that will make people fell better about downtown at night.
I think I saw a news spot or something the other night about some lights going in downtown that were not acorns. Was I dreaming or was that someplace else?
Quote from: Red Arrow on June 12, 2009, 12:02:12 PM
I think I saw a news spot or something the other night about some lights going in downtown that were not acorns. Was I dreaming or was that someplace else?
The park at 6th and Main has non-acorns and GKFF is funding a brad feasibility study which won't pic acorns.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on June 12, 2009, 08:23:39 AM
According to a Tulsa World Article (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20090611_298_0_Unlimi649414&archive=yes) a company from Oklahoma City has been selected to do downtown upkeep (sweeping, trash, tree trimming, weeds, landscaping, mowing, etc.).
The winning bid: $223,227 by Unlimited Sweepers and Cleaners LLC
Backup winner: $273,696, by Lot Maintenance of Oklahoma Inc. (of Tulsa)
DTU's bid: $483,003. DTU's previous contract: $952,000 (this INCLUDES promotion, trolley, and some other services for downtown also).
The Invitation to Bid form:
http://204.62.23.97/Spec/TAC%20843%20Public%20Property%20Maintenance%20-%20bid%20specs.doc
DTU had a trolley?
Also, marketing was only like 5% of DTU's budget.
DTU didn't have a trolley, but they subcontracted with Bill White Co. to run a morning/evening parking shuttle which basically ferried people to and from...uh...Bill White parking lots. (Weird use of public dollars, if you ask me.)
I wonder if a REAL circulator trolley could be subsidized? Like a lunch and evening T-town trolley that would help get folks around downtown without their cars. (If it could also run in the mornings to help people who park in the back 40, that's gravy.)
The T-Town Trolley runs on advertising revenue and sponsorships. I wonder if they could become the downtown circulator, if they received supplemental funds from the Stadium Improvement District money?
Quote from: sgrizzle on June 12, 2009, 08:03:16 PM
DTU had a trolley?
Also, marketing was only like 5% of DTU's budget.
Just reporting what the articles/budgets said.
Quote from: PonderInc on June 16, 2009, 09:49:58 AM
DTU didn't have a trolley, but they subcontracted with Bill White Co. to run a morning/evening parking shuttle which basically ferried people to and from...uh...Bill White parking lots. (Weird use of public dollars, if you ask me.)
DTU paid for that? I thought it was part of the parking fee you paid to Bill White.
That's nuts.
Does this mean the main mall golf cart cop is done? I certainly hope so. Talk about a waste of money. If someone thinks a cop is needed to sit out on the main mall during business hours, they probably shouldn't ever leave their house.
As someone who walks around the desolate parts of downtown late at night all the time, it rubs me the wrong way that the cop is only there when no sane person has any reason to feel unsafe.
If this parking shuttle is reincarnated in some way, I really hope it includes service of more value than the Bill White shuttle. That was another huge waste of money, giving people rides so they don't have to walk four blocks.
Quote from: sgrizzle on June 12, 2009, 08:03:16 PM
DTU had a trolley?
Faux trolley. Rubber tires, internal combustion engine, not rail guided.....
Not a bad idea, just not a real trolley.
See other replies for actual ownership.
Quote from: TheTed on June 16, 2009, 12:12:31 PM
Does this mean the main mall golf cart cop is done? I certainly hope so. Talk about a waste of money. If someone thinks a cop is needed to sit out on the main mall during business hours, they probably shouldn't ever leave their house.
As someone who walks around the desolate parts of downtown late at night all the time, it rubs me the wrong way that the cop is only there when no sane person has any reason to feel unsafe.
Yes, the golf cart cop was a total joke. He was paid to hang out in the core of the CBD in the morning (about 6:00-8:00 AM), and for a few hours in the afternoon. (Basically, the safest times and places imaginable in the entire city of Tulsa.) Mostly, I saw him in the convenience store on the main mall.
I asked him one time why he didn't go over to 1st and Cheyenne, where there were drug deals going all day long, and he said he wasn't supposed to go over there. He had "boundaries" within the CBD. Another friend saw him hanging out deep in the shade inside the old Mayo parking garage most afternoons. He also alerted him to a drug deal going on, and the guy basically replied: "So what?"
There are folks who believe there is value in having cops be "visible" during busy times of the day downtown. Not because it's unsafe, but b/c it creates the "perception of safety," and more people are around to see the illusion during this time. I think this is backwards.
The TPD talks about how much it costs on BOK event nights, and they want money from the ticket sales to subsidize them. Perhaps they don't need 6 guys hanging out together on horses or bikes doing nothing. Look for them at events. They're just sitting there. In a clump! Why can't they patrol in ones or twos? Wouldn't that be more efficient?
I have never once seen a cop downtown "walking a beat." This would be a better use of their time than sitting around together like a bunch of junior high school kids at the cafeteria.
When I was in STL last week, I actually saw a pair of cops walking a beat. This was in the scary area a few miles from Barnes-Jewish Hospital. Kinda neat.
Quote from: PonderInc on June 17, 2009, 02:16:07 PM
The TPD talks about how much it costs on BOK event nights, and they want money from the ticket sales to subsidize them. Perhaps they don't need 6 guys hanging out together on horses or bikes doing nothing. Look for them at events. They're just sitting there. In a clump! Why can't they patrol in ones or twos? Wouldn't that be more efficient?
I have never once seen a cop downtown "walking a beat." This would be a better use of their time than sitting around together like a bunch of junior high school kids at the cafeteria.
Agreed that the BOK Center event patrol is worthless. A bunch of them just sitting in cars for 15 minutes of not really needed traffic control. What we call traffic after a BOK Center event, other cities would call light Sunday afternoon traffic. There's no need for much traffic control. Our streets are wide enough to handle way, way more traffic than they normally see.
The whole segways thing is a waste, too. They're patrolling a couple block area, if that. Then I see the ones on bikes riding on the sidewalks weaving all over the place like a 7-year-old who just took off the training wheels.
And I remember an article stating that more horse cops would be present a couple years back. But despite spending 99% of my time downtown, I've still not seen a cop on horseback.
Quote from: TheTed on June 18, 2009, 11:25:30 PM
But despite spending 99% of my time downtown, I've still not seen a cop on horseback.
I saw some at Mayfest.
Quote from: Conan71 on June 12, 2009, 08:52:30 AM
Anyone else bet Jim Norton saw this coming?
How would he have known? Are these bids private? Who knew what when? If I were a Councilor, I would take your question very, very seriously. If 'Jim Norton saw this coming,' is there some kind of unethicalness going on here? Down the rabbit hole we go.
NEXT UP: Tulsa Metro Chamber of Criminals!! Ha ha ha!
If he didn't see it coming he was blind. He was a very polarizing person who had a no-bid contract for years. Everyone on this board knew it was going to competitive bid. His time was over.
Quote from: Know Nothing on June 19, 2009, 08:39:04 AM
How would he have known? Are these bids private? Who knew what when? If I were a Councilor, I would take your question very, very seriously. If 'Jim Norton saw this coming,' is there some kind of unethicalness going on here? Down the rabbit hole we go.
NEXT UP: Tulsa Metro Chamber of Criminals!! Ha ha ha!
I thought it was interesting he'd found another job well before the bid results were known. It may have even been prior to the RFQ being issued. DTU was a bad joke that wouldn't go away for 30 years.
Maybe when you run a lethargic non-profit whose budget reveals 50% goes to unspecified "management," you worry when you know your contract will actually go out to bid...
Funny, last year's DTU budget (included in their contract with the City) reflected $170,000 for sidewalk, street and alley cleaning, and $48,170 for landscaping...which would have brought them in as the lowest bidder if they'd submitted that as their bid on the new RFP. However, their bid for those services on the new RFP was $483,000. Strange. Guess they're still budgeting for all that "management..."
Basically, I blame the City of Tulsa for blithely renewing the contract without scrutiny for all these years. Why did we have a contract that was never updated and never went out for competitive bid for the past 20 (?) or more years? Whose job is it to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen?
DTU is shutting down after 52 years in operation:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090624_298_0_Downto491033
Anyone else think it is a bit ironic that those 52 years represent a decline from downtown as the vibrant business core to downtown as a near wasteland? I don't know much about the operation of DTU, but no-bid contracts that were 2x the cost of the new one and the recorded decline "under their watch" seems telling. They will remain an organization with one employee to serve as a watchdog. I hope they assume a new and productive role in making downtown a better and more vibrant area.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on June 25, 2009, 09:30:13 AM
DTU is shutting down after 52 years in operation:
(http://wallpaper.najoomi.com/wallpapers/3/Cute-Baby-Crying-512X384-3.jpg)
Good riddance. Controversial as the ballpark is right now, I'm still of the firm belief the ballpark will do more for downtown than the last 30 years of what DTU has done or influenced. I was totally unaware DTU had been kicking around for 52 years. I can't believe it survived as long as it did. But I guess as long as the city was willing to blithely reissue a no-bid contract year-after-year, that would explain it.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on June 25, 2009, 09:30:13 AM
DTU is shutting down after 52 years in operation:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090624_298_0_Downto491033
Anyone else think it is a bit ironic that those 52 years represent a decline from downtown as the vibrant business core to downtown as a near wasteland? I don't know much about the operation of DTU, but no-bid contracts that were 2x the cost of the new one and the recorded decline "under their watch" seems telling. They will remain an organization with one employee to serve as a watchdog. I hope they assume a new and productive role in making downtown a better and more vibrant area.
The last sentence in the story is obviously a stab at DTU:
DTU was formed in 1957 as a nonprofit organization with a mission to bring merchants back to downtown following the development of Utica Square.
One of the problems with DTU was that they had a contract with the city that was all about keeping the Main Mall nice and pretty. Cleaning fountains, emptying trash cans, sweeping sidewalks. (Seriously, their 2008 contract still refered to the Main Mall! It's like nobody ever updated the thing after 1980.)
Their contract with the city never included business development, marketing, security, urban design planning, transportation planning, etc. (Certainly, it didn't include installing acorn lighting!)
However, they billed themselves as "the downtown authority." And they were treated as the "gatekeeper" to and "owner" of downtown. (As if they were in charge of everything downtown.)
Some people say that DTU was the only group "advocating" for downtown, when nobody else cared. Perhaps. (I don't know if this is true.) But I've talked to too many people who said that DTU shut them out of the game. Ignored them. Protected their little empire, at the cost of downtown vitality and growth.
To me, the failure to collaborate with willing volunteers and seek out synergies with other organizations was telling.
When you talk to downtown business owners (specifically small businesses...you know, the cornerstone of our economy), and they say that DTU never lifted a finger to help them... Well, that pretty much sums it up to me. They were a downtown association for the big corporations in the core of downtown, and for the parking lot owners who served on their board. Nothing more. And the fact that we all assumed that DTU should have been working on behalf of all of downtown... well, it wasn't in their contract.
Quote from: PonderInc on June 25, 2009, 10:58:28 AM
One of the problems with DTU was that they had a contract with the city that was all about keeping the Main Mall nice and pretty. Cleaning fountains, emptying trash cans, sweeping sidewalks. (Seriously, their 2008 contract still refered to the Main Mall! It's like nobody ever updated the thing after 1980.)
Their contract with the city never included business development, marketing, security, urban design planning, transportation planning, etc. (Certainly, it didn't include installing acorn lighting!)
However, they billed themselves as "the downtown authority." And they were treated as the "gatekeeper" to and "owner" of downtown. (As if they were in charge of everything downtown.)
Some people say that DTU was the only group "advocating" for downtown, when nobody else cared. Perhaps. (I don't know if this is true.) But I've talked to too many people who said that DTU shut them out of the game. Ignored them. Protected their little empire, at the cost of downtown vitality and growth.
To me, the failure to collaborate with willing volunteers and seek out synergies with other organizations was telling.
When you talk to downtown business owners (specifically small businesses...you know, the cornerstone of our economy), and they say that DTU never lifted a finger to help them... Well, that pretty much sums it up to me. They were a downtown association for the big corporations in the core of downtown, and for the parking lot owners who served on their board. Nothing more. And the fact that we all assumed that DTU should have been working on behalf of all of downtown... well, it wasn't in their contract.
I'll concur with everything you've heard from my personal experience of roughly 17-18 years ago which included direct dealings with DTU and meetings with it's director and staff. Outside influence and suggestion was not much appreciated at DTU. The only person I ever knew at DTU who seemed interested in truly promoting downtown was Julie Shields. Marketing folk from companies like Williams or PSO actually came up with some of the best promotions involving downtown (RIP Jenny Sehafer). My personal opinion was that Jim Norton was incredibly deft and detached from downtown and was doing nothing but stroking a paycheck as an administrator. In my opinion, he was not that visible in the downtown community and perhaps more importantly, no one outside downtown even seemed to know his name. I thought the whole idea was to attract people to downtown in the first place, not just pander to a few land owners. Anyone outside downtown (and many inside) all thought he was the car dealer when his name was mentioned.
Maybe my paradigm of what that job was supposed to entail was way, way off target. I always envisioned DTU as being sort of a micro chamber of commerce. I felt it failed in that regard.