I didn't realize piracy against American citizens was so funny?
Is there a joke I'm missing?
I hate to say it, but I do find humor in it. But this is because the pirates tried to take an american ship, and got their butts kicked. I do hope the captain gets rescued soon, and that the navy doesn't let the pirates off, but as for the rest of it, since none of the piratees did not get hurt, I find the outcome funny.
Fair enough.
We have an American citizen being held hostage. I can't see the humor yet.
I certainly don't think that the Secretary of State should express humor at the incident until it is resolved. Heaven forbid the captain is killed or injured. Heaven forbid that we are forced into a position to render ransom to these animals, or worse, we opt to bow to the UN for guidance.
Perhaps this is a new tactic. I will reserve judgement.
She could at least put on a grim face, and mentioned that the administration was working on a nasty letter to the pirates, or that they had taken steps to suspend their Twitter accounts.
The sun goes down every night. I'd like to see what just one Navy Seal could do to those guys under cover of dark.
I didn't know that our elustrious secretary of state was making light of the situation. I do agree that is not appropriate with the circumstances.
And yes, I would like to see a seal slip in at night, or a sniper on our ship nearby, or something other then sitting around talking to them. What ever happened to the "don't negotiate with terrorist" stance?
There's that whole hostage thing. You know, innocent lives, etc etc yadda yadda.
Using 24 as a basis for policy, tactics, or strategy is just begging for trouble.
A seal team, under the cover of night, could easily go in and take out everyone on a lifeboat without putting the hostage at risk. By negotiating with them, then we leave ourselves open in the future for more hostage situations. That is why we adopted the policy a long time ago. Well, we will negotiate, but it's more along the lines of "let them go and you get to live" when it comes down to it.
Here's what is not so funny, the priority should be:
#1 Pirates get NO REWARD for their efforts, preferably be punished
#2 Safety of US Citizens
#3 Safety of other non-pirate parties
#4 Economic concerns about property.
In the long run, these priorities look out for our interests. Why do you think they are risking going further out to sea? Why are they facing off against armed navies?
Easy: $3,000,000 a pop. For $3,000,000 I'd considered hijacking a ship. A good months work, no one gets hurt, you get more money than your entire village would ever see.
Make it unsuccessful more often than not and the incentive goes away. Make it so a US flagged ship means no booty, and there is no incentive to attack a US flagged ship. I feel sorry for the captain (and the company), but long term the no negotiation strategy works.
Interesting bit of info:
Maersk Line turned down an offer from Xe (Blackwater) last year for protection. Xe has developed an anti-pirate ship with guns and specialized helicopters for fighting just such an attack. They provide similar services to many other countries. There is not much reported about the attacks they have thwarted because there is not much left to report.
Since Xe (Blackwater) is still our largest military contractor, perhaps the federal government could hire them to provide the protection for merchant ships (or provide US flagged vessels a tax credit for the hire of Xe). That way we would not have to engage military ships directly, and we would have the additional bonus of NOT dealing with the international repercussions of all the strong worded letters the President would have to write, or the swift and terrible justice of the UN.
Hope we don't go all Carter on this one!
Or. . . perhaps it's a conspiracy. The test that Vice President Biden fortold.
Ragnar is that you?
Looks like custonox wins the prize. SEAL team takes out three of four pirates and rescues captain without a scratch. (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/12/somalia.pirates/index.html)
Interesting times we live in.
Quote from: we vs us on April 12, 2009, 03:46:50 PM
Looks like custonox wins the prize. SEAL team takes out three of four pirates and rescues captain without a scratch. (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/12/somalia.pirates/index.html)
Interesting times we live in.
I do not care who made the call (Obama, military commander on scene, Clinton), big props for a great decision. These deadbeat f'ers got what they deserved.
It looks like Obama approved of the resue.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D97H4LVO0&show_article=1
As much as I cannot stand this guy, I must give him his due. Good job.
Gasp! The pirates are swearing revenge and perhaps we have escalated the situation. OMG!11!!!
I suppose giving them $2mil and letting them go home would have ensured safety in the area.
Kudos to all involved.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on April 13, 2009, 08:45:32 AM
Gasp! The pirates are swearing revenge and perhaps we have escalated the situation. OMG!11!!!
I suppose giving them $2mil and letting them go home would have ensured safety in the area.
Kudos to all involved.
I will be interested to see what "escalation" means in pirate speak. They're pretty far up the ladder at this point, I'd say, if they're successfully capturing and ransoming container-size ships.
Well, we've just sullied our reputation in the pirate world, haven't we! Kudos to those who pulled off this mission.
Not negotiating with terrorists isn't a bad idea.
I say we take a few of the large to medium size ships that the coast-guard has confiscated for drugs over the years and put a crew of heavily armed marines on each one, then pass them through the area and let the pirates attempt to board, then unleash.
They need to associate pirate activity with suicide. We should also make sure that the marines are using ammunition coated with pigs blood. ;D
Well, not to put too fine a point on it but they only decided to take the shot(s) when the pirates themselves cut off communication and it was determined that the captain was in imminent danger.
Let it be known henceforth that wevus is NOT against the occasional sniper headshot once in awhile, especially if the shot is clear and all other avenues have been exhausted, based on the information immediately at hand.
Shorter: do everything you can to minimize violence, and when you can't anymore, aim for the head.
Quote
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia – The killing of three Somali pirates in the dramatic U.S. Navy rescue of a cargo ship captain has sparked concern for other hostages and fears that the stakes have been raised for future hijackings in the busy Indian Ocean shipping lane.
Sunday's rescue of Capt. Richard Phillips followed a shootout at sea on Friday by French navy commandos, who stormed a pirate-held sailboat, killed two pirates and freed four French hostages. The French owner of the vessel was also killed in the assault.
The two operations may have been a setback for the pirates, but they are unlikely to quell the brigands, who have vowed to avenge the deaths of their comrades.
Experts indicated that piracy in the Indian Ocean off Somalia, which transformed one of the world's busiest shipping lanes into one of its most dangerous, has entered a new phase with the Navy SEAL rescue operation of Phillips.
It "could escalate violence in this part of the world, no question about it," said Vice Adm. Bill Gortney, commander of U.S. Naval Forces Central Command.
The International Maritime Bureau said Monday it supported the action by the U.S. and French navies, but cautioned it may spark retaliatory moves by pirates.
"We applaud the U.S. and the French action. We feel that they are making the right move, although the results sometimes may be detrimental," said Noel Choong of the IMB's piracy center in Kuala Lumpur.
He did not elaborate, but for families of the 228 foreign nationals aboard 13 ships still held by pirates, the fear is revenge on their loved ones.
"Those released are lucky, but what about those who remain captive?" said Vilma de Guzman, the wife of Filipino seafarer Ruel de Guzman. He has been held by pirates since Nov. 10 along with the 22 other Filipino crew of the chemical tanker MT Stolt Strength.
The U.S. rescue operation "might be dangerous (for) the remaining hostages because the pirates might vent their anger on them," she said.
So far, Somali pirates have never harmed captive foreign crews except for a Taiwanese crew member who was killed under unclear circumstances. In fact, many former hostages say they were treated well and given sumptuous food.
The pirates had operated with near-impunity in the Gulf of Aden north of Somalia, and more recently in waters south of the country after a multinational naval force began patrolling the Gulf.
Choong said there have been 74 attacks this year with 15 hijackings as compared to 111 attacks for all of last year.
The modus operandi of the pirates is simple: Board unarmed or lightly armed merchant ships, fire shots in the air or at the hull to intimidate the crew, divert the ships to hide-outs on the Somali coast and wait for the owners to pay millions of dollars in ransom.
But the game changed last week when the pirates boarded the U.S.-flagged Maersk Alabama. In an act of courage, Phillips offered himself as hostage in return for the safety of his crew.
The pirates transferred the 53-year-old Phillips, a Vermont native, to a lifeboat. But the pirates had not counted on the U.S. military's resolve. After a five-day standoff during which a small U.S. flotilla tailed the lifeboat, Navy SEAL snipers on a destroyer shot and killed three pirates and plucked an unharmed Phillips to safety. A fourth pirate surrendered.
The comrades of the slain pirates immediately threatened retaliation.
"From now on, if we capture foreign ships and their respective countries try to attack us, we will kill them," said Jamac Habeb, a 30-year-old self-proclaimed pirate, told The Associated Press by telephone from the pirate hub, Eyl.
Abdullahi Lami, one of the pirates holding a Greek ship in the pirate den of Gaan, a central Somali town, told the AP that pirates will not take the U.S. action lying down.
"We will retaliate for the killings of our men," he said.
Giles Noakes, chief maritime security officer of the largest international shipping association, the Denmark-based BIMCO, says it is premature to say Philips' rescue will lead to an escalation of violence.
"The question here is whether there will be a change of attitude in the pirates and in their modus operandi. We hope the change will be that they will be even more deterred because of the successful action by both the Maersk Alabama crew and the navies," he said.
Many of the governments whose ships have been captured — including Taiwan's Win Far 161 with a multinational crew of 30 — are in talks with the pirates and would not comment on the consequences of the American rescue for fear of jeopardizing the negotiations.
"We are monitoring the situation closely, but the ship owner wants to keep a low profile to help with their negotiation with the abductors," Taiwanese Foreign Ministry spokesman Henry Chen said.
He said the crew, comprising 17 Filipinos, six Indonesians, five Chinese and two Taiwanese, were safe as of Monday.
Some families also wonder if Phillips' rescue drew so much of attention because of his nationality.
"It's difficult when the ship's crew are all Filipinos because we are ignored," said de Guzman. "Maybe if there are Japanese, Koreans or British among the crew, the case would get more attention."
___
Associated Press writer Teresa Cerojano and writers around the world contributed to this report.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PIRACY?SITE=NYWNE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PIRACY?SITE=NYWNE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
It does make yoiu worry about the escalation, however, if they start killing hostages, then they are signing their own death warrants.
What bothers me is the part where it says many governments are in negotiations with the pirates. These are the ones that are enabling the pirates, and IMO if us attacking the pirates causes their negotiations to break down, then so much the better.
Quote from: custosnox on April 13, 2009, 10:44:51 AM
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PIRACY?SITE=NYWNE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PIRACY?SITE=NYWNE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
It does make yoiu worry about the escalation, however, if they start killing hostages, then they are signing their own death warrants.
What bothers me is the part where it says many governments are in negotiations with the pirates. These are the ones that are enabling the pirates, and IMO if us attacking the pirates causes their negotiations to break down, then so much the better.
So the question is this: should we have conceded and pay the ransom? I'm glad they did what they did. It sends a pretty clear message to the terrorists (and these pirates are equivalent to that) that we will not negotiate and won't tolerate these kinds of acts.
But, we also have to be careful, especially in this country (Somalia). We do remember that the movie 'Blackhawk Down' was based on the Blackhawk shot down in Mogadishu. These extreme Somalis, for all their barbarism, know how to co-ordinate. That's a dangerous combination, especially in a country with no real government.
Methinks that this whole episode shows the value of being patient.
Wait it out until the pirates are good and fatigued, then pounce on 'em when they're least able to retaliate.
Plus I read in one report that the part of the delay in a rescue operation was getting the Navy SEALs in the area.
Quote from: Hoss on April 13, 2009, 10:55:14 AM
So the question is this: should we have conceded and pay the ransom? I'm glad they did what they did. It sends a pretty clear message to the terrorists (and these pirates are equivalent to that) that we will not negotiate and won't tolerate these kinds of acts.
But, we also have to be careful, especially in this country (Somalia). We do remember that the movie 'Blackhawk Down' was based on the Blackhawk shot down in Mogadishu. These extreme Somalis, for all their barbarism, know how to co-ordinate. That's a dangerous combination, especially in a country with no real government.
We should never give in to terrorists. By gifing them their ransoms, negotiating, and letting them operate freely, then they will continue to take. It is time we take a stand against them. With the 'Blackhawk Down' senerio, I personally think we should have used a lot more firepower. And that might be how we have to deal with them, with overwelming numbers and superior firepower.
I was hoping that the delay with the seals was to trap the other ships that were supposed to be coming to the aid of the pirates in the lifeboat. I don't see how it could have taken them 5 days to get the seals into place.
Obama fighting the rise of PRIVACY in the Indian Ocean:
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/04/obama_fighting_rise_of_privacy.html
Before you spooners go nuts, I am just poking him a bit. It was probably a TOTUS malfunction. Still, I give him credit for approving of the action to take out that jackasses.
I think the whole operation was a cover for military involvement in the region. It took five days to get our intelligence network set up.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on April 13, 2009, 12:40:38 PM
I think the whole operation was a cover for military involvement in the region. It took five days to get our intelligence network set up.
Here ya go RM:
(http://zapatopi.net/afdb/afdbhead.jpg)
I think whatever you are currently using is malfunctioning a bit.
I like it. I know mine has been on the fritz for a long time.
Just rewrap your old one with two layers of amuminum foil and you'll be good as new. For extra security, you can take some copper wires and fashion a faraday cage on the inside of it. Just remember, back and forth, under and over...
Quote from: guido911 on April 12, 2009, 04:04:43 PM
It looks like Obama approved of the resue.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D97H4LVO0&show_article=1
As much as I cannot stand this guy, I must give him his due. Good job.
Unless you're replying to your Freeper buddies, then no due is attributed, right? Gotta keep up appearances, I suppose.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2228317/posts#comment
Why is that not surprising.
QuoteTo: Chet 99
NO, the Navy SEALs who pulled off three kill shots deserve the credit.
2 posted on Monday, April 13, 2009 16:43:26 by guido911 (Islamic terrorists are members of the "ROP", the "religion of pu*&ies")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]
The Chinese navy seems to have perfected its anti-piracy strategy: a horde of dolphins. (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-04/14/content_11184581.htm)
(http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-04/14/xin_5920406141120000159014.jpg)
BEIJING, April 14 (Xinhuanet) -- Thousands of dolphins blocked the suspected Somali pirate ships when they were trying to attack Chinese merchant ships passing the Gulf of Aden, the China Radio International reported on Monday.
The Chinese merchant ships escorted by a China's fleet sailed on the Gulf of Aden when they met some suspected pirate ships. Thousands of dolphins suddenly leaped out of water between pirates and merchants when the pirate ships headed for the China's.
The suspected pirates ships stopped and then turned away. The pirates could only lament their littleness befor the vast number of dolphins. The spectacular scene continued for a while.
Quote from: Hoss on April 13, 2009, 07:11:11 PM
Unless you're replying to your Freeper buddies, then no due is attributed, right? Gotta keep up appearances, I suppose.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2228317/posts#comment
Why is that not surprising.
I think the Gweedster must be really angry at me; he continues to ding my Karma every waking hour. Harhar. But I'm sure he won't acknowledge it, because he has me on ignore.
Or does he....hmm....
Quote from: Hoss on April 14, 2009, 02:09:28 PM
I think the Gweedster must be really angry at me; he continues to ding my Karma every waking hour. Harhar. But I'm sure he won't acknowledge it, because he has me on ignore.
Or does he....hmm....
Someone's been whacking at mine but good. ;)
Quote from: nathanm on April 14, 2009, 02:10:29 PM
Someone's been whacking at mine but good. ;)
+1 for being a target as well. ;D
I've only recently been posting again, but I apparantly say some stuff some people don't like, because everytime I get one, it get's knocked back down ;D
Quote from: custosnox on April 14, 2009, 02:56:50 PM
I've only recently been posting again, but I apparantly say some stuff some people don't like, because everytime I get one, it get's knocked back down ;D
It ain't me. I have never Karma'd anyone. I think that whole idea is stupid, and I have posted that previously.
I gave guido +1 karma. I have given him + karma a couple of times. I guess I am the only one who appreciates his humor.
I used to have good karma, but lately I seem to be losing three or four a day. I guess I need to stop arguing.
Quote from: RecycleMichael on April 14, 2009, 03:58:46 PM
I used to have good karma, but lately I seem to be losing three or four a day. I guess I need to stop arguing.
The trick is to stay under the radar. That way, there is no incentive to take away karma. ;)
Quote from: Hoss on April 13, 2009, 10:55:14 AM
So the question is this: should we have conceded and pay the ransom? I'm glad they did what they did. It sends a pretty clear message to the terrorists (and these pirates are equivalent to that) that we will not negotiate and won't tolerate these kinds of acts.
But, we also have to be careful, especially in this country (Somalia). We do remember that the movie 'Blackhawk Down' was based on the Blackhawk shot down in Mogadishu. These extreme Somalis, for all their barbarism, know how to co-ordinate. That's a dangerous combination, especially in a country with no real government.
No, they don't. We killed hundreds of them and lost 18 soldiers. Some say they lost thousands.
The Somalis are some of the dumbest humans that walk the planet. No central government... that place can't even rise to the title of "3rd World." That is saying something, folks.
I mean, really, lets look at some of their recent activity...
They take a Saudi Oil tanker, work out a ransom deal, then drown on their way to retrieve the money that was air-dropped into the ocean. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479045,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479045,00.html)
Then in this latest publicized incident, the "pirates" (if you can even call them that--the ghosts of pirates of the days long past laugh at these fools as they pass the rum) try to hijack an American ship with unarmed sailors... and fail.
They end up taking the captain in a lifeboat?? and being the idiots that they are, end up surrounded by the U.S. Navy within a day.
Now, completely overtaken by the world's most efficient navy, only two options remain. You surrender, or you get taken out. But no!! In the mind of an uneducated Somalian, you ask the U.S. military for a ransom!! ::)
And so they died. Three shots, three kills. They never knew what hit them. They left this world just as clueless as they were when they entered it.
These are young, uneducated, extremely poor, extremely small-minded people, carrying AK-47s that they are completely lacking in proficiency with.
Any ship with 2-4 trained security guards with semi-automatic rifles could stop ANY of the hundreds of Somali pirate attacks that have occurred thusfar.
Port-to-port international firearms laws, and skimpy shipping company owners who don't want to pay for ship security, are the reason why the attacks continue.
No Somalian pirate attack has circumvented an armed security detail. And they never will.
Due to the lack of security on these ships, sending our military after them may be the best deterrent at this point, but doing so is like rolling a tank over an anthill.
--
Hoss, President Clinton pulled us out of Somalia because he didn't want us to have to kill any more of THEM. Not the other way around. He felt sorry for them, tried to help them out with humanitarian aid. When they jacked with a couple of our helicopters, they lost 800 people, and he pulled the plug on the operation.
--
Well stated Hawkins.
It's being reported that these dumba$$es tried to hijack another U.S. cargo ship, but were unsuccessful. Obama was reportedly on board the vessel and personally stopped these pirates.
(http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:5aYom_8jmkGpXM::www.mikepaulblog.com/blog/media/Obama%252520w%252520Superman_02.jpg)
looks like they are wanting to raise the stakes
Quote
MOMBASA, Kenya – French forces raided a pirate supply ship and detained 11 brigands off the coast of Kenya on Wednesday, as pirate attacks and counterattacks racheted up tensions in one of the world's most important shipping lanes.
The French forces launched their early morning attack after observing the pirates overnight. A French surveillance helicopter spotted the pirates' vessel Tuesday, the French Defense Ministry said in a statement.
The raid thwarted the sea bandits' planned attack on a Liberian-registered vessel, the ministry said. The ship was intercepted 550 miles (900 kilometers) east of the Kenyan city of Mombasa.
A mothership usually is a seized foreign vessel that pirates use to transport speedboats far out to sea and resupply them as they plot their attacks.
Meanwhile, Somali pirates fired grenades and automatic weapons at an American freighter loaded with food aid but the ship escaped and was heading to Kenya under U.S. Navy guard.
The Liberty Sun's American crew was not injured in the latest attack but the vessel sustained some damage, owner Liberty Maritime Corp. said. The sailors successfully blockaded themselves inside the engine room — the same tactic the Maersk Alabama crew used to thwart last week's attack on their ship.
Still, the attack foiled the reunion between the American sea captain rescued by Navy snipers and the 19-man crew of the Maersk Alabama who he saved with his heroism.
Capt. Richard Phillips was planning to meet his crew in Mombasa and fly home with them Wednesday, but he was stuck on the USS Bainbridge when it was diverted to help the Liberty Sun.
Despite President Barack Obama's vow to take action against the rise in banditry and the deaths of five pirates in French and U.S. hostage rescues, brigands seized four vessels and more than 75 hostages since Sunday's dramatic rescue of an American freighter captain.
That brought the total number of sailors being held by Somali pirates to over 300 on 16 different ships — a distinct surge in the number of captives over the last few days.
Pirates can extort $1 million or more for each ship and crew seized off the Horn of Africa — and Kenya estimates they raked in $150 million last year.
One of the pirates whose gang attacked the Liberty Sun said Wednesday his group was specifically targeting American ships and threatened to kill Americans.
"We will seek out the Americans and if we capture them we will slaughter them," said a 25-year-old pirate based in the Somali port of Harardhere who gave only his first name, Ismail.
"We will target their ships because we know their flags. Last night, an American-flagged ship escaped us by a whisker. We have showered them with rocket-propelled grenades," boasted Ismail, who did not take part in the attack.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/piracy (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/piracy)
The last bit of it is what tells me that we need to start arming our merchant ships, and get the navy in there in more force so we can put an end to this
Well Sharpton is chiming in about the Somali
Pirates "Voluntary Coastguard". Not long until this becomes the official terminology.
See, look at this article. A few, well-trained security personnel repel these "pirates" every time.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517955,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517955,00.html)
The kid of a friend of mine is in the Navy and is being deployed on Pirate Duty in the next couple of months.
And here is the latest...
http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/92536?fp=1
Holy crap!
380 feet long, 3000 tons, up to 125 men (crew, airmen, Marines, etc.)
Armament:
* BAE Systems Mk 110 57 mm gun (machine cannon)
* RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missiles
* 45? or 60? NETFIRES PAM missiles in the ASuW module[3][4]
* 2 .50-cal guns
Aircraft carried:
* 2 MH-60R/S Seahawks (Navy version of Blackhawk helicopters)
* MQ-8 Fire Scout (targeting drone)
Speed: 45 knots (52 mph; 83 km/h)
It can also serve as a "mother ship" and launch the modern equivalent of PT boats from either a ramp or a stern waterline door.
The USS Freedom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Freedom_(LCS-1) (wiki page because the ship's website exceeded bandwidth and down)
That's crazy. A 380 foot warship backed with weapons and ammo, launching aircraft, and cruising towards you at 50 MPH. This could really help change the game. This is one of 3 in existence apparently, and more to come.
No trolling motor, or rod holders?
Worthless!
Quote from: Gaspar on May 06, 2009, 10:11:45 AM
No trolling motor, or rod holders?
Worthless!
You don't think those navy guys don't have something rigged up to drop some serious deep sea lines?
45 kts. That would make short work out of long-lining.