'He would target cars in parking lots during the day and lurk in neighborhoods at night, even breaking into vehicles that had been parked close to the house under lights for protection.
"I went right up in their front yard with their porch light on. And got in their truck and took it. I took their box, their amp their stereo take it all." '
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Through-The-Eyes-Of-A-Burglar/-h4o7BQ2L02o_F6JYd5GbQ.cspx
Quote from: patric on March 31, 2009, 11:49:56 PM
'He would target cars in parking lots during the day and lurk in neighborhoods at night, even breaking into vehicles that had been parked close to the house under lights for protection.
"I went right up in their front yard with their porch light on. And got in their truck and took it. I took their box, their amp their stereo take it all." '
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Through-The-Eyes-Of-A-Burglar/-h4o7BQ2L02o_F6JYd5GbQ.cspx
I have a sign out front of my house that reads 'This home protected by Smith and Wesson'. I'm betting that puts pause in a few people if they had thoughts. I've seen other homes with the same.
But I'm pretty good about locking all doors to my home. I don't have a garage, but know my neighbors well, and we have a neighborhood watch program in place. Plus a policeman lives around the corner. I lock my car as soon as I'm out of it and NEVER leave anything of value in sight..well, pretty much never leave anything of value in it period. I know too many people who've had their car windows busted out by thieves trying to just get the stereo. The alarm on my car is pretty good, also.
There is at least one significant advantage to driving a beat up old car. It's less likely to be broken into.
For a while I was trying to get rid of this half-broken ancient laptop so I left it in my car in plain sight and left the doors unlocked at all times. Despite it being there for over 6 months, nobody bothered to help themselves. I wish they would have. Now I have to dispose of it properly.
Quote from: Hoss on April 01, 2009, 12:40:14 AM
I have a sign out front of my house that reads 'This home protected by Smith and Wesson'. I'm betting that puts pause in a few people if they had thoughts. I've seen other homes with the same.
But I'm pretty good about locking all doors to my home. I don't have a garage, but know my neighbors well, and we have a neighborhood watch program in place. Plus a policeman lives around the corner. I lock my car as soon as I'm out of it and NEVER leave anything of value in sight..well, pretty much never leave anything of value in it period. I know too many people who've had their car windows busted out by thieves trying to just get the stereo. The alarm on my car is pretty good, also.
Thank you! Too many people 'allow' themselves to be victims.
Look, we all want to be able to live in that city where you don't have to lock your doors and you can leave your keys in the car. That ain't happenin' here.
If folks would take the most simplest steps to avoid being a victim, our crime rate would drop tremendously.
Look the doors on your house. Lock your car. Keep things out of sight in your car (better yet, don't keep things in your car). Don't leave things outside in the yard (bikes, lawnmowers, ....). Don't leave your keys in the car and, better yet, don't leave your car running at Quik Trip (we could cut auto thefts in the city by nearly 15% overnight if we would just stop this ridiculous practice).
It's not that difficult.
Quote from: Wilbur on April 01, 2009, 05:39:41 AM
Don't leave your keys in the car and, better yet, don't leave your car running at Quik Trip . . .
Every winter I see at least one Sheriff or Police vehicle running outside of QT. I'm no thief, but even I am tempted to take it and park it on the backside of the block. Other vehicles running at QT when it is cold is way to common.
Valuables out when possible. Doors locked. Anything worth while out of sight. I won't solve all the problems, but it will solve many.
Quote from: nathanm on April 01, 2009, 01:34:28 AM
There is at least one significant advantage to driving a beat up old car. It's less likely to be broken into.
For a while I was trying to get rid of this half-broken ancient laptop so I left it in my car in plain sight and left the doors unlocked at all times. Despite it being there for over 6 months, nobody bothered to help themselves. I wish they would have. Now I have to dispose of it properly.
There is a ton of advantages of driving a older heap, it useually made better and has less computer junk on it and can be more dependable and is cheaper to drive if it's paid for, plus you don't have to worry about that first scratch.
A big problem with burglars is the punishment is always so light, that guy in the story must of had many arrests for doing break-ins. The money gain is worth the slight risk of getting caught and even if caught it's a slap on the wrist and back to business. A DWI guy spends more jail time than many burglers. Burglers don't even have to pay a fine. The rewards are high, the risks are low.. :D
I always have and always will leave my car running when going in a gas station for whatever. If someone steals it right in front of me at least I will have a story to tell and an insurance check in my pocket.
Quote from: BierGarten on April 01, 2009, 08:50:35 AM
I always have and always will leave my car running when going in a gas station for whatever. If someone steals it right in front of me at least I will have a story to tell and an insurance check in my pocket.
You might have a good fight on your hands getting that check from the insurance company when the clerk says in the police report that you were a moron and left your car running with the keys in it. You obviously have not clued into the idea it's people like you that help keep auto insurance rates higher than necessary.
Quote from: Hoss on April 01, 2009, 12:40:14 AM
I have a sign out front of my house that reads 'This home protected by Smith and Wesson'. I'm betting that puts pause in a few people if they had thoughts. I've seen other homes with the same.
But I'm pretty good about locking all doors to my home. I don't have a garage, but know my neighbors well, and we have a neighborhood watch program in place. Plus a policeman lives around the corner. I lock my car as soon as I'm out of it and NEVER leave anything of value in sight..well, pretty much never leave anything of value in it period. I know too many people who've had their car windows busted out by thieves trying to just get the stereo. The alarm on my car is pretty good, also.
My new house has one of the latest and greatest ADT systems, but Mr. Colt will still sleep near my bed, just in case that or my viscious Yorkie yapping is not enough of a deterrent. ;)
I've never been one to upgrade car stereos, one reason being I'm incredibly low-tech on most things, the other is, I've got an aversion to replacing car glass. I'm with you, don't leave anything worth value in sight and people will move along. I'm still amazed at how many people will leave a laptop sitting in the front seat of their car. That's what a trunk is for.
I've had only had one rear window on a car broken either by vandals or accident in 27 years of driving.
Quote from: Conan71 on April 01, 2009, 09:11:29 AM
You might have a good fight on your hands getting that check from the insurance company when the clerk says in the police report that you were a moron and left your car running with the keys in it. You obviously have not clued into the idea it's people like you that help keep auto insurance rates higher than necessary.
I find this to be an absolutely ridiculous argument. It is not people like me that has anything to do with high insurance rates. It has everything to do with the actual person that steals the car. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that no one, not one person, ever left their car running at a gas station. Would car thief "x" find another way to steal a car? Yes.
And for what it is worth, I don't pay a lot for car insurance? Do you? Perhaps you have a bad driving record or should switch insurance companies...
Quote from: BierGarten on April 01, 2009, 10:49:29 AM
And for what it is worth, I don't pay a lot for car insurance? Do you? Perhaps you have a bad driving record or should switch insurance companies...
You'll be paying more when your car is stolen, even though you won't get a check from the insurance company. They don't cover intentionally stupid, at least none of mine ever have.
You probably should read your policy to make sure you have the coverage against theft when your negligence was at fault that you think you do.
Quote from: BierGarten on April 01, 2009, 10:49:29 AM
I find this to be an absolutely ridiculous argument. It is not people like me that has anything to do with high insurance rates. It has everything to do with the actual person that steals the car. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that no one, not one person, ever left their car running at a gas station. Would car thief "x" find another way to steal a car? Yes.
And for what it is worth, I don't pay a lot for car insurance? Do you? Perhaps you have a bad driving record or should switch insurance companies...
I wonder if you'll have the same opinion when someone steals your car due to your negligence and stupidity. Or maybe you want them to steal it.
It's doubtful you'd get a check for being less than smart when it comes to theft of your own vehicle.
Quote from: nathanm on April 01, 2009, 11:04:04 AM
You'll be paying more when your car is stolen, even though you won't get a check from the insurance company. They don't cover intentionally stupid, at least none of mine ever have.
You probably should read your policy to make sure you have the coverage against theft when your negligence was at fault that you think you do.
Well, you are probably right about paying higher rates after the car is stolen. I disagree, however, that it is negligent to leave a car running within view. That would be like saying it is negligent to leave your front door unlocked whilst working in the front yard or that it is negligent to leave your baby with strangers at your church's nursery...
Quote from: Wilbur on April 01, 2009, 05:39:41 AM
Look, we all want to be able to live in that city where you don't have to lock your doors and you can leave your keys in the car. That ain't happenin' here.
That ain't happenin' anywhere. That sort of dumb mentality died in the 1950s and '60s, when thieves took advantage of that sort of naivete.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on April 01, 2009, 07:54:18 AM
Every winter I see at least one Sheriff or Police vehicle running outside of QT. I'm no thief, but even I am tempted to take it and park it on the backside of the block. Other vehicles running at QT when it is cold is way to common.
Valuables out when possible. Doors locked. Anything worth while out of sight. I won't solve all the problems, but it will solve many.
Was that you on the 5th floor of the courthouse today?
Quote from: BierGarten on April 01, 2009, 10:49:29 AM
I find this to be an absolutely ridiculous argument. It is not people like me that has anything to do with high insurance rates. It has everything to do with the actual person that steals the car. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that no one, not one person, ever left their car running at a gas station. Would car thief "x" find another way to steal a car? Yes.
And for what it is worth, I don't pay a lot for car insurance? Do you? Perhaps you have a bad driving record or should switch insurance companies...
I'm satisfied with what I pay for auto insurance, I've got a great driving record. But I'd be even happier if people didn't file liability suits over 5 MPH rear end whiplash collisions and others didn't make dumb decisions like leaving a car running unattended. It's a far easier target than my locked truck. I wish you luck on it never being stolen, just don't be expecting an easy payout from your insurance company. I take precautions to protect my personal property, but I do so with the realization it's only a deterrent to less determined criminals. I don't care to be an easy mark.
Quote from: BierGarten on April 01, 2009, 08:50:35 AM
I always have and always will leave my car running when going in a gas station for whatever. If someone steals it right in front of me at least I will have a story to tell and an insurance check in my pocket.
I would take a look at Tulsa ordinances, Title 37 Section 513, which clearly says it is illegal to leave your keys in the car, for obvious reasons. Another one of those laws that really don't need to be on the books........... except for a few folks, I guess.
Quote from: BierGarten on April 01, 2009, 11:16:35 AM
I disagree, however, that it is negligent to leave a car running within view. That would be like saying it is negligent to leave your front door unlocked whilst working in the front yard
What are you going to do if someone gets in your car and drives off with it while you're in Quiktrip?
Your analogy is quite poor, unless your house is on wheels.
Let's assume somebody is ready and waiting to lift a easy mark running car at Quiktrip.
On one side we have the expense of:
-3 seconds to turn off the car and remove the key
-2 seconds to lock the door on the way out
-another 5 seconds to reverse the process
On the other side we have the expense of:
(assuming the crook is seen and stopped)
-call cops, wait for them arrive
-fill out paperwork
(assuming the crook is not stopped)
-arrange for pickup from Quiktrip
-file claim with insurance company
-wrangle with insurance company about value and details of coverage
-pickup rental (and pay for it if insurance doesn't cover)
-research new car and dance with the dealership for an afternoon
-pay for registration and excise tax
-wait for check from insurance company to defray cost of new car
Assuming it'd take about 45 minutes to go through to pavaler with the police, that's 270 visits to Quiktrip before you break even time wise.
Crook gets away...hm...10 minutes for pickup, 45 on the phone with Mr. State Farm, 30 to pickup rental, 6 hours to research and buy car, $$$ and 10 minutes registration and tax...and however you want to quantify waiting for reimbursement. So roughly, that's 1000 Quiktrip visits.
If the risk to reward ratio of forgoing that 10 seconds each visit balances out for you, well, there you go...
Quote from: cannon_fodder on April 01, 2009, 07:54:18 AM
Every winter I see at least one Sheriff or Police vehicle running outside of QT. I'm no thief, but even I am tempted to take it and park it on the backside of the block. Other vehicles running at QT when it is cold is way to common.
Valuables out when possible. Doors locked. Anything worth while out of sight. I won't solve all the problems, but it will solve many.
Majority of the time, they lock the car, most cops carry atleast 2 sets of keys to their car on them at all times, if not more. They will have one set they normally use to start the car, and an extra set or two.
In all seriousness, has anyone known someone that has had their car stolen in a gas station parking lot? I haven't. Nor have I ever heard of it happening, news or otherwise, until this thread. Just curious how real this possibility is.
Quote from: Wilbur on April 01, 2009, 05:17:08 PM
I would take a look at Tulsa ordinances, Title 37 Section 513, which clearly says it is illegal to leave your keys in the car, for obvious reasons. Another one of those laws that really don't need to be on the books........... except for a few folks, I guess.
You must be looking at a different Section 513 than I am. The Section 513 I see says that "No person shall leave a vehicle
unattended unless the brakes are securely set and the ignition key removed from the vehicle." A vehicle within view, IMO, is not unattended.
Quote from: BierGarten on April 03, 2009, 01:41:27 PM
You must be looking at a different Section 513 than I am. The Section 513 I see says that "No person shall leave a vehicle unattended unless the brakes are securely set and the ignition key removed from the vehicle." A vehicle within view, IMO, is not unattended.
You're kidding, right?
So a child within view where you can't intercede if said child runs into the street; is that child unattended?
Give me a break.
Quote from: Hoss on April 03, 2009, 02:06:21 PM
You're kidding, right?
So a child within view where you can't intercede if said child runs into the street; is that child unattended?
Give me a break.
No I am not kidding. I didn't write the ordinance. The person that wrote it used the word "unattended" not "unoccupied". If the person drafting the ordinance meant the ordinance to mean you couldn't leave your car while it was running they would have used the latter. Is a pot of boiling water unattended unless my finger is sticking in it? Is a fire in my fireplace unattended if I am on my couch admiring it?
Quote from: BierGarten on April 03, 2009, 01:41:10 PM
In all seriousness, has anyone known someone that has had their car stolen in a gas station parking lot? I haven't. Nor have I ever heard of it happening, news or otherwise, until this thread. Just curious how real this possibility is.
Yes. My nephew left his Montero running in the parking lot of a Quik Trip to get cigarettes and buy gas. The car was in sight with the keys in it, the door unlocked and the engine running because it was cold outside. Two young teens jumped in it and took off before he could get out the door. They later drove it into a ditch and punctured the oil pan. While trying to get it out of the ditch they gunned the engine and threw a rod through the block. They ran off but the QT guys thought they knew who they were. It now sits in my brother's pasture as insurance would not cover it. Pretty good looking shell of a car. At least he learned something.
QuoteIs a pot of boiling water unattended unless my finger is sticking in it? Is a fire in my fireplace unattended if I am on my couch admiring it?
If you're far enough away that little Timmy could stick -his- finger in either one before you got there to intervene, yes. That means the child is unattended, too, although you could see them both the whole time. To refine the analogy a little, you'd be standing in the front yard watching the whole thing through the picture window.
There's really no way around it, bub. What you do at the gas station is foolhardy, you've been lucky. As for the definition of "unattended", it ultimately doesn't matter what you, me or anybody on the forum thinks - it's up to the judge...
Quote from: BierGarten on April 03, 2009, 01:41:27 PM
You must be looking at a different Section 513 than I am. The Section 513 I see says that "No person shall leave a vehicle unattended unless the brakes are securely set and the ignition key removed from the vehicle." A vehicle within view, IMO, is not unattended.
Good luck with that. Don't get pissed when the judge laughs in your face.
And you've never heard of this happening before. You missed all the news coverage last winter when stories were done when it was out of control?
Quote from: cannon_fodder on April 01, 2009, 07:54:18 AM
Every winter I see at least one Sheriff or Police vehicle running outside of QT.
I don't know about TPD, but some departments require patrol vehicles to be running at all times. I think that's more common in cases where the department doesn't have take home cars, though.
Quote
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that no one, not one person, ever left their car running at a gas station. Would car thief "x" find another way to steal a car? Yes.
Actually, not always the case. Thieves are generally a lazy lot, therefor tend to take advantage of crimes of opportunities. If the car wasn't sitting there running unattended (yes, it is unattended at this point because you might be able to see it, but you do not have direct access to it), then they wouldn't think "hey, there is an easy joyride/payday".
I think leaving a car unattended while running is dangerous in many ways.
Yes, your car could be stolen. But also, it could slip out of gear, and roll over someone.
Or a minor/child could enter the car, put it in gear, and run over someone. Particularly in a busy QT parking lot.
I wouldn't say leaving a running car is as dangerous as leaving a loaded gun lying on the ground, but I'd put it right behind such stupidity on a list of things you should never do. Cars can kill people, they weigh a lot, have many moving parts, and if you're not in the driver's seat, the vehicle should be shut off.
well, I wouldn't go as far as being in the drivers seat, but at least close enough at hand to intervine.