Is not very good.
My wife and I were at the Elton John/Billy Joel concert last night and I was amazed at the stuff people managed to carry in with them.
1. The family in front of us each had their own bottle of liquor. Dad had a bottle of Jameson, mom had some peach schnapps and junior had a bottle of vodka. This classy group of people were wearing jeans and t-shirts so I can't see how security missed the bottles. Well except for the obvious answer that they weren't looking.
2. The guy next to my wife had a video camera and a tripod. The camera was bad enough, but a tripod!?! Seriously! He was in the end seat and set it up next to him through the entire concert. I'm still amazed he got them into the show. To make it worse an usher walked by several times during the show and never bothered to say a word about it.
3. Lots and lots of "hippie lettuce" was being smoked last night. Easier to sneak in I know, but the smell is distinctive and I'm just surprised nothing was done about it. The older couple next to my wife ended up leaving about an hour into the show due to the smoke. I did my best Bill Clinton impersonation and did not inhale. *cough* *cough*
4. I never saw it, but my wife said some people in the section to the left of us had what looked to be a liter bottle of Jack Daniels they were passing around during the show.
The show itself was outstanding!
You don't go to many concerts do you?
Unless you are utterly retarded no one will do anything about whatever it is you are smoking at most "big" concert events. If you are smoking before the show starts you have a 50/50 shot of someone saying something. If you are on an aisle and an usher walks by, MAYBE they will say something. Otherwise, won't happen. I have a strong dislike for smoke, but I might dislike ushers getting into discussions with people during the show even more (not saying its OK to annoy other people and break the rules).
As for sneaking things in -
We don't really have security. We have the illusion of security. Just enough so the people that would probably follow the rules anyone definitely will follow the rules. Some shows are more strict than others, but in general it's a good look see and a next.
Getting a flask in, small camera, or smokes/pot wouldn't be a problem at all. But the fact that people snuck in liter bottles and video equipment pretty much tells me they shouldn't be bothering to pretend they have security. Clearly, the place wasn't secure and it's hard to imagine what they kept out (probably water bottles people were trying to bring in plain sight).
But glad to hear it was a good show.
Ahh, memories of the olden days when the lights went down at the Floyd concert and 10,000 lighters blazed through the haze in Texas Stadium. Yellow shirted security guards became blind, def, and dumb.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on March 18, 2009, 08:41:14 AM
You don't go to many concerts do you?
Unless you are utterly retarded no one will do anything about whatever it is you are smoking at most "big" concert events. If you are smoking before the show starts you have a 50/50 shot of someone saying something. If you are on an aisle and an usher walks by, MAYBE they will say something. Otherwise, won't happen. I have a strong dislike for smoke, but I might dislike ushers getting into discussions with people during the show even more (not saying its OK to annoy other people and break the rules).
As for sneaking things in -
We don't really have security. We have the illusion of security. Just enough so the people that would probably follow the rules anyone definitely will follow the rules. Some shows are more strict than others, but in general it's a good look see and a next.
Getting a flask in, small camera, or smokes/pot wouldn't be a problem at all. But the fact that people snuck in liter bottles and video equipment pretty much tells me they shouldn't be bothering to pretend they have security. Clearly, the place wasn't secure and it's hard to imagine what they kept out (probably water bottles people were trying to bring in plain sight).
But glad to hear it was a good show.
Hell, even a DSLR camera is not that difficult to get in. I've brought one to at least 15 different Oilers games (not a point and shoot, either) and have never had anyone ask me about it.
They were making people open their bags, but after that it was a quick glance. If you had anything stuck in the bottom of your bag with some other purse-ish items on top, they wouldn't have noticed.
I saw some smoke coming from the seating areas, so I figured some folks were smoking something.
I wish I'd brought my dslr. My nose would have still been bleeding, but at least I'd have been able to see what was going on better. (200mm of zoom helps a lot. ;))
The rules of what security is looking for, and how hard, varies by concert. With 19,000 people coming in at about the same time, you can't check very hard for much.
People were drinking booze at the BOK Center? And smoking Marywanna during a concert?
CALL THE NATIONAL GUARD! :o
Actually I go to a lot of concerts. Have been to almost every show at the BOK since it opened. Didn't go to Metallica or Celine Dion....
I was just shocked at what made it in last night. In the previous shows there were always people with cameras, but the guy with the video camera and the tripod just blew my mind.
The family in front of us with the liquor was a little over the top as well. It would be one thing to sneak in a flask or a small bottle, but an entire 5th of Jameson and Vodka along with a mediumish sized bottle of schnapps? That is someone in security not doing their job at all.
Yeah there are almost always going to be people smoking something or other at a concert, but it seemed more than usual last night. So much so that like I said the older couple next to us had to leave.
Quote from: wavoka on March 18, 2009, 10:07:34 AM
Yeah there are almost always going to be people smoking something or other at a concert, but it seemed more than usual last night. So much so that like I said the older couple next to us had to leave.
That seems to vary with who the acts is, as well. For Celine it was probably smuggled mini-champagne bottles and Cosmos.
A lot depends on the show. For the price to get into last night's show, you would hope that the crowd would be a little more respectful of others, or at the very least, share. ;D
Seriously, though, I've noticed that crowds seem to get more and more rude. Part of that is getting older and losing interest in standing towards the front at Cain's (I don't like getting nudged repeatedly in the kidneys and hate it when people do the shoulder grab to get by). But other than that, I do think crowds are more and more disruptive and try to create their own entertainment. The Tom Waits show at Brady last summer was nearly ruined by idiot fans interupting him. And generally, if an arena is supposed to be non-smoking (and they all are now), you should have the expectation that security will enforce it.
Strangely, one of the better shows I've been to lately was the Ryan Adams concert at Brady a couple of weeks back. The crowd was well behaved, the show went fine, and other than one guy trying to smoke in the hallway (he got an earful from a group of fans), it went off without a hitch.
This is something that BOk should look into. People have every right to expect a safe, smoke-free environment.
Quote from: wavoka on March 18, 2009, 10:07:34 AM
Actually I go to a lot of concerts. Have been to almost every show at the BOK since it opened. Didn't go to Metallica or Celine Dion....
I was just shocked at what made it in last night. In the previous shows there were always people with cameras, but the guy with the video camera and the tripod just blew my mind.
The family in front of us with the liquor was a little over the top as well. It would be one thing to sneak in a flask or a small bottle, but an entire 5th of Jameson and Vodka along with a mediumish sized bottle of schnapps? That is someone in security not doing their job at all.
Yeah there are almost always going to be people smoking something or other at a concert, but it seemed more than usual last night. So much so that like I said the older couple next to us had to leave.
I guess that video camera will put the show on youtube. Times have really changed, a local radio talk station (WLW 700) was doing a topic about concerts and this one caller said he went to a Peter, Paul & Mary concert in the 1960's and he brought along a reel to reel tape recorder and he asked someone there if he could plug it in somewhere, and they let him and he put the mic in front of the stage and taped the whole thing, he still has the recording of it. No one said anything about it back then. :D
Quote from: Gold on March 18, 2009, 10:42:09 AM
Strangely, one of the better shows I've been to lately was the Ryan Adams concert at Brady a couple of weeks back. The crowd was well behaved, the show went fine, and other than one guy trying to smoke in the hallway (he got an earful from a group of fans), it went off without a hitch.
This is something that BOk should look into. People have every right to expect a safe, smoke-free environment.
I was at this show as well. It was perfect. The crowd was enthusiastic but well-behaved and respectful. Anytime Ryan Adams says how impressive the crowd is, it's a good thing. And what a great show!
Quote from: sauerkraut on March 18, 2009, 10:44:30 AM
I guess that video camera will put the show on youtube. Times have really changed, a local radio talk station (WLW 700) was doing a topic about concerts and this one caller said he went to a Peter, Paul & Mary concert in the 1960's and he brought along a reel to reel tape recorder and he asked someone there if he could plug it in somewhere, and they let him and he put the mic in front of the stage and taped the whole thing, he still has the recording of it. No one said anything about it back then. :D
Yeah, that generation does it and now tries to sue everybody that would try.
The security asked if I had anything in my pockets. I showed the standard keys, wallet, cell phone. Didn't have anything else but not much different. Other concerts I have been patted down. Cameras can be annoying but I like them letting people bring them in. That all depends on the band. People like Metallica don't want anybody to know they suck so hard. So you can't bring anything that will record anything. I am suprised they let the large bottles of liquor in. But it doesn't really harm me, just their concessions.
Oh, and darn those people for not wearing business casual to concerts!
Quote from: wavoka on March 18, 2009, 10:07:34 AM
Actually I go to a lot of concerts. Have been to almost every show at the BOK since it opened. . .
Yeah there are almost always going to be people smoking something or other at a concert, but it seemed more than usual last night. So much so that like I said the older couple next to us had to leave.
Thanks for the perspective. If you go to a good number of shows and thought it was excessive it means a lot more than if you don't really go to shows. I wonder why it was so lax last night? All the good security out at St. Patties?
Quote from: Floyd on March 18, 2009, 10:49:43 AM
I was at this show as well. It was perfect. The crowd was enthusiastic but well-behaved and respectful. Anytime Ryan Adams says how impressive the crowd is, it's a good thing. And what a great show!
Agreed. When Ryan's happy, everyone is happy.... :) AMAZING show. I almost didn't go because I couldn't get anyone I knew to come with me, but I went alone, and I'm so glad I did.
Quote from: Trogdor on March 18, 2009, 10:50:12 AM
Cameras can be annoying but I like them letting people bring them in.
Cameras aren't annoying. Morons who think their dinky little flash on their point & shoot will have any effect more than 10 feet away are annoying. (my hot shoe flash is good for about 100 feet at ISO 1600 in the dark at f/4, although the exposure will still be on the low side it can be fixed in post processing)
At the beginning of the show I could easily have had an epileptic seizure from all the frakking camera flashes going off.
Even if you did have a big-donkey flash (and an enormous reflector to go with it!) that could light up the stage several hundred feet away it still would have been completely unnecessary.
There was little to complain about last night. At first, too long a wait. But all of a sudden the gates opened. Had to sacrifice my water which made me sad. Smell it if you think it's booze, security. There was no lettuce in the building to buck my smell senses.
Elton John is an icon....Not as great as in the 70's show at the Convention Center. But all in all, for an arena show it was top notch. Never heard acoustic pianos sound that way in a hockey rink. The sound was muddled when more musicians joined in.
The ticket price was not worth the show.
Tcketbastards!
Afterwards, the crowds at McNellies and in the Blue Dome were shameful and disgusting. St. Paddy amatures gone green. I wanted my camera to snap the dirty, dark side of Tulsa. Alcoholics and future alcoholics everywhere.
First, cameras are annoying when people hold them up recording the show and block your view half the time. That would be "some of the time". I know the flashes are stupid but they don't effect me as much as having a lit up screen facing me and in between me and the act.
On it being the best show in the world. At lunch somebody pointed out that Elton forgot some of the words. I was disappointed by Elton and thought that Billy Joel carried him. I thought Billy Joel sounded better on Elton's songs than he did.
I thought it was a fantastic concert. Here's what amazed me:
The access people had to the stage!
Last summer a friend and I went to see Jack Johnson at an outdoor concert. He had secret service-like security. Bags were thoroughly searched. There was an 8 foot barrier separating the crowd from the stage, and no way anyone could shake his hand or beg for an autograph. (My friend wanted to pass him a note about how his music helped her get through cancer treatments... no dice!)
Last night, these two huge stars took time to shake hands and sign autographs. The weirdest thing was when some lanky kid jumped up on stage between songs and ran to Elton John's microphone and asked his girlfriend to marry him. Sir Elton, to his credit, didn't miss a beat... but I was amazed the kid wasn't tackled before he reached the piano.
Quote from: Trogdor on March 18, 2009, 01:12:08 PM
On it being the best show in the world. At lunch somebody pointed out that Elton forgot some of the words. I was disappointed by Elton and thought that Billy Joel carried him. I thought Billy Joel sounded better on Elton's songs than he did.
I thought Billy Joel sounded better on Billy Joel's songs, in that he tended to stay closer to the album in his lyrics.
Elton seemed to do a lot more playing around with things (and his voice sounded somewhat hoarse). I really loved the extended piano play at the end of Rocket Man. ;D
And why people can't use the viewfinder on their camera, I'll never figure out. I guess the same stupidity that drives them to not turn off the flash. They both suck down the battery for absolutely no gain whatsoever (in most situations).
Ponder: It seemed there was some discussion between that fellow and some security and Elton John after he had hopped up on stage but before he made it to the mic. Perhaps security was just being nice rather than grabbing him forcefully.
Quote from: nathanm on March 18, 2009, 11:59:55 AM
Morons who think their dinky little flash on their point & shoot will have any effect more than 10 feet away are annoying.
At some point they should figure out the flash ruins their picture because it's only reflecting off the smoke between you and the stage, and the picture is more hazy than had they not used flash.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on March 18, 2009, 10:57:24 AM
All the good security out at St. Patties?
More than 50 Tulsa Police officers will be working downtown Tuesday night, in addition to security guards hired by bars in the Blue Dome District, Sheriff's deputies, and Oklahoma Highway Patrolmen.
He says officers are pulled from each uniform division- Gilcrease, Riverside and Mingo Valley, to work the downtown area.
But, for those people outside downtown, they're relying on their faith that nothing will happen.http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/More-Officers-Downtown/tQ2nh_vC0E-FYI1aKO1awg.cspx
Quote from: RipTout on March 18, 2009, 12:48:07 PM
Afterwards, the crowds at McNellies and in the Blue Dome were shameful and disgusting. St. Paddy amateurs gone green. I wanted my camera to snap the dirty, dark side of Tulsa. Alcoholics and future alcoholics everywhere.
I was downtown yesterday. I saw plenty of drunk people. Some idiots. Plenty of interesting people and tons of green.
I saw no fighting. I saw/smelled no one smoking pot. I saw no girls flash the crowds. I didn't see anyone get arrested. The security I saw was appropriately at arms length, but there if needed.
I saw mostly young professionals out having fun. I saw life in the streets and money being spent downtown that will mostly stay in Tulsa. What exactly did you find so horrible?
I can only assume that you find Beale Street, Bourbon street, 5th in Austin, the power and light district in DC, and most other places that draw crowds for entertainment as shameful and disgusting. When properly placed and controlled I call that a lively city.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on March 18, 2009, 03:47:34 PM
I was downtown yesterday. I saw plenty of drunk people. Some idiots. Plenty of interesting people and tons of green.
I saw no fighting. I saw/smelled no one smoking pot. I saw no girls flash the crowds. I didn't see anyone get arrested. The security I saw was appropriately at arms length, but there if needed.
I saw mostly young professionals out having fun. I saw life in the streets and money being spent downtown that will mostly stay in Tulsa. What exactly did you find so horrible?
I can only assume that you find Beale Street, Bourbon street, 5th in Austin, the power and light district in DC, and most other places that draw crowds for entertainment as shameful and disgusting. When properly placed and controlled I call that a lively city.
My friend was in Austin and on 5th.. Anyway, on the way back to the car he pass a person passed out on the street with the ambulance coming, a guy knock out his girlfriend, and a few people trying to pick a fight with him. That was all over like 3 blocks just trying to get back to his car :D Unrelated, but quite crazy story of what can happen on a 5 minute walk with drunk people everywhere.
The city was lively. For several hours a year we get this.
All good. Wish it were like that every night.
Question. What would happen if there was a baseball game, a huge BOK event, concerts in the soon to be newly named Brady district at the Cain's and Brady?
Parking catastrophe?
Quote from: wavoka on March 18, 2009, 08:34:30 AM
Is not very good.
My wife and I were at the Elton John/Billy Joel concert last night and I was amazed at the stuff people managed to carry in with them.
1. The family in front of us each had their own bottle of liquor. Dad had a bottle of Jameson, mom had some peach schnapps and junior had a bottle of vodka. This classy group of people were wearing jeans and t-shirts so I can't see how security missed the bottles. Well except for the obvious answer that they weren't looking.
2. The guy next to my wife had a video camera and a tripod. The camera was bad enough, but a tripod!?! Seriously! He was in the end seat and set it up next to him through the entire concert. I'm still amazed he got them into the show. To make it worse an usher walked by several times during the show and never bothered to say a word about it.
3. Lots and lots of "hippie lettuce" was being smoked last night. Easier to sneak in I know, but the smell is distinctive and I'm just surprised nothing was done about it. The older couple next to my wife ended up leaving about an hour into the show due to the smoke. I did my best Bill Clinton impersonation and did not inhale. *cough* *cough*
4. I never saw it, but my wife said some people in the section to the left of us had what looked to be a liter bottle of Jack Daniels they were passing around during the show.
The show itself was outstanding!
Were they being rude/unruly? ...if not, WHO CARES!
Quote from: FOTD on March 18, 2009, 06:59:14 PM
The city was lively. For several hours a year we get this.
All good. Wish it were like that every night.
Question. What would happen if there was a baseball game, a huge BOK event, concerts in the soon to be newly named Brady district at the Cain's and Brady?
Parking catastrophe?
If by "catastrophe" you mean we might fill half the parking spots, then yes.
How many people work (and park) downtown every day? I can't remember the number b/c I suck at statistics, but it's at least 50,000 isn't it? In any case, even during the day, there's plenty of parking.
So if you filled up every conceivable venue at night...no problem.
Try to remember this fact:
PARKING LOTS COVER 50% OF DOWNTOWN TULSA.
That is the catastrophe.
I don't like walking for 15 minutes to get places when I am in a hurry because I am going to eat + go to a concert that starts at 7:00 :(
Quote from: Trogdor on March 19, 2009, 03:17:58 PM
I don't like walking for 15 minutes to get places when I am in a hurry because I am going to eat + go to a concert that starts at 7:00 :(
lol.
First of all, if you parked in the vast swatches of empty lots near McNelly's it is only a 10 minute walk to the BOk center. If you parked at the ridiculously large lots between TCC and Boston Ave. Church you it is a 15 minute walk. More often than not, you'll be able to find something closer.
Second, move to North Dakota. There is never an event in the entire state you can't park within 3 minutes of. Notably because there is never an event in the state.
Third - what is your proposed solution? Have less events? Or level more buildings for parking? Frankly if parking becomes an actual problem we will have more parking ramps - which increases both the density of the area, the urban landscape (if done right the space as a whole), and the tax base of the city.
Fourth, I don't like walking 15 minutes either really. But I consider it part of the price of admission to a big event. A concert at the BOk center, Oktoberfest, a TU game . . . let alone really big events (OU football, concert festival, etc). You have to either consider it part of the experience or pay to get around the problem (monthly parking pass at the Courthouse if you really can't stand it).
Quote from: cannon_fodder on March 19, 2009, 03:41:40 PM
lol.
First of all, if you parked in the vast swatches of empty lots near McNelly's it is only a 10 minute walk to the BOk center. If you parked at the ridiculously large lots between TCC and Boston Ave. Church you it is a 15 minute walk. More often than not, you'll be able to find something closer.
Second, move to North Dakota. There is never an event in the entire state you can't park within 3 minutes of. Notably because there is never an event in the state.
Third - what is your proposed solution? Have less events? Or level more buildings for parking? Frankly if parking becomes an actual problem we will have more parking ramps - which increases both the density of the area, the urban landscape (if done right the space as a whole), and the tax base of the city.
Fourth, I don't like walking 15 minutes either really. But I consider it part of the price of admission to a big event. A concert at the BOk center, Oktoberfest, a TU game . . . let alone really big events (OU football, concert festival, etc). You have to either consider it part of the experience or pay to get around the problem (monthly parking pass at the Courthouse if you really can't stand it).
I don't know what parking was like 30 minutes before Elton John. Maybe it was fine. My point is, if you park at TCC parking lot it will take you 15 minutes to get to Joe Momma's . Then another 10 minutes to the BOK. 25 minutes is a lot of walking time if you are scheduled for something that starts after work. If people feel rushed they will find other eating arrangements next time. I am saying that just because you can walk from point a to point b without the use of a canteen doesn't mean that it is a good parking spot for events. I am not even saying that there is a parking problem. Just that the 15-20 minute walking distances spots shouldn't be considered for BOK/Baseball event parking. But really very few people or businesses would want you to do it when you could be spending money in their store or having an extra beer.
I haven't been to events late enough to even know if the parking garages next to the BOK center even fill up for events. I just don't think 25 minutes of walking to eating areas to baseball/concerts are too far to be included in the "parking"
Build on existing parking and consolidate some to another parking garage (when and if we need it). I just like having a plan of where I am going and how long it takes me to get there.
Just to clarify, I am not saying that there needs to be more parking right now or ever. I just don't like the idea that any parking space anywhere in downtown is good enough for some events. Luckily we have enough parking we could do Mayfest + Concert at BOK + Brady concert at the same time (I would imagine) because we have such a wide area of parking.
I understand what you are saying. But if you plan it out you can avoid the problem. Park near the Blue Dome or int he Brady District if you want to eat first. No need to park as far away from both of your destinations as possible - particularly if you are going early enough to eat before hand. Accept the challenge, find the good parking places!
The problem is that Tulsa can not design parking downtown for peak loads to be convenient. It just isn't economical. Building a super ramp next to the BOk Center so it can be filled every other month is a huge loss of money for both the new structure and existing structures.
Maybe someone needs to start a valet parking service in the area, using OSU Tulsa or some other semi-far flung lot as the parking area. Or you could call the rickshaw company to meet you at your car. Always wanted to do that.
Downtown Circulator
I thought I read that universally every downtown that is active or being revitalized has a regular bus/trolley loop, except Tulsa. It would allow people to take it to the office in the morning or the concert at night. You just up the bus frequency at peak times/major events.
Think a square with corners 1st and Detroit and 11th and Denver.
Quote from: cannon_fodder on March 20, 2009, 08:26:39 AM
The problem is that Tulsa can not design parking downtown for peak loads to be convenient. It just isn't economical. Building a super ramp next to the BOk Center so it can be filled every other month is a huge loss of money for both the new structure and existing structures.
It is too bad there isn't more business to use a structure like that. Hopefully in the future! Right now, I don't think we have too many parking lots because I think it is impossible to have too many parking lots when you have too many vacant buildings! You can always build something on a parking lot... (But you don't need to tear a building down to make another one)
Quote from: Trogdor on March 20, 2009, 09:11:43 AM
It is too bad there isn't more business to use a structure like that. Hopefully in the future! Right now, I don't think we have too many parking lots because I think it is impossible to have too many parking lots when you have too many vacant buildings! You can always build something on a parking lot... (But you don't need to tear a building down to make another one)
We have so much parking so spread out that most people 1) wouldn't know where to go to pick it up and 2) it would be so slow if it stopped every other block.
Quote from: sgrizzle on March 20, 2009, 09:11:41 AM
Downtown Circulator
I thought I read that universally every downtown that is active or being revitalized has a regular bus/trolley loop, except Tulsa. It would allow people to take it to the office in the morning or the concert at night. You just up the bus frequency at peak times/major events.
Think a square with corners 1st and Detroit and 11th and Denver.
A Downtown Circulator is a chicken & egg. We can't afford a circulator until we have the business & VS. I agree we need one. I don't know what the best route(s) would be. Service would need to be frequent enough that no one looked at a schedule, they just go to the stop and wait.
See also the proposal by SWSX:
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=6643.msg123737#msg123737
You couldn't find anyone to go? Good grief call me!