Was that ever talked about when it was being designed?
Survey says......
no
Once a toll road, always a toll road. Turner, Will Rogers and H.E. Bailey, 50 plus years as money makers for the OTA. At least the monet they make is suppposed to go back into the roads.
To make the toll roads free, you'd have to have an increase in fuel taxes to compensate. I don't see it happening.
Imagine the Turnpike Authority reaction.
Never happen.
Dream on~ Once a toll road always a toll road. The state Oklahoma always talked about getting rid of the tolls one day, but that day never comes. In Ohio they were to get rid of the toll on the Ohio Turnpike once the road was paid off, but when the time came and the road was paid off, they decided to keep the toll for road up-keep & road repair. The only toll road I know of that gone away was the Dallas-Fort Worth I-30 TurnPike, it got paid off in 1978 and they made the road free. There could be other turnpikes that went away but I don't know of any.[xx(] [B)]
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
To make the toll roads free, you'd have to have an increase in fuel taxes to compensate. I don't see it happening.
Other states have free roads, Michigan has no toll roads. If they can do it why not Oklahoma? Just fund the roads the same way the other states do. Missouri has low fuel taxes and I-44 thru Missouri is free, at the Oklahoma state line it's a toll road. IMO I think the TurnPike Authority gets too big and powerful and many high paying jobs are on the line, so they keep the toll roads. The TurnPike Authority can get very powerful.[xx(] [B)]
I'd rather pay the toll than deal with massive potholes, damaged guard rails gone unfixed, sudden decreasing radius turns with off-camber angles.... the only really bad part about the creek is the lack of center median which means the cops love to camp it.
Michigan has no toll roads because Michigan more than anywhere else benefits from our addiction to cars. The more roads and the less transportation alternatives, the happier Michigan is.
Frankly, I don't mind well managed toll roads. Make the toll primarily pay for THAT road, a real use tax. I understand there will be an operating skim. I also understand that when the road is paid off there will be a skim to subsidize new projects. But PRIMARILY, they should self fund.
Use taxes are the most fair taxes available. You use it, you pay for it.
I think Tulsa is better off with the Creek turnpike as a toll road than simply not having it. Likewise, the roads primary purpose is to make living outside of Tulsa more convenient. As a Tulsan it doesn't help me in any way to pay for people to commute more quickly from Broken Arrow, etc. That road isn't helping our regional trade or manufacturing, it's a commuter road. I paid for a residents near where I work, so in my selfishness I don't want to subsidize someone else's commuter habits.
Is the Turnpike Authority a private corporation?
If so, then no.
Since I never need to drive on that road, I say leave it alone. Those who use it are the only ones who have to pay for it.
quote:
Originally posted by EricP
I'd rather pay the toll than deal with massive potholes, damaged guard rails gone unfixed, sudden decreasing radius turns with off-camber angles.... the only really bad part about the creek is the lack of center median which means the cops love to camp it.
I don't think the toll roads will ever go away, but I am curious about states that have managed to have good roads...and no tolls. What do they know that OK doesn't?
quote:
Originally posted by naenae42day
quote:
Originally posted by EricP
I'd rather pay the toll than deal with massive potholes, damaged guard rails gone unfixed, sudden decreasing radius turns with off-camber angles.... the only really bad part about the creek is the lack of center median which means the cops love to camp it.
I don't think the toll roads will ever go away, but I am curious about states that have managed to have good roads...and no tolls. What do they know that OK doesn't?
How to prioritize?
LOL
quote:
Originally posted by naenae42day
quote:
Originally posted by EricP
I'd rather pay the toll than deal with massive potholes, damaged guard rails gone unfixed, sudden decreasing radius turns with off-camber angles.... the only really bad part about the creek is the lack of center median which means the cops love to camp it.
I don't think the toll roads will ever go away, but I am curious about states that have managed to have good roads...and no tolls. What do they know that OK doesn't?
Higher state gas taxes.
quote:
Originally posted by naenae42day
quote:
Originally posted by EricP
I'd rather pay the toll than deal with massive potholes, damaged guard rails gone unfixed, sudden decreasing radius turns with off-camber angles.... the only really bad part about the creek is the lack of center median which means the cops love to camp it.
I don't think the toll roads will ever go away, but I am curious about states that have managed to have good roads...and no tolls. What do they know that OK doesn't?
Higher fuel taxes, and more population from which to generate them. Oklahoma has a double-whammy -- very low gax taxes, and a dinky population with a lot of real estate in which roads are needed.
Ding! Ding! Ding! Hoss and rwarn, nail on the head!
Oklahoma also has the misfortune of being geographically located in a climate zone that features the exact kind of weather conditions that do roads the most damage.
We can blame politicians all day, but we can't ignore the fact that our freezing and melting and freezing and melting and ice storms and 100 degree days cause more harm to our roads than politicians ever will.
Solution? Rail. Public Transit. More Turnpikes. Make it easy to not have a car and annoying to drive one and you'll begin to reverse our "car-centric" ways. We'll have nicer roads, more accessibility, and our public transit hubs and corridors will be appealing areas for economic development.
We can't get rid of our weather, but we can lessen its impact on our roads by lessening our dependence on cars.
quote:
Originally posted by naenae42day
quote:
Originally posted by EricP
I'd rather pay the toll than deal with massive potholes, damaged guard rails gone unfixed, sudden decreasing radius turns with off-camber angles.... the only really bad part about the creek is the lack of center median which means the cops love to camp it.
I don't think the toll roads will ever go away, but I am curious about states that have managed to have good roads...and no tolls. What do they know that OK doesn't?
I have been on Oklahoma toll roads that were full of pot holes and with ruff pavement, Kansas also has some bumpy toll roads too, so not all toll roads are well kept.. Michigan is NOT the only state with no toll roads, there are many states with no toll roads. Oklahoma's problem IMO is they have too many toll roads and most of them circle Tulsa. OKC has a free I-35 and I-40 Interstates. Tulsa has no free Interstate highways around the area. (The Tulsa interstate roads are free only inside the metro area, as soon as you leave the metro area the roads all go toll)I think Oklahoma should make at least I-44 free and keep the other roads as toll roads. At the very least I'd like to see I-44 free from Missouri to Tulsa, but even better I'd like I-44 free from Missouri to OKC. Getting rid of one or two toll roads would help alot IMO.[}:)]
first, to even call this a turnpike is a joke, the whole idea of a turnpike is to be able to travel long distances, at higher speeds,
the creek (for a large part) has an exit and entrance every mile, and is 65 mph, ist that just an interstate?
I myself, boycott the creek.
Seems like I remember hearing once that another contributing factor is that Oklahoma diverts a surprising proportion of its gas tax revenue to non-transportation related issues.
Anybody know if I heard that correctly?