I have one question, how does WTC 7 fall from "Thermal Expansion", and this building burned outright and did not collapse?
Fire Consumes WTC 7 Size Skyscraper (//%22http://www.prisonplanet.com/fire-consumes-wtc-7-size-skyscraper-building-does-not-collapse.html%22)
"NIST!!! You have some splainin to do!!!"
I see a market for sprinkler systems in the middle kingdom.
lol. I know what happened.
quote:
A tinfoil hat source says
both WTC 7 and the twin towers were destroyed by explosives that were seen and heard by dozens of eyewitnesses who were at ground zero.
. . .
Office fires - even the flame shooting towering inferno variety - cannot cause modern buildings to implode in on themselves and collapse.
George Bush hired the airlines to get stunt people to pretend to hijack the planes so they could reduce their inventories of planes. To set it up they had pretend terrorists attend fake flight schools for years and even created a fake mastermind and fake communications. They then had those stunt people make fake phone calls to their loved ones pretending to be on airplanes and then relocated them in the witness protection program. Meanwhile, air traffic controllers were bribed to report pretend planes doing pretend things. THEN, fake planes were flown into buildings in NYC, fighter jets shot down a random plane in Pennsylvania, and a cruise missile was shot at the Pentagon. PREVIOUSLY, thousands of tons of explosives were secretly placed on the buildings and strategic columns weakened. After the planes hit they let the buildings burn for a little while and fake people were thrown from them to give firefighters a chance to run into the buildings. THEN, they detonated explosives and took down all the buildings so that they could profit.
George Bush was a mastermind. The government is really good at super giant elaborate plans and keeping secrets forever. Engineers are stupid can can't really know what happened/every respectable engineer on the planet is bribed by the government. AND, while we can't figure out how they profited from it, I'm sure they did.
Or...
MY THEORY... and the one engineers and demolition experts that actually have degrees and looked into this, is that 25% of the structural integrity of WTC7 was lost on the bottom 10 floors when the side facing the towers was destroyed by the falling debris. Furthermore, the foundation was damaged by the destruction of the towers coupled with the earthquake like intensity of the collapse. Combined with 7 hours of fire the structure resulted in a pancake collapse.
A building constructed post 9/11 and 30 years later likely has more high tech engineering and fire suppression. Lack of the collapse of a 100 story structure next door and a firm foundation probably also helped. Otherwise, perfect example of how similar these two are. (conspiracy theorist will consistently ignore the 25% damage figure as it doesn't help their cause. They will also ignore the WHY factor and the mass of people that would have to be involved. They also refuse to admit that GW was a genius who perpetrated the greatest unknown crime of all time.)
Also, the site says WTC 7 fell "within 7 seconds on 9/11." Wow, really? Unreal. I thought it would fall in slow motion UNLESS explosives brought it down. Explosives increase the force of gravity you know.
The sites actual slogan is "the truth will set you free." Other headlines on the main site:
- Report Of "People Planting Bombs" on 9/11
- Newly Released Footage: Pentagon Witness Describes Second Plane Following Flight 77 on 9/11
IN OTHER NEWS, super secret government alien plots and JFK myths are down 75% since 911. Engineers and demolition experts, or PrisonPlanet.com. Choices choices choices.
You know what really sucks? The conspiracy theorists saying stupid things like the buildings were brought down by explosives, or that a cruise missile was shot at the pentagon make it impossible to have a reasonable discussion on the improbability of 7WTC's collapse.
And that they disposed of the evidence so quickly that it gives the kooks a lot of room to operate. That really sucks. They shouldn't have melted down all the evidence as fast as they possibly could. Steel prices weren't that high at the time!
(Note that improbability does not in any way imply malicious action)
I figure it was that electrical substation that the building was partly cantilevered over and the tens of thousands of gallons of diesel fuel burning at the point at which the load of all the cantilevered upper floors was transferred to the smaller floor area lower floors.
Most of the damage caused to the WFC buildings was cosmetic. Blown out windows and a messed up facade mainly. There's not much reason 7WTC should have been different.
It does seem that in the absence of the collapse of the first building, there probably would have been no collapsed buildings on that day. Just a whole lot more demolition work to be done.[}:)]
No matter how unwilling to accept complex scientific principles some religious fundamentalists are, Altrusmurfers comes along to set the bar just that much higher.
I tried to start my truck the other day and it didn't start despite the fact many similar vehicles started just fine. I have been looking for black box devices installed by George Bush, Halliburton, the NSA and Colonel Sanders.
Sometimes when I try to make a phone call on my cell phone, it doesn't go through, despite the fact that they do 99% of the time. I suspect a conspiracy perpetrated by the land line phone companies in conjuction with Dick Cheney, the Coast Guard, and the Waltons.
If you haven't heard, the real secret agenda is from the Knights Doppler, or Cloud Elders as they are sometimes called. http://www.theonion.com/content/video/weather_channel_accused_of_pro
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
I suspect a conspiracy perpetrated by the land line phone companies in conjuction with Dick Cheney, the Coast Guard, and the Waltons.
The Waltons? The family from "Little House on the Prairie"?
I never trusted them.
Don't forget the Queen, the Vatican, the gettys, the Rothchilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tits up.
I do agree that an honest discussion would be fun. But they start with the premise that there is a conspiracy and set out to "prove" it.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Don't forget the Queen, the Vatican, the gettys, the Rothchilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tits up.
I do agree that an honest discussion would be fun. But they start with the premise that there is a conspiracy and set out to "prove" it.
Alright Cannon, you made a reasonable request I would like to honor it. Lets have an honest discussion and try to limit the 3rd grade nonsense.
quote:
Originally posted by altruismsuffers
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Don't forget the Queen, the Vatican, the gettys, the Rothchilds, and Colonel Sanders before he went tits up.
I do agree that an honest discussion would be fun. But they start with the premise that there is a conspiracy and set out to "prove" it.
Alright Cannon, you made a reasonable request I would like to honor it. Lets have an honest discussion and try to limit the 3rd grade nonsense.
First you have to advance above the 2nd grade mentality to even get to 3rd grade nonsense...
This is a detailed explanation of how WTC 7 could not have collapsed as explained by NIST produced by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.
WTC7: Nist Finally Admits Freefall (Part I) (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0GHVEKrhng%22)
WTC7: Nist Finally Admits Freefall (Part II) (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtKLtUiww80%22)
WTC7: Nist Finally Admits Freefall (Part III) (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz43hcKYBm4%22)
You know, here's what I don't understand:
The Cylons nuked the planets of the twelve colonies, including Caprica City. A city of seven million, they dropped at least 5 or 6 nuclear bombs on it. Later, the city seems intact.
If these were high level nukes dropped for EMP effect only, what the heck happened to all the people?
quote:
Originally posted by Neptune
You know, here's what I don't understand:
The Cylons nuked the planets of the twelve colonies, including Caprica City. A city of seven million, they dropped at least 5 or 6 nuclear bombs on it. Later, the city seems intact.
If these were high level nukes dropped for EMP effect only, what the heck happened to all the people?
Nuetron bombs, my friend. Nuetron bombs.
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
Nuetron bombs, my friend. Nuetron bombs.
I could see that, except, the first episode gave every indication that these were thermonuclear detonations. The buildings seemed to have been leveled. Yet later, even most the windows are intact.
Maybe it was a combination of both devices. Level parts of it, just incinerate the civilians everywhere else.
Or maybe it was a conspiracy between President Adar and the cylons. Adar is probably living it up on Caprica now. Tricky republicans.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
I suspect a conspiracy perpetrated by the land line phone companies in conjuction with Dick Cheney, the Coast Guard, and the Waltons.
The Waltons? The family from "Little House on the Prairie"?
I never trusted them.
C'mon, RM, I know you're better at trivia than that--the Waltons lived in Virginia (closer to DC, so the could plot to overthrow the government). The Ingalls were on the Prairie. Get your bad 70s tv straight.
quote:
Originally posted by altruismsuffers
This is a detailed explanation of how WTC 7 could not have collapsed as explained by NIST produced by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.
WTC7: Nist Finally Admits Freefall (Part I) (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0GHVEKrhng%22)
WTC7: Nist Finally Admits Freefall (Part II) (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtKLtUiww80%22)
WTC7: Nist Finally Admits Freefall (Part III) (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz43hcKYBm4%22)
This is why no one takes it seriously. One statement over the course of an 8 year investigation is used to PROVE that they REALLY know what happened. Better yet, the implication is that those videos are the findings of the NIST. Those videos are not produced, endorsed, nor supported by the findings of the NIST.
quote:
"Video and photographic evidence combined with detailed computer simulations show that neither explosives nor fuel oil fires played a role in the collapse of WTC 7," [NIST WTC Lead Investigator] Sunder said.
Here is the link to the website the NIST has set up to debunk the myth that you are propogating:
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/wtc_qa_082108.html
The report, released in December of 2008, includes tidbits that seem to be directly to your point. Discussing why WTC7 was destroyed and many other buildings were not by fires.
quote:
Did investigators consider the possibility that an explosion caused or contributed to the collapse of WTC 7?
Yes, this possibility was investigated carefully. NIST concluded that blast events inside the building did not occur and found no evidence supporting the existence of a blast event.
. . .
Is it possible that thermite or thermate contributed to the collapse of WTC 7?
NIST has looked at the application and use of thermite and has determined that its use to sever columns in WTC 7 on 9/11/01 was unlikely.
I would be happy to have a real debate, but it is pointless. The conspiracy ilk will take any thread they can and pretend it is a finding that supports them. No matter what evidence is found, no matter what findings of fact, no matter what... you'd still claim it was a grand conspiracy. So why bother?
Logically, you can not cling to one statement and pretend it PROVES that engineers, scientist, demolition experts, and architects have shown that it was taken down by a vast conspiracy. In this instance, the NIST findings are
VERY clear that there is no evidence to support the conspiracy theory - in spite of what the 3 part youtube video might say.
I'm more than happy to call BS on the government. But in this instance it simply doesn't fit. Blowing up WTC 1 and 2 wasn't good enough, they REALLY needed that 3rd building to make it dramatic (never mind who THEY are or why THEY would want to or why none of THEM has blabbed for the game and publicity).
and my quote wasn't on the 3rd grade level, it was a movie quote I hoped someone would pick up on. I've given you a good bit of respect in my replies considering the topic, but the very notions that you are raising as NEW have been very well covered by the source you cited.
http://wtc.nist.gov/
Thanks for the correction. The Walton's had that annoying John Boy character.
I never really watched much of these shows. I was more into cartoons and watching Jeopardy.
One of my most anticipated lines to say in my life is, "cartoons for 2,000, Alex."
We may never know everything that happened that day. We will certainly know more than we know now, in another 15 years. Over time I've run across arguments questioning official reports that I found very compelling. From the Get-Go I've believed that we shot down Flight "what was it" 93 to protect Washington.
I think it's a little naive to believe that we know everything about it. Reminds me of the bright but naive woman from Oakland that told me -- with a straight face -- there is no mob corruption on the West Coast.
I would like to get the full story on the Kennedy assassination before I die. That's where my generation's cynicism began. I mean, we acknowledge there is still information being withheld and President Ford raised questions about the CIA's role before he died.
I mean, do you guys turn off the news at night satisfied that you have heard the whole truth about everything that happened that day? If you do, I'm envious of your simplicity and your ability to trust.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
We may never know everything that happened that day. We will certainly know more than we know now, in another 15 years. Over time I've run across arguments questioning official reports that I found very compelling. From the Get-Go I've believed that we shot down Flight "what was it" 93 to protect Washington.
That sound you just heard is Hometown's credibility flying out the window.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Thanks for the correction. The Walton's had that annoying John Boy character.
I never really watched much of these shows. I was more into cartoons and watching Jeopardy.
One of my most anticipated lines to say in my life is, "cartoons for 2,000, Alex."
And John Boy is now the voice of Mercedes Benz. He's come a long way from a Model A truck.
OK Cannon I don't need to go into detail. NIST originally claimed that the building did NOT FALL AT FREE FALL SPEED because that would require a lack of resistance or NO RESISTANCE. Then they come back and change their story and say YES THE BUILDING DID FALL AT FREE FALL SPEED. How do you explain this silly anomaly. And remember, this is NIST, the bees knees, the cream of the crop.
-Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)
During the first round of questions in the Aug 26, 2008 NIST Technical Briefing (at 1:01:45 into the presentation) the following question was asked by David Chandler:
"Any number of competent measurements using a variety of methods indicate the northwest corner of WTC 7 fell with an acceleration within a few percent of the acceleration of gravity. Yet your report contradicts this, claiming 40% slower than freefall based on a single data point. How can such a public, visible, easily measurable quantity be set aside?"
Dr. Shyam Sunder replies:
"Could you repeat the question?"
[the question is repeated by the moderator, leaving out the word, "competent" as well as the last sentence]
"Well...um...the...first of all gravity...um...gravity is the loading function that applies to the structure...um...at...um...applies....to every body...every...uh...on...all bodies on...ah...on...um... this particular...on this planet not just...um...uh...in ground zero...um...the...uh...the analysis shows a difference in time between a free fall time, a free fall time would be an object that has no...uh... structural components below it. And if you look at the analysis of the video it shows that the time it takes for the...17...uh...for the roof line of the video to collapse down the 17 floors that you can actually see in the video below which you can't see anything in the video is about...uh... 3.9 seconds. What the analysis shows...and...uh...the structural analysis shows, the collapse analysis shows that same time that it took for the structural model to come down from the roof line all the way for those 17 floors to disappear is...um... 5.4 seconds. It's...uh..., about one point...uh...five seconds or roughly 40% more time for that free fall to happen. And that is not at all unusual because there was structural resistance that was provided in this particular case. And you had...you had a sequence of structural failures that had to take place and everything was not instantaneous."
--------
Note that:
--He acknowledges that freefall can only occur if there is no structure under the falling section of the building.
--He acknowledges that their structural modeling predicts a fall slower than freefall.
--He acknowledges that there was structural resistance in this particular case.
--He acknowledges that there was a sequence of failures that had to take place and that this process was not instantaneous.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I would like to get the full story on the Kennedy assassination before I die. That's where my generation's cynicism began. I mean, we acknowledge there is still information being withheld and President Ford raised questions about the CIA's role before he died.
I mean, do you guys turn off the news at night satisfied that you have heard the whole truth about everything that happened that day? If you do, I'm envious of your simplicity and your ability to trust.
Hometown thank you for using your brain and thinking critically instead of responding emotionally like most of these children. I suggest that you watch JFK II http://myexpandedmind.com/Movies/JFKII.html (//%22http://myexpandedmind.com/Movies/JFKII.html%22) It does have some corny cartoons but the evidence they provide contrary to the official story is astounding.
""The fire was burning from the ground floor to the top floor of the large building, the flames reflecting in the glass facade of the main CCTV tower next to the hotel and cultural center," reports the New York Times.
"The 241-room Mandarin Oriental hotel in the building was due to open this year. Flames were spotted around 7:45 p.m. and within 20 minutes the fire had spread throughout the building, dominating that part of the city."'
Just an observation here, but WTC7 was built in the early to mid 70's. The one in Bejing was still under construction and was being built in a part of the world that is prone to large earthquakes. I don't think that you can honestly compare the two.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
No matter how unwilling to accept complex scientific principles some religious fundamentalists are, Altrusmurfers comes along to set the bar just that much higher.
I tried to start my truck the other day and it didn't start despite the fact many similar vehicles started just fine. I have been looking for black box devices installed by George Bush, Halliburton, the NSA and Colonel Sanders.
Sometimes when I try to make a phone call on my cell phone, it doesn't go through, despite the fact that they do 99% of the time. I suspect a conspiracy perpetrated by the land line phone companies in conjuction with Dick Cheney, the Coast Guard, and the Waltons.
If you haven't heard, the real secret agenda is from the Knights Doppler, or Cloud Elders as they are sometimes called. http://www.theonion.com/content/video/weather_channel_accused_of_pro
The Little House on The Prairie Waltons?
I always suspected they were up to no good.
quote:
Originally posted by dbacks fan
""The fire was burning from the ground floor to the top floor of the large building, the flames reflecting in the glass facade of the main CCTV tower next to the hotel and cultural center," reports the New York Times.
"The 241-room Mandarin Oriental hotel in the building was due to open this year. Flames were spotted around 7:45 p.m. and within 20 minutes the fire had spread throughout the building, dominating that part of the city."'
Just an observation here, but WTC7 was built in the early to mid 70's. The one in Bejing was still under construction and was being built in a part of the world that is prone to large earthquakes. I don't think that you can honestly compare the two.
Yes, and one was masonry and steel, while the other was steel and glass. There was no structural load on the glass, so the steel skeleton built well.
There was also no concussive explosion like the tanks of two aircraft exploding over yonder. Or the shock waves from the collapse of two skyscrapers a hop-n-skip away.
But common sense aside, there's no doubt that GW's back in Crawford planning his next attack.
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
But common sense aside, there's no doubt that GW's back in Crawford planning his next attack.
Dallas
(http://ndn2.newsweek.com/media/38/g_prezpadsSLAH2.jpg)
1 Question - would anything ever convince you that this wasn't a conspiracy?
I suspect the answer is no, hence - no point int the discussion.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
1 Question - would anything ever convince you that this wasn't a conspiracy?
I suspect the answer is no, hence - no point int the discussion.
Have you given me any evidence to prove it happened the way that "they" say, or are you just repeating what "they" say? Give me some evidence outside of the official story and investigators which I am claiming is false.
quote:
Originally posted by altruismsuffers
I have one question, how does WTC 7 fall from "Thermal Expansion", and this building burned outright and did not collapse?
Fire Consumes WTC 7 Size Skyscraper (//%22http://www.prisonplanet.com/fire-consumes-wtc-7-size-skyscraper-building-does-not-collapse.html%22)
"NIST!!! You have some splainin to do!!!"
Perhaps one reason might have to do with the fact that this buildings main structural elements were made of reinforced concrete? Another reason may be that it was of a completely different design. It also likely met higher structural, earthquake and typhoon, design requirements. etc. etc. lol
Small discussion on Skyscraper page forums midway on this page.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=145254&page=56
Blow by blow, from the moment it started till now, discussion here.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=164817
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
Quote
There was also no concussive explosion like the tanks of two aircraft exploding over yonder. Or the shock waves from the collapse of two skyscrapers a hop-n-skip away.
OK you all keep talking about explosions and the tanks in the basement being part of the problem. If you are gonna support the official story at least know what it is.
This is from NIST (//%22http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/wtc_qa_082108.html%22)
Did the electrical substation next to WTC 7 play a role in the fires or collapse?
No. There is no evidence that the electric substation contributed to the fires in WTC 7.
Did fuel oil systems in WTC 7 contribute to its collapse?
No. The building had three separate emergency power systems, all of which ran on diesel fuel.
Why did WTC 7's sprinkler systems fail during the fires?
The sprinkler systems did not fail.
Would WTC 7 have collapsed even if there had been no structural damage induced by the collapse of the WTC towers?
Yes. Even without the structural damage, WTC 7 would have collapsed from the fires that the debris initiated.
Explain me this, Barry Jennings tells his story from inside WTC 7 BEFORE the collapse of the Twin Towers. Barry Jenning's Account of WTC 7 (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQY-ksiuwKU%22)
Barry Jennings was part of the office of emergency management (Guiliani's Emergency Bunker)
P.S. Barry is dead now, cause of death unknown
This is a little more broad but maybe NIST did not find any evidence of explosions because they did not look? 9/11 commission did not allow testimony of 503 first responders, so why would NIST explore this avenue?
25% of first responders claimed to hear or see explosions or bombs.
9/11 Commission Report bars 503 1st responder eyewitnesses (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqph02WuE9g%22)
EXPLOSIVE TESTIMONY! / MacQueen NYFD 9/11 witnesses (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT2dXqRscJQ%22)
I'll take that as a no.
The onus of proof is not on the person bringing forth the new proposition. I have a little teapot I could tell you about if you don't understand.
quote:
Originally posted by altruismsuffers
25% of first responders claimed to hear or see explosions or bombs.
Eyewitnesses are often wrong. IMO, a person's offhand observation is best used to corroborate physical evidence.
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by altruismsuffers
25% of first responders claimed to hear or see explosions or bombs.
Eyewitnesses are often wrong. IMO, a person's offhand observation is best used to corroborate physical evidence.
Take the suspected van involved in the Swenney murder for instance.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I'll take that as a no.
The onus of proof is not on the person bringing forth the new proposition. I have a little teapot I could tell you about if you don't understand.
I am bringing forth your evidence which actually takes time to comb through, watch and think about. Are you doing these things?
Add this to your list: Blueprint For Truth (//%22http://myexpandedmind.com/Movies/Blueprintfortruth.html%22)
Frankly, no. I'm not. The NIST, Popular Science, MIT, and the rest of the experts are enough for me. I applaud you for looking into it, but unless every major source of expertise in this area is in on it then there is no grand conspiracy. And frankly, I doubt that many people could be in on it without it coming ot light.
The basic question of WHY doesn't even work out. Faking 4 hijackings and destroying WTC1 and 2 wasn't enough to do whatever they wanted?
If it was a financial scam then was it Silverstein or the Port Authority that was in on it? The buildings weren't owned by the same people... adding ANOTHER level of complexity. it quickly grows too big to be a serious concern.
Bush as a criminal mastermind is another roll that is hard to cast.
The sniff test fails. The experts disagree. Not worth further discussion. Because a fringe group keeps saying it, doesn't make it so. Basically, you'll cling to anything and ignore anything if it helps your argument. You are not after the "truth," you are out to prove a conspiracy. Anything short of that is not acceptable.
(ever wonder why the same people generally believe in all the fringe ideas? Hint: logic says it's not because they are right on all these issues while everyone else is wrong.)
Altruismsuffers, I have not followed your threads closely and because I really don't understand your position on 9/11 I have a simple question for you. Without using links to make your point, can you briefly describe what you believe happened on 9/11? I would appreciate it if you would take the time to tell us what "you" have come to believe after hearing all of these different viewpoints.
Those were Chinese built scrapers, which are of much higher quality than the garbage we build in this country.
quote:
Originally posted by altruismsuffers
I have one question, how does WTC 7 fall from "Thermal Expansion", and this building burned outright and did not collapse?
Fire Consumes WTC 7 Size Skyscraper (//%22http://www.prisonplanet.com/fire-consumes-wtc-7-size-skyscraper-building-does-not-collapse.html%22)
"NIST!!! You have some splainin to do!!!"
[:)]
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Altruismsuffers, I have not followed your threads closely and because I really don't understand your position on 9/11 I have a simple question for you. Without using links to make your point, can you briefly describe what you believe happened on 9/11? I would appreciate it if you would take the time to tell us what "you" have come to believe after hearing all of these different viewpoints.
If you take a look throughout history false flag terror has been used to scare people into submission. Nero allowed Rome to burn, Hitler burned his own Reichtag, The USS Liberty was attacked by allied forces (Israel), The Lusitania, The Gulf of Tonkin, Pearl Harbor, and now 9/11.
If you take the time to study these past events you will see that many of them did not happen the way the "official" stories suggest. If you look at who stands to benefit in these circumstances and who had there hands in funding and profiting you will see many of the large banks had a large stake.
Now if you go and research the bankers who own 98% of the wealth on earth and what they intend to do with their power you will see that they very openly promote a "New World Order" that they would control. You can't just come out and tell people that you want to control them so you have to secretly and with subversion gain control and effect change "behind the curtain" if you will.
Why do you think that Bush (who is just a puppet) named Iraq, Iran, North Korea and Syria as the "Axis of Evil"? Well just so happened those were some of the only countries left that don't have a central bank, they are not directly controlled by the elitist banking cartel.
So now they are in the process of blowing out the dollar (yes they are intentionally destroying it, that's why 60 billion of it is missing and our officials DO NOTHING and Obama wants to burn through 800 Billion more) It is not just our economy in trouble, France, England and other major countries are doing the exact same bailout bull****. This is leveling the playing field, bringing everyone to their knees so they (bankers) can present the solution (Problem Reaction Solution) which is a new world or regional currency(North American Currency like the Euro).
Anyways the end goal is to have us all as slaves, chip and track us all and have complete power. The sad thing is most of the saps reading this wont believe it and happily except their fate.
Now of course I could link to quotes and documents but you asked for no links, so I leave it at that. Now I don't expect anyone to read this and go "oh yea, he is right!" Lets be real, you have to take an interest and actually study this stuff, study the history, study the banks, study the people, and be open minded to something very different then what you were taught in school.
Altruismsuffers, Thank you for responding to my question. I have to say that stranger things have happened that the scenario you outlined but I'm not inclined to agree with you. I'll tell you why.
The kind of conspiracy you are describing would involve the participation to a great many people. Based on my experience with human nature I would say that it would be impossible for that many people to keep a secret.
9/11 was the result of the Arab World hating the United States for its support of Israel and because of the U.S. presence in their Holy Land, Saudi Arabia.
For its part, the Bush Administration completely dropped the ball on National Security. And that Administration's overreaction to 9/11 was largely a matter of their sense of guilt for dropping the ball and an attempt to shift blame.
Now, I believe we probably shot down Flight 93 to protect Washington. If we didn't, then I'll say that we should have. I believe it would be possible to keep a limited number of U.S. Military personnel sworn to secrecy.
I would say that overall our greatest problem is not conspiracies. Our greater problem is a consensus of belief, among a majority of people, forming around wrong headed beliefs and ideas.
That educated folks here at TulsaNow dismiss any notion of conspiracy outright displays their lack of sophistication. But, it was a revelation for me to learn that everything I read in the newspaper or saw on TV was not truthful. I grew up in Tulsa and we want to believe in what we are told.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
That educated folks here at TulsaNow dismiss any notion of conspiracy outright displays their lack of sophistication.
No, we dismiss the notion of a conspiracy because of the lack of any credible evidence. That shows common sense, not a lack of sophistication.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Altruismsuffers, Thank you for responding to my question. I have to say that stranger things have happened that the scenario you outlined but I'm not inclined to agree with you. I'll tell you why.
The kind of conspiracy you are describing would involve the participation to a great many people. Based on my experience with human nature I would say that it would be impossible for that many people to keep a secret.
9/11 was the result of the Arab World hating the United States for its support of Israel and because of the U.S. presence in their Holy Land, Saudi Arabia.
For its part, the Bush Administration completely dropped the ball on National Security. And that Administration's overreaction to 9/11 was largely a matter of their sense of guilt for dropping the ball and an attempt to shift blame.
Now, I believe we probably shot down Flight 93 to protect Washington. If we didn't, then I'll say that we should have. I believe it would be possible to keep a limited number of U.S. Military personnel sworn to secrecy.
I would say that overall our greatest problem is not conspiracies. Our greater problem is a consensus of belief, among a majority of people, forming around wrong headed beliefs and ideas.
That educated folks here at TulsaNow dismiss any notion of conspiracy outright displays their lack of sophistication. But, it was a revelation for me to learn that everything I read in the newspaper or saw on TV was not truthful. I grew up in Tulsa and we want to believe in what we are told.
I am glad we can actually have a civil discussion no matter how far fetched some may think it seems. Thank you.
Now as for the secrecy, the problem is most people involved are either
1.) Unaware they are involved, like most people and don't believe in conspiracies and are just "following orders" (There were "training exercises" going on 9/11)
2.) Talking but nobody is listening because the media is owned and operated by 5 major corporations that pay them no attention.
3.) Dead or incapacitated
4.) Too scared to step out of line and speak, they know there place (IE. all of congress who give our money to banks that don't tell us a word of what they are doing with it)
"9/11 was the result of the Arab World hating the United States for its support of Israel and because of the U.S. presence in their Holy Land, Saudi Arabia." I agree that this was the excuse. The problem is that our American government tried to stifle an investigation. Then the families persisted, the government formed a committee with an insider like Kissinger as the head (he stepped down after the families expressed outrage) At the same time OUR GOVERNMENT is fighting an investigation they are playing "Snatch and Grab" with our civil liberties while everyone is terrified. Now they openly admit to have military brigades in the united states and are in the process of building FEMA camps on old military bases for the purpose of control during emergency situations or "civil unrest" Who is the real enemy here?
"Now, I believe we probably shot down Flight 93 to protect Washington." I agree, I think this was something the military did good, that was not supposed to happen. Rumsfeld says Flight 93 was shot down (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Xoxaf1Al0%22)
"I would say that overall our greatest problem is not conspiracies. Our greater problem is a consensus of belief, among a majority of people, forming around wrong headed beliefs and ideas." I agree again
"it was a revelation for me to learn that everything I read in the newspaper or saw on TV was not truthful."It was for me as well. My first "wake up" was in College. My professor asked us what we thought about the standoff at Waco. We gave the news scripted answers we all heard over and over again.
-David Koresh, crazy cult leader
-Fortified Compound
-Stocking illegal weapons and raping children
-They killed themselves rather then be captured
He wrote this all on the board then showed us a movie,
Waco: The Rules of Engagement (//%22http://myexpandedmind.com/Movies/WacoTheRulesofEngagement.html%22), it absolutely blew my mind. This movie provides hard evidence that the official story was extremely exaggerated if not an out right lie. From that day forward I began to rethink reality.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
That educated folks here at TulsaNow dismiss any notion of conspiracy outright displays their lack of sophistication.
No, we dismiss the notion of a conspiracy because of the lack of any credible evidence. That shows common sense, not a lack of sophistication.
Conspiracy Theory: a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful.
The Gulf of Tonkin is largely know as the event that led to escalation in Vietnam. This event never happened. People conspired to sell a fake story to escalate the war, this was a conspiracy, it is a fact. From the NSA declassified report (//%22http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/gulf_of_tonkin/articles/rel1_skunks_bogies.pdf%22)
"it is not simply that there is a different story as to what happened; it is that no attack happened that night.... In truth, Hanoi's navy was engaged in nothing that night but the salvage of two of the boats damaged on 2 August."
What satisfaction is there for you in carrying this message to the people here at TulsaNow? Let's say that five years from now we learn that certain elements of your claim are true. Do you think anyone here will have the memory or the character to step forward and say "I was wrong. That Altruismsuffers was right." That's probably never going to happen.
There is no satisfaction in being right. It's not fun to be razzed by the smoke-hole crowd because you believe in something out of the ordinary. Why submit yourself to the abuse?
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
What satisfaction is there for you in carrying this message to the people here at TulsaNow? Let's say that five years from now we learn that certain elements of your claim are true. Do you think anyone here will have the memory or the character to step forward and say "I was wrong. That Altruismsuffers was right." That's probably never going to happen.
There is no satisfaction in being right. It's not fun to be razzed by the smoke-hole crowd because you believe in something out of the ordinary. Why submit yourself to the abuse?
Ha ha, well I am sure to your surprise most of America are as clueless, so the responses I get on here are not much different then the ones I get face to face. As Martin Luther King said, "There comes a time when silence is betrayal". I share this message because I feel it is important and even if people don't soak it up now, it has entered their consciousness and will hopefully help them "wake up" in the future. I post on here in hopes that someone will study the things I say for themselves. People have these belief systems that have been molded over their entire lifetime and much of their information comes from public school, or the TV. This makes for a lifetime of brain washing (that is ongoing), and it takes time to dismantle someones entire false belief system. I mean their was truly a time in which if you claimed the earth was round you would be hanged! Just goes to show the power of "belief". Plus I get good practice defending what I believe which makes me dig a little more and understand the picture a little better.
quote:
Originally posted by altruismsuffers
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
What satisfaction is there for you in carrying this message to the people here at TulsaNow? Let's say that five years from now we learn that certain elements of your claim are true. Do you think anyone here will have the memory or the character to step forward and say "I was wrong. That Altruismsuffers was right." That's probably never going to happen.
There is no satisfaction in being right. It's not fun to be razzed by the smoke-hole crowd because you believe in something out of the ordinary. Why submit yourself to the abuse?
Ha ha, well I am sure to your surprise most of America are as clueless, so the responses I get on here are not much different then the ones I get face to face. As Martin Luther King said, "There comes a time when silence is betrayal". I share this message because I feel it is important and even if people don't soak it up now, it has entered their consciousness and will hopefully help them "wake up" in the future. I post on here in hopes that someone will study the things I say for themselves. People have these belief systems that have been molded over their entire lifetime and much of their information comes from public school, or the TV. This makes for a lifetime of brain washing (that is ongoing), and it takes time to dismantle someones entire false belief system. I mean their was truly a time in which if you claimed the earth was round you would be hanged! Just goes to show the power of "belief". Plus I get good practice defending what I believe which makes me dig a little more and understand the picture a little better.
So you hear voices, interesing.
quote:
Originally posted by altruismsuffers
Ha ha, well I am sure to your surprise most of America are as clueless, so the responses I get on here are not much different then the ones I get face to face. As Martin Luther King said, "There comes a time when silence is betrayal". I share this message because I feel it is important and even if people don't soak it up now, it has entered their consciousness and will hopefully help them "wake up" in the future. I post on here in hopes that someone will study the things I say for themselves. People have these belief systems that have been molded over their entire lifetime and much of their information comes from public school, or the TV. This makes for a lifetime of brain washing (that is ongoing), and it takes time to dismantle someones entire false belief system. I mean their was truly a time in which if you claimed the earth was round you would be hanged! Just goes to show the power of "belief". Plus I get good practice defending what I believe which makes me dig a little more and understand the picture a little better.
Well, if your highly dubious thesis is ever proven, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.
In the meantime, I'll just have to regard you as having delusions or simply being gullible.
Thermite, thermate, or just militant, rebel, terrorist termites?
Where's IPlaw when you need him?
FYI Alt, drop the animated, annoying and stomach-sickening avatar and you might gain a little more credibility. No wonder everyone thinks you are a sixth-grader at Coweta.
That looks like a forum built-in avatar, for what it's worth.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
That looks like a forum built-in avatar, for what it's worth.
I don't care what it is, it makes me dizzy.[xx(]
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
Thermite, thermate, or just militant, rebel, terrorist termites?
Where's IPlaw when you need him?
See he is one dude that insisted on having the last word on every topic, driving away how many people who knows, and then POOF no more 'iplaw.' Check under a rock!
I will feed into the WTC7 conspiracy in the following manner: if Parties Unknown were aware that the Planes Operation was going down in September - and apparently everyone and his/her brother knew - and that it was going to be a martyrdom op (fewer people KNEW but many suspected) than the possibility remains that Parties Unknown used the demolition of WTC7 to conceal the theft of . . . what? What was in play at WTC7?
Well WTC 7 housed some very important players like the CIA, IRS, SEC, Secret Service, and the DOD... oh and it happened to house all the evidence about the Enron scandel which magically vanished when WTC 7 collapsed. I don't think they just blew it up for the hell of it. I think that the plan went wrong, a plane was supposed to hit it or they thought that the Twin Towers falling would have had a bigger impact. Whatever happened they were stuck with it loaded and ready to go, so they had to get rid of it. This is of course why they got rid of every single piece of evidence after the fact as well.
No doubt the Trilateral Commission had an office there too. Maybe next to the unofficial office of Level 33 Masons too.
This is getting good.
quote:
Originally posted by altruismsuffers
I think that the plan went wrong, a plane was supposed to hit it or they thought that the Twin Towers falling would have had a bigger impact. Whatever happened they were stuck with it loaded and ready to go, so they had to get rid of it. This is of course why they got rid of every single piece of evidence after the fact as well.
By no means was it a foregone conclusion that WTC1 and 2 would actually collapse. Had WTC2 been hit dead on or higher up, it's likely neither building would have collapsed.
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by altruismsuffers
I think that the plan went wrong, a plane was supposed to hit it or they thought that the Twin Towers falling would have had a bigger impact. Whatever happened they were stuck with it loaded and ready to go, so they had to get rid of it. This is of course why they got rid of every single piece of evidence after the fact as well.
By no means was it a foregone conclusion that WTC1 and 2 would actually collapse. Had WTC2 been hit dead on or higher up, it's likely neither building would have collapsed.
Dude you totally are missing the point of this post. The buildings were rigged. It was a big magic trick/slight of hand. The planes did not bring down the buildings, the explosions that followed did.
You Have Been "Spicolied!"
Anyone who tries to make a point by opening a post with the work "Dude" deserves the coveted Spicoli award.
(http://barfblog.foodsafety.ksu.edu/uploads/image/spicoli.jpg)
Poor guy is about to cry
quote:
Originally posted by altruismsuffers
Dude you totally are missing the point of this post. The buildings were rigged. It was a big magic trick/slight of hand. The planes did not bring down the buildings, the explosions that followed did.
Yep. Engineers rigged the buildings, and GW got the Pentagon, United Airlines, American Airlines and FAA, the Port Authority, the pretend victims, fake terrorists, forged phone calls (relocated to witness protection), the soldiers who actually carried out the missions, the master lease holders of the buildings, several foreign governments, the CIA, NSA, and FBI, as well as scores of ancillary players including demolition engineers, maintenance men of the towers, building security and hundreds of other people to go along with it... so they could profit. THEN, they got the media to fake all sorts of stories on it, convinced several noted technical journals, the global engineering and architectural community and 95% of eye witnesses to go along with the story. It was only the most massive scheme EVER by the most competent national leader the world has ever known.
Oldest trick in the book:
Step 1) Massive Conspiracy to blow up buildings
Step 2) ?
Step 3) Profit.
Now. We technically it cost us tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars and more than ten thousand lives. But it the motivation is clear - profit. And all the pieces are in place!
Damn corporations (except the majority of them, who lost billions of dollars).
AGAIN, I ask you - would anything ever convince you that any notion of a conspiracy related to any matter for which you hold a conspiracy theory EVER cause you to change that belief? I think not. So why bother?
So yep. The George Bush pulled off the most massive and greatest conspiracy ever. Either just to screw with the Clinton's or for profit.
Now lets move on to things in the real world.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
Originally posted by altruismsuffers
Dude you totally are missing the point of this post. The buildings were rigged. It was a big magic trick/slight of hand. The planes did not bring down the buildings, the explosions that followed did.
Yep. Engineers rigged the buildings, and GW got the Pentagon, United Airlines, American Airlines and FAA, the Port Authority, the pretend victims, fake terrorists, forged phone calls (relocated to witness protection), the soldiers who actually carried out the missions, the master lease holders of the buildings, several foreign governments, the CIA, NSA, and FBI, as well as scores of ancillary players including demolition engineers, maintenance men of the towers, building security and hundreds of other people to go along with it... so they could profit. THEN, they got the media to fake all sorts of stories on it, convinced several noted technical journals, the global engineering and architectural community and 95% of eye witnesses to go along with the story. It was only the most massive scheme EVER by the most competent national leader the world has ever known.
You are FINALLY getting it.
/slinking away from my hookah pipe.