Let's post them here...yesterday I was shocked to find 4 police offers pulling people over in one area that is nothing but underpass. It seems to me they have found a "money pit" and are taking advantage of it. There is no safety reason for them to be there, there is no school around it, there are few houses but all working class so no one is ever home in the morning and they are always there when people are going to work in the mornings.
People coming north/east down the hill have to slow down from 35 to 25 and hold the brake or they will coast back down to 35 in short time, that's when the police bust them. I have a few times forgotten as I started down the hill but luckily remember as low and behold..there they were waiting!
At times they will have one spotter on a bike at the top, one-three at the bottom pulling them over. Had them lined up.
Here is a Google link to the site with street view. I also have a picture of the cops lined up but have to figure out how to upload it somewhere and post it. They kinda looked at me funny when I snapped the pic of them sitting there all in a row. I would be curious to see if anyone could find out how much money is drawn from this street.
Link to Map (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=E+33rd+Ct,+Tulsa,+OK+74146&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=31.784549,56.601563&ie=UTF8&ll=36.11602,-95.912061&spn=0.001976,0.003455&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=36.116291,-95.912166&panoid=UvkGZTTizomidBn8mJ1hDw&cbp=12,165.1157296918235,,0,9.335252067298763%22)
View coming down hill (//%22http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=E+33rd+Ct,+Tulsa,+OK+74146&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=31.784549,56.601563&ie=UTF8&t=h&layer=c&cbll=36.114451,-95.913212&panoid=OltAF9p3oI0TfTY29JlGSQ&cbp=12,383.6271252758344,,0,2.677543535375663&ll=36.114529,-95.913166&spn=0.001976,0.003455&z=18&iwloc=addr%22)
Ya this has been going on for about 4 years now....I know people that work at DTAG and they know at least 10 people who have gotten tickets 1-2 times over the last 3-4 years...crazy
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles
Ya this has been going on for about 4 years now....I know people that work at DTAG and they know at least 10 people who have gotten tickets 1-2 times over the last 3-4 years...crazy
Yep, I'm a DTAG employee and that speed trap is very well known to all of us.
quote:
Originally posted by kylieosu
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles
Ya this has been going on for about 4 years now....I know people that work at DTAG and they know at least 10 people who have gotten tickets 1-2 times over the last 3-4 years...crazy
Yep, I'm a DTAG employee and that speed trap is very well known to all of us.
It took me a minute to figure out DTAG which brings me to a question about those three buildings. I know the eastern most was a bank and KMOD was in there until they discovered asbestos in the building. The question is about the two multi story buildings. One of them had a restaraunt in it back in the late 80's called the Finish Line. It was owned by the same person that owned The Starting Gate when it was next to Saied Music. He then went on and bought the old Charley and Barney's in the Williams Center Forum and turned it into the Red Pepper Chili Grill, which then moved to the building on the SEC of 4th and Cheyene. Sorry long winded, but is there still a restaraunt in one of thos two builngs where DTAG is? I think it was in the east tower on the first floor facing the BA Expressway.
quote:
Originally posted by dbacks fan
quote:
Originally posted by kylieosu
quote:
Originally posted by zstyles
Ya this has been going on for about 4 years now....I know people that work at DTAG and they know at least 10 people who have gotten tickets 1-2 times over the last 3-4 years...crazy
Yep, I'm a DTAG employee and that speed trap is very well known to all of us.
It took me a minute to figure out DTAG which brings me to a question about those three buildings. I know the eastern most was a bank and KMOD was in there until they discovered asbestos in the building. The question is about the two multi story buildings. One of them had a restaraunt in it back in the late 80's called the Finish Line. It was owned by the same person that owned The Starting Gate when it was next to Saied Music. He then went on and bought the old Charley and Barney's in the Williams Center Forum and turned it into the Red Pepper Chili Grill, which then moved to the building on the SEC of 4th and Cheyene. Sorry long winded, but is there still a restaraunt in one of thos two builngs where DTAG is? I think it was in the east tower on the first floor facing the BA Expressway.
Yes, there is actually a Subway franchise currently occupying that space....wish it was still an actual local restaurant instead of a chain with a million other locations...but what can you do? :)
Thanks kylie. BOT that area has been a speed trap since they opened Southroads Mall in the late 60's. It was a great shortcut from 31st and Sheridan to get to the malls without dealing with 41st and Yale or 41st and Sheridan. Also it was the same south of 41st in the area behind where Childrens Med was for the same reason, You could get to Southland without dealing with the major intersections.
Big time speed trap is on Yale between 71st & 81st. Cops shoot radar from an access road of cars traveling south from 81st street after coming up that hill. You vehicle is of course still accelerating at the crest of that hill, so it's a perfect spot to screw the "working people" going to work (Yes, I am excluding myself as a working person).
244 between 75 and 44 tends to be popular.
I see them North of the 44 overpass quite a bit. Not sure if I'd call it a trap but it's effective considering the number of people I've seen detained on the side of the road.
Sheridan and 65th is popular.
They like to get you as you crest Shadow Mountain and gain speed down the hill heading for 71st.
Also, getting off the Turner turnpike onto 35 South in OKC. Those troopers are always sitting under the overpasses waiting because of the speed reduction.
I just saw today that they've turned the I-44 & Riverside construction into a speed trap. It is still 40mph going through, as there is no work being done on Riverside itself. Going south on Riverside, where the left turn that would have taken you to west Tulsa before they closed it, a police car sat between the construction barrels tagging people while an unmarked car pulled them over. They were taking advantage of having a neat place to park, somewhat obstructed, thanks to the construction.
Define 'speed trap'.
And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?
Lets pick:
1. Tough beans.
2. Move.
3. Got better things to do.
4. Hope your kids don't get run over.
It's a residential street. What kind of speed limit would you like?
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED! It's simple and saves lives. What a concept!
And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above. And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35. The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record. So, 40 through a residential is too slow. You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Define 'speed trap'.
And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?
Lets pick:
1. Tough beans.
2. Move.
3. Got better things to do.
4. Hope your kids don't get run over.
It's a residential street. What kind of speed limit would you like?
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED! It's simple and saves lives. What a concept!
And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above. And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35. The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record. So, 40 through a residential is too slow. You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.
I agree Wilbur.
If in Tulsa they gave tickets for tailgating, and "Failure to Obey the Basic Speed Law" you would really hear them scream.
However, in California, these two items have saved an untold number of lives.[B)]
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED!
Such a simplistic view would have traction if the, um, "enhanced enforcement efforts" werent strategically placed where the physics of the terrain precipitate transient spikes in the speed of otherwise law-abiding drivers.
Nailing someone disregarding the law on even ground is one thing, but metering people at the bottom of a hill is disingenuous and calculated.
It's pretty well proven that speeding tickets don't actually do any good. It does just as much good to post a single unit in a problem area to sit there and look pretty and make people's radar detectors go off.
Most folks slow down when they see an officer. The ones that fail to correct their speed should be ticketed.
Posting four officers in one location doesn't do much good.
The real solution is to narrow the roadway such that people don't want to speed.
Of course, here in Tulsa, we can't think outside the box like that, so we ticket and install speed bumps. They're both useless, but speed bumps are also dangerous and cause noise and pollution in the neighborhood.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Define 'speed trap'.
And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?
Lets pick:
1. Tough beans.
2. Move.
3. Got better things to do.
4. Hope your kids don't get run over.
It's a residential street. What kind of speed limit would you like?
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED! It's simple and saves lives. What a concept!
And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above. And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35. The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record. So, 40 through a residential is too slow. You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.
EVERY speeding ticket goes on your driving record, regardless of if it's 2 miles over or 25. The difference is that insurance companies get different kinds of driving records than other, say, trucking companies do. So what a police officer is doing if he reduces it to 9 over the limit or less, is keeping your insurance company from seeing it on your record to keep your rates down, because they get restricted records.
quote:
Originally posted by patric
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED!
Such a simplistic view would have traction if the, um, "enhanced enforcement efforts" werent strategically placed where the physics of the terrain precipitate transient spikes in the speed of otherwise law-abiding drivers.
Nailing someone disregarding the law on even ground is one thing, but metering people at the bottom of a hill is disingenuous and calculated.
Perhaps it is calculated to force drivers to be aware of their speed at all times. I got ticketed at 65th and Sheridan and it wasn't for any 10 over. I earned every bit of it and it was an eye opener for me. I started paying more attention to my speed and was surprised to realize how fast I was going just in general. I'm more conscious of it now and have tried to change my habits.
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
It's pretty well proven that speeding tickets don't actually do any good. It does just as much good to post a single unit in a problem area to sit there and look pretty and make people's radar detectors go off.
Most folks slow down when they see an officer. The ones that fail to correct their speed should be ticketed.
Posting four officers in one location doesn't do much good.
The real solution is to narrow the roadway such that people don't want to speed.
Of course, here in Tulsa, we can't think outside the box like that, so we ticket and install speed bumps. They're both useless, but speed bumps are also dangerous and cause noise and pollution in the neighborhood.
Streets, roads and highways have to meet federal engineering standards. Tulsa complies with the ANSI standards.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Define 'speed trap'.
And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?
Lets pick:
1. Tough beans.
2. Move.
3. Got better things to do.
4. Hope your kids don't get run over.
It's a residential street. What kind of speed limit would you like?
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED! It's simple and saves lives. What a concept!
And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above. And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35. The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record. So, 40 through a residential is too slow. You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.
EVERY speeding ticket goes on your driving record, regardless of if it's 2 miles over or 25. The difference is that insurance companies get different kinds of driving records than other, say, trucking companies do. So what a police officer is doing if he reduces it to 9 over the limit or less, is keeping your insurance company from seeing it on your record to keep your rates down, because they get restricted records.
Sorry, but that is incorrect. Municipal courts from across the state do not send the conviction information to the state, thus the state never finds out about it, thus the conviction never goes on your driving record. SP8 and SP9 violations are not reported.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Define 'speed trap'.
And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?
Lets pick:
1. Tough beans.
2. Move.
3. Got better things to do.
4. Hope your kids don't get run over.
It's a residential street. What kind of speed limit would you like?
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED! It's simple and saves lives. What a concept!
And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above. And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35. The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record. So, 40 through a residential is too slow. You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.
EVERY speeding ticket goes on your driving record, regardless of if it's 2 miles over or 25. The difference is that insurance companies get different kinds of driving records than other, say, trucking companies do. So what a police officer is doing if he reduces it to 9 over the limit or less, is keeping your insurance company from seeing it on your record to keep your rates down, because they get restricted records.
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. I have received a few speeding tickets over the years and can tell you first hand, not all of them show up on your driving record. If you don't believe me, the next time you get pulled over, have the officer pull up your driving record and compare it to your driving record the DMV can pull. I can guarantee you, it will be differ. The DMV only goes back 5 yrs and DOES NOT list every ticket in that 5 years. I don't know the exact rules or parameters, but they are not all listed. I don't know where you got your information from, but it is incorrect.
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
It's pretty well proven that speeding tickets don't actually do any good. It does just as much good to post a single unit in a problem area to sit there and look pretty and make people's radar detectors go off.
Most folks slow down when they see an officer. The ones that fail to correct their speed should be ticketed.
Posting four officers in one location doesn't do much good.
The real solution is to narrow the roadway such that people don't want to speed.
Of course, here in Tulsa, we can't think outside the box like that, so we ticket and install speed bumps. They're both useless, but speed bumps are also dangerous and cause noise and pollution in the neighborhood.
Good Lord, I hope you never become a "leader" in our great city. Your solution to people speeding is to narrow the roads? Narrow what roads? Do you know how many 2 lane roads we still have in this city that need to be widened?
"Speed Traps" might not work for some, but it will for others and it will make them more conscience of their overall speed in general. But it's a natural reaction to slow down in areas you know the cops have targeted before, is it not?
If you know there is a chance that cops are going to be in that area, because they have worked it before, chances are you going to slow down. Thus, they have done their job...they have made you think about how fast you are going and more then likely be more attentive.
They only work the areas where people are hauling donkey. You think they are going to work an area where people are going the speed limit?
But since you guys are compiling a list here area a few..
-55th and Yale. They usually hide out in the La Fortune parking lot by the stop light.
-Memorial between Pine and Admiral. Usually sit on one of the side roads and get people headed southbound towards Admiral.
Airport Rd. When leaving the airport and coming up to the stoplight to get on 11E, they will sit in the Radisson parking lot. I have watched them get over 20 cars in a matter of 45 minutes. Usually 2 work this area because the "kids" that go to Spartan drive like they are still in HS and just got their license.
OHP has been working the Creek Turnpike from 75 to 169 pretty heavily lately.
quote:
Originally posted by patric
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED!
Nailing someone disregarding the law on even ground is one thing, but metering people at the bottom of a hill is disingenuous and calculated.
EXACTLY....
Since last summer, it seems like every time I drive on Riverside near the Creek nation casino/lung destruction room I see someone pulled over.
About once a month there is a speed trap with motorcycles set up on the BA near downtown -- between the exit to 75 and the Denver/Cheyenne Exit.
My pet peeve is when there is someone with a radar gun near Cohlmia's (s/p) on 15th, just west over the overpass. That's a pretty steep hill and if there's traffic, you could get caught going 10 mph over pretty easily if you have to maneuver for any reason. Yes, I was stopped there once.[:(!]
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
It's pretty well proven that speeding tickets don't actually do any good. It does just as much good to post a single unit in a problem area to sit there and look pretty and make people's radar detectors go off.
Most folks slow down when they see an officer. The ones that fail to correct their speed should be ticketed.
Posting four officers in one location doesn't do much good.
The real solution is to narrow the roadway such that people don't want to speed.
Of course, here in Tulsa, we can't think outside the box like that, so we ticket and install speed bumps. They're both useless, but speed bumps are also dangerous and cause noise and pollution in the neighborhood.
Perhaps this is just anecdotal, but I have found them to be very effective. When I was younger I got a lot of speeding tickets, and I finally decided it was getting too expensive and slowed down.
So, for me, they had their desired effect.
and "Nailing someone disregarding the law on even ground is one thing, but metering people at the bottom of a hill is disingenuous and calculated. "
I agree. I have been caught in a speed trap this way at least twice. I wasn't deliberately breaking the law. I feel their time would have been better used stopping people running red lights and tailgaiting.
There is also a big speed trap on western parts of 71st. Meanwhile the crime rate skyrockets. I guess with the bad economy cities are hurting for money and they turn to speed traps. Many other cities are installing red light cameras and shorting the yellow light to catch more people and when a camera is installed the accident rate goes up at that intersection I understand.. Phoenix, AZ. has tons of Red-light cameras. The newest thing is getting to be speeding cameras, the state of Illinois is getting into that big time. The camera takes your picture and mails you a speeding ticket, and you get a surprise in the mail. I don't know if the camera's allow for any tolerance, but I heard stories that they give tickets if you go 2mph over the limit. Illnois had speed cameras on parts of I-74 in construction zones. I expect that speed cameras will find their way to more & more cities and states.
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
QuoteOriginally posted by nathanm
Airport Rd. When leaving the airport and coming up to the stoplight to get on 11E, they will sit in the Radisson parking lot. I have watched them get over 20 cars in a matter of 45 minutes. Usually 2 work this area because the "kids" that go to Spartan drive like they are still in HS and just got their license.
i did not know this, but I will say it is pretty scummy and being a bad host to stake out around airports and bust visitors (as well as locals). I see them bust people out by DIA a lot when I'm in Denver and I think its poor form.
OP.. I LOVED that little "secret" road back in the day when I lived over @ 31st and Sheridan.
Was always fun negotiating the traffic circle :)
What TPD really needs to do is enforce people who stop the normal flow of traffic on the highways... ie people who hang out in the left lane and refuse to get over.
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
Good Lord, I hope you never become a "leader" in our great city. Your solution to people speeding is to narrow the roads? Narrow what roads? Do you know how many 2 lane roads we still have in this city that need to be widened?
"Speed Traps" might not work for some, but it will for others and it will make them more conscience of their overall speed in general. But it's a natural reaction to slow down in areas you know the cops have targeted before, is it not?
Good lord I hope you learn to think based on reason rather than emotion. There are studies on this subject. Look them up.
Nobody is talking about reducing lane count. Narrowing can take many forms. On arterials, allowing parallel parking in the right lane is a good one. Basically, if you restrict the lane width, people become less comfortable with driving at too high a speed.
Having pedestrians around also slows most drivers down.
You can already see this unintentionally in areas of town where the four lane arterials have very narrow lanes. Not many people are comfortable driving 45 in a 40 on them. Personally, I'm hardly comfortable driving 40 in traffic on those roads.
Then you see folks burning down Memorial south of 71st at 50 mph and faster, because the road is practically built like a highway.
Redesigning the road causes a permanent change in habit on that section of road. Speed traps have at best a transient effect on traffic speed.
We should be ticketing people for actual unsafe driving (tailgating, red light running, that sort of thing). There's no way to design a road to keep people from doing that. (aside from making sure stoplights are timed correctly to reduce red light violations..no short yellows..that sort of thing)
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
There is also a big speed trap on western parts of 71st. Meanwhile the crime rate skyrockets. I guess with the bad economy cities are hurting for money and they turn to speed traps. Many other cities are installing red light cameras and shorting the yellow light to catch more people and when a camera is installed the accident rate goes up at that intersection I understand.. Phoenix, AZ. has tons of Red-light cameras. The newest thing is getting to be speeding cameras, the state of Illinois is getting into that big time. The camera takes your picture and mails you a speeding ticket, and you get a surprise in the mail. I don't know if the camera's allow for any tolerance, but I heard stories that they give tickets if you go 2mph over the limit. Illnois had speed cameras on parts of I-74 in construction zones. I expect that speed cameras will find their way to more & more cities and states.
The redlight cameras I have no problem with. But the speed cameras (//%22http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/134428%22) I do have a issue with. This article also reveals that they stream live video around the clock. You will also see in the article that the State House of Reps. have passed a bill to have them removed.
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
Then you see folks burning down Memorial south of 71st at 50 mph and faster, because the road is practically built like a highway.
It wasn't ALMOST built like a highway, it WAS a highway - US 64 until 169 down to the Creek loop was completed. I don't remember if the speed limit was higher back then though, because it was still in a somewhat populated area. It is 45 in some spots and 50 in some spots, so people going 50mph isn't exactly insane.
I think one of the main causes of speeding (aside from lack of self control, I know) is the bad traffic planning. People try to make up for lost time when they get caught in poorly timed traffic lights, poorly designed flow, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
QuoteOriginally posted by nathanm
Airport Rd. When leaving the airport and coming up to the stoplight to get on 11E, they will sit in the Radisson parking lot. I have watched them get over 20 cars in a matter of 45 minutes. Usually 2 work this area because the "kids" that go to Spartan drive like they are still in HS and just got their license.
i did not know this, but I will say it is pretty scummy and being a bad host to stake out around airports and bust visitors (as well as locals). I see them bust people out by DIA a lot when I'm in Denver and I think its poor form.
I agree it looks absurd to our out of town visitors...but the speed limit is 25mph around the airport, and you people constantly are doing 45+mph coming off hwy 11W. I have a tendency to drive fast, but some of these people are taking it a little too far.
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
Good Lord, I hope you never become a "leader" in our great city. Your solution to people speeding is to narrow the roads? Narrow what roads? Do you know how many 2 lane roads we still have in this city that need to be widened?
"Speed Traps" might not work for some, but it will for others and it will make them more conscience of their overall speed in general. But it's a natural reaction to slow down in areas you know the cops have targeted before, is it not?
Good lord I hope you learn to think based on reason rather than emotion. There are studies on this subject. Look them up.
Nobody is talking about reducing lane count. Narrowing can take many forms. On arterials, allowing parallel parking in the right lane is a good one. Basically, if you restrict the lane width, people become less comfortable with driving at too high a speed.
Having pedestrians around also slows most drivers down.
You can already see this unintentionally in areas of town where the four lane arterials have very narrow lanes. Not many people are comfortable driving 45 in a 40 on them. Personally, I'm hardly comfortable driving 40 in traffic on those roads.
Then you see folks burning down Memorial south of 71st at 50 mph and faster, because the road is practically built like a highway.
Redesigning the road causes a permanent change in habit on that section of road. Speed traps have at best a transient effect on traffic speed.
We should be ticketing people for actual unsafe driving (tailgating, red light running, that sort of thing). There's no way to design a road to keep people from doing that. (aside from making sure stoplights are timed correctly to reduce red light violations..no short yellows..that sort of thing)
Go drive down lewis between 15th and 41st, and tell me your theory works or down Peoria between 61st and 51st. Whats the old saying..don't do the crime, if you can't do the time? If you can't afford or aren't willing to pay a speeding ticket, THEN DON'T SPEED!! It's as simple as that. Last time I checked, we did not have speed limits posted at the bottom of hills for "hill only speed".
quote:
Originally posted by YoungTulsan
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
Then you see folks burning down Memorial south of 71st at 50 mph and faster, because the road is practically built like a highway.
It wasn't ALMOST built like a highway, it WAS a highway - US 64 until 169 down to the Creek loop was completed. I don't remember if the speed limit was higher back then though, because it was still in a somewhat populated area. It is 45 in some spots and 50 in some spots, so people going 50mph isn't exactly insane.
I think one of the main causes of speeding (aside from lack of self control, I know) is the bad traffic planning. People try to make up for lost time when they get caught in poorly timed traffic lights, poorly designed flow, etc.
It's 40 for the first half mile south of 71st, then 45 until south of 101st. People regularly drive 55. (hence my '50 mph or faster')
More than anything, people speed because they always drive at whatever speed they feel comfortable driving at on a particular road. That's why speed limits are essentially useless at controlling speed for all but the boy scout contingent and enforcement has only a transient effect.
And red light cameras? They dramatically increase the incidence of rear end crashes at intersections so equipped because people slam on their brakes for the yellow so as to avoid any chance of still being in the intersection when the light goes red. The cure ends up being more dangerous than the problem it seeks to solve. Very few people have the intestinal fortitude to drive through a light so late that there's a significant danger of a crash. Of course, here in Tulsa there are many intersections where there is no delay between one direction turning red and the other turning green. That needs to be fixed. (I've seen a few where the green light activates so quickly it looks almost as if the green comes on a tenth of a second before the red)
A police officer, unlike a machine, is capable of judging whether someone continuing through a yellow light is doing so because it would have been unsafe to stop or because they are just one of those asses who can't be bothered to stop.
On the bright side, there doesn't seem to be all that much blatant red light running here in Tulsa. I'm still surprised when I see someone blow through a light several seconds after the light turned red.
There are other cities where that behavior doesn't surprise me at all.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/AZWarner.jpg)
This is how most of the redlights are set up in the Phoenix area.This one is the intersection of Arizona Avenue and Warner Road in Chandler, AZ. The rectangle is the actual sensor for the camera and the two circles are the equipment. If you are in the intersection, passed the sensor, and the light turns from yellow to red it will not record that as running a red light. If you go over the sensor after the light has turned red it records it as a violation and they send you a $245.00 ticket in the mail. The redlight cameras have been here so long that every one knows how to deal with them, but still the get people all the time usually not paying attention.
quote:
Originally posted by dbacks fan
If you are in the intersection, passed the sensor, and the light turns from yellow to red it will not record that as running a red light.
While that is how the cameras actually function, that isn't how drivers react to them.
One study I came across in a quick search indicates that red light cameras reduce injury causing non-rear end crashes by about 15 percent, but increase injury causing rear end crashes by almost 25 percent.
Where they do create a beneficial effect is in the reduction in damage only crashes, but I personally am not OK with trading non injury crashes for injury crashes.
quote:
Originally posted by dbacks fan
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
There is also a big speed trap on western parts of 71st. Meanwhile the crime rate skyrockets. I guess with the bad economy cities are hurting for money and they turn to speed traps. Many other cities are installing red light cameras and shorting the yellow light to catch more people and when a camera is installed the accident rate goes up at that intersection I understand.. Phoenix, AZ. has tons of Red-light cameras. The newest thing is getting to be speeding cameras, the state of Illinois is getting into that big time. The camera takes your picture and mails you a speeding ticket, and you get a surprise in the mail. I don't know if the camera's allow for any tolerance, but I heard stories that they give tickets if you go 2mph over the limit. Illnois had speed cameras on parts of I-74 in construction zones. I expect that speed cameras will find their way to more & more cities and states.
The redlight cameras I have no problem with. But the speed cameras (//%22http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/134428%22) I do have a issue with. This article also reveals that they stream live video around the clock. You will also see in the article that the State House of Reps. have passed a bill to have them removed.
Camera tickets of any kind are not permitted by Oklahoma law, except for the turnpikes, but the turnpikes are considered 'private roads' so not sure how they get to do that.
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Define 'speed trap'.
And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?
Lets pick:
1. Tough beans.
2. Move.
3. Got better things to do.
4. Hope your kids don't get run over.
It's a residential street. What kind of speed limit would you like?
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED! It's simple and saves lives. What a concept!
And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above. And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35. The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record. So, 40 through a residential is too slow. You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.
EVERY speeding ticket goes on your driving record, regardless of if it's 2 miles over or 25. The difference is that insurance companies get different kinds of driving records than other, say, trucking companies do. So what a police officer is doing if he reduces it to 9 over the limit or less, is keeping your insurance company from seeing it on your record to keep your rates down, because they get restricted records.
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. I have received a few speeding tickets over the years and can tell you first hand, not all of them show up on your driving record. If you don't believe me, the next time you get pulled over, have the officer pull up your driving record and compare it to your driving record the DMV can pull. I can guarantee you, it will be differ. The DMV only goes back 5 yrs and DOES NOT list every ticket in that 5 years. I don't know the exact rules or parameters, but they are not all listed. I don't know where you got your information from, but it is incorrect.
I'm sorry, but that is not right either. Tickets DO NOT come off your driving record. I have seen many a records go back into the 1970's.
And, you may call Municipal Court and they will tell you they DO NOT report speeding tickets within 10 mph over the speed limit (there are a few exceptions: school zones, and anyone with a commercial driver license or driving a commercial vehicle, but that was a recent change).
If you get a speeding ticket within 10 miles per hour from a non-municipal police officer, those do not qualify for SP8 and DO go on your driving record.
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
If you can't afford or aren't willing to pay a speeding ticket, THEN DON'T SPEED!! It's as simple as that. Last time I checked, we did not have speed limits posted at the bottom of hills for "hill only speed".
Can you say that you have never caught yourself inadvertently over the speed limit?
Someday you will, and there will be someone or some thing strategically placed there to cash in on it.
quote:
Go drive down lewis between 15th and 41st, and tell me your theory works or down Peoria between 61st and 51st. Whats the old saying..don't do the crime, if you can't do the time? If you can't afford or aren't willing to pay a speeding ticket, THEN DON'T SPEED!! It's as simple as that. Last time I checked, we did not have speed limits posted at the bottom of hills for "hill only speed".
Ok, if you go too fast down those parts of Lewis or Peoria, you won't have to worry about Tickets because they will be far less than the bill from the alignment shop for repairing your suspension.
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Define 'speed trap'.
And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?
Lets pick:
1. Tough beans.
2. Move.
3. Got better things to do.
4. Hope your kids don't get run over.
It's a residential street. What kind of speed limit would you like?
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED! It's simple and saves lives. What a concept!
And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above. And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35. The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record. So, 40 through a residential is too slow. You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.
EVERY speeding ticket goes on your driving record, regardless of if it's 2 miles over or 25. The difference is that insurance companies get different kinds of driving records than other, say, trucking companies do. So what a police officer is doing if he reduces it to 9 over the limit or less, is keeping your insurance company from seeing it on your record to keep your rates down, because they get restricted records.
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. I have received a few speeding tickets over the years and can tell you first hand, not all of them show up on your driving record. If you don't believe me, the next time you get pulled over, have the officer pull up your driving record and compare it to your driving record the DMV can pull. I can guarantee you, it will be differ. The DMV only goes back 5 yrs and DOES NOT list every ticket in that 5 years. I don't know the exact rules or parameters, but they are not all listed. I don't know where you got your information from, but it is incorrect.
I'm sorry, but that is not right either. Tickets DO NOT come off your driving record. I have seen many a records go back into the 1970's.
And, you may call Municipal Court and they will tell you they DO NOT report speeding tickets within 10 mph over the speed limit (there are a few exceptions: school zones, and anyone with a commercial driver license or driving a commercial vehicle, but that was a recent change).
If you get a speeding ticket within 10 miles per hour from a non-municipal police officer, those do not qualify for SP8 and DO go on your driving record.
Where did I say they come off your record? I didn't. I simply said what any OHP or municipal police officer can pull up will differ from what your driving record will show from the Tag office. I never said it will drop off, some things get reported while others don't. I am agreeing with you here.
On the BA right after the entrance to Highway 75 and before the exit to Detroit. They sit underneath the Peoria overpass like clockwork.
They also do this, to a lesser extent yet often, on 15th Street between Peoria Ave. and Boston Ave...which is why I take issue with it.
It's the same steep downward hill and adds about 10-15mph to your speed. Instead of posting more signs warning drivers of this (better policy, safer for drivers) they just set up speed traps.
I've never been pulled over here, but it's still stupid nonetheless.
quote:
Originally posted by patric
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
If you can't afford or aren't willing to pay a speeding ticket, THEN DON'T SPEED!! It's as simple as that. Last time I checked, we did not have speed limits posted at the bottom of hills for "hill only speed".
Can you say that you have never caught yourself inadvertently over the speed limit?
Someday you will, and there will be someone or some thing strategically placed there to cash in on it.
No I sure can't. But I can say I know where the cops hide out, and when I am in that area, I am more "alert" and watch my speed. I have always had a lead foot, and tend to drive fast wherever I go.
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Define 'speed trap'.
And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?
Lets pick:
1. Tough beans.
2. Move.
3. Got better things to do.
4. Hope your kids don't get run over.
It's a residential street. What kind of speed limit would you like?
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED! It's simple and saves lives. What a concept!
And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above. And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35. The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record. So, 40 through a residential is too slow. You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.
EVERY speeding ticket goes on your driving record, regardless of if it's 2 miles over or 25. The difference is that insurance companies get different kinds of driving records than other, say, trucking companies do. So what a police officer is doing if he reduces it to 9 over the limit or less, is keeping your insurance company from seeing it on your record to keep your rates down, because they get restricted records.
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. I have received a few speeding tickets over the years and can tell you first hand, not all of them show up on your driving record. If you don't believe me, the next time you get pulled over, have the officer pull up your driving record and compare it to your driving record the DMV can pull. I can guarantee you, it will be differ. The DMV only goes back 5 yrs and DOES NOT list every ticket in that 5 years. I don't know the exact rules or parameters, but they are not all listed. I don't know where you got your information from, but it is incorrect.
I got my information from working for a company that provides MVRs to trucking companies, insurance companies. I believe I know what I'm talking about here, because I worked for this company for about 5 years.
What you get from the state DMV is every ticket you've ever had. What law enforcement gets about you may or may not be the same, but I will tell you they see everything else as well, as opposed to insurance companies who will typically get scrubbed records (any speeding ticket less the 10 miles over, non moving violations, fixit tickets, etc).
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
There is also a big speed trap on western parts of 71st. Meanwhile the crime rate skyrockets. I guess with the bad economy cities are hurting for money and they turn to speed traps.
That's a good point.
I wonder if the TPD ever thought of using those unmarked police cruisers as parking lot patrol cars to search for the thugs who break out car windows during the the Christmas shopping season.
I'm sure they didn't...
And those motorcycle units... are they hiding behind bushes trying to catch shoplifters or thieves breaking into cars?? Ha!!
No.
Motorcycle cops are driving enforcement fetish freaks until the day they retire.
They are collection agents. Nothing more.
I'll post these numbers again.
Police enforce traffic violations because:
People murdered in the US each year = 17,000.
People killed in traffic collisions each year = 43,000.
The costs of traffic collisions (damage to property, medical) = more then all crimes combined 10 fold.
The insurance on your $10,000 car is more then the insurance on your $100,000 house.
Wilbur - Are you a motorcycle cop?
If I intentionally run my car into a crowd of people....
Does that count as murder, traffic collision or do I get credit for both?
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Define 'speed trap'.
And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?
Lets pick:
1. Tough beans.
2. Move.
3. Got better things to do.
4. Hope your kids don't get run over.
It's a residential street. What kind of speed limit would you like?
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED! It's simple and saves lives. What a concept!
And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above. And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35. The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record. So, 40 through a residential is too slow. You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.
EVERY speeding ticket goes on your driving record, regardless of if it's 2 miles over or 25. The difference is that insurance companies get different kinds of driving records than other, say, trucking companies do. So what a police officer is doing if he reduces it to 9 over the limit or less, is keeping your insurance company from seeing it on your record to keep your rates down, because they get restricted records.
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. I have received a few speeding tickets over the years and can tell you first hand, not all of them show up on your driving record. If you don't believe me, the next time you get pulled over, have the officer pull up your driving record and compare it to your driving record the DMV can pull. I can guarantee you, it will be differ. The DMV only goes back 5 yrs and DOES NOT list every ticket in that 5 years. I don't know the exact rules or parameters, but they are not all listed. I don't know where you got your information from, but it is incorrect.
I got my information from working for a company that provides MVRs to trucking companies, insurance companies. I believe I know what I'm talking about here, because I worked for this company for about 5 years.
What you get from the state DMV is every ticket you've ever had. What law enforcement gets about you may or may not be the same, but I will tell you they see everything else as well, as opposed to insurance companies who will typically get scrubbed records (any speeding ticket less the 10 miles over, non moving violations, fixit tickets, etc).
I am not trying to be rude, but that is complete BULL****! Go down to any tag office and get a printout of your driving record. It goes back the past 5 or 7 years. IT DOES NOT SHOW EVERY TICKET YOU HAVE EVER HAD. I have had 6 tickets in 10 yrs (most recently in 2006). I can go down to my locagl tag office this very second, pay my 10 dollars and get a copy of my driving record and it will show no tickets. How do I know this? I did it 1.5 months ago. My driving record shows no tickets. How could that be if I have had 6 tickets in 10yrs?? Sorry what you pulled from your company might show every ticket because it involves a CDL or what not. But I can assure you, for the avg person with a class D license, that is not the case.
How many tickets have you had in your lifetime? I would be willing to bet that they all DO NOT SHOW UP ON YOUR MVR that you get at the tag office. Not trying to be an donkey, but you are misleading everyone in this thread thinking that the MVR will show EVERY ticket, which just isn't the case.
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Define 'speed trap'.
And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?
Lets pick:
1. Tough beans.
2. Move.
3. Got better things to do.
4. Hope your kids don't get run over.
It's a residential street. What kind of speed limit would you like?
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED! It's simple and saves lives. What a concept!
And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above. And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35. The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record. So, 40 through a residential is too slow. You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.
EVERY speeding ticket goes on your driving record, regardless of if it's 2 miles over or 25. The difference is that insurance companies get different kinds of driving records than other, say, trucking companies do. So what a police officer is doing if he reduces it to 9 over the limit or less, is keeping your insurance company from seeing it on your record to keep your rates down, because they get restricted records.
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. I have received a few speeding tickets over the years and can tell you first hand, not all of them show up on your driving record. If you don't believe me, the next time you get pulled over, have the officer pull up your driving record and compare it to your driving record the DMV can pull. I can guarantee you, it will be differ. The DMV only goes back 5 yrs and DOES NOT list every ticket in that 5 years. I don't know the exact rules or parameters, but they are not all listed. I don't know where you got your information from, but it is incorrect.
I got my information from working for a company that provides MVRs to trucking companies, insurance companies. I believe I know what I'm talking about here, because I worked for this company for about 5 years.
What you get from the state DMV is every ticket you've ever had. What law enforcement gets about you may or may not be the same, but I will tell you they see everything else as well, as opposed to insurance companies who will typically get scrubbed records (any speeding ticket less the 10 miles over, non moving violations, fixit tickets, etc).
I am not trying to be rude, but that is complete BULL****! Go down to any tag office and get a printout of your driving record. It goes back the past 5 or 7 years. IT DOES NOT SHOW EVERY TICKET YOU HAVE EVER HAD. I have had 6 tickets in 10 yrs (most recently in 2006). I can go down to my locagl tag office this very second, pay my 10 dollars and get a copy of my driving record and it will show no tickets. How do I know this? I did it 1.5 months ago. My driving record shows no tickets. How could that be if I have had 6 tickets in 10yrs?? Sorry what you pulled from your company might show every ticket because it involves a CDL or what not. But I can assure you, for the avg person with a class D license, that is not the case.
How many tickets have you had in your lifetime? I would be willing to bet that they all DO NOT SHOW UP ON YOUR MVR that you get at the tag office. Not trying to be an donkey, but you are misleading everyone in this thread thinking that the MVR will show EVERY ticket, which just isn't the case.
Being a police officer who has worked traffic enforcement duties for 17+ years of my career, I'm well aware of what shows up on someone's driving record, having looked at untold 1000s over the years. I'm well aware of the SP8 laws and SP9 laws that govern what speeding tickets go on your driving record and which ones do not. I'm well aware of what violations the Municipal Court reports to the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety.
Touche.
quote:
Originally posted by TeeDub
If I intentionally run my car into a crowd of people....
Does that count as murder, traffic collision or do I get credit for both?
You actually get credit for both, but the traffic collision would not go on your driving record (although, that is the least of your worries), believe it or not. Intentional acts are considered 'incidents' in the eyes of the state and 'incidents' are not considered collisions, even though they are reported on collision report forms. Don't ask me why. I don't get it either.
In the early 70s, Memorial was 2 lanes south of the RR tracks just south of 41st St. There was some development between 51st & 61st. South of that was not much until around 121st and 131st where there were a few businesses and some housing well off Memorial. I remember a traffic light at the Fina station at 71st. It may have been 81st. South of about 61st, the speed limit was 55. There was a steak house about 81st on the west side. There was a DX station at 91st. Sheridan and Mingo were unmarked south of about 71st. All were 2 lanes. Most were 4 way stops at the mile intersections except for Memorial. That led to several fatalities at 101st & Memorial since drivers (incorrectly) expected traffic on Memorial to also stop. Then the traffic light was installed. A few more fatalities occurred when drivers didn't see the light from 101st in the morning or evening sun.
As the area was developed, the road was eventually widened and the speed limit reduced. It seems to be a trend. Make the road better, lower the speed limit.
My 1971 Phillips 66 Tulsa city street map ends just south of 71st. There are no streets in the entire section between 61st & 71st and between Memorial and Mingo. The mark on Memorial just below the (Route)64 symbol says "To Muskogee". They completely ignored Bixby, Leonard, Stone Bluff, Haskell and several more.
I understand Oklahoma bans speed and red light cameras, but as more & more cities and states need easy money that ban on the cameras can be lifted. It just takes one bill in the state house to do that. I'd like to know how people in Arizona learned to deal with all the traffic cameras as was mentioned in that posted link story, do drivers know tricks to fool the cameras, or do drivers know how those speed/red light camera are tripped? They likely will expand the cameras in time and put them at stop signs, and school zones and where ever.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
I understand Oklahoma bans speed and red light cameras, but as more & more cities and states need easy money that ban on the cameras can be lifted. It just takes one bill in the state house to do that. I'd like to know how people in Arizona learned to deal with all the traffic cameras as was mentioned in that posted link story, do drivers know tricks to fool the cameras, or do drivers know how those speed/red light camera are tripped? They likely will expand the cameras in time and put them at stop signs, and school zones and where ever.
its called red camera spray and lots of people use it (just look for gunky looking plate numbers)
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
I understand Oklahoma bans speed and red light cameras, but as more & more cities and states need easy money that ban on the cameras can be lifted. It just takes one bill in the state house to do that.
A big story just today in London is that "Over 200,000 could get speed camera refund" because of improper signage.
Closer to home, the Minnesota Supreme Court had ruled that the use of automating ticketing machines violated state law and deprived motorists of due process, and is issuing $2.6 Million in refunds.
In addition to the city's fines, thousand of drivers paid hefty surcharges to their insurance company and about 300 had their drivers' licenses suspended as a result of the illegal photo tickets. A lawsuit was required to force the unwilling city to take action in May to clear the driving records of those affected.
North Carolina cities abandoned red light cameras after the state's highest court insisted that profit from the devices must be given to the public schools, instead of being pocketed by municipalities.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2666.asp
Tucson courts are expected to throw out up to 1000 tickets after a process server was allegedly caught falsifying documents,
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2665.asp
prompting a House of Representatives committee on Jan 22 to vote to ban the use of speed cameras on freeways.
Students in Montgomery County, Maryland began using fake license plates to send speed camera tickets to enemies. The "Speed Camera Pimping Game" became possible because photo enforcement devices will automatically mail out a ticket to any registered vehicle owner based solely on a photograph of a license plate.
Instead of purchasing license plates, students have ready access to laser printers that can create duplicate license plates using glossy paper using readily available fonts.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/26/2632.asp
And the state of Texas just busted two traffic camera companies for illegally operating as private investigators, following a similar move by Louisiana authorities.
So no, given the fraud, corruption and abuse associated with them, the future of automated traffic enforcement cameras doesnt look good.
Top Ten reasons for the case......for Speed Traps.!
1. Traffic stops are a primary path to the prevention of crime.
2. "Owasso Man" >>>>>>>(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/rico2/OwassoMan.jpg)
3..................
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20090125_298_0_OWASSO607820
OWASSO — Police arrested an Owasso city councilor on a DUI complaint around 3 a.m. Sunday.
D.J. Gall, 37, was booked into the Tulsa Jail on complaints of a first-offense driving while intoxicated and obstructing a police officer.
Gall serves on the Owasso City Council in Ward 1 and also is vice mayor.
Other complaints against Gall include carrying a loaded firearm while intoxicated, failing to notify police of the gun, failure to provide a concealed-carry permit, and traveling 14 mph over the speed limit.
An officer pulled Gall over in the 14000 block of East 86th Street for alleged speeding, according to a probable cause statement. Police radar clocked Gall traveling 49 mph in a 35 mph zone, according to the report.
The officer reportedly detected alcohol on Gall's breath and stated that he had slurred speech and was unsteady on his feet. Gall would not follow directions for field sobriety tests, records show.
Asked more than once if he had been drinking, Gall allegedly told the officer "No." A male passenger in the vehicle passed a field sobriety test after admitting he had consumed two or three beers.
The officer searched the vehicle, a Toyota pickup, and discovered a pistol with 10 live rounds inside a Crown Royal bag tucked under the driver's seat.
Gall refused to take a breath test at the Owasso police station, according to the report.
He posted a $5,600 bond and was released at 2 p.m., records show.
Gall's three-year
term expires this year. He has said that he plans on running for re-election in April.
Gall could not be immediately reached Sunday.
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
Top Ten reasons for the case......for Speed Traps.!
1. Traffic stops are a primary path to the prevention of crime.
Just stopping everyone to see what you can find wrong with them worked well for the Nazis, Soviets, etc, but a free society should have the bar raised a bit higher.
RE the Owasso DUI, exercising your right to refuse a field sobriety test is "obstructing an officer"?
Really? [B)]
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
In the early 70s, Memorial was 2 lanes south of the RR tracks just south of 41st St. There was some development between 51st & 61st. South of that was not much until around 121st and 131st where there were a few businesses and some housing well off Memorial. I remember a traffic light at the Fina station at 71st. It may have been 81st. South of about 61st, the speed limit was 55. There was a steak house about 81st on the west side. There was a DX station at 91st. Sheridan and Mingo were unmarked south of about 71st. All were 2 lanes. Most were 4 way stops at the mile intersections except for Memorial. That led to several fatalities at 101st & Memorial since drivers (incorrectly) expected traffic on Memorial to also stop. Then the traffic light was installed. A few more fatalities occurred when drivers didn't see the light from 101st in the morning or evening sun.
As the area was developed, the road was eventually widened and the speed limit reduced. It seems to be a trend. Make the road better, lower the speed limit.
My 1971 Phillips 66 Tulsa city street map ends just south of 71st. There are no streets in the entire section between 61st & 71st and between Memorial and Mingo. The mark on Memorial just below the (Route)64 symbol says "To Muskogee". They completely ignored Bixby, Leonard, Stone Bluff, Haskell and several more.
If you want to see some fascinating photos on the chronology of intersections in town, visit the Beryl Ford Collection (//%22http://www.berylfordcollection.com/%22).
This one is of 71st and Sheridan, looking north on Sheridan in 1954. They have heaps more than just that.
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/B1331.jpg)
quote:
Originally posted by patric
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
Top Ten reasons for the case......for Speed Traps.!
1. Traffic stops are a primary path to the prevention of crime.
Just stopping everyone to see what you can find wrong with them worked well for the Nazis, Soviets, etc, but a free society should have the bar raised a bit higher.
RE the Owasso DUI, exercising your right to refuse a field sobriety test is "obstructing an officer"?
Really? [B)]
Surely that wasn't what prompted the "obstructing" charge.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
I understand Oklahoma bans speed and red light cameras, but as more & more cities and states need easy money that ban on the cameras can be lifted. It just takes one bill in the state house to do that. I'd like to know how people in Arizona learned to deal with all the traffic cameras as was mentioned in that posted link story, do drivers know tricks to fool the cameras, or do drivers know how those speed/red light camera are tripped? They likely will expand the cameras in time and put them at stop signs, and school zones and where ever.
You can't really fool the cameras, the fixed point ones along the freeways are well marked in advance and they are set for 11mph over the posted limit. Most people drive the same routes every day and just check their speed when approaching one. I think in the first month to six weeks their were 100,000 citations issued from all of the cameras around the state both fixed and mobile. Of those only 30% actually paid the fines. My brother in law lives in Vegas and got one over Thanksgiving. He showed me the citation with a picture of him driving and of the licsense plate. The citation was sent to his wife since the vehicle is registered to her. She filled out the part that says she was not the driver, and the citation got tossed. A lot of people do that, register their vehicle in their name and then drive the spouses vehicle registered in the spouses name.
Also, several were tossed because the guy who was sitting in a mobile unit, was arrested for DUI while driving his mobile unit after working one day in Scottsdale. He was drinking on the job in a DPS truck.
That license plate spray sounds good, I never heard of it. I always thought people had the right to face their accusers when charged with a crime, but courts have ruled that you can get a camera ticket and charged with a crime even if the camera does not show up in court to be cross-examed. Cameras seem un-constitunal to me.
quote:
Originally posted by patric
quote:
Originally posted by Rico
Top Ten reasons for the case......for Speed Traps.!
1. Traffic stops are a primary path to the prevention of crime.
Just stopping everyone to see what you can find wrong with them worked well for the Nazis, Soviets, etc, but a free society should have the bar raised a bit higher.
RE the Owasso DUI, exercising your right to refuse a field sobriety test is "obstructing an officer"?
Really? [B)]
Patric.... Does it say "stop everyone".?
By the way.. nice touch how you captured the (black i)... or was it "black eye"..?
Whatever;
The point was that if a cop encounters someone behaving in a manner, while driving an automobile, with a flagrant disregard for the law.... the large majority of those people have more than just that offense on their jacket.
I really wasn't talking about a "speed trap" situation.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
That license plate spray sounds good, I never heard of it. I always thought people had the right to face their accusers when charged with a crime, but courts have ruled that you can get a camera ticket and charged with a crime even if the camera does not show up in court to be cross-examed. Cameras seem un-constitunal to me.
It's not a criminal complaint..it's a civil citation. That's the loophole they use. The same one used in many states to deny you the right to a jury trial for a traffic violation.
quote:
Originally posted by patric
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED!
Such a simplistic view would have traction if the, um, "enhanced enforcement efforts" werent strategically placed where the physics of the terrain precipitate transient spikes in the speed of otherwise law-abiding drivers.
Nailing someone disregarding the law on even ground is one thing, but metering people at the bottom of a hill is disingenuous and calculated.
With this kind of logic you just say. Well I was going 55 with the speed limit was 40 but I was on a hill. So I should not have been injured like I was going 55! It was just the hill! Moron!
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
It's pretty well proven that speeding tickets don't actually do any good. It does just as much good to post a single unit in a problem area to sit there and look pretty and make people's radar detectors go off.
Most folks slow down when they see an officer. The ones that fail to correct their speed should be ticketed.
Posting four officers in one location doesn't do much good.
The real solution is to narrow the roadway such that people don't want to speed.
Of course, here in Tulsa, we can't think outside the box like that, so we ticket and install speed bumps. They're both useless, but speed bumps are also dangerous and cause noise and pollution in the neighborhood.
Proven????? Where is this Study?
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Define 'speed trap'.
And since the police department has receive untold number of complaints about speeders in the area of 33rd and Irvington, and you obviously don't feel the police are needed there (even though plenty of speeding is going on there since plenty of tickets are being written), your response to these citizens who live on this street who call the police would be what?
Lets pick:
1. Tough beans.
2. Move.
3. Got better things to do.
4. Hope your kids don't get run over.
It's a residential street. What kind of speed limit would you like?
I got a sure fired way of never getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED! It's simple and saves lives. What a concept!
And knowing what most officers give before they stop a speeder, I'll guarantee you most are at 40 or above. And don't tell me you're getting tickets for 35. The officer stopped you going faster but lowered the speed to 35 to keep the ticket off your driving record. So, 40 through a residential is too slow. You mean the speed limit on Riverside is too slow for that area.
EVERY speeding ticket goes on your driving record, regardless of if it's 2 miles over or 25. The difference is that insurance companies get different kinds of driving records than other, say, trucking companies do. So what a police officer is doing if he reduces it to 9 over the limit or less, is keeping your insurance company from seeing it on your record to keep your rates down, because they get restricted records.
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong. I have received a few speeding tickets over the years and can tell you first hand, not all of them show up on your driving record. If you don't believe me, the next time you get pulled over, have the officer pull up your driving record and compare it to your driving record the DMV can pull. I can guarantee you, it will be differ. The DMV only goes back 5 yrs and DOES NOT list every ticket in that 5 years. I don't know the exact rules or parameters, but they are not all listed. I don't know where you got your information from, but it is incorrect.
I know for a fact that the police officer pulling you over can see your complete history. He showed me. It had tickets on there from when I was in high school.
quote:
Originally posted by tnt091605
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
It's pretty well proven that speeding tickets don't actually do any good. It does just as much good to post a single unit in a problem area to sit there and look pretty and make people's radar detectors go off.
Most folks slow down when they see an officer. The ones that fail to correct their speed should be ticketed.
Posting four officers in one location doesn't do much good.
The real solution is to narrow the roadway such that people don't want to speed.
Of course, here in Tulsa, we can't think outside the box like that, so we ticket and install speed bumps. They're both useless, but speed bumps are also dangerous and cause noise and pollution in the neighborhood.
Proven????? Where is this Study?
Use the google, luke.
Anecdotally, I was talking to a friend the other day who claims she doesn't speed anymore because she got a bunch of tickets. A couple of days later we were going to dinner and she was driving...and speeding.