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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => National & International Politics => Topic started by: guido911 on December 21, 2008, 12:07:43 PM

Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: guido911 on December 21, 2008, 12:07:43 PM
The NYT points out what most of us already knew: Democrats charitable giving far less that Rethugs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html?_r=1
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 21, 2008, 12:23:25 PM
He also says that gay people give more to charity than straight people.

Your thread headline is misleading. President Bush grew government and debt greater than any President in history.

Why don't you be honest and say conservatives just spend money they don't have?
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: Gaspar on December 21, 2008, 12:23:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by guido911

The NYT points out what most of us already knew: Democrats charitable giving far less that Rethugs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html?_r=1




Funny.  I see someone report this every year.  Old news.



Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: Gaspar on December 21, 2008, 12:25:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

He also says that gay people give more to charity than straight people.

Your thread headline is misleading. President Bush grew government and debt greater than any President in history.

Why don't you be honest and say conservatives just spend money they don't have?



Bush is far from conservative.  Perhaps in name only, but not in action.


Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 21, 2008, 12:32:17 PM
Ok. How about President Reagan and the first President Bush?

Together these three Presidents are responsible for almost 92% of the national debt.

http://reaganbushdebt.org/
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: guido911 on December 21, 2008, 12:50:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

He also says that gay people give more to charity than straight people.

Your thread headline is misleading. President Bush grew government and debt greater than any President in history.

Why don't you be honest and say conservatives just spend money they don't have?



Good grief RM. Whine much?  Anyway, I did not write this article, the neo-con NYT did. Complain to them.
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: TheArtist on December 21, 2008, 01:38:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by guido911

The NYT points out what most of us already knew: Democrats charitable giving far less that Rethugs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html?_r=1



Oklahomans give more and volunteer more than people in most other states. And have some of the lowest over all tax burdens of any state. So we should be the shining example of what personal giving and volunteering could do to better society. Yet we still have some of the highest rates of hunger, poverty, child neglect and abuse, homelessness, drug abuse, etc. etc. etc. etc.  

You can "give" in many ways. Some believe that its people gathering together and choosing to do things through gov. Some believe its people gathering together and choosing to do things through their churches. Some believe its people gathering together and choosing to do things through charities. etc. or some different balances of those things.

Sometimes those who choose or rely on one way, may see fallacies in a different way. But I have noticed waste, corruption, etc. in all situations. Bad/inefficient charities, bad/inefficient churches, bad/inefficient government. I do not always agree with what my church does, a charity does, the government does. They all spend my and other peoples money lol. We are not going to get rid of the different "means". But we can strive to make them better and do a better job of what we ask them to do. The "job" still has to be done one way or the other. There will always be someone else spending your money; well or poorly, efficiently or inefficiently, with any organization.

Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: Red Arrow on December 21, 2008, 02:08:25 PM
Being single, no dependents, and no mortgage, the government has chosen my path of charitable giving to be through taxes.
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: waterboy on December 21, 2008, 03:28:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow

Being single, no dependents, and no mortgage, the government has chosen my path of charitable giving to be through taxes.



You made those choices. The government didn't choose this path for you or force you to stay there. Buy some rental property, adopt a child and find a mate (of the opposite sex) and the government will feel your pain and give you tax deductions!
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: guido911 on December 21, 2008, 04:10:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy

quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow

Being single, no dependents, and no mortgage, the government has chosen my path of charitable giving to be through taxes.



You made those choices. The government didn't choose this path for you or force you to stay there. Buy some rental property, adopt a child and find a mate (of the opposite sex) and the government will feel your pain and give you tax deductions!



Yeah, what Waterboy said. Enjoy your punishment.
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: Red Arrow on December 21, 2008, 06:36:28 PM
Why should the tax code punish me because I chose not buy something I cannot afford, raise a child I don't want, and set myself up for an expensive divorce? (Marriage is the leading cause of divorce.) Why should the government support your choices over mine? If someone chooses to buy a house fine, don't ask me to pay for it.  If you want children, fine. Pay for them yourself. Tax on a spouse is tricky, depending on whether you both work. The "progressive" tax is the problem there.
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 22, 2008, 09:41:57 AM
It is a well documented trend that liberals give less to "charity" than conservatives.  It is also true that gifts to churches count as charitable giving.  Even if said church uses the money for new facilities, social events, or fancy cars for certain members.  

I'm going to start a charity that uses most of our donations on booze filled parties, and I'm not talking about the Shriners.

Honestly, I'm willing to bet the church giving is the difference.  And IMHO, most of that is in support of a social club since most churches consume most of their resources internally.

Also worth giving Drew Curtis a shout out on the lazy reporting thing.  Soon to be in the news:  Santa Stories.  Consumer spending trends.  Gym membership stories and other failed resolutions. And the cycle continues...
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: Michael71 on December 23, 2008, 03:22:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow

Why should the tax code punish me because I chose not buy something I cannot afford, raise a child I don't want, and set myself up for an expensive divorce? (Marriage is the leading cause of divorce.) Why should the government support your choices over mine? If someone chooses to buy a house fine, don't ask me to pay for it.  If you want children, fine. Pay for them yourself. Tax on a spouse is tricky, depending on whether you both work. The "progressive" tax is the problem there.



Well said!!
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: azbadpuppy on December 23, 2008, 03:55:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow

Why should the tax code punish me because I chose not buy something I cannot afford, raise a child I don't want, and set myself up for an expensive divorce? (Marriage is the leading cause of divorce.) Why should the government support your choices over mine? If someone chooses to buy a house fine, don't ask me to pay for it.  If you want children, fine. Pay for them yourself. Tax on a spouse is tricky, depending on whether you both work. The "progressive" tax is the problem there.



Hmmm, sounds exactly like what same sex couples have been saying for quite some time. Only difference is straight people have the choice to get married for the tax benefits where same sex couples do not.
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: guido911 on December 23, 2008, 04:04:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by azbadpuppy

quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow

Why should the tax code punish me because I chose not buy something I cannot afford, raise a child I don't want, and set myself up for an expensive divorce? (Marriage is the leading cause of divorce.) Why should the government support your choices over mine? If someone chooses to buy a house fine, don't ask me to pay for it.  If you want children, fine. Pay for them yourself. Tax on a spouse is tricky, depending on whether you both work. The "progressive" tax is the problem there.



Hmmm, sounds exactly like what same sex couples have been saying for quite some time. Only difference is straight people have the choice to get married for the tax benefits where same sex couples do not.



Well stated.
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: azbadpuppy on December 23, 2008, 04:06:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder

It is a well documented trend that liberals give less to "charity" than conservatives.  It is also true that gifts to churches count as charitable giving.  Even if said church uses the money for new facilities, social events, or fancy cars for certain members.  

I'm going to start a charity that uses most of our donations on booze filled parties, and I'm not talking about the Shriners.

Honestly, I'm willing to bet the church giving is the difference.  And IMHO, most of that is in support of a social club since most churches consume most of their resources internally.

Also worth giving Drew Curtis a shout out on the lazy reporting thing.  Soon to be in the news:  Santa Stories.  Consumer spending trends.  Gym membership stories and other failed resolutions. And the cycle continues...



Bingo! That's it exactly. Church tithing should not be considered 'charity'. It only takes one short drive around Tulsa to see that the 'mega' churches, the Southern Baptists and many others are hardly hurting for money, as their constantly expanding and gentrifying facilities (and pastor salaries) are a testament to that 'charitable' giving.

Tithing should be classified as a membership fee. If tithing was taken out of the equation, I guarantee this story would read a whole lot differently.
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: Hometown on December 23, 2008, 04:48:08 PM
Republican One Trick Pony:  Borrow, borrow, borrow.

They have saddled generations with debt.

The People's Debt -- courtesy of the Republican Party.

Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: lydiem on January 03, 2009, 10:22:15 AM
We pay taxes for social and public services that should not be financed by charities.  But, for the past eight years tax money has been used to finance 'war-fare' instead of 'well-fare' ...  strange conservative priorities!!!

Second, "charity" is a generic label that include so-called "non-profit" religious organizations, otherwise called "churches" and "mega-churches"...  And since conservatives are more likely to belong to churches, their donations are entered as tax-deductable charity...  Look at those preachers who use religion as a marketing tool while showing off their special divinity by means of diamond bracelets, necklace, ...  Do you call this charity? !!!!

All the acts of charity extended by people to others are not tax-deductable, and therefore not registered under the official label of "charity" on IRS forms, and by extension, not mentioned in the NYT article.  

This leads us to a very important question:  What is "Charity" exactly?
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: lydiem on January 03, 2009, 10:42:06 AM
Oklahomans take pride in leading the country in so-called "charities"... and yet, the latest report on poverty published by the United Nations shows that Oklahoma is a state with one of the highest rate of poverty in the United State (and that the United States has the highest rate of poverty in the industrialized world, BTW).  So, why is it the highest rate of charity led by Oklahoma does not alleviate the highest rate of poverty in the same state of Oklahoma?  Where do all the charity donations go?
Title: Liberals--Great Spenders of Other People's Money
Post by: guido911 on January 03, 2009, 11:15:06 AM
quote:
Originally posted by lydiem

We pay taxes for social and public services that should not be financed by charities.  But, for the past eight years tax money has been used to finance 'war-fare' instead of 'well-fare' ...  strange conservative priorities!!!

Second, "charity" is a generic label that include so-called "non-profit" religious organizations, otherwise called "churches" and "mega-churches"...  And since conservatives are more likely to belong to churches, their donations are entered as tax-deductable charity...  Look at those preachers who use religion as a marketing tool while showing off their special divinity by means of diamond bracelets, necklace, ...  Do you call this charity? !!!!

All the acts of charity extended by people to others are not tax-deductable, and therefore not registered under the official label of "charity" on IRS forms, and by extension, not mentioned in the NYT article.  

This leads us to a very important question:  What is "Charity" exactly?



The Newbie has a great point. Those that give to charity, stop giving!