The MTTA Google maps debacle got me thinking that there are incredibly simple solutions that could reap huge citizen benefits. So lets list problems of Tulsa City government that appear to be easy fixes. We're going to call these "no brainers".
Here are some preliminary rules, based on the MTTA problem:
1. Fix has to be readily apparent and available.
2. Fix has to have a no or low cost.
So with that I'm going to list two.
1. The MTTA Google Transit problem
2. The lack of TGOV online video archive/live streaming.
Ultimately what we need is a WIKI for each problem and a list of solutions and history. A discussion forum just won't do it.
Both of these things involve the interweb.
3. They don't use the internets effectively.
considering they now live in a building LACED with fiber I don't find that problem even fathomable, but since it is a problem it is worth looking into.
My pet peeve is duplicity in functions of government. I never fail to point out that the Parks Dept. does the same stuff the River Parks Authority does. It was set up as an authority to enable it to borrow. Yet it hasn't been in debt for a long time, relying mostly on donations and fundraisers like Oktoberfest. Most of it resides within Tulsa city limits. Parks can fulfill the same functions of mowing, security, trash pickup etc.
Is this too complex for your requirements?
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
My pet peeve is duplicity in functions of government. I never fail to point out that the Parks Dept. does the same stuff the River Parks Authority does. It was set up as an authority to enable it to borrow. Yet it hasn't been in debt for a long time, relying mostly on donations and fundraisers like Oktoberfest. Most of it resides within Tulsa city limits. Parks can fulfill the same functions of mowing, security, trash pickup etc.
Is this too complex for your requirements?
no that is an easy one to solve, but it will take councilor actions. I guess we can bring it up and see if it can be added to a public works meeting.
Go to once a week trash pickup. At worst everyone will have to get an extra trash can. Most of my life I have had 1x trash pickup and no one complained about it. Here, I usually only bother taking cans out once a week.
It is nice, but if it would save money go to once a week.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Go to once a week trash pickup. At worst everyone will have to get an extra trash can. Most of my life I have had 1x trash pickup and no one complained about it. Here, I usually only bother taking cans out once a week.
It is nice, but if it would save money go to once a week.
Ok, but I think that one has already seen its time come and go. They did a pilot, but extending that met citizen resistance.
If more citizens took advantage of the curb side recycle program they wouldn't need their trash picked up twice a week.
A small handful of citizens whined about losing twice-a-week trash service and the city councilors caved.
The whole country is going to once-a-week trash pickup, but not Tulsa. The whining residents acted as if the had a God-given right to throw away trash two days a week.
When people ask why we don't have more recycling in Tulsa, it is because we over-service trash.
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
If more citizens took advantage of the curb side recycle program they wouldn't need their trash picked up twice a week.
if the recylcing was free like it is in other cities more people might use it.
The city should consider a pilot of free recycling while keeping twice a week and see how that goes.
I have been saying that for a while now. I think if people get used to recycling, they won't be so insistent an twice a week garbage.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
I have been saying that for a while now. I think if people get used to recycling, they won't be so insistent an twice a week garbage.
Agreed. I have curbside recycling, and there are some days that I don't put out the trash simply because I don't need to.
so attack the problem in reverse. GIVE people something instead of taking something away and forcing them to do something.
I know I would recycle if I didn't have to pay. But paying for the priviledge of giving my trash to someone who will take it and make money off of it is not my idea of fair.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
My pet peeve is duplicity in functions of government. I never fail to point out that the Parks Dept. does the same stuff the River Parks Authority does. It was set up as an authority to enable it to borrow. Yet it hasn't been in debt for a long time, relying mostly on donations and fundraisers like Oktoberfest. Most of it resides within Tulsa city limits. Parks can fulfill the same functions of mowing, security, trash pickup etc.
Is this too complex for your requirements?
A valid peeve if Tulsa was the sole funder of RPA. However; Tulsa County is the second half of the Trust beneficiary and provides approximately half of the regular funding.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
so attack the problem in reverse. GIVE people something instead of taking something away and forcing them to do something.
I know I would recycle if I didn't have to pay. But paying for the priviledge of giving my trash to someone who will take it and make money off of it is not my idea of fair.
I agree that it should be free (even though the charge is nominal) especially since the service is so uneven. My pick up is on the 1st and 3rd Wednesday of the month, but many times they don't come by - or - they only take part of it (or that could be some random passerby harvesing the aluminum and leaving the paper and plastic). Last month I had to take the recycling to the MET myself.
Once you take out everything that can be recycled or composted my house barely creates a half bag of garbage per week.
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
so attack the problem in reverse. GIVE people something instead of taking something away and forcing them to do something.
I know I would recycle if I didn't have to pay. But paying for the priviledge of giving my trash to someone who will take it and make money off of it is not my idea of fair.
I agree that it should be free (even though the charge is nominal) especially since the service is so uneven. My pick up is on the 1st and 3rd Wednesday of the month, but many times they don't come by - or - they only take part of it (or that could be some random passerby harvesing the aluminum and leaving the paper and plastic). Last month I had to take the recycling to the MET myself.
Once you take out everything that can be recycled or composted my house barely creates a half bag of garbage per week.
yeah, well you are never going to get the necessary uptake if the service isn't reliable. You PAY for unreliable service? I'd hate to see what free service would yield.
It puzzles me that cities big and smaller than Tulsa can have successful recycling programs but Tulsa just doesn't seem to get it.
Maybe if we went to per bag service like they do in Fayetteville, AR people would use the recycling service. You get a year's supply of bags and if you run out of them you are SOL unless you buy them at $1.50 A POP.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
Maybe if we went to per bag service like they do in Fayetteville, AR people would use the recycling service. You get a year's supply of bags and if you run out of them you are SOL unless you buy them at $1.50 A POP.
If I ran out of them I wouldn't consider that a year's worth. If I ran out 10 months into the year I'd call that 10 month's supply.
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
so attack the problem in reverse. GIVE people something instead of taking something away and forcing them to do something.
I know I would recycle if I didn't have to pay. But paying for the priviledge of giving my trash to someone who will take it and make money off of it is not my idea of fair.
I agree that it should be free (even though the charge is nominal) especially since the service is so uneven. My pick up is on the 1st and 3rd Wednesday of the month, but many times they don't come by - or - they only take part of it (or that could be some random passerby harvesing the aluminum and leaving the paper and plastic). Last month I had to take the recycling to the MET myself.
Once you take out everything that can be recycled or composted my house barely creates a half bag of garbage per week.
It should most definitely be free. What proportion does not opt for curbside recycling? Seems like you could charge a minuscule recycling fee to all and cover my 2 dollars a month for unreliable service. I would estimate that my bins are emptied about half of the time I have it out for the scheduled day.
quote:
Originally posted by jne
It should most definitely be free. What proportion does not opt for curbside recycling? Seems like you could charge a minuscule recycling fee to all and cover my 2 dollars a month for unreliable service. I would estimate that my bins are emptied about half of the time I have it out for the scheduled day.
Why should it be free?
Tulsans never complain that they pay $15 a month for trash, then shout that recycling should be free.
The cost are very much the same for curbside collection of either. The difference is that Tulsans have said they want twice-a-week trash pickup and don't need any more than twice-a-month recycling pickup. That is the reality we need to change.
The Tulsa trash contractor is paid a hundred dollars a year to come by your house. The same company gets $31 a year to pickup the 10% of the Tulsans who voluntarily pay two dollars a month for it. That is the majority of the trash expenses.
Tulsa pays about $25 a year to the landfill for disposal from the average home.
The value of the recyclables from the average home at todays' prices is about $30 a year and that is counting on continued tonnage from neewspapers and aluminum cans, both of which are declining. That also doesn't account for sorting and baling.
There is no free curbside recycling in any town in America. It might not show up as a line item on your bill, but it is usbsidized somewhere.
I have no problem with the $2 recycle fee. Although, trying to determine what time of day they show up has been a challenge lately. It's either 6 in the morning or 8 at night. Go figure.
As for cutting trash to once-a-week pickup, I'm good with that, when they cut my trash pickup fee by 50%.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
Maybe if we went to per bag service like they do in Fayetteville, AR people would use the recycling service. You get a year's supply of bags and if you run out of them you are SOL unless you buy them at $1.50 A POP.
Didn't they can that system when they went to carts a few years back? IIRC, now they'll take whatever you can cram in your cart (in any bag), plus whatever you're willing to pay for their pink bags for. Of course, they have free recycling there, too. So for most families, you're just being wasteful (or too cheap to pay for the bigger cart) if you can't dispose of enough trash.
In Springdale, you have to pay Waste Management directly for trash service. They take up to 10 bags a week for their less than $10 a month fee, but they only come once a week. You have to pay for recycling, so almost nobody does.
Interestingly, Fayetteville went to the bag system because Waste Management claimed they were running out of space in the landfill and required their municipal customers to limit the amount of trash they deliver there. Not a peep to their direct residential customers or commercial customers, though. Go figure.
Yes...there have been many problems with the contractor. Most of them are getting resolved.
There is more trouble on the horizon, though.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
quote:
Originally posted by jne
It should most definitely be free. What proportion does not opt for curbside recycling? Seems like you could charge a minuscule recycling fee to all and cover my 2 dollars a month for unreliable service. I would estimate that my bins are emptied about half of the time I have it out for the scheduled day.
Why should it be free?
Tulsans never complain that they pay $15 a month for trash, then shout that recycling should be free.
The cost are very much the same for curbside collection of either. The difference is that Tulsans have said they want twice-a-week trash pickup and don't need any more than twice-a-month recycling pickup. That is the reality we need to change.
The Tulsa trash contractor is paid a hundred dollars a year to come by your house. The same company gets $31 a year to pickup the 10% of the Tulsans who voluntarily pay two dollars a month for it. That is the majority of the trash expenses.
Tulsa pays about $25 a year to the landfill for disposal from the average home.
The value of the recyclables from the average home at todays' prices is about $30 a year and that is counting on continued tonnage from neewspapers and aluminum cans, both of which are declining. That also doesn't account for sorting and baling.
There is no free curbside recycling in any town in America. It might not show up as a line item on your bill, but it is usbsidized somewhere.
ok, set aside whether it is "free" or free for a moment. Compare the uptake of recycling in "free" towns versus here. I bet it is a lot higher than towns that show it as a separate line item.
There are so many different ways to have curbside recycling. Some communities have separate bins, some collect everything in one single pass.
I am hosting a meeting tomorrow morning between a national firm and area trash guys to discuss the company making a significant investment in recycling sorting technology in a facility in Tulsa.
It is called "single stream" recycling collection and if we can get this private company to bite, we can have the best recycling in the region.
If anyone wants to be invited to this 10am meeting, PM me.
quote:
Originally posted by Vision 2025
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
My pet peeve is duplicity in functions of government. I never fail to point out that the Parks Dept. does the same stuff the River Parks Authority does. It was set up as an authority to enable it to borrow. Yet it hasn't been in debt for a long time, relying mostly on donations and fundraisers like Oktoberfest. Most of it resides within Tulsa city limits. Parks can fulfill the same functions of mowing, security, trash pickup etc.
Is this too complex for your requirements?
A valid peeve if Tulsa was the sole funder of RPA. However; Tulsa County is the second half of the Trust beneficiary and provides approximately half of the regular funding.
Four words. Tulsa County Parks Department.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
quote:
Originally posted by Vision 2025
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
My pet peeve is duplicity in functions of government. I never fail to point out that the Parks Dept. does the same stuff the River Parks Authority does. It was set up as an authority to enable it to borrow. Yet it hasn't been in debt for a long time, relying mostly on donations and fundraisers like Oktoberfest. Most of it resides within Tulsa city limits. Parks can fulfill the same functions of mowing, security, trash pickup etc.
Is this too complex for your requirements?
A valid peeve if Tulsa was the sole funder of RPA. However; Tulsa County is the second half of the Trust beneficiary and provides approximately half of the regular funding.
Four words. Tulsa County Parks Department.
that brings up another point that Eagleton has already mentioned....merging city and county governments, then you could go about merging some of these trusts into existing entities.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
quote:
Originally posted by jne
It should most definitely be free. What proportion does not opt for curbside recycling? Seems like you could charge a minuscule recycling fee to all and cover my 2 dollars a month for unreliable service. I would estimate that my bins are emptied about half of the time I have it out for the scheduled day.
Why should it be free?
Tulsans never complain that they pay $15 a month for trash, then shout that recycling should be free.
The cost are very much the same for curbside collection of either. The difference is that Tulsans have said they want twice-a-week trash pickup and don't need any more than twice-a-month recycling pickup. That is the reality we need to change.
The Tulsa trash contractor is paid a hundred dollars a year to come by your house. The same company gets $31 a year to pickup the 10% of the Tulsans who voluntarily pay two dollars a month for it. That is the majority of the trash expenses.
Tulsa pays about $25 a year to the landfill for disposal from the average home.
The value of the recyclables from the average home at todays' prices is about $30 a year and that is counting on continued tonnage from neewspapers and aluminum cans, both of which are declining. That also doesn't account for sorting and baling.
There is no free curbside recycling in any town in America. It might not show up as a line item on your bill, but it is usbsidized somewhere.
It should be free because the goal is to have more folks recycle. As it stands, the incentive is to NOT recycle. I think that is simple enough.
I would have no problem with a small increase in everyone's trash rate to include recycling, but that won't necessarily get more people to do so - so why not consider penalizing the fee to those that choose not to recycle?
FTR - I think once a week is plenty for normal trash pickup
I'm new here, but I wanted to add my two cents as well.
I'm fine with paying for garbage pickup, it's alot better then having to take it myself. With a wife and two kids and cooking 90% of my meals at home rather then eating out, I stockpile alot of garbage. I think I could do once a week though.
If the city supplied everyone with a trash can when they first sign up for trash pickup, and then switched to once a week pickup I imagine it would save a ton of money in the long run. Even if they don't provide an addition can, I would have no problem going out and buying one if my bill got cut even 25% to switch to once a week.
On the recycling issue, I pay for it, have tried to get the bin/bags for the recycling, but have never been able to get it. perhaps i'm not asking the right people. I even bought my own bin and I have NEVER had it picked up, in 6 months of paying for the service.
I have no problem with paying for recycling, but perhaps offer a small tax deduction for how much you recycle and when you first sign up for the service have the city drop off a recycling bin. Maybe this is how it works now, but at my little house in midtown, it doesn't work that way.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Go to once a week trash pickup. At worst everyone will have to get an extra trash can. Most of my life I have had 1x trash pickup and no one complained about it. Here, I usually only bother taking cans out once a week.
It is nice, but if it would save money go to once a week.
I'm confused. We just moved back to Tulsa in October and have once a week pick up. Do different areas of the city have different pickups - some once a week, some twice a week?
quote:
Originally posted by Zelladir
On the recycling issue, I pay for it, have tried to get the bin/bags for the recycling, but have never been able to get it. perhaps i'm not asking the right people. I even bought my own bin and I have NEVER had it picked up, in 6 months of paying for the service.
This contractor has had many problems.
Call the Mayor's action center at 596-2100.
If that doesn't work, send me a PM.
quote:
Originally posted by Miss Solemnis
I'm confused. We just moved back to Tulsa in October and have once a week pick up. Do different areas of the city have different pickups - some once a week, some twice a week?
North of 244 and west of Yale have once-a-week trash service with city-provided carts, and the rest of the city has twice-a-week service with cusomer provided cans.
The once a week is about 3 dollars cheaper.
I watched on TGOV a long explanation of a proposal for once a week pickup, done by Steve Berlin to a city board. The upshot (sorry, I couldn't last through the whole meeting) was that it is not only feasible but would potentially save a lot of expense. The carts are larger. Its a more efficient system.
The main problem seemed to be the public's perceived attitude that it would be a reduction in service. That was exacerbated by the attitude of northside councillors who were unhappy that the rest of the city gets twice a week while they have to "suffer" with once a week.
It looks like nothing came of it all. Makes too much sense.
I have once a week service with the city provided trashcan, much better service then when I lived on the east side and has twice a week service. Well better might be the wrong word, more reliable might be more fitting.
As for recycling I just take my own stuff to the met in Sand Springs. No need for curb side while the service is still unreliable.
quote:
Originally posted by jne
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
quote:
Originally posted by jne
It should most definitely be free. What proportion does not opt for curbside recycling? Seems like you could charge a minuscule recycling fee to all and cover my 2 dollars a month for unreliable service. I would estimate that my bins are emptied about half of the time I have it out for the scheduled day.
Why should it be free?
Tulsans never complain that they pay $15 a month for trash, then shout that recycling should be free.
The cost are very much the same for curbside collection of either. The difference is that Tulsans have said they want twice-a-week trash pickup and don't need any more than twice-a-month recycling pickup. That is the reality we need to change.
The Tulsa trash contractor is paid a hundred dollars a year to come by your house. The same company gets $31 a year to pickup the 10% of the Tulsans who voluntarily pay two dollars a month for it. That is the majority of the trash expenses.
Tulsa pays about $25 a year to the landfill for disposal from the average home.
The value of the recyclables from the average home at todays' prices is about $30 a year and that is counting on continued tonnage from neewspapers and aluminum cans, both of which are declining. That also doesn't account for sorting and baling.
There is no free curbside recycling in any town in America. It might not show up as a line item on your bill, but it is usbsidized somewhere.
It should be free because the goal is to have more folks recycle. As it stands, the incentive is to NOT recycle. I think that is simple enough.
I would have no problem with a small increase in everyone's trash rate to include recycling, but that won't necessarily get more people to do so - so why not consider penalizing the fee to those that choose not to recycle?
FTR - I think once a week is plenty for normal trash pickup
Exactly. In Austin, recycling is the standard, and you are extremely limited on how much trash you can put out - and all additional trash is an extra charge... Makes you think twice about what you throw away and much more likely to buy recyclable containers, etc..
I grew up on once a week trash pick up, and we never had any problem - those carts are huge. When I moved here, I thought twice a week was insane. It is a RARE week that I put trash out twice.
I put trash out twice a week even if I only have one bag...it's not that I want twice a week, it just feels like I'm wasteful if I don't use them each time they are on my street.
I'm absolutely for once a week.
What happens with yard waste limits if we do eventually switch to once a week pick-up?
Let me answer for RM:
Yard clippings and leaves should be placed in a compost pile and reused in flower and vegetable gardens after decomposition. The nutrients in compost are perfect for planting. Why buy dirt when you can make it? There is no reason to take this type of yard waste to the landfill.
Tree limbs and brush can be set out at the curb in 4' bundles to be picked up, or taken to the city's green waste site.
Huh, RM's got a forum wife. That is scrumptiooouuussss.
CarltonPlace has just heard me give enough speeches.
Here is a column I wrote about composting a couple of months ago...
This is the week that leaves begin to gently drop from the trees onto our lawns. This is part of the giant recycling system of the earth. The leaves, which consist of carbon, nitrogen and water, will eventually break down into a fine layer of nutrients for your lawn. Despite this great benefit, many Tulsans will rake leaves into plastic bags and put them at the curb for the trash man to take them away.
My goal is to convince those citizens to stop that wasteful habit. First of all, the bags cost money. Secondly, the trash trucks fill up faster than during the rest of the year which means more trips to the landfill. More truckloads mean more air pollution and wear and tear on our roads plus filling up the landfill sooner. These two measures combine to cause trash rates to rise, even for those of us who don't foolishly follow this bad behavior.
But we feel pressure to do something with all those leaves. We can't just let Mother Nature do her magic because the leaves may cover up and hurt our carefully manicured lawns. What would the neighbors say if our leaves blew into their lawn? We have to do something. Well, there is something you can do with all those leaves that keeps our lawns neat, makes our neighbors happy and doesn't waste valuable resources.
Just mow over them a few times. Start up that mower and grind them up. If you run over them a couple of times, the leaves will break down into small pieces that will amazingly disappear. You don't need a special mulching blade on your mower, but it helps. All a mulching blade does is chop them a little more efficiently, but an extra pass with the mower will make up the difference.
If all this sounds like too much work, go ahead and rake into a pile but avoid the plastic bag. Just find a spot near a fence and make a pile. The leaves naturally compost and you will have wonderful new soil to use in the spring. You don't need any enclosure, but it helps. For compost bin designs that you can make yourself, go to our website at www.metrecycle.com. Our leaves don't belong in the trash. They are more valuable than trash and can be used by you to make a better lawn, garden and planet.
Here is a past column I wrote about building a compost bin...
I keep writing about how important it is to compost your leaves, but I haven't really talked much about the different types of compost bins you can make to help turns those leaves into valuable soil. Here is how you can make your own using simple and easy to find materials.
The best compost bin I ever saw was one my father made for my mother fifteen years ago. It was composed of four pallets standing on their side and held together with some hinges left over from a remodeling project. He joined three of the sides but left one corner unhinged so he could swing it open and add leaves or take out compost. It was about four feet wide by four feet four feet deep and four feet high. That is a perfect size because it is big enough to generate some heat but not so big that the edges cool off.
I have a nice one at my house that was made but leftover pieces of a chain link fence. I had five posts and about eighteen feet of fence. I sat the posts in the shape of a "C" with the back edge about ten feet long and four foot sides. It is a double size bin where I stack the fall leaves on one side, the grass from the summer in the other corner and blend them into the middle to speed up the composting process.
We built a very nice compost bin a few years ago as a demonstration project using 48 cinder blocks placed in the same "C" shape. I alternated the side of the blocks to have a solid side with the holes so it would have strength and yet allow for plenty of air holes. On the top row we used the alternating holes to make little planter boxes where we grew flowers and some leaf lettuce in season.
I have seen a really nice compost bin in a friend's midtown backyard that was chicken wire put in a circle and another friend used a door hole blade to make little circles in an oversized plastic trash bin. I have seen compost made in sideways barrels, horse troughs that won't hold water and backyard cookers that had seen better days. All these types of homemade compost bins had two things in common; they worked just fine and didn't cost much money.
My favorite column on composting was one I wrote for the Tulsa Garden Center newsletter three or four years ago...
I was once a man who didn't contribute much to our land. Before I settled down, I probably sowed enough wild oats to qualify for a farm loan. But now that I have some roots and even a piece of land, I think differently. With my landowner responsibility comes a realization that I'm obsessed with my soil. While other gardeners lean toward flowers and vegetables that add beauty or salads to their day, I am most proud of dirt in my garden. OK. I said it. I am a dirt farmer. Before you come to conclusions, hear me out.
Try to step away from the garden as far as possible and see the big picture. In this case, my step is really far and my picture is from outer space. From space, the earth is a big rock, full of water. It has a little thin crust, in perspective, as thin as a peel of an apple. This crust, called soil, dictates our quality of life in that all the air we breathe and most of the food we eat comes from this little layer.
If we have one role as earthlings, it is to make more crust. When I build a new garden in a place that was just yard before, I have contributed to a more fertile planet. I can go out and buy some dirt, but the best way to make a new or better garden is with soil made with grass clippings from the very land the garden surrounds.
When we bag up grass clippings and throw them away, we have missed the chance to make a better world. I know it sounds harsh, but you could be a good environmentalist who recycles everything, has a low flow shower nozzle or even carpools everywhere they go, but if you throw away grass clippings, you have negated all that good. I could even go beyond our earth by the words of Henry David Thoreau who said, "Heaven is under our feet as well as over our heads".
I know that life is simpler when you plow around the stumps and you can make the argument that composting your own soil takes time and work. But ask a proud gardener about their soil and I bet you will find many who make it themselves with their own grass. There's not a better way to make a better earth.