Why hasn't Tulsa Transit joined forces with Google Maps?
I was on my iPhone trying to look up public transit routes on my maps application (go ahead, envy me) and found that there is no information available. After some research, I found that the reason for this is that currently, the only city in Oklahoma providing public transit route information on Google Maps is Norman, Ok. That's right folks, no Oklahoma City or Tulsa on Google Maps. It could increase ridership, raise awareness about Tulsa Transit, and among all other things, it's free to join the largest search engine on the Internet.
I know they are planning on adding an online route planner in the future, but someone should probably suggest adding their route information to google.
It would seem to make sense. Not only is it cheaper (using available technology) but it is also more readily accessible. One prime hindrance for me on mass transit is not knowing the routes: partly my fault for being lazy, partly the transit authority for not catering to their prime target (lazy Americans).
In many cities a route is plastered at each/most stops.
Zing!
After emailing Tulsa Transit about this, they replied with the following:
quote:
We truly appreciate your interest in our services and improving our
communications with the bus riding public. We have looked at the Google
option but it's not a solution we can quickly implement. We have plans
to purchase and implement software within 12-18 months that will allow
trip planning on our website, and this will also provide times for next
bus information at timing points for people on the go.
Again, we value your input.
Sincerely,
Tulsa Transit Staff
Not necessarily the answer I was looking for nor do I think they get the point. Google says they can have the service up and running within a matter of
weeks as opposed to
12-18 months. And it would not take away from what their website has to offer either. Along with providing their information on their maps service, Google provides links to the host website. What about the visitors to our city who know more about Google maps than the Tulsa Transit website? There are a variety of different scenarios where "Google maps > other alternatives." I provided a link in my email to Google Maps "add your agency" section, which should have easily clarified the timing issue. Apparently, they are not as "appreciative" as they say if they were not aware of the timing factor. I do not even think they "looked at the Google option."
See for yourself,
Source: http://maps.google.com/help/maps/transit/partners/index.html
quote:
Originally posted by TurismoDreamin
After emailing Tulsa Transit about this, they replied with the following:
quote:
We truly appreciate your interest in our services and improving our
communications with the bus riding public. We have looked at the Google
option but it's not a solution we can quickly implement. We have plans
to purchase and implement software within 12-18 months that will allow
trip planning on our website, and this will also provide times for next
bus information at timing points for people on the go.
Again, we value your input.
Sincerely,
Tulsa Transit Staff
Not necessarily the answer I was looking for nor do I think they get the point. Google says they can have the service up and running within a matter of weeks as opposed to 12-18 months. And it would not take away from what their website has to offer either. Along with providing their information on their maps service, Google provides links to the host website. What about the visitors to our city who know more about Google maps than the Tulsa Transit website? There are a variety of different scenarios where "Google maps > other alternatives." I provided a link in my email to Google Maps "add your agency" section, which should have easily clarified the timing issue. Apparently, they are not as "appreciative" as they say if they were not aware of the timing factor. I do not even think they "looked at the Google option."
See for yourself,
Source: http://maps.google.com/help/maps/transit/partners/index.html
To be fair, going by the response you got, the TTA site will have more functionality than Google, what with being able to tell you when the bus will actually be at your stop, as opposed to the time it's
scheduled to be there.
Of course, I could write the software to do this in a month or two.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this won't be done in 18 months or even 24 months.
Just to get this straight, it's good enough for:
California Bay area.
Burbank, Ca
LA area
San Diego
Sacramento
Miami Florida
Tampa
Atlanta
Chicaco
Lawrence, KS
Cape Cod
The Entire State of New Jersey
Minneapolis
Detroit
Baltimore
Ann Harbor
Kansas City
Las Vegas
Reno
New York City
Norman
Eugene, OR
Portland
Pittsburgh
Austin
Dallas
Richmond
Seattle
Green Bay
Milliwaukee
Vancouver
Ottawa
Montreal
Japan: Rail, domestic air and ferris
Taiwan
Perth Australia
The nation of Austrial
Bordeaux France
Genova and Torino Italy
Parts of Poland, Portugal, Russia
London area of the UK
and the nation of switzerland
to name just SOME of the places...
http://www.google.com/transit
But it isn't good enough for Tulsa Transit?
I don't buy it. Sorry. Even if the proprietary system is better, within a matter of weeks this system would be of use. Even when the proprietary system was in effect certainly this would compliment it.
yeah, i can't imagine anything better than google maps' service.
except some clunky, buggy website, that costs tens of thousands of dollars to implement, a PITA to maintain, that takes 3 minutes to load and won't work in any other browser except IE.
i did some minor google map hacking a few years ago and everything was done in xml. it was pretty simple. If I can wing it and quasi-figure it out, anyone with any experience/training & with any skill whatsoever sure can.
now this is funny:
http://www.tulsatransit.org/maps-schedules/
they're using the google maps GUI on this picture to 'view maps'...
WHAT?
When I travel to large cities like Chicago or New York, I typically choose lodging based on transportation options through google. If I can take a bus or train to my destination and eliminate a car rental, I will!
I suspect that most tech-savvy business people do the same when planning travel to trade-shows or events in a region. Or even when relocating themselves or employees.
It's simply a hassle to locate this information on proprietary systems. Many will simply assume that those services are not available in Tulsa because they are not on Google or Yahoo, or MSN.
I'm lazy. If I can't find a product or service on Google it doesn't exist.
I think more people would be prone to use Tulsa Transit for a multitude of reasons if it were an easier system to understand, and routes were viewable, and accessible through the #1 most used, most understood, user friendly, free information system in the whole WORLD.
It's not just convenience, it's MARKETING. Millions of people use Google Earth and Google Maps every day, and when they zoom in on a city with the "transportation" layer turned on, and see that Tulsa offers a number of transportation options, it positions us as a higher quality product.
When "Joe CEO" is considering the relocation of corporate assets and his research grunts start pulling up maps of several cities for the big PowerPoint presentation to the board of directors, you can't simply trust that they will do the leg-work necessary to pull proprietary map overlays from Tulsa Transit. No they are going to pull Google maps because they can highlight all of the elements a city has to offer on a single map for the presentation.
quote:
When I travel to large cities like Chicago or New York, I typically choose lodging based on transportation options through google. If I can take a bus or train to my destination and eliminate a car rental, I will!
That's exactly what I do. I did it this past summer when I went to San Diego. I located a hotel near a bus stop by using Google, then went to the San Diego transit website to print a timing sheet and buy my week pass. Super simple!
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by grahambino
now this is funny:
http://www.tulsatransit.org/maps-schedules/
they're using the google maps GUI on this picture to 'view maps'...
yes I noticed the irony in that too.
Not irony, Copyright infringement.
Google Maps is made available for your internal use only and may not be commercially redistributed, except that map data may be accessed and displayed by using the Google Maps API pursuant to the API terms and conditions.
More specifically section 10.2 of their copyright documents: It is a violation to copy, translate, modify, create a derivative work of, or publicly display any Content or any part thereof. . . Oops!
quote:
Originally posted by nathanm
quote:
Originally posted by TurismoDreamin
After emailing Tulsa Transit about this, they replied with the following:
quote:
We truly appreciate your interest in our services and improving our
communications with the bus riding public. We have looked at the Google
option but it's not a solution we can quickly implement. We have plans
to purchase and implement software within 12-18 months that will allow
trip planning on our website, and this will also provide times for next
bus information at timing points for people on the go.
Again, we value your input.
Sincerely,
Tulsa Transit Staff
Not necessarily the answer I was looking for nor do I think they get the point. Google says they can have the service up and running within a matter of weeks as opposed to 12-18 months. And it would not take away from what their website has to offer either. Along with providing their information on their maps service, Google provides links to the host website. What about the visitors to our city who know more about Google maps than the Tulsa Transit website? There are a variety of different scenarios where "Google maps > other alternatives." I provided a link in my email to Google Maps "add your agency" section, which should have easily clarified the timing issue. Apparently, they are not as "appreciative" as they say if they were not aware of the timing factor. I do not even think they "looked at the Google option."
See for yourself,
Source: http://maps.google.com/help/maps/transit/partners/index.html
To be fair, going by the response you got, the TTA site will have more functionality than Google, what with being able to tell you when the bus will actually be at your stop, as opposed to the time it's scheduled to be there.
Of course, I could write the software to do this in a month or two.
TTA being more functional, fair enough. But here's the thing...by joining Google, they will be providing a data feed to Google so that the information that TTA has is the same information Google will have. TTA will not simply provide a schedule. If that were the case, I would sign TTA up on Google for them. If there are changes to scheduling, it will be reflected on what you see on Google. Aside from that, if TTA's website is still more functional, Google still provides links to the host site so that it still would not hinder the TTA website.
You are a small, hate filled man. But sometimes that is just what's needed. Perhaps they will do it right this time and get on track with google transit.
Google Transit is sweet!
http://www.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&dirflg=r&ll=35.215290,-97.453071&spn=0.063552,0.082421
I'd take the bus if it was this easy.
Google maps upgraded to include transit layer:
http://i.gizmodo.com/5131305/google-maps-gets-a-public-transit-layer
quote:
Originally posted by BKDotCom
Google maps upgraded to include transit layer:
http://i.gizmodo.com/5131305/google-maps-gets-a-public-transit-layer
Sorry, still not good enough for Tulsa Transit!
Who's ever heard of this "London" place?!
What is wrong with the Tulsa MTTA? This should be a no brainer and would be cost prohibitive as well. It's almost as if there are a bunch of idiots running that place. Nowadays EVERYBODY uses google and it would increase visibility for the city. You know, as much as I like Tulsa, there are a LOT of things the city does that are just plain asinine.
https://tulsanow.org/wp/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=2154
Tulsa Transit now has a mobile site.
http://tulsatransit.mobi/ (http://tulsatransit.mobi/)
Bumping this thread to point out the other cities we're falling behind.
Quote
* Metropolitan Transit Authority of Harris County, Houston, TX
* VIA Metropolitan Transit in San Antonio, TX
* Utah Transit Authority, Salt Lake City, UT
* Metro St. Louis, St Louis, MO
* Foothill Transit, San Gabriel Valley, CA
* Riverside Transit, Riverside, CA
* Charlotte Area Transit System, Charlotte, NC
* Pinella Suncoast Transit Authority, St. Petersburg, FL
http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2009/06/dump-pump-with-new-transit-agencies-in.html
Quote from: sgrizzle on December 03, 2008, 08:49:58 PM
I know they are planning on adding an online route planner in the future, but someone should probably suggest adding their route information to google.
This online route planner has finally appeared on tulsatransit.org. Still no google maps integration.
Quote from: TheTed on June 04, 2012, 12:22:16 PM
This online route planner has finally appeared on tulsatransit.org. Still no google maps integration.
This is all I get:
Quote
The itinerary search timed-out.
Please try modifying your request, or see HELP for search tips on input.
If you need assistance, please contact MTTA Call Center at 918-582-2100. The call center hours are Monday- Friday 4:30am to 9:00 pm and on Saturday 5:00am to 9:00pm.
Gads I must have slept though that one. Tulsa has a transit system? There I thought those were traveling sign boards that one could rent the space on.
Still at times I thought those painted box cars were the reincarnation of the hippies.
In the meanwhile they should be painted all of one neutral color where the citizen could see and recognize it as a city bus as it approaches which would make them more aware that a transit system was in place. They see enough billboards as they go down any major street. Advertise the city with a standard color, not that of a private ventures.
Quote from: shadows on June 07, 2012, 09:28:21 PM
Advertise the city with a standard color, not that of a private ventures.
Better yet, advertise the path of the vehicles with steel rails.
:D
Quote from: Red Arrow on June 07, 2012, 09:31:48 PM
Better yet, advertise the path of the vehicles with steel rails.
I remember the trolley quite well but the coming of the GM bus made the trolley obsolete as the city decentralized as was predicted to happen after WWll. In the decentralization the division of the office worker demanding more access drove the retailers out of the down town only to establish a series of grids of shopping centers which made it impossible to maintain a rail system. Previously Tulsans were too busy cheating the Indians out of the minerals in the lands they were driven as cattle on, to start an underground rail system of five segments two miles long.
Tulsa is number one in hindsight over foresight. Now it is going to increase the out of pocket taxes on its citizens and give it to the floundering Corporate America who will bleed the citizens until they run out of money with the threat "if you don't we'll just leave".
Now the Indian casinos are scalping the paleface's gods.
Quote from: shadows on June 07, 2012, 10:20:05 PM
I remember the trolley quite well but the coming of the GM bus made the trolley obsolete as the city decentralized as was predicted to happen after WWll.
Tulsa was one of the earlier systems to succumb to GM, Firestone, and Standard Oil. Mid 30s I believe. The Sand Springs Trolley ran until the 50s from what I've read. I think Heiron remembers some trolleys but I can't find any other evidence of trolleys in Tulsa beyond what I just mentioned.
The automobile companies bought the trolley manufacturers and related entities. Next thing you know, no more trolleys! Interesting how that works.
Quote from: rdj on June 08, 2012, 10:27:44 AM
The automobile companies bought the trolley manufacturers and related entities. Next thing you know, no more trolleys! Interesting how that works.
Mostly what happened was the GM, Firestone, and Standard Oil created a bus company (National City Bus, I think) that bought up the trolley operating companies and then substituted buses. The trolley manufacturers had problems since cities weren't buying trolleys. Brill (Philadelphia, PA) bought up a bunch of other trolley manufacturers and eventually made some buses too. St Louis Car Co (trolley car, not automobile) made trolleys to the very late 40s and maybe a few years into the 50s. Pullman made some PCC trolleys which would have been 30s and 40s mostly.
I'll have to re-check but I don't believe the automobile companies bought the major trolley manufacturing companies. They may have bought up a few of the smaller ones.
Quote from: Red Arrow on June 07, 2012, 10:34:06 PM
Tulsa was one of the earlier systems to succumb to GM, Firestone, and Standard Oil. Mid 30s I believe. The Sand Springs Trolley ran until the 50s from what I've read. I think Heiron remembers some trolleys but I can't find any other evidence of trolleys in Tulsa beyond what I just mentioned.
The east side signs of the city trolley are on 5th street west of Lewis where the street is widened for the trolley to stand, waiting the return secluded run to down town. The trolley was in operation until latter part of the 30’s. running down fifth to down town. When the system was dismantled a bus system was established by a man name “Browning”. (Spelling ?) A system using trolleys frames on rubber tires was established but it never got off the ground. Seems it cost me a nickel to ride the trolley and we always got a transfer. The SS trolley had larger vehicles and the conductors on the trolleys would negotiate with the children on the amount of money they had which kept them from pulling the wan off the overhead electoral wire.
Quote from: shadows on June 07, 2012, 09:28:21 PM
Gads I must have slept though that one. Tulsa has a transit system? There I thought those were traveling sign boards that one could rent the space on.
Still at times I thought those painted box cars were the reincarnation of the hippies.
In the meanwhile they should be painted all of one neutral color where the citizen could see and recognize it as a city bus as it approaches which would make them more aware that a transit system was in place. They see enough billboards as they go down any major street. Advertise the city with a standard color, not that of a private ventures.
Most people recognize it as a bus do to the fact it's a giant f-ing bus, not color.
Quote from: Red Arrow on June 08, 2012, 12:34:19 PM
Mostly what happened was the GM, Firestone, and Standard Oil created a bus company (National City Bus, I think) that bought up the trolley operating companies and then substituted buses. The trolley manufacturers had problems since cities weren't buying trolleys. Brill (Philadelphia, PA) bought up a bunch of other trolley manufacturers and eventually made some buses too. St Louis Car Co (trolley car, not automobile) made trolleys to the very late 40s and maybe a few years into the 50s. Pullman made some PCC trolleys which would have been 30s and 40s mostly.
I'll have to re-check but I don't believe the automobile companies bought the major trolley manufacturing companies. They may have bought up a few of the smaller ones.
That's interesting to look back and see why and how the trolley systems disappeared. I believe that GM bought out the locomotive manufacturers to indirectly control the growth and usage of rail tracks. I don't remember if they bought the trolley manufacturers.
Quote from: shadows on June 07, 2012, 09:28:21 PM
Gads I must have slept though that one. Tulsa has a transit system? There I thought those were traveling sign boards that one could rent the space on.
Still at times I thought those painted box cars were the reincarnation of the hippies.
In the meanwhile they should be painted all of one neutral color where the citizen could see and recognize it as a city bus as it approaches which would make them more aware that a transit system was in place. They see enough billboards as they go down any major street. Advertise the city with a standard color, not that of a private ventures.
As usual, if you wade through Shadow's Native American anger, language difficulties and general spin you find a kernel of insight.
I believe you are right about the design and signage of our transit buses. They really should be one easily recognizable color and style. The one and only reason for the buses being plastered or wrapped with advertising is to contribute to poor revenue generation. That started on our buses back in the early eighties. Its like when the railroads gave up on passenger service and went with the revenue from freight where they had a natural advantage in cost over trucking. But its not to create an image for the city or serve the passenger. Many buses are quite busy because they serve particular hourly worker's needs just like the old trolleys did. Many more travel around with a fake bike on the front, few passengers, on money losing routes, simply to justify advertising fees. Its the formula for a system that doubts the consumer demand is really there imo.
If we were to concentrate on making them a ubiquitous presence on the streets it would contribute to the impression that they are convenient, go where the consumer needs to go and reliable. There is a reason that executive Limo's are usually all white or all black and don't have advertising wraps on them. Easily recognizable and focussed on serving a particular segment.
It would take a commitment to service and image enhancement over revenue production but it doesn't have to be a losing proposition. One part of the fleet might be dedicated to the most lucrative advertising routes but retain the image by using the same color. I have some pics somewhere of NY and Chicago buses that followed that view. Their buses were smaller, more comfortable and quite unique using low riding chassis, front wheel drive and axles located at the very front and back of the body to enhance the cabin.
From:
"When Oklahoma Took the Trolley " by Allison Chandler and Stephen D. Maguire
p136 writing about the Tulsa Street Railway
"In 1929, the assets of the company were sold for a paltry $233,334 to a group of investors which formed the United Service Co. In 1933 United Service took over the remaining city trackage of the Oklahoma Union Railway Co. (formerly the Oklahoma Union Traction). Except for the Sand Springs line, the city now had a unified transit network, but the Great Depression cut riding further and no financial remedy seemed possible."
"Finally on February 5, 1936, the company was sold at auction to National City Lines, a new national holding company being formed by the five Fitzgerald brothers, Roy, Edward, John, Ralph and Kent, of Minnesota, to buy up derelict local trolley lines as cheaply as possible and convert them to bus systems.
It was a new idea, and Tulsa was one of the first cities where it was tried. The Fitzgerald brothers had powerful backing from some of their major suppliers, such as Yellow Coach (later merged with General Motors) and the tire manufacturers. They were looking for cities with aging streetcars and life-expired tracks where the cost of fleet renewal with motor buses would be the cheapest solution. Of course, Yellow Coach would supply the buses, which would run on tires made by the same tire companies which invested in NCL.
NCL formed a local subsidiary, Tulsa City Lines, to take over operations effective the following day, February 6, 1936. Within hours TCL had enough buses on the streets to take over all operations, and the last city streetcar made its run up and down Main Street late that night."
The Sand Springs RR ran trolleys into the mid 50s.
Edit: typos
So tulsa called our infrastructure to deteriorate and then replaced it with the cheapest alternative? Some things never change
Quote from: cannon_fodder on June 10, 2012, 12:25:14 PM
So tulsa called our infrastructure to deteriorate and then replaced it with the cheapest alternative? Some things never change
It wasn't just Tulsa. It was happening all over the country. Most of the trolley companies were privately owned. They paid franchise fees to cities, had to maintain not only the tracks and overhead power but frequently had to maintain the rest of the road their tracks ran in for their major competition, cars and buses. Often the cities set the price of the fares. There were a lot of reasons trolley companies were not profitable. Sometimes it was because there just wasn't enough demand for the trolleys along a route. When the tracks became rough riding the wood seats were even less comfortable. Buses were newer. They had more comfortable seats and depending on how well the trolley companies maintained the roads, provided a smoother ride. The bus companies probably still had to pay franchise fees but they didn't have to maintain the roads.
The PCC car was developed in an effort to compete with buses. It was modern (1930s), rode a lot nicer than the older cars and had comfortable seats. They were built primarily by the Pullman Co. and by St. Louis Car Co. Brill Co. had some design disagreements didn't want to pay the royalties to the Electric Railway President's Conference Committee so Brill designed their own car but it met limited success. The PCC cars were largely successful where trolley systems were kept. Boston, Philadelphia, Kansas City, Pittsburgh, and Toronto are the ones I remember reading about. There were PCC type cars built all over the world under license. Many of those trolleys ran for 30 or 40 years. They are now frequently in demand as rebuilds for Heritage Trolley lines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCC_streetcar
Tulsa Transit routes now integrated on Google Maps.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.aspx/City_bus_routes_now_on_Google_Maps/20130717_11_0_Tulsan575694
Quote from: Hoss on July 17, 2013, 03:08:26 PM
Tulsa Transit routes now integrated on Google Maps.
No thanks to Tulsa Transit. This was done completely on the spare time and at no charge by a local web developer.
Quote from: BKDotCom on July 17, 2013, 06:35:33 PM
No thanks to Tulsa Transit. This was done completely on the spare time and at no charge by a local web developer.
Developers, and I have it on good authority that there was some cost. Pizza and beer.
Quote from: sgrizzle on July 18, 2013, 07:31:15 AM
Developers, and I have it on good authority that there was some cost. Pizza and beer.
I hope it was good beer and not Millercoorsbud Lite.
:D
Tulsa Web Devs (http://tulsawebdevs.org/) is giving all the credit to John Whitlock (https://twitter.com/jwhitlock)
(http://i.imgur.com/fVUcOzi.png) (http://imgur.com/fVUcOzi)
and here's a reddit thread (http://www.reddit.com/r/tulsa/comments/1ifw7g/thanks_mainly_to_the_efforts_of_a_single_tulsan/)
Looks like there's going to be a segment on today's "The List (http://www.thelistshow.tv/)" (KJRH)
No if only the transit time would show up as less than the walk time.
Quote from: custosnox on July 19, 2013, 10:07:12 AM
No if only the transit time would show up as less than the walk time.
You want it to be accurate don't you? It's Tulsa Transit, not Tulsa
Rapid Transit.
Quote from: swake on July 19, 2013, 10:11:41 AM
You want it to be accurate don't you? It's Tulsa Transit, not Tulsa Rapid Transit.
And they wonder why no one rides it.