with the planning of the "motivational" event at the BOK Center this morning.
Who in their right mind plans such an event for 8am? You know....rush hour. Our offices are still mostly empty this morning, not because people are sick, but because they have been calling to say they are stuck in traffic.
I personally sat next to our parking garage for 15 minutes this morning. Oh sure I could see the entrance, but it took me 15 minutes to make it to it and that was at 7:15 this morning!
The amount of horn honking, screaming and brakes I can hear slamming on from my office window is amazing.
Should've used this opportunity to hang signs
"If you lived downtown you'd be at work by now".
Downtown looks like an actual, legitimate city right now. There's traffic congestion on a couple of streets.
I laughed as I drove past all the congestion and into my spot at my apartment.
What is the motivational event?
I thought you were going to comment on the QT event Saturday evening. It was surreal. The opposite of what you describe this morning downtown. Like a killer fog moved in and stopped everything but the Hanson's and their followers.
Great fireworks though.
Is it too late to build parking at the Arena and the New Stadium? And plan for traffic flow?
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Is it too late to build parking at the Arena and the New Stadium? And plan for traffic flow?
As has been indicated a million times before, parking dedicated solely to the arena, unless you build it subterranean, isn't the answer, and even then you'd have to dig 100 feet below the groud.
And within 5 blocks of the arena are 7000 parking spots.
Granted this event was a charliefox because it was an event planned during the day when parking is at a premium. They said they were going to have six locations people could shuttle from, but they didn't do a very good job of conveying that information.
Since parking after CBD work hours has been pretty much a nonissue, I'll chalk this up to poor communications between the arena personnel and downtown tenants.
Ask the people that walked through the rain to the cowboy concert if they would have preferred dedicated parking near the arena.
Think about where you decide to go when you travel around Tulsa. My decisions are largely based on availability of close by, convenient and free parking.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Ask the people that walked through the rain to the cowboy concert if they would have preferred dedicated parking near the arena.
Think about where you decide to go when you travel around Tulsa. My decisions are largely based on availability of close by, convenient and free parking.
I've been to MANY venues around the country in inclement weather where I've had to park away from the arena and (oh my god say it now) had to walk a couple of blocks to the arena. Answer to that? UMBRELLA
And free parking is a pipe dream. Doesn't happen in most downtowns. OKC? Nope. Dallas? Nope. St. Louis? Nope.
Tulsa actually has a plethora of free parking spaces if you've been downtown enough to know where to look.
This is a growing process because 90 percent of Tulsans don't know how to travel downtown. I've been lucky enough that I do.
quote:
Originally posted by HometownThink about where you decide to go when you travel around Tulsa. My decisions are largely based on availability of close by, convenient and free parking.
Have fun in the sticks.
People in this city are so friggin spoiled lol. Today would have likely been called "normal" for most places. But I think its actually great that we are seeing some traffic. Hopefully the answer wont be found in more parking garages but in other transit options and with people getting used to using those options. Indeed the shuttles probably could have been advertised better, but hopefully it will also be the case that people will get in the habit of using a shuttle, or "trolley" or perhaps in the future the downtown "starter line" servicing parking at OSU Tulsa, Fin-Tube and the West Bank.
Its just something new for Tulsa and Tulsans to get used to. I think its a hopeful and good sign. Hope to see more and more days where people will be looking for other parking/transportation options, and I hope we satisfy those desires by going down a good development and transportation strategy path, versus a bad one which imo would be spending money on building more parking garages.
Wonder if they had cheesy xeroxed paper signs on all the entrances . . .
I just got back from lunch and it was really nice to see our downtown sidewalks bustling with people. I actually had to stop on the sidewalk while people in front of me stopped to look at the buildings...felt like I was surrounded by tourists. Fun.
When I call Tulsa a developer's dream it's because of all those surface parking lots downtown that are ripe for development. Hopefully many of the existing parking lots will be developed with buildings.
There is nothing inherently sinful about parking. Parking can be developed in such a way that it makes good use of space and is not an eyesore.
Tulsa seems to have become mildly schizophrenic on this subject. We have retail developments with too much parking and an intelligentsia that has decided building large public facilities downtown without parking is the way to go.
I wouldn't want to take a risk this big with downtown.
I would love it if Tulsans would bus downtown for a big event. I would love it Tulsa was peopled by liberals and with good paying jobs.
Lord knows we walked all over the place in San Francisco. San Franciscans have some well developed thighs.
But this is Tulsa where we all want to park next to the front door. Instead of hoping people will change I am more inclined to plan for them not changing.
quote:
Originally posted by OurTulsa
I just got back from lunch and it was really nice to see our downtown sidewalks bustling with people. I actually had to stop on the sidewalk while people in front of me stopped to look at the buildings...felt like I was surrounded by tourists. Fun.
Pretty nice, must've emptied out the 'burbs traffic was nice around lunch time mid-city and no waiting at restaurants....LOL!
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I would love it if Tulsans would bus downtown for a big event.
I did bus downtown today - as part of my normal commute. Apparently, there was no reroute for the busses. My fellow passengers and I got off at 15th and Denver and walked downtown once it was clear that it would take the bus another hour to make it up the hill.
In more practiced cities, the busses would have had reroutes and/or dedicated lanes in. The bus station being next to the arena was supposed to be a mutually beneficial situational relationship ... wasn't it?
quote:
Originally posted by dayzella
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I would love it if Tulsans would bus downtown for a big event.
I did bus downtown today - as part of my normal commute. Apparently, there was no reroute for the busses. My fellow passengers and I got off at 15th and Denver and walked downtown once it was clear that it would take the bus another hour to make it up the hill.
In more practiced cities, the busses would have had reroutes and/or dedicated lanes in. The bus station being next to the arena was supposed to be a mutually beneficial situational relationship ... wasn't it?
I bet this is the last time they have a CF like this. They are learning and I'm sure there will be meetings and better PR next time around for shuttles for weekday events at BOKC.
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
Should've used this opportunity to hang signs
"If you lived downtown you'd be at work by now".
True...True!!!
They should have just used the Cityplex parking lot and shuttled folks like they do for other DT events.
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
They should have just used the Cityplex parking lot and shuttled folks like they do for other DT events.
I think they might have had like six places to shuttle from, the problem is that it wasn't communicated very efficiently.
Hopefully this is one of those deals where they take from it and learn.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
They should have just used the Cityplex parking lot and shuttled folks like they do for other DT events.
I think they might have had like six places to shuttle from, the problem is that it wasn't communicated very efficiently.
Hopefully this is one of those deals where they take from it and learn.
Paople don't like leaving their vehicle many miles away from where they are going if there is a chance to be closer. Also if you shuttle people in , doesn't this go against the idea the leaders have of having people walk downtown.
I wouldn't park at another place as there is no security and cars tend to get broken into with such an oppurtunity like that...
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
They should have just used the Cityplex parking lot and shuttled folks like they do for other DT events.
I think they might have had like six places to shuttle from, the problem is that it wasn't communicated very efficiently.
Hopefully this is one of those deals where they take from it and learn.
Paople don't like leaving their vehicle many miles away from where they are going if there is a chance to be closer. Also if you shuttle people in , doesn't this go against the idea the leaders have of having people walk downtown.
I wouldn't park at another place as there is no security and cars tend to get broken into with such an oppurtunity like that...
This is exactly the reason why people won't change to mass transit in this city.
I went to DC a couple of years ago; stayed at a hotel in Northern VA, rented a car, drove that car to a METRO station, parked it in the garage, took the METRO into DC and took it back.
Guess what?
Thousands of people had no problem leaving their car MILES away from where they work or were attending an event.
And are you sure there was no security at these remote locations? I would think that wouldn't be too wise given that the event planners themselves were advising doing this.
But that's just me.
quote:
Originally posted by Townsend
Should've used this opportunity to hang signs
"If you lived downtown you'd be at work by now".
Haha! So true. I live downtown and didn't realize the event was this morning. When I left for work around 7:15, it was already bad. I couldn't believe all the traffic heading in....it really was like I was in another city. :)
I can't foresee another arena event that'll bring many people downtown during business hours. The C-USA tournament will happen during work hours, but attendance will be sparse during the daytime sessions.
If folks would stick to downtown's many extra-wide one way streets we wouldn't have significant traffic flow issues. Those streets are never anywhere near capacity. Driving up Denver during any type of event is not real smart.
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
They should have just used the Cityplex parking lot and shuttled folks like they do for other DT events.
I think they might have had like six places to shuttle from, the problem is that it wasn't communicated very efficiently.
Hopefully this is one of those deals where they take from it and learn.
Paople don't like leaving their vehicle many miles away from where they are going if there is a chance to be closer. Also if you shuttle people in , doesn't this go against the idea the leaders have of having people walk downtown.
I wouldn't park at another place as there is no security and cars tend to get broken into with such an oppurtunity like that...
One reason to drive a total POS, no one wants to break into it. [}:)]
I don't recall ever seeing much in the way of a patrolled security for downtown parking either. I think people will realize the parking and traffic hassles and will take shuttles with proper notice next time.
People learned their lesson on lack of parking with events at Riverwest Festival Park and take advantage of the Fairground shuttles rather than trying to clog up the area around the festival grounds. Looked like the shuttles were doing brisk business up and down 15th St. all day and night this last Saturday for the QT show.
Anyone hear estimates on the crowd numbers?
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
I can't foresee another arena event that'll bring many people downtown during business hours. The C-USA tournament will happen during work hours, but attendance will be sparse during the daytime sessions.
If folks would stick to downtown's many extra-wide one way streets we wouldn't have significant traffic flow issues. Those streets are never anywhere near capacity. Driving up Denver during any type of event is not real smart.
7th Street was backed up from Denver to as far as the eye could see.
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
I can't foresee another arena event that'll bring many people downtown during business hours. The C-USA tournament will happen during work hours, but attendance will be sparse during the daytime sessions.
If folks would stick to downtown's many extra-wide one way streets we wouldn't have significant traffic flow issues. Those streets are never anywhere near capacity. Driving up Denver during any type of event is not real smart.
7th Street was backed up from Denver to as far as the eye could see.
I drove the length of both 7th and 8th streets early this morning during the time Denver was packed. No delays at all on 7th/8th except for all the morons on Denver blocking 7th and 8th.
I find it very difficult to believe that any of those downtown one ways was packed. They're like 15% full even during a normal rush hour. The lights are timed. They're as close as you can get to an expressway in terms of efficiency in moving lots of cars.
so what I want to know is, who is at fault, and when are they getting fired? I don't want to hear any bull**** about "growing pains" or "working the kinks out" They had months notice on this.
Da mare is directly responsible for this debacle. She has authority to plan for this kind of crap. Thank goodness there was no major medical emergencies in the fubar parts of downtown. The planning negligence exposed the city to liability today.
What is even MORE insulting is putting the downtown workers in direct competition for parking with attendees. I can just imagine how the conversation went:
"Hi, we are Zig Zigler motivational speaker series and we will be in your region late Sept, but we can only visit your podunk town on a Monday instead of a weekend"
Mare's office: "Ok, but we need you to start at 8 because if all of the naysayers get downtown at 9 and find all of the good parking taken they will make us look bad"
Ziglar: "No problem! In fact we will do one better, we will go until 4:45 so we can unleash our 18000 motivated individuals on your pissed off workforce for rush hour traffic"
Mare's office: "EXCELLENT!"
Downtown Tulsa evening rush hour < Downtown Enid evening rush hour
This was absolutely insane. I am usually to work at 6:45am. I planned to get there at 6:30 am...instead I got there at 6:50 because I was stuck in traffic for 20 mins within 3 blocks of work. On top of that anyone arriving downtown just 10 minutes after me, was stuck in traffic for 55 mins to an hour.
Then the BOK General Manager on the news said we didn't need to change anything because these events are "rare"
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
quote:
Originally posted by wavoka
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
I can't foresee another arena event that'll bring many people downtown during business hours. The C-USA tournament will happen during work hours, but attendance will be sparse during the daytime sessions.
If folks would stick to downtown's many extra-wide one way streets we wouldn't have significant traffic flow issues. Those streets are never anywhere near capacity. Driving up Denver during any type of event is not real smart.
7th Street was backed up from Denver to as far as the eye could see.
I drove the length of both 7th and 8th streets early this morning during the time Denver was packed. No delays at all on 7th/8th except for all the morons on Denver blocking 7th and 8th.
I find it very difficult to believe that any of those downtown one ways was packed. They're like 15% full even during a normal rush hour. The lights are timed. They're as close as you can get to an expressway in terms of efficiency in moving lots of cars.
I was on 7th at 7:15 this morning and sat within 50 feet of the entrance of our parking garage for 15 minutes. By the time I made it into my office it was 7:39.
quote:
Originally posted by OUGrad05
This was absolutely insane. I am usually to work at 6:45am. I planned to get there at 6:30 am...instead I got there at 6:50 because I was stuck in traffic for 20 mins within 3 blocks of work. On top of that anyone arriving downtown just 10 minutes after me, was stuck in traffic for 55 mins to an hour.
Then the BOK General Manager on the news said we didn't need to change anything because these events are "rare"
sounds like the firing needs to start there. rare? What about the sold out event there tomorrow that gets out at 4? Rare? Those ****ers would sell us out and book one every work day of the week if offered the chance.
even in the worst downtown Houston traffic, people move more than 50 feet an hour.
someone ****ed up, and they ****ed up big. and that person needs to go back to Slick OK or whatever bum**** place they came from, because they obviously can't plan for ****.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by OUGrad05
This was absolutely insane. I am usually to work at 6:45am. I planned to get there at 6:30 am...instead I got there at 6:50 because I was stuck in traffic for 20 mins within 3 blocks of work. On top of that anyone arriving downtown just 10 minutes after me, was stuck in traffic for 55 mins to an hour.
Then the BOK General Manager on the news said we didn't need to change anything because these events are "rare"
sounds like the firing needs to start there. rare? What about the sold out event there tomorrow that gets out at 4? Rare? Those ****ers would sell us out and book one every work day of the week if offered the chance.
The horror.
I think we shouldn't book anything for the new arena because it might inconvenience someone.
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by OUGrad05
This was absolutely insane. I am usually to work at 6:45am. I planned to get there at 6:30 am...instead I got there at 6:50 because I was stuck in traffic for 20 mins within 3 blocks of work. On top of that anyone arriving downtown just 10 minutes after me, was stuck in traffic for 55 mins to an hour.
Then the BOK General Manager on the news said we didn't need to change anything because these events are "rare"
sounds like the firing needs to start there. rare? What about the sold out event there tomorrow that gets out at 4? Rare? Those ****ers would sell us out and book one every work day of the week if offered the chance.
The horror.
I think we shouldn't book anything for the new arena because it might inconvenience someone.
try several thousand someones....who are not interested in going to see a bunch of blowhards but rather need to get to work because millions on welfare depend on them.
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by OUGrad05
This was absolutely insane. I am usually to work at 6:45am. I planned to get there at 6:30 am...instead I got there at 6:50 because I was stuck in traffic for 20 mins within 3 blocks of work. On top of that anyone arriving downtown just 10 minutes after me, was stuck in traffic for 55 mins to an hour.
Then the BOK General Manager on the news said we didn't need to change anything because these events are "rare"
sounds like the firing needs to start there. rare? What about the sold out event there tomorrow that gets out at 4? Rare? Those ****ers would sell us out and book one every work day of the week if offered the chance.
The horror.
I think we shouldn't book anything for the new arena because it might inconvenience someone.
I guess those of us that work downtown and spend our money on a regular basis down there are irrelevant now that we have the big arena.
How about they fix the parking situation? The solution here isn't a tough one, put in parking north and west of the arena. Allow those that have and PAY for parking passes downtown to have reserved spots so those who do not get to work at 6:45 am have a place to park...or are those of us that actually care about and invest our time and money downtown no longer important?
I'm glad the arena is there and I think if Tulsa gets their **** together the arena and ballpark are going to bring businesses downtown which I will benefit from but that doesn't mean we ignore the substantial problems we currently face downtown.
quote:
Originally posted by OUGrad05
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by OUGrad05
This was absolutely insane. I am usually to work at 6:45am. I planned to get there at 6:30 am...instead I got there at 6:50 because I was stuck in traffic for 20 mins within 3 blocks of work. On top of that anyone arriving downtown just 10 minutes after me, was stuck in traffic for 55 mins to an hour.
Then the BOK General Manager on the news said we didn't need to change anything because these events are "rare"
sounds like the firing needs to start there. rare? What about the sold out event there tomorrow that gets out at 4? Rare? Those ****ers would sell us out and book one every work day of the week if offered the chance.
The horror.
I think we shouldn't book anything for the new arena because it might inconvenience someone.
I guess those of us that work downtown and spend our money on a regular basis down there are irrelevant now that we have the big arena.
How about they fix the parking situation? The solution here isn't a tough one, put in parking north and west of the arena. Allow those that have and PAY for parking passes downtown to have reserved spots so those who do not get to work at 6:45 am have a place to park...or are those of us that actually care about and invest our time and money downtown no longer important?
I'm glad the arena is there and I think if Tulsa gets their **** together the arena and ballpark are going to bring businesses downtown which I will benefit from but that doesn't mean we ignore the substantial problems we currently face downtown.
This is gonna happen once a year, if that. There's no reason to spend a bunch of money and build a bunch of parking that's only needed once a year. 364 days a year downtown has way more parking than it needs. Building more parking isn't the answer.
Lots of folks weren't prepared today.
Hopefully some things will happen next time:
Event goers will take the shuttles.
Downtown workers will make plans when this event returns. Take the bus. Take a cab. Take the shuttle that the event goers take.
The issue with your space being given away is between you and your parking company.
You all are just now realizing this areama debacle was a huge planning failure from the beggining?
Ya gotta keep up with the Jonses!
TulsaNow's Itinerant Exorcism Servicer
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
Downtown workers will make plans when this event returns. Take the bus. Take a cab. Take the shuttle that the event goers take.
The issue with your space being given away is between you and your parking company.
Why should Tulsa'a bread and butter workers have to make special arrangements? Let the event planners arrange for transportation from remote lots.
I agree that the parking companys need to keep paid-for spaces for the payer.
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
quote:
Originally posted by OUGrad05
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by OUGrad05
This was absolutely insane. I am usually to work at 6:45am. I planned to get there at 6:30 am...instead I got there at 6:50 because I was stuck in traffic for 20 mins within 3 blocks of work. On top of that anyone arriving downtown just 10 minutes after me, was stuck in traffic for 55 mins to an hour.
Then the BOK General Manager on the news said we didn't need to change anything because these events are "rare"
sounds like the firing needs to start there. rare? What about the sold out event there tomorrow that gets out at 4? Rare? Those ****ers would sell us out and book one every work day of the week if offered the chance.
The horror.
I think we shouldn't book anything for the new arena because it might inconvenience someone.
I guess those of us that work downtown and spend our money on a regular basis down there are irrelevant now that we have the big arena.
How about they fix the parking situation? The solution here isn't a tough one, put in parking north and west of the arena. Allow those that have and PAY for parking passes downtown to have reserved spots so those who do not get to work at 6:45 am have a place to park...or are those of us that actually care about and invest our time and money downtown no longer important?
I'm glad the arena is there and I think if Tulsa gets their **** together the arena and ballpark are going to bring businesses downtown which I will benefit from but that doesn't mean we ignore the substantial problems we currently face downtown.
This is gonna happen once a year, if that. There's no reason to spend a bunch of money and build a bunch of parking that's only needed once a year. 364 days a year downtown has way more parking than it needs. Building more parking isn't the answer.
Lots of folks weren't prepared today.
Hopefully some things will happen next time:
Event goers will take the shuttles.
Downtown workers will make plans when this event returns. Take the bus. Take a cab. Take the shuttle that the event goers take.
The issue with your space being given away is between you and your parking company.
Once a year? Ummm...riiiight....
Considering if you count today and whats on the schedule for the end of the year we have 4...once a year seems to be a bit of an understatement.
They need more parking instead of saying screw you to all of us that work down there.
I want the arena to work and I want them to hold daytime events to be honest. Why? Because in the long run if they fix the problems it provides more amenities for me to enjoy each and every day. But that doesn't mean they get to **** all over those of us who are down there every day and it doesn't mean they get a pass on their mistakes...
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
Downtown workers will make plans when this event returns. Take the bus. Take a cab. Take the shuttle that the event goers take.
The issue with your space being given away is between you and your parking company.
Why should Tulsa'a bread and butter workers have to make special arrangements? Let the event planners arrange for transportation from remote lots.
I agree that the parking companys need to keep paid-for spaces for the payer.
Tulsa's workers are responsible for getting themselves to work. Just like workers in major cities respond to traffic/congestion/lack of parking by finding other ways of getting to work, Tulsans will have to get to work despite the traffic.
If people are gonna get their panties in a wad this much over a little congestion, maybe they should just take a vacation day on the rare occasion that a major arena event happens during a workday.
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
quote:
Originally posted by Red Arrow
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
Downtown workers will make plans when this event returns. Take the bus. Take a cab. Take the shuttle that the event goers take.
The issue with your space being given away is between you and your parking company.
Why should Tulsa'a bread and butter workers have to make special arrangements? Let the event planners arrange for transportation from remote lots.
I agree that the parking companys need to keep paid-for spaces for the payer.
Tulsa's workers are responsible for getting themselves to work. Just like workers in major cities respond to traffic/congestion/lack of parking by finding other ways of getting to work, Tulsans will have to get to work despite the traffic.
If people are gonna get their panties in a wad this much over a little congestion, maybe they should just take a vacation day on the rare occasion that a major arena event happens during a workday.
A little congestion? 2 people I work with turned around and went home after sitting in traffic for over an hour, 1 sat in traffic on the BA within site of the Denver exit for over and hour and most people who arrive before 8am didn't show until 9am or after.
The planning for this was horrible. Maybe the shuttles would help, but someone better make it known that they exist. In my opinion the people responsible did a piss poor job of planning this event and getting the word out to let people know how they could get to the arena and where to park or catch a ride.
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
Tulsa's workers are responsible for getting themselves to work. Just like workers in major cities respond to traffic/congestion/lack of parking by finding other ways of getting to work, Tulsans will have to get to work despite the traffic.
[/quote]
Workers in major cities have to deal with congestion and lack of parking every day. They also have more and better options than many Tulsans for getting to work.
Just another reason I did not include downtown Tulsa the last time I was looking for a job.
LOL funny! This cracks me up.
They should have taken the light rail. Problem solved.
quote:
Originally posted by pfox
They should have taken the light rail. Problem solved.
Just what Tulsa needs, a light rail mafia (//%22http://www.radioactivecommunistzombies.com/radioactive_communist_zom/2007/07/the-light-rail-.html%22) like Portland's. Kathy Taylor can be Tulsa's Neil Goldschmidt. She's already shown a predisposition to engage in sweetheart deals for her cronies a la the Ballpark Trust, the TDA/Novus homes screw job and the BOK/Great Plains loan repayment.
I want BOK Arena busy all the time all year.
Distant remote lots with shuttles outside of downtown proper is not a viable solution. Dedicated parking and traffic flow changes are needed to make this work.
Now imagine adding ball park traffic.
You are going to lose regulars that can't find their regular parking spots. You are going to anger and inconvenience downtown workers. You are going to see an increase in the cost to park downtown.
It's not the end of the world, we just need to finish what we started. There are places close by that would work for Arena and Ball Park parking.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I want BOK Arena busy all the time all year.
Distant remote lots with shuttles outside of downtown proper is not a viable solution. Dedicated parking and traffic flow changes are needed to make this work.
Now imagine adding ball park traffic.
You are going to lose regulars that can't find their regular parking spots. You are going to anger and inconvenience downtown workers. You are going to see an increase in the cost to park downtown.
It's not the end of the world, we just need to finish what we started. There are places close by that would work for Arena and Ball Park parking.
I guess I'd be pretty raw too if I'd sat in traffic for an hour once I got to downtown.
Why demolish more buildings, blight more downtown landscape, and lower property values with more parking lots to service several daytime events every year?
There's thousands of parking spaces at Expo Square (even with fair set up this week they still would have had plenty of space) and it's a direct shot up 15th for the shuttles to the BA and into downtown.
The former Eastland Mall has plenty of spaces, as does the Mabee Center. IOW- we really don't need more idle parking spots.
This is a simple solution. BOKC management needs to listen to the complaints and react appropriately. Give people something free from the concession stand or some other incentive to take a shuttle instead of driving all the way into downtown.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
I want BOK Arena busy all the time all year.
Distant remote lots with shuttles outside of downtown proper is not a viable solution. Dedicated parking and traffic flow changes are needed to make this work.
Now imagine adding ball park traffic.
You are going to lose regulars that can't find their regular parking spots. You are going to anger and inconvenience downtown workers. You are going to see an increase in the cost to park downtown.
It's not the end of the world, we just need to finish what we started. There are places close by that would work for Arena and Ball Park parking.
You guys are acting like 90 percent of the events are going to be held during business hours on Monday when that's just not the case.
I'm not saying they don't need to revisit parking or how the run shuttles, but most of this problem could have been abated with better visibility of shuttles.
Welcome to big city life. For those of you who don't like the fact that we have a 19000 seat arena, then move. That may seem harsh, but people are moaning with very few of you actually coming forward with any kind of plan to alleviate the problem. Look at the following map and tell me where we are going to have parking.
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=36.152984~-95.998299&style=a&lvl=16&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=16711701&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1
Doesn't it look like there is a lot directly east? How about the CC parkade and all the spaces for the old City Hall? How about the garage at 2nd and Cheyenne? That's about 3500 spots right there.
[8)]
I see three spots where garages could be built just west of the Civic Center garage.
But I don't work downtown anymore. Or live downtown. Or go downtown, except to OSU. I can't think of any reason to.
Who'd want to live there with 3 little kids anyway? There's not enough grass.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
so what I want to know is, who is at fault, and when are they getting fired? I don't want to hear any bull**** about "growing pains" or "working the kinks out" They had months notice on this.
Da mare is directly responsible for this debacle. She has authority to plan for this kind of crap. Thank goodness there was no major medical emergencies in the fubar parts of downtown. The planning negligence exposed the city to liability today.
What is even MORE insulting is putting the downtown workers in direct competition for parking with attendees. I can just imagine how the conversation went:
"Hi, we are Zig Zigler motivational speaker series and we will be in your region late Sept, but we can only visit your podunk town on a Monday instead of a weekend"
Mare's office: "Ok, but we need you to start at 8 because if all of the naysayers get downtown at 9 and find all of the good parking taken they will make us look bad"
Ziglar: "No problem! In fact we will do one better, we will go until 4:45 so we can unleash our 18000 motivated individuals on your pissed off workforce for rush hour traffic"
Mare's office: "EXCELLENT!"
Question: were you downtown yesterday? Because I was and the traffic at 8:00 AM and 5:00 PM was minimal. I drove up Boston, like every day, and it was no different for a Monday. Parked in my usual garage, went by the office, and then took the five minute walk to the arena.
The issue was people not knowing where to go downtown (wanting parking spots at the arena, I guess) and other folks not paying attention. That said, I had another event to go to last night nearby and they event sent us am email warning about the traffic after the BOk event. The result was I parked a block further from that event than normal.
So, as a person who works downtown, attended the event, and had to deal with the effects as someone who had to navigate around the traffic, the disruption was MINIMAL.
For what it's work, they ran a shuttle from Eastland Mall to the event yesterday. When I called to get my tickets, they actually warned me about the parking.
quote:
Originally posted by Gold
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
so what I want to know is, who is at fault, and when are they getting fired? I don't want to hear any bull**** about "growing pains" or "working the kinks out" They had months notice on this.
Da mare is directly responsible for this debacle. She has authority to plan for this kind of crap. Thank goodness there was no major medical emergencies in the fubar parts of downtown. The planning negligence exposed the city to liability today.
What is even MORE insulting is putting the downtown workers in direct competition for parking with attendees. I can just imagine how the conversation went:
"Hi, we are Zig Zigler motivational speaker series and we will be in your region late Sept, but we can only visit your podunk town on a Monday instead of a weekend"
Mare's office: "Ok, but we need you to start at 8 because if all of the naysayers get downtown at 9 and find all of the good parking taken they will make us look bad"
Ziglar: "No problem! In fact we will do one better, we will go until 4:45 so we can unleash our 18000 motivated individuals on your pissed off workforce for rush hour traffic"
Mare's office: "EXCELLENT!"
Question: were you downtown yesterday? Because I was and the traffic at 8:00 AM and 5:00 PM was minimal. I drove up Boston, like every day, and it was no different for a Monday. Parked in my usual garage, went by the office, and then took the five minute walk to the arena.
The issue was people not knowing where to go downtown (wanting parking spots at the arena, I guess) and other folks not paying attention. That said, I had another event to go to last night nearby and they event sent us am email warning about the traffic after the BOk event. The result was I parked a block further from that event than normal.
So, as a person who works downtown, attended the event, and had to deal with the effects as someone who had to navigate around the traffic, the disruption was MINIMAL.
For what it's work, they ran a shuttle from Eastland Mall to the event yesterday. When I called to get my tickets, they actually warned me about the parking.
What???
Did you try driving on oh I don't know..... Highway 169, highway 51, the IDL... anywhere other than a downtown street? For some reason the BA into downtown was completely assraped.
I drove city streets because I live nearby. Even if you were taking the highway, it may have made more sense to get off the highway. Seriously, Boston looked no different than any other Monday. In fact, there was less congestion at my garage than normal.
Got to say I don't appreciate your reference to "assraping," which is much worse than sitting in a traffic jam, so I understand.
quote:
Originally posted by pfox
They should have taken the light rail. Problem solved.
Unfortunately the only light rail around here is a light beam. Just as you get on, someone turns off the flashlight.
Two points:
1. I heard today (not sure how true this is) there are 35,000 people who work downtown and parking for 30,000. So when you add 18,000 more who need to park, where are they supposed to go?
2. Isn't there a city ordinance that requires so many parking spaces for every person/square feet/..... when you build something? If someone were to build a mall downtown, I doubt they would be able to claim everyone elses parking spots. Why would the BOK Center be exempt (other then being government)?
quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
Two points:
1. I heard today (not sure how true this is) there are 35,000 people who work downtown and parking for 30,000. So when you add 18,000 more who need to park, where are they supposed to go?
2. Isn't there a city ordinance that requires so many parking spaces for every person/square feet/..... when you build something? If someone were to build a mall downtown, I doubt they would be able to claim everyone elses parking spots. Why would the BOK Center be exempt (other then being government)?
There are no parking requirements under the CBD zoning within the IDL.
quote:
Originally posted by Gold
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
so what I want to know is, who is at fault, and when are they getting fired? I don't want to hear any bull**** about "growing pains" or "working the kinks out" They had months notice on this.
Da mare is directly responsible for this debacle. She has authority to plan for this kind of crap. Thank goodness there was no major medical emergencies in the fubar parts of downtown. The planning negligence exposed the city to liability today.
What is even MORE insulting is putting the downtown workers in direct competition for parking with attendees. I can just imagine how the conversation went:
"Hi, we are Zig Zigler motivational speaker series and we will be in your region late Sept, but we can only visit your podunk town on a Monday instead of a weekend"
Mare's office: "Ok, but we need you to start at 8 because if all of the naysayers get downtown at 9 and find all of the good parking taken they will make us look bad"
Ziglar: "No problem! In fact we will do one better, we will go until 4:45 so we can unleash our 18000 motivated individuals on your pissed off workforce for rush hour traffic"
Mare's office: "EXCELLENT!"
Question: were you downtown yesterday? Because I was and the traffic at 8:00 AM and 5:00 PM was minimal. I drove up Boston, like every day, and it was no different for a Monday. Parked in my usual garage, went by the office, and then took the five minute walk to the arena.
The issue was people not knowing where to go downtown (wanting parking spots at the arena, I guess) and other folks not paying attention. That said, I had another event to go to last night nearby and they event sent us am email warning about the traffic after the BOk event. The result was I parked a block further from that event than normal.
So, as a person who works downtown, attended the event, and had to deal with the effects as someone who had to navigate around the traffic, the disruption was MINIMAL.
For what it's work, they ran a shuttle from Eastland Mall to the event yesterday. When I called to get my tickets, they actually warned me about the parking.
Not sure which downtown you were at but I was due east of the BOK center and traffic was a nightmare from 6:30am to well after 8am. I PAY for my parking monthly at first and boulder, it was downright atrocious. I have spent a lot of time in Dallas/Houston and while their overall traffic is terrible compared with ours the issues getting parking yesterday were far worse than anything I've experienced except texas motor speedway.
quote:
Originally posted by bbriscoe
I see three spots where garages could be built just west of the Civic Center garage.
But I don't work downtown anymore. Or live downtown. Or go downtown, except to OSU. I can't think of any reason to.
Who'd want to live there with 3 little kids anyway? There's not enough grass.
Where? That big spot will be built up soon, as it's part of the Convention Center renovation. Just west of that is the state gov building.
I wasn't downtown during the clusterf--k, but I have lived and worked in the financial district of San Francisco, worked in downtown Portland before their fancy new trolleys, worked in downtown New Orleans. In New Orleans when something big like the Bayou Classic or Mardi Gras or the Superbowl was happening, everybody knew it might take more time so we allowed extra travel time. I used the busses in order to get there and was never late and they had not special lanes or routes to take
. We, as downtown workers just dealt with it. It is a learning curve and the downtown workers need to get used to sharing downtown with visitors. Downtown is not your private enclave, get over yourselves.
To talk about the parking problem, if more downtown workers rode the bus that would free up parking for events. Think about it. It sounds like everyone wants to blame the event, but maybe everyone will start to rethink how they transport to downtown on a regular basis. If there is more parking for daytime events maybe there would be more downtown events during the day and more people downtown to liven up the streets and more stores opening because there are more people walking around taking in the sights and shopping. What was it like in the old days that everyone waxes so poetic about. I would bet lots of traffic, very few parking spaces, lots of people walking around, lots of stores doing business with those people mingleing around. Was there all that surface parking that we see now, I have a feeling not. How did you Tulsans deal with that aspect back then?
No one needs to be fired. You all are so spoiled rotten. You need to rethink about your relation to downtown and to your job. If Downtown is to become active and alive then you need to let go and make some changes yourselves. If there becomes a demand for daytime events during the week downtown I say Hurrah. To demand that events be scheduled around your schedules is so out of it.
By the way, I do go downtown on a regular basis. I am always amazed that there is not more traffic or people or life in downtown. To compare downtown Tulsa to downtown New Orleans just doesn't work, tulsa is like a ghost town compared to New Orleans.
All the naysayers who said Tulsa couldn't fill an arena must be surprised by the crowds at The Eagles, American Idol and Get Motivated events. It seems to me that the heavy traffic was just another sign of success.
quote:
Originally posted by Gold
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
so what I want to know is, who is at fault, and when are they getting fired? I don't want to hear any bull**** about "growing pains" or "working the kinks out" They had months notice on this.
Da mare is directly responsible for this debacle. She has authority to plan for this kind of crap. Thank goodness there was no major medical emergencies in the fubar parts of downtown. The planning negligence exposed the city to liability today.
What is even MORE insulting is putting the downtown workers in direct competition for parking with attendees. I can just imagine how the conversation went:
"Hi, we are Zig Zigler motivational speaker series and we will be in your region late Sept, but we can only visit your podunk town on a Monday instead of a weekend"
Mare's office: "Ok, but we need you to start at 8 because if all of the naysayers get downtown at 9 and find all of the good parking taken they will make us look bad"
Ziglar: "No problem! In fact we will do one better, we will go until 4:45 so we can unleash our 18000 motivated individuals on your pissed off workforce for rush hour traffic"
Mare's office: "EXCELLENT!"
Question: were you downtown yesterday? Because I was and the traffic at 8:00 AM and 5:00 PM was minimal. I drove up Boston, like every day, and it was no different for a Monday. Parked in my usual garage, went by the office, and then took the five minute walk to the arena.
The issue was people not knowing where to go downtown (wanting parking spots at the arena, I guess) and other folks not paying attention. That said, I had another event to go to last night nearby and they event sent us am email warning about the traffic after the BOk event. The result was I parked a block further from that event than normal.
So, as a person who works downtown, attended the event, and had to deal with the effects as someone who had to navigate around the traffic, the disruption was MINIMAL.
For what it's work, they ran a shuttle from Eastland Mall to the event yesterday. When I called to get my tickets, they actually warned me about the parking.
You are talking out your donkey with blinders on. It is a FACT that it was a traffic nightmare downtown....don't try and ignore all the news stories. John Bolton and the rest of the donkey talkers need to be FIRED. That ****er had the gall to say "we needed to get one of these under our belt" That is like saying everyone need to have a hot poker shoved up their donkey at least once.
quote:
Originally posted by marc
All the naysayers who said Tulsa couldn't fill an arena must be surprised by the crowds at The Eagles, American Idol and Get Motivated events. It seems to me that the heavy traffic was just another sign of success.
BLAH BLAH BLAH
tell us that in two years....
quote:
Originally posted by marc
All the naysayers who said Tulsa couldn't fill an arena must be surprised by the crowds at The Eagles, American Idol and Get Motivated events. It seems to me that the heavy traffic was just another sign of success.
The arena has yet to be filled as in everyseat sold.
Eagles had 14,000 something, the motivation seminar was 16,000 something.
I'm sure someday they'll get all 18,000 to 20,000 but it hasn't happened yet...
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by marc
All the naysayers who said Tulsa couldn't fill an arena must be surprised by the crowds at The Eagles, American Idol and Get Motivated events. It seems to me that the heavy traffic was just another sign of success.
The arena has yet to be filled as in everyseat sold.
Eagles had 14,000 something, the motivation seminar was 16,000 something.
I'm sure someday they'll get all 18,000 to 20,000 but it hasn't happened yet...
14000 for the Eagles as the configuration was for the arena is sold out.
I heard there were near 18000 for the seminar.
American Idols I heard was near sold out if not sold out (14000 or a little more). Look for some of the posts saying it was difficult to find more than a couple of seats at a time not occupied.
Wait for Celine; she's the first center stage act with the 19000 configuration. Somehow I'm betting that's a sellout.
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by marc
All the naysayers who said Tulsa couldn't fill an arena must be surprised by the crowds at The Eagles, American Idol and Get Motivated events. It seems to me that the heavy traffic was just another sign of success.
The arena has yet to be filled as in everyseat sold.
Eagles had 14,000 something, the motivation seminar was 16,000 something.
I'm sure someday they'll get all 18,000 to 20,000 but it hasn't happened yet...
As Hoss noted, The Eagles was definitely a sold out show, all the local media outlets covered it. The tickets were gone in just a few hours, and there were many complaints that scalpers had bought a portion of them.
Newschannel 8 reported that American Idols was sold out on the night of the show, but perhaps that was inaccurate.
the tulsa oilers are doing everything they can to break the CHL record for the most fans @ an opening season game. ...so i expect oct. 25th to be sold out as well.
...i guess it's because i came to the 'get motivated' event just before lunch, but i had no trouble finding parking at the city hall lot (the two parking garages around the arena were both full), walked over to the bok center, had a great time there, was really excited to see all those people there,
listened to a few speakers,
left before 4,
had no problems at all.
(cept i'll say that the event ITSELF & the 'get motivated' people may have been motivated but they were not very good at telling people where to go, what to do, what the event was all about, where to find info, etc. ...i'm glad i got to see joe montana and zig ziglar speak, but the rest seemed like an infomercial for some useless mlm real estate get rich quick scam).
went to an after-party at baxter's tho. that was a blast. i got to meet a lot of cool tulsa business people and entrepreneurs / small business folks. that was a lot more motivating.
According to Six In The Morning, about eight people got their cars towed for parking on private property Monday morning. One lady they interviewed was blaming her poor parking choice on the city.
Nothing like personal responsibility and common sense ma'am.
quote:
Originally posted by joiei
To talk about the parking problem, if more downtown workers rode the bus that would free up parking for events. Think about it. It sounds like everyone wants to blame the event, but maybe everyone will start to rethink how they transport to downtown on a regular basis. If there is more parking for daytime events maybe there would be more downtown events during the day and more people downtown to liven up the streets and more stores opening because there are more people walking around taking in the sights and shopping. What was it like in the old days that everyone waxes so poetic about. I would bet lots of traffic, very few parking spaces, lots of people walking around, lots of stores doing business with those people mingleing around. Was there all that surface parking that we see now, I have a feeling not. How did you Tulsans deal with that aspect back then?
That's a good point. As a matter of fact those people who drive themselves to work downtown get in my way when I try to go around the IDL to get to work. So if they're going to complain I get to complain.
According to material handed out at the grand openening the BOk Center can hold up to 22,000 depending on where the stage is located on the floor. Obviously if the stage is towards one end of the floor you won't be able to sell seats behind the stage. Alternatively, if the stage is in the center of the floor you can sell every seat. I think in all there were about 5 different stage configurations seating anywhere from 14,000 - 22,000.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by Gold
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
so what I want to know is, who is at fault, and when are they getting fired? I don't want to hear any bull**** about "growing pains" or "working the kinks out" They had months notice on this.
Da mare is directly responsible for this debacle. She has authority to plan for this kind of crap. Thank goodness there was no major medical emergencies in the fubar parts of downtown. The planning negligence exposed the city to liability today.
What is even MORE insulting is putting the downtown workers in direct competition for parking with attendees. I can just imagine how the conversation went:
"Hi, we are Zig Zigler motivational speaker series and we will be in your region late Sept, but we can only visit your podunk town on a Monday instead of a weekend"
Mare's office: "Ok, but we need you to start at 8 because if all of the naysayers get downtown at 9 and find all of the good parking taken they will make us look bad"
Ziglar: "No problem! In fact we will do one better, we will go until 4:45 so we can unleash our 18000 motivated individuals on your pissed off workforce for rush hour traffic"
Mare's office: "EXCELLENT!"
Question: were you downtown yesterday? Because I was and the traffic at 8:00 AM and 5:00 PM was minimal. I drove up Boston, like every day, and it was no different for a Monday. Parked in my usual garage, went by the office, and then took the five minute walk to the arena.
The issue was people not knowing where to go downtown (wanting parking spots at the arena, I guess) and other folks not paying attention. That said, I had another event to go to last night nearby and they event sent us am email warning about the traffic after the BOk event. The result was I parked a block further from that event than normal.
So, as a person who works downtown, attended the event, and had to deal with the effects as someone who had to navigate around the traffic, the disruption was MINIMAL.
For what it's work, they ran a shuttle from Eastland Mall to the event yesterday. When I called to get my tickets, they actually warned me about the parking.
You are talking out your donkey with blinders on. It is a FACT that it was a traffic nightmare downtown....don't try and ignore all the news stories. John Bolton and the rest of the donkey talkers need to be FIRED. That ****er had the gall to say "we needed to get one of these under our belt" That is like saying everyone need to have a hot poker shoved up their donkey at least once.
How am I talking out my patootie, dear sir? I work downtown. I spend a lot of my free time in downtown. I run through downtown on the weekends. Point being: I have a good feel for what is going on downtown.
I asked you a question. Were you downtown Monday? No need to be a jackass in your response. I was there and in my opinion it wasn't that bad. I don't think you have very good first hand information. There is too much hyperbole in your argument here to actually have a grasp for what really happened.
Traffic east of Denver wasn't that bad. I got downtown at 7:30 or so Monday and it wasn't that big of a deal. I parked where I normally park and it wasn't a big deal at all.
I think the haters in this thread protest too much. Having to walk a few blocks is about as far as you can get from having a hot coal shoved into your body cavity. (Is there something about being on the losing side of an argument that forces the losing side on here to make references to invasions of the anus? Because I count about three such references.) If anything, walking the few blocks is GOOD for you and Lord knows this city needs more exercise.
People do need to read the paper or somehow otherwise inform themselves of events taking place in downtown. This is going to happen from time to time. Heck, it already happens: living and working near downtown, I've been inconvenienced by dozens of community events, most notably parades and runs that block off large blocks of the city. I've taken the initiative to try to better inform myself of these events. Every once in awhile, I miss one, and while I might moan about it if I'm in a hurry, I don't make a freaking constitutional case out of it or make references to anal rape on a message board.
Some of the rhetoric in this thread is so overstated that it pretty much defeats whatever purpose you are advocating. It wasn't that bad. Get over it.
quote:
Originally posted by joiei
I wasn't downtown during the clusterf--k, but I have lived and worked in the financial district of San Francisco, worked in downtown Portland before their fancy new trolleys, worked in downtown New Orleans. In New Orleans when something big like the Bayou Classic or Mardi Gras or the Superbowl was happening, everybody knew it might take more time so we allowed extra travel time. I used the busses in order to get there and was never late and they had not special lanes or routes to take
. We, as downtown workers just dealt with it. It is a learning curve and the downtown workers need to get used to sharing downtown with visitors. Downtown is not your private enclave, get over yourselves.
To talk about the parking problem, if more downtown workers rode the bus that would free up parking for events. Think about it. It sounds like everyone wants to blame the event, but maybe everyone will start to rethink how they transport to downtown on a regular basis. If there is more parking for daytime events maybe there would be more downtown events during the day and more people downtown to liven up the streets and more stores opening because there are more people walking around taking in the sights and shopping. What was it like in the old days that everyone waxes so poetic about. I would bet lots of traffic, very few parking spaces, lots of people walking around, lots of stores doing business with those people mingleing around. Was there all that surface parking that we see now, I have a feeling not. How did you Tulsans deal with that aspect back then?
No one needs to be fired. You all are so spoiled rotten. You need to rethink about your relation to downtown and to your job. If Downtown is to become active and alive then you need to let go and make some changes yourselves. If there becomes a demand for daytime events during the week downtown I say Hurrah. To demand that events be scheduled around your schedules is so out of it.
By the way, I do go downtown on a regular basis. I am always amazed that there is not more traffic or people or life in downtown. To compare downtown Tulsa to downtown New Orleans just doesn't work, tulsa is like a ghost town compared to New Orleans.
I like your attitude about downtown. As one of the geezers let me comment on how it was and provide insight as to how it could be. A lot of things have changed.
I attended the high school downtown where PSO has their offices now. I worked for Cities when the BOK tower was being built. There were more needs for parking then than now. We had about 75,000 using downtown in the late 60's. A combination of 2800 students, lots of retail businesses, oil workers, lawyers and government folks. That dropped to around 60,000 when I worked at Cities in the 70's. Its laughable that you people can't handle 30,000 without such a frenzy.
Busses were used more heavily. I didn't always drive to work or school because of parking difficulties or the prohibitive cost of gasl. and a parking garage. Since that time at least two parking garages have been demolished. My bet is the others are pricey. Across from PSO and next to the church were good ones.
My younger fellow workers lived nearby in older neighborhoods because we were lowly paid fresh college grads. Near northside, 15th & Peoria, Hillcrest were affordable and served by main bus lines. I lived at Archer & Independence. Today, college grads are buying homes in the burbs with a lot more money in their pockets than we had. They also don't have much patience with public transportation.
We had a more accomodating view of downtown life. Like Joie, we made stuff work. We didn't leave the downtown area during the day, we took the bus, we came to work early and plugged meters hourly, we got tickets and paid them, we parked in abandoned business lots (and they didn't care) and we walked a lot. And we loved it a lot too. I don't remember so much whining as now.
ps. Because I'm bored and just remembered. East of the high school, 7th street ran into an area that had been cleared of homes to make way for what would become the east leg of the IDL. It was the western edge of Central Park. Many businessmen and students would park there free and walk to work. Hundreds. Beebe Parking co. was nearby as well as the downtown tag agent. Very visible area.
This event sticks in my memory. We walked down to our cars one afternoon to find all the hoods were raised. You could open hoods on any car from the outside then. The gas filler doors were open too. Someone who was very organized and had trucks, had stolen every single battery in the lot and most of the gasoline! In broad daylight and with out fear of capture. Why? Because big players like Beebe Parking, Storey Wrecker and the city of Tulsa didn't like losing any part of their cash cow to free parking. Parking fees, parking tickets, towing fees were being avoided. There was a traffic jam that night and parking revenues for established players was restored.
San Francisco is famous for its lack of parking but I can think of "dedicated parking" or "nearby parking that was always available" for all of their downtown venues. Their new ballpark has dedicated parking. Their Moscone Convention Center has dedicated parking. Even Macy's at Union Square was close to paid parking on O'Farrell that was always available.
Now we can talk about what people "should" do. Heck in 1975 we should have worn sweaters and adjusted the thermostat but Jimmy Carter soon learned what Ronald Reagan knew -- people don't like change.
I don't mind walking a few blocks but I do not like not knowing where I am going to park. I want to know there will be a space for me somewhere -- guaranteed.
For folks that haven't been downtown since the oil companies left let me tell you -- we've got space to spare downtown. So don't tell me it's not possible to add parking. And don't tell me all the events are going to be set for night. What good is that? We need that place filled with business at all hours as often as possible.
Someone said we cut parking on the Arena to get a lower price tag so that voters would approve it. Whatever the reasons, let's get rid of any possible problems now, while the gettings good.
Let's plan and build parking for the Arena and the Ball Park.
Why don't we make some changes to traffic flow so that people that come downtown for the Arena will have a good time. Downtown regulars will have a good time. And everyone will be back tomorrow with pockets full of money to spend downtown.
Anyway, don't you love the TulsaWorld? Any criticism, no matter how tame, automatically qualifies you as a naysayer. Well guess what you are TulsaWorld -- An Apologist. You were invented to provide excuses for the status quo when it messes up. You aren't a newspaper. You are an excuse.
I think the World is really critical of a lot of things, ranging from highways, to infrastructure, to election endorsements. Sure, they have their interests. I'm just glad we have a locally owned paper still. But, I don't think they are an apologist for the status quo.
As for the topic of parking, the best model I've seen is Memphis. They've built several "dual use" parking structures; they are used by workers during the day and visitors at night.
Now, depending on where you are going -- ballpark, arena, Beale Street -- you might have to walk a few blocks.
A lot of the criticism I see related to parking for the arena never gets around the fact that walk is a neccesity in a downtown. It's not really that bad. Even when I had a job downtown with no free parking attached to it, it wasn't really that bad. People in Oklahoma basically need to get a grip when it comes to walking. It's good for you and the distances downtown aren't really that bad.
You want to see bad? Go to a Dallas Cowboys game at Texas stadium, crossing a highway and under an overpass. That's dangerous. Crossing a few blocks with intersections and lights is NOTHING.
Then again, so many of the complainers are those who aren't going to the arena for events.
quote:
Originally posted by Gold
Now, depending on where you are going -- ballpark, arena, Beale Street -- you might have to walk a few blocks.
What? I'm out.
Actually, I had to go to the Courthouse during the event. I had to park at 7th and Cinci. I think that is a 6 block walk. Not the end of the world by any means.
Also consider the market. Given that there was no demand for more structured parking little has been built recently (one new garage). As demand grows the incentive to build more OR open up more of what is there (to pay by the day) will also grow.
Now, ask me again in February when I walk 6 blocks and it's freezing. [^]
You know, they sell these things called coats you can wear when it's cold. You'll have to spend some money, but I promise you, they are valuable and can be re-used many, many times. [;)]
Seriously, though, the walking isn't that bad. This has more to do with the mindset of some Oklahomans that demands we have parking next to every single destination. I have the same trouble in my business -- some clients complain about parking downtown constantly. I guess we could move next to a highway and have a big lot next door, but that might actually hurt the product we deliver. Most of lot of what we do happens downtown. Makes more sense to be here.
so you guys/gals had to walk a couple of blocks and got stuck in traffic. Who cares?? Think of it this way, you are killing two birds with one stone. You are exercising while going to whatever event you paid money to and are probably looking forward to it.
Seriously, go to NY where it costs 45 dollars a day to park, and you walk 10-15 blocks or take the subway. It took us 2.5 hrs to go 6 miles in lower Manhattan.
A couple of months ago, everyone on this forum was *****ing how there was too much surface parking, and now some of the same people are *****ing that they were stuck in traffic and incovienced because they had to park a couple of blocks away. Some of the people on this forum, need to rethink their priorities in ilfe. If this is your biggest concern, you should really rethink or reexamine your priorities.
I live at 111th and hwy 75 and left about 725 to get to the event. We parked in the one oak parking garage, walked a couple of blocks and still managed to get into the BOK center about 5 minutes before the event started. If you know where to park downtown and are familiar with the area you shouldn't have had any problems at all getting to the event on time. Alot of people seemed to have had the philosophy of "I must follow the exact highway signs, or I won't get there", which is total BS. There are several diff ways to get to the same place, but as we encountered on Mon, they all used the same damn route!!
I think we should build several more stacked parking structures downtown. At least one by TCC, one in Blue Dome and maybe one in the Brady or by the PAC. As long as they are mixed use parking and retail
quote:
Originally posted by marc
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by marc
All the naysayers who said Tulsa couldn't fill an arena must be surprised by the crowds at The Eagles, American Idol and Get Motivated events. It seems to me that the heavy traffic was just another sign of success.
The arena has yet to be filled as in everyseat sold.
Eagles had 14,000 something, the motivation seminar was 16,000 something.
I'm sure someday they'll get all 18,000 to 20,000 but it hasn't happened yet...
As Hoss noted, The Eagles was definitely a sold out show, all the local media outlets covered it. The tickets were gone in just a few hours, and there were many complaints that scalpers had bought a portion of them.
Newschannel 8 reported that American Idols was sold out on the night of the show, but perhaps that was inaccurate.
You said "fill" not "sold out" heck The Brady is sold out tonight. With your switch in direction that would put them equal to the arena just because they sold out...
It's not a switch in direction. By "fill" I meant fill all the available seats for a given event. Yes, the number of available seats will change depending on the stage configuration. The Eagles was a sold out show and a full house.
The September 24 Tulsa World editorial summed things up pretty well, in my opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by marc
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by marc
All the naysayers who said Tulsa couldn't fill an arena must be surprised by the crowds at The Eagles, American Idol and Get Motivated events. It seems to me that the heavy traffic was just another sign of success.
The arena has yet to be filled as in everyseat sold.
Eagles had 14,000 something, the motivation seminar was 16,000 something.
I'm sure someday they'll get all 18,000 to 20,000 but it hasn't happened yet...
As Hoss noted, The Eagles was definitely a sold out show, all the local media outlets covered it. The tickets were gone in just a few hours, and there were many complaints that scalpers had bought a portion of them.
Newschannel 8 reported that American Idols was sold out on the night of the show, but perhaps that was inaccurate.
You said "fill" not "sold out" heck The Brady is sold out tonight. With your switch in direction that would put them equal to the arena just because they sold out...
Your point doesn't make much sense. Different events have different configurations. It's not like they are trying to defraud the public by changing the seating configuration based on tickets sold. Go to the BOk center web site and look at the configurations for different types of concerts, notably the differences between how it will be set up for Metallica, the Eagles, and Nine Inch Nails.
Eagles tickets were a hot commodity. They would have sold more if the configuration allowed for it.
quote:
Originally posted by marc
It's not a switch in direction. By "fill" I meant fill all the available seats for a given event. Yes, the number of available seats will change depending on the stage configuration. The Eagles was a sold out show and a full house.
The September 24 Tulsa World editorial summed things up pretty well, in my opinion.
With just under 6,000 empty seats
I just checked on seats for the Nov. 11th Eagles on was able to find floor seats and also middle yellow sections
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by marc
It's not a switch in direction. By "fill" I meant fill all the available seats for a given event. Yes, the number of available seats will change depending on the stage configuration. The Eagles was a sold out show and a full house.
The September 24 Tulsa World editorial summed things up pretty well, in my opinion.
With just under 6,000 empty seats
I just checked on seats for the Nov. 11th Eagles on was able to find floor seats and also middle yellow sections
Can you read a calendar? You do realize that there are 6 weeks left until this event right?
You guys crack me up (arena naysayers, that is). You were so sure this was going to be a big white elephant; now that it's actually doing what is was supposed to, instead of being happy for it, you ask why an event by a band who was just here has sold 8000 seats but still has 6000 left (or so you say).
Go live out in the country and stay away from urbia...sheesh.
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by marc
It's not a switch in direction. By "fill" I meant fill all the available seats for a given event. Yes, the number of available seats will change depending on the stage configuration. The Eagles was a sold out show and a full house.
The September 24 Tulsa World editorial summed things up pretty well, in my opinion.
With just under 6,000 empty seats
I just checked on seats for the Nov. 11th Eagles on was able to find floor seats and also middle yellow sections
Can you read a calendar? You do realize that there are 6 weeks left until this event right?
You guys crack me up (arena naysayers, that is). You were so sure this was going to be a big white elephant; now that it's actually doing what is was supposed to, instead of being happy for it, you ask why an event by a band who was just here has sold 8000 seats but still has 6000 left (or so you say).
Go live out in the country and stay away from urbia...sheesh.
I love it when people jump in , say this and that and still don't have a clue why what is being said..... Must have gone to collegesheeshh
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by marc
It's not a switch in direction. By "fill" I meant fill all the available seats for a given event. Yes, the number of available seats will change depending on the stage configuration. The Eagles was a sold out show and a full house.
The September 24 Tulsa World editorial summed things up pretty well, in my opinion.
With just under 6,000 empty seats
I just checked on seats for the Nov. 11th Eagles on was able to find floor seats and also middle yellow sections
Can you read a calendar? You do realize that there are 6 weeks left until this event right?
You guys crack me up (arena naysayers, that is). You were so sure this was going to be a big white elephant; now that it's actually doing what is was supposed to, instead of being happy for it, you ask why an event by a band who was just here has sold 8000 seats but still has 6000 left (or so you say).
Go live out in the country and stay away from urbia...sheesh.
I love it when people jump in , say this and that and still don't have a clue why what is being said..... Must have gone to collegesheeshh
"The Eagles was a sold out show and a full house."
The date of that show was September 6.
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by marc
It's not a switch in direction. By "fill" I meant fill all the available seats for a given event. Yes, the number of available seats will change depending on the stage configuration. The Eagles was a sold out show and a full house.
The September 24 Tulsa World editorial summed things up pretty well, in my opinion.
With just under 6,000 empty seats
I just checked on seats for the Nov. 11th Eagles on was able to find floor seats and also middle yellow sections
Can you read a calendar? You do realize that there are 6 weeks left until this event right?
You guys crack me up (arena naysayers, that is). You were so sure this was going to be a big white elephant; now that it's actually doing what is was supposed to, instead of being happy for it, you ask why an event by a band who was just here has sold 8000 seats but still has 6000 left (or so you say).
Go live out in the country and stay away from urbia...sheesh.
I love it when people jump in , say this and that and still don't have a clue why what is being said..... Must have gone to collegesheeshh
Lookin' in the mirror right now maybe?
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
I love it when people jump in , say this and that and still don't have a clue why what is being said..... Must have gone to collegesheeshh
your posts are always bleak and don't really say anything
quote:
Originally posted by marc
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by marc
It's not a switch in direction. By "fill" I meant fill all the available seats for a given event. Yes, the number of available seats will change depending on the stage configuration. The Eagles was a sold out show and a full house.
The September 24 Tulsa World editorial summed things up pretty well, in my opinion.
With just under 6,000 empty seats
I just checked on seats for the Nov. 11th Eagles on was able to find floor seats and also middle yellow sections
Can you read a calendar? You do realize that there are 6 weeks left until this event right?
You guys crack me up (arena naysayers, that is). You were so sure this was going to be a big white elephant; now that it's actually doing what is was supposed to, instead of being happy for it, you ask why an event by a band who was just here has sold 8000 seats but still has 6000 left (or so you say).
Go live out in the country and stay away from urbia...sheesh.
I love it when people jump in , say this and that and still don't have a clue why what is being said..... Must have gone to collegesheeshh
"The Eagles was a sold out show and a full house."
The date of that show was September 6.
LOL ok you win [;)] I didn't know they opened up behind the stage. You should let the local paper know about that [:O]
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by MDepr2007
quote:
Originally posted by marc
It's not a switch in direction. By "fill" I meant fill all the available seats for a given event. Yes, the number of available seats will change depending on the stage configuration. The Eagles was a sold out show and a full house.
The September 24 Tulsa World editorial summed things up pretty well, in my opinion.
With just under 6,000 empty seats
I just checked on seats for the Nov. 11th Eagles on was able to find floor seats and also middle yellow sections
Can you read a calendar? You do realize that there are 6 weeks left until this event right?
You guys crack me up (arena naysayers, that is). You were so sure this was going to be a big white elephant; now that it's actually doing what is was supposed to, instead of being happy for it, you ask why an event by a band who was just here has sold 8000 seats but still has 6000 left (or so you say).
Go live out in the country and stay away from urbia...sheesh.
I love it when people jump in , say this and that and still don't have a clue why what is being said..... Must have gone to collegesheeshh
Lookin' in the mirror right now maybe?
Nope... you're the one who is twisting things being said
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
According to Six In The Morning, about eight people got their cars towed for parking on private property Monday morning. One lady they interviewed was blaming her poor parking choice on the city.
Nothing like personal responsibility and common sense ma'am.
Thank you Conan!!! I was in shock when I saw that bit on TV. If someone parked in her front yard for an event down the street, would she have their car towed?...Absolutely.
Someone show me an arena thats failed.....
Alot of the traffic problem was because people aren't used to going downtown. Everyone tried to use the Denver exit instead of side streets, etc... Denver was a bottleneck...& backed up the highways.
I also believe that the economic impact of the arena will far out weigh the occasional inconvenience.
...after all, they were mostly "sprawl-dwellers" that have the God-given right to park at the front door.
quote:
Originally posted by MichaelWayne_71
...after all, they were mostly "sprawl-dwellers" that have the God-given right to park at the front door.
Is that what I smelled?
Someone show me an arena thats failed.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_Arena
quote:
Originally posted by bmuscotty
Someone show me an arena thats failed.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_Arena
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Defunct_indoor_arenas
I'd be ecstatic if we got an NBA team and built an even better downtown arena in 10 years, and built it a block from all the bars, ala Memphis.
quote:
Originally posted by TheTed
I'd be ecstatic if we got an NBA team and built an even better downtown arena in 10 years, and built it a block from all the bars, ala Memphis.
Yeah, that would totally suck. Poor Memphis.
quote:
Originally posted by inteller
quote:
Originally posted by bmuscotty
Someone show me an arena thats failed.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_Arena
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Defunct_indoor_arenas
failed... would be not a very appropriate description. I don't think the Arena was built to make money. The question is... Can the Arena bring in enough revenue to cover the operational overhead, while at the same time being a stepping stone, of sorts, for Downtown?
I don't know the answer. The place out south that has ZZ, along with the Casino off of Tisdale are not making it any easier...
Add to that, Brady, and Cain's and you have quite a mix.
Are the tickets for Janet Jackson for sale yet?
It had crossed my mind that a "guaranteed purse" that the Arena folks had balked at might be the cause.... but who knows