Why again did we vote to give them 2025 money? Oh right, it was going to CREATE 6000+ jobs.
Maybe we should stop giving our tax dollars as corporate welfare.
Jul. 19--American Airlines will cut 1,500 jobs in its maintenance division, but will continue to maintain a "major operation in Tulsa," a spokesman said Friday.
The cuts were announced in memos sent to employees this week, but spokesman Tim Wagner said the breakdown of where the job losses will hit has yet to be decided. American, the nation's largest airline, has about 14,000 employees in its maintenance division, including management and support staff.
http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1488215/american_set_to_cut_1500_jobs_in_tulsa/
1,500 jobs will be cut system-wide. That means the lowest seniority mechanics and related at all stations, not Tulsa alone.
If I recall right, the 2025 money was approved before oil went to $140/bl.
quote:
Originally posted by Ed W
1,500 jobs will be cut system-wide. That means the lowest seniority mechanics and related at all stations, not Tulsa alone.
Are you sure? The headline says 1,500 in Tulsa.
6,800 systemwide
The Fort Worth-based airline, part of AMR Corp., announced two weeks ago it would shed 8 percent of its work force -- about 6,800 jobs -- in order to cope with financial distress brought on by record fuel costs and a weakening economy.
quote:
Originally posted by TeeDub
quote:
Originally posted by Ed W
1,500 jobs will be cut system-wide. That means the lowest seniority mechanics and related at all stations, not Tulsa alone.
Are you sure? The headline says 1,500 in Tulsa.
6,800 systemwide
The Fort Worth-based airline, part of AMR Corp., announced two weeks ago it would shed 8 percent of its work force -- about 6,800 jobs -- in order to cope with financial distress brought on by record fuel costs and a weakening economy.
The headline is wrong, it's by that idiot Lackmeyer at the Daily Jokelahoman. The body of the article which was largely cribbed from AP also states that no decisions on the location of cuts have been announced. Here's the second paragraph:
quote:
The cuts were announced in memos sent to employees this week, but spokesman Tim Wagner said the breakdown of where the job losses will hit has yet to be decided. American, the nation's largest airline, has about 14,000 employees in its maintenance division, including management and support staff.
Lackmeyer has obvious reading comprehension issues and also blatantly can't stand Tulsa so he's both stupid and biased in this article.
Swake, thanks for the detailed analysis. Much appreciated. Especially the background on Lackmeyer
[;)]
AGREED!
One does wonder where that 2025 bs leads to from here.
quote:
Originally posted by Ed W
1,500 jobs will be cut system-wide. That means the lowest seniority mechanics and related at all stations, not Tulsa alone.
If I recall right, the 2025 money was approved before oil went to $140/bl.
$22 million in Corporate Welfare to American Airlines was part of the Vision 2025 tax package.
It was a bribe to get the AA employees to vote for the new tax.
At the time, American Airlines was still staggering from the post 9-11 downtown in the travel industry.
I certainly hope that Tulsa does not lose 1,500 good, high-paying jobs at AA.
That is alot of people who are losing their jobs. This is one good reason for Oklahoma's 1804, when the economy turns sour we won't have illegal workers taking away jobs from legal workers. That is a scary report.[B)]
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
That is alot of people who are losing their jobs. This is one good reason for Oklahoma's 1804, when the economy turns sour we won't have illegal workers taking away jobs from legal workers. That is a scary report.[B)]
Are you a true American? Or just from Dumbf*ckistan?
Give me a break. We're talking skilled versus service industry jobs. Get a grip. Try not to hate.
6800 jobs company wide. 200 pilots, 900 flight attendants... 1,500 in the maintenance division (1300 mechanics 200 mangers). That's all their maintenance areas. They have NOT announced how or where those cuts will be made
The Article by the KC Star
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1771191/
Business wire:
http://www.smartbrief.com/news/ata/storyDetails.jsp?issueid=1497939E-1814-48B8-AE41-890E2DBF029B©id=E472E59E-2AEC-4391-B3A9-62E502926E31
Canadian Press:
DALLAS - American Airlines will cut 1,500 jobs in its maintenance division as it reduces its fleet of aircraft.
The largest U.S. airline told employees of the cuts in memos this week. American didn't break down the cuts by location. Tami McLallen, a spokeswoman for the airline, said those decisions had not yet been made.
http://money.aol.ca/article/switzerland-roche-genentech-2nd-writethru-reuse-story-id/287310/
- - -
None of those suggest all those cuts are in Tulsa. Even the article you linked to says "American Airlines will cut 1,500 jobs in its maintenance division" and says nothing about the number of jobs in Tulsa. I can't even find the article on the Oklahoman's website but copyright is attributed to them.
The headline is a hack job. Unless a source comes out saying "All maintenance cuts will be from Tulsa" I call BS
and request that you change the headlines. We don't know how many jobs will be lost. No need giving people a heart attack.
Did the person writing the headline not read the article or do they have information we don't?
- - -
BUT, I would be interested to see how the job cuts effect 2025 money. We gave them $22,300,000 in 2004. If they cut the ~750 jobs it looks like they will that's a steep price to pay. Anyone know what the strings were? Tell me there were strings.
quote:
Vision 2025 has paved the way for the Base to open two new 737 maintenance lines; replacing short-term work with long-term stable work with a future.
http://www.vision2025.info/category.php?mode=&category=americanairlines
I don't blame them for cutting jobs. It's business and they are losing money (some now or all later). But another reason why corporate welfare doesn't always pan out. That $23million could have been spent making the community more attractive for business in general.
Not saying it was a bad investment, just saying I hope we were leery of a straight handout and attached some strings.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
That is alot of people who are losing their jobs. This is one good reason for Oklahoma's 1804, when the economy turns sour we won't have illegal workers taking away jobs from legal workers. That is a scary report.[B)]
I thought you live in Ohio? Are illegal immigrants in Tulsa taking jobs from Ohio because of 1804? [;)]
They took 'er jobs!
Lets stick with AA, go forth and start an immigration thread if you so desire.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
The headline is a hack job. Unless a source comes out saying "All maintenance cuts will be from Tulsa" I call BS and request that you change the headlines. We don't know how many jobs will be lost. No need giving people a heart attack.
I tried to change it, but ran into a character limitation...
Apparently "Even $22.3 Million of YOUR tax dollars isn't enough to keep AA from firing Tulsans" was too long.
And look! No strings!
http://www.vision2025.info/includes/pages/aboutvision2025/uploads/01/file.pdf
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by Ed W
1,500 jobs will be cut system-wide. That means the lowest seniority mechanics and related at all stations, not Tulsa alone.
If I recall right, the 2025 money was approved before oil went to $140/bl.
$22 million in Corporate Welfare to American Airlines was part of the Vision 2025 tax package.
It was a bribe to get the AA employees to vote for the new tax.
At the time, American Airlines was still staggering from the post 9-11 downtown in the travel industry.
I certainly hope that Tulsa does not lose 1,500 good, high-paying jobs at AA.
Indeed. It would be a great tragedy to see that funding for Corporate welfare waisted.
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
quote:
Originally posted by Ed W
1,500 jobs will be cut system-wide. That means the lowest seniority mechanics and related at all stations, not Tulsa alone.
If I recall right, the 2025 money was approved before oil went to $140/bl.
$22 million in Corporate Welfare to American Airlines was part of the Vision 2025 tax package.
It was a bribe to get the AA employees to vote for the new tax.
At the time, American Airlines was still staggering from the post 9-11 downtown in the travel industry.
I certainly hope that Tulsa does not lose 1,500 good, high-paying jobs at AA.
Indeed. It would be a great tragedy to see that funding for Corporate welfare waisted.
....speaking of Dumbf*ckistan.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
That is alot of people who are losing their jobs. This is one good reason for Oklahoma's 1804, when the economy turns sour we won't have illegal workers taking away jobs from legal workers. That is a scary report.[B)]
Yessss, all of those skilled airline mechanics coming to Tulsa from the northern Mexican provinces!!
Most illegal immigrant workers cut chicken's heads off for a living-- they don't work in highly skilled and unionized airline maintenance bases.
Dumbass.
So since I've only been in this area for a few years will someone tell me about this "corporate welfare" that was given to AA? I guess Tulsa paid AA to move jobs here or something??? (Yes I know I'm being lazy I dont particularly feel like googling it).
Here's how a reduction in force works. Say the airline wants to cut 1500 mechanics jobs. They take the 1500 who are lowest on the seniority list regardless of where they are in the system. So it's possible that a small station could lose all their mechanics. Then the company has to backfill those jobs with existing employees. The selection process can be complicated because a senior employee who doesn't want to be forced to relocate can displace a junior employee in a lower paid job at his present station. When you toss qualifications into the mix it gets even more confusing.
Oh, and that 2025 money helped to preserve quite a few existing jobs that would have been lost otherwise. I think some went to purchase equipment that belongs to the Tulsa airport trust. AA is using it and is responsible for maintenance, engineering support, calibration, and repair, but the equipment cannot be moved from Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by OUGrad05
So since I've only been in this area for a few years will someone tell me about this "corporate welfare" that was given to AA? I guess Tulsa paid AA to move jobs here or something??? (Yes I know I'm being lazy I dont particularly feel like googling it).
Per the links I gave above, as part of the Vision 2025 package we funded some $24,000,000 to buy assets and building improvements that can be used by American Airlines. Basically, we bought them new machines for their machine shop and let them use them for free so long as they maintain them. The idea being the jobs stay where the new (and free) equipment is.
The efficacy of the move is open for debate. I'm too ignorant of goings on at AA to really know.
I think we also paid for waste water treatment processing equipment and infrastructure, or that might have been Spirit we did that for. I know we talked about it at one time and it irritates me as that wouldn't necessarily be job creation.
It just fed the oligarch Rooney and Flint construction cartel via our tax vampires. [}:)]
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
That is alot of people who are losing their jobs. This is one good reason for Oklahoma's 1804, when the economy turns sour we won't have illegal workers taking away jobs from legal workers. That is a scary report.[B)]
Are you a true American? Or just from Dumbf*ckistan?
Give me a break. We're talking skilled versus service industry jobs. Get a grip. Try not to hate.
Welcome To Krautland. In Krautland, all problems are caused by illegal aliens or by not drilling for oil in places we have no right to drill. Personally, I just think the boy is just a mow-ron.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
quote:
Originally posted by OUGrad05
So since I've only been in this area for a few years will someone tell me about this "corporate welfare" that was given to AA? I guess Tulsa paid AA to move jobs here or something??? (Yes I know I'm being lazy I dont particularly feel like googling it).
Per the links I gave above, as part of the Vision 2025 package we funded some $24,000,000 to buy assets and building improvements that can be used by American Airlines. Basically, we bought them new machines for their machine shop and let them use them for free so long as they maintain them. The idea being the jobs stay where the new (and free) equipment is.
The efficacy of the move is open for debate. I'm too ignorant of goings on at AA to really know.
All of the equipment and fiscal improvements made to facilities were verified at AA's Tulsa facilities. Most everything was tagged for easy recognition by workers especially anything portable. The Tulsa Airport Improvements Trust had nothing to do with the Vision 2025 program at AA; all improvements were and are exclusively the property of AA.
Having personally reviewed each and every expenditure and met many of the personnel utilizing the improvements I have no doubt that this program has and will continue to be quite beneficial to the health of the Tulsa base and therefore of economic benefit to the region.
quote:
Originally posted by Vision 2025
all improvements were and are exclusively the property of AA.
So, in short, it was a $22.3 million dollar handout.
quote:
Originally posted by TeeDub
quote:
Originally posted by Vision 2025
all improvements were and are exclusively the property of AA.
So, in short, it was a $22.3 million dollar handout.
Yes. It's called Corporate Welfare.
Imagine if you would the local economic impact if the $40 million in state and city money wasted on capitalizing Great Plains Airlines had instead been spread among 80 small, local firms.
These would be small, locally owned firms that were good, ongoing business concerns, but were short of capital to invest in physical plant and other capital expenditures to further grow their businesses.
What a missed opportunity!
Why are we still discussing this if the headline has no basis in reality, just a reason to complain about Vision2025?
quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyK
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
That is alot of people who are losing their jobs. This is one good reason for Oklahoma's 1804, when the economy turns sour we won't have illegal workers taking away jobs from legal workers. That is a scary report.[B)]
Are you a true American? Or just from Dumbf*ckistan?
Give me a break. We're talking skilled versus service industry jobs. Get a grip. Try not to hate.
Welcome To Krautland. In Krautland, all problems are caused by illegal aliens or by not drilling for oil in places we have no right to drill. Personally, I just think the boy is just a mow-ron.
I had to put him on the ignore list because I couldn't stand reading his opinions that Wal*Mart is great and people walking dogs are bad. If everyone would stop replying to that drivel with the quote I could just pass on by but morbid curiosity gets the best of me (kinda like scrolling down to the responses to articles on the TulsaWorld website, or perhaps a train wreck but I suspect train wrecks are better informed). SK is a troll, and one that doesn't even live in Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyK
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
That is alot of people who are losing their jobs. This is one good reason for Oklahoma's 1804, when the economy turns sour we won't have illegal workers taking away jobs from legal workers. That is a scary report.[B)]
Are you a true American? Or just from Dumbf*ckistan?
Give me a break. We're talking skilled versus service industry jobs. Get a grip. Try not to hate.
Welcome To Krautland. In Krautland, all problems are caused by illegal aliens or by not drilling for oil in places we have no right to drill. Personally, I just think the boy is just a mow-ron.
I had to put him on the ignore list because I couldn't stand reading his opinions that Wal*Mart is great and people walking dogs are bad. If everyone would stop replying to that drivel with the quote I could just pass on by but morbid curiosity gets the best of me (kinda like scrolling down to the responses to articles on the TulsaWorld website, or perhaps a train wreck but I suspect train wrecks are better informed). SK is a troll, and one that doesn't even live in Tulsa.
But he visited Tulsa in 1978!
quote:
Originally posted by perspicuity85
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
That is alot of people who are losing their jobs. This is one good reason for Oklahoma's 1804, when the economy turns sour we won't have illegal workers taking away jobs from legal workers. That is a scary report.[B)]
Yessss, all of those skilled airline mechanics coming to Tulsa from the northern Mexican provinces!!
Most illegal immigrant workers cut chicken's heads off for a living-- they don't work in highly skilled and unionized airline maintenance bases.
Dumbass.
That affects many other jobs it has a snowball effect when many people lose jobs. Those airline workers ate in restaurnats, shoped in stores and spent money in the city. The layed off workers will have to look for other jobs and it's not right if they have to line up for jobs along with people who are not even supposed to be here. This is their bread & butter. I live in Ohio and when a plant closes up it affects thousands of other jobs. Ohio lost 45,000 jobs last year. We have an unemployment rate of around 7.0 percent, It's so bad that even some illegal aliens are going to other states to find work because Ohio has none. Michigan is worse than Ohio. I know alot about hard times and job loss I have seen too much of it. I know people who lost jobs and my own company is cutting back. The last thing I want to see is a illegal alien dis-placing a legal person in a job.[xx(]
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
quote:
Originally posted by perspicuity85
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
That is alot of people who are losing their jobs. This is one good reason for Oklahoma's 1804, when the economy turns sour we won't have illegal workers taking away jobs from legal workers. That is a scary report.[B)]
Yessss, all of those skilled airline mechanics coming to Tulsa from the northern Mexican provinces!!
Most illegal immigrant workers cut chicken's heads off for a living-- they don't work in highly skilled and unionized airline maintenance bases.
Dumbass.
That affects many other jobs it has a snowball effect when many people lose jobs. Those airline workers ate in restaurnats, shoped in stores and spent money in the city. The layed off workers will have to look for other jobs and it's not right if they have to line up for jobs along with people who are not even supposed to be here. This is their bread & butter. I live in Ohio and when a plant closes up it affects thousands of other jobs. Ohio lost 45,000 jobs last year. We have an unemployment rate of around 7.0 percent, It's so bad that even some illegal aliens are going to other states to find work because Ohio has none. Michigan is worse than Ohio. I know alot about hard times and job loss I have seen too much of it. I know people who lost jobs and my own company is cutting back. The last thing I want to see is a illegal alien dis-placing a legal person in a job.[xx(]
\
SK I see you are now going from moard to board with your BS about Illegals. For someone who refuses to vote you sure spew alot of hatred.
What part of "law breaker" or "illegal" don't you understand? In Colorado at the Swift Plant thousands of LEGAL people lined up for the jobs after the ICE/INS Raid last year. Jobs Americans don't want to do. It's bad when alot of people are thrown out of work, it has a ripple effect all over.[B)]
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
What part of "law breaker" or "illegal" don't you understand? In Colorado at the Swift Plant thousands of LEGAL people lined up for the jobs after the ICE/INS Raid last year. Jobs Americans don't want to do. It's bad when alot of people are thrown out of work, it has a ripple effect all over.[B)]
Kraut I believe the people on here know more then you do.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
quote:
Originally posted by perspicuity85
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
That is alot of people who are losing their jobs. This is one good reason for Oklahoma's 1804, when the economy turns sour we won't have illegal workers taking away jobs from legal workers. That is a scary report.[B)]
Yessss, all of those skilled airline mechanics coming to Tulsa from the northern Mexican provinces!!
Most illegal immigrant workers cut chicken's heads off for a living-- they don't work in highly skilled and unionized airline maintenance bases.
Dumbass.
That affects many other jobs it has a snowball effect when many people lose jobs. Those airline workers ate in restaurnats, shoped in stores and spent money in the city. The layed off workers will have to look for other jobs and it's not right if they have to line up for jobs along with people who are not even supposed to be here. This is their bread & butter. I live in Ohio and when a plant closes up it affects thousands of other jobs. Ohio lost 45,000 jobs last year. We have an unemployment rate of around 7.0 percent, It's so bad that even some illegal aliens are going to other states to find work because Ohio has none. Michigan is worse than Ohio. I know alot about hard times and job loss I have seen too much of it. I know people who lost jobs and my own company is cutting back. The last thing I want to see is a illegal alien dis-placing a legal person in a job.[xx(]
The general rule is a large layoff will have an effect of an aditional 10 to 12%. So AA's laying off 1500 will have a total effect of an additional 150 or so jobs.
quote:
Originally posted by carltonplace
quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyK
quote:
Originally posted by FOTD
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
That is alot of people who are losing their jobs. This is one good reason for Oklahoma's 1804, when the economy turns sour we won't have illegal workers taking away jobs from legal workers. That is a scary report.[B)]
Are you a true American? Or just from Dumbf*ckistan?
Give me a break. We're talking skilled versus service industry jobs. Get a grip. Try not to hate.
Welcome To Krautland. In Krautland, all problems are caused by illegal aliens or by not drilling for oil in places we have no right to drill. Personally, I just think the boy is just a mow-ron.
I had to put him on the ignore list because I couldn't stand reading his opinions that Wal*Mart is great and people walking dogs are bad. If everyone would stop replying to that drivel with the quote I could just pass on by but morbid curiosity gets the best of me (kinda like scrolling down to the responses to articles on the TulsaWorld website, or perhaps a train wreck but I suspect train wrecks are better informed). SK is a troll, and one that doesn't even live in Tulsa.
He doesn't have the brains to be a troll...or much of anything else, for that matter. He refuses to vote because he's afraid he'll be called for "jury duty". Despite this, he spouts off idiotic political opinions like a Political Analyst on crack. Whe he gets called on it, he gets bent. He got his arse on his shoulders because those of us at The Breakroom Board started giving him crap over his completely misinformed "opinions". The only "Opinions" he has are the ones he gets from Uber-Conservative AM radio shock jocks like Michael Savage. The only difference between SK and a stopped clock is that a stopped clock is right twice a day. I'm still trying to figure out how the boy is allowed to cross streets by himself. I'm not sure, but I believe SK would have issues finding his own butt in the dark even if he was using both hands, a flashlight and a map.
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
quote:
Originally posted by perspicuity85
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
That is alot of people who are losing their jobs. This is one good reason for Oklahoma's 1804, when the economy turns sour we won't have illegal workers taking away jobs from legal workers. That is a scary report.[B)]
Yessss, all of those skilled airline mechanics coming to Tulsa from the northern Mexican provinces!!
Most illegal immigrant workers cut chicken's heads off for a living-- they don't work in highly skilled and unionized airline maintenance bases.
Dumbass.
That affects many other jobs it has a snowball effect when many people lose jobs. Those airline workers ate in restaurnats, shoped in stores and spent money in the city. The layed off workers will have to look for other jobs and it's not right if they have to line up for jobs along with people who are not even supposed to be here. This is their bread & butter. I live in Ohio and when a plant closes up it affects thousands of other jobs. Ohio lost 45,000 jobs last year. We have an unemployment rate of around 7.0 percent, It's so bad that even some illegal aliens are going to other states to find work because Ohio has none. Michigan is worse than Ohio. I know alot about hard times and job loss I have seen too much of it. I know people who lost jobs and my own company is cutting back. The last thing I want to see is a illegal alien dis-placing a legal person in a job.[xx(]
Heeeeere's yer sign...you can add it to the other 3 you already have...
(http://users.binary.net/thomcat/Picts/sign.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by okietiger
quote:
Originally posted by sauerkraut
What part of "law breaker" or "illegal" don't you understand? In Colorado at the Swift Plant thousands of LEGAL people lined up for the jobs after the ICE/INS Raid last year. Jobs Americans don't want to do. It's bad when alot of people are thrown out of work, it has a ripple effect all over.[B)]
Kraut I believe the people on here know more then you do.
There are rocks on the hillsides that have a better grasp of current affairs and know more than SK does, let alone people.