Highway 75 in Tulsa and Central Freeway in Dallas are the same road but a lot of little towns get in the way between here and there.
Not long ago I read that OKC was looking to create a direct highway link to Denver. Now there's a city that understands commerce.
Then I try to drive to Dallas but find that Highway 75 and the Indian Nations Turnpike peter out into little towns with speed traps and stop signs.
If we had a direct highway connection to Dallas we would cut 45 minutes off of the 4.5 hour drive and chances are some of that money busting out of those corporate palaces lining Central Freeway would roll on up to T-town.
Tulsa looks awful sweet and cheap from the vantage of big bossy Dallas. Bet they would think we are a bargain and do some business here. What are we going to have to do to get uninterrupted 4 lane highway between here and Dallas?
But, you see, any change would require support from the state of Oklahoma. They already charge on every highway out of town that goes anywhere in any amount of time you'd want to get there in; why make it easier on us?
I agree, that "highway" through Atoka, etc., is basically welfare for those towns and their police departments.
I do get a good chuckle of the pictures of Gene Stipe at Pete's Place when I'm in that part of the world.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Highway 75 in Tulsa and Central Freeway in Dallas are the same road but a lot of little towns get in the way between here and there.
Not long ago I read that OKC was looking to create a direct highway link to Denver. Now there's a city that understands commerce.
Then I try to drive to Dallas but find that Highway 75 and the Indian Nations Turnpike peter out into little towns with speed traps and stop signs.
If we had a direct highway connection to Dallas we would cut 45 minutes off of the 4.5 hour drive and chances are some of that money busting out of those corporate palaces lining Central Freeway would roll on up to T-town.
Tulsa looks awful sweet and cheap from the vantage of big bossy Dallas. Bet they would think we are a bargain and do some business here. What are we going to have to do to get uninterrupted 4 lane highway between here and Dallas?
it takes you 4.5 hrs to make it into Dallas? The last time I checked, it was only about 210 miles to dallas from my house, which if I do the quick math, would make the avg speed about 46.6 mph. I know there are quite a few small towns with lower speed limits, but you can do 80-85mph on the indian nation, and 70-75 from the texas state line all the way through denison, sherman and north dallas. How does it take 4.5hrs??
That is Mapquest's time estimate from my house in North Tulsa to my friend's home in Oak Cliff. 4.5 hours. I guess they are figuring in the time spent behind slow trucks on 2 lane highway and all those stop signs and reduced speed zones in small towns.
Now if you are driving from 71st Street and Hwy 75 to LBJ Freeway you could reduce the total time a little.
My guesstimate is that if we had uninterrupted 4 lane from here to there we could shave 45 minutes off of the time it takes to drive from here to there.
But I'll go with your numbers. Would you agree that a direct uninterrupted drive to Dallas might save business some money and improve business between there and here?
The State government in Oklahoma City will continue to block any attempts to create a legitimate highway between Tulsa and Dallas. They want the growth corridor you described to be I-35 through OKC. They have no interest in furthering Tulsa's fortunes in that regard. It will never happen. Not in our lifetimes.
quote:
Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
The State government in Oklahoma City will continue to block any attempts to create a legitimate highway between Tulsa and Dallas. They want the growth corridor you described to be I-35 through OKC. They have no interest in furthering Tulsa's fortunes in that regard. It will never happen. Not in our lifetimes.
I believe you. And this is exactly what I am getting at. How did OKC accomplish this? How can we overcome it? We have the wealthiest zip code in OK. We have a pool of very talented attorneys. Why can't this be changed?
It is as if there was a decision made that the state can only support one city and we lost out. I want to fight back.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
quote:
Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
The State government in Oklahoma City will continue to block any attempts to create a legitimate highway between Tulsa and Dallas. They want the growth corridor you described to be I-35 through OKC. They have no interest in furthering Tulsa's fortunes in that regard. It will never happen. Not in our lifetimes.
I believe you. And this is exactly what I am getting at. How did OKC accomplish this? How can we overcome it. We have the wealthiest zip code in OK. We have a pool of very talented attorneys. Why can't this be changed?
Pay off all the small districts representing dirt and maybe you have a shot. Don't hold your breath.
We can't even get I-44 widened effeciently.
quote:
Originally posted by TUalum0982
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Highway 75 in Tulsa and Central Freeway in Dallas are the same road but a lot of little towns get in the way between here and there.
Not long ago I read that OKC was looking to create a direct highway link to Denver. Now there's a city that understands commerce.
Then I try to drive to Dallas but find that Highway 75 and the Indian Nations Turnpike peter out into little towns with speed traps and stop signs.
If we had a direct highway connection to Dallas we would cut 45 minutes off of the 4.5 hour drive and chances are some of that money busting out of those corporate palaces lining Central Freeway would roll on up to T-town.
Tulsa looks awful sweet and cheap from the vantage of big bossy Dallas. Bet they would think we are a bargain and do some business here. What are we going to have to do to get uninterrupted 4 lane highway between here and Dallas?
it takes you 4.5 hrs to make it into Dallas? The last time I checked, it was only about 210 miles to dallas from my house, which if I do the quick math, would make the avg speed about 46.6 mph. I know there are quite a few small towns with lower speed limits, but you can do 80-85mph on the indian nation, and 70-75 from the texas state line all the way through denison, sherman and north dallas. How does it take 4.5hrs??
Mapquest has the drive from downtown to downtown as 4:18. Going from Tulsa to Dallas takes me right at 4.0 hrs, moving as fast as I can without getting a ticket, on a Sunday morning. Always takes more like 4.5 going the other way out of Dallas, because of commuter traffic going as far north as McKinney.
I drive this a lot and would love a super-slab to get from point A to point B as fast as possible. BUT--to play a little devil's advocate--this would also mean missing out on all the produce stands and junk sales that give southeastern Oklahoma ("Little Dixie") so much character. Moving traffic off of the main streets to an interstate would cost the economies of small towns like Atoka and Savanna, and not just in speeding tickets (the one ticket I got recently was courtesy of the Caddo police department, right where the road becomes a four lane divided highway south of the Bryan-Atoka county line).
You put an interstate in that corridor, and you will trade mom and pop stands selling preserves for Chili's and Outback Steakhouses. Just look at the difference between Durant and Atoka. There's some value in small town traffic throughfares.
Also, how would you route around Okmulgee/Glenpool?
I'm old enough to remember driving 66 to LA. And I found the best fried chicken I've had since I was a kid in Henryetta on the way back from Dallas, but ...
We are talking about livelihoods. I want to make as much money as my counterparts in Dallas. I want Tulsa to thrive.
My mother always said "charity begins at home."
Atoka and Durant can take care of themselves. And I say drive right past Okmulgee and don't let them off the 4-lane until they've reached beautiful T-town, where they can spend all the money they want.
Payoffs? Good point Gold. I'm ready to pay another penny tax or whatever it takes to bribe all the podunk districts necessary.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Payoffs? Good point Gold. I'm ready to pay another penny tax or whatever it takes to bribe all the podunk districts necessary.
Why do you think that part of the state has a huge prison and a mental health facility? [;)]
according to Google maps
from 6th and Denver to Knox and Henderson the mileage and drive time are 253 mi – about 4 hours 16 mins
From my trips that sounds about right.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
That is Mapquest's time estimate from my house in North Tulsa to my friend's home in Oak Cliff. 4.5 hours. I guess they are figuring in the time spent behind slow trucks on 2 lane highway and all those stop signs and reduced speed zones in small towns.
Now if you are driving from 71st Street and Hwy 75 to LBJ Freeway you could reduce the total time a little.
My guesstimate is that if we had uninterrupted 4 lane from here to there we could shave 45 minutes off of the time it takes to drive from here to there.
But I'll go with your numbers. Would you agree that a direct uninterrupted drive to Dallas might save business some money and improve business between there and here?
4.5 hours is probably accurate if you are talking about driving from north of the IDL to Oak Cliff. Mostly due to congestion getting through Dallas.
I think the whole route has only been 4 lanes in the last 20 years. I still remember parts of the road between McAllester and Atoka being two lanes as recently as '88 or '90.
I used to make it from roughly 101st & Yale to my hotel within a mile of Texas Stadium in 3:50 to 4:00 (after four-laning all the way) if I left around 6pm from Tulsa, that avoided most of the traffic. I'd take 75 all the way to the north loop of LBJ West then over to Irving. IMO, the few speed zones and traffic lights won't eat up near the time that rush hour congestion will. By-passing the bumpkinville trail would likely only save 10 to 15 minutes overall.
Not arguing it wouldn't be a good idea to by-pass, but OKC won't get around to it for years. Maybe it could be more reality now that Gene Stipe is no longer running the state.
Interestingly, it didn't take much more time to go "door-to-door" from home to my destination in Dallas whether I flew there or drove. If I was going for the day, it made better sense to fly, just to avoid an donkey-pain 8 hour drive. If I was going to be there a week, I couldn't stand to be w/o my car.
Conan, just one of those Bumpkinvilles takes 15 minutes. If you get stuck behind a truck forget it. And there's still some two lane between here and there. I want Autobahn. Good for the bottom line.
Agree to disagree--I see the value in terms of commerce, but I also like stopping to get fresh peaches on my way between stops.
The other annoying thing I could do without is that casino down there--sometimes traffic backs up at the stoplights and you lose time.
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Agree to disagree--I see the value in terms of commerce, but I also like stopping to get fresh peaches on my way between stops.
The other annoying thing I could do without is that casino down there--sometimes traffic backs up at the stoplights and you lose time.
I can't stand that stoplight. I've come through there so many times in highway mode. That part of the road is just a mess.
Peaches!?! What are you Floyd? A hedonist?
Okay if the bribes don't work and if OKC won't let us have it I say split the state. Succession.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Conan, just one of those Bumpkinvilles takes 15 minutes. If you get stuck behind a truck forget it. And there's still some two lane between here and there. I want Autobahn. Good for the bottom line.
I disagree...Atoka is tops 5 minutes to get through; even with a light and even behind a truck.
And, unless it's restricted by construction, no stretch of that highway is anything under 4 lanes.
I can count on one hand the number of towns you drive through. You don't even drive through Stringtown, you drive above it. Okmulgee, Atoka, Tushka and Kiowa. That's it. Okmulgee and Atoka are the two largest. Tushka slows you down because of Barney Fife patrolling up and down the highway. Kiowa's not near as bad either. And you have the one light in Henryetta.
quote:
Originally posted by Hometown
Conan, just one of those Bumpkinvilles takes 15 minutes. If you get stuck behind a truck forget it. And there's still some two lane between here and there. I want Autobahn. Good for the bottom line.
Where is there 2 lanes between Tulsa and Dallas using 75 - Indian Nation - 69 - 75 - Central expressway? Have I missed it? And Atoka doesn't take all that long even with a lot of trucks. Okmulgee is the one I hate. That and the red light at Choctaw World.
Maybe it just felt like two lanes. I stand corrected.
My point is that it would be good for business in Tulsa if we could cut the drive time between Tulsa and Dallas.
But it may take an enlightened despot to make it happen.
You see Joiei, when I was growing up here, OKC was a sleepy cow town and Tulsa was a sophisticated eastward looking city. We were fat and sassy with lots of oil business.
I left Tulsa for the first time during high school and returned three years ago. I'm still getting used to all the changes and trying to decipher how we can build on our strengths.
I can't stand second rate anything. I can't handle OKC being smarter and more successful than us.
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Agree to disagree--I see the value in terms of commerce, but I also like stopping to get fresh peaches on my way between stops.
The other annoying thing I could do without is that casino down there--sometimes traffic backs up at the stoplights and you lose time.
IMO, the tribe should be responsible to build a fly-over and exit ramps for that cluster-**** of a place.
I also think the Cherokee Tribe should pony up part of the cost for 193rd E. Ave improvements and to help replace the I-44 bridge there.
We are just now finally getting ODOT to start paying more attention to the 244/75 bridge over the Arkansas, 15th & 21st on the BA (obvious corrosion and concrete issues), and 161st and 193rd on I-44. They should have already started replacing 161st two years ago when concrete started falling off cars.
They also need to do something about the holes and ****ty expansion-joint fixes on the IDL. It's a toss up of which is worse- my truck having to run through the ruts or picking my way through them on my motorcycle.
I'm a little more worried about that right now than spending five minutes in Atoka
if we had to name our priorities.
It took me a little over 4 hours this weekend when I went to look at places to live and a school down there.
Oh, and...I got a speeding ticket. Sweet.
::rolleyes::
quote:
Originally posted by Conan71
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
Agree to disagree--I see the value in terms of commerce, but I also like stopping to get fresh peaches on my way between stops.
The other annoying thing I could do without is that casino down there--sometimes traffic backs up at the stoplights and you lose time.
IMO, the tribe should be responsible to build a fly-over and exit ramps for that cluster-**** of a place.
I also think the Cherokee Tribe should pony up part of the cost for 193rd E. Ave improvements and to help replace the I-44 bridge there.
I think they just donated $11,000,000 to speed up the rebuilding of that whole intersection. It was in the paper, like headlines and all.
quote:
Originally posted by deinstein
It took me a little over 4 hours this weekend when I went to look at places to live and a school down there.
Oh, and...I got a speeding ticket. Sweet.
::rolleyes::
You moving to Big D?
I would really like bypasses around Okmulgee and the towns between the Indian Nations TPK and Texas. I think Okmulgee already has a sort of a bypass part way the east side. It just doesn't continue to the south side of the city. The little towns claim the lower speed limits are for the safety of their citizens. Think how much safer it would be if the traffic went around the city on a limited access highway rather than through town. There are impulse buyers to be sure but I think the majority of through traffic is exactly that... going through. If you want to drive through the small town for whatever reason, get of the highway and do it. It's hard to tell how much time it would save but the trip would be safer, less expensive (if the state keeps Barney Fife off the expressway), and probably be a little more fuel efficient since there would be cruise control the whole way. Mostly it would be less annoying.
For me the most important issue here is how has OKC been able to thwart Tulsa. Tulsa has the wealthiest zip code in Oklahoma. Can't we leverage that into political power in state government?
We have let state government thwart our attempts to get a state university. We have let OKC determine there will be only one growth corridor and reserve it for themselves.
Since when is Tulsa a helpless victim on the receiving end of everything? People that have spent their lives watching this dynamic evolve could explain the mechanics behind OKC's dominance. I wish you would explain it to me.
If we can't even compete with a city with less talent and potential in our own state we have a very serious problem. Is it incompetence of our elected officials? Is it a matter of numbers? Is it that OKC is larger and controls more votes? Is Kathy Taylor Brad Henry's point person in Tulsa?
Well HT, I agree with you. It seems OKC can get their state delegation together to make the State work for them. Perhaps it's just perception, but Tulsa does not do nearly as good of a job. Or, at very least, has not in the past.
Highway construction
Access to Highways (toll/non-toll)
Public Hospitals
Public 4-year Colleges
Funding for Entertainment
Governmental Jobs
There's my short list. Perhaps I'm just jealous. But it seems to be somewhat justified.
/knocks chip off of shoulder
HT, my observation is that it is more related to the rural areas of the state. When the rest of the state says, "Lets go to the city", they are referring to OKC not Tulsa. Gaylord's publication and the airwaves in the lower 2/3 of the state are dominant. OKC is in a major market, we are not. Our city slicker personality does not compare favorably to their cowtown personality though neither one is accurate.
What that means is that they are more likely to make alliances with, and defer to, the OKC leadership. The challenges are not unlike our own city where we divide between suburban and townie.
Secession seems unlikely any more than South Tulsa leaving the metro though both are pleasant thoughts.
Something dawned on me. OKC might have just gotten dumb luck for being drawn into the I-35 corridor and that's why they got four-laned and bypassed to DFW a long-time ago. Though, 75 is a U.S. highway, yes?
If they would have decided Wichita didn't need to be on the Interstate system, it would have made very good sense to run I-35 from DFW through Tulsa on to Kansas City.
/\/\/\/\ If you look at the Chisholm Trail, I-35 follows that pathway to get cattle from Texas to market in Kansas City.
quote:
Originally posted by Floyd
quote:
Originally posted by deinstein
It took me a little over 4 hours this weekend when I went to look at places to live and a school down there.
Oh, and...I got a speeding ticket. Sweet.
::rolleyes::
You moving to Big D?
I'm thinking about going to the Urban Planning school in Arlington. I'd live in Ft. Worth rather than Dallas though.
...speaking of which. Why doesn't OSU-Tulsa get an urban planning program? That would do wonders for the school and the area.
Using Google Earth, I came up with a few numbers. A path following the existing highway when possible, while bypassing congested areas and towns would be approx. 260 miles from the SW corner of the IDL to the I-30/I-45/US 75 interchange in Dallas. This would be a controlled-access highway with no at-grade intersections, therefore in normal traffic there would be no stops between Tulsa and Dallas. I calculated the approx. travel times:
average of 60 MPH: 4 hr 20 min
average of 65 MPH: 4 hr
average of 70 MPH: 3 hr 45 min
average of 75 MPH: 3 hrs 30 min
It would be possible to average 75 without the variable of the highway patrol and with traffic in the Dallas metro flowing normally. It would probably be possible to average 65-70 without speeding, especially if the road from McAlester to the Red River were a turnpike with a SL of 75 which would probably put the average speed above 70 MPH.
Not only would a new highway save time, it would be far safer than the current road and a drive to Dallas would be much less stressful. And it would have the added benefit of starving those speed trap towns out of existence.
quote:
Originally posted by bugo
Using Google Earth, I came up with a few numbers. A path following the existing highway when possible, while bypassing congested areas and towns would be approx. 260 miles from the SW corner of the IDL to the I-30/I-45/US 75 interchange in Dallas. This would be a controlled-access highway with no at-grade intersections, therefore in normal traffic there would be no stops between Tulsa and Dallas. I calculated the approx. travel times:
average of 60 MPH: 4 hr 20 min
average of 65 MPH: 4 hr
average of 70 MPH: 3 hr 45 min
average of 75 MPH: 3 hrs 30 min
It would be possible to average 75 without the variable of the highway patrol and with traffic in the Dallas metro flowing normally. It would probably be possible to average 65-70 without speeding, especially if the road from McAlester to the Red River were a turnpike with a SL of 75 which would probably put the average speed above 70 MPH.
Not only would a new highway save time, it would be far safer than the current road and a drive to Dallas would be much less stressful. And it would have the added benefit of starving those speed trap towns out of existence.
Interstate 31 (as it would be called, although it wouldn't fit the current numbering scheme as it is east of I-35 and the number is less) has been theorized. This would essentially make highway 69/75 from Dallas to Omaha interstate grade. Problem is the money needs to be appropriated from the highway fund to do this first.
quote:
Originally posted by deinstein
I'm thinking about going to the Urban Planning school in Arlington. I'd live in Ft. Worth rather than Dallas though.
...speaking of which. Why doesn't OSU-Tulsa get an urban planning program? That would do wonders for the school and the area.
Checked out OU-Tulsa? The Urban Design Studio is a solid program.
http://tulsagrad.ou.edu/studio/ (//%22http://tulsagrad.ou.edu/studio/%22)
quote:
Originally posted by bugo
And it would have the added benefit of starving those speed trap towns out of existence.
Yea...let's kill the small towns of Oklahoma...who needs em?
From OKC you can drive to the D/FW MetroPlex without taking any toll roads, from Tulsa you have to take a short toll road. The D/FW area is a great place to live/visit theres lots to do, and the climate is mild and sunny most of the year. I'd favor a new road to Dallas but as long as it does not turn out to be another toll road, Oklahoma has enough of those.
quote:
Originally posted by AgentOrange
quote:
Originally posted by bugo
And it would have the added benefit of starving those speed trap towns out of existence.
Yea...let's kill the small towns of Oklahoma...who needs em?
The traveling public needs small towns without them there would be no place to stop for fuel or get help if you have car trouble, you'd have to drive from large city to large city. Dallas & Fort Worth are Rival cities in a way, but on the other hand the D/FW MetroPlex is like one big city of 6 million people and is one of the fastest growing places in the USA.[:)]
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by bugo
Using Google Earth, I came up with a few numbers. A path following the existing highway when possible, while bypassing congested areas and towns would be approx. 260 miles from the SW corner of the IDL to the I-30/I-45/US 75 interchange in Dallas. This would be a controlled-access highway with no at-grade intersections, therefore in normal traffic there would be no stops between Tulsa and Dallas. I calculated the approx. travel times:
average of 60 MPH: 4 hr 20 min
average of 65 MPH: 4 hr
average of 70 MPH: 3 hr 45 min
average of 75 MPH: 3 hrs 30 min
It would be possible to average 75 without the variable of the highway patrol and with traffic in the Dallas metro flowing normally. It would probably be possible to average 65-70 without speeding, especially if the road from McAlester to the Red River were a turnpike with a SL of 75 which would probably put the average speed above 70 MPH.
Not only would a new highway save time, it would be far safer than the current road and a drive to Dallas would be much less stressful. And it would have the added benefit of starving those speed trap towns out of existence.
Interstate 31 (as it would be called, although it wouldn't fit the current numbering scheme as it is east of I-35 and the number is less) has been theorized. This would essentially make highway 69/75 from Dallas to Omaha interstate grade. Problem is the money needs to be appropriated from the highway fund to do this first.
All you guys complaining about toll roads, do you ever take the toll roads to get around Dallas?
quote:
Originally posted by The Cynic
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
quote:
Originally posted by bugo
Using Google Earth, I came up with a few numbers. A path following the existing highway when possible, while bypassing congested areas and towns would be approx. 260 miles from the SW corner of the IDL to the I-30/I-45/US 75 interchange in Dallas. This would be a controlled-access highway with no at-grade intersections, therefore in normal traffic there would be no stops between Tulsa and Dallas. I calculated the approx. travel times:
average of 60 MPH: 4 hr 20 min
average of 65 MPH: 4 hr
average of 70 MPH: 3 hr 45 min
average of 75 MPH: 3 hrs 30 min
It would be possible to average 75 without the variable of the highway patrol and with traffic in the Dallas metro flowing normally. It would probably be possible to average 65-70 without speeding, especially if the road from McAlester to the Red River were a turnpike with a SL of 75 which would probably put the average speed above 70 MPH.
Not only would a new highway save time, it would be far safer than the current road and a drive to Dallas would be much less stressful. And it would have the added benefit of starving those speed trap towns out of existence.
Interstate 31 (as it would be called, although it wouldn't fit the current numbering scheme as it is east of I-35 and the number is less) has been theorized. This would essentially make highway 69/75 from Dallas to Omaha interstate grade. Problem is the money needs to be appropriated from the highway fund to do this first.
There's alot of talk in Congress to bring back the 55 MPH speed limit to save oil and so we won't have to drill Alaska or off shore. I guess the movement is picking up steam in congress. History repeats it's self. 55 mph was a failure back in the 1970's and it'll be a failure today. The speedlimits should be a state's right anyhow.[xx(]
quote:
Originally posted by AgentOrange
quote:
Originally posted by bugo
And it would have the added benefit of starving those speed trap towns out of existence.
Yea...let's kill the small towns of Oklahoma...who needs em?
If the only reason they survive is by preying on motorists, then I say good riddance.
Poteau got a bypass, and it's still going strong. Why can't the towns on the 69 corridor survive?
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
Interstate 31 (as it would be called, although it wouldn't fit the current numbering scheme as it is east of I-35 and the number is less) has been theorized. This would essentially make highway 69/75 from Dallas to Omaha interstate grade. Problem is the money needs to be appropriated from the highway fund to do this first.
I-31? Where did you hear that? A better number for the road would be 45, which ends at the same exact interchange that 75 currently ends (it used to continue to Galveston.)
Speaking of I-31, did you know that I-31 was the number proposed for I-29 north of Fargo? The original Interstate plan had a gap in the current I-29 corridor between I-90 and I-94.
quote:
Originally posted by bugo
quote:
Originally posted by AgentOrange
quote:
Originally posted by bugo
And it would have the added benefit of starving those speed trap towns out of existence.
Yea...let's kill the small towns of Oklahoma...who needs em?
If the only reason they survive is by preying on motorists, then I say good riddance.
Poteau got a bypass, and it's still going strong. Why can't the towns on the 69 corridor survive?
Indeed, we had a town like that in Ohio and the state shut it down in 2004 after many decades of driver abuse. The town even rang up bogus charges on drivers. Drivers were known to avoid going thru that town. The town was only 3 blocks long and 2 blocks wide and had 60 residents and 20 cops. They say the town got about $350,000 to $400,000 in traffic fines a year and they ran their budget on that. Here's a web site about it. www.newromesucks.com
quote:
Originally posted by bugo
quote:
Originally posted by Hoss
Interstate 31 (as it would be called, although it wouldn't fit the current numbering scheme as it is east of I-35 and the number is less) has been theorized. This would essentially make highway 69/75 from Dallas to Omaha interstate grade. Problem is the money needs to be appropriated from the highway fund to do this first.
I-31? Where did you hear that? A better number for the road would be 45, which ends at the same exact interchange that 75 currently ends (it used to continue to Galveston.)
Speaking of I-31, did you know that I-31 was the number proposed for I-29 north of Fargo? The original Interstate plan had a gap in the current I-29 corridor between I-90 and I-94.
Hey, a web site proposed it, not me....and I agree, I-45 would be a logical number since it's merely and extension and does run east of I-35. BUT...Interstate designations using the last digit of 5 north/south indicate a MAJOR interstate. Not sure that would still be major. Hell, I wasn't sure it was major between Dallas and Houston. I've driven that stretch of road more than I can recall.
quote:
Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE
The State government in Oklahoma City will continue to block any attempts to create a legitimate highway between Tulsa and Dallas. They want the growth corridor you described to be I-35 through OKC. They have no interest in furthering Tulsa's fortunes in that regard. It will never happen. Not in our lifetimes.
You honestly believe the state is trying to screw Tulsa? [8)]
Tulsa city government is in bad shape and the citizens of tulsa are so divided and partisan that they can't see whats good/bad for their own town. Tulsa needs to fix its problems and the money and businesses will come back. This attitude of blaming anyone and everything except the city of Tulsa is just prolonging the problem! The state isn't trying to screw Tulsa.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
HT, my observation is that it is more related to the rural areas of the state. When the rest of the state says, "Lets go to the city", they are referring to OKC not Tulsa. Gaylord's publication and the airwaves in the lower 2/3 of the state are dominant. OKC is in a major market, we are not. Our city slicker personality does not compare favorably to their cowtown personality though neither one is accurate.
What that means is that they are more likely to make alliances with, and defer to, the OKC leadership. The challenges are not unlike our own city where we divide between suburban and townie.
Secession seems unlikely any more than South Tulsa leaving the metro though both are pleasant thoughts.
Growing up in the SE part of the state, I'd say your observation is spot on. Everyone just assumes there's only one city in Oklahoma, and that city is Oklahoma City. I'm not sure why, Tulsa is MUCH more attractive and pleasant.
I see no reason why the state of Oklahoma would want to hold down "T" Towne. OKC does have the advantage as being a straight shot into the D/FW MetroPlex. The more growth the state allows in Oklahoma the better it is for everyone... OKC is one of the largest cities area-wise in the USA the other one is Jacksonville, FL. I forgot which one is in the #1 spot. OKC is really vast and spread out no question about that. I am a big fan of Fort Worth Texas, I think that's a great city and a good place to raise a family. But that's just me and my opinion.[:P]
Fort Worth has some real housing bargans, I looked at some homes on-line. $50,000 can buy a nice small size home in a good area of the city in far west Fort Worth, and around Benbrook Lake. (I seen an ad for one home that has mineral rights included in the sale in far south Fort Worth- that's a good deal) On a side note, I was happy to learn that downtown Fort Worth kept that tornado damaged skyscraper and turned it into a apartments. There was talk around 2003 of tearing it down. That was a nice skyscraper until a twister hit it. Today it looks nice once more.. I came across some pictures on google of the F-2 twister that hit downtown Fort Worth in March of 2000 it's pretty intresting to see and read about. Makes one wonder what a F-5 twister could do to a downtown area.