KOTV had an entirely wierd take on this story (//%22http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=8439543%22), in which a Tulsan is severely injured following a nuisance call to the popo.
Basically, the only thing a Tulsan should do is cower inside his/her car/house in the face of thugs and threats. In my case, I was assault and beat by a trespassing grifter contractor trying to extort money/sign placement. When the popo show all the assailant has to do is say the victim hit first, and in the current case sounds like the thugs would have had the requisite witness. In fact, the so-called victim would have been arrested and there would have been no investigation. Give it up, Tulsans, ya'll ain't in Bedford Falls no more! My advice: cling to your guns (and ALWAYS fire a warning shot . . .)
In related news, Kenneth Gumm (//%22http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080530_14_A1_hTheRi146269%22) decides that he does not have the resources to fight tough-on-crime DA Harris, and accepts a 1st Degree Manslaughter charge for defending himself against a drunk meth-user.
Remains to be seen, but I think he will get the whole sentence suspended. I'm sure he looked at the legal costs and figured it was his best alternative.
Hopefully Harris will draw a better opponent next time instead of a two-bit plea bargainer with a Tulsa oil legacy.
Well what exactly is a Tulsan do do? Someone (think: the good doc) calls five times and no popo, another dude (Gumm) shoots the dude in self-defense and gets a ruined life, the interloper in the KOTV story is commended for doing the right thing and gets his cheek broken and the vermin are still nesting down the street. In my instance, I get jeered by the cops who show up who let some dude issue a false statement and now cruises my neighborhood regularly as if to taunt me.
My advice is for Tulsans to cower inside their houses after dark, let the thugs take over the neighborhoods, and to never call you-know-who over stupid stuff. Never trust strangers, do not ever open the door, mind your own business. Be a snitch and pay the price.
Not sure what popo is, but I assume from the post you mean the police? How old are you anyway? 3? If I were the police and I read that I would jeer at you and not help you either. Sounds to me like you have an attitude problem and probably deserve all the crap and hassle you get from people. You have sure made me not like you. I hope thats the response your wanting, cause thats what your getting. And I bet its probably not just from me.
Do not care what the heck you think or if you like me or not. ***. I know I am old enough to know when some contractor grifter moves into town, lies about the terms of the service he offered, tries to shake me down for money, refuses to leave my property, hits me and runs away that is not right. Then when the popo show up he lies and says I hit him and that he has witnesses and the popo are too lazy or apathetic to apply the slightest amount of effort to determine the truth of the situation. I am old enough to know how to see that a grifter contractor has $12k in judgments against him in Ohio. I am old enough to know when two POS civil servants let some dude get away with all that.
So the rube who got beat down did the right thing? How? By having his face broken by the vermin infesting his hood and no one can do a damn thing about it?
I hope you get assaulted and when the cops show up the assailant lies and they do nothing. Until then, shove off. Fer the record, I do not get crap from many people. Just grifters and trolls . . .
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
KOTV had an entirely wierd take on this story (//%22http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=8439543%22)
You would think KOTV would have the resources, but crime reporting in Tulsa doesnt go much beyond re-formating police reports.
The reason it all looks and sounds the same is most stories are practically verbatim from the Public Information Officer.
It also tends to be biased at the source, as well. When you see a headline "Officer hurt in wreck" you might find he got some stitches while much further down find the other driver critical or dead. Its just not good journalism.
Well, that is interesting. D'ya suppose that TPD prompted the story or KOTV just felt compelled to tell Tulsans that they should always call the cops? Even if you get your face broken? Weird.
What it all boils down to, is do I have the right to defend myself or not? When I lived and worked in the New Orleans area (and yes, crime rate and all), I would occasionally find myself having to display a show of force (and it didn't often go beyond that) to deter certain people from hustling me or worse. And I make no apologies. I've never been mugged or strongarmed or had to pay "protection" to anyone, nor have I ever found myself in intensive care for injuries sustained by any miscreants preying upon the populace. They want willing victims, and when they see that this isn't here for them, sooner or later they move on.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Do not care what the heck you think or if you like me or not. ***. I know I am old enough to know when some contractor grifter moves into town, lies about the terms of the service he offered, tries to shake me down for money, refuses to leave my property, hits me and runs away that is not right. Then when the popo show up he lies and says I hit him and that he has witnesses and the popo are too lazy or apathetic to apply the slightest amount of effort to determine the truth of the situation. I am old enough to know how to see that a grifter contractor has $12k in judgments against him in Ohio. I am old enough to know when two POS civil servants let some dude get away with all that.
So the rube who got beat down did the right thing? How? By having his face broken by the vermin infesting his hood and no one can do a damn thing about it?
I hope you get assaulted and when the cops show up the assailant lies and they do nothing. Until then, shove off. Fer the record, I do not get crap from many people. Just grifters and trolls . . .
Its obvious you dont care if I like you. Your language seems to suggest you dont care if anyone likes you, even those that are supposed to help you. The police arent always perfect, and may have indeed screwed up, but then calling them names isnt going to get you any sympathy or positive response from them.
Call them out, demand that they do the right thing. State your case loud and clear. But as soon as you start calling names,,, well good luck with that strategy. You have just become the bad guy regardless of whether you originally had a legitimate beef or not.
Sounds like you have been wronged, but how on earth can anyone be on your side if you start doing the wrong thing in response?
Yeah, well, there you go, damn right I gotta beef. You just do not like me because I think that phoney Tuscan style looks like @$$. [;)]
Dunno, Mister Jaynes, what a Tulsan is to do. The story does not say. The moral of the story was supposed to be 'doing the right thing' but I am stymied about how that is arrived at. Dude calls the constabulary and gets his face broken. He seems resigned to the situation and ain't bugging out so why should I care?
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Yeah, well, there you go, damn right I gotta beef. You just do not like me because I think that phoney Tuscan style looks like @$$. [;)]
Dunno, Mister Jaynes, what a Tulsan is to do. The story does not say. The moral of the story was supposed to be 'doing the right thing' but I am stymied about how that is arrived at. Dude calls the constabulary and gets his face broken. He seems resigned to the situation and ain't bugging out so why should I care?
Well, my choice is, I'm not going to be a victim, and as I have that in mind, when I know it, and believe it, and live it, life gets that much more easier.
Amen, brother. But what to do when the system victimizes you? I mean, having some aho grifter contractor hit you, lie to the police, laugh in your face, and then stalk your neighborhood for months afterward is bad enough, but then to have the cops jeer at you and refuse to perform the slightest amount of effort to determine what happened? pancakes 2 do? And then to have some girly boy like 'the artist' suggest I deserved the incident?
I certainly will do everything I can to rid myself of victim mentality, but I will never, ever call the TPD again for any reason unless it is to have them draw a chalk outline about two feet inside my door. And even then, apparently, one should be sure to have the video recorder playing and be prepared for the District Attorney to wreak financial ruin on you.
I think you give yourself too much credit. I have never kept track of who does or doesnt like Faux Tuscan lol. As for girly man, I am not the one who got beat up, whined about it and then got jeered at by the popo lol. [8D]
Btw I didnt mean to suggest you deserved "the incedent",,, however if your the kind of person to call the police or others names, then it must stand to reason your less likely to be in a position to demand that they treat you fairly or garner any sympathy or even concern from them when you have been wronged.
Its one thing to be the kind of person who has been wronged and then complain about it and even demand that something be done to right the situation.
Its another thing to be the kind of person who has been wronged and then call people names.
Those are two different types of people even before an "incedent" occurs.
You are right, it did not happen to you. Frankly I hope it does not. There is nothing more frustrating than being assaulted, stalked, threatened, and then have your complaint summarily dismissed by the rocket scientists who are dispatched to the scene, even after the criminal issues a false statement to the cops. Then to have the same bunch of stooges pat some rube on the back for calling them and having his face broken for it.
You been sniffin' your paint tooooo much. pancakes does 'probably deserve all the crap' mean, then? I am not entirely blameless, in that I opened the door when the contractor knocked, and after I was assaulted called the popo. Big mistakes. 'Stand up for your neighborhood'? Wrong!
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
You are right, it did not happen to you. Frankly I hope it does not. There is nothing more frustrating than being assaulted, stalked, threatened, and then have your complaint summarily dismissed by the rocket scientists who are dispatched to the scene, even after the criminal issues a false statement to the cops. Then to have the same bunch of stooges pat some rube on the back for calling them and having his face broken for it.
You been sniffin' your paint tooooo much. pancakes does 'probably deserve all the crap' mean, then? I am not entirely blameless, in that I opened the door when the contractor knocked, and after I was assaulted called the popo. Big mistakes. 'Stand up for your neighborhood'? Wrong!
Perception
We have all run into people who seem to continually have "bad luck" and have bad things happen to them. Far more so than seems likely. But when we get to know them a bit we see that they have general attitudes, thoughts, ways of seeing and reacting to the world which put them in bad life situations. Or they even see the same situation as being negative or a person offending them, when another person would not see it that way. Or the negative attitude of a person just generating negative feedback from those around them. etc. After a while when we have seen many of these kinds of people we notice they have similar qualities. You also notice that even though it may seem like a small thing, over time those negative qualities add up in a persons life and they end up in jobs they dont like, around not so good people, in bad neighborhoods, unable to tell the difference between good and bad people and thus getting in more bad situations, etc. Actually creating in reality what was once mostly in their mind. Though they dont deserve every bad thing that happens to them,,, they certainly deserve quite a few. It becomes hard to untangle the tangled web of that persons life and determine which is more of which.
When I saw the name calling in your post it created the perception that you were one of those kinds of people.
I apologize if I was wrong. I dont often pay attention to who says what on here and just react to each post. Unless I have met the person or for some reason they stand out, I dont really know who everyone is and what their over all personality is like.
Artist, the police are obligated to protect and preserve the rights of ALL the citizens. Not just the ones who are courteous, gracious and righteous. It doesnt' matter if he had displayed a bad attitude, their interest is in the crime or prevention thereof.
Tim, what makes you think that the police were able to determine that your grifter contractor issued a false statement? They have to be non judicial in assembling the facts or make reasonable assumptions based on the circumstances and the stories presented. Unless they have direct observation or witness statements it was just your allegation versus his.
I saw the story on KOTV and didn't think much about it. To me it was one way of many to handle that situation. It was a counter to the emphasis on "make my day" laws, the rare stories of armed home invasions and the movement towards vigilantism as an answer to perceived rampant crime. Nothing wrong with calling the cops for what he saw happening but damned if I would have been sauntering past that home later by myself without some sort of defense plan.
Crime is actually decreasing in Tulsa according to a World story last week.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
Yeah, well, there you go, damn right I gotta beef. You just do not like me because I think that phoney Tuscan style looks like @$$. [;)]
Dunno, Mister Jaynes, what a Tulsan is to do. The story does not say. The moral of the story was supposed to be 'doing the right thing' but I am stymied about how that is arrived at. Dude calls the constabulary and gets his face broken. He seems resigned to the situation and ain't bugging out so why should I care?
The Tuscan Style, I assume, are those lovely roof tilings one sees on Italian and Spanish homes and throughout the Mediterranean? I think I'd by far like the original real deal for my roof, and not a new-world reinterpretation of it, but hey, that's just my tastes. Then again, my condo in Biloxi (which I've yet to flip) was my little castle, and I made sure the interior reflected that concept. Then again, I didn't have any say over the roof.
But I digress.
I would call the police, sure, but if they couldn't help me, I certainly wouldn't take that refusal to deal with this (nor my beat down itself) laying down. Of course, I do reserve the right to defend myself, and I'd call the law just as a way of covering myself a little more. And if I got arrested, well, so be it. That's what the courts are for, to make a ruckus, lol.
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Perception
We have all run into people who seem to continually have "bad luck" and have bad things happen to them. Far more so than seems likely. But when we get to know them a bit we see that they have general attitudes, thoughts, ways of seeing and reacting to the world which put them in bad life situations. Or they even see the same situation as being negative or a person offending them, when another person would not see it that way. Or the negative attitude of a person just generating negative feedback from those around them. etc. After a while when we have seen many of these kinds of people we notice they have similar qualities. You also notice that even though it may seem like a small thing, over time those negative qualities add up in a persons life and they end up in jobs they dont like, around not so good people, in bad neighborhoods, unable to tell the difference between good and bad people and thus getting in more bad situations, etc. Actually creating in reality what was once mostly in their mind. Though they dont deserve every bad thing that happens to them,,, they certainly deserve quite a few. It becomes hard to untangle the tangled web of that persons life and determine which is more of which.
The Matrix has you, Neo!
quote:
Originally posted by TheArtist
Not sure what popo is, but I assume from the post you mean the police? How old are you anyway? 3? If I were the police and I read that I would jeer at you and not help you either. Sounds to me like you have an attitude problem and probably deserve all the crap and hassle you get from people. You have sure made me not like you. I hope thats the response your wanting, cause thats what your getting. And I bet its probably not just from me.
Seriously, though, Artist, kidding aside, have you ever been the victim of violent crime, or ever found the potential for such in your immediate sphere of existence? If not, I genuinely envy you. Me, I've had a few near-run ins with various bold individuals on the street, and I'm not ashamed to say thatonly when I showed that I was willing to meet it head-on with an equal display of force did the threat subside.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
My advice is for Tulsans to cower inside their houses after dark, let the thugs take over the neighborhoods, and to never call you-know-who over stupid stuff.
Tim, i'm on your side on so much of this issue, but that just is not an option to me. We can either live as free and happy as the Good Lord intended, or we can be afraid 24/7. Well, like i said, I'm nobody's victim.
A bit of background for Mr. Jaynes ...
Tim has shown on this board to throw nonsensical tantrums when things don't go his way, to the point where moderators had to step in.
So, based on that, it doesn't surprise me that the cops gave him the cold shoulder. There's no sense in confusing the men and women in blue during their investigations by acting borderline criminal yourself.
My opinion is the police are there to uphold the law, and not decide whether or not they like someone before they take action. In short, do their jobs and quit acting like life is a popularity contest.
quote:
Originally posted by rwarn17588
A bit of background for Mr. Jaynes ...
Tim has shown on this board to throw nonsensical tantrums when things don't go his way, to the point where moderators had to step in.
So, based on that, it doesn't surprise me that the cops gave him the cold shoulder. There's no sense in confusing the men and women in blue during their investigations by acting borderline criminal yourself.
That is bizarre, dude. What a jerk you are! do not know what I ever did to you but you are so far off on everything you just said I wonder about your grip on reality. If you cannot win an argument just flail about looking for attention? G'head and link the supposed instances and we can go from there, otherwise be revealed as mean-sprited jerk.
It is great to know that freaks like my assailant can beat someone, lie to the cops, and then basically stalk me in my own neighborhood. But I really cannot blame the cops, not because of their laziness and stupidity of the two, but because they know that de Judge would say 'pancakes is this case doing here?' and the DA would say 'There is no evidence either way.' and all the cops would have done is waste their time. I can not imagine a more futile experience than going through he motions for no good reason, so who can blame them for sneering at a citizen's complaint, leaning against his cruiser with his arms folded, while the assailant is laughing in the crybaby 'victims' face?
You are right, fellahs. I deserved it. I deserved getting punched for asking some dude to leave my property. I deserved the cops disdain. And the grifter - who has a $12K civil judgment against him in Cayuggah (sp?) County, Ohio - when he takes advantage of some old person or assaults someone else, deserves to get away with it.
Tulsa-fan-in-Texas, you have seen it from two posters here: cops base their field judgments on how they feel and not the evidence. Tulsans who are victimized asked for it. Dare to speak up and get blamed for being victimized.
They are right, I thought I said so. The first mistake is even opening the door to any stranger for any reason. The second is to call the cops unless you just want them to fill out a report or unless you have conclusive evidence. Otherwise it is just a waste of time and will only lead to bad things.
quote:
Originally posted by waterboy
Tim, what makes you think that the police were able to determine that your grifter contractor issued a false statement? They have to be non judicial in assembling the facts or make reasonable assumptions based on the circumstances and the stories presented. Unless they have direct observation or witness statements it was just your allegation versus his.
One officer said that the grifter said I struck him and that he had witnesses. You are right, without conclusive evidence it is a waste of time even calling. So if I struck him first why was I not arrested? If I swung back in self-defense, why was he not detained? In this type of he said/she said situation the so-called victim is screwed.
His 'witnesses' were a block away, and unless they had pulled up to my house, witnessed my assaulting this guy, and then drove all the way around the block to where their work was (two houses down on Rockford) they had no way of physically seeing the event. The officers made no attempt to verify how valid his statement was. They just went with it. The guy clearly had more experience than I did, and about 120 lbs more on his frame (I am scrawny, this guy is pretty beefy).
Cannot blame the cops for their inaction. How futile and what a waste of time it is to babysit big people. Look, just because I was upset and scared at the way the assailant looked after he hit me - he smiled wickedly like he enjoyed making me scared - does not mean that I can prove what happened. When the cops come, despite how upset you are, it is very very important to not show emotion or the cops will think you are crazy and jeer you.
I'm trying to read past the whining and just figure out what happened, from what I can tell:
1) Tim hired a fly-by-night contractor to do something.
2) Tim was not happy with the job &/or there was a disagreement on the terms.
3) The contractor demanded payment, Tim did not want to pay.
4) Per Tim, a disagreement happened on his property which ended in the contractor hitting him.
5) The police were called. Who did not take the incident seriously enough to really DO anything. The contractors story and Tim's story did not line up.
- - -
Is that it? Because from an outsiders perspective it sounds frustrating, but I have no real indication that your version is any more correct that the contractors (I did the work, Tim didn't pay, then he got rough when I tried to collect).
If you are really concerned about stalking and/or violence get a restraining order against him. Tell him in a certified letter why you aren't paying and suggest he initiate suit if he intents to collect (expect a lien to be filed). Or write a check for what you think the services were worth with "in full accord and satisfaction" in the memo line and inform him your dealings with him are done.
Of all the possible steps you could take to resolve this situation, whining about it on the internet, insulting the police, and arguing with posters seems to be among the least effective.
Best of luck Tim, but this discussion isn't really helping you.
Close enough, except the contractor told my wife he would give 'a discount' if we put a sign in the yard for 'a little while.' After 11 days I removed the sign, just to have another one pop up a few days later. It goes, and next day the dude shows up saying we had agreed to 50% for a month of the sign. When the guy refuses to leave I go get his tag and on the way back he pops me and then runs away.
You are right, this discussion was pointless, just like calling the cops in that situation was pointless. Just like a pointless story about taking a stand for one's neighborhood was pointless. Like getting a concealed weapon to protect oneself against drunk meth-heads and expecting justice is pointless. It is all pointless.
So you wouldn't leave a sign in your yard for another 2 weeks - that was the basis for the fight?
Clearly the guy should not have hit you, but you can't blame the cops for being a little peeved at the call. 2 grown men fighting over a contractors yard sign. Seems a little silly.
And no, everything isn't pointless. But what did you expect to accomplish with this thread - in the manner that you framed it?
You are right, 110% right. A guy says my wife is a liar, refuses to leave my property, hits me, lies to the cops, stalks me in my neighborhood. Case closed. I am an idiot for opening the door which put me in that situation and then for calling the cops when I should have known they could not help.
Yer right about this thread. A TV station puts out some puff piece congratulating another rube for getting his face broken. Nothing to discuss.
A hero geezer uses deadly force and the same man who let a psychotic killer free charges said geezer with manslaughter. Move on, nothing more to see.
quote:
Originally posted by tim huntzinger
You are right, this discussion was pointless, just like calling the cops in that situation was pointless.
You said it, not me.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Clearly the guy should not have hit you, but you can't blame the cops for being a little peeved at the call. 2 grown men fighting over a contractors yard sign. Seems a little silly.
I have to say this statement befuddles me CF. I don't know if you've ever been the victim of violence, but two men fighting is not really a fight when one is much larger than the other. Another thing, if I tell anyone to get off my property (for whatever reason), they have NO BUSINESS hitting me and I have ever right for protection from the police. Them getting a little "miffed" because they have to do their job is unbelievable. I don't live in Tulsa, but if the attitude of the citizens and police regarding this type of violence is what I'm gathering from the people that seem to be ganging up on Tim just because he's not the most popular kid on the block I don't think I want to move there.
I'd be whining too if some guy comes onto my property and pops me and the police think there's no big deal. I'd be whining even more if I come onto this forum and get the responses I've heard thus far.
In Fort Worth, or where I live if you call the Police, you get results and there is no bias. In short, they are professionals. And my neighbors wouldn't say that I'm whining if those professionals behaved unprofessionally.
Keep in mind, Tulsa Fan, that this forum only carries Tim's account and Tim's perception of the police.
I guess what disturbs me is some of the comments such as fights between two grown men over <insert activity here> is a "little silly."
Frankly, if someone is sticking a sign in my yard and I tell them to pull it up and they not only refuse but bonk me up side the head and someone (especially a cop) thinks that is "silly" is disturbing to me.
If someone comes into my yard, hits me in the head, I'm going to hit them back, and things will escalate into even more violence.
I understand what you are saying, but the replies of "it's not a big deal" disturb me. If Tim is lying that's one thing, but to say that it is "silly" and doesn't deserve police response when one man hits another on HIS property disturbs me.
No doubt there are two sides to every story. What part of me hitting a much bigger guy and then calling the police makes sense, though? No history of my doing anything like it, a model frigging citizen.
I think the cops decided against acting bc it is the classic he said/she said scenario, and they just did not have an iron clad case. There is no excuse for the one cop to have treated me like I was in the wrong, to the point of sneering at me and saying 'It is stupid to have to settle something between two grown men.'
I just thought there was a confluence between KOTV's story, the Gumm affair, and what happened to me. This is the first time I have mentioned it on the forum even though it happened in January. I am so embarassed I have not even told some of my friends or family. I know the guy has been targeting my neighborhood and my wife has seen him drive by since then. I do not know if the guy is trying to provoke me or if I am in danger of vandalism. Sucks. Do not open the door.
Tulsafan, violence is always a big deal to me. BUT, since the officer decided not to do anything I'll have to assume that it was not significant. It boils down to me trusting the officer over Tim (who has come on this board and made an donkey of himself and, I believe, has been banned before).
I don't mean to make light of a situation involving violence, but if the cop in this situation thought it was a situation not worthy of his attention - I'll have to side with him.
And Tim, I understand that is what you are getting at. But you must agree that over the course of your tenure here you have given most reason to regard your point of view with suspicion. AGAIN, sorry this went south and I know it is a big deal to you - but the officer apperently disagreed.
CF, I think highly of your opinion and am grateful that you took the time to respond. Perhaps I am sensitive to this issue because I have been in a similar situation before. I do realize that I don't know every detail.
Tim, I hope you get some kind of resolution to the issue that satisfies you. Any person that is the victim of a violent act deserves protection from the law.
I hate violence, as I'm sure most of you do. And I'm a US Army veteran that was involved in several "situations," so violence isn't something foreign to me.
I put a lot of faith in the Police, whom I think are fine people (and underpaid, btw).
Tim, I sympathize with you and hope things work out for the best. And for everyone else, thanks for the response.
It's good to debate things in a civil tone.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
Tulsafan, violence is always a big deal to me. BUT, since the officer decided not to do anything I'll have to assume that it was not significant. It boils down to me trusting the officer over Tim (who has come on this board and made an donkey of himself and, I believe, has been banned before).
THREE YEARS AGO was I banned from the forum. THREE YEARS. Get over it haters! [:D]
What it boils down to is that it occurs to me that there is no way no cop is going to court in a he said/she said situation, and that I said that several posts ago.
Thanks Tulsafan for your empathy. This has really changed the way I look at everything.
Where I have published inaccuracies in the past I have retracted and corrected them; when I have been unfairly critical I have apologized; if I have purposely offended I have more than tried to make good.
The take-away from this for you cops and friends of cops is better watch out who you are snotty to because not everyone you encounter - no matter how much like 'Earl' they look like at the time - is an idiot. I understand why they could not really take this to court and I realize that no matter how much the assailant offended my wife's honor I should not have opened the door without a shotgun in my hand. But I will never, ever, ever forget that one cop's attitude. One bad apple? You frigging betcha!
Wait wait, ain't done yet! Is this not the same TPD that is asking for anonymous neighborhood snitches? So they get a snitch and he gets his face broken! And the broke-face snitch is lauded with a news story and the TPD congratulates him for his courage! This is the same DA who let a homeless psychotic free cuz 'a mans got the right to defend himself' even if it means the loon beat a helpless man to death while the man was on the ground.
Now if any of my detractors want to show where I have knowingly issued false, defammatory, or libelous statements, come forth. In fact, show where I have been censured or lost an argument on this forum.
I poop on you, haters.
quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder
I don't mean to make light of a situation involving violence, but if the cop in this situation thought it was a situation not worthy of his attention - I'll have to side with him.
Since when is it the cops job to decide what is and isn't worthy of his attention? If a citizen FEELS himself threatened the a cop should investigate. If an assault of ANY kind has taken place, with or without a cop being a witness, then the cop owes it to the people that are paying his wages to investigate it. If the contractor has witnesses, then bring them out and check their story......see if it was concocted.....I guarantee you one or more of the non-witnesses will think twice about a lie when faced with perjury. If it turns out the contractor was trespassing when putting up a sign then that alone should be sufficient evidence of intent.
If more of these guys were busted and had to face the consequences of their actions, and those consequences carried real meaning, the Tulsa community would be far more pleasant.
Unfortunately, unless their is conclusive physical evidence there is nothing that can be done. Otherwise, it is honestly impossible to prosecute the case. And in the case of the man whose face got broken that is not enough - they know the people involved but cannot prove who exactly put him down. Sometimes, in Gumm's case, the cops exercise discretion at the scene only to be shown to have erred (according to the DA).
And sometimes, even when a Federal case is made against an alleged gang informant a successful prosecution is not enough. (KJRH) (//%22http://www.kjrh.com/content/news/breaking/story.aspx?content_id=b8039ec4-db1c-45af-b6dd-1fa690396443%22)
Good pasture, that's a great idea. But in reality that's not how it works.
We only have so many officers, investigators, prosecutors and courtrooms. Only so much time and so many resources are available. It IS an officers job to determine which incidents are deserving of public resources and he is given a broad discretion in that matter. I'd rather the officer tell Tim sorry and find the more troublesome members of society (and stop wasting time on pot smokers too).
Frankly, if every incident that was reported was dragged through the system it would just stop it's slow crawl all together. This is a he-said he-said. The battery left no injury. There is no evidence of the assault. The underlying cause is a civil matter.
The threat of perjury is a total joke (go find out how many people are in David L Moss for perjury right now). To get to that stage we would have to take this guy for trial for pushing Tim. Tie up an officer for half a day, a prosecutor and defense council for half a day, a judge and courtroom for a couple hours and on and on. We're talking THOUSANDS of public dollars to get him on the stand... then even if we could prove he lied he wouldn't go to jail for perjury (I know they always do in Law and Order, but seriously it rarely happens in the real world).
Tim is exactly correct. If his story is correct and this lowlife did manhandle him a bit he has no real recourse unless HE wants to pursue it. He can make it a civil action or pester the DA's office to try and get something done. But all those options are really dead ends.
Serious assaults are not often solved. Car thefts not even really investigated. I got SHOT AT on my way home from work and they took a statement and blatantly told me that's all the further it would go. This isn't a Tulsa thing - it's generally how police are forced to operate.
Sorry for venting.