Estimates are that 400,000 people came downtown for Mayfest and the Blue Dome Festival. Gosh, despite all the alleged "high crime, lack of parking, and homelessness!" So, if 400,000 people can (and joyfully do) come downtown for these festivals...what's the lesson?
Give the people a product--a reason--to come downtown and they will.
Everyone who's banking on downtown (and there are more every day who are investing in new retail, restaurants, bars, hotels, lofts/apartments, etc) should be happy. All we need is critical mass. Give the folks something great, and they will be there. Provide a great product, and all those lame excuses evaporate in the rush of people eager to enjoy something cool and unique.
(Anyone who doubts this should drop by McNellies on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon. Always a good crowd. Families and friends get together for a late lunch or a brew in a nice atmosphere with great food. Big surprise...it works! And it's working downtown, right now. Get used to it!)
The people who say folks won't come downtown are idiots.
Go to any city with a thriving downtown and there are people of every type, even families with little kids. They're eating, shopping, going to baseball games, etc.
I still remember when I was 8 and we walked out of Chicago Union Station. I saw a bum pull a hostess wrapper out of the trash and lick it clean.
The only thing that proves is people loves festivals.
I seriously doubt people would go to downtown 5 or 7 days a week so they can pay for parking,get hassled for money by bums and perhaps get charged more for the same stuff you can buy cheaper elsewhere in Tulsa when you go anywhere else in Tulsa and not have to deal with those things.
quote:
Originally posted by jamesrage
The only thing that proves is people loves festivals.
I seriously doubt people would go to downtown 5 or 7 days a week so they can pay for parking,get hassled for money by bums and perhaps get charged more for the same stuff you can buy cheaper elsewhere in Tulsa when you go anywhere else in Tulsa and not have to deal with those things.
I haven't been hassled by bums or overcharged anywhere outside 71st Street for years.
quote:
Originally posted by jamesrage
The only thing that proves is people loves festivals.
I seriously doubt people would go to downtown 5 or 7 days a week so they can pay for parking,get hassled for money by bums and perhaps get charged more for the same stuff you can buy cheaper elsewhere in Tulsa when you go anywhere else in Tulsa and not have to deal with those things.
Your scale is measured by the point of view of one person though. Sure, I won't go downtown 5 or 7 days a week for entertainment. That is ridiculous to assume that is what is needed from people. A different mix of people on a weekly basis is what would be expected, with SOME regulars who likely live close by being there on a daily/weekly basis.
It doesn't take the same people going there every day to keep a place busy. That certainly isn't the case in the busiest part of town. You think people go to 71st and Memorial to shop/eat on a daily basis? No! It is a different mix of people day by day, week by week.
This past weekend also proves how festival attendance is dependent on good weather.
The weather was perfect all weekend, which is practically an aberration for Mayfest. And Viola! You have big attendance numbers.
It seemed like there were fewer artists this year. More carnival type food and less unique restaurant style food.
The weather was the big draw! In the shade it was perfect, and even in the sun, with a little breeze you could avoid a sweat!
quote:
Originally posted by jackbristow
quote:
Originally posted by jamesrage
The only thing that proves is people loves festivals.
I seriously doubt people would go to downtown 5 or 7 days a week so they can pay for parking,get hassled for money by bums and perhaps get charged more for the same stuff you can buy cheaper elsewhere in Tulsa when you go anywhere else in Tulsa and not have to deal with those things.
Your scale is measured by the point of view of one person though. Sure, I won't go downtown 5 or 7 days a week for entertainment. That is ridiculous to assume that is what is needed from people. A different mix of people on a weekly basis is what would be expected, with SOME regulars who likely live close by being there on a daily/weekly basis.
It doesn't take the same people going there every day to keep a place busy. That certainly isn't the case in the busiest part of town. You think people go to 71st and Memorial to shop/eat on a daily basis? No! It is a different mix of people day by day, week by week.
I go to the 71st and Memorial area once a year. This year, I've gone twice. Ugh! Once for my annual shopping trek to Eddie Bauer in Woodland Hills Mall. And once to Sun and Ski, to replace my lost my rain jacket. (The two things I bought in south Tulsa are things I could have bought using my computer at home. Nothing unique to see here...move along)
If Mayfest was someplace else, say along the river or something, we'd be saying the same thing about that place. I'll agree that providing a product people want will draw people. Downtown has nothing to do with that. I would go to Mayfest if it was someplace else. I don't go to Mayfest only because it is downtown.
The other piece is, taxpayers shouldn't provide the entertainment to get people downtown, which tends to be the trend, although, Mayfest is not part of that trend.
Wait until Dfest.
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
It seemed like there were fewer artists this year. More carnival type food and less unique restaurant style food.
The weather was the big draw! In the shade it was perfect, and even in the sun, with a little breeze you could avoid a sweat!
Artists were the same although they get moved around from year to year. I miss helmuts but I think it was pretty much the same food as next year. Mayfest is only as good as the people who apply and hopefully these stories will drum up some new and wider variety applicants.
Estimates are that 400,000 people came downtown for Mayfest and the Blue Dome Festival. Gosh, despite all the alleged "high crime, lack of parking, and homelessness!" So, if 400,000 people can (and joyfully do) come downtown for these festivals...what's the lesson?
Wow ! 400,000 people that are a hold passel of people that was sure hidden in the TV clips where the total numbers on the clip could have been counted on ones fingers. Then some may have wanted to see the DT changes that's policy is spend now and let the grandchildren worry about the paying off the revenue bonds issued by reverse taxation. Yes, either vote for G.O. Bonds or they will indebt the working poor at the back door. Course your gift U.S. check has been deposited already and their seem to be no difficulty to spend it. We will expect the reassurance each year. After all the cost of paper and ink is all that is required. (Internet depost three cents ) We have found the solution "build it and deposit the money in our bank account and we will come."
So shadows decides to trash Mayfest attendance because he saw a couple of clips on the evening news? Way to jump to conclusions there.
Mayfest was packed, especially on Saturday and Sunday. I was there every day and every night and there were thousands and thousands of people. I have been going to Mayfest for 30 years and have been involved in helping put on the festival for 21 years. I don't ever remember bigger crowds during the day on Saturday than this year.
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
Estimates are that 400,000 people came downtown for Mayfest and the Blue Dome Festival. Gosh, despite all the alleged "high crime, lack of parking, and homelessness!" So, if 400,000 people can (and joyfully do) come downtown for these festivals...what's the lesson?
Wow ! 400,000 people that are a hold passel of people that was sure hidden in the TV clips where the total numbers on the clip could have been counted on ones fingers. Then some may have wanted to see the DT changes that's policy is spend now and let the grandchildren worry about the paying off the revenue bonds issued by reverse taxation. Yes, either vote for G.O. Bonds or they will indebt the working poor at the back door. Course your gift U.S. check has been deposited already and their seem to be no difficulty to spend it. We will expect the reassurance each year. After all the cost of paper and ink is all that is required. (Internet depost three cents ) We have found the solution "build it and deposit the money in our bank account and we will come."
I left my decoder ring in my other pants. Can anyone help out?
Have another, dude.
"hold passel"
pancakes???
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
Estimates are that 400,000 people came downtown for Mayfest and the Blue Dome Festival. Gosh, despite all the alleged "high crime, lack of parking, and homelessness!" So, if 400,000 people can (and joyfully do) come downtown for these festivals...what's the lesson?
Wow ! 400,000 people that are a hold passel of people that was sure hidden in the TV clips where the total numbers on the clip could have been counted on ones fingers. Then some may have wanted to see the DT changes that's policy is spend now and let the grandchildren worry about the paying off the revenue bonds issued by reverse taxation. Yes, either vote for G.O. Bonds or they will indebt the working poor at the back door. Course your gift U.S. check has been deposited already and their seem to be no difficulty to spend it. We will expect the reassurance each year. After all the cost of paper and ink is all that is required. (Internet depost three cents ) We have found the solution "build it and deposit the money in our bank account and we will come."
Okie speak.
"Whole passle"- large group of people.
Possible meaning: He feels the numbers of visitors to Mayfest/BlueDome are exaggerated by complicit media and at the very least, many of them may have been there only to see the results of their oppressive and excessive tax expenditures.
This morphs into remarks about the G.O. bond issue being considered by the state, which then morphs into remarks about the "incentive checks" and the governments ability to simply print more money at will.
Summarizes by returning to these infrastructure expenditures as being nothing more than a WPA type government exercise in using our own money to attract people to spend mo' money downtown.
Best guess.
Wow ! 400,000 people that are a hold passel of people that was sure hidden in the TV clips where the total numbers on the clip could have been counted on ones fingers. Then some may have wanted to see the DT changes that's policy is spend now and let the grandchildren worry about the paying off the revenue bonds issued by reverse taxation. Yes, either vote for G.O. Bonds or they will indebt the working poor at the back door. Course your gift U.S. check has been deposited already and their seem to be no difficulty to spend it. We will expect the reassurance each year. After all the cost of paper and ink is all that is required. (Internet depost three cents ) We have found the solution "build it and deposit the money in our bank account and we will come."
I was thinking he meant this...
400,000 people hid from the TV cameras by holding their fingers with a clip. Many have a policy of seeing their grandkids have the DTs but reverse themselves through the back door. The U.S. government needs paper and ink in order to de-post the internet, but only has three cents in their bank account. The solution is to have an orgasm.
quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle
quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar
It seemed like there were fewer artists this year. More carnival type food and less unique restaurant style food.
The weather was the big draw! In the shade it was perfect, and even in the sun, with a little breeze you could avoid a sweat!
Artists were the same although they get moved around from year to year. I miss helmuts but I think it was pretty much the same food as next year. Mayfest is only as good as the people who apply and hopefully these stories will drum up some new and wider variety applicants.
I miss my Beef Wellington!
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Wow ! 400,000 people that are a hold passel of people that was sure hidden in the TV clips where the total numbers on the clip could have been counted on ones fingers. Then some may have wanted to see the DT changes that's policy is spend now and let the grandchildren worry about the paying off the revenue bonds issued by reverse taxation. Yes, either vote for G.O. Bonds or they will indebt the working poor at the back door. Course your gift U.S. check has been deposited already and their seem to be no difficulty to spend it. We will expect the reassurance each year. After all the cost of paper and ink is all that is required. (Internet depost three cents ) We have found the solution "build it and deposit the money in our bank account and we will come."
I was thinking he meant this...
400,000 people hid from the TV cameras by holding their fingers with a clip. Many have a policy of seeing their grandkids have the DTs but reverse themselves through the back door. The U.S. government needs paper and ink in order to de-post the internet, but only has three cents in their bank account. The solution is to have an orgasm.
I knew that was the solution.
RM, your decoder ring is amazing...I can't wait to see your shoe phone!
I was at Mayfest on Friday after work and late Saturday night. The Friday crowd was quite busy... I think I saw almost everyone I know in Tulsa that evening. The late Saturday crowd was packed, and I bet the average age was 24! It was probably the most young people I've seen in one place since college.
I wonder what the statistics are for people coming in from out of town? Mayfest definitely drew people from all over the region. Among my favorite crowd sightings: a bunch of real cowboys (not OSU fans) in for the Joe Diffie concert. And the youthful punk rockers (with enormous mohawks) who were not even born the last time their fad was in fashion. It would have been interesting to analyze the car tags of the visitors to see where everyone was coming from.
One statistic that would be interesting to know: how many people tripped over the "tree curbs" that DTU installed in the sidewalks? (If they had made those a foot or so taller, people could have sat on them...instead of tripping over them.)
As long as some one is correcting my post I know they are being read.
Try this one for size. "If 400,000 attended the Mayfest in two days on about 40 acres and the Tulsa Fair draws only 2.5 times as many in ten days on 320 acres of the fair grounds, then the fair should be held DT. Every inconvenience is available DT that are not to be considered at the fair grounds.
Tulsa is to close to OKC and has had its day. The Elitist should promote buying 5,000 acres at Midway in the Osage, build a city of their liking, and stop trying to compete with OKC.
Those people looking for a way to attend the Blue Dome programs would have increased the count another 100,000 if they could have found it.
21 years of promoting?
Was that an attempt at clarification?
I'm confused again (still).
I thought Mayfest was nice and so was the Blue Dome festival..
There were a ton of people there, though I didn't count them and didn't see anyone else counting them.
I like both festivals where they are. I also like the state fair where it is. I also like living in Tulsa and in no way feel like moving to a new city or comparing my city to Oklahoma City.
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
If 400,000 attended the Mayfest in two days on about 40 acres and the Tulsa Fair draws only 2.5 times as many in ten days on 320 acres of the fair grounds
That is a good point...
Don't encourage him. His math is never right. Mayfest was four days long for example, not two.
Mayfest also has 30,000 people working within blocks of it's site, the fairgrounds have a few hundred. They also have 10,000 regular churchgoers on Sunday, the fairgrounds has none.
shadows meet Abilify, Abilify shadows...
quote:
Originally posted by shadows
TV clips...revenue bonds issued by reverse taxation...working poor ...After all the cost of paper and ink is all that is required....build it and deposit the money in our bank account and we will come."
You were doing so well. While people clearly read your posts, no one gets any MEANING out of them. If I post the lyrics to "I am the Walrus" people will read it, so what?
1. You saw a clip on TV and based your assessment on that. The people that came up with the numbers computed the money spent, the crowds by day AND do this at least in part for a living having actually been there. Do you really think that is wise?
2. Reverse taxation? That would be the government earning money and tendering it to the people. As I understanding, the government does not earn money nor do they (net) tender funds to the people.
3. When the "working poor" reference returns we are back on a downhill course.
4. The funds came from a debt issue. DEBT has to be repaid. So the cost is the principle plus interest. Which is significantly higher than the cost of printing money. Debt creation is NOT money creation as it draws on existing sources of capital by necessity.
5. That ignores the underlying flaw in your post. So Mayfest did not have a lot of people there (because you saw that on TV) but the crowds came to Mayfest because they had their rebates deposited. So which is it? Crowds because of deposits or media conspiracy and no crowds?
AND, if it was a media conspiracy why didn't they show a better group of people to you on TV?
- - -
You were doing so well for a few weeks there.
Waterboy Quoted:
Okie speak.
"Whole passle"- large group of people.
You got me on this one. Before the school burned and the school marm ran off with the cowboy (when I was in the 4th grade) we did not have such a word or definition for "passle"
I love the word. You probably had the correct spelling though, "Passel". Words like that and "worsh rag" are part of our heritage. Kum and Go recently started using soft drink cups with separate labels for "Pop" and "Soda" to see which cup gets chosen the most. I go with pop, but one of my friends from deep Texas says its both..."Popsoda". Go figure.
quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael
Don't encourage him. His math is never right. Mayfest was four days long for example, not two.
Mayfest also has 30,000 people working within blocks of it's site, the fairgrounds have a few hundred. They also have 10,000 regular churchgoers on Sunday, the fairgrounds has none.
There I have done it again as I thought the first two day was for the employees of the working poor (tax payers who pay the bills) to marvel at the progress of the reworking of main street (tear it up and redo it every other decade as dictated) just to satisfy a new group of elitist's fancies. (don't need it but why not when the working poor is paying for it)
The other two days were dedicated to the over obese (overweight and extremely fat) who were there by the tons to leave the fest taking home more tons of excess fat. Most ot the posts on this forum concerned how much and great the food was there.
CF Quoted:
4. The funds came from a debt issue. DEBT has to be repaid. So the cost is the principle plus interest. Which is significantly higher than the cost of printing money. Debt creation is NOT money creation as it draws on existing sources of capital by necessity.
You were doing so well. While people clearly read your posts, no one gets any MEANING out of them. If I post the lyrics to "I am the Walrus" people will read it, so what?
"The time has come the Walrus said to speak of many things, of shoes, of ships, of ceiling wax, of cabbages and Kings."
Have you written your senator and informed him that when debts are out of control then bankruptcy is the next step. All transactions whether local or national is no more than a fancy engraved piece of paper meaning "On my honor I will pay you in tangible merchandise when you present this piece of paper"
Governments, under free enterprise, have no commodity to barter other what they have taken from the Native American where the final episode was under Jackson in 1838. The socialistic/ communism approach of distributing millions of dollars by any bankrupt country is well down the road of disaster.
If it is workable let us go all the way and deposit in the bank account of every family $100,000 dollars on January 1 of every year. Issue new color currency on the 2nd day so that each would have to spent the previous year's deposits before the 2nd day. Issue each family 5 checks to be used in the transition of converting the money through the federal banks.
We are the laughing stock of the world today as of the three wars we have started two we left with the same conditions we started with and now the third one is causing us to do some very stupid things.
I suppose you went to France when you said you were leaving the country in a previous post. Do they thank you for Jefferson helping them to overthrow the House of Bourbon?. I am sure you tasted their wine? Was it not the rider of the pale horse that said "harm not the oil nor the wine?
CF Quoted from shadows posts:
5. That ignores the underlying flaw in your post. So Mayfest did not have a lot of people there (because you saw that on TV) but the crowds came to Mayfest because they had their rebates deposited. So which is it? Crowds because of deposits or media conspiracy and no crowds?{hr}
Many of the past elitist have used the old cliché "A picture is worth more than a thousand words. Let us print the pictures taken by the TV cameramen that did not show the presumed phantom hundreds of thousands of visitors, hiding in buildings, which would make it more lucid for the working poor with the increasing fees (they are the only sources of city income left) or by issuing revenue (that do not require a vote of the people) or adding fees on utilities bills of which likewise the working poor have no control.
Many of the past elitist have used the old cliché "A picture is worth more than a thousand words. Let us print the pictures taken by the TV cameramen that did not show the presumed phantom hundreds of thousands of visitors, hiding in buildings, which would make it more lucid for the working poor with the increasing fees (they are the only sources of city income left) or by issuing revenue (that do not require a vote of the people) or adding fees on utilities bills of which likewise the working poor have no control.
Let me try to translate...
I'm bitter about everything. I will attack anything good because I'm bitter.
I speak for other bitter people who don't want to pay their bills. I used the word lucid, but I don't know why or have any control of what I write.
RM writes:
Let me try to translate...
I'm bitter about everything. I will attack anything good because I'm bitter.
I speak for other bitter people who don't want to pay their bills. I used the word lucid, but I don't know why or have any control of what I write.
If you can get a 5th grade reader to read my post to you and explain the minimum of the guarantees built into the constitution that was to insure the government would remain in the hands of the people, it could very easily become lucid (a well used adjective in the category of simply being able to transfer thought in a matter that is "easy to understand; meaningful clear") of course it is being recorded that we are issuing hundreds of thousands of diplomas to students that cannot even read their diplomas.
I assure you that I strongly believe in the intent of the founders in "That this government of the people, for the people, by the people, shall, not perish from the earth". From this I guard against the take over by any single or group of people who would destroy our system of which thousands of our youth who have made their final sacrifice. Furthermore I stand against a suffrage system where the minimum of registered votes dictate the terms to the majority.
Sleep well tonight, assured of the security that other have provided you but you are determine to destroy. It is all in the eyes of the beholder.
I see that it takes over a thousand posts to get a person five yellow stars beneath their name. Clearly there is no rule about any of those posts being articulate.
I don't understand most of what was written on this particular page. . . and I'm not one of those people who can't read his own diploma.
What's the argument here? Did Mayfest have a large group of people as visitors? I was there. I can clear this up. There were tons of people there. There were more people there than I've ever seen at Mayfest and I was down there every day at some point.
The Blue Dome Festival seemed to do pretty well too.
Please know that I don't work for any of our biased local media. I'm just an observer. I didn't count each one of the visitors to downtown. All I know is that Mayfest and the Blue Dome Festival did in fact help to prove that people, if given a reason, will visit downtown.
Joeblake
It has all been in a matter of discussion while some of the elitist threw Bell's amusement park out of town are trying to recreate a new Branson entertainment center in a crowed 40 acre area on the presumption that if they do it the people will come.
In the 1940's the families walked down town and canvassed the main street looking into the window at the displays the stores constant changed. The lookers were shoulder to shoulder and crowds gathered at the street corners, waiting for the light to change in order to cross. Then too one could watch the people get off the light rail system to see if they knew any one arriving DT.
After the Fest had started the local TV stations showed clips of the area looking like a half hour after the game is over with a few people wandering around.
So some one came up with the attendance being 400,000 on that 40 acres of main street with thousands of workers on a tight scheduled completion date working also.
I suppose those entertainers who have their own building on the restless strip in Branson are going to have to move to our city with no dependable transportation and limited paying for parking.
You wrote that you saw tons of persons in attendance which I have no doubt they were there. On TV clips I saw several but could not understand why they were wearing hard hats.
Give it up Shadows. I can be as cynical and pessimistic as anyone. I've gone to every Mayfest since back when it was called Jubilee '73. Many were so crowded they felt like the fair on student day. This one was well attended. Was it 400,000? I doubt it. Do the Drillers draw 9000? Also doubtful. But it, and the Blue Dome were plenty well attended and prove that people will come downtown if provided the right incentives.
proof·read (prfrd)
v. proof·read (-rd), proof·read·ing, proof·reads
v.tr.
To read (copy or proof) in order to find errors and mark corrections.
v.intr.
I've read your post twice and still don't understand what you're trying to say.
All I can really discern is that you're being negative, though I can't tell who is actually to blame. I did see mention of "some of the elitist," which of course is grammatically incorrect and seemed to have more to do with Bell's closing than anything else.
Was the title of the thread not trying to make the point that the festivals prove that people will come downtown? What's to debate? They do! Nobody had to hype it up. It was, in fact, very busy. There were thousands of people that drove from all over.
I don't get what Branson has to do with anything. I simply don't understand. What point are you trying to make? Are you insinuating that elitists are working in conjunction with the local media to make Mayfest seem more successful than it actually was as part of a master plan to attract Branson entertainers to a proposed entertainment village at the fairgrounds?
Are you suggesting that the same people who want downtown to seem more appealing than it actually is are also those that wanted Bells gone so that they could put an entertainment area at the fairgrounds?
I guess I just don't understand the attachment.
It may help if your tense wasn't in constant disagreement and if your grammar wasn't notably insufficient. After reading it a few times, I think I understood what you were trying to say, I just didn't understand what you meant...or why you seem bent on discrediting Mayfest or downtown.
We had some festivals. They had several attendees. I think the point the thread's initial poster was trying to make is not debatable, so everything else is just...senseless.
JB:
There were tons of people there.
I suppose the proper way to handle these titles would be to limit them the single word of "Agree or Disagree". Then there would be no question as to what is in proper Shakespearian form used in answering the intent of the poster.
(If you had 400,000 in attendance with the average weight of 150 lbs, then you sure had tons of visitors.) 30,000 tons.
To get away from exact head counts, I was down at the Blue Dome on Friday afternoon and it was very busy. A good friend who has been a vendor at the Blue Dome since its inception said they had the best year ever and the crowds were always around. The only slow time they really had was during the dinner hour both Friday and Saturday evenings. Otherwise their booth always had people in it looking and buying.
This thread is about the fact that we had a successful Mayfest this year. It isn't about the fair, Bell's, downtown in the 40s, Branson entertainment districts, France, how much food people eat, Elitists, OKC, or any other such off topic political statements. It is about the fact that a lot of people showed up and helped make this years Mayfest a success for the artist vendors and for the city and downtown.
Agreed.