Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75

[carltonplace]

My Gosh that is fugly.

[swake]

Kinda looks like Bacteria

[TheArtist]

Kinda looks like Bacteria

+1!

[Conan71]

My Gosh that is fugly.

But hey! Plenty of parking per Tulsa code!!!

[Conan71]

When does this go before the city? I'm interested to see what TMAPC has to say.

Planning Review Committee 2/19/15 (no public comment)
TMAPC hearing 3/18/15 (public comment accepted)

No idea when this would go to the council for final approval.  On projects of this magnitude I would suspect it takes longer to get through the planning process.  Note that the site plans are not overly detailed.  If you look at the plotted elevation points, looks like mean elevation of the development is around 770 MSL.  That means literally filling and stabilizing 50 to 55 vertical feet of fill on the east and NE corners of the development.

[ZYX]

I don't see how this can be feasible with the infrastructure improvements needed (and not presently funded) and the major site work required there not to mention the subsurface is all rock.  How much will the city be on the hook to make this work?  I want that disclosed.

I really don't think there's any way that this can work without doing major road upgrades. That would include the bridge itself having to be widened. Why should the city/state pay for the necessary infrastructure improvements to support an unpopular development?

Planning Review Committee 2/19/15 (no public comment)
TMAPC hearing 3/18/15 (public comment accepted)

No idea when this would go to the council for final approval.  On projects of this magnitude I would suspect it takes longer to get through the planning process.  Note that the site plans are not overly detailed.  If you look at the plotted elevation points, looks like mean elevation of the development is around 770 MSL.  That means literally filling and stabilizing 50 to 55 vertical feet of fill on the east and NE corners of the development.

I noticed that the site plans are pretty basic. I'm sort of surprised that this would be considered a feasible site in the first place. 50 feet of leveling is pretty significant. Would the lot still have a gradual slope or would it have a steep drop off on the south and west ends? It worries me that they plan to start construction in the fall. I'd hate to see such a potentially impactful development get rushed through.

[Conan71]

I really don't think there's any way that this can work without doing major road upgrades. That would include the bridge itself having to be widened. Why should the city/state pay for the necessary infrastructure improvements to support an unpopular development?

I noticed that the site plans are pretty basic. I'm sort of surprised that this would be considered a feasible site in the first place. 50 feet of leveling is pretty significant. Would the lot still have a gradual slope or would it have a steep drop off on the south and west ends? It worries me that they plan to start construction in the fall. I'd hate to see such a potentially impactful development get rushed through.

Steep drop off.  Like retaining walls.  Nothing like lots and lots of concrete to compliment urban wilderness.  Just wait till the taggers show up.

Simon has lots and lots of money and resources.  But even for an organization like theirs, even if they worked around the clock, I've got it on very reliable word there is no way they could be even close to opening by fall of 2016.  There is still quite a bit of engineering work, site prep, and utility work.  The site work estimate is $20 to $25mm.  Essentially the bluff along Hwy 75 will be cut down by 20-30 feet along with the east part of the property needing 50-55 feet of fill in places.  IIRC, site prep on Tulsa Hills went on for at least a year or so.  Anyone else remember?

As well, the plans they have submitted thus far are only preliminary plans to get the corridor zoning approved.  No one at INCOG has seen anything close to final plans at this point.

That's the "optics" in the race to sign tenants.  They get leases signed and promise a go date that keeps getting delayed.  Frankly, I'm learning far more about the underbelly of this type of business than I care to.  It's a sleazy business.

Developers this big are not building communities, they exist to make money.  The only thing that matters once they have built is that the rent gets paid.

Of particular interest that west side residents need to be aware of is there is nothing to prevent this corridor re-zone from happening without any sort of plan to deal with the rural nature of the intersection of Hwy 75 and W. 61st.  Nothing has been addressed about the roadway from east of the development to 71st either.  This is a good issue to bring up at the TMAPC hearing on March 18.

It would be extremely careless for Simon to build without the bridge and road being widened PRIOR to that being mitigated.  ODOT realizes this is becoming a viable commercial corridor from Glenpool to I-44.  Even if they fast track widening of 75 and improving ramps, bridges, etc. there is no way to make this happen any quicker than 3-4 years.  As of today, here is ODOT's eight year plan for their district 8 which is the Tulsa area:

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cwp-8-year-plan/cwp_ffy2015-ffy2022/pdfs/cwp_ffy2015-ffy2022_division8-map.pdf

Projects identified on this plan in the vicinity include bridge re-hab for 75 over 44 in 2016.  Imagine the cluster that would be trying to complete that with additional load from prospective shoppers at this development.

Here's what is on the eight year plan for 75 between I-44 and the Creek Turnpike:

[ZYX]

Steep drop off.  Like retaining walls.  Nothing like lots and lots of concrete to compliment urban wilderness.  Just wait till the taggers show up.

That's what I was afraid of. I can't think of much that would be less appropriate to be built in this area. Opposing this outlet mall is not being against private property rights, it's opposing development that neither fits with the intended use of the area nor can be supported by the available infrastructure. This is like someone proposing to build a 20 story glass and steel building with a 400 car parking garage in a neighborhood of one and two story brick homes.

Even if one takes doesn't take into account any potential recreational/environmental impacts of this development, it should be considered irresponsible and inappropriate based on infrastructure problems alone. To what extent does the city have power to deny Simon's proposal based on inadequate infrastructure?

[SXSW]

If there's ever a time to rally against a project this is it.  Either that or hope the Cherokees are one step ahead of Simon.

[Conan71]

Tune in to Channel 2 at 10.  The Y has finally spoken up, or at least they did on the 6pm edition.  Apparently Simon reneged on some promises their advance team made that didn't make it anywhere into he site plan.  That and the 70 foot retaining wall in clear view from their camp might have kind of pissed them off.

[ZYX]

I saw this too late, hopefully they'll put it on their website.

A 70 ft retaining wall (likely) covered in graffiti, insanely bottlenecked traffic, trash and polluted water. What more could one want from an urban wilderness?

Reading the Tulsa World article from yesterday, I'm glad to see that the comments section is full of statements against this development. Hopefully city leaders will feel the pressure.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Growth for growth's sake.  No matter what.

Stay classy, Tulsa!

[guido911]

[Conan71]

The YMCA, this projects nearest neighbor has spoken.  Sounds as if Simon is ignoring them.

Someone needs to school me on how to embed Youtube links, no matter what I try, I can no longer imbed them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UhEGZyLIGc

[Hoss]

The YMCA, this projects nearest neighbor has spoken.  Sounds as if Simon is ignoring them.

Someone needs to school me on how to embed Youtube links, no matter what I try, I can no longer imbed them.

FIFY...btw, click on the youtube icon in the rows above when you create a post.  However, with youtube, you need to remove the 's' in https for it to embed properly.  Stupid I know.