The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

http://tulsapreservationcommission.org/blog/index.pl?e=1134 (http://tulsapreservationcommission.org/blog/index.pl?e=1134)

I thought this blog did a nice job of outlining recent DT development.

Someone's been trolling the forums, obviously.  Kudos to us as a group for keeping so on top of this stuff.  There's literally nothing on that list that I hadn't heard of before. 

That said, it's an exciting time to be a DT booster.  Good things are upon us.

Thanks for posting the link, glad to see such a great summary of progress in Tulsa! I missed the story about rooftop signs in the Blue Dome- that could be really big for branding the neighborhood.

From the limited view out my office window, it looks like some equipment was moving dirt around yesterday at the KOTV/Channel 6 site in the Brady District.  Is this the long-awaited beginning of construction?

Apparently...

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1375.snc4/164755_194814780532066_100000106350168_770244_4000024_n.jpg)

Tribune Lofts two...(the Metro at Brady Arts District)

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs894.ash1/180275_194809153865962_100000106350168_770233_6266402_n.jpg)

(Stole these off a friend's FB page btw.)

Wow, the Brady District is going to be a very different place just one year from now. Critical mass was reached some time ago and the area now is on the verge of booming. The ballpark just changed everything.

I was afraid they would need a new "coming soon" sign before this thing got under way.

Will be nice to see some development where that ugly field is now. Glad to see this project pulled through and is back on track.

That entire corner of the district between Boston and Cincinnati will be much improved.  You'll have the Griffin building fronting Cameron, the new urban park between Cameron and Brady, and the Visual Arts Center between Brady and Archer.  Hopefully that will lead to more infill between this area and the ballpark.

Now if we can just get the Boulder bridge rebuilt to better connect Brady to the rest of downtown...

Wider sidewalks on the overpasses at Main, Cincinnati and Detroit would also be nice.  It always feels no narrow walking across.  The bridges are already way too wide..

Yes, wider sidewalks on the bridges would be amazing.
I had forgotten about the new park. Is that part of the streetscaping plan?

Per the article above:

Does anybody have renderings of the new Griffin communications studio? I can't make it out very well on the sign in the picture.

From a link Grizzle provided a while back.

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8135260 (http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8135260)

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/8135260_BG2.jpg)

Thanks, will this building front the street or be set back. The rendering seems to show the building set back. I would much prefer it to front the street.

Wow, the groundbreaking for this project was nearly 3 years ago.  That was like 2 recessions and 3 major East End development announcements ago....

I'm hoping this time they don't let the grass grow back over it.

Good write up.  No real news but a great recap of what, where and when.

Maybe I missed them (on my phone, can't read while posting), but add coming soon:

New bar at the abandoned bank at boston/cinci and 7th.

New skyscraper and development across from the bok.

Ymca building bought by brick hugger.

All of that was in the article. lol

Well then, good write up.   ;D

It mentions work continuing on the restaurant and bodega on the ground floor of the Detroit Lofts. Previous articles mentioned January as an opening date for that stuff. I see there's a (new-ish?) for rent sign on the space fronting Archer.

Anybody know how that restaurant and bodega are coming along?

It does seem as though Griffin has started(resumed) work on this project, but the News on 6 has not done any kind of story over this. That to me, seems weird. I mean it's their own building. Could this possibly be another project?

It's not happening in OKC, so it wasn't deemed newsworthy. ;)

You're probably right. I hate the whole "Oklahoma's Own" thing. News on 6 is a Tulsa station and News9 is an OKC station. Please keep them separate!

I thought they iced the project and / or reduced it in scale when they became Oklahoma City's own.

I've heard rumors of that but don't know anything for sure. I hope this is still the same, very large project that they first announced. If it is, or anything close for that matter, it should be a great addition to Brady.

This, the voices tell me, is the new channel 6 helicopter pad being built.

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs774.ash1/166485_195334743813403_100000106350168_773425_6058466_n.jpg)

[sigh]

I should've pointed out that does not mean other parts of the development are not happening.

I really, really hope so.

Glacier Confection across from Caz's chowhouse.

I had some yesterday.

Holy moly, you will make any chocolate lover your biggest fan if you provide them with something from this shop.

I'm not a sweets guy and I have to admit, it's worth going back.

When is the "John Hope Franklin Reconciliation Park" actually open?
Or are we supposed to enjoy it from outside the locked gates?

I went in last Saturday at 10AM or so

Everything I can find says noon-5pm Thursdays-Sundays. I'm not sure it should even be called a park when it's only open a few hours a week. I'm not gonna go out of my way to go there.

[rant]Tulsa could shed the reputation that we roll up the sidewalks at 5pm if we, you know, didn't roll up the sidewalks at 5pm. Parks that close at 5pm. Downtown restaurants that close at 9pm on a Saturday night, close hours early or have private parties on Saturday nights, etc. [/rant]

They pay a security guard to watch the place when it's open so they keep limited hours. I'm not certain what potential fear they are protecting against with the security guard: potential racial tension,  potential gang activity, potential defacement/vandalism, potential public urination, potential Ann Coulter? Seems misplaced to me.

LOL

Does anybody know the status on the KOTV project? When I was there last night there was a fence around the entire lot, and it appeared that more than the helicopter pad was being built. Anybody know for sure?

I fixed that for you.

It has already been vandalized a few times.  They may be over-reacting, but hey, they worked hard to make it happen and they have a vision of how they want to see it maintained.  If it fell into dis-repair, I'm sure that would draw charges of neglect, mis-management....yada yada yada.  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  

But you do realize it is across the street from where potentially several hundred mildly intoxicated to down right drunk people will spill out into the area....late night club venues, John 3:16 etc etc.   If in time it proves unwarranted, then so be it.  They're just being proactive,which in Tulsa should be applauded.

http://www.katv.com/story/13537967/memorial-park-vandalized-organizers-working-to-preserve-sacred-grounds?redirected=true (http://www.katv.com/story/13537967/memorial-park-vandalized-organizers-working-to-preserve-sacred-grounds?redirected=true)

 See, thats why we can't have anything nice around here.

Also why you have to wait in the world's slowest line at the downtown post office to buy a stamp. No vending machines there for the same reason.

It appears they are doing site work there as I saw heavy equipment and a construction trailer on-site.  Same for the new park the south, and the Mathews Warehouse south of that.  The whole area is fenced off and starting construction; should be exciting to watch over the next year.  That along with the Tribune Lofts building (I'll post pics tomorrow, they have made a lot of progress) and the hotel development north of that, which doesn't look like it has started yet.  Still lots of redevelopment and infill to go in Brady but things are moving in the right direction.

Yeah, the Brady District is moving very quickly in the right direction. I think it's really cool that coming in to downtown off the Northern leg of the IDL you see three continuous blocks of construction.

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kwgs/news.newsmain/article/0/1/1825016/StudioTulsa/Downtown.Development.in.the.City.of.Tulsa.An.Update


Listen to the whole thing, it's very interesting and provides a lot of information.

I heard this last week. Interesting discussion

  What no mention of the Tulsa Art Deco Museum? tsk tsk   ;)

Hey Artist...I heard the Tulsa Club bldg. was out of contract two weeks ago. Not sure, but the buyer may have decided to bail.

Just fyi in case you want to grab some government funding and run with it.....

  If we were further along, perhaps lol.  However, we are trying to do everything on private donations only.  So we shall see.

From Tulsa World:

Three downtown housing projects selected to receive tax funds

(http://thecannizzaros.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/good-news3.jpg)

Does that mean that all three projects are going to happen?  Or does it mean that these projects are going to take the award into consideration to see if maybe sometime in the future it might possible lead to negotiations to someday break ground on a project for future construction depending on economic indicators in existence at a time in which construction contractors are in preliminary negotiations for certain project possibilities?  It seems alot of downtown projects get talked about.  I'd like to see some action in my lifetime.

South Fifth?

Most projects that get these awards are completed, only one was never started.  Two of the three awards are to the Snyder family that has completed both previous awards.

Done:
Mayo Hotel
Mayo Building
Philtower
Tribune Building
Detroit Lofts

Currently Under Construction:
Tribune II

Not Done:
Sagar's 1st Street Lofts (half built and in foreclosure)

Never started:
Kanbar's Transok Building (money returned and reused)

Anyone have any details on the Bill White project? Is this new construction?

Scratch that, I suppose the Bill White project is a refurb of this building

(http://cbk1.google.com/cbk?output=thumbnail&cb_client=maps_sv&thumb=2&thumbfov=60&ll=36.154042,-95.985330&cbll=36.153894,-95.985723&thumbpegman=1&w=300&h=118)

Mark Larson owns most of the buildings that comprise what was commonly referred to as the "Bill White buildings" in the "East Village".  Prior to selecting the Greenwood site the donors to what become ONEOK field had this land under contract.  Larson bought it in 2009.  He is originally from Edmond and owns several companies there and in Tulsa.  He has family ties that have extensive experience in history re-purposing on the east coast.  The building they received money for is a two story building that is about 28,000 sq ft on the corner of 4th & Elgin.  The cool thing about it is the ceilings are 16 foot.  It has the potential to be one of the only "lofts" (like people see lofts in the moves/TV) in downtown.

How in earth are they going to fit 50 units AND commercial space in that little building? FWIW how are they going to get 80 units into the Vandever Building?

No, that's the Tulsa Opera building

Wow, I'm actually very pleased with their decisions here. All of them are restoring vacant buildings which is a plus since we have so many of them left, and it will provide us with a combined total of 210 new units downtown. Honestly, I think the TDA actually got the best bang for their buck here. I'm impressed!

Also, where is the Vandever Building?

per the article: 202 S 5th St... not sure of actual address - it's on 5th between Main & Boston
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3013/2988481217_a3a5e987d7.jpg)

I thought the Tulsa Opera was going into the old fire house

(http://cbk3.google.com/cbk?output=thumbnail&cb_client=maps_sv&thumb=2&thumbfov=120&ll=36.153654,-95.984237&cbll=36.153645,-95.984252&thumbpegman=1&w=300&h=118)

I'm wondering if it wouldn't have made more sense to award to projects that are fairly close together to build to critical mass. For example try to grow the CBD with the Vandever, YMCA and Will's Enterprise Building lofts. That way you are adding to the Mayo, the Mayo bld and the Philtower.

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see a seed planted in the east end (village, whatever), but it seems peripheral at this point in time.

There were 13 proposals.  4 were from Snyder's group.  (YMCA, Vandever's, MidCo building @ 3rd and Cheyenne, and Macy Snyder's warehouse at 2nd and Lansing.

The others were as follows:

Bill White Chevrolet conversion, Larson/Skaggs Group

119 Downtown, Jim Hawkins/River City Dev.  They were removed from consideration due to not having site control.

Enterprise Building, Sharp/Wilkins

Elliot Nelson, 140 Apartments, New Construction @ 2nd and Greenwood

GreenArch, 70 Apartments, New Construction Greenwood and Archer

Metroplains, for their 40 units of low income housing at Boston and Archer.

Urban 8,  Patrick Fox.  8 For Sale townhouses, 3rd and Greenwood, adjacent to Elliot's apartment project.

One Place.  Pelligrini/Eggleston/SJS Hospitality.  My sources say they were asking for $ for the hotel portion of the project.

Formmation.  Chuck Tollefson's group.  Probably associated with housing they proposed for the old Hartford building site.

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/15285575_BG1.jpg)

NewsOn6.com

TULSA, Oklahoma -- The Rotary Club of Tulsa broke ground Wednesday on a $1 million downtown plaza dedicated to the volunteer spirit of Tulsa.

Rotary Plaza is the group's centennial project and a gift to the City of Tulsa. It will feature five bronze sculptures on a landscaped plaza.

The plaza will be located on the southwest corner of the Williams Center Green, on Third Street between Main and Boston.

"This is a milestone event in the 98-year history of our club," said President Phil Lakin. "We are pleased to start construction and look forward to the dedication this fall."

The sculptures are by Tulsa artists Jay O'Meilia and David Nunneley and will capture the spirit of volunteerism.  There will also be a granite column describing Tulsa as "America's Most Generous City."

This looks like a companion piece to ORU's praying hands.

The rendering doesn't make me hellapumped either.

There's a "he's got the whole world in his hands" pun in there somewhere but I can't quite find it.

I've seen renderings of this for a few years, it's met mediocre feedback for awhile because the sculptures are of things like a kid on crutches, with what looks like a giant bowling ball coming after him. I've been hoping they would go more abstract, but now I'm just hoping it looks better completed than in renderings.

At worst, at least it means that plot of land gets a good reworking/sprucing up.

Hilarious, lol.

TIMMAY!

Nothing says "celebration" like a kid on crutches and people thursting for water!   Does anyone know what part of the Williams Green this is going to be situated?  The whole park is in need of an update, but I'm not sure this is going to justify a million dollars.   Since my office looks out over it, I'm hoping it looks better than the rendering.

You beat me to it. Same thought ran through my head as well.

If you know where the Mayfest main stage goes... right directly in front of that.

yup -  SW corner.
they've got a big tree down to a stump, and a little billboard sign up with the rendering

If I'm Daily Grill I'm just thrilled this hunk is going in front of my restaurant.  Is that park deeded over to the city?  Or does Williams own it?  Paging, Jeff!

Williams owns it and has been talking about a complete redo at some point.

If they own it then they should be asking for a higher quality installation.  Just saying...

Looks a lot like
(http://johnii2.tripod.com/wtcfountain2.jpg)

Can you imagine the Hell that would present itself if there was a fountain added like that though?

We'd have pom-pommed Owassans galore slamming vehicles left and right through there.

Hang some soap-on-a-rope on those benches and install a washboard or two.  Urban Outdoorsman hygiene facility.

Indeed.   Lets put a scale model of the WTC fountain in front of our scale model of a WTC tower.

I'm not sure this is the case.

We originally owned it, but I think Central Parking might own it now because it's considered part of the South Garage.... (It's basically the "roof" of the South Garage)

Let me ask around.

If I recall correctly, Central Parking doesn't own that garage, they only operate it for the city via Tulsa Parking Authority.  Which means, it is owned by the city/Tulsa Parking Authority.  However, I don't recall TPA being in control of the surface park.

Wow, so we get this and get to keep to crumbling fountain.  Yippee!

My sources agree.  The city owns it, but who manages it isn't as clear.

Does that mean Tulsa Now can claim it?

We can hold a barn raising on it or something.

  Any word on who designed this?  I am also curious to know what they are thinking design/artistically wise.  I hate to pile on here and have us sound like a TW or News Channel "pick a number" comment section, but I personally am not really getting it.  

  Just my opinion, but in thinking about things of this nature there are a couple of factors I would want to consider.  While still keeping the message I want to get accross (generosity and giving) and being something of quality construction. What the biggest WOW factor I can create with my budget, and or, whats the most multi-purpose and functional thing I can create with the budget. Either of which should equal something thats enjoyable.

I got my info from someone who works in the Williams realty group.

Today I saw the red brick building on the northeast corner of Cincinnati and 10th was being demolished.  Is this going to become yet another surface parking lot for TCC or something else?

Haven't you noticed the dire shortage of surface parking downtown?

Was it the building in between two existing surface lots?

Yes. I saw on my way home on Friday, too.

Yes, but now we have a whole series of parking lots there now rather than having them akwardly split up with pesky buildings.   

I don't know if this is TCC doing this, but if this is how they are going to expand downtown, perhaps we don't want them there.  They aren't thinking, "How can we be good urban citizens/partners/neighbors, fit in with an urban setting and improve downtown as an urban setting and encourage mass transit or walking",,, they are thinking, well I don't know what it is they are thinking really.

When you have a good urban landscape, people don't mind walking a bit, they actually enjoy it.  There is plenty of parking that could have been shared with say Boston Ave on the periphery of downtown for instance.  Students could park there on week days and have walked past interesting buildings with shops and things in them.  Can't now of course because TCC ripped everything out.  Could have helped spur more and better mass transit use in downtown, which the city apparently wants to do, but what TCC is doing actually hurts that, at least in that part of downtown.  The one, sort of positive, I can see is that the TCC/Church parking lots become first stage park-n-ride for areas like the Blue Dome and Brady Arts, but even then those areas will hopefully be served by the rail going to the west bank and even OSU Tulsa.

We have got to get people thinking... you park outside of downtown and ride in on bus or rail.  Otherwise we will end up with a "fake" downtown with fake, superficial density that wont make our transit cost effective and our urban environment real and truly desirable and enjoyable.  We are a small, slow growing city that can't rely on rapid growth, possibly, maybe, getting our downtown to work out right.  We will have to be smart about it and THINK it through a little bit.  If we do, that can be our ticket to evolving into a real, undiscovered, very desirable, urban gem that people will flock to.     

I know TCC gets a bad rap (and typically its deserved) but the Center For Creativity is a great space.  It's very urban and well designed to take advantage the site.  We just need them to do more of that.  Tuls is lucky to have two colleges with such proximity to the core.  Shame on us for not capitalizing on it.

On the flip side, the churches that surround TCC are somewhat of a barrier to private investment.  The IDL and their reluctance to develop UCAT land keep private capital from making OSU better.

Hi all new to forum...

The land belongs to the parking authority. They did have final say on okaying the project. Rotarians say they came up with the design and turned to local artists (O'Meilia and Nunnely) to capture their four main goals in bronze, plus design the globe. They're thrilled with the location because it's central -- and this is the first real "brick and mortar" project the Rotary's done... their fervent hope is it will prompt the city to clean up the Williams Green and get the fountain working, etc. http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/new-1-million-project-wont-use-tax-money/nDKWc/ (http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/new-1-million-project-wont-use-tax-money/nDKWc/)

Welcome, Artiem, and thanks for the info!

Maybe (the infamous) "they" are trying to emulate nearby geography... the Great Plains.
 
 ;D

Which is why I think OSU should buy up the property north of TCC from Boulder to Detroit south of 8th and build up its campus there partnering with TCC and sharing facilities.  TCC then would be able to expand to the south and east.  All higher education downtown would be in one location and numerous surface lots would be developed.  Once the move is complete the Greenwood campus could then be converted into a research center for OSU.

I like OSU Tulsa's location. It has alot of potential.  I only wish they had moved the medical school to that campus instead of expanding the campus on Southwest Boulevard.

I agree, there are already buses between the campuses, making it a bit more walk-able between them would enrich the connection. We can also hope as TCC expands downtown that they work with OSU, and TU to expand classes and degree offering that mesh with those colleges.

It would be nice to see a parking garage directly across 10th with first story retail (Coffee shop, deli or something.) Then the lots on either side of the parking garage turned into green space and saved for long term development of the campus, more green space on the lot on Cincinnati across from the campus (if they own it, if not donated to the school.) Finally  the lot around the arts center turned into more classroom space.

The majority of the other lots should be sold off to fund the parking garage and other improvements. Maybe the lot behind the Parking Garage could become apartments with discounts to students in TCC or OSU Tulsa. Maybe keep the lots to the north of the campus for future development.

They are thinking they need parking and parking garages cost about 12x what a surface lot does.

TCC wants a parking garage, but no-one is donating the dough to pay for it.

Raise the tax rate on surface parking to make parking garages more competitive.

But aren't they a university?  You know, a place where your supposed to learn and or know things?  Like the difference between urban and suburban?  Aka, urban, lots of density and buildings, you use transit and walk,,, suburban, very little density, lots of parking.  I know they teach remedial courses there but zeesh, surely the "descision makers" at least know where they are? lol 

again, they know. It's purely financial.

So its confirmed that this will be a surface parking lot? Arrrgh.

But don't surface parking lots cost money?

Well if they keep people from going downtown because they are fugly they will cost money.

How many blocks in a row can you see when you stand on one end of the sea o' parking lots now?

Maybe I'm being too negative.  Is TCC talking to the Bell family?  Oooooo, maybe the Bell family and the Murphy's.  Big-assed wooden wet-and-wild.

I do think TCC will develop its lots and the buildings will be of high quality, like the Center for Creativity.  But it make take decades for that to happen.  Which is why OSU should move to that area and build it up which, like I said, would free up the Greenwood campus to be converted into research facilities (an area OSU wants to improve).  Have the undergrads and grad students at 9th & Boston with student housing in the vicinity, and build up the Greenwood campus as OSU's premier research campus with the ATRC already devoted to research and a second research building eventually planned across Elgin.  That is the only way I see those lots disappearing at a faster than glacial pace...

It seems that the goal for getting rid of what is now graciously called "Cathedral Square" (aka giant wasteland of ever decreasing land values) is the rasing of the land values of those properties until such time that it is cost inefficiant to have surface lots.  They sell off their extras, build a parking garage and everybody goes home happy.  The problem is that TCC has dug itself into a hole.  Onlt developement in the surrounding areas will help.  I think that cathedral square is going to be the final push of downtown infill.  Uptown, cherry street, the pearl, the brady, and all the surrounding districts will have to be developed first, butressing the area and driving up the land values.  Only then will the 70's era dinosaurs behind the wanton destruction of downtown be vanquished.   

I'm glad to see that alot people have noticed TCC's disappearing buildings magic trick (they have been working on that part of their act for years).  Next they will knock down the avanti and the sunoco buildings.  Mark my words. (please let me be wrong)

 They don't need a freaking parking garage any more than they need that sea of surface parking.  You know, WE taxpayers, through TCC, would be the ones paying for the parking garage, WE are paying for the surface parking, on top of that WE are losing taxable land/buildings and redevelopment opportunities.  Aaaall that money we taxpayers spend for parking, surface or future garage, and are losing, now and in the future, could have gone to building up transit in downtown.  We could have been redeveloping that area, infilling that area, making it into an enjoyable, pedestrian friendly, walkable district thats making money, and that would also be helping to fund really good transit.

 Instead of slowly, steadily, creating suburban and parking, we could have been creating urban and transit. We could have a trolley or buses going by and stopping at the campus every 5-7 minutes looping through all areas of downtown and connecting to the plentiful parking we already have strewn throughout the area and outside of downtown like the Fin-Tube site and West Bank that we hope to connect together via rail.

If TCC wants to purchase some land for future expansion, fine. But lease it and leave any businesses on the tax rolls and take that money, plus the money they would spend turning it into a parking lot and put it towards transit for the campus.

We can create a downtown thats to die for, that you can enjoyably spend a whole day in, that you won't feel any desire to drive from one part to the next in.  You can park on one side and enjoy walking or quickly take transit to another part of downtown, or park outside and transit in. And love it.

People will pay big money to fly all the way across the country to go to Disney World and walk down a beautiful little, old fashioned, main street.  And will take busses, rail and boats from their hotels to get there each day.  They will fly or drive for hours and days to get to Santa Fe to go to a pedestrian friendly downtown to see art galleries.  I look forward to the day when I can afford to get back to NYC and spend all day, all week, walking and walking, and will take all forms of transit into the city to do that.

If you create a really good, enjoyable, interesting, wonderful, high quality urban environment with good transit, people will beat a path to your door.  Paraking garages take money away from transit and detract from real density and will leave you like every other mediocre, half alive downtown. Tulsa could use that competitive edge, that "killer app" of having a small but super quality, superb urban environment.  It's got the potential to be fantastic, IF we use our heads and be brave.

I don't think the Sun building is going anywhere soon. Our offices are in the Sun building, and they've been doing a lot of work recently to update the interior. Additionally, the property management company has been actively seeking new tenants, and has even gotten some of the Avanti tenants.

Theartist, The nature of TCC's campuses is such that there will always be people who commute in from the suburbs to go there.  I would LOVE to see people use mass transit options (Heck I did the BA express bus for awhile).  But I think there will always be a large commuter element at TCC that uses cars.  Or at least for a very long time.  In fact, I feel that TCC Metro's enrollment would go down because of a decline or elimination of parking .  Oh I han hear the southies kvetching now "Oh, we can't go down there.  There isn't anywhere to park."  It seems like you and I are both very grand thinkers.  I always think on the scale of "world class cities", as you rightly put it.  I think that being a urban development cheerleader in tulsa has truned me into a begger.  Anything at all is better than nothing.  Maybe I need to get back to my radicalist roots...

TURroby,  That is good to hear.  I was being bombastic.  When I atended TCC the sun building seemed like it was so empty that it was on the edge of being demoed any day.  I'm glad that it has come under the wing of a good property manamgent company.

The Cameron family (American Fidelity, First Fidelity Bank, Tulsa Shock, OKC Thunder, etc) out of OKC owns the Sun Building.

I have seen several grand ideas for the building, it is sad none of them have come to fruition.

It was pretty pathetic for years. I don't think they are doing anything grand with the building, just updating the interior to make it more attractive as new tenants move in.

I have decided that it might be useful for someone in this town to champion  "urban perfection" and push for, what here would seem to be a completely radical idea.  Hopefully people will perhaps start to "get it" to, understand the other option to the point that the usual way of doing things might be moderated a bit.   I don't expect that I will get what I want, but I  hope to educate and make what we are getting look all the more horribly absurd and thus hopefully encourage something better.  

Artist - your idealism is a positive force for change, but surface lots have proliferated downtown because owners make more money renting parking spaces than they can renting class C or worse office space.  The new assessment to pay for Oneok field only increases this economic advantage.  While residential conversion has soaked up some of the available space that was unrentable as office space, there is still a lot of vacant or near vacant buildings downtown that cannot be brought up to Class A or B space without a huge investment.  It is only when demand for more residential and more office/commercial uses up this surplus space that land values will really start to rise enough to make surface lots a less profitable use of downtown real estate.  That is going to take a lot more jobs locating downtown and a lot more people living downtown.  We are making slow progress, but all of the mass transit dreams in the world cannot change the fact that it is relatively fast and cheap to drive to and park downtown and that is not going to change in the near future.

You crazy Tulsa Now people
Thinking of downtown as a Central Business District.
We have one of the greatest Central Parking Districts in the nation.
TCC is just trying to make the CPD even greater.

Don Quixote (Artist) meet The Donald (dtowner)!

I saw this at work about a decade ago. I contacted the owner of a small unique downtown property about buying the property to operate a small business. He could only see the value of the property expressed as how many cars he could lease/park on the property monthly. He had no concept of the small building as a typical business. Eventually a larger company presented him with an offer he couldn't refuse. Ironically, it is a car rental company.

edited to reflect correct spelling of Quixote. Not a word I use a lot.

Please note that I meant no disrespect with those monikers. It just seems to me that there is this constant natural battle between creativity and business and I thought you both represented them very well with your posts. Don't let me be a thread ender....again.

Disrespect - The Donald is the best moniker anyone has ever given me!

I believe that the Avanti building is now completely empty.  They were losing tenants like crazy, and only had one or two left, so they kicked them out and plan on mothballing it.  That's not very promising for it's future.

Perhaps TCC will buy it and repurpose it for more classroom space.

Well if they keep ripping buildings down you bet it will take awhile to fill the lots back up.

There are at least 6 proposed ground up multi-tenant developments planned for down town. There are at least as many plans to repurpose existing buildings.  TCC is not playing in the present.

Noticed more work going on at the old B of A drive through on 7th today.  Anything happening there or just stripping the structure?

I think Tinker Credit union is going in there.

Darn. Would have liked to see new construction here. I've heard that before the drive through went in there were at least six brick and mortar buildings on this block. I think Lyons was located here?

Yeah it's really sad when you look what used to be on that block.

Maybe tinker will do something about the people sleeping in the drive through every night. They are really stealing the the thunder of the 1-2 occupy tulsa people.

Just look at what was around Holy Family.

(http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/getthumbnail/collection/p15020coll1/id/7823)

Hotel at 7th and Main
(http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/getthumbnail/collection/p15020coll1/id/1784)

I've long though that we should have a second pot of downtown housing money specifically for projects that rebuild buildings that have been knocked down.

How about tying some of the redevelopment money that the city loans to build new things to having each new structure have some sort of Art Deco influence in its design. Whether it be classic Art Deco or contemporary design with a deco twist.  You can still have a downtown that has an incredible variety of styles, looks and time periods, while also creating a very unique, engaging and special identity.  Miami has done it with their unique style of Deco, we could kind of be the midwestern counterpoint to that with our own more varied look. 

Per TW:


Coney Island in downtown Tulsa to move

I'd be a happy (and fatter) man if they moved somewhere near nightlife and stayed open late and on weekends.

They were open 10-8 Mon-Sat a few years back, but they cut back on their hours right as downtown began to pick up steam. Now they're only open Mon-Fri 'til 7 and not at all on Saturdays.

I'm glad they're looking for another space downtown instead of closing shop, but it irritates me to no end when people say things like, "I'm looking in downtown but I'd also be willing to consider the Brady district", like the Brady District isn't a part of downtown. Similar phrases have been uttered in countless news stories talking about how close the Blue Dome District or Greenwood are to downtown. Newsflash: They're in downtown!

Brady District + Greenwood + Blue Dome + Cathedral Square + Gunboat Park + "Deco District" (I still don't like that name) + everything else in the IDL = Downtown.

That said, I wonder why the owner is razing the building. I know it's in terrible shape, but wasn't there talk one time about renovating it?

I am pretty much always always pro preservation, but I wouldn't mnd if this building went away if there were Solid plane for the lot.

It's catty-corner to One Place.  You'd think that might make it worth something to someone. 

American Parking would love it.  I have hopes it goes another direction.

According to sagar it's an orphan project.

 ???

Sorry for being obscure.  It was refference to something sagar said about the last round of downtown housing money.  He said that renovating the YMCA was an orphan project.  Meaning it was all by its wittle sewlf (ignoring the BOK center, new tower and Mayo hotel).  It was in one of Ray Pearcey's blowjob Sager-worship pieces that he wrote for UTW.

BTW isn't it wierd that people only ever quote him (like a liver spot covered oracle) rather than him writing anything himself?


...

And the Aloft Hotel, and three blocks from the convention center, two blocks from the Mayo.

Jeez, I can't listen to him anymore. No wonder it took so long for downtown to turn the corner if people put stock in anything Sager the Orafice-acle has to say.

Does anyone know if the Coney Island building/hotel is one of the buildings delinquent on the downtown assessment?  There is a sign in front offering monthly parking for $85.  Given the way this building is configured, I'm not sure they would get a lot more parking spaces after its razed, but any spaces will generate more income than the hotel rooms do currently (minus the Coney Island rent).  Of course, getting rid of unused building space will reduce the downtown assessment.

I wish I had Artist's vision for this building, but it is hard for me to see much potential.

It may not be feasible to rehab in this economy as a hotel. But I have to think it could be repurposed. Its construction is modern enough that it could become a storage facility (downtown residents are going to need storage space) or something more imaginative than just parking.

I've not been but just saw a tweet about "New Record Store- Downtown Tulsa: The Vinyl Countdown. 11th & Elgin."

(https://p.twimg.com/Airo-SZCQAABbxU.jpg)

Sorry if this is a re-post.

Is that the old Lyon's Indian Store?

The store is located at 322 E. 11th St.

I think it is actually on 11th between Detroit & Elgin in that funny little jog just north/east of "The Doghouse".

Where Carson inexplicably meets Elgin?

I love that little jog and wish someone would carefully, conscientiously, and gorgeously turn every one of those old apartment buildings into gut rehab condos. 

I also wish I could have a pony. 

I think that jog combined with the traffic circle (that hopefully will happen soon) combined with Gunboat Park could be an amazing part of downtown.

Per Day & Nite Rug Cleaners' FB post today:


(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/251436_238866152813416_212712762095422_814258_728591_n.jpg)

I saw all the traffic cones going up last week and this weekend.  However, no one confirmed what was going on.  Be nice of a local publication to do a story on it...

Hey rdj! They've started the work on the traffic circle by placing a ton of cones on the street! Thought I'd send you a heads up.

WeVus, if its where I'm thinking, my first office when I opened an ad service was there. A quanset hut building right where the road curves from 11th into Elgin. Used to be a cab company next door. Cold in the winter for sure. That was in 1989 I believe.

I wanted to buy the multi story apartment building on the North East corner that sits next to an empty lot. It backs up to a convenience store. Cool old building that hadn't had any updates since the twenties. Each of the apartments had Ice Boxes since the Warehouse Market was simply a walk across the street for tenants. It had a large ornate entry way awning. I think it was only $50k. Problem was, the savvy real estate guys who listed the property had convinced the owners to split off the parking lot and sell it separately. To buy the two together was too much. Hard to rent a flat without any off street parking when there are several other apartment buildings nearby. Couldn't make the numbers work and gave up on it. It has has declined sine then. I should have persevered.

Ponies are over rated. Poop a lot and have nasty dispositions.

I agree. Unicorns are better.

So much better.

that's not the old Western Sun FCU building is it?

That's been Day & Night as long as I can remember.

I'm pretty sure that was WSFCU in the late 70s/early to mid 80s.

I asked my boss if he remembered as we used to work on Day & Night's boiler and he said: "forever".  Having been in the back part of the building, it would have been pretty funky for a credit union, JMO.  The location would have made sense with the Sun building not being far away.

Are you sure WSFCU wasn't in the building on the corner of 10th & Detroit?  It's currently/was MCC Communications?

But at one point they weren't in the Sunoco Building.  That much I'm sure of.  And I remember that old cubed glass in the front entrance.  This may not be the building, and for all I know that building may be gone, but that cubed glass entrance stands out.

Per the 1971 Tulsa phone book, Day and Nite Cleaners was "At the jog", 11th and Elgin.

Are old phone books available online to search?

I don't think so. I spent a lot of time looking through them at the downtown library (its lots more fun than online anyway). I think it would be difficult to scan them without damaging them.

They are so much fun to analyze. For instance, my home phone number was originally listed as Mr. ______occupation, President, Home Ice Company. A few years later it was listed in 1928 as Mr. and Mrs. _____  with Mr's occupation as stockbroker. By 1929, its owner was listed as Mrs_____ and occupation...... widow. One might deduce the stock market crash created that widow.

Anyone got a smartassed comment to do this justice?  I'm empty.

Is this just rumor or are their actually plans to bulldoze Greenwood?

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-727386

What?! I have a preference for real life. Doing research with real print vehicles, with fragile hard bindings, that exude the smell of decaying 100 year old paper and ink while listening to nearby recovering alcoholics snore peacefully? Can't beat it.

I hope that article is part of an effort to revitalize the use of those facilities and mobilize lethargic support for them. I can't imagine losing the Greenwood Cultural Center. The parks though, are always at risk and so it is distressing that they would frame this as a North-South issue. McClure is not really a south park. It sits north of 11th near Memorial. I don't call that South. The Newblock pool on Charles Page just west of downtown is also dormant as well as many others around town. Its hard for public officials to justify public funding for unused facilities.

But most distressing, and indicative of racial ignorance at the state capitol, is the remark made by a Republican legislator about funding opening up if they would simply drop the word "Greenwood" from the name of the center.

For the record, here is the quote from the story:  "one state senator declared that if the center would omit Greenwood from its name and replace it with Tulsa Art Center, possible funding could be obtained".   Note that no party affiliation is given.

Are there really any plans to buldoze the Greenwood Culltural Center?  Seems unlikely.

Good catch. They trashed the republicans and conservatives so well I simply filled in the blank.

Who exactly would be bulldozing the place and for what benefit? Seems the PR would be enough to turn it into something useful.

Nothing at all.  Maybe 'cause I happen to agree with AquaMan...real is always better than virtual.

Have long wanted an electronic reader to make reading easier on business trips - few things as boring as sitting in an airport for 6 hours waiting for a flight (except if there is a good bar nearby!).  Even started a couple times to design/build my own.  But now I find that even at prices under $100, I still haven't bought one.  Go figure.  Would probably just fill it up with Gutenberg project works anyway...and then I would just have to read culturally significant works that might actually benefit my intellect in some way.  Can't have any of that - as I get older and more inflexible in my attitudes, I may want to be a Republican some day!!  Especially if I ever get to the 1%er status!!

Older, yes.  More inflexible, yes.  Republican, you?.  I don't think so.

I expect you intend that being older and more inflexible makes you prime material for being a Republican but you are wrong.  Old, cantankerous Democrats just get older and more cantankerous.  They don't change parties.

I've seen it happen time and time again!  Alzheimer's is insidious, merciless and the number one growth factor for the Republicontin party...

I am too much a Libertarian to be Republicontin, though.

You had to know I would make the necessary corrections.

See what I mean - it's already starting to affect you....

Gotta through you a bone once in a while to let you at least make an attempt.

Nice try.  No cigar though.

Your oldtimers disease is already affecting your spelling too.

See...what did I tell you...

It affects us all.

One trip through the line was enough for me.

You got in line for seconds though.

Whoever steps in to resurrect the Greenwood Cultural Center will get naming rights....it's just the way it works.

My ibooks on my phone already is.


p.s.: you and I should be best friends based on this post alone.

Have you been to the greenwood? The staff there is all but dysfunctional, they nickel and dime you if your renting the place, the conference area (big open room) is awkward, if they just tore half of it down and left the educational part they would have a ton of space for basketball courts and whatever they wanted. The whole place was built weird and is already out of date.

Redirect it's use.

What's the area need (other than a movie theater)? Does it lend itself to a higher education purpose?

My recommendation would be The Tate Teaching Tolerance Center .... you could carve out a portion for the Klan Museum.

Greenwood Cultural Center gets $10,000 donation

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Greenwood-Cultural-Center-gets-10-000-donation/puoN9il9K0SkJwJCNR1WPQ.cspx?rss=2448&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Greenwood-Cultural-Center-gets-10-000-donation/puoN9il9K0SkJwJCNR1WPQ.cspx?rss=2448&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

Apparently Airgas is moving some business downtown.

Anyone have info on this?  TW is closed to me this month...


and


Maybe if I wait long enough the whole story will be told bit by bit on FB.

I'll ask my sister-in-law; she works for the Airgas office down on Admiral just east of Peoria.

Did she work there when they tried to turn it into a crater?

Yep, she sure did.

I was going to say, they are nearly downtown as it is.

According to the Tulsa World they are taking 58,000 sq ft in the Hillcrest Building at 7th & Boulder.  It will be the central divisions accounting and administration center.

That should be some good payroll with jobs like that.

They've evidently been working on this move for over 5 months, and some of the employees are already over there, according to my brother (the husband of the sister-in-law).  She's not yet, but will be part of the move.  Parking will be free via an attached facility.  He wasn't sure if it was beneath it or beside it.

The Hillcrest building has an attached parking garage just to the south.  There is also a lot just north across 7th street.

Post on Downtown Tulsa FB:

(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/417160_296957707018707_189690514412094_754292_579716475_n.jpg)

I'll be down at nearly that exact spot Sunday afternoon around 3:30 (hockey); I'll try and get some photos (as well as my phone will take, which isn't bad in decent light).  I do know I'm down there enough to know they are making decent progress.  Concrete forms on the north side of the development were up about two weeks ago.

The parking garage at 2nd & Cheyenne/Boulder is a great place to watch this project rise.  They might not have the prettiest building downtown but Cimarex will have some of the best views in all directions.  The view to the west down the river valley as the sun sets is pretty nice.

When the BOK Center was going up I did half of my photography of the arena from that parking garage.  I also park there for the games now.  It is a great vantage point.

The live pictures of flaming cylinders flying like drunken rockets across still-flowing expressway traffic were epic.

(http://www.crablogic.com/Images/Other/fire3.jpg)

I was working on the 19th floor of the First Place Tower when that happened, it was epic to watch.

I love the human scud targets milling about in that photo.

Deco District Shops has there own FB page.  Apparently more are opening on the 1st.

The thing that we have that OKC doesn't have is the amount of local stores and restaurants in our downtown.  I love that this is happening.  We've all been waiting a while for this to happen.  Now I'm waiting for a new skyscraper to be announced.  and TCC to build a new building.

Very nearly the same angle as Townie the Southie took..this was from this afternoon, but I was a little farther south, almost up to the arena doors here.

(https://photos-6.dropbox.com/i/o/J7zLwa3ytV4NaFpL397X_oPaV1WjsCZkQJ44FTSb5-w/26442998/1327975200/fdcd573/2012-01-29_16-09-33_334.jpg)

First and Boulder could easily hold a scraper.

Yeah I would love for some of those lots that are 'behind' the BOK tower to vanish.  I think that the expansion of the parking garage on first street, might be a first step towards developing some of the surface lots.  Then again, It also might be prepairing the area for my pony that will be showing up any day now.

There are a lot of square blocks in downtown that could fit skyscrapers, and I've thought for a long time that the block bounded by 1st, 2nd, Boulder and the Williams Center would make a great one, but...

I'd rather see dozens of mixed-use, human-scaled, mid-rise buildings, with 5 or 6 floors permeate downtown rather than one large skyscraper. That's the stuff neighborhoods are built of. Buildings like the Devon Tower or BOK Tower are great, and they enhance a lot of things about a city's image, but low- and mid-rise buildings are the bones that make solid, dense, active, and unique areas.

I agree.  Tulsa already has a large enough and attractive enough skyline for a city our size.  We actually probably have more skyscrappers and a larger skyline than other cities our size.  Oklahoma City didn't really have as much, so the Devon Tower is kind of their highlight.  I've seen it from the highway, and it just kind of sticks out on its own and shows how low their skyline was before that tower.

I too would rather see more density at the street level before we worry about more skyscrappers.  I would also like to see our existing buildings connected better like in larger cities.  We have lots of larger buildings with nothing much in between.  The walk from the BOK Tower to the Hillcrest Building feels like miles and you feel as though you need to get in a car to get from one part of downtown to another, mainly because there is not much connecting them or wirth seeing while walking by.  Hopefully that will change and downtown continues to develop and become denser and vacant areas get renovated and filled.

Well said.  People often say that Tulsan's won't walk far downtown.  Problem is that nobody, even bonafied, hard core, city slicker, used to walking miles in the city, types don't want to walk very far in our downtown.  We have torn out a lot of our pedestrian friendly fabric, and a lot of the newer stuff that has gone in is just as miserable to walk past as an empty parking lot.  

Comedian Garrison Keillor when he was in Tulsa commented on our how nice some of our old buildings were downtown, and then noted how interesting it was that we have arraged it, with all the parking lots, so that you can admire each one individually.  ;)

We ought to mix it up a little - bring in some new to mix with the old....

http://www.infernodevelopment.com/45-incredible-futuristic-scifi-3d-city-illustrations


I think Devon Tower in OKC was inspired by Limbo City halfway down this list.

(in the voice of a whiny 13 year old) but guys!  Can't I have both?  I want a mix of 4-10 story mixed use properties and I want an 80 story sky scraper. 

Look guys, we're just daydreaming here.  Might as well dream big.  That's why I'm still counting on that pony.

I don't disagree with you, but I think another couple of scrapers in the CBD is not a bad thing. I wouldn't want to see one in the Brady or Blue Dome, East End or Uptown. These areas need human sized infill.

Are the apartments at 6th and Boston still happening? I walk by the building daily and can't help but think it would be more interesting with people living there.

Will! Status please.

Heard that building was back on the market.

Oh great.  I really neaded a place to park when I go to mods. :/

The BOK parking lot on Archer across the bridge from the tower will be the site of the Oklahoma Music and Pop Culture Museum, if state funding ever comes through. If not, it will likely continue to be parking for BOK employees.

That's partially my point.  To make up for the parking the will lose on archer, the would have to expand their existing parking stock.

Tulsa World article in Suday's paper gives a nice overview of all the downtown projects underway or announced.  It is interesting for what is not listed - 310 Lofts.


Dwelling Spaces owner Mary Beth Babcock just has to look out her storefront window to see the changing face of downtown.

That's the location of Cam's Grocery, the long-awaited market. Or she could look two buildings down to a new restaurant, while a few blocks north a grocery store/restaurant concept is under way.

"We've been patiently waiting for the grocery stores to open," Babcock said. "For me, it'll be super convenient because I'll walk across the street and then just a few blocks home."

Downtown residents and business owners such as Babcock are at the forefront of one of downtown Tulsa's most significant overhauls in decades.

With new museums, more affordable housing, restaurants and two long-awaited grocers, 2012 could be the year that determines whether downtown has the makings of a destination retail, dining and entertainment district, along with a strong residential component.

Nearly $386 million worth of development projects are either under construction, announced or recently completed, according to a tally by the Tulsa Metro Chamber.

Downtown has added nearly 1,000 residents in the past three years and is poised to add hundreds more as new apartment and condominium projects near completion.

And a slew of new restaurants and other retail-oriented projects promises to add the kind of downtown shopping that fled to the suburbs decades ago.



"You can feel that stuff is happening," said Babcock, who established her apparel and gift store in 2006, before the BOK Center or ONEOK Field opened. "There's still not a ton of retail yet, but there are lots of restaurants. And it's good when more retailers open because we can tell people to come downtown."


Adding residents
Tom Taylor's apartment at the newly completed $12 million Metro at Brady building is just blocks from his new job at Emergency Infant Services, a short walk to numerous bars and restaurants, and minutes on foot from the BOK Center and ONEOK Field.

"When I started looking for a place, I wanted something different than my house in Oklahoma City," said Taylor, 40. "It seemed like downtown was thriving, and it was on the verge of thriving even more with all the activity around here."

Business owners say more downtown residents such as Taylor are the key to establishing a vibrant and sustainable retail district.

"We need more housing," said Elliot Nelson, who opened his first downtown bar, McNellie's Public House, in 2006. "The housing is what ensures the street life, people walking around seven days a week, 24 hours a day. It brings the constant activity."

Nelson has six restaurants and bars in the Blue Dome and Brady districts as well as a bowling alley, the Dust Bowl, that he opened last May.

At the beginning of 2009, there were some 3,000 people living downtown, but most condominiums in the core area were priced for upscale buyers in historic high-rises.

But in the past two years, developers have added or announced more than 400 new housing units downtown.

The downtown population is now close to 4,000.

More housing is on the way, including a mix of apartments, condominiums and even a group of single-family homes whose construction should begin this spring. Focus has also shifted to a variety of affordability levels for residents.

Nelson himself is investing in a $19.2 million apartment project on the east side of downtown that could include 142 units.

"One of the challenges of urban development is the price," he said. "The idea with this is to provide apartments for the same price that you would pay down on South Memorial."

Tulsa architect Pat Fox is working on a $2.1 million project along Greenwood Avenue where he hopes to build eight single-family houses, the first such downtown development in decades.


Adding retail
More people living downtown is providing a boost to retail, including two highly anticipated grocery stores.

Archer Market, run by city councilman and restaurant owner Blake Ewing, and Cam's Grocery both are set to open this spring, much to the delight of downtown residents.

The two markets will give the area its first grocery store presence in the decade since Homeland closed its store on Denver Avenue at 12th Street.

Two restaurants, Rib Crib and Albert G's BBQ, are working on new buildings near the Blue Dome District and should also open this spring.

"You're seeing a lot of new names move their businesses downtown that are not the old downtown crowd," Ewing said.

A few projects slated for completion in 2012 could herald the beginning of more retail development.

The first phase of the One Place development will add 19,000 square feet of street-front retail space across Denver Avenue from the BOK Center, with more to come as additional phases of the complex are completed.

Lee's Bicycles owner Adam Vanderberg's purchase of an old warehouse in the Blue Dome District in 2010 was part of a new wave of retailers taking a risk on downtown.

He moved his 93-year-old bicycle business from a successful location in the popular Brookside neighborhood to the untested downtown core.

"We made a big commitment two years ago when we left Brookside," Vanderberg said. "Often, moving can mean a kiss of death for retail."

He said the new store, in a 14,000-square-foot building he purchased on East Second Street, is doing similar sales volumes to his old Brookside store.

Vanderberg's building, which he split into three spaces, is also home to Fleet Feet, an athletic footwear and apparel store, as well as a fitness studio.

"We want more retail downtown," he said. "We don't have enough yet.

"There's a lot of vision, and I'm ready. I'm anxious for more retail and more dwelling. I think the dwelling needs to come back first, and that's happening. That's finally happening."



Growing up Brady
Downtown's historic music and entertainment district is hardly recognizable to people who haven't visited the area in a few months.

With three new museums, a park in addition to the existing Brady Theater and Cain's Ballroom, the Brady District is poised to become the city's arts and culture center.

A new $18.3 million headquarters for the Arts and Humanities Council of Tulsa, called the Hardesty Arts Center, is expected to open in September, with space for exhibitions as well as artist studios and classrooms.

Next door in the former Mathews Warehouse building will be the Zarrow Center, another art studio and exhibition space serving as a satellite for the Gilcrease Museum. A Woody Guthrie Museum is also in the works inside the Mathews Warehouse building.

Griffin Communications, owner of KOTV channel 6, is building an $11.8 million local headquarters. About 185 employees will work in the building when it opens later this year.

Organizers are also hoping to build a $40 million Oklahoma Pop Museum, a tribute to Oklahomans' contributions to music, movies and entertainment. That project is awaiting state funding.


Downtown by the numbers
$386 million
Projects under construction, recently completed or planned

3,995
Number of downtown residents, up by 1,000 since 2009

478
Apartment and condo units finished since 2009

244
New apartment or condo units planned for downtown

Source: Tulsa Metro Chamber





DOWNTOWN PROJECTS
1. Griffin Communications

Griffin Communications is building a new home for KOTV/News on 6, a handful of its other Tulsa properties and 185 employees. Scheduled to be completed later this year.

2. Brady Park

Taking the place of the now-demolished Central Freight loading docks, the new park will include green space and a “water feature,” along with geothermal wells that will help heat and cool the renovated Mathews Warehouse on the other side of Brady Street.

3. Mathews Warehouse

The old Mathews Warehouse building is undergoing a major reconstruction and will include the future home of a Philbrook Museum satellite location and the Zarrow Center for the Arts. Scheduled to be completed in May

4. Oklahoma Pop Museum

A 67,000-square-foot museum dedicated to the creative spirit of Oklahoma’s people and the influence of those artists on popular culture around the world.

5. Fairfield Inn and Suites

The $11 million project is set to be finished in October and will have 11,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space, as well as a bar in the lobby.

6. Hardesty Arts Center

The Arts and Humanities Council of Tulsa’s $18.3 million project is on schedule to open in the fall of 2012.

7. Brady District Flats

The $8.5 million, 40-unit building will be aimed at downtown workers looking for more affordable living options with a walkable commute. It will feature 40 units with rents ranging from $470 to $1,100.

8. Metro at Brady

Apartment building includes 75 units with a swimming pool and parking garage.

9. Boulder Bridge

Crews began Jan. 3 on the project that links First Street to Archer Street. The $8.3 million project is scheduled to be done in late summer to replace the structure that was built in 1929 and closed more than a decade ago.

10. City Parking Garage

Construction of a 260-space public parking garage is on schedule to be completed in the spring and is intended to help ease the demand for parking expected as One Technology Center and BOK Tower add tenants.

11. Archer Market

A Blake Ewing project that will have a market and restaurant on the base floor of the Detroit Lofts apartment building. Scheduled to be completed this spring.

12. Cam’s Grocery

New full-service grocery store on South Detroit Avenue will include fresh produce, deli and restaurant. Scheduled to be completed this spring.

13. Rib Crib

The Tulsa-based chain has signed a lease for a space in the Blue Dome District on First Street at Detroit Avenue. It’s the first downtown location for the barbecue restaurant company that has expanded to 45 locations in eight states.

14. Greenwood Lofts

The mixed-use development on the southwest corner of Greenwood Avenue and Archer Street is expected to begin in the next few months. A similar project is planned for the southeast corner of Greenwood and Archer.

15. Urban8

Eight single-family detached homes ranging from 1,900 to 2,800 square feet. Construction expected this spring.

16. Hartford Commons

A 142-unit apartment building with 200 on-site parking spaces. The project is still pending and is being done by downtown entrepreneur Elliot Nelson. Construction expected in late 2012.

17. Albert G’s BBQ

Owner Chuck Gawey is working to get into a place on East First Street in the building directly east of McNellie’s Public House.

18. East End Village

Developers Mark Larson and Travis Skaggs plan 50 rental units and commercial space at the former Bill White Chevrolet site.

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=53&articleid=20120311_46_E1_CUTLIN166719

Reading that article, I started daydreaming about a day when there would be 10,000+ people living downtown.  Dare to dream.

If current rates were to continue, about 330 new people a year, it will take about 18 years to get to that point.  But who knows the speed could ramp up.  Regardless, I will still be around and will enjoy watching our downtown grow every step of the way.


Oh, and btw, "Phase 1" of the Tulsa Art Deco Museum will be open starting Mayfest.  ;D   We will also be open on Fridays starting March 30th, from 11am-6pm.  Come on by and take a gander as we continue to add new displays and Art Deco artifacts!

An argument can be made that we are at the tipping point and, with the momentum of the current projects, things could really start to ramp up at a much faster rate the next few years.  Biggest factors will probably be success of current projects, the economy and financial markets.

I agree.  After-hours downtown is no longer a smattering of transient bars and the occasional show at the PAC.  The transformation has been amazing in just the last five to seven years.  I still can't believe all the cranes I saw in the air up in the Brady a few weeks ago.  It's an exciting time to be in Tulsa.

I third this.  OK Pop is going to become a much more feasible project within the next 6 months or so, as the Mathews Warehouse project comes online, as the bridge opens, as the next wave of condos gets going, etc.  It will suddenly look less like a risky venture and more like another logical addition to an exploding area.

Also missing from the list: First Street Lofts and its recently announced ground floor economic engines: S&J and Whiskey Business. 

I wonder at what point a new project announcement in Downtown becomes mundane? The growing critical mass is very exciting.

St Pat's party pic, Blue Dome from an FB post.

(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/383488_372340202786940_100000328907311_1187104_885990289_n.jpg)

Pretty quiet.  Guess there was no parking available.

Yep, that downtown...it sure is dead.

What a great skyline shot...that is if you like the neon of the porn shop in the skyline.   :o

I like the neon, just wish it wasn't a porn shop.  I mean seriously, who is still buying porn from actual stores?  The value of that property has to be increasing as the area continues to grow.

silence...

How obscene is that word anyway?

disclaimer:  the above quote is not Recycle Michael's actual quote.  I have edited it to make me laugh inside and perhaps die a little slower.

How many of us have actually been in there?  I have.  It's just sort your average sex shop with the addition of theaters.  What I like about that place is that it is a connection to our dirty past when we wernt subject to the sterile sanitizing of gentrification.  I like that there is something seedy about downtown still, even as the scared to death souties venture downtown.

I don't buy porn, but I have bought other things there.

Maybe if there were a few more neon's downtown, it would be a little less noticeable. As it stands, it is like that weird cousin that is always making a stupid face when you take family pictures. You get them developed and you are just like, "Dang Fred". But he's family, he's just a little embarrassing when everyone else sees him.

Maybe not exactly like that, but you get the drift. It will only be in the background of shots of the blue dome, but it's always there.

There are lots of neon signs in the Blue Dome now

Resembles a Carney hangout.....

  Aaaah reminds you of home.  How sweet.

I don't get the disapproval of the porn store. NIMBY-ism is for the suburbs.

It's not like there's a shortage of land available in the area for bars/restaurants/retail.

I see the porn store and think, as backward as Oklahoma is, at least we're not one of the many states that outlaw various kinds of "devices" of the type sold there.

Besides, what other retail establishments downtown are open even 1/4 as many hours per week as the porn store?

Oklahoma laws probably allow ownership of these devices but make it illegal to use them.

Wouldn't this affect you?  I mean, you being a Dancer Toucher and all...

 ;D

Your idea of a dancer and my idea of a dancer may differ.

 ???

(http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Ryan1966/GayBarDancing.png)

He suggested dancers as "devices".

(http://www.eggshell-robotics.com/pictures/Robot-sex-pole-dancers.png)

  Any word on the new hotel down in the Brady Arts District?  Go through there on occasion when I am downtown to make sure everything is moving along properly.  You know someone has to over see all these various projects and make sure everything is turning out ok and all  8).   But, it seems as thought the hotel project has been stuck in slo-mo for a while?  

I've noticed the same.  I wonder if has anythign to do with the utilities work they were doing below the street...

They began framing the 2nd floor today.   It should fly up in no time now.

Slo Mo:   Brady Park & Cam's Grocery

They were talking to Cameron on the news this morning or yesterday can’t remember, I believe he said Cam’s is looking like late summer.

Looking out my window this morning it appears they are beginning work on this.
They are moving soil on the south and east sides of Ryder.

I see this too.  For some reason I had thought it was going to be the southeast corner of that intersection.  It looks like the development will actually surround the U-Haul.  I'm just excited to see some dirt moving.

Any word on Kanbar Unloading quite a few of its properties? I see them listed with new ones it seems each week...

It appears they are drilling holes for the piers today for the Greenwood Lofts.

1) special historic district that through some wrangling and paper work has the district declared a non-industrial zone and force the city to purchase those properties.

2) TPA and COT build a garage across from the Brady that serves as buffer to the trains. A second lot closer to the ballpark. Privately funded parking garages would work too. The district needs to have an events coordinator to understand the demand for surface parking after all this new density has been added. The Brady District is in serious transition and parking should have been better planned.

These are the items in a new tax package that should be considered. Simple calibration to 2025 under 100 million needed....yesterday.

I saw that.


How does a surface lot service density?  Ideally, there will be no more open lots.  That's what density is.  Parking garage is the way to go.  But a strong residential population and a strong mass trans system in the final answer.

  Aren't there already a lot of parking garages, parking lots and street parking spaces around the Arena/Brady/Greenwood area?

Just this last week they had the Great Steak Cook Off in the Deco District between 5th and 6th streets on Boston and Cincinnatti.  I was there working on the shop in the ground floor of the parking garage building right on the S E corner of 6th and Boston.  I had a ringside seat of the goings on.  People were parking down the street south on Boston and walking past my shop.  Loved that aspect for it made me think that next year when we are open this will definitely be a good day for sales lol.  

But what I also noticed was that the parking garage, right over my head and RIGHT next to the event with $2 parking and the parking attendant sitting out there in his little chair, had max, 4 cars parked in it.  And there were people who were still walking by complaining about parking while I was there with 5 floors of empty parking right over my head!  But we need another parking garage? Within 1 or 2 blocks of the area of the event there are at least 3 other parking garages that I can think of.  Don't know if people were using them either, or if they were open or not, but the opportunity is there.  But then of course there are people who I have heard say they don't like parking garages for they are "scary".  And there are people who don't like busses because they are "nasty".  But there are people who don't like downtown either, but what can ya do?  I am not going to let them turn downtown into suburbia with a smattering of tall buildings surrounded by parking lots,,,, Oh, wait, lol.

  So, whenever people say they want more parking garages my first instinct is "Why aren't we using the ones we already have and if we aren't using them, why would people use these new ones any more?

  Same thing for the Arena.  I see people parking waaay out and walking PAST half empty or almost totally empty parking garages.  Same with the PAC as well, lots of parking garages nearby and people using parking lots or on street parking and walking past the parking garages.

Then there is all that parking right across the tracks from the Brady Arts district.  But oh,  I suppose those are a block too far or something?  What you really want is that for every part of downtown that has a couple new developments go in,  you suddenly need more parking, so we will spend millions and millions and millions on parking garages that people will then walk past while complaining about there not being enough parking downtown.  OOOOR do we want to work on signage and perhaps a downtown circulator going past, or nearby the underutilized abundant parking we already have?


A while back I read one of Bates old articles about parking and transit.  The article had some some very insightful thoughts imho.  He spoke of the importance of "small grain" development downtown and the importance, of all things, Alleys.  As a, less government more free enterprise solution, type person he was obviously against spending tax dollars on transit and was for letting free enterprise take care of any needs.  Needs = opportunity in capitalism.  Notice how as downtown becomes more busy you see the pedicabs more as well?  He also mentions that as the need arises you will likely see small private shuttles or jitneys move into the picture.  At first I was not buying the whole scheme, but the more I think about it, and the more I am downtown and visit other cities with the thought in mind,,, I do not see the need for us to be using our tax dollars to spend money on parking garages, or even mass transit downtown.  But I do proffer a "Compromise" solution, for people seem heck bent on spending some money on something lol, of doing a downtown circulator starting off using small, distinctly painted shuttle busses. Put in dedicated stops with arrival times and maps. Coordinate with and have better signage for, the parking garages we already have.  Advertise the whole effort to start getting people to understand it.  Make some zoning/design changes downtown to encourage pedestrian friendly streets along/nearby the path of the circulator.  I think that would be cheaper and better in the long run to get this underway now, than building more parking garages, and or putting in rail transit.  It would be a great way to take the next step and build more, top notch, very attractive, pedestrian friendly density.
  

There is a ton of surface parking in the Brady. Look at how much is unused and held hostage in front of Spagetti Warehouse. New on street slanted parking spots are going in on Brady St from the Ball Park down to Guthrie Green. The Main Street Parking Garage is never anywhere close to utilized and its only $2 to park there.

Speaking of Guthrie Green, anyone else see this last week?

Which is $2 more than it costs anywhere (that I know) in Suburbia. I support the parking garage concept to eliminate surface parking lots.  That doesn't mean I am jumping at the bit to pay for parking.  If there is something I want to see or do enough to consider pay parking just part of the cost, I will be there.  I don't intend to come to downtown just for the privilege of paying to park.

Yours is not the patronage they desire.  That's not meant to be mean.  That is to point out that many people will pay to park for the extras the area provides.

I went to bar 46 the other night and walked around Brady to Valkyrie.  There's going to be so much more to do in the area.

If I was still someone who does that 5 days a week, then I'd be the one the Brady business owners are looking for.

$2 to park so I can walk around an area made to be walked around in is a small price.  Hell, I tip that for a 1st round of HH beers.


Ooo, and there's sidewalks.  So much nicer than not having sidewalks.

I actually agree on that.  As you noted though, I am not one of the targeted patrons.


More of why I am not a target market.  I don't get into buying rounds since I cannot or will not keep up with the group.  I am a reasonable tip giver but I really don't enjoy paying the price of a 6-pack for just one bottle of beer by the time you consider profit for the establishment, taxes, and tip.


Sidewalks in crowded places are a necessity.  I said so earlier.  We don't need them out here where I live at more than an acre per house.  The denser neighborhoods nearby should have them and some do.
http://goo.gl/maps/VT8bK

I know you and Nathan (from his Robertson Tire visit) will scream heresy but I don't see the need for sidewalks along Memorial this far south.  I will admit that if there were sidewalks between 111th and 131st and Memorial that I could have walked to the Bixby BBQ rather than have mom drive me to 131st to avoid the $10 parking fee.  Sidewalks on both sides of Memorial are a bridge to nowhere.

Honestly, People do not complain because there is nowhere to park.  They complain because there is not enough free parking... which, I agree to a certain extent.  I am not sure what to think about pay parking in the garages on the weekend.  I understand that money has to be made, but if you are trying to grow downtown, don't make the parking prices similar to that which you would find in KC or another area with a big established downtown area.  Am I will to pay $5 dollars for an open air lot with no protection from weather?  Not really.  Am I willing to pay $5 dollars for garage parking? Probably.  But 2 or 3 is pretty reasonable (which is why I like what they did with the Main Street Garage by Brady.) 

I have seldom paid for parking at nights or weekends downtown. Even Mayfest. I hate it that open lots have a guy in a chair collecting money for a poorly maintained, unsecure, half filled lot that would have been empty. 

I once paid to use the garage across from the arena to see a concert because I didn't want to walk that night. Otherwise there is plenty of street parking downtown.

Harumph

Don't you love American Parking

I've noticed today that they are moving the KOTV satellite farm from the Blue Dome area across from Fassler Hall to the far north end of the Brady behind their new studio by the new antenna tower they build.  The old location would be prime real estate for some infill.  Hopefully someone builds something up to the street on that lot.  Has KOTV offered to sell that location?

What is Chainera Café? It was mentioned in a recent TW article about new/upcoming Brady District businesses. A google search yields nothing.

Chimera Cafe?

Interesting (and long) article from Sunday's Tulsa World business section on the two largest property owners in the Brady District.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=46&articleid=20120909_46_E1_CUTLIN476548

Chimera cafe is a new breakfast and lunch spot open up across from the tavern.  My friends jack and rob are behind it.  They should do very well.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKw31IQfGhY&feature=share&list=UUUTnn--dLLgeqjbOQhrQwXQ[/youtube]

"Stuff!"

Thank you Mister Mayor.

Ugh..why is there a "video specialist" couldn't they just do this for free with press releases and working with the already paid local news people? I wouldn't think that this position is one that is exactly "needed" other than its convenient...the news stations beg for stuff to report on...also wow...talk about not alot of thought into talking about "stuff"....

Ick. I feel dirty just watching that. Couldn't the video specialist (highly paid, I'm sure) make the propaganda feel a little less overpowering?

  Lots of stuff.  Lots of stuff going on.  New bridge, will move people from here to the stuff over there.

The guy is an intellectual powerhouse thats for sure.

Gives me tourettes.

I'm still howling five minutes later.

Thank you!!!

The problem isn't the video specialist, the problem is that our Mayor is too dumb to write copy ahead of time and takes a good 60 seconds and two questions to elaborate on downtown development beyond "stuff." Unless this was meant to be submitted to the Onion?

Yes, the mayor has a talent for looking like a moron. But a video specialist with a TV news background should be able to steer it to look more like something resembling a TV news segment than a bad public access cable segment. "Mayor, you are right!"

Saw Rib Crib has their 'Coming Soon' sign in the window.

I've not been in the area in a while.  How's the property look?

Unchanged, other than the MET signs in the window are no longer there.

Same with First St lofts. The ground floor looks good thanks to Whiskey Business and S&J...but nothing has changed upstairs.

Will the Rib Crib be takeout only or are they planning to have seating?

You've not managed to shock me about the First St Lofts.

This is full restaurant AFAIK...this building is larger than you think.

Would the Rib Crib area be the old piano bar and pool/bar areas?

Rib Crib will be the white building across the street from the building you are describing, which is now Enso and another couple of music venues.

It's the old MET building.

Rib Crib is going into the building on the Southeast corner at 15th and Detroit. I think you are referring to the building on the Southeast corner where Enzo and Electric Circus are currently located.

What happened to the Rib Crib going in next to McNellie's,  they used to have a sign on that property, the one with the major renovations going on.

This is what happens when 4 BBQ places attempt to open downtown.  We get our locations mixed up.

15th and Detroit?

1st and Detroit, the one next to McNellie's is/was Albert G's

This was my old building. It is 4,000 square feet.

I have been assured that the Rib Crib will be open before baseball season starts.

The BBQ place planned just east of McNellie's is planned to be an Albert G's.

I saw BC and RC will be entering the too much chew district soon....

1st and Detroit. I cannot explain why my keyboard put 15th.

I couldn't remember if anyone'd mentioned it.

Are there any known plans for the old KOTV property in Blue Dome now that they're moving to the new location in Brady?

I noticed that new "DECO DISTRICT" markers have been installed in down town. One is at ONEOK plaza accross from the Mayo Hotel on 5th and Cheyenne.

Those are places to chain your bike I believe that double as signage.

great idea. There is already a bike rack in front of Topeka just a few feet away.

3 coffeehouses to open in downtown area in the coming month

http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/article.aspx?subjectid=39&articleid=20121213_39_WK11_CUTLIN738695 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/article.aspx?subjectid=39&articleid=20121213_39_WK11_CUTLIN738695)


(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2012/20121213_WK_coffee_1213.jpg)

The Pheonix bagels are so good... I recommend the Joy Luck Club on an Everything Bagel.

What improvements, services and amenities do you think would make downtown Tulsa more attractive and vibrant?

http://www.feedbacktulsa.org/portals/121/Forum_355/Issue_1138?a=133 (http://www.feedbacktulsa.org/portals/121/Forum_355/Issue_1138?a=133)

That is such an awesome location for him. 

Wait... KOTV moved?  I wouldn't have guessed it...

Has the new Albert G's opened yet?

What I heard some of the staff say during the move is that it has been purchased, but they are not disclosing the name of the buyer.

This weekend downtown was packed with people all day Saturday and Sunday. It was so wierd, it felt like I was in some other city.

I went to Glacier Confections on Saturday afternoon and there was a line running out the door. Whiskey Business was also packed.

I think its time for additional retail in downtown.

I thought the same thing Friday evening, about being in another city. People dining on the indoor/outdoor space at Laffa (after 9pm, no less), people walking everywhere, even in parts of downtown more than a block or two from bars/restaurants. It was great.

Glacier Confection is great. They've greatly expanded their hours since they first opened. They're open a whole bunch of evenings now.

Report: Downtown properties bought since 1999 and sold since 2008 show increase in value

(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2013/20130321_downtownaerial3333321.jpg)

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20130321_11_0_Poeteo389634 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20130321_11_0_Poeteo389634)


So I guess this means the ballpark assessment didn't kill everything.

Maybe the TDA is making it really hard to purchase/sell DT properties to help drive the increase.

Boy if Tulsa has a bad side. That picture is it.  :-[

Maybe they're attempting to show where the next solid round of development should go.

Downtown Tulsa's soft underbelly?

More like its Kardashian sized assphalt parking lots......

The dormant foliage and long shadows aren't helping.

A much more flattering picture for an article about an improving downtown would have been from the north looking south in order to show the new development.

The folks in Omaha probably don't know that.

 That is one of the startling things about our skyline, and highrise development around town in general.  Looks like we stopped growing in the 80's.   Just got back from Nashville and Franklin TN yesterday from doing a big project there.  Didn't get to go into downtown Nashville but driving between the two cities, all along the highway was new building after new building and of course Franklin (where my job actually was) was growing leaps and bounds.  Came back here and the difference was startling.  Even our new building downtown is dull and looks like something from the 80's?  I am all for "context sensitive" construction in certain areas, but come on lol. At least the Arena and City Hall add some new character downtown.

Oh, and here is a new video made by the Mayor and City Communications Dept.  that is supposed to be passed along. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt8no0s5lSM&feature=youtube 

Franklin has become a new 'white flight' zone it appears.  Lots of development going on around that whole south of town area.  The new 840 loop really helped it a lot...you don't have to drive through Nashville and that interstate mess any more!!  (I have driven the road from Tulsa to Nashville/Knoxville area 5 times since Thanksgiving).  Just to the east is a Nissan car factory(Smyrna area) and is GM still making Equinox in Spring Hill??

That whole 840 corridor is just amazing at how fast stuff is going up!  I saw new things in February that weren't even started in November....

 Franklins downtown was amazing.  Bustling with young professionals and lots of boutique shops and restaurants.  Was talking to someone and from the sound of it the zoning requirements sounded stricter than even the Form Based codes we were/are trying to get in the Pearl District.  But you could definitely see how that kind of zoning can create an extremely desirable environment.  Course we see it work all over the country but can't seem to make any changes here. 

Btw, the reason I was there was because the company that I have worked for over the years here in Tulsa... moved there, and took a lot of their employees with them cause they liked the lifestyle there as well.   

Artist. In that video it was mentioned that 500 crimes happen around the IDL every year. That sounds a little high to me.

I spent some time in Nashville last summer and came away impressed with the city – it  has a lot going on other than just kitschy country music tourism.  It was interesting, however, on the drive in from the airport, just outside of downtown heading towards Vanderbilt, we passed by a giant hole in the ground that looked like an abandoned quarry.  I asked my driver about it, he told me it was an excavation for a large condo project that went bust a few years earlier.  Then he detoured and showed me a series of new high rise condos (one of which Taylor Swift has the penthouse on the top two floors) and told me each of these projects had gone through at least one bankruptcy before getting completed.  Nashville's three primary industries – publishing (music and non-music), healthcare and music/entertainment – are all booming.  

Although a lot of the parts are in place, Tulsa is still missing that catalyst industry to take us from slow growth to boom town.

I don't think we need to chase industry, I think we need to have a city that attracts industry.

Making life in Tulsa fun for the employees would help.

It's never enough, Townie. Take a look inside....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrQoyvV1Hfk[/youtube]

It's not about just having fun. It's the culture, education level, and livability.

Define crime

I had nothing to do with the video.  Thought it was very poorly made with very little attention to detail.  Did not imho make downtown and Tulsa look very attractive.  And is the second time I believe I have heard the mayor mention that Tulsa's downtown has had something that no other city has had during the recession... construction (or something to that effect).  Which is blatantly false. There were more highrises started and going up during the recession in NYC alone than have ever been built in all of Tulsa's history, Salt Lake City has seen beaucoup construction in it's core, heck OKC has the Devon Tower, etc. It's like they are trying to make Tulsa look good by saying things that are obviously not true and then on top of it taking the great assets we do have and either not playing them up or making them look downright shabby.  Most of the shots of and in downtown are horrible. Pan over the arena, not towards the buildings downtown but towards a sea of parking lots. Mention the addition to a church, and rather than show off it's beautiful, towering, gothic stone architecture, instead show a close up of it's sign.  Show almost empty streets, sidewalks, and parks ( I can almost hear the city employees that I am guessing made this say "heck I am not wasting my lunch time filming this video" lunchtime, when there would be people walking around downtown.  Show a ribbon cutting and band walking over the new bridge (not that you could tell if it was a bridge if you didn't know better) and again, no buildings in the background making downtown and this bridge look as though it might as well be in the middle of the Arizona desert, OOOOOH! impressive!.  And on and on.  I was like "And they are proud of this? and think it put's Tulsa in a good light? and want us to pass it around?".   If some high school students from the 80's had done this, I apologize, it would rank a B- ( or C due to the inaccuracies), but if this was a city attempt by paid adults....

.....but building a WalMart or a stadium there would have ruined the neighborhood's fragile eco-system.   /sarcasm

If the option for downtown is surface parking or a Wal-Mart...
I'll take the surface parking

Same thing.

That statement is definitely a sign of youth, and no real knowledge about the history of the area.  We have ALWAYS been a boom town from a variety of several different industries.  Think oil, gas, aviation, computers (Telex), call centers, fast food (don't giggle - that's multi-tens of billions per year nationwide), appliances, paper goods, music, movies, agriculture (cattle, wheat, soybeans, marijuana), one of the larger shipping ports in the country.  Over many, many decades!

We have an amazingly diverse economy here - especially for our size relative to other states with 10 times our population!  And while we definitely have issues, they certainly don't "feel" like they are as bad as those other places!  Geez, people - we could be Texas for crying out loud!!  Oooppssss...sorry...Baja Oklahoma!!  Or California!!!

Occasionally, we have been forward looking and done very well planning for the future - Tulsa's water supplies, Port of Catoosa.

What I hear way too often is kind of like the boss who says, "Yeah...you accomplished that list of 8 important things by yesterday morning, but what have you done for me lately....?"  Slower, steady growth has shown to be better for most Oklahoman's than the boom/bust cycle oil has done over and over....

So what would that catalyst be?  That gives us the "next big thing"...??  Keeping in mind that while we have plenty of natural gas to "fuel" that next big thing - at least until it is all shipped overseas - we are water constrained right now.  Probably have been for several years and just didn't understand/realize.  So whatever it is had better work "dry".... ie no more water parks!


Sidebar reference;
Our population was relatively stable from 1930 to 1970 in the 2.5 million range (+/-).  Since then, we have increased to about 3.8 million in the last 40 years....  Has your lifestyle increased proportionately in the last 40 years?  Just having "more" economic activity, as in attracting "more" industry to the state doesn't necessarily mean better....  (Oklahoma's gross domestic product per capita was $35,480 in 2010, which was ranked 40th among the states.  Median personal income 2010, $23,770)

3/4 down the page... population for last 100 years...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma

A lot of places will "pick an industry, or two or three" and then emphasize those, work to grow them, invest in them, etc.  I am guessing we do that but either do not have good city PR that lets the public know of it's success, or we haven't had much success.  I hear more about the OKC medical district/industry they have been working to grow than say successes in us growing, say, our aviation industry as an example.  

But perhaps your right in that we have chosen a super diversified approach, in which case I would expect to hear more about that and hopefully higher income job growth.

And that's one of the things that interests me and that I run into as an artist, what appears to be a lack of people who can afford to buy art as compared to our competitor cities lol. Yesterday was driving downtown past TCC to my shop and saw a young artist carrying one of those large artist portfolios.  My first thought was, that if I were to talk to this artist they would likely mention something about moving to another city where they could sell their art or work for a company that needed an artist (advertising/promotions, web design, product design, window design, etc. etc. etc.).  Artists can definitely be, via multiple ways, the "canary in the mine" when it comes to where your income levels stand or are going.

I guess what's frustrating right now if I get down to it is... Where is Tulsa going?

Am I missing it? Am I missing the information thats being put out there that lets us know that things are moving along, and how they are doing so?  Or is this administration or city not putting that info out there, because the news isn't all that good?  I also like to hear when things aren't going well for hopefully that acts as a rallying cry to motivate us to try new things.  But not hearing that either.  It's like as a city we are kind of sitting here with mediocre to no aspirations and direction, and anyone with half a brain can look around and tell you where that likely gets you.  

  

No matter how inapplicable, I always love being called young.

Yes, I'm a well aware of Tulsa's history and that busts always follow the booms.  My problem is we keep having the busts without the upside benefits of the booms.  Tulsa has tried to diversify its economy since the oil bust in the early 1980s, but the reality is this is still an energy dominated economy.  Much of our growth the past few years is energy driven.  Even much of our manufacturing is related to and connected with the exploration, production or shipping of petroleum products.

Worse, our diversification efforts have focused on industries that, while still present in Tulsa, have not lived up to the promise.  Aviation – does anyone really believe AA or Spirit hold great promise for future expansion in Tulsa?  We are fighting a constant battle just to hold on to what we've got and have steadily leaked aviation jobs for the past decade.  Telecommunications once held great promise with WorldCom and Williams Communications' hiring and spending binges.  That did not turn out so well.  Is anyone seriously arguing that call centers are our "boom" industry that will be a catalyst for widespread population and economic growth?

Tulsa is growing, but ever so slowly.  For every Cimarex success story , we seem to have a WCG/Dollar Thrifty/SemGroup set back.  We have dozens of threads going on this site discussing all the things we want to see happen in Tulsa.  Those things won't happen unless we are not only actually growing, but perceived by outsiders as a dynamic and growing place.  My point about a catalyst industry is that we need something to kick start us and really move the needle. 

We have made great strides over the past 10 years to position Tulsa to be more attractive and to grow.  What's missing now is the actual growth.

You saw the income numbers I mentioned...goes to the basic philosophy I have mentioned many times...over generalized somewhat, but following a trend... to Democrat's low wages are the problem, to Republicans, low wages are the answer.  Especially in the last 20 to 30 years, specific actions have been taken to keep Oklahoma less educated, therefore less "valuable", therefore worth less pay.  Right to Work.  Keeping education funding lower than not just surrounding states, but nationwide.

We are 40th.  Not the bottom,....but close.

AA and Spirit - not now.  Due to causes WAY outside our control.  Incompetent management in the case of AA, due to Republican enabled rewards for that incompetence (tax deductible large bonuses and paychecks for incompetent management).  Not sure what is going on with Spirit...haven't got any good contacts there lately. 

What you are talking about are all topics that I have discussed related to tax treatments - and the way we just go with the stupid stuff - cut income taxes and give companies lots of tax money to come here for a while.  We could have some innovative treatments of merger and buyout events that would provide incentive to go another direction.  No coercion - it's all carrot!

And why don't we enjoy the trip while we are on that path - to figuring out how to "grow"....if you always need the "fix" of the "next big thing" then you are unlikely to ever be happy.  How is "moving the needle" going to make things that much better - that is "get rich quick" scheming...?  We have increased 55% in 40 years.  Is your life better or worse than it was in the 70's overall?  Did more volume in your house make it more enjoyable?  It DID make the realtor, the builder and the tax man all much happier.

A good traveler has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving.
   Lao Tzu  (570 – 490 B.C.)


As for positioning not making a difference - well, as we have discussed, if we didn't keep shooting ourselves in the feet - both of them - as a state, maybe more of that would happen.  But do you really want the population to double with a bunch more Yankees and miscellaneous left and right coasters??  Look what is has done to us lately...

I'm not sure we have chosen diversification - certainly not with any conscious intent - but we do have some variety.

As for buying art, well you have a painting in your shop that you have made prints of that SWMBO and I absolutely love!!  And we are gonna come buy one sometime soon.  But it all goes back to the money thing...the median income here just doesn't leave much slack.  Our 47%ers probably number much more than 47%!  I can afford a print.  Would love to have that original, but no way I will ever get that kind of money.  And people like guido are probably doing all they can already.  Rock and a hard spot....

Yee-haw.  Google map shows this to be the old Flytrap, which I considered a criminally underused venue.

Cool! Maybe build a sky bridge from Woody's to the dance hall.

Is indeed the old fly trap,

Please tell me that they're going to keep the George Clinton mural.

Two new businesses are opening in the two story on the west side of the street across from Sound Pony.

on the left is a martini bar, and on the right is a salon. It looks like a gallery might be going in on the second floor.

(https://cbks3.google.com/cbk?output=thumbnail&cb_client=maps_sv&thumb=2&thumbfov=120&ll=36.160473,-95.994823&yaw=204.0&thumbpegman=1&w=300&h=118)

Downtown Tulsa’s East Village District Ready for Growth

http://www.gtrnews.com/greater-tulsa-reporter/12242/downtown-tulsa-s-east-village-district-ready-for-growth (http://www.gtrnews.com/greater-tulsa-reporter/12242/downtown-tulsa-s-east-village-district-ready-for-growth)

I think the East village is the perfect spot for retail that is missing from Downtown such as home goods, pet supply, clothing (yes downtown has lots of niche clothing shops) for the masses, movies, art supply, etc. My hope is that any new construction is urban with smart parking.

So the only active project is the office building at 1st & Greenwood.  What is the status of the proposed residential Hartford Commons and Urban 8?  And where is the "urban park" slated to go?  What about All Souls at 6th & Frankfort?

I like the organic growth of this area but there are some big holes to fill, notably at 2nd & Elgin.  I still think Elgin should remain the main street with the bulk of new retail/restaurants along with parts of 1st and 2nd, and 3rd around Kenosha while the other streets are more residential with nicer sidewalks/street trees. 

Great idea.

There is a new hole to fill after the demolition(s) that is underway on the south side of Kenosha between 3rd & 4th.

Crap?!

This building on the east side of the street?
(https://cbks1.google.com/cbk?output=thumbnail&cb_client=maps_sv&thumb=2&thumbfov=120&ll=36.156146,-95.982207&yaw=36.7&thumbpegman=1&w=300&h=118)

Correct.  By "south," I meant "east."    ;)  It is the white painted brick building on the right side of the photo image you linked all the way to 4th street.

East End just needs to be totally redone with high rise condos/apartments besides a few small areas like the Bend and Greenwood.

Is there a big demand for high rise condos downtown?

Probably not highrises, but there is a demand for urban 3-4 story apartments. 

I noticed that the lot that will house Hartford Commons has some sort of activity going on.

Where on the lot, CP?

I saw this building where I was told 24 apartments will be available: Harringtons.

I can't get a picture to appear.... 36.148837,-95.988878

I moved here because I saw downtown developing.  In the future I would like one of those condos.

Northwest corner of the lot, Greenwood and 2nd east of Legends.

Here is the thread on Harringtons Lofts: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=20202.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=20202.0)

Cool.  That is good.  I do know that there is no sanitary sewer access to that site, so getting that is step one.

Looks like they put a construction trailer at Bill White's

That's really good news.

Also, new sign up for Urban 8! On site at 3rd and greenwood ::)

How can a building not have any SS?  When it was men's store did they use buckets?

The interior is getting plumbed so you can see the layout on the first floor.  Narrow. I hope they don't drop the ceilings on the first floor too much.

The site that pfox was referring to is the one at 3rd and Greenwood which is currently an empty city block but will eventually house:
Urban 8: eight modern style brownstone type condos
Hartford Commons: 147 low/mid priced apartments
A park or green space for the new tenants.

What is going on the site where Thorco Valve currently is just west of U-Haul and south of the ballpark?  I can't keep all this development straight.

I never thought I'd hear someone say that about downtown if you'd have asked me 15 years ago.

Is there work going on there?

Is that one of the hotels?

Thorco is moving out to an industrial park near Pine & Mingo around the first of the year due to redevelopment of the property.  It looks like we will be removing and installing their steam generator and test system they use to certify pressure relief valves. One of the Thorco guys I talked to said he thought the metal sided buildings will be razed but the brick part may be re-purposed.  I'm hoping pfox or someone else will see this post and fill us in a little better.

Lets see what the fox says.

Wa-wa-way-do Wub-wid-bid-dum-way-do Wa-wa-way-do

Bay-budabud-dum-bam

Mama-dum-day-do

Abay-ba-da bum-bum bay-do

First time I heard that song was at my daughter's wedding reception Saturday night.  That's a random song.

Re the Thorco Site, I think this thread has the answers you seek: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=20229.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=20229.0)

Thorco is between Elgin & Frankfort.  The Patel hotel is going between Detroit & Elgin.

This one:

(https://cbks0.google.com/cbk?output=thumbnail&cb_client=maps_sv&thumb=2&thumbfov=120&ll=36.158970,-95.988424&yaw=50.1&thumbpegman=1&w=300&h=118)


Great! Can't wait to hear the news

Urban 8 broke ground this morning.

Downtown Condo Project Officially Underway

http://kwgs.com/post/downtown-condo-project-officially-underway (http://kwgs.com/post/downtown-condo-project-officially-underway)

If Yvonne Hovell doesn’t ring a bell she is either the owner or former owner of East Tulsa Dodge.  Great news!

  While I count our blessings for every new housing development that goes into downtown, is it just me or is it a little sad that for Tulsa, 8 units is a big enough deal for there to be a groundbreaking ceremony replete with "local dignitaries" and the press? 

Artist. The Seven unit development in Downtown Broken Arrow also was newsworthy a few weeks back. I thought the exact thing that you did.

It's noteworthy that these are for sale condos and not apartments like the other recent downtown residential projects.  And there aren't that many new projects so I guess we have to celebrate progress.

Former owner. Her name has been on downtown housing proposals pretty much since then.

From what I can tell these are the current projects under construction downtown, with several others starting soon:

- YMCA Lofts at 6th & Denver - 82 rental units with retail space on Denver
- Vandever Lofts at 5th & Main - 40 rental units with retail space on 5th
- Harrington Lofts at 8th & Main - 24 rental units
- Urban 8 at 3rd & Greenwood - 8 for sale units
- 100 Boulder Townhomes at 1st & Boulder - 18 for sale units
- Best Western at 6th & Houston - 82 rooms
- Bill White Chevrolet apartments at 4th & Elgin - 53 rental units
- $48 million renovation of the Central Library
- TCC Physical Therapy Clinic at 9th & Cincinnati

Starting this summer/fall
- Holiday Inn Express at Cincinnati & Archer - 110 rooms
- Hampton Inn at 3rd & Cheyenne - 120 rooms
- Hilton Garden Inn at 2nd & Cheyenne - 134 rooms
- East Village Phase I (the Brickhugger project at 1st & Greenwood) - 30 units

Proposed for 2015
- Brady Flats at Archer & Boston - 61 rental units
- Hotel in the Parker Drilling Building at 3rd & Main
- Hartford Commons at 2nd & Hartford - 162 units
- Wil Wilkin's hotel/office development at Archer & Elgin by the ballpark
- 111 W 5th at 5th & Boulder - 90 rental units
- GreenArch Phase II at Archer & Greenwood - 70 units

I'm sure I missed some so please correct my list.  Seems like we will be covered by new hotel rooms and rental units.  It would be nice to see more new construction residential both rental and for sale and office developments which have cooled down even though Class A vacancy is fairly low in downtown. 

Tax Incentives Could Help Projects at Historic Buildings Downtown

http://kwgs.com/post/tax-incentives-could-help-projects-historic-buildings-downtown (http://kwgs.com/post/tax-incentives-could-help-projects-historic-buildings-downtown)

(http://kwgs.com/sites/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201405/2w6thst.JPG)

Thats a pretty good idea.  The city gets the same amount of money for 6 years and they have incentive to do the improvements.  Which will result in more revenue in 6 years.

This morning it looked like construction fencing was going up on N.E. corner lot at 1st & Greenwood.  Which project is that supposed to be?

Hogan Assessments HQ
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=20096.0
http://www.tulsaworld.com/archives/firm-offers-million-for-downtown-lot/article_4ecc545a-dd51-5428-b876-bb8f17900935.html

Pics here:
http://www.selserschaefer.com/our-work/office/hogan-assessments/

Several nice design elements.  Like how they have the brick on the Greenwood facing side to honor that context, and like the glass to allow a sense of interest on the other street side.

However have a few concerns.

1.  Not any awnings to protect pedestrians from sun or rain on brick side.

2.  Curious as to why the choice for having plantings right next to the building especially on the brick side.  Narrow strip will forever be in need of keep up during all seasons (cigarette butts pulled out of it, dead plants replaced, etc., and will likely look ratty in time.  Perhaps it's the architects attempt to add interest to a rather boring street side presence rendering leaving the client with a bother over time.  Plus it negates the prospect of adding an awning on that side for pedestrians, at least until the planting area is filled in with gravel or cement.

3.  Looks like most of the employees and guests will enter from the back thus again negating the addition of more lively street life to the area.  Guess they wouldn't even want the employees and guests to have to walk past that pedestrian unfriendly wall to an entrance?

The vacant brick building on the other corner would make a great restaurant space adding more people to the area with a covered patio at the corner.  Once phase 2 of GreenArch across the tracks and the Brickhugger project at the southeast corner are built it will feel like a whole new area.

The metal building on the SE corner of Elgin and Archer was torn down this morning.  I think that was the Thorco building?

(http://i.imgur.com/KKrGZZm.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/KKrGZZm.jpg)

That's good news:
(http://promisehotels.com/files/cache/57d758365521f0fc10ae3e1b1e0459ab_f103.jpg)

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/breaking-news/new-hotel-planned-for-downtown-tulsa/ndmMj/

No, that's Detroit and Archer, not Elgin and Archer. Different block, right across the street from OneOK field's Oil Derrick entrance.

This?

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.158968,-95.988424,3a,75y,110.77h,78.71t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1swRKyybqNKl74NhPeX-DzXQ!2e0!5s2011-07 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.158968,-95.988424,3a,75y,110.77h,78.71t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1swRKyybqNKl74NhPeX-DzXQ!2e0!5s2011-07)

The hotel's going across from New Medio

Yep

So what is going in on that block, anyone know?

The old tire shop building where the new Holiday Inn is going still stands.  I didn't even know there were plans for the building on Elgin.  It's a great location.  It seems just last season you could hear activity going on in that building.  Are there any plans for that spot?  There are still so many undeveloped buildings and lots around the stadium.  Would be nice to see an influx of construction in that area.

Surrounding the stadium with buildings on the south and west sides would make an already cool atmosphere in there even better.  ONEOK is such a great minor league ballpark, having a couple more restaurants and some shops around it would be awesome.

http://www.newson6.com/story/25960738/developers-take-advantage-of-tax-breaks-continue-downtown-growth (http://www.newson6.com/story/25960738/developers-take-advantage-of-tax-breaks-continue-downtown-growth)

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/25960738_BG2.jpg)

Are there any drawings of what the Bill White building will look like after renovation?

A parking lot.
 
 ;D

I have been curious about that too, did a little searching, but haven't found anything.

Based on the fresh coat of blue paint the main structure recently received (and new windows on the upper floor), it looks like that part of the development it is going to look the same as now.

I drive by pretty much every workday and it is difficult to picture how this development will turn out.  I applaud their effort, but that appears to be a tough space to make usable as apartments.  That said, including "5 restaurants" may answer some questions.

Looks like dirt work has started on the Urban 8 lots.

From their FB page:


(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10517538_931475186879512_1173873727135322527_n.jpg)

This development up and going and the Bill White one finishing up is really going to make a difference for the East End.  Right now there is still just too much empty and run down to have that area be recognizable as "the next up and coming big thing for downtown". But these two and then people visioning the other developments that are planned to go in, will definitely turn the tide with that and help those developers "without much vision" see the potential.  

The east side of downtown really has the potential to become that pedestrian friendly "Urban neighborhood" type are that so many of us long for Tulsa to have. I would really like to see a lot of pedestrian friendly residential go in there to have that area feed into the core of downtown (aka by my shop lol) and other areas for work, dining and shopping. Course if we ever develop a retail corridor somewhere downtown that is where I would like my current shop and future ones to go.

Some day I would like to have either a multi-story department store type place, thats just as much an interesting and fun attraction as it is a place to shop, and or multiple fun shops of different types all up and down one street. Just depends on how downtown develops and how creative and hard working I can be to make it happen.  I will either succeed or die trying lol.  If this Christmas is good enough, I would really like to branch off part of my current shop and open another store next year or the year after at the latest.  I would love to do an imaginative and fun toy-store with different themed areas, a really unique bookstore, a retro inspired gift shop, a mens store, a women's store, a flashy art deco themed decor place also having fun gifts, all as different shops or as one multi-floor department store (like Harrods but even more over the top and entertaining).  Downtown should have the best and most creative of everything.  

There has been some activity in the east end in the last two years. Remember that Hodges Bend is less than two years old. Guru Stu is rehabbing a row of brick buildings on third street right accross from Urban 8 and there is some new retail and new lofts near Lansing. The old Living Arts building has something going on too.

I guess this goes here too.  Take it for what its worth.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/realestate/work-starting-again-on-downtown-first-street-lofts/article_28172494-5c1c-539c-ac17-50a030758b0d.html

What do you think it's worth?

I'll believe that the lofts will be complete when they are complete and not a second sooner.

When the people move in and realize the plumbing's not actually connected to anything?

It's good to see Sager has reactivated his PR firm (a/k/a The Tulsa World).  I believe this project will eventurally be completed, I just don't know the decade in which that will happen.

2007. What were you doing in 2007? It took a lot less time to build this hotel in what......1910?

Probably not worth the electrons required to display it.
 
 :D

Apparently it is a hotel, but not the one we were thinking of.

This article (http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/food/new-brewpub-across-from-oneok-field-planned-to-open-next/article_cb9e6b4d-3e95-5bf0-beb3-fb78e054a068.html) mentions "TownePlace Suites on Elgin Avenue on the southwest corner from the ballpark", but that's the first time I've heard about it.

City Opens Applications for Downtown Development Loans

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/city-opens-applications-downtown-development-loans (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/city-opens-applications-downtown-development-loans)


C'mon Sager...getcha some.

Come on Enterprise, Tulsa Club, or ARCO.

Won't be Tulsa Club. Building has just recently been listed for sale again. Looks like the previous deal has fallen through. I HIGHLY doubt the current owner wants to do the project themselves, looks like they're just trying to hold out for $$ as downtown property values rise.

Interesting to note. There is as many residential units scheduled to deliver by 2016 (around 700-800 if all goes as planned) as there has been delivered since the BOK Center opened.

Another interesting fact, is that the Bill White Chevy redevelopment is attaining rents close to $2.00/sq. ft. which is important sign that high rise construction might be on the horizon. $2.00/sq. ft. is typically where you see the point that 5 or more story construction becomes feasible.

http://m.newson6.com/Story.aspx?story=28088686&catId=112042 (http://m.newson6.com/Story.aspx?story=28088686&catId=112042)

Great to see so many hotels in the works.