The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Great article on the poor planning, antiquated thinking, broken promises and generally suck that is our city planning... Focusing on the "near north side" from Greenwood to stovepipe hill.

Walkable mixed use neighborhoods.  A trolley than ran every 7 minutes.  A density of mall business.  50 years ago we had what we want... And we planned to destroy it for something better (just like Bells!).
http://thislandpress.com/06/18/2014/steps-to-nowhere/?read=complete

Long, but worth the read.

This Land is such a positive beacon for Tulsa’s pride.   8)

Granted Tulsa has had some really myopic leadership, but I’m tired of the constant crap on what Tulsa isn’t instead of focusing on what it is from TLP.

If they want to crap on Tulsa, they should move to Houston and join Davazz. 

This Machine Whines A Lot

Is that it's Native American name?  Like Dances With Wolves or Stands With A Fist?

Well played...

Yeah....reality IS such a b$tch!!  Just gotta hate when it is brought up!!


That is going on now in Broken Arrow old town.

Past is prologue.

Conan, I don't care much for the publication, likely for the same reasons you have, but our history is the only way institutions can learn from their errors and the flawed processes that created them. I was in my teens when the area north of downtown was ravaged and had no voice. As an adult I am surprised at how blind and voiceless the population was at that time. We were an oligarchy.

My mantra for a long, long time....


I don't read it very often, but am curious why you and Conan don't care for the mag?  (I don't really like it or not like it - no opinion on that either way.) 


We still are an oligarchy.  Nothing has changed in 30 years....little has changed in 60 years in that respect.  (Little Dewby versus Big Dewby type changes...)

You can be a product of your past or a victim of your past.  TLP seems to play the victim card more than I care for.

As to the article posted above, Bates is a very gifted talent and his research is usually impeccable. 

I wouldn't narrow it to an either or decision, but it seems to me that whether you're a product of the past or a victim, you need to know the details of the past.

I don't care for it because its too ....yellow dog? The sensationalism they seem to crave resulted in poor results in the Brady District episode. If they want to be agents for change, they need to make sure the change they foment is legitimate, insightful and progressive (progressive in a non political way) rather than self-serving. Change for change sake is immature.

All that said, I do appreciate a different voice in the city other than paid for programming.

Perhaps. The oligarchy has been bruised a bit by a non partisan council and the overt segmentation of the city. Developers, oil, religion, and race have always, and will always, determine our fate.

I kind of liked big Dewby. Liberal by todays standards.

I see what you did there.

You make me look more clever than I am. Just saw the play on words! Very funny.

H....did you mean to double entendre with that Dewbie reference?

The fate of this land depresses me.  I'm almost to a point where I can't talk about it anymore.  Considering I drive by it every day on my home from the office its frustrating to say the least.

Do I ever do mean anything simple when it can be complex?  Absolutely yes I meant it.

Would like to get to triple entendre if I could....just not quite that bright yet...

I guess it could almost get there - Dewbie for Dewey, the guy that is outdoors gathering dew overnight... and the obvious, but that really should have been spelled Doobie....oh, well, can't always get what ya want....  (catch that reference?)

That's good....nested levels of meaning...

If he can hold on a few years, the product will be regarded as an innovator. Assuming a revolution of neckbeards doesn't burn the building down. I read in PC mag a poll that indicated increasing distrust and disfavor with the internet and pc's in general. Too early to see a trend other than older generations not embracing technology. But still, lots of youngers who are dropping the internet as fast as they did newspapers and periodicals. Once tablets are cheap, plentiful and easy to use, newspapers and periodicals may re-emerge. This period of undocumented rumor reported as news, politics as "fact", anonymous character assassination and hideous lack of regard for history may subside. 

This cycle is particularly distressing as the hordes seem to be obsessed with all things conservative. Ted Cruz??? Jeez. Its like watching OU/OSU fans emerge when the programs are successful.

Probably won't subside - that's why Rupert bought the Wall Street Journal....


Let's see if the RWRE get as worked up about where Cruz was born - since he really was NOT born in the US, so is NOT a natural born citizen.... for everyone else in the extremist right, that means he is not eligible to be President - by definition.

He is secretly trying to bring Cuban Communism to the US!!!

Not only that, but they ALWAYS crap on Oklahoma State University at any chance. What was once, and sometimes still is, a very good publication, just rubs me the wrong way at times. Be proactive, not reactive.

Even broadcast media isn’t entirely honest anymore.  You need to read or listen to several accounts of anything which has happened politically to get to the truth.  There’s very little integrity left in journalism.  It’s not near like it used to be when you and I were a part of it, Aqua.

Agreed. These are unhappy times for those who seek truth and facts. Broadcast is entertainment. At least print leaves behind a hard copy that can be fact checked and bias proofed.

I know it won't happen for awhile but so want to think that the continued development of downtown, specifically the Brady, will provide the impetus for developing this site.  It would take convincing the city that the land west of MLK should be returned to a residential community while OSU would still have the land to the west for its future expansion.  This could be one of the first large-scale New Urbanism redevelopments in the city if done right.  Of course I'm a young optimist but just what I've seen happen downtown in the past 10 years has been pretty incredible and this seems to be the next stone to fall.

It needs to be residential, agreed. But I think the college needs to build housing there to kick start a residential boom. Property values are still fairly depressed in Brady Heights so it's hard for new residential construction to get a toe hold right now. Personally I'm a huge fan of Brady Heights, I often go through and admire the housing stock, but I think lots of Tulsans hold a mistaken negative view of the area.

I don't think you can rely on OSU to build the housing themselves, but rather zone the mostly empty area north of I-244, east of Boulder and south of John Hope Franklin to higher density residential that would be for apartments targeting both downtown professionals and OSU students.  The land north of John Hope Franklin and west of MLK would be single family residential where development would more closely resemble what used to be there and the adjacent Brady Heights neighborhood.  OSU would have everything on its campus and east to the tracks north of I-244 for future expansion.  I would also include the land north of the campus on Sunset Hill as medium density residential replacing the low income apartments there.  Keep all commercial development in existing corridors in Brady south of I-244, especially along Main.

Don't we have some forumers that live in Brady Heights?  I would be interested in their opinions.

Conan,

I'm not from here... I knew bits of that story, but putting it all together really shed some light on that area for me.

Dwelling on the past is a vice.  But knowing history so we can learn from it is imperative.  We repeated the same mistake with Bell's, with every empty lot downtown, with every canceled bus line...  Our city's long term planning is nonexistent.
...

And of course we are an oligarchy.  The entire country is.  A new study shows that even wildly popular notions fail if they are opposed by top lobbies.   http://m.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

Surely this will get better with the introduction of more money into politics...

Owen Park-er here.
I experience civic pride every time I walk out the door and stand on my porch.   ;D

I'd like to point out the elephant in the room: David L Moss Criminal Justice Center (aka The County Jail).

The vibe I've gotten from the folks who live in the Brady Heights neighborhood is one where they tend to drive places (same as other Tulsans) because the neighborhood itself (which includes alot of renters) doesn't inspire much confidence in perceived public safety.  The neighborhood is only a few blocks walk to the Brady District, yet I'd be hard-pressed to tell you exactly how many residents of that area would care to take a walk past the jail, the Salvation Army, and John 3:16 Mission to have a night on the town... so, yeah... even downtown areas that theoretically should be pedestrian friendly are... well... NOT.

I'd also venture to guess that if given the choice, most in that neighborhood would want to vote as part of District 4 and not District 1.
My neighborhood was recently added to District 4 and there are no regrets here...

***also, This Land Press reminds me a bit of the Chicago Reader with lengthy stories that seem at times too self-important and self-indulgent... but this story was relatively short and pretty informative... and, as the resident soccer guy on this forum, I'd hate to leave out the comprehensive story about what's going on with the Drillers and the Athletics... http://thislandpress.com/06/04/2014/the-soul-of-the-game/***

The western and eastern ends of Brady are night and day different, and I agree walking along Denver by the jail is not a pleasant experience.  A streetscape through there would be an improvement but still not great.  I do think Boulder could a great alternative though and could be the ped connection Brady Heights needs to grow.

Unfortunately, walking from Brady Heights down Boulder is... well... sparse... for the foreseeable future.
There's so little foot traffic there, that I'd rather walk down Denver, believe it or not... "safety in numbers" meets "the devil you know"...

I have some great stories of the area from 30+ years ago best shared over a beer.  Ah, the stupidity of youth!

Boulder should be the connector for downtown and Brady/Reservoir Hill greater N Tulsa.  The intersection of Boulder/Main/John Hope Franklin would be a great spot for a roundabout/traffic circle similar to S Elgin/10th/11th.  Other than Denver I believe Boulder (via Main north John Hope Franklin) is the only street that connects from Pine to 21st/Riverside.