Vision 2 returns from the dead

[Hoss]

Come on, guy...get into reality just once in a while...  You obviously aren't getting out of the house to see anything at all.  Tulsa downtown, and Pearl and all these cutesie little catch-phrase places are making massive progress at renewing a lot of areas of town that have languished for years.  OKC ain't doing what we are doing now - and what we have been doing.  They got bricktown.  Blah, blah, blah....

And yeah, there are fun/interesting things to do there, but overall, if you had spent as much time as I have there, you would really appreciate what Tulsa offers a lot more.  And you would never consider moving there over Tulsa.  (Right Conan - since I know you have spent quite a bit of time there...?)

As for trails - they are so far behind that it will take them 20 years to catch up to Tulsa - they really are limited and lack connection to segments.  We have a fantastic set of trails...amazing for just about any city.  (Dare I say "world class"?)  Wish there was even more, and hopefully the progress and process won't stop.

You'd have to live here in order to get out and see other things in Tulsa.  I'm still not convinced he lives here.  In the two years he's claimed that he has, not one shred of evidence that can't be found on public websites.  Not one photo..nothing.

Just sayin'

[rdj]

Roof height of BOK Tower= 667'    Roof height of  Devon Tower = 850'    So it's about 180' taller.   

BOK Tower/Williams Center floors = 50
Devon Tower floors = 50 (down from an initial 54 then 52)

[heironymouspasparagus]

You'd have to live here in order to get out and see other things in Tulsa.  I'm still not convinced he lives here.  In the two years he's claimed that he has, not one shred of evidence that can't be found on public websites.  Not one photo..nothing.

Just sayin'

Yeah, but you could have the same issue with me...I never have figured out how to get a picture on here.  (Hasn't really been a huge thing yet...).  

I had a little time to wander on Friday and went zig-zagging through downtown, then out 6th through Pearl.  (Had a friend who lived in house at corner of Zunis, right on that little curve, in previous life who got drunk, went out on the entry roof from second floor and fell asleep.  Then rolled off the roof and died from the fall.)

Lots of stuff going on to bring those areas back.  Some I like, some not, but it is movement rather than stagnation.  Like those mega-apartment looking things being built east of Lewis.  What is that all about?

I found Fab-Lab, though and looked through the windows!!  Looks like a lot of fun.  And 3D printer??  I want to play with that!!  I LOVE the Dalek on the front porch!!  

And just by pure luck, kept on south and found Starship - wasn't even looking for it, but went inside and looked around.  Didn't see my favorite "graphic novel" - Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers...but maybe I didn't look hard enough.  That's where I bought all my Mother Earth News magazines through the 70's.  Not to mention that little "house" behind the original store on 11th....good party place with good friends.

I definitely got some looks.  Am sure most of the customers thought I was a "narc" or something...

Went by a place some friends lived in on south Toledo Place & 36th that has an old oak tree out front with a plaque that "certifies" it as being there before statehood in 1907.  Yeah... somebody has been smoking something I would like to share....it was about 12" diameter and about 15 years old in 1965.  And me and the friends buried a "time capsule at the base of it.  Big now, though.

Lots going on.  Good to see the activity.

And as I mentioned, OKC has nothing on T-town.

[TheArtist]

BOK Tower/Williams Center floors = 50
Devon Tower floors = 50 (down from an initial 54 then 52)

Cityplex 60 floors  and shorter than both the above.

[rdj]

Cityplex 60 floors  and shorter than both the above.

Oh, I know.  Floors has nothing to do with height.  That was my point.

[Townsend]

Cityplex 60 floors  and shorter than both the above.

That still throws me.  Shouldn't it've been 900 feet tall?

[swake]

That still throws me.  Shouldn't it've been 900 feet tall?

Nothing can be as big as Jesus

[Townsend]

Nothing can be as big as Jesus

Lennon disagrees

[DTowner]

Come on, guy...get into reality just once in a while...  You obviously aren't getting out of the house to see anything at all.  Tulsa downtown, and Pearl and all these cutesie little catch-phrase places are making massive progress at renewing a lot of areas of town that have languished for years.  OKC ain't doing what we are doing now - and what we have been doing.  They got bricktown.  Blah, blah, blah....

And yeah, there are fun/interesting things to do there, but overall, if you had spent as much time as I have there, you would really appreciate what Tulsa offers a lot more.  And you would never consider moving there over Tulsa.  (Right Conan - since I know you have spent quite a bit of time there...?)

As for trails - they are so far behind that it will take them 20 years to catch up to Tulsa - they really are limited and lack connection to segments.  We have a fantastic set of trails...amazing for just about any city.  (Dare I say "world class"?)  Wish there was even more, and hopefully the progress and process won't stop.

Let's not delude ourselves with Tulsa pride, we've made a lot of progress but OKC still has a big lead on us and the gap is holding steady if not getting bigger.  Tulsa should use OKC's progress/activities as motivation and inspiration, but not obsess over every item or try to copy every idea OKC is pursuing.  Each city has very different geographical and historical advantages and disadvantages.

While Tulsa's public investments in downtown have really started paying off the last couple of years, we cannot sit back and do nothing as a community and assume everything will be ok (that attitude allowed us to fall so far behind in the first place).  The City can really keep the momentum going through key policies and expenditures in targeted areas.  That's why Vision 2 was such a bad idea – it ignored the past model of success and was a disconnected grab bag of goodies to hand out.

That said, the airport property issues/improvements cannot be ignored.  Those items should not be part of a "vision" vote, but need to be addressed.

[carltonplace]

Lots of stuff going on to bring those areas back.  Some I like, some not, but it is movement rather than stagnation.  Like those mega-apartment looking things being built east of Lewis.  What is that all about?

That is a Kaiser development.

See the Tulsa Now discussion here: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=16207.0

[heironymouspasparagus]

Let's not delude ourselves with Tulsa pride, we've made a lot of progress but OKC still has a big lead on us and the gap is holding steady if not getting bigger.  Tulsa should use OKC's progress/activities as motivation and inspiration, but not obsess over every item or try to copy every idea OKC is pursuing.  Each city has very different geographical and historical advantages and disadvantages.

While Tulsa's public investments in downtown have really started paying off the last couple of years, we cannot sit back and do nothing as a community and assume everything will be ok (that attitude allowed us to fall so far behind in the first place).  The City can really keep the momentum going through key policies and expenditures in targeted areas.  That's why Vision 2 was such a bad idea – it ignored the past model of success and was a disconnected grab bag of goodies to hand out.

That said, the airport property issues/improvements cannot be ignored.  Those items should not be part of a "vision" vote, but need to be addressed.

I've spent a LOT of time in the last few years in OKC and surrounding areas (south - Moore, Norman, Valley Brook, Midwest City, Dell City..), and I must run in dramatically different circles.  I just don't see that OKC has much on Tulsa area at all.  Guess it goes to the things I am most interested in....biggest example I can think of is absolutely no interest in pro-basketball.

Oh, except ROADS!!  They don't have all the turnpikes we have....!!

[AquaMan]

Yeah, OKC sucks, blah, blah, blah. This DTnr guy makes a lot of sense to me. When I see tour buses arriving from OKC and the rest of rural Oklahoma to visit our new downtown areas I'll be more persuaded that we have at least parity with the attractions of "the city" which include the seat of government, Murrah and longer history. When we jump ahead and put in rail trolley type systems, then yes, we have arrived.

But if we don't, that's okay. We are moving at our own pace, in our own direction and for different reasons. The real mistake is in believing we're somewhere or someone we aren't.

[rdj]

Lots of OKC people with Beiber fever.  They're in town today spending their money!

[Teatownclown]

Lots of OKC people with Beiber fever.  They're in town today spending their money!

and is Bieber in the Mayo blunt down?

[rdj]

and is Bieber in the Mayo blunt down?

I would expect so.  His entourage has been in town for a few days.  They've been spotted shopping and drinking at various places downtown.