The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Last month I wrote:


..and its beginning to look like that's actually being considered:

Mayor Requests Fire and Police Furloughs

"A budget bombshell from Mayor Kathy Taylor.  Officials with the fire and police departments confirm the Mayor has asked them to make furloughs a part of their upcoming contracts and that’s raising questions about public safety. "
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Mayor-Requests-Fire-and-Police-Furloughs/nWARUsIzKkKkBre3deqeCg.cspx

This on the heels of a report about the mayor's own spending, which includes $55,000 every year for her and her staff and councilors for parking spaces near the new city hall.
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Wasting-Your-Tax-Dollars/oBSAozc_xE6OCiXLvfacSw.cspx


"The mayor said that the furloughs would be temporary and would add up to a 1.5% pay cut for each employee.  She says that would save the city about $2.5 million.
The alternative, the mayor says, is to permanently decrease the city’s payroll by $2.5 million, which would mean eliminating more positions and cutting core services."

There is another way to save $2.5 million:  Cut back on wasteful streetlights.  Calgary did it.
http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/BU/roads/streetlights/pamphlet.pdf

Energy costs for Tulsa streetlights doubled just between 2003 and 2006 -- this after we passed an ordinance calling for us to "Reduce the City's overall, total energy consumption 3-5% per year through calendar year 2006" (Ord. Nos. 20188, 20546)

Would we be having to furlough public safety people if the last two city administrations had
simply paid attention to the law?
Bad streetlights certainly arent our only problem.

When some departments have to do without office necessities, other offices spend thousands on plants and decorations, for example.
It seems we have a lot of sacred cows in city government that have gotten way too fat over they years.   

It took until 12:30 today (bcast on tv last night and TW this AM) for someone to show concern for our city workers.

If that doesn't say a butt-full about the attendees at TNF.

What patric isn't taking into account is replacing the bulbs would be a year one loss. The mayor is looking for a short term budget cut.

I would gladly take a furlough if it meant me and my coworkers got to keep our jobs.

Well what's your excuse for not starting a thread sooner. 

No empathy here it appears.....

Aside from the inference that this is something we should have seriously looked at much sooner, there are immediate steps that can be taken, such as switching over expressway lighting from continuous to interchange lighting (cutting back on all-night lighting along straightaways between curves and ramps, etc), turning off alternate fixtures where the fixture density is high, shutting off fixtures that serve no verifiable public safety benefit, and soforth. 

When LaFortune cut expressway lights, he darkened entire segments when he should have left ramps, curves and interchanges lit.  That was a mistake, and it led to an outcry among people that were convinced that you cant drive at 55mph without streetlights.  God forbid anyone try to drive 75 on an unlit highway...   

But among one of the first things we should be doing is halting the new installation of real money wasters like Acorn decorative lights and pointless floodlighting.  You cant heal the wound till you stop the bleeding, so why continue to install bad lights knowing we have to give up other city services to cover the electric bill?     

No more than the empathy I have for those that have LOST their jobs (except UAW members of course).

Surely the mayor could make cuts to some of her pet projects or take the money out of her secret slush fund.  Yeah right.  LOL. 

I like Guido911 and FOTD.  They should get a news show together.

Let me get this straight.....

We're going to force furlough police, who are already at minimum manning levels, which means you will have to hire another officer back at time and one half to replace the guy you furloughed at straight time.

Really?

Sounds like a boom for police salaries!!

They could always move back into the old city hall and sell the Borg Cube.

Every government entity in a matter of time will max out their credit cards.  The city has suddenly realized, as noted by their credit rating, the old cliché that we must live with in our means should be a household words.   Whereas sooner or later we must stop pork barrel spending for our grandchildren to pay off. When this occurs in past governments it has resulted in a change of those governments through rebellion.  It is very easy to increase wages when the old phrase of “For the children”’ has been now replaced by “It’s for public safety”.  The bottom line is how do we bring inflation down where there is equality in sustaining a normal life for everyone?  How do we do away with greed?

Our sales tax support is deprecating as the population and city employees are moving to the suburbs and taking with them the major retail outlets.  Also the sales taxes we budgeted for.        

I hear that if the furloughs go through, Kathy Taylor will give bonuses to her top staffers.


Don't worry, she truly is a mayor for the little guy.

$2.5 million is less than 1/2 percent of a $600 million budget.

For the Mayor to dump that onto the staff is purely bad management and totally unnecessary. It's very much like credit card companies who boost your interest rate on existing balances at the same time they cut your limit in half.

It hurts those least able to afford it.

Any operation which can't find a way to cut 5% without affecting performance isn't doing their job. To take less than a 1/10th of that and make the employees pay it is flat unfair.

I think Wilbur may be on to something about police coming back at 1.5x their current rate. It's votes, ya know.

If we read in the morning paper one of our leading banks show a profit of 10%.  This shows that they have good management that we seem to be lacking in.  Now I understand they buy our tax free revenue bonds without any other bids for 25% interest above the prevailing market.  They are insured that if the bonds should default the city will pick up the tab for the millions of dollars in interest over the next 30 years. (Like the airport deal).  We should hire a city manager that has experience on their board of directors.  Or do we have one who wants to furlough employees to save money?

The city operating budget is roughly 90% O&M 10% Capital
They have to come up with about $13M extra
They cut roughly 20% of Capital
They cut roughly 0.5% of O&M

When you are running an organization whose budget is almost all in operating expenses, where can you cut? You can't stop putting gas in police cars, you can't stop providing water and you don't want to touch employee benefits. Employee salaries (not counting benefits) are roughly 28% of the budget.

and just a thought for everyone to chew on.  On chatty kathy's order, all the copying machines for the city of tulsa were replaced.  on general this wouldn't mean much, unless you look at the cost and pure volume of it all.  When I say all, I mean all, even the little one out at the maintnance shack that has barely been used.   Everythign was upgraded from what they had.  So, we're talking roughly 500 machines (I'm shooting low here because I'm not sure of the exact numbers), that cost about 3k each (once again, going for the low end).  That was $1.5 million on something that really wasn't needed.  Just shows were the priorities are with our great mayor.

Why is it I can't find a report on total city income vs total city expenditures?

What I mean is, I want to see a report that includes every single penny of income regardless of sources, including grants, fees, fines, licenses, water, sales tax, third penny sales tax, 2025 tax, 911 fees on phone bills, taxes on electric, gas, assessments, ...........  every single penny.

Then, I want to see a report that includes every single penny of expenditures, regardless of which budget it's included in.  Everything such as operating, capital, third penny, 2025............  every single penny.

Then I want to see that comparison for the past couple of years.

Where does one find that? 

Once it's found, I think most people will be very surprised to see what we are spending now compared to just five years ago.

I've been wondering how to go about doing that myself.  Let me konw if you find a way.

just ran a quick search and came up with these reports.  http://www.cityoftulsa.org/OurCity/Budget/MonthlyFinancial.asp (http://www.cityoftulsa.org/OurCity/Budget/MonthlyFinancial.asp) and http://www.cityauditorphilwood.com/CAFR/CAFR2008.pdf (http://www.cityauditorphilwood.com/CAFR/CAFR2008.pdf)

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and to throw another one of interest in...
http://www.tulsacouncil.org/pdfs/Tulsa%20Prsntn%208.26.08.pdf (http://www.tulsacouncil.org/pdfs/Tulsa%20Prsntn%208.26.08.pdf)
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Please add the "Debt" incurred during the past few years.

Is "Debt Service" the finance charge on the debt the City has?

I would like to see the actual cost of all of the changes i.e. OTC, Mothballing of various City properties, management of BOK versus the glob of tax revenue we are supposed to be making, and what sort of increase or "furlough" given to the Tulsa Metro Chamber. A true P and L statement.

That can't be too much to ask for.

I heard on the news this AM that city employees were being requested to take 4 days unpaid off in the next year.

Is that in addition to the force furloughs or is that what we are talking about?  If that's it, then great.  A good way of doing it if it cures the problem.
- - -

While we are talking about budgets, is any sort of evaluation available or forthcoming on the financial consequences of the move to the new City Palace?  How much is that costing us on an annual basis given that the old properties are still being paid for by the city too.
- - -

And finally, nationwide we have a great example of why NOT to grow government.  As soon as a government has more money available they spend it and do so in a way that assume this new money will always be available.  When the economy inevitably slows down there is a budget panic.  As soon as it picks back up, we spend money like water again.

I wish Tulsa could set out to get AHEAD in the operating budget (not bond maintenance etc.).  To work one year in the positive.  The money collected in 2008 is put in a trust (a real trust, not those BS governmental lock boxes) and then budgeted for expenditure the following year.  We 'd know how much we had, garner a little interest, and improve our bond rating for capital improvements a crap ton.

Won't ever happen, just sayin'.  Government should assume lean times are ahead, not assume that growth is inevitable and we have money to spend.

This is an excellent point, Shadows.  Many cities have a residency requirement for city employees.  Last I heard, over 60% of their employees live outside of Tulsa, which is a lose-lose for Tulsans.  For emergency workers, it puts them further from work in case of trouble; police cars in driveways are making some suburban city safer; and a couple of thousand employees are spending their salaries in ways that benefit neighboring, and unfortunately competing, cities.

Can someone tell me what the annual budget is for Tulsa? I just want to get some figures to do a comparison Between Tulsa and the city I work for which is roughly half the size.

How much were the maintenance contracts on those old copiers?

4,000 employees likely had no more than a few hundred copiers. You can replace 90% of the copiers and printers with MFD's for $2k a piece. An organization with 4k people could be spending $600K per year on maintenance contracts alone with older printers/copier. Replacing with new MFD's for $800k and then have an ongoing cost of less than half that is a great cost savings.

I don't know the pricing on the maintenance contract, but since it was carried over from the previous ones I'm going to assume that there wasn't a change in cost of maintenance (the contract covers all maintenance for the machines).

Maintenance costs are based on the number of machines, age of the machine, availability of parts, etc. 1 year of maintenance on a device can exceed replacement cost pretty easy.

But now you have admitted you don't know how many machines nor how much they cost, nor anything about the length of the maintenence contracts. All you have is a slam opportunity to call the Mayor a deragotory name and pass on some innuendo.

I am just amazed at what people will attack her for. For all we know the purchasing department went through their annual bidding process and bought some copiers like they do every year.

Did the previous Mayor buy any new copiers? Probably. Did you call him names and imply his priorities were out of whack? No.

no, I know about this because I personally put in half of the machines.  I gave rough estimates on the number because I didn't bother to stop and count them.  I gave a rough estimate on the cost per machine because differant models have differant prices. In fact, there are three in the city hall now that cost about as much as a new car (and are about the size of one).  I am not in sales, so I do not know any of the details of the maintenance is, so I don't even give estimates on that.  I do know that a lot of the machines that were replaced did not need to be, and had no real maintenance cost for the use they had. 

In order RM to update, the former mayor was also of the same gender as the present one. 

Lafortune was a woman?

Explains a lot.

Gender identity FAIL....

$578,000,000

Add in her requirement to replace the email system.

Possibly the Mayor could hold a "Town Hall" style meeting and give the public an opportunity to question some of these "vital services". You know a modern day approach to allow the citizens of Tulsa to become more involved in the local Government.

TulsaNow could make this happen.

The Mayor could make this happen.

These cuts affect more than just the City employees.

Thanks for the info.

and in the same meeting, citizens can offer cost saving ideas.  I have weekly conference calls at work with other managers from all over the region and the sole purpose is to come up with effective cost cutting and additional revenue generating ideas.

I don't have a problem with furloughing "non essential" employees for a few days if thats one of the only ways they do it, but I think there are some better alternatives.

They should look into their expenses and see where they can cut certain things from diff depts.  Not major cuts or anything but small things like getting bids on office supplies instead of using their same supplier I am sure they have been using for years, turning off lights and computers at night (that ice cube is bright at night).  I do not work for the city so I am not sure what their protocal is or how they operate, but there has to be certain things they have been doing for years that can be done more economically.



I

That means nothing if you have a maintenance contract on the copier. The point of the contract is to have a flat fee.

Do we even know that the city did own or now owns its copiers? Just wondering, since almost all of my clients lease theirs, as it tends to be cheaper for their workload.

A few years ago, the city went thru this same thing.  Mayor Lafortune wanted all city employees to take a pay cut.  The FOP found a way to save the city even more money and not take a pay cut.  The mayor went with the FOP's suggestion and saved additional money (while officers lost money because they chose to take all overtime in compensatory time).  However, all the other city employees were mad that the police officers did not take a pay cut.

When the FOP talked to the mayor about how money was saved the last time this happened, she did not want to even listen.  She is determined that all city employees will have "furlough days".  This is actually better for the officers because our base pay may be cut 1.54% but our overtime opportunities just increased dramatically for several reasons.  In fact, I think I will probably see my pay going up.

1.  Within the department, there are minimium manning levels for each shift. The federal government ruled that compensatory time must be given unless there is a emergency.  As a result, we are continually hiring officers back to get above minimium manning levels. On the day the officer gets "furloughed", we will just put him at the top of the overtime list.  That officer will then work the next overtime shift offered.  Now that officer is getting overtime for a 10 hour shift that he was earlier furloughed for at a rate of time and a half.

2. Less officers on the street means less people to do the work.  Therefore, more work (calls, reports ect) to do.  Officers will be working longer hours and getting time and a half for it. No one is going to tell officers that they can not enforce the law for the last hour or two of their shifts.

I will make a prediction that within the police budget, the mayor will spend more money on overtime in the next fiscal year then she will save with the furloughs.

Here's some info from an old(03/04/07) article about the Mayor's employees raises (http://"http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/printerfriendlystory.aspx?articleID=070304_Ne_A15_Mayor10137"):

Mayor Kathy Taylor's 13 at-will employees saw raises ranging from 8 percent to 22 percent in January, even though most of them began working for the city less than a year ago

The mayor's 13 at-will employees include:

    * Lisa Mosely, a carryover from former Mayor Bill LaFortune's administration, who was the lowest paid staffer in Taylor's office, making $23,463 to be the front desk receptionist. Her new salary after receiving a 22 percent raise is $28,546.

    * Susan Neal joined the mayor's staff May 15 and is the education and legislative liaison and oversees a number of depart ments. She received a 17 percent raise, bumping her salary from $76,099 to $89,026.

    * Josh Davis joined the mayor's team April 11 as an aide but is now a policy and research analyst. He received a 12.5 percent raise, increasing his salary from $37,565 to $42,256.

    * Christian Helm started April 25 and Monroe Nichols began working May 16 as aides. Both received 11 percent raises, bumping their salaries from $33,395 to $37,116.



Taylor's eight additional at-will employees received 8 percent salary raises.

    * Deputy Mayor Tom Baker, who started work April 11, saw his salary increase from $82,309 to $89,026.

    * General Counsel Nancy Siegel, who originated the position Sept. 1, had her pay raised from $87,803 to $94,968.

    * Communications Director Sheryl Lovelady, who began Aug. 1, had her salary increased from $82,309 to $89,026.

    * Chief Technology Officer Ben Stout, who joined the city Aug. 1, received a salary raise from $125,000 to $135,204. A portion, $30,000, comes from the Tulsa Community Foundation.

      Stout is the fourth highest paid employee in the city's government, behind Public Works Department Director Charles Hardt, who earns $171,304; City Physician Phillip Berry, who makes $161,537; and Fire Chief Allen LaCroix, who earns $145,344. Police Chief Dave Been is ranked fifth, making $132,476.

    * Economic Development and Real Estate Director Don Himelfarb, who joined the city Sept. 5, received a pay raise from $105,000 to $113,568.

    * Deputy Director of Policy and Research Monica Barczak, who came to work for the mayor June 24, received a salary raise from $62,548 to $67,652.

    * Mayoral Scheduler Leslie Meade, who started April 10, had her pay increased from $43,946 to $47,532.

    * Monica Hamilton, another LaFortune carryover, was moved from heading up neighborhood outreach and services to leading the Mayor's Action Center. Her pay was increased from $40,630 to $43,946.

That occured when times were better. Many of those employees don't work there anymore.

Many of those salaries are also lower than similar responsibility positions on the council staff. Most of her staff also makes less than the starting salary of a Tulsa police officer. The council chief of staff makes 15% more than the Mayor's similar person. The council has a research guy being paid $76,000 per year. Why the outrage of the Mayor's staff and silence on the Council's?

If you compare the salaries of the top people, the IT guy, Communications officer, the lawyer, the Chief of staff, etc., you will see they are right in line with similar paying jobs in other cities and the private sector.

Which may or may not have been wise, depending on what the previous platform was, what its ongoing support costs would be, and what features the new one brings to the table that the old one did not have.

Now, if the change was merely because the new "CTO" was unfamiliar with the old system, (Say he's an Exchange/Outlook person and the city was using Domino/Notes) that is in fact something we should be upset about.

If anyone has further information on this, I'd be interested to hear it, since it's in my area of expertise.

I find it strange when you say these people should be paid on average with the "jobs in other cities and the private sector", but when it comes to the rest of the employees you say they shouldn't be paid average because they "are paid enough."

Naw he was only a stand-in between truly acting mayors.

The previous machines were leased.  I honestly can't say rather the new ones are leased or owned.  My point is that this was a lot of money worth of equipment, and while some was needed not all of it was.  However, I will concede the point that the lease being up may have made it neccessary to replace them.

No, it was not an annual bidding.  Same company that was used previously, and it's not a yearly situation of replacing some of the machines, but a complete replaement of all machines.

And for the record, I liked LaFortune even less, and was hoping Taylor would lead us in a better direction.

Someone, PLEASE, help me understand....

In March, the Mayor puts in place a city-wide hiring freeze........ then over the course of not even two months, authorizes the hiring of 60 more people, then..........  announces she has no choice but to layoff 17 current employees in order to meet budget, then ..........  hires some dude as Intragovermental Affairs at $80K+, then ...... who knows what's next.

Please pass the duct tape!  My head is about to explode.

Many of those 60 hires were police and fire...

Oh that would make the applicant pool just great.  Here you have a GED you can be a police officer.  The schools in Tulsa suck so people move to other cities including the city employees.

If she did that she might have to try and work up another fake cry.

Okay, I don't care much for the mayor. I think she has made a lot of mistakes.  However, nitpicking every little thing is getting petty.  I see the same things when it comes to Obama, and saw the same with Bush.  When everything you say about a person is negative (or positive), then it hurts your credibility.  If you cannot give credit where it is due, then you will be concidered a zeolot and folks will think that you are going to say whatever you want just to push your own view point.

Where did you find out the mayors staff salaries?  A starting police officer earns $38,000 a year during the 6 month academy.   Then they make $42,000.  It is hard for  me to believe that the mayors staff makes less than that.

read page three of this thread

So.... I guess when you said "most of her staff also makes less than the starting salary of a Tulsa police officer" you meant to say "1 or 2 of her staff also makes less than the starting salary of a Tulsa police officer"?

Some of those mentioned shouldn't be considered  "her staff". Most of them were there before her and some of them, like the city Physician work independently of her.

Of the remaining ones mentioned, almost half make less than the starting pay for a police officer. Again, compare these salaries to the same jobs for the City Council and the County Commission. They are competitve, but right in line.

I am not saying that they are not overpaid nor underpaid.

That would mean you are saying they are paid just right!

I think some are and some aren't. I think making a blanket statement about any workforce seems foolish. I am sure some of the top paid people work very hard to earn their pay and others don't. I would bet the same is true of the lower paid workers at the city and any other company of 4,000 employees.

Okay you attorneys.....

In a story coming out of California, the Feds are threatening to withhold stimulus money because California is cutting the wages of a union health care group.  Something about the stimulus bills prevents lowering wages below prevailing rates.

Do any of you know if that is something that only applies to the health care field?  Just California?  All unions?  .....?

My angle is, could the City of Tulsa cut wages (or furlough employees) who are members of a union if the city accepts stimulus money?

Man, you so totally know what you're talking about: 


Awwww...it seems that Owasso and Broken Arrow didn't even crack the top 1,300.  Buck up little campers!  There's always next year.

Booker T is 1 school out of how many?  And what does the ** indicate?

 I assume you missed Edison.

That’s two of nine TPS high schools in the top 5% nationally, that’s awfully good for an underfunded mostly poor and minority urban school district. TPS has great challenges and does a good job overall working to overcome those challenges.

One divided into something equals a positive percentage.

Now, tell me how much zero divided into anything is?

 ;D

Based on newly released Sales Tax revenues from the state, the City is looking at a need to reduce the budget by additional $7 million FY2009-2010. 

Posted on Tulsa World:

City faces growing budget hole

by: BRIAN BARBER World Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 12, 2009
5/12/2009 5:25:17 PM

Mayor Kathy Taylor informed city councilors and employees Tuesday that her $578 million proposed budget for the upcoming fiscal year will have to be cut by about $7 million due to a continuing drop in sales tax revenues.

Of that amount, about $5 million will affect the general operating fund and $2 million will impact third-penny capital projects.

“We are absolutely going to look at everything in the city system to find savings,” she said. “Unfortunately, there are not many actions that we can take that won’t affect our employees and, ultimately, our service levels.”

Taylor is recommending a number of measures to bridge the $5 million general operating fund gap, including slashing the pay of the few hundred city managers by 3.5 percent for a $526,000 savings.

That would be in addition to the four unpaid furlough days that are already included in the budget for all city employees that amount to a 1.5 percent pay cut, bringing the total salary impact to the managers to 5 percent.

Another suggestion the mayor made is charging EMSA $50 for every medical run that firefighters also respond to, bringing in $1.6 million.

Other recommended actions by Taylor include eliminating all employee parking subsidies for $400,000 and all Mayor’s Office cell phone subsidies for $8,000 and cancelling the city’s $75,000 annual membership to the Oklahoma Municipal League.

In all, the mayor made about $2.6 million worth of suggestions to councilors, saying “These don’t get us all the way there, but I think they are a good start.”

If additional unpaid furlough days are added to the four already in the budget, each day would bring in $625,000 for the general fund, Taylor said.

“It’s certainly something we’re going to have to take a serious look at given the financial situation we’re in,” she said.

Police, fire and labor and trades union officials have all said they plan to fight being part of the furlough days. Taylor said the negotiations on their contracts are ongoing but that the city has the authority to make all employee groups participate.

The impact to the ongoing third-penny program means that some projects could be delayed, officials said.

City finance officials realized the proposed budget would have to be revised after receiving Tulsa’s May sales tax check, which was 8.1 percent down from the same month in 2008.

The $16.1 million check from the Oklahoma Tax Commission is about $1.4 million below the one in May 2008 and $2 million below budget projections, Finance Director Mike Kier said.

The money was collected between March 16 to April 15.

“This has caused us to re-examine whether we can justify and support our numbers in the proposed budget,” Kier said.

When budget forecasting began in November, sales tax revenue was expected to be $234 million for the 2009-10 fiscal year. Since then, that forecast number has been continually revised and is now $208 million.

Councilor Bill Martinson said the free fall will eventually stop but the city needs to “plan for the worst and hope for the best.”

“If we don’t do that, what would end up happening is that we would have to make some dramatic adjustments on the fly,” he said. “The result of that would be complete disaster from a service standpoint.”

Councilor Bill Christiansen said the city has to focus on “needs and not wants.”

Christiansen took issue with some of the roughly 60 supposedly critical city positions that have been filled since the mayor implemented a hiring freeze in February.

“Admittedly a lot of them are needed,” he said. “I’ll be the first to say that. But I do question some of them.”

The council is working to review, make changes to and approve the budget before the July 1 start of the fiscal year.

Come on DowntownNever, where's your side-swipe on Mayor Taylor?  Don't let us down!

Eliminate one new road project or overlay and you save all employees' furloughs.  Where's the priority?

If the six-day furlough option takes effect, it could mean fewer firefighters on a truck, or fewer fire trucks altogether.
 
“Local 176 does not believe we can diminish public safety any further than we are.  We’re already running three on a truck 85% of the time and the national standard is four on a truck,” says fire union president Stan May.
 
The fire and police chiefs have agreed to work with the city.  For firefighters, that could mean making other concessions rather than the furloughs, to maintain adequate staffing levels.
 
Councilor Christiansen says cuts to police and fire should be a last resort.
 
“I think the number one priority for city of Tulsa should be public safety for the citizens of Tulsa.”
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/City-Budget-Needs-More-Cuts/9Ph5XaRNfUeU_UNGBRPzdw.cspx

While we debate the specifics of how to gut police, fire and EMSA, there is not one whisper about putting the fat sacred cow of wasteful streetlights on a diet.....

We could at least STOP installing new acorns, you know.
No one is suggesting plunging neighborhoods into darkness, just stop installing outrageously expensive novelty lights that do a piss poor job of lighting streets. 

How much money are we talking about, you say?
See page 9:
http://ww2.cityoftulsa.org/COTlegacy/documents/CityofTulsaEnergyConservationandEfficiencyPlan.pdf

I wish someone would seriously suggest this. Streetlights are mostly unnecessary. They should be installed where required, not on every corner as a matter of course.

Personally, I prefer walking in the parts of my neighborhood that don't leave me feeling like I've got a target painted on my back and a spotlight shining in my face blinding me.

The furlough proposal is now up to eight (8) days now, btw.
...and I do like some lit streets, too.  Warm, inviting streets that promote utilization by families or people just out for a walk, not prison-yard-like landscapes that scream "high-crime area" because someone at one point decided a streetlight isnt a streetlight unless it burns a minimum amount of electricity the city must buy.

If they city will buy me a bb gun and a couple of cases of bb's, and promise not to replace the bulbs, I can save us lots of money

Not a good idea.  The ballasts still use electricity even when the bulb is out or broken.
But what a photo-op  ;)

---

Still not even a mention of the Millions paid to the Tulsa Metro Chamber out of the "Hotel Motel Tax"..

What sort of redundant action goes on, as long as this has, without even being put on the table to examine..
We have the Tulsa Metro Chamber, Mister Bunney "sp?", the City Economic Development Board, etc., etc,

This "slice of the City sales tax revenue" is poised to grow to keep pace with the Arena, Convention Center, and other activities in the City of Tulsa..
Anyone, on this Board, know the amount our contribution to the Tulsa Metro Chamber's "slush fund" is at this point??

Someone please, have the "balls", to speak up and ask some questions regarding the huge savings this would bring to the entire City.


[/quote]

Looks like city employee pays cuts are going to be used for a new museum and swimming pools:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=272&articleid=20090516_272_A11_Offici130711

http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=10371634

Just what this city desperately needs...... swimming pools and a new museum.

Whew!  And, I thought the pay cut savings were going to be wasted.  Silly me.

I love baseless bitching in the early afternoon.

Where is the indication that operating funds are coming from the city for the museum this year?

And yes, the city does need more pools. Not that they're going to open any more than the seven they did last year.

I think the point is that the city should be focused on public safety more than swimming pools, museums, etc. Incidentally, where are all those new police the mayor promised to get?

Fearmonger much?

Been a victim of a crime lately?

Gweed-Spooner.

 ;D

As a matter of a fact, yes.

And ur against more public safety?  I guess you like being the victim of a crime.

The problem isn't a lack of police officers. The problem is people who can't handle their drugs and people who are stealing because they're desperate. Property and drug crimes make up the majority of crime.

There are better ways of handling those issues than more police. Now, if we're down to the point where staffing levels are putting officers at risk due to lack of backup during dangerous situations, that's a problem that needs solving. I haven't read anything indicating that to be the case, though.

Morons like cutosnox's assailant aren't deterred by police, unless perhaps they happen to be standing nearby at the moment. I don't think anybody wants to hire enough police to have them literally standing on every corner and every 50 feet in between. In addition to being cost prohibitive, it would be quite aggravating to walk down the sidewalk.

Lack of police officers is a major problem.  Here you go.

Police review recommends increase in positions

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20080812_11_A9_CUTLIN543872&archive=yes

Police review recommends increase in positions

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20080925_11_A9_hThePo484976&archive=yes

More cops, say councilors

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081120_11_A9_hCitin752655&archive=yes

Manpower boost leads to increased arrests

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=14&articleid=20090311_14_0_Aboost993031&archive=yes


Extra officers lead to more arrests

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090312_11_A9_Aboost807690&archive=yes

I think many city departments are working below recommended staffing levels. We don't have enough money to fix the streets, staff the parks, etc.

I don't support treating one city department of employees any differently than any other.

Not a problem until you have to call 911 to save yourself or your family and no one is available.  Maybe someone from the mayor's office can come save you.

The reality of the situation is that we are different.

Just FYI,

NewsChannel 8Pulse Poll
Should police and fire departments be a part of the Mayor's four-day furlough plan? 
 
Yes        19%
No        81%
 
Total: 6313 votes

The fact that they took an hour to get there is rather disturbing.  I even called back at one point and told them that this guy was still in the area and coming over to where I was parked trying to start crap up again.  This slow response in this type of situation is does not tell me that we need to cut the amount of officers on the street.  I can understand the time for response if there wasn't an immediate danger (car stereo got stolen), even if it is frustrating then. 

Having lived across the street from a TPD that spent most of his day at home with his car running in his driveway, im not convinced we make the best use of the resources we have.

In the past, when we have hired more police than we have assignments to fill, you end up seeing more and more funneled into special projects like Vice Squad (Street Crimes) or elite units that ultimately spend their time on high-profile, low-effectiveness stunts trying to justify their employment.

The city of Tulsa has never hired more officers than we have assignments to fill.  Like the vice unit or street crimes? You do realize that when Tulsa police had their first manpower shortage, the first thing the administration did was disband the street crimes units.  This was the same year that Tulsa had a record homicide rate and violent crime also shot up thru the roof.

High profile, low effectiveness?  I guess you mean the vice unit.  Talk to the people who live at 11th and Rockford, St. Louis, Trenton, Troost and Quincy.  Ask them how they liked having prostitutes picking up johns in front of their houses. How they liked syringes and crack pipes in their frontyards before the vice unit moved them out.  It's a constant battle but life is better down there for now. 

You can also ask the businesses along Admiral between Sheridan and Mingo how they liked the prostitutes walking up and down the street yelling at their customers to see if they had $20.00 for a sex act.  Because of street crime units and the vice unit they have moved also.

As far as your "neighbor".  Did you call internal affairs and give them the car number?  Did you ask the officer what he was doing?  Did you do anything to remedy the situation?  I know I wanna know who he is because if he is doing that , then he is cheating every other officer on the force because we have to pick up his slack.

Isnt that called "obstructing a police officer"?
I might as well just post my tag number and photo up on the squadroom wall....

I never understood why they leave their cars running, but what I'm getting from this is either he is sitting at home while on duty, or he is leaving his car running when he is off duty.  In either case it should have been reported long ago if it has been ongoing.

Of course police officers want more officers on the street. Especially the union. ;)

So do elected officials, as it's the best way to appear "tough on crime," which almost everybody supports. Rehab, mental health programs and economic development are much riskier politically.

And lastly, increased arrests beyond a certain point have little to do with prevention of most crime. The question is whether the arrests are quality. Taking actual threats off the street, like the repeat violent offenders, and not the neighborhood pot dealer.

Also, moving the problem is not solving the problem.

IMO, if we're going to have more officers, we should have more officers patrolling. Perhaps even on foot or on a bike, not in some special unit where they make more headlines but do less good. Politics at work again.

Sorry I was a little terse but I had just watched CNN show the YouTube video of the 14-year-old choked out by police in Toledo, so it sort of set the tone.

I know there are legitimate reasons for leaving a police car running, such as when an officer stops by his house to get something and needs to keep the electronics charged/cool/warm but this guy would sit inside day after day with his car running, and only leave for short trips once or twice a day.  At the time I lived there, he had goats in his backyard  ??? so I have no clue as to what deal he had going. 
As far as that being unfair to other cops, I dont know how a fellow officer could be doing that for years and they NOT know.

That officer was able to sit at home and keep his car running because no one told anyone at the police department.

You do realize that specialty units are the ones that make the "quality" arrests. They are the ones that arrest the repeat offenders not the local idiot that is driving down the street smoking a joint or the guy that decides to break the law for the first time.

Police to continue boost to detective division
 
By NICOLE MARSHALL World Staff Writer
Published: 4/10/2009  6:32 PM
Last Modified: 4/24/2009  3:28 PM


A boost in manpower at the Tulsa Police Department’s Detective Division has been extended by 30 days after officers arrested 112 repeat offenders in the past two months.

Extra officers were assigned in February to work with the warrants squad to target career criminals who are repeatedly suspected of “Part One” crimes, a national classification that includes homicide, rape, robbery, burglary, auto theft, larceny and assault.

The 112 people jailed in the first 60 days of the initiative were arrested in connection with crimes that include robbery, burglary, homicide, rape and manufacturing or trafficking controlled drugs, Deputy Chief Mark McCrory said.

“Those people had been arrested 277 times within the last three to five years on Part One crimes, which signifies to us that they are out there actively committing crimes,” McCrory said.

Many of those arrested also had also been convicted of crimes within the last three to five years.

The officers who have been temporarily assigned to the effort also are working closely with the robbery, burglary and homicide units.

McCrory said that according to detectives, those arrested in the initiative by the warrants officers were suspected in up to 2,100 Part One crimes, but there is not enough evidence to arrest them in all of the cases.

“With some of people who we arrested, we know they have done a couple hundred residential burglaries, but knowing someone has committed a crime and having someone as suspect does not always mean we have enough evidence to prosecute,” McCrory said.

Sgt. Luke Sherman, who supervises the officers involved in the initiative, said they have made several significant arrests of repeat offenders.

For example, on March 26, the officers arrested Michael Clinton, 31. Clinton has been charged with several felonies, including two counts of burglary, one count of possessing a firearm and four counts of possessing stolen property. He is being held on more than $800,000 bail, jail records show. Burglary detectives believe that Clinton is suspected of more than 200 burglaries.

On April 1, they arrested the William Cody Lee, 24, after working with narcotics officers and following him throughout the day as he allegedly bought materials and chemicals to make a meth lab. There also allegedly were two guns in the car when he was arrested.

Lee has been charged with several burglary, drug and possession of stolen property counts and is suspected of hundreds of burglaries.

Sherman also said one of the group’s biggest captures was Patrick Wayne Manning, 44, on March 9. Manning is charged with two bank robberies and is suspected in two others.

McCrory said police are working with a liaison from Tulsa County District Attorney Tim Harris’ office to file cases and get higher bails set for the repeat offenders. They also have been working with the U.S. Marshals Service and the Probation and Parole Office.

“We have been told by some patrol officers that it seems like it is freeing them up to focus on other things,” McCrory said

Not a problem until you turn the faucet on and there is no water. Not a problem until the creek rises and floods your home. Not a problem until your trash piles up. Not a problem until your house catches fire. Not a problem until the streetlights go out and you get stuck in traffic at every intersection. Reality is that I haven't spoken to an officer all year. I obey the speed limit and do my best to avoid conflict. I live in a good neighborhood and no one on my block has needed a policeman for a long time. Most of the city services we need every day. We do need an occasional ambulance or some street repairs, and weekly or daily need a trash truck, and of course, water, waste water and storm sewers. Other city workers are important, too. 

Detectives who work all sorts of cases are fine, but the folks who are just working on one media-friendly sort of case are a waste. I know sometimes they are paid for in part with federal money and that if they weren't doing that they wouldn't be there at all, which is fine, but it's not as if we need more people doggedly working vice or whatever. Warrants? Sure. It's ridiculous how people can have outstanding felony warrants for years before being picked up, but it seems like that's something everybody should be doing some of.

And just so I'm clear, I'm not knocking police in general. I have immense respect for you guys and what you do for us. I know I'm not cut out for it. The only beef I have is with the people making stupid decisions on where to place manpower and those who say that we're at the point of a public safety issue, which I disagree with. I don't think even 50 more officers would make much of a dent in anything save perhaps the traffic ticket count. We need smarter use of the resources we have, not more.

Sigh. By your logic, you are automatically more important than any other possible worker of any kind. And while that seems to be the view of almost every police officer I have ever known or worked with, it is obviously much more complicated than that, and requires a balance, which is a big part of why we elect people -- to figure out the best way to allocate limited resources to give us a safe AND healthy, educated, livable, etc. community.

Sure, if a robber is facing me down, at that moment I'd prefer a police office rather than a water repairman. However, if my water has been shut off for two days, unless the officer is also a plumber, he's useless, and in the grand scheme of things, I can live a lot longer without a police officer than I can clean water. If my child faces a life-endangering emergency, at that moment, the surgeon is the most important person -- unless it is the crew that built the street to the hospital or the ambulance driver that speeds my son there. The most important person in the world is the crossing guard the moment my 7-year-old crosses the busy street, the school nurse who hands over the inhaler during an asthma attack, or the teacher who taught him to read. Do I think a police officer is inherently more important than ANY of those people? Sorry, absolutely not.

Public safety is VERY important and a well-run police force is essential to a society, but so are all the other things I mentioned. So no, you don't get some kind of freebie pass saying you are MORE important than everyone else and entitled to keep right on sucking up the lion's share of the resources when everyone else on the team is making a sacrifice for the overall good.

Double sighhhhhhhh, Do you actually believe that the city of Tulsa employs surgeons, crossing guards, school nurses and teachers?  You should probably do some more research about who the city of Tulsa employs.

Anyway, the thing you are missing is that yes, all city services are essential and important. However, if a water main breaks and you don't have water, it is not an emergency. If the city needs public works workers, they can call them in from home if they are furloughed.  It may take a few hours but they will be there when they are needed.  If a street is damaged, the city can shut off the street and people can us the other streets to get somewhere until the street workers are called in.

If your house is on fire and there are less fireman on duty because of the furloughs, then there is an increased chance that your house may burn to the ground because they may be busy with other fires.  If you get scared and call 911 because someone is breaking into your home, or someone is trying to hurt your family, the police response may be alot longer because officers are on furlough.

I personally want enough police and fireman on duty that if I have to call them, they show up in the least amount of time possible. If my water stops at my house or a big pothole shows up on my street, then I'm okay with taking a few hours or maybe a day or two to fix.

You should do more research...the City of Tulsa does employ the school crossing guards...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070721_1_A15_spanc52771&allcom=1&sortcom=r

"Crossing guards are paid $7.55 per hour and work from three to five hours per day"

Wow. I stand corrected.  Maybe they can start taking 911 calls. 

$7.55 an hour times five hours times five days a week is over $800 a month.

So may pages of comments here, maybe I already missed this one.  The issue with the Police furlough, for me (and yes, I'm married to one, but I also live and work in corporate land) is that's fine, give them the furloughs, but that doesn't change the minimum manning levels required.  You put one officer on furlough, then you call another officer in and pay him overtime because you don't have enough officers to safely work.  It is already happening everyday, you require officers to take time off, it will only get worse.  I think there a million fixes to improve the department, but furlough for officers will not save the City a dime and I would bet a joe momma's pizza (which I had for the first time last night) it will actually cost the city more money than they are paying now

Well thought out. I'm sure every city employee is convinced that their job is quite important. At least they should. Cities can and do operate with skeleton crews at all levels, including police and fire. They are no more important than the water treatment plant employees or the sewer treatment employees. Without those two operating well you couldn't hire enough police and fire to deal with the resulting chaos.

MH, you're concerns are valid but seriously, you are not indispensable or more important than water. A good tornado knocks out electricity, water supplies and transportation and people start dying without help from criminals.

Here's my suggestion. Let the city employees vote on whether they want to eliminate jobs or furlough all employees 8 days a year. Let them also vote on which functions should be exempt from furloughs. My guess is they'll come to the same conclusion as the mayor and ifsandbuts.

I think this is an important point that should be investigated thoroughly by those in charge before deciding to furlough officers.

Is this right, furloughed police making $30/hour moonlighting?

From kotv:
After spending more than a decade heading Tulsa County's SWAT team, Travis Cartner, along with his wife, founded a private security firm two years ago. Anvis Resources provides security for apartments, businesses, and neighborhoods.
"Our door is open, they can come and apply with us, and we can put them to work," Angela Cartner said.
Moonlighting can be pretty lucrative for police. Anvis says it pays its officers as much as 30 dollars an hour.

If they can get it, pay taxes on it, and it's not on the taxpayer's dime, why would anyone care?  Firefighters and police officers moonlighting in Tulsa isn't any sort of new revelation.