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Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: rwarn17588 on February 07, 2007, 12:51:06 pm I've started a GOP thread in the interest of fair play, plus I'm genuinely interested in hearing what y'all've got to say.
My take: I think Giuliani's the front-runner. People blab about his tattered private life. But the guy exudes credibility, competence and leadership. Those are three things that people look for, big-time, in a candidate. McCain could still win the nomination, but he's going to get bloodied by this primary, perhaps fatally. I've heard a lot of people say that Huckabee is a dark horse. I'm not sure he has the fund-raising ability. Plus I'm not sure whether the country is ready to elect another former governor from Arkansas. Sorry, but I don't see the GOP's conservative electorate going for a Mormon like Romney. Remember the last Mormon in Oklahoma who tried to run for governor? He got stomped by a 2-to-1 margin by a soft-spoken Democrat. Brownback, Gingrich, Hagel and the others don't have a chance. They're either too weird, or they can't raise money or inspiration. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: Conan71 on February 07, 2007, 12:55:34 pm Thanks RW, I didn't want to have to do that twice. How nice and ironic, Dem thread started by a flaming conservative [}:)] and GOP thread started by a flaming Independent liberal [}:)]
I'll weigh in on it after I get back from lunch. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: rwarn17588 on February 07, 2007, 01:10:43 pm Now, now, Conan, don't knock us independents.
Remember, Republicans elect Republican candidates. Democrats elect Democratic candidates. Independents elect presidents. [^] Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: iplaw on February 07, 2007, 01:29:15 pm Whoever has the gravitas to run with Lieberman...
Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: waterboy on February 07, 2007, 01:54:04 pm My take here is Guiliani. McCain and Clinton would duke it out to a 50/50 with age losing to er, uh...beauty. But Guiliani could energize the party. Could it be, Gigli and Liebfraumilch in the end?
Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: iplaw on February 07, 2007, 02:20:29 pm I think the G'man is unbeatable...
Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: Conan71 on February 07, 2007, 02:23:58 pm quote: I like Rudy. Any Republican who could win election as mayor, not once but twice, of one of the most liberal cities in the world is a galvanizing figure. He also made the most of the opportunity. He got tough on crime, he got the city fiscally stable again, handled crisis with aplomb, and I think he has a lot of dignity. He's been a great public servant dating from his days as a fearless prosecutor. He's got experience in the US Attorney General's office as well. His leadership of NYC is virtually un-impeachable. He did an excellent job running a city with a population and budget of a small country. I think he has relevant experience. He's also pretty likeable. There is some criticism of his handling of 9/11 that will get trumpeted pretty loudly if he is the nominee, because there's not much else to impune him. The far right wing-nuts are going to have to get over his personal life woes. McCain bothers me and I can't really say why. My biggest problem with him is somehow he thinks he's entitled to be the next GOP nominee. He managed to piss off the far Christian right in 2000. Unfortunately, you need that faction to get the nomination. He's since patched things up with Jerry Falwell, but if someone gets into the race who wants to pander hard to the Christian faction, McCain will pay for his earlier problems with them. To his credit, he's pretty moderate and does appeal to some Democrat voters. Environmentally, he falls in line with them and he has broken with the GOP on various occasions to do what he believed was right. He is very pro-military and national security. He does talk a pretty good game, but I don't think he will get the nomination. Newt Gingrich- How Newt thinks he is still politically relevant is beyond me. He's the GOP equivalent of Al Gore- huge hypocrite and flaming narcisist. He squandered the opportunity with the "Contract For America", was the poster boy for the political excesses of Congress, and is damn lucky he was never indicted for his ethics issues. He needs to be satisfied with being a bitter ex-politician whose only political outlet these days is to write forgettable books and be a regular guest of GOP propagandists as a "political analyst". Romney, like Rudy, could have really good general election appeal. To be a Republican Governor in a state that heavily supports Democrat candidates you have to be moderate. His entire political career is as a failed challenger to Ted Kennedy for Senate and a one term Governor. Other than that, he did a sterling job as CEO of the Winter Olympics in SLC which some could say is relevant by winding up with an event was projected to lose tons of money and wound up with a healthy profit. He's reminiscent of the stereotypical eastern Episcopal-born with a silver-spoon-Republican pedigree. Yet he's a Mormon and that is percieved to be his biggest liablity. He may not be conservative enough to please the right wingers in the party. I don't know enough about Huckabee yet to comment on him. I had never heard of Brownback until a few months ago, and Hagel is far too moderate to ever make it through the primaries, personally, I don't think he will run. He is either a liberal sympathizer or just a maverick. He will get slaughtered by McCain in the primaries for his stance on the war. In fact, those two guys may just annhilate each other and leave it wide open for Rudy. As far as Istook, either A) his ego was so big that he thought he could move back to Oklahoma and that people would fall all over themselves to elect him governor B) He figured running for governor against such a popular incumbent was a graceful way to retire, or C) he didn't read the newspapers and hear that Henry was doing a bang-up job. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: aoxamaxoa on February 07, 2007, 02:38:15 pm quote: I am certain you approve of his ethical nature..... he's more of a ladies man than Clinton who you bash because of Monica. Double standard indeed. Rudy was in the worst place at the best time. A real opportunist. Has the country ever elected a mayor to President? Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: tim huntzinger on February 07, 2007, 05:21:30 pm Here is one for you: Anti-war Texas Congressman Ron Paul (http://"http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/120107ronpaul.htm").
Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: okiebybirth on February 07, 2007, 06:47:34 pm quote: Therein lies the problem with voting Republican. Anybody that gets the vote of the Christianists is someone who should be avoided at all costs. Hopefully the Republican party will quit being a religious party sometime in the future and go back to it's roots of being the party of fiscal responsibility and personal freedoms. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: USRufnex on February 08, 2007, 01:25:38 am quote: In the general election, maybe... But Guiliani in the Republican primaries?... not a snowball's chance in.... (http://212.227.92.102/img/16797/pd1091276_s.jpg) Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: iplaw on February 08, 2007, 08:54:55 am quote: Generalize much? I suppose that makes the democratic party the party of Michael Newdow... and what the hell is a "christianists" anyway? Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: Conan71 on February 08, 2007, 09:21:27 am quote: Why do you think Rudy won't make it out of the primaries? If it's the affair deal, I don't think the Christian right is going to make that big a deal of it. Stance on abortion? The other night on H & C he said he personally is against abortion, and doesn't like it, but believes it's up to a woman's conscience. He doesn't believe the government should limit that choice. That was one thing he said that appealed to me. I don't believe our government should legislate morality. Abortion is a dead issue anyhow. It's not been repealed now through seven administrations, and I don't see it being repealed in the future. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: okiebybirth on February 08, 2007, 09:21:34 am quote: christianist - A member of the Christian faith who seeks to use a religion of peace and tolerance for political and personal gain. I don't see any generalization there. I didn't label all Republicans as Christianists, but I will not ever vote for a Republican who bows at their altar. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: iplaw on February 08, 2007, 11:14:42 am quote: You must be an incredible mind reader to determine such things about people. I'm guessing with you, there's no difference between that and a person seeking political and personal gain who happens to be a christian... quote: Of course not, you're the one generalizing, why would you? Again, how would you know if they were...when was the last time you saw a politician arm in arm with a religious leader...unless you count Al Sharpton? Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: tim huntzinger on February 08, 2007, 12:39:16 pm Hmmm here is a word for you: EVANGELICULT!
Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: iplaw on February 08, 2007, 01:13:22 pm quote: Okay... Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: okiebybirth on February 08, 2007, 02:38:53 pm quote: Of course I see a difference there: One puts his hand on the bible and swears to uphold the constitution; And the Christianist puts his hand on the constitution and swears to uphold the bible. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: iplaw on February 08, 2007, 02:43:41 pm quote: And who might these Eeeeviiile men be? I don't know of any...or are you just shadow-boxing? Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: USRufnex on February 09, 2007, 12:33:19 am quote: I'll make my answer simple, so that even Oklahoma Republicans can understand it: The abortion issue will wound Rudy Guiliani. The gun control issue will kill Rudy Guiliani. The gay rights issue will bury Rudy Guiliani. Still can't resist posting a link: http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/471189p-396520c.html quote: Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: iplaw on February 09, 2007, 08:13:37 am The Democrats angle will be Rudi's stance on social issues because they know if he does get the nomination their candidate, whoever it is, is toast.
Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: tim huntzinger on February 09, 2007, 09:04:29 am Rudy is addressing his social stances by declaring that he will place conservative judges like Thomas and Scalia on the bench.
Romney is addressing his religion by having people understand that one may vote for someone because of shared values, not necessarily shared religion. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: Conan71 on February 09, 2007, 09:30:52 am Sooner or later, abortion needs to quit being a presidential campaign issue. IMO, with Roe V. Wade staying pretty much in tact for 34 years now, it's nothing more than a litmus test for primary candidates.
Both Guiliani and Romney are pro-choice. I had heard yesterday that Romney believes abortion needs to stay legal so that women can have safe health care if they make the personal choice to terminate a pregnancy. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: iplaw on February 09, 2007, 09:46:09 am But it HAS to be an issue Conan! We're all fundamentalist robots have you forgotten? If it's an issue not then Rudi is a shoe-in and Mangina is finished.
Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: RecycleMichael on February 09, 2007, 10:07:47 am Rudy Guliani has no chance at winning a republican primary.
First, he is pro-choice. How many Republican campaign insiders are pro-choice? Secondly, his past is filled with scandal and infidelity. Remember, he was Bush's nominee to lead the newly created Department of Homeland Security, but withdrew after he admitted extra-marital affairs. Remember the toxic air issues after the Twin Towers came down? Rudy was compliant in hiding the facts causing continuing health issues thousands of residents and rescue workers. Remember the Brooklyn museum exhibit that Rudy tried to stop funding for because of nudity? The courts ruled against him and he looked more prudish than John Ashcroft. Remember the complaints of abuse by police ordered by Guliani to cleanup Times Square? Face it. Rudy Guliani has more baggage than Hilary Clinton. I doubt either of them can win, but he won't make it past the first round. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: tim huntzinger on February 09, 2007, 10:12:29 am It is a tough row to how but it can be done. I would sell Rudy as a tough-on-crime decision-maker who gets things done.
Again, his strategery will deflect his pro-abortion stance with the promise of conservative jurists. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: okiebybirth on February 09, 2007, 10:12:40 am quote: Hmm.. Don't know a Christianist? Here's a example to help you: "Stability in Iraq ultimately depends on spreading the message of Jesus Christ, the message of peace on earth, good will towards men. Everything depends on everyone learning about the birth of the Savior." - Rep. Robin Hayes (R-NC) Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: iplaw on February 09, 2007, 10:12:48 am quote: Non-issue. quote: We've had a philanderer in the oval orifice before, non-issue. quote: I think you're the only one who knows/cares about this issue. Doubt it will even be raised. quote: Did he punch someone on the playground in fourth grade? If so, that may be more of an issue than this. quote: See above. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: RecycleMichael on February 09, 2007, 10:28:17 am Quote We've had a philanderer in the oval orifice before, non-issue. Quote But republicans were outraged by extra-marital affairs! Don't tell me that there is a double standard! Go ahead and make Rudy the nominee, the republicans are going to lose the White House in two years anyway. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: iplaw on February 09, 2007, 10:33:38 am quote: In politics...never! I call it the "I voted for it, before I voted against it" axiom. If you haven't flip floped at least 3 times on an issue the politician isn't trying hard enough. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: aoxamaxoa on February 09, 2007, 11:29:57 am He REALLY needs to shut up!
"Rightwing warrior Falwell has eyes on 2008" http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2007-02-08T164735Z_01_N08195268_RTRUKOC_0_US-USA-FALWELL.xml&WTmodLoc=USNewsHome_C2_domesticNews-3 By a long road back Falwell was referring to his youth in the 1930s and 1940s -- a period he feels brought out the best in a strong nation that adhered to "old fashioned values". What an idiot.... Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: okiebybirth on February 09, 2007, 03:44:40 pm Michael Savage mulls presidential run:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/2/5/161823.shtml And here: http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=79326 Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: Conan71 on February 09, 2007, 04:32:25 pm quote: Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: aoxamaxoa on February 12, 2007, 01:09:37 pm Was his cousin the wife he was cheating on or was it Donna Hanover? I had no idea his life was such a soap opera. Maybe that's why his team thinks he has a chance in the South. As a political observer, the Rudy candidacy should provide high comedy. It won't last halfway through the primaries.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0212072giuliani1.html Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: RecycleMichael on February 12, 2007, 01:56:18 pm I think marrying your cousin for twelve years, then getting an annullment is weird. Dating your secretary is fairly common, but frowned upon as well.
Rudy, the unconventional candidate. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: rwarn17588 on February 12, 2007, 02:11:20 pm Jerry Lee Lewis did it.
Um, never mind. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: iplaw on February 13, 2007, 09:06:42 am Here is a good link from thesmokinggun. It was a paper written back in 1993 when Giuliani was running against Dinkins.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0212072giuliani1.html All of these so-called "big issues" that have been discussed apparently weren't such a big factor in that race. In spite of all theses issues he was still elected to office in a heavily democratic city. I think the very fact that democrats are already trying to discredit him makes him the ideal candidate, as they know it would be disaster for their party if he makes it as the nominee. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: aoxamaxoa on February 13, 2007, 12:09:01 pm quote: Repost!Was his cousin the wife he was cheating on or was it Donna Hanover? I had no idea his life was such a soap opera. Maybe that's why his team thinks he has a chance in the South. As a political observer, the Rudy candidacy should provide high comedy. It won't last halfway through the primaries. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0212072giuliani1.html Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: rwarn17588 on February 13, 2007, 01:12:19 pm There are plenty of evangelist voters and conservative Republicans who are coming after Giuliani, too, because of his pro-choice stance and other moderate views.
Face it -- the knives are coming from all sides. Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: iplaw on February 13, 2007, 01:30:01 pm They may be, but the fact is, it's just more of the same for him. Been there, done that, and won, in one of the most liberal cities in the US.
Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: rwarn17588 on February 13, 2007, 01:41:34 pm Personally, I wouldn't object at all if he got the GOP nomination. He's a quality candidate.
Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: iplaw on February 13, 2007, 01:43:59 pm I'd actually like to see someone who isn't a Bush, Clinton or someone who worked in either administration...
Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: rwarn17588 on February 13, 2007, 01:45:16 pm You have misgivings about dynastic presidencies, too, eh?
Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: Conan71 on February 13, 2007, 01:51:34 pm I hope the evangelicals can get over themselves long enough to recognize a great leader when they see one.
Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: rwarn17588 on February 13, 2007, 02:15:23 pm Do you think they honestly will, Conan?
Banning abortion, creationism, preventing gay marriage, et al, are about the only things many evangelists seem to care about. Or will pragmatism finally carry the day for Giuliani and his party? Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: aoxamaxoa on February 13, 2007, 02:24:02 pm The republicans have nothing dynamic coming our way in 2008.
"Hang it up. See what tomorrow brings...." Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: RecycleMichael on February 18, 2007, 12:44:03 pm Check out this video of Rudy Guliani wearing a wig and a dress and getting kissed by Donald Trump.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IrE6FMpai8 Tell me again how Rudy can win a republican primary in a conservative state? Does he have the endorsement of Drag Queens of Iowa? Title: 2008 Republican contenders Post by: tim huntzinger on February 19, 2007, 07:47:49 am Rudy is a decisive executive who will appoint conservative justices, he is pro-law enforcement and has a great track record.
An observation from I forget where: Is it not strange that the only GOP candidate without having multiple wives is the Mormon? |