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Non-Tulsa Discussions => Chat and Advice => Topic started by: patric on September 13, 2012, 11:13:45 am



Title: City Servers Hacked
Post by: patric on September 13, 2012, 11:13:45 am
City of Tulsa authorities have learned information on one of the city’s computer servers was targeted by an unknown source.

Technology officers with the City have taken the websites temporarily offline while they work to identify the extent and nature of the incident.


http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/City-of-Tulsa-websites-down-after-server-attack/73fGp6PGBkilHVWT1b0hYw.cspx


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: sgrizzle on September 13, 2012, 11:53:09 am
City of Tulsa authorities have learned information on one of the city’s computer servers was targeted by an unknown source.

Technology officers with the City have taken the websites temporarily offline while they work to identify the extent and nature of the incident.


http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/City-of-Tulsa-websites-down-after-server-attack/73fGp6PGBkilHVWT1b0hYw.cspx

In other news, City of Tulsa Technology Officers blissfully unaware of attacks during other 364 days of the year.

P.S. Quit using IIS


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Hoss on September 13, 2012, 12:11:35 pm
In other news, City of Tulsa Technology Officers blissfully unaware of attacks during other 364 days of the year.

P.S. Quit using IIS

Apache fanboi

 ;D


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Townsend on September 14, 2012, 10:42:58 pm
Apache fanboi

 ;D

Ehneek chok


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: sgrizzle on September 16, 2012, 11:48:42 am
It appears from the time the city's websites have been down

1. They weren't just targeted, they were completely hacked
2. They don't have good backups


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: nathanm on September 16, 2012, 04:39:26 pm
Or they just haven't figured out the attack vector yet.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Gaspar on September 17, 2012, 08:56:26 am
In other news, City of Tulsa Technology Officers blissfully unaware of attacks during other 364 days of the year.

P.S. Quit using IIS

+1


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Townsend on September 19, 2012, 10:28:56 am

City of Tulsa residents notified by letter of website hacking threat to personal information

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/city-of-tulsa-residents-notified-by-letter-of-website-hacking-threat-to-personal-information (http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/city-of-tulsa-residents-notified-by-letter-of-website-hacking-threat-to-personal-information)

Quote
TULSA - A week after the City of Tulsa's website was hacked, city officials are notifying residents of the potential threat to their personal information.

There was an attempt to access one of the city's computer servers, which hosts the city's website.

Officials say the investigation thus far indicates attempts to access data were "most likely unsuccessful," though the city took the site offline as a precaution while the investigation was launched.

Letters were mailed Tuesday to all individuals whose information was potentially accessed.  These people including online job applicants and citizens who reported crimes to the police department through the website.

The letters contain Web links and information to credit monitoring agencies and consumer protection information.

City officials have established a resource center to take calls and respond to email to those who received the letters.

"Like numerous cities across the country, the City of Tulsa experiences and successfully repels attempts to access IT infrastructure every day," read the statement.  "The City of Tulsa IT officials regret the inconvenience this may cause and they are implementing a comprehensive assessment of the City servers and IT infrastructure to prevent unauthorized access and to restore the full website."

A criminal investigation is under way and during the extent of the investigation officials say no other details will be made available.


Read more: http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/city-of-tulsa-residents-notified-by-letter-of-website-hacking-threat-to-personal-information#ixzz26vxeLa3R


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: nathanm on September 19, 2012, 10:31:16 am
Most likely? Did they not have centralized logging or something?


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: patric on September 20, 2012, 02:22:27 pm
Most likely? Did they not have centralized logging or something?

Seems the city may have been bleeding data, despite assurances to the contrary.  

Those potentially affected include online job applicants and residents who reported crimes to the police through the city's website in the last 10 years.



Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: JCnOwasso on September 25, 2012, 08:03:41 am
I received a letter.  Because I submitted a resume about 6 years ago.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: sgrizzle on September 25, 2012, 06:49:20 pm
I received a letter.  Because I submitted a resume about 6 years ago.

Serves you right.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: carltonplace on September 26, 2012, 07:40:07 am
I received a letter.  Because I submitted a resume about 6 years ago.

Sounds like they need a new server admin. You might get an offer in the next ten years if you aren't qualified or are a friend of the mayor.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: rdj on September 26, 2012, 07:41:40 am
The city website is still down.  What the heck?


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Hoss on September 26, 2012, 07:43:37 am
Sounds like they need a new server admin. You might get an offer in the next ten years if you aren't qualified or are a friend of the mayor.

Or, if you can prove that your cellphone can spontaneously combust...


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Townsend on September 26, 2012, 07:52:09 am
The wife received a letter as well from city contact 5 or six years ago.

The letter advises to contact one of three credit agencies to file for a fraud alert.  3 numbers were provided.

Experian's prompts were inactive so she moved to the next one.  Equifax has an automated system which files it for you but then sends you to an outsourced group to go over suggestions for other steps you might take.  She was unable to understand the first gentleman so she put him on speaker.  I was unable to understand him either and asked to speak with someone else.  His "supervisor" came on and she had a thicker accent.  I asked if I could speak to someone easier to understand and she got very angry.  I explained it was important to us to be sure to understand every word.    She transferred us to a dead line.

So that's fun.

The city of Tulsa line on the letter was unmanned.

I monitor our credit reports once a year.  I'm hoping the report she filed on the automated system was effective but I'll follow up to make sure.

Thanks City of Tulsa.  You've proven once again to be a pain in the exit.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: nathanm on September 26, 2012, 09:38:39 am
The city website is still down.  What the heck?

What the heck indeed. You'd think they could at least get the basic stuff up, even without all the fancy web apps and forms and whatever. That they were collecting information on their website (and storing it on the web server!) sufficient to create a risk of identity theft is just bizarre to me. The competence level is clearly extremely high in that organization.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Townsend on October 01, 2012, 02:33:35 pm
local fox tweet:

Quote
City website not hacked, no personal information taken, say city officials Monday. $20K spent on mailings to warn residents.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: nathanm on October 01, 2012, 02:50:55 pm
Well, I commend them on their abundance of caution.  :P


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Townsend on October 01, 2012, 02:52:39 pm
City Of Tulsa Website 'Hack' Was Only A Test

http://www.newson6.com/story/19687044/city-of-tulsa-website-hack-was-only-a-test (http://www.newson6.com/story/19687044/city-of-tulsa-website-hack-was-only-a-test)

Quote
TULSA, Oklahoma - The City of Tulsa has confirmed that no personal information was compromised in a recent website hack. In fact, what they thought was a security breach was actually a test by a third-party firm hired by the City's Internet technology department.
"We had to treat this like a cyber-attack because every indication initially pointed to an attack," said City Manager Jim Twombly.

The third-party consultant had been hired to perform an assessment of the city's network for vulnerabilities. The firm used an unfamiliar testing procedure that was not immediately discovered, according to a City of Tulsa news release.

Through the testing procedure, the IT department was able to further secure and protect the system, servers and web users, the release states, with no compromise of customers' personal information.


"The good news is that we can now confirm that no personal information was accessed by an unauthorized source," said Tulsa Mayor Dewey Bartlett.

"In addition, we have used this opportunity to enhance our network security and strengthen processes that we would use to identify potential breaches."

The incident did cost the City about $20,000 for a mass mailing warning about 90,000 customers.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: nathanm on October 01, 2012, 02:56:01 pm
And now I commend them for their inability to communicate within their own department.  ::)


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Conan71 on October 01, 2012, 03:18:22 pm
Per the Whirled:

Quote
The city of Tulsa's Web site wasn't hacked after all, officials revealed Monday.

A third-party firm that periodically tests the city's networks used an "unfamiliar testing procedure" last month that city Information Technology personnel initially misinterpreted as an unknown breach, according to a city statement.

The city's Web site was offline for more than two weeks as an investigation was conducted and additional security measures were taken. Some functions, such as the public meeting agenda postings, are still not working.

City officials didn't realize it was the firm, Utah-based Security Metrics, until after 90,000 letters were sent to people who had applied for city jobs or made crime reports online warning them that their personal identification may have been accessed.

The mailing cost $20,000, officials said.

"We are dedicated to the security and protection of our employees and citizens first," City Manager Jim Twombly said.

"We had to treat this like a cyber-attack because every indication initially pointed to an attack."

Based on the best information available at the time, officials said, the city proceeded with the mailing to comply with state notification laws.

The firm has since confirmed that no personal identification was accessed in its testing procedure.

The city's KPMG efficiency study has recommended a complete review of the IT organization, including processes, practices an infrastructure.

Mayor Dewey Bartlett said that, as a result of this situation, he will expedite a request for proposals to get that review done.

"We have used this opportunity to enhance our network security and strengthen processes that we would use to identify potential breaches," he said.


Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20121001_11_0_Thecit522369


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Gaspar on October 01, 2012, 03:39:39 pm
There are currently 205 people employed by the IT department for the city.  The total salary amount we pay these folks is $10,769,342.00.

One of those people hired Security Metrics to test and maintain PCI compliance for the cite, and pays them every year to do so.  Chances are, because of the size of the city's bandwidth, they may even have an appliance supplied by Security Metrics.  Security Metrics also supplies them with a certificate of PCI compliance based on their results.  I can't for the life of me understand how someone could be unaware of this?

You would think, if there was evidence of "unauthorized access" it would be rather simple to reference back to the source.  Ok. . .it might take 10 minutes.

Somewhere in a building downtown, there is a moron collecting a city paycheck.

(http://images.elephantjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/ashleymbhs6.edublogs.org-Disney-Chicken-Little-Sky-Falling1.jpg)

 


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: sgrizzle on October 01, 2012, 03:48:56 pm
(http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/PicardDoubleFacepalm-1.jpg)


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Gaspar on October 01, 2012, 03:54:13 pm
It must have been really hard to track down in the cities server room.
(http://www.tiger24.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/20110516-064520.jpg)


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Townsend on October 01, 2012, 04:28:29 pm
City IT Director Placed on Leave

http://kwgs.com/post/city-it-director-placed-leave (http://kwgs.com/post/city-it-director-placed-leave)

Quote
Mayor Dewey Bartlett said today that Chief Information Officer Tom Golliver has been placed on administrative leave with pay. The circumstances surrounding this action are related to a personnel issue and no further comment will be available.
 
Bartlett has named Tulsa Police Department Captain Jonathan Brooks as interim director of the Information Technology Department.
 
“Captain Brooks is a proven, experienced and successful manager with the Tulsa Police Department. He is a well-respected leader who can assist with the organizational demands of I.T. until this personnel issue is resolved,” Bartlett said. “He has vast knowledge and training in safety and security practices that will benefit I.T. as its staff maneuvers the complexities of the technical systems, networks and connections with the public.”

O o


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Hoss on October 01, 2012, 04:29:54 pm
City IT Director Placed on Leave

http://kwgs.com/post/city-it-director-placed-leave (http://kwgs.com/post/city-it-director-placed-leave)

O o

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40[/youtube]


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: sgrizzle on October 01, 2012, 04:36:49 pm
How did you not post this Hoss?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uoy8q3Xld9w&feature=endscreen[/youtube]


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: godboko71 on October 01, 2012, 05:06:30 pm
I am speechless, a director of IT needs to be more then just a good manager... Who is running this trainwreck...


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: sgrizzle on October 01, 2012, 05:36:13 pm
I am speechless, a director of IT needs to be more then just a good manager... Who is running this trainwreck...

What I heard is that the guy made close to $200k for a government job, hired off of Williams I think. Veteran of the Williams<->Worldcom dotcom overpay cycle before the bust and IT people started being paid based on talent.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Hoss on October 01, 2012, 05:54:41 pm
What I heard is that the guy made close to $200k for a government job, hired off of Williams I think. Veteran of the Williams<->Worldcom dotcom overpay cycle before the bust and IT people started being paid based on talent.

TW says about $140k a year for his current position..and his last job was with Level 3.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: sgrizzle on October 01, 2012, 06:02:42 pm
TW says about $140k a year for his current position..and his last job was with Level 3.

I was told he has a bonus above his salary paid for with grant money.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Hoss on October 01, 2012, 07:02:24 pm
I was told he has a bonus above his salary paid for with grant money.

Hope that wasn't a performance bonus.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: tulsa_fan on October 01, 2012, 10:11:43 pm
Sorry, can't believe putting a police captain in that position even for an interim deal shows any more smarts than this entire fiasco


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Hoss on October 01, 2012, 10:47:07 pm
Sorry, can't believe putting a police captain in that position even for an interim deal shows any more smarts than this entire fiasco

Remember, we are talking about the CoT...


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: dbacks fan on October 02, 2012, 01:15:40 am
Just my $.10 (inflation adjusted) the city gov't I worked for, in ten years the total down time of the web servers, or any servers for that fact, may have added up to a total of 48 hours, and the longest down time we had was about 4.5 hours between 1am and 5am and that was because we were replacing the UPS system in the server room. We also "stress tested" our system, including the PD system on a quarterly basis, and had outside contractors do actual hack attempts as a varification of security, and never suffered any thing like this. We did have an issue with an IVR server for Parks & Rec that took a couple of weeks to resolve, but that was during a trial "turn up" period and it turned out to be the dialogic card for the phone lines had out of box issues.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Gaspar on October 02, 2012, 06:24:39 am
I know at least 3 people in Tulsa looking for jobs who have the experience and certifications to run that department.  It's not like their's a lack of tallent out there.

By announcing this "interim" situation they have just alerted every recruiter in the state to start locking down available candidates. They will likely have to hire through a recruiter now and pay 3x as much, or (more likely) select lesser certified candidate for the top pay rate.  Of course that may not be all bad, because at least then they can "test-drive" some CIOs and find one that works before permanently putting them on payroll.

I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around how they could make such a simple mistake.  Just to figure out if there was something I may have overlooked, I had to run it by our engineers and. . .well, they were stumped.
(http://frothygirlz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/disbelief.png)
(http://www.dustofwarmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Painful-Disbelief-615x300.jpg)
(http://popping.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/shock1.jpg)


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: zstyles on October 02, 2012, 07:48:35 am
smile happens....this was just more public...I don't think the guy should lose his job..but it is a wake up call to step it up...but again, who knows what else went on..


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Conan71 on October 02, 2012, 08:14:17 am
smile happens....this was just more public...I don't think the guy should lose his job..but it is a wake up call to step it up...but again, who knows what else went on..

Dude, he had two weeks to figure it out and only after the city incurred an additional $20,000 in expenses due to a mass mailing to notify 90,000 people that their personal information may have been compromised.  Never mind whatever cost and donkey pain those people have gone through assuring they have not become a victim of identity theft.  That's ridiculous.

The CIO needs to be toast.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: sgrizzle on October 02, 2012, 08:28:50 am
Just my $.10 (inflation adjusted) the city gov't I worked for, in ten years the total down time of the web servers, or any servers for that fact, may have added up to a total of 48 hours, and the longest down time we had was about 4.5 hours between 1am and 5am and that was because we were replacing the UPS system in the server room. We also "stress tested" our system, including the PD system on a quarterly basis, and had outside contractors do actual hack attempts as a varification of security, and never suffered any thing like this. We did have an issue with an IVR server for Parks & Rec that took a couple of weeks to resolve, but that was during a trial "turn up" period and it turned out to be the dialogic card for the phone lines had out of box issues.

That is a good number for downtime and about every major entity should be able to claim that.

P.S. Dialogic cards are a necessary evil.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Gaspar on October 02, 2012, 08:48:01 am
smile happens....this was just more public...I don't think the guy should lose his job..but it is a wake up call to step it up...but again, who knows what else went on..

We have a couple hundred clients who's networks we are responsible for.  Every year, we have a handfull that get attacked in one way or another. We typically know immediately, and shut down the attack before any damage is done.  Sometimes the attacks come from a less secure angle of the network or are perpetrated internally.  In those cases we may not know immediately and have to do a little forensics to finger the perp.  Either way, it takes only a few minutes to map the attack and determine if it's threat related or something else. 

The company the city was using for their PCI compliance is widely used by companies all over the country.  Their connection and monitoring of the server(s) is very obvious and immediately identifiable.  In most cases, they actually supply a small appliance that allows them to monitor CC transaction traffic, tokinization and encryption.  The appliance has it's own address on the server and a large logo on the front of it. 

If the IT department was alarmed by an "intrusion" and incapable of determining the nature of that intrusion, they are very highly skilled in ineptitude. If there existed a list of reasons for firing the CIO of a company, I'm pretty sure this would register at the top of that list.

(http://skepticalteacher.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/godzilla-facepalm.jpg)


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: nathanm on October 02, 2012, 12:38:19 pm
P.S. Dialogic cards are a necessary evil.

No, Dialogic cards are an evil thing that companies who want to lock you in to their stupid proprietary software use. They haven't been necessary since the late 90s. These days you can run a busy IVR on a freakin' router if you want to. And I don't mean that all jokey-jokey. You can. You shouldn't, but you can.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: carltonplace on October 02, 2012, 01:00:34 pm
Is this the same City IT department that designs and maintains this awesome website?

http://cityoftulsa.org/ (http://cityoftulsa.org/)



Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Conan71 on October 02, 2012, 01:42:58 pm
No, Dialogic cards are an evil thing that companies who want to lock you in to their stupid proprietary software use. They haven't been necessary since the late 90s. These days you can run a busy IVR on a freakin' router if you want to. And I don't mean that all jokey-jokey. You can. You shouldn't, but you can.

Grizzle, I believe you have gotten the IT geek smack down.

(http://www.sofreshandsogreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cliff-clavin-mailman.jpg)


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: sgrizzle on October 02, 2012, 01:44:56 pm
Grizzle, I believe you have gotten the IT geek smack down.

(http://www.sofreshandsogreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cliff-clavin-mailman.jpg)

No, that is more like a compatriot lamenting. He's right that people shouldn't be using them but application vendors everywhere ask for them.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: patric on October 02, 2012, 10:32:05 pm
Three weeks after the City of Tulsa's IT department thought the city's Web site had been hacked, the city has spent roughly $45,000 to fix the problem that didn't exist...
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Tulsans-upset-over-IT-hacking-blunder-and-costs/Ga8LKaV2Bk-7YbXBRBYuNA.cspx

But the alleged "hacker" was actually a consulting firm the city hired a year and a half ago to periodically scan the city's Web site looking for holes that hackers could find. In this case, the company found the hole.
...the city spent close to $20,000 mailing out 90,000 letters alerting people their information might have been stolen.
It also spent another $25,000 hiring an outside consulting firm to help fix the problem and get the site back up and operating.

The City of Tulsa is also looking to hire another outside consulting firm to help restructure the IT department to make sure it runs more efficiently and that this kind of thing doesn't happen again.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: sgrizzle on October 03, 2012, 07:44:20 am
The City of Tulsa is also looking to hire another outside consulting firm to help restructure the IT department to make sure it runs more efficiently and that this kind of thing doesn't happen again.

I'll do it for free, and I'm not meaning that maliciously.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Townsend on October 03, 2012, 08:32:23 am
I'll do it for free, and I'm not meaning that maliciously.

It will take them years to check the box Scott.  I, as a tax payer, appreciate your offer though.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Conan71 on October 03, 2012, 08:56:04 am
How many people are on IT payroll?

And it took how long to figure this CF out?


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: patric on October 03, 2012, 08:56:32 am
I'll do it for free, and I'm not meaning that maliciously.

The city has accepted free professional services in the past, I'd let Blake know.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Gaspar on October 03, 2012, 08:59:16 am
I'll do it for free, and I'm not meaning that maliciously.

The city does not do free.  

If you were to say, "I will do it for $8,000," you'd have a better chance.


Just sayin.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: patric on October 03, 2012, 09:06:11 am
The city does not do free.  
If you were to say, "I will do it for $8,000," you'd have a better chance.
Just sayin.


Cough..Cough..Clark Brewster...Cough...


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: sgrizzle on October 03, 2012, 09:54:49 am
The city does not do free.  

If you were to say, "I will do it for $8,000," you'd have a better chance.


Just sayin.

Fine. I'll charge $1


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Townsend on October 03, 2012, 09:57:05 am
Fine. I'll charge $1


Send them this with your $1 offer.

(http://www.iconlet.com/icons/defaulticon/256x256/check-box.png)

That way they may get the idea.

(inside joke btw)


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: sgrizzle on October 03, 2012, 10:04:00 am
Send them this with your $1 offer.

(http://www.iconlet.com/icons/defaulticon/256x256/check-box.png)

That way they may get the idea.

(inside joke btw)

image didn't work, but yeah.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Townsend on October 03, 2012, 10:14:57 am
TW FB post:

Quote
City leaders are launching an intensive review of the Information Technology Department in the wake of an apparent website hacking that turned out not to be a security breach.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: patric on October 03, 2012, 10:44:39 am
The city does not do free.

Actually I think there is a lot of truth in that.
There have been many times when a committee or group has been taken aback when consulting with me on municipal lighting because I do not charge or represent a vendor of some sort.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Gaspar on October 03, 2012, 01:00:52 pm
Actually I think there is a lot of truth in that.
There have been many times when a committee or group has been taken aback when consulting with me on municipal lighting because I do not charge or represent a vendor of some sort.

When you don't charge a fee, they question your motives and the value of your advice (because you have established that it has no value).  If you cause them to make a mistake that reflects badly on them, it looks even worse especially when public believes they took your advice over better advice simply because it was free.

Excuse my Randian nature, but offering something for nothing diminishes the general market value and the perceived quality of the product or service that you offer.  Over time both the product and the supplier become marginalized.



Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Conan71 on October 03, 2012, 01:47:28 pm
When you don't charge a fee, they question your motives and the value of your advice (because you have established that it has no value).  If you cause them to make a mistake that reflects badly on them, it looks even worse especially when public believes they took your advice over better advice simply because it was free.

Excuse my Randian nature, but offering something for nothing diminishes the general market value and the perceived quality of the product or service that you offer.  Over time both the product and the supplier become marginalized.



That's why you can leave a clothes dryer on the curb with a "free" sign on it and it will be there for days.

Put a price tag of $50 on it and you can count on someone stealing it as soon as the sun goes down or your car leaves the driveway.

There's no perceived value when the cost is nothing.  Attach a price to it and suddenly it has value.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Gaspar on October 03, 2012, 01:56:30 pm
That's why you can leave a clothes dryer on the curb with a "free" sign on it and it will be there for days.

Put a price tag of $50 on it and you can count on someone stealing it as soon as the sun goes down or your car leaves the driveway.

There's no perceived value when the cost is nothing.  Attach a price to it and suddenly it has value.

First thing I tell my prospective clients is that my product is one of the most expensive on the market.  Then all I have to do is prove it's value.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: RecycleMichael on October 03, 2012, 02:06:17 pm
I charge by the pound.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Gaspar on October 03, 2012, 02:08:31 pm
I charge by the pound.

Yeah, but that's high quality stuff!


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Gaspar on October 03, 2012, 02:50:31 pm
_______________________________________________________________________________

The dollar tree is at the airport where millions of dollars of services and equipment are leased for a dollar a year.
Try B.A. and clean off your drive so the dump truck can dump a load of those green-backs.



My translator is broken.  Anyone got a bead on this?


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: nathanm on October 03, 2012, 02:51:30 pm
And it took how long to figure this CF out?

The problem isn't stupidity, it's a lack of communication (or understanding) between the security consultant and the IT department. Whose fault that is, I can't say, but I've always known security consultants to be very clear about what they're going to do and very quick about notifying you what they've done after they've done it, precisely to prevent situations such as this.



Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: Townsend on October 03, 2012, 02:58:54 pm
My translator is broken.  Anyone got a bead on this?

It's from the musical "Grease".

We go together Like rama lama lama ka dinga da dinga dong

Remembered forever

The dollar tree is at the airport where millions of dollars of services and equipment are leased for a dollar a year.
Try B.A. and clean off your drive so the dump truck can dump a load of those green-backs.

As shoobop sha wadda wadda yippity boom de boom
Chang chang changitty chang shoobop
That's the way it should be, wha oooh, yeah


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: shadows on October 11, 2012, 09:27:11 pm
Naw, there was no hacking done to the city computers.  It all reflects on the high priced surveys of city departments that always come back with “to much top heavy management”. Even ex-councilors seem to grasp the over burden being carried by working poor citizens.  They missed the appraisal of  the former city hall by 90%.  Now the bond rating on ability to pay is less the AAA.   -AAA means there could be troubled waters ahead.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: rdj on October 12, 2012, 01:13:46 pm
Naw, there was no hacking done to the city computers.  It all reflects on the high priced surveys of city departments that always come back with “to much top heavy management”. Even ex-councilors seem to grasp the over burden being carried by working poor citizens.  They missed the appraisal of  the former city hall by 90%.  Now the bond rating on ability to pay is less the AAA.   -AAA means there could be troubled waters ahead.


The last bond issue by the city of Tulsa in March of this year received a Aa1 from Moody's.  That is one step down from the best.  It is a very small degree of difference from AAA.  Now the public facilities authority did receive a Aa2.  Which is still two steps removed from the top and still considered a high grade.  In comparison Moody's rates JPM as A2 which would be five steps from the top.


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: patric on November 23, 2012, 12:25:49 pm
Got to be careful when you discover some website's poor security:

Expose Blatant Security Hole From AT&T... Face Five Years In Jail
from the security-through-threat-of-intimidation dept

A few years ago, we wrote about some hackers who exposed a really basic security flaw in AT&T's setup for iPad users. Basically, if you fed an ID to a website, it would return the email address of the account. And, on top of that, AT&T appeared to hand out the IDs in numerical order, so it was easy to just run through a bunch of IDs in order and collect a ton of users' info. And that's what these hackers did -- collecting a variety of emails including the President of News Corp., the CEO of Dow Jones and Mayor Bloomberg in New York. They got lots of other government officials as well: "Rahm Emanuel and staffers in the Senate, House of Representatives, Department of Justice, NASA, Department of Homeland Security, FAA, FCC, and National Institute of Health, among others."

This seemed like a pretty massive flaw in the design of the system by AT&T... but of course, all of the blame is falling on the guys who exposed the hole. It seems noteworthy that the pair of hackers who exposed this are known for trollish online behavior, and Andrew Auernheimer, who goes by the name weev, has flat out called himself an internet troll. It seems that the FBI decided to use the trollish nature of Auernheimer and collaborator Daniel Spitler to argue that this hack actually violated the incredibly poorly-worded and misunderstood Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA). That's a law that we've been discussing for a few years now, as law enforcement and courts keep trying to stretch the definition of what counts as "unauthorized access" under the bill.

Unfortunately, in this case, a jury was convinced that the discovery of this security hole left by AT&T was actually a crime, and Auernheimer is now facing five years in jail. Not surprisingly, he plans to appeal. Of course, part of the issue is that Auernheimer discussed, but did not actually do, a variety of bad things he could have done with the data in question, before eventually just revealing the security hole to the media.

Obviously, there may be a fine line between "white hat" exposure of security flaws and nefarious activity, but given that all that really happened here was the exposure of really poorly thought-out programming by AT&T, it seems bizarre that the guy who exposed it is now facing years in jail.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121121/09030521112/expose-blatant-security-hole-att-face-five-years-jail.shtml 


Title: Re: City Servers Hacked
Post by: nathanm on November 24, 2012, 02:46:00 pm
Don't get me started on that one. By the logic used in that case, there's no way to know whether you're violating the law or not unless you only ever click internal links on a given website. There are technical means by which servers tell you "no, you are not allowed to access this resource" and possibly offer a method with which to authenticate. at&t decided not to do that and got pissy when someone discovered their omission. On the bright side, it exposed the abuse the CFAA can be subject to.

It's also funny how great the misunderstanding of the technology was. In nearly every important detail the prosecution's argument flew in the face of reality. ICCIDs do not identify nor authenticate users in the way they are normally used, yet they were considered credentials. at&t made the data public, but somehow weev should have just known that it was intended to be nonpublic and that the ICCID was being used to authenticate users even though the ICCID is explicitly not secret nor (in the relevant standards) used to identify a particular subscriber.