|
guido911
|
 |
« Reply #135 on: May 10, 2012, 02:15:29 pm » |
|
Guido, notwithstanding the lack of credibility you have with me (and vice versa I'm sure  ) you chose as issues mostly those he had no unilateral power to enable and that depended on changing circumstances and information. Its one thing to have a position before an election, like closing Gitmo, and then having your atty general and the military give you more powerful arguments not to close it based on current information, then change your view. Its quite another to continue your obstinance in the face of overwhelming facts because you're afraid a poster on a forum in a redneck state might think you flip/flopped. Kennedy thought the Russians had superiority in nuclear missiles and ran on that as part of his campaign. Eisenhower knew different but couldn't let it be known. When Kennedy took office he was informed and changed his support. Damn flip flopping Democrat! Anyway, as I pointed out, its the manner in which Romney seems to wave in the breeze that gave him his well earned reputation. The Republicans want to take that weakness and ignore it by forcing the spotlight on their enemy and accuse him of the same thing. Who is the sucker in this scenario? I am not going after your credibility. You believe what you want to believe, you espouse it, and that's it. Same for me. Credibility in my mind is about believability and truth. Here, you and others are spending lots of time trying to lessen the impact of a plain flip flop, which you know to be a bad thing since you go after Romney for doing so. In my mind, that makes you look hypocritical and holding your side to a different (double) standard. Look at that list I gave of Obama flipping, or in your mind evolving or accepting political reality. You call his responding to "changing circumstances and information". Sheesh, just accept the FACT that Obama has changed his view on gay marriage and the defense of marriage act on numerous occasions since 1996. He was for it in 1996, before he was against it in 2008, now he's for it 2012--as well as other actions throughout. He also took this current position within DAYS of Biden doing what he does best and the North Carolina vote on gay marriage. Oh, did I mention he is up for reelection this year? This is all FACT. Please, stop trying to make this whole thing about some sudden spiritual or maturing awaking. It's not. Is it that hard for you to accept that Obama is a politician and, gulp, will make decisions for political gain? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Someone get Hoss a pacifier.
|
|
|
|
Townsend
|
|
« Reply #136 on: May 10, 2012, 02:21:50 pm » |
|
Look at that list I gave of Obama flipping, or in your mind evolving or accepting political reality. You call his responding to "changing circumstances and information". Sheesh, just accept the FACT that Obama has changed his view on gay marriage and the defense of marriage act on numerous occasions since 1996. He was for it in 1996, before he was against it in 2008, now he's for it 2012--as well as other actions throughout. He also took this current position within DAYS of Biden doing what he does best and the North Carolina vote on gay marriage. Oh, did I mention he is up for reelection this year? This is all FACT. Please, stop trying to make this whole thing about some sudden spiritual or maturing awaking. It's not. Is it that hard for you to accept that Obama is a politician and, gulp, will make decisions for political gain?
I'm going to guess that his views haven't changed much. Just what the handlers believe the electorate might want to hear. These guys are running a giant popularity contest. I'd promise to get recess lengthened too. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
guido911
|
|
« Reply #137 on: May 10, 2012, 02:27:12 pm » |
|
I'm going to guess that his views haven't changed much. Just what the handlers believe the electorate might want to hear.
These guys are running a giant popularity contest.
I'd promise to get recess lengthened too.
T for President!!!! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Someone get Hoss a pacifier.
|
|
|
|
Conan71
|
|
« Reply #138 on: May 10, 2012, 02:30:06 pm » |
|
I'm going to guess that his views haven't changed much. Just what the handlers believe the electorate might want to hear.
These guys are running a giant popularity contest.
I'd promise to get recess lengthened too.
Agreed. I think Crazy Uncle Joe was just sending up a well-orchestrated trial balloon to see if it was time for POTUS to come out of the closet on the issue finally. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
|
|
|
|
Townsend
|
|
« Reply #139 on: May 10, 2012, 02:35:49 pm » |
|
Agreed. I think Crazy Uncle Joe was just sending up a well-orchestrated trial balloon to see if it was time for POTUS to come out of the closet on the issue finally.
Smart move apparently. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
guido911
|
 |
« Reply #140 on: May 10, 2012, 03:07:18 pm » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Someone get Hoss a pacifier.
|
|
|
|
we vs us
|
|
« Reply #141 on: May 10, 2012, 03:16:33 pm » |
|
Agreed. I think Crazy Uncle Joe was just sending up a well-orchestrated trial balloon to see if it was time for POTUS to come out of the closet on the issue finally.
I'm pretty sure this is what happened, too. North Carolina definitely gave the announcement a goose, too. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
we vs us
|
|
« Reply #143 on: May 10, 2012, 03:34:13 pm » |
|
Interesting. He'll definitely see some fallout for his stance, but Politico's reasoning is based on data and voter turnout in some cases dating all the way back to 2004. As we've seen, polling on gay marriage has moved into net positive territory only recently . . . but what that means is opinion has been undergoing a strong shift only very recently. Data from 2004 -- two whole presidential cycles ago! -- is going to be less than fresh. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
AquaMan
|
|
« Reply #144 on: May 10, 2012, 05:08:17 pm » |
|
I am not going after your credibility. You believe what you want to believe, you espouse it, and that's it. Same for me. Credibility in my mind is about believability and truth. Here, you and others are spending lots of time trying to lessen the impact of a plain flip flop, which you know to be a bad thing since you go after Romney for doing so. In my mind, that makes you look hypocritical and holding your side to a different (double) standard.
Look at that list I gave of Obama flipping, or in your mind evolving or accepting political reality. You call his responding to "changing circumstances and information". Sheesh, just accept the FACT that Obama has changed his view on gay marriage and the defense of marriage act on numerous occasions since 1996. He was for it in 1996, before he was against it in 2008, now he's for it 2012--as well as other actions throughout. He also took this current position within DAYS of Biden doing what he does best and the North Carolina vote on gay marriage. Oh, did I mention he is up for reelection this year? This is all FACT. Please, stop trying to make this whole thing about some sudden spiritual or maturing awaking. It's not. Is it that hard for you to accept that Obama is a politician and, gulp, will make decisions for political gain?
His method of trial balloon, accidental release, and timing before an election I will concede as political tactics. Smart ones too that he has used before and Fox and friends (tp's) never see it coming. Darn that Biden, there he goes again.... The process of moving positions based on inside knowledge, compromise (the republicans hated word) or evolution of thought is real and totally different from talking like a farmer when your speaking to farmers. Romney will change a viewpoint in a heartbeat and every one of his opponents called him on it and lambasted him for it because they know it is based on where he is speaking and who he is speaking to. That contrasts severely with Obama. I would take this case to a jury and feel pretty secure that your argument would be dissected correctly. Romney wins the Fosbury award hands down. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
onward...through the fog
|
|
|
|
guido911
|
|
« Reply #145 on: May 10, 2012, 10:03:59 pm » |
|
As we've seen, polling on gay marriage has moved into net positive territory only recently . . . but what that means is opinion has been undergoing a strong shift only very recently.
Apparently the people in North Carolina didn't get the memo. Neither have the other 40 plus states where marriage is between a man and a woman or the 30 or so states that have banned same sex marriage. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Someone get Hoss a pacifier.
|
|
|
|
nathanm
|
|
« Reply #146 on: May 10, 2012, 11:07:06 pm » |
|
Apparently the people in North Carolina didn't get the memo. Neither have the other 40 plus states where marriage is between a man and a woman or the 30 or so states that have banned same sex marriage.
You may not have noticed this, but the population distribution is not exactly uniform between the states.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln
|
|
|
|
heironymouspasparagus
|
|
« Reply #147 on: May 11, 2012, 07:43:11 am » |
|
This also applies to his positions on gun control. He has worked actively in the past FOR it, and has been absolutely silent in public about it for the last 4 years. He is still evolving....
I have no problem at all with his evolution about gay rights - been there, done that, got the t-shirt...way back in the 60s - but going back AND forth does seem a little odd.
There is no excuse for the kind of disparity we see today on gay versus straight family units. Doesn't matter if it is called a marriage or a domestic union, all couples should have the same rights. And of course, there is one step further to this - should 3 or more people fall in love and want to share their lives as a family, who could possibly justify any government intrusion into their private life? Where would it be anyone's business but the people involved?
Only the same people who want the government out of big business' hair, but meddling in personal matters as much as possible. You know who that is....
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?" --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.
I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently. I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
|
|
|
|
AquaMan
|
|
« Reply #148 on: May 11, 2012, 08:40:56 am » |
|
Apparently the people in North Carolina didn't get the memo. Neither have the other 40 plus states where marriage is between a man and a woman or the 30 or so states that have banned same sex marriage.
Curious isn't it, how many states disregard the rights and values of their own constituencies. These people get in office and bring their own agendas and the public has to suffer the humiliation. Yes, Oklahoma, I'm talking about you. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
onward...through the fog
|
|
|
|
Townsend
|
|
« Reply #149 on: May 11, 2012, 08:48:49 am » |
|
Apparently the people in North Carolina didn't get the memo. Neither have the other 40 plus states where marriage is between a man and a woman or the 30 or so states that have banned same sex marriage.
Probably would've turned out differently if they'd held the vote in November. There's a reason why some elections are held in low turn-out times. The other states will start to change as intellect overcomes intolerence. Who's getting protected anyway? Marriage between man and woman is happening less and less. Marriage was originally for financial reasons. Must be in defense of the god of money. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
