The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

... according to Mike Easterling at Urban Tulsa.  http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A31172

Bringing in a national flag like Aloft is a great idea.  The Mayo is beautiful but I keep hearing complaints about the service. Competent hotel management is not a headache that developers like the Snyders should have to deal with.

Also, the parking issue is very interesting--that could be a potential snag.

I'll be interested to see how far the retail gets and what kind of tenants they're looking at.

Finally, as an aside, Easterling has been reporting circles around the Tulsa World.  If you want development headlines, bother with the TW; but for in depth details check UT, or Tulsa Business Journal, or OKC's Journal Record.  

Interesting. Just stayed at an Aloft in Broomfield, CO (NW Denver) and it was real nice.

It says they bought 400 spaces. Where?

This will match the Aloft being built just off 71st and 169. 

Poof!  All of a sudden Starwood has a presence in Tulsa. 

I assume that's the parking area underneath the Civic Center.

Yeah, the hotel with the Evil Kneivel jump ramp.

So now where will the county people park?

They'll have to figure out some way to share it.  Obviously the hotel will have the most need for it overnight, when the employees don't, but there's gonna be a lot more traffic there during special events.

By the way, according to this document: http://www.cityoftulsa.org/media/74362/tpa%206-09%20fs%20final%2012-23-09.pdf, the area under the Civic Center contains approximately 526 spaces.  The lease payments from the TPA to the city are nominal.  When Brickhugger takes over ownership of the property, they'll still be under the same obligations that the city was, so they'll have to figure out a way to negotiate those obligations to provide for parking for their facility.

I see the need for parking shuttle services comin' 'round the mountain.

Yeah, Aloft is a very trendy, hipster-type hotel. Hard to see something like that in old City Hall. It was funny, when I got the hotel in the early afternoon, a guy I was with said the only thing missing was the European club music. We got back late after work and sure enough, there it was.

I stayed at the aloft in downtown dallas a while back. It was probably my favorite hotel I've ever stayed in. They did a great job reusing an old building and turning it into a hotel.

My only complaint was that they sealed off the giant, spiral indoor industrial slide, so I couldn't slide down from my room to the lobby.

I've stayed there, it's right across the street from the Dallas Convention Center. Interesting place, I had a massive four foot diameter foot concrete post in the center of my room. I assume the conversion of the old city hall will be similar, maybe minus the post.

I don't want to stay in the "Planning Commission" suite.  It would be hard to sleep with all of the memories.  ???

I think the lobby and rooms should be decorated in red tape.

There are certainly plenty of people on the plaza lookin for a place to stay. . .and a cigarette if you got one.

yes...

as a platinum SPG, i'm thrilled...
i love the aloft brand...
its a less (slightly) pretentious W...
the "hipness" can border on tacky/poseur but its better than any other hotel chain we have in town...

I've not been to the Hyatt Place here, but in other cities I like their hotels

I like Aloft too, but I wish they had picked a brand that would utilize a local construction firm. 

Aloft has an agreement with Crossland Construction out of Arkansas.  They are a fantastic construction firm, but I would have liked to see a local company get the job.

Hyatt Place would work will with the proposed loft/hotel development at 3rd & Denver. 

I thought it was Manhattan, with ties to Brickhugger, of course..

Yeah, I'm pretty sure if the Snyders want it, Manhattan will build it.

Per this article, and per the obvious, Manhattan is building it.

http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A31172

So wait, you're telling me that there are Starwood hotels now? In places I actually have to stay?

SPG is great, but historically their markets have not been ones I need to stay in, so it's been pretty useless. Funny, since they keep sending me SPG gold cards.

HHonors has gone through so many devaluations now that it's pretty much only worthwhile when they're running a crazy promo. (like last quarter's free night cert good at (almost) any HHonors hotel for only four stays, which was worth 6 free nights to me)

Starwood has decided that they don't want a serious Recession to go to waste, and so announced some serious expansion plans earlier this spring.  Aloft is right in the middle of it. (http://development.starwoodhotels.com/news/1/75-aloft_hotels_eyes_global_expansion_in_2010_openings_includes_brussels_bangalore-and_brooklyn)  They're going global with the brand, but also expanding in US markets. 



 

I guess money is cheap enough now (presuming you can get it) that it makes sense, even with soft occupancy rates. SPG is good enough that it ought to drive some of Hilton and Marriott's business their way among the frequent traveler set.

I like what they're doing. They're picking off the young hipster business traveler which up till now hasn't really been an actual market segment.  Everyone just assumed the traveling Millenial would stay at the Courtyard by Marriott with the rest of the X's, Y's, and late Boomer business travelers.  Turns out lifestyle business travel is pretty important to a lot of folks. Who'd'a thunk?

Yeah, so now that it's settled that Manhattan is the construction firm..what was the point about Crossland doing it?

(Interestingly, I've noticed Manhattan and Crossland seem to do a lot of projects on e/o's "turf")

Rendering in today's Tulsa World:

(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2010/20101014_CityHall1014.jpg)

Would be nice to be able to read any of that.

KOTV has a PDF version that's easier to read

Looks like a new building for the restaurant, city council building becomes event space.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griffin/NEWSon6/PDF/1010/ThePlazaSitePlan.pdf

  Ooooh?  Whats this I see on the plans?   "New pyramid structure at existing opening"   We goin to get our own IM Pei Louvre type thing goin on?  Neato

I don't see that being appreciated here. 

I was there yesterday and looked around a little. 

The extension of 5th is a good idea.  I was people watching and was curious how they'd handle some of the area regulars.

Would they have the doormen out there shooing them with brooms?

Once the plaza gets modified, area groups will quit parking the food truck on the plaza.

Gussing not apparently lol.

Parking confusion escalates:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20101108_11_A1_CUTLIN926846 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20101108_11_A1_CUTLIN926846)

TOCH LLC has started issuing official looking tickets to people parked in its spaces.

I read that last night.  It seems a bit slanted to make it out like TOCH is trying to screw people over or something.  Once you read the whole thing it seems more like they are doing what they can to keep the space clear while renovating.  Doesn't even sound like they are seriously trying to go after anyone on this, just trying to make a point and let it be known that it is no longer public parking.  Of course the story doesn't really say if they are attempting to collect on these tickets or not, so it's possible they are, but I really don't see it.

The tickets from american parking look just as official. They likely brought someone in to monetize the lot and found *gasp* people were parking for free where they weren't supposed to be. It's not like CoT is known for it's great parking rules and enforcement.

I made the same connection. I was ticketed by American Parking once; of course I didn't pay it and apparently the ticket had no teeth because I only received one nasty letter from them and they dropped it.

If the parking spaces are clearly privately owned and clearly marked as such, then the property owner has the right to tow the cars off of their property. The fact that they gave the owners of the cars a written warning and a a reasonable fine is OK with me.

In Baltimore, I once had a car parked at what I thought was a public space on the street towed. It turned out the church I parked in front of on a Tuesday night had a little money-making deal where the tow company gave the church $100 for every car it towed of the $250 they charged me to get my car back.

I have been to the Aloft in downtown Dallas it was awesome.....great concept and much needed in downtown Tulsa!  The one is downtown Dallas is very different from the typical Aloft concept and I heard the one that will be at Old City Hall will be just like the one in the downtown Dallas....this is very exciting!

I am wondering if this project has started yet. Does anyone have information on it?

Also, I have heard rumors that it may not be an aLOFT...

I'm still hearing aLoft, but don't have any idea when it will actually break ground. 

I took a tour of the Mayo Hotel today and got a good look at the layout of the western part of the IDL from the Crystal Ballroom.  Lemme tellya, the aloft-whatever-it-is is going to be in a great place.  Staggered between the Doubletree, the BOK, the convention center, and the Mayo.  If the YMCA gets redone into condos and the block parking lot across from the BOK turns into what it's supposed to (the hotel plus condos plus office tower) that whole area's going to really blossom. 

That is exactly what I was thinking. That's why I really want to see this project completed soon. I really don't see why it wouldn't be, since it is a Brickhugger LLC project.

Edit: I wanted to add that I REALLY hope this will be an aLoft. It would make that hideous building seem really cool. I can't think of another hotel brand that would fit in as well.

I was told they are finalizing the designs and should start construction by summer.  I also heard bidding for the Cimarex tower is beginning soon.  It will be awesome to see the Aloft renovation and a tower crane building the Cimarex tower at the same time in the same area.  It will be even better if the YMCA renovations begin soon too.

I went up into City Hall once, to the top floor actually.  The views are outstanding, and one of the few buildings downtown that really has great views of the river.

Summer seems like a reasonable starting date for this project. So, do you happen to know of an updated groundbreaking date for Cimarex Tower?

Sorry to be so nit picky, but you said "finalizing designs" and "aLoft hotel renovation". Does that mean that this is in fact an aLoft?

I work in construction.  Just relaying what I hear. 

the original article in the world said it would be aLoft, the second one in Tulsa.

Thanks.  ;D

Interesting write up:

http://tulsabusiness.com/main.asp?FromHome=1&TypeID=1&ArticleID=52547&SectionID=3&SubSectionID=46

If a true assessment - then by all means take more time to design it right.

There was an article about this in the World today.  They are working on interior demolition and will start construction in the next few months with the hotel opening "late summer' 2012.  Looks pretty cool...a definite improvement from what is currently there.   :)

(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2011/20110816_E1_E1cityhall0816.jpg)

I was very surprised to hear how far along they are.  I hadn't heard anything about it at all, but if opening is -- give or take -- a year away they've done a lot of work.

Wonder how long it will take before a drunk cheerleader from Owasso to drives down that hole?  :P

Shhh..

That's the new Darwinian plan to protect the fountain.

Wow, I love the blue neon down the sides.

P.S. Anyone else notice that all the new renderings have R8s in them?

You cater to your audience, kinda like when all the rendering for upgrading the Ford Center had Fords in them.

Of course, now's it the Chesapeake gas Arena or whatever, so I guess it will just have a bunch of chubby people eating burritos.

I hope they tear down, replace, or at the very lease revitalize those ugly gazebos in front of the courthouse.  I assume they would.  I also assume there will be some security out front to keep the vagrants that hang out by the courthouse and the library away from the customers.  I'm not a hate on the homeless kind of guy, but from a business perspective, it would probably not be good for business.  I'm looking forward to seeing how this project and how the YMCA project transform that area.

I actually think the vagrants will be the major issue when the hotel finally opens.  On paper, it's a forward thinking brand in a great place being built by a company with a successful history.  And most of that will translate into day to day success, but I really do think that the sheer number and visibility of the homeless folk hanging around the library area is going to cause a problem.  Hotels have very public reputations, oftentimes shaped by perceptions and factors out of the hotel's control.  If this project gets tarred as the "homeless hotel" or similar, it will have a very difficult road ahead (and that might be even more important for this hotel than for most others, since the freshness of the brand is so central to its success).

The problem is kind of out of the Aloft's control, though.  A security perimeter can only be pushed so far, and the homeless folks range pretty far and wide in that area.  I'll be interested to see what their solution (if any) really is.

I don't think the homeless will be that big of an issue.  I have stayed in plenty of high-end hotels with homeless people hanging out in front of it.  I didn't think less of the city or hotel for it. 

Yeah, that's what doormen are for.

Just do what they do in big cities.  Give the homeless guys some signs and pay them to walk around with them.  When I lived up in St. Louis, the Aldi stores would give free bags to all of the homeless, and the result was that everywhere you saw a homeless guy you saw a dozen Aldi logos. . . and sometimes an Aldi shopping cart.

I propose a "The Most Dangerous Game" sort of solution.

Hire the homeless to be doormen and valets...or to create a perimeter to prevent drunk cheerleaders from driving into the hole.

Aldi shopping carts are cheap...only $.25.

That's funny, homeless people dressed up like NASCAR drivers or Professional BASS anglers.

Honestly, I don't see them being any more an issue than they are at the Mayo or BOK Center: Just about zilch.

Since the YMCA closed, I don't see nearly as many homeless hanging out in front of the courthosue.

I am curious, the article said the city had approve reopening a part of 5th street, but it wasn't clear what will be involved in doing so and who will pay for it.

I believe the Mayo people are doing it/paying for it as they own that part of the Plaza.

Not hard.  Most homeless guys already look like Jimmy Houston.
(http://nbcdock.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/flw-jimmy-houston3.jpg?w=314)

Give a man a fish. . .

Classic

Nope, they stay, but the County and Library spruced them up not all that long ago.  Plus the County intends to renovate the Courthouse entrances which were coordinated with this project and the Library.

The style of the old convention center, courthouse and library are quite amenable to being uptaded with todays contemporary style.  That atrocious "thing" they put in front of the library a while back is a mess that detracts and has nothing to do with the original look of the building.  Take what is there and accentuate it.  Update it while respecting the original look, feel and intent.  This style has come full circle to become retro and "in" again.  I think this Aloft project, and hopefully the Y as well, will show people whats possible.  

I may have asked this question before, but is this still on the plaza?
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQV3_Amity_by_Roy_Gussow_Tulsa_OK (http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQV3_Amity_by_Roy_Gussow_Tulsa_OK)

I always though it looked like the rotor in a wankel engine that had been run out of oil.

The photos in the Shooting at the Courthouse thread reminded me of the Aloft Hotel project in the old City Hall building.  Does anyone know the status of that rehab?

Macy Snider posted this a couple weeks ago on Facebook and said they are on schedule to complete the project by November...

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/431545_10100631848991447_9631387_51225362_992418285_n.jpg)

 Excellent, good to know the project is still moving forward.

Those walls look like they could deflect whatever stray bullets might be zinging around.

I live downtown and have been wondering what this was going to be. I'm excited to see the major growth in construction downtown and as for the homeless population, it isn't as big of a deal as most of you think. I grew up in South Tulsa and listened to how everybody was terrified of downtown and the homeless. I've also lived in Orlando, Miami, Atlanta, Philly, and now Tulsa. Tulsa is nowhere compared to any of these other cities ranked for homeless or crime. Yea, there will be some but nothing compared to most cities. Before you judge, get out and explore. You'll be glad you did :)
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Sorry dude, you are preaching to the choir.  Most everyone here is either a downtown dweller or downtown regular no downtown fear here!

Welcome aboard!

How's this project going? Any word on an opening date?

Sorry if this info has been posted elsewhere.

September 2012 is the announced opening.

Starwood web site has August 2013

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/corporate/directory/new-hotels/all/list.html?sortType=region

TW FB post:

The "soft opening" of a hotel that is under construction in the former City Hall building has been pushed back from mid-February until April as the city awaits road construction plans that would give firefighters access to the building.

So August 2015 it is then.

Haha.  My thought exactly.

That hotel will have lots of "Door-men."

If it becomes a money pit will it be referred to as the A-Hole?

It will provide a nice view of the folks coming in and out of the courthouse, and a convenient place to stay for the families. 

Will they have a cool souvenir shop?

(http://www.flurtsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Handcuffs.jpg)

I don't like to sound negative but does this look like a "ballroom"?

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/13207_541049842596363_836671156_n.jpg)


Maybe there's quite a bit more to be done.

If you've stayed in an aLoft you would not be so shocked. They are industrial chic. It's like a hotel decorated by IKEA.

Ah, I've not.  That explains the rooms exposed concrete walls.

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/207706_524480190919995_519622590_n.jpg)

Thanks for the info.

I am excited about the hotel and the ballroom. I am part of a group that has already booked an event there the last of April.

I do hope it is ready...

Ballroom - n - Large room with no predefined purpose. Typically made available for rent for special events.

But does it look like what you thought of as a ballroom?

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_Zv2AkeNCPwUn_ocm-TX-4PqiAl2KDSH54BCkTL9XW8ZT464U)

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8td89Q0mh1qbbzwjo1_500.jpg)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSCTJhmsp6ZSFr2PaTZWoi8qwmHN8-g46pLK8E3BdZfTQnbg9I3)

(http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/My+next+birthday+party.+you+re+never+too+old+for+a_051b47_4087614.jpg)

That is a more difficult view with the new Courthouse entrance off of Denver.

A ballroom

(http://www.globalpost.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gp3_small_article/ball_pit_bacteria_07_13_11.jpg)

How many diapers are hiding in there?

I have to believe the group remodeling this building know what they are doing. They did a great job on the Mayo Hotel and I think they know what they are doing.

+1

I wasn't questioning anyone's knowledge.

Projects almsot always run late if they need city/county/tda involvement.  From small businesses needing permits to major renovations of former city projects.  IMHO, streamlining the process would do more for business/jobs in this town than the Chamber has ever done.

Agreed. We make entrepreneurs jump through a million hoops to open a business, especially if they will sell booze.

I think just having someone at the city that can provide (friendly) help tp people to navigate through the process would be beneficial.

Yeah, throw in a couple of uncomfortable yet stylish chairs and a coffee bar and that puppy is ready for business!

http://newsok.com/plaza-will-get-a-facelift-as-improvements-made/article/3792239 (http://newsok.com/plaza-will-get-a-facelift-as-improvements-made/article/3792239)

(http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w300-79f2ee653f3a5bd26000773ca405af2b.jpg)

Plaza will get a facelift as improvements made

TULSA -- There's a transformation under way in downtown Tulsa and there's much more to come.
 
The Greater Tulsa Reporter's account talks about the transformation of old City Hall into an Aloft hotel nearing completion, but other projects just beginning.

Among the work scheduled are improvements to Tulsa’s historic downtown plaza.
 
That will include extending 5th Street from Denver Avenue to Frisco Avenue in front of the convention center.
 
Officials say the hotel is expected to be finished in mid-May. It will have 190 rooms. There will be expansive views of the BOK Center to the north.
 
The 5th Street project will cut through the middle of the plaza and will have drop-off areas for the library and Tulsa County building, as well as an access area to the hotel.

"Historic downtown plaza"?  The plaza deserves to be gutted and tossed in history's dustbin, just like the old Soviet Union (which undoubtedly was the inspiration for the plaza)

...in your opinion.

This "facelift" is really more of gut and replace. There will be a frickin street where the plaza is now, if that helps your mental image.

I've never seen an explanation for why no fire department access was apparently acceptable when it was city hall, but now that it's a hotel, an access road is needed.

Also, I can't be the only one disappointed in another road. Walk across downtown and it's all extra-wide roads and parking lots.

When they were showing videos of locked-down Boston the other day, the streets looked like downtown Tulsa's do most of the time.

Change of use?

The space I am in would not have needed 2water fountains, an in ground mop sink, ADA compliant restrooms, etc. had its use stayed "restaurant" vrs being changed to "retail/gift shop". 

City Hall workers are expendable.  Paying guests are not.
 
 ;D

A nice, scenic, pretty plaza, flanked by maybe the ugliest muncipal building in America.  Seriously, it looks like someone glued some pebbles to a wall, then let it stain for 50 years.  I guess that's probably exactly what happened.

We have a banquet in the new place this Friday night. I am excited to see the changes.

This is more of an access road than a road-road. And it's far from wide. It's basically just a way to pull up to Aloft and into the forthcoming library parking garage.

Are they ever going to put any signage on this? How are people driving through suppose to know its a hotel?

Because it's the city of Tulsa.

There is signage all around it, at or above car level.

They used historic tax credits for some of the restoration, so they can't significantly alter the exterior until a certain timeframe (a couple of years? 5 years?) ends. At least, that's what I heard from someone who used to work there. Same with the salvageable single-paned windows at the Mayo.

They added signage at the top of the east and north sides of the building. Visitors driving through Tulsa can now tell what the building is if coming in from those directions. Coming in from the west, not so much. Big improvement non the less.

Watched them install that form my office. Nice sign, back lit at night. Tall buildings need signs identifying them.  :)

So, I have to ask, do they have PBR on tap for the Tragically Hip and Overly Ironic crowd?   ;)

I've never seen that crowd hanging out at the XYZ bar...the few times I went it looked like the jersey shore.

So the 5th street expansion press conference was this morning apparently...per Aloft Tulsa's FB

Tulsa World reported the ground breaking was this morning.

That sounds strange that there's a ground breaking for a street.

Especially for an elevated street, you know, one not on the ground.

Well damn Swake...we have it right here...we have Tulsa. 

"This is my thesis man! This is my closing argument! I CAN STOP WATCHING TV!"

(http://www.mgmchannel.com/data/uddir/files/view_13_BRIDGE-TOO-FAR_jpg.jpg)

Parts of that movie are very funny.

There are reasonable disagreements as to what should happen with that space, but anything is better than what's there.  It's depressing to see. 

A couple of months ago I was there and thought the same thing...made me think of depressing 70's movies.

Zombie movie, after the fall of civilization.

More like "Warriors...Come out and play"

Just without the beach scene or anything else of interest.