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Title: TCC Downtown Post by: SXSW on July 02, 2008, 10:08:30 am How is work progressing on their new Center for Creativity? Last time I was in Tulsa I noticed they were doing site work. Are there any other plans for the parking lot district around TCC? That seems like such a good area for infill apartments for people wanting to be near TCC and by their jobs.
Rendering of the new building: (http://www.selserschaefer.com/images/photos_create_tcc.jpg) Title: TCC Downtown Post by: dsjeffries on July 02, 2008, 11:26:40 am A lot of the steel is already up. I'll try to get some pictures within a couple days.
Title: TCC Downtown Post by: sgrizzle on July 02, 2008, 12:58:51 pm Parking Garage is a four letter word to TCC and that is what they would need to redevelop any of that area.
Title: TCC Downtown Post by: SXSW on July 02, 2008, 03:07:00 pm ^ I can hope that with new leadership, especially since they are redeveloping part of one of their lots, they may consider it in the future. Especially if they want to do some kind of residential project for their students. I've never seen a community college with on-campus housing but it would be a win-win for south downtown and TCC...only if they consolidate their parking in a garage, preferably at their lot between Boston and Cincinnati with streetfront retail space along Boston.
Does the Center for Creativity span the entire length of Boston from 9th to 10th? Title: TCC Downtown Post by: dsjeffries on July 02, 2008, 03:36:04 pm Did a quick drive-by:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3013/2632322228_8c9ef49a85.jpg) (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/2632321794_48812dda72.jpg) (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3049/2631497713_69629974cf.jpg) (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3062/2632319740_e43882f66d.jpg) Title: TCC Downtown Post by: TheArtist on July 02, 2008, 05:12:49 pm quote: The most likely bet for dorms is on the OSU Tulsa campus. They have mentioned the possibility of them being used by students at TCC and the OU Medical Center. It would be an easy bikeride or Trolleyride between the campuses. Title: TCC Downtown Post by: OurTulsa on July 02, 2008, 09:57:07 pm quote: Ha Ha Ha, you said 'parking lot district'! That's the first time I've ever heard that. That's funny as hell! Title: TCC Downtown Post by: joiei on July 02, 2008, 10:44:47 pm quote: Title: TCC Downtown Post by: TheArtist on July 03, 2008, 06:35:24 am quote: Title: TCC Downtown Post by: SXSW on July 03, 2008, 07:36:13 am I like the design, it's contemporary which IMO is fine in this area because all of the historic buildings are gone. We might as well encourage contemporary design in areas of downtown where historic buildings were destroyed during Urban Renewal, including the area around the arena and the East End. Now Brady is another story, I think the buildings should reflect their place in a brick warehouse district.
I am glad this building, and the other TCC Metro buildings, create density in an otherwise low density area of downtown. How they meet the sidewalk/street is good urban design, and this new building seems to be the same way from what I can tell. I'd imagine if we can ever get the eyesore Federal Building moved from its location by the arena the parking lot district would be a good place to move it... Title: TCC Downtown Post by: hoodlum on July 06, 2008, 12:53:11 pm I recently accepted a new job with an architecture firm in southwest missouri, so I fel i can talk about the Center for Creativity now without it being a conflict of interest since my former firm Selser Schaefer Architects did the design. The building does indeed span the entire length of the block, and no new parking spaces are added. in addition the idea is that this building and the existing building immediately to its east will form the southern border of an urban park space that will occur at the corner of boston and 9th? (always get that mixed up).
keep an eye out for this it will be beautiful. Title: TCC Downtown Post by: inteller on July 06, 2008, 03:49:28 pm quote: you are obviously not serious. Title: TCC Downtown Post by: SXSW on July 06, 2008, 05:26:53 pm quote: I most certainly am. There is no reason for the Federal Building to be in that location. Especially once a new convention hotel is built just to the south. Title: TCC Downtown Post by: swake on July 06, 2008, 05:53:34 pm quote: Tulsa is on the list of cities due to get new federal buildings, but with our congressional delegation the way it is we probably won't see it for decades. Title: TCC Downtown Post by: TheArtist on July 07, 2008, 07:22:19 am quote: You wouldnt happen to be able to find us some other renderings of this building would ya? [:)] I am suprised that TCC hasnt posted any. Is that a digital screen on the North side of the building? Title: TCC Downtown Post by: Renaissance on July 07, 2008, 10:57:49 am quote: We were slated for one in the mid-1990s but them Timothy McVeigh forcibly rearranged the priority list, and then a few years later 9/11 caused an overhaul and they reprioritized the rebuilds based on security issues. We got bumped down and never got bumped back up. I think because the building is still not quite decrepit and because Tulsa is a low-threat security zone, it's going to be another decade. But we're on the replacement list. When I worked there some years back, some of the U.S. Marshalls were telling me they had been looking at plots of land across Denver, such as the old Towerview site as well as the block at 2nd and Cheyenne where BOK ended up putting that big parking garage. I seriously doubt they will end up moving the new federal building (ten years from now) that far away from the rest of the government buildings. Hell, we ought to arrange a swap with the Federal Government for Old City Hall. They could build the new Federal Courthouse closer to the other government buildings, and Tulsa could have an even larger parcel adjacent to the arena for hotel/commerce development. /simcity fantasy Title: TCC Downtown Post by: SXSW on July 07, 2008, 11:48:49 am If it's so important to be near the other govt. buildings then the parking lot across Denver (in between 4th and 5th) from the library would be a good location. No need to tear down anything else and it would be close enough so that a move would be easy from the existing building. Building density along Denver by the arena is a good thing.
Title: TCC Downtown Post by: cannon_fodder on July 07, 2008, 12:09:21 pm I worked for a judge in the Federal Building. It is poorly designed for it's current purpose. Random corridors, rooms that can't really be used, security zones are awkward. Not too mention it's butt ugly.
It's getting run down more and more. I can't say it is bad enough to warrant the tens of millions needed to replace it, but when the federal government abandons it certainly no private enterprise will want it. The fiscal side of me says deal with it, the desire for a pretty downtown wants to see it gone. Title: TCC Downtown Post by: booWorld on July 26, 2008, 01:06:58 pm quote: 1953 photo from nearly the same vantage point as the rendering above, with the Sinclair Building under construction on the left (east side of Boston): (http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/B1341.jpg) Source: Beryl Ford Collection / Rotary Club of Tulsa, Tulsa City-County Library, Tulsa Historical Society Title: TCC Downtown Post by: carltonplace on July 28, 2008, 09:23:08 am What a shame. This makes we want to find all of the people responsible for all of that demolition, from the one that spear-headed it, to the guy that signed the form and line them all up and kick 'em in the pants.
Title: TCC Downtown Post by: booWorld on July 28, 2008, 07:50:53 pm Looking north on Boston in 1956, with the Sinclair Building (now TCC) on the right:
(http://www.tulsalibrary.org/JPG/B2013.jpg) Source: Beryl Ford Collection / Rotary Club of Tulsa, Tulsa City-County Library, Tulsa Historical Society Title: TCC Downtown Post by: TheArtist on July 28, 2008, 09:41:06 pm Ok, please, just stop. Thats so depressing.
Title: TCC Downtown Post by: PonderInc on July 29, 2008, 12:26:58 pm Hey Artist, can we put "Parking Lot District" on our map? Soooo appropriate!
Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Townsend on February 23, 2011, 02:43:32 pm So, reviving an old thread because I find the event parking map at Metro campus disturbing... (http://www.tulsacc.edu/57571.jpg) That's a kick in the jewels. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: swake on February 23, 2011, 03:28:33 pm So, reviving an old thread because I find the event parking map at Metro campus disturbing... (http://www.tulsacc.edu/57571.jpg) That's a kick in the jewels. TCC has not been good for downtown. They should build a five story parking garage on lot one and sell the others off for development to help pay for the garage. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Conan71 on February 23, 2011, 03:41:29 pm Didn't they finally build a multi story garage to the west of the original building or at least part of it was for stacked parking?
I suspect that the plan all along has been to eventually have classroom buildings on what are surface lots now and eventually they will build a parking garage or by the time they've built up all around people will be using more public transit. I may be way off my rocker and they really think all that surface parking is a good use of space. I've always assumed it was shrewd investing in future growth. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: swake on February 23, 2011, 03:53:22 pm Didn't they finally build a multi story garage to the west of the original building or at least part of it was for stacked parking? I suspect that the plan all along has been to eventually have classroom buildings on what are surface lots now and eventually they will build a parking garage or by the time they've built up all around people will be using more public transit. I may be way off my rocker and they really think all that surface parking is a good use of space. I've always assumed it was shrewd investing in future growth. But is it better for Tulsa and better for downtown if that growth is at TCC or at OSU? These lots are killing are killing southern downtown and to me we want OSU to grow, not TCC. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Conan71 on February 23, 2011, 03:57:17 pm But is it better for Tulsa and better for downtown if that growth is at TCC or at OSU? These lots are killing are killing southern downtown and to me we want OSU to grow, not TCC. Why does it matter which one grows? TCC seems to serve a good purpose in the community. We are always going to have the disjointed degree programs at OSU, other than the med school. I'm no flak for TCC and I've said for at least the last 25 years since they built UCAT it was a major love up not to have combined UCAT and TCC into a four year school. However, many people have benefitted from TCC over the years and continue to do so. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: SXSW on February 23, 2011, 06:26:46 pm I think it would serve a better purpose for OSU to build up a campus next to TCC at 10th & Boston. Start by building one classroom building on the lot to the south. Eventually begin to move more and more of the campus to the lots south of TCC with an agreement to share facilities and work together on degree programs. For instance you could take lower level undergrad classes at TCC and then take upper level and graduate classes at OSU on the same campus. That arrangment is already in place for a lot of degree programs due to OSU offering many of its lower level classes in Stillwater, which isn't likely to change. What could change though are more upper level and graduate, even doctoral, focused classes being offered at OSU-Tulsa. Even a few grad programs currently in Stillwater could move to Tulsa. As more students, both undergrad and grad, start enrolling at OSU there will be a need for more buildings, including buildings for specific disciplines such as engineering, business, education, social sciences, architecture, etc. That could pretty quickly fill up the lots south of TCC and turn that whole area into a 24/7 campus environment with student housing on surface lots to the west (around 11th & Cheyenne) and east (around 9th & Detroit). Imagine 15,000+ students (both OSU and TCC) going to school everyday and many living in downtown and what that would do for our city...
The existing OSU campus in Greenwood could then be the turned into a dedicated research campus, something OSU doesn't currently have and something that would be better suited at this location where they already have a research building (the Helmerich ATRC) with room to grow. The south downtown location is just better for a growing university campus, especially with synergies created by being next to TCC and near a lot of existing apartments downtown and in nearby Uptown-Riverview and Cherry Street areas. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: sgrizzle on February 23, 2011, 08:47:34 pm Didn't they finally build a multi story garage to the west of the original building or at least part of it was for stacked parking? I suspect that the plan all along has been to eventually have classroom buildings on what are surface lots now and eventually they will build a parking garage or by the time they've built up all around people will be using more public transit. I may be way off my rocker and they really think all that surface parking is a good use of space. I've always assumed it was shrewd investing in future growth. The plan is to eventually have a "quad" at 9th and Boston, a parking garage behind the center for creativity and eventually other lots. They aren't opposed to garages but currently the best bang for the buck is surface lots. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: jne on February 23, 2011, 11:36:43 pm The plan is to eventually have a "quad" at 9th and Boston, a parking garage behind the center for creativity and eventually other lots. They aren't opposed to garages but currently the best bang for the buck is surface lots. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlQMvecMtkA[/youtube] Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Renaissance on February 24, 2011, 09:32:55 am The plan is to eventually have a "quad" at 9th and Boston, a parking garage behind the center for creativity and eventually other lots. They aren't opposed to garages but currently the best bang for the buck is surface lots. Yeah, when I was at OU and parking was a constant issue, student government was always agitating for structured parking to replace lots in order to more efficiently use space. The answer we got--and this was a fair point--was that structured parking didn't actually use space as well as surface parking. I believe the figure that was quoted to us was $30,000 per parking spot to build effective vertical structured parking (effective meaning to adequately replace what was being built on and then some). Parking garages are nice for the streetscape but they're often not a cost effective solution. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Red Arrow on February 24, 2011, 09:57:49 am Parking garages are nice for the streetscape but they're often not a cost effective solution. A change to the tax code to raise the taxes on surface parking and lower taxes on structured parking might help. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Conan71 on February 24, 2011, 09:59:03 am A change to the tax code to raise the taxes on surface parking and lower taxes on structured parking might help. It would be an incentive, but I'm not really a fan of using tax codes for punitive measures. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Red Arrow on February 24, 2011, 10:03:30 am It would be an incentive, but I'm not really a fan of using tax codes for punitive measures. We use the tax code for all sorts of things. Maybe we shouldn't but we do. Interest deduction on home mortgage is the big one that I can think of. The tax deal for the ball park "punishes" local businesses that won't gain from the ballpark. Maybe just making structured parking tax free rather than raising the tax on surface parking would be more palatable. It wouldn't be any worse than church properties. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Conan71 on February 24, 2011, 10:15:52 am We use the tax code for all sorts of things. Maybe we shouldn't but we do. Interest deduction on home mortgage is the big one that I can think of. The tax deal for the ball park "punishes" local businesses that won't gain from the ballpark. Maybe just making structured parking tax free rather than raising the tax on surface parking would be more palatable. It wouldn't be any worse than church properties. Then it becomes more corporate welfare ;) Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Red Arrow on February 24, 2011, 10:47:27 am Then it becomes more corporate welfare ;) OK, how about zoning. NO Surface Parking. Period. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Conan71 on February 24, 2011, 11:43:31 am OK, how about zoning. NO Surface Parking. Period. I like that solution a whole lot better. Then the development industry says that makes it grossly unfair as it raises the cost of construction. Bottom line is, you simply can't please every interest. My disdain for taxation as a method of behavior modification or punishment goes back to the increase in sin taxes when I was still a slave to nicotine. It's only gotten worse from there, i.e. Crap & Trade, etc. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Red Arrow on February 24, 2011, 11:57:47 am I like that solution a whole lot better. Then the development industry says that makes it grossly unfair as it raises the cost of construction. Bottom line is, you simply can't please every interest. My disdain for taxation as a method of behavior modification or punishment goes back to the increase in sin taxes when I was still a slave to nicotine. It's only gotten worse from there, i.e. Crap & Trade, etc. I find it exceedingly difficult to find any sympathy for the Parking companies. They do however contribute to the cardio-vascular health of people able to walk and to cheap to pay exorbitant rates. (Me) Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: SXSW on February 24, 2011, 01:20:33 pm The plan is to eventually have a "quad" at 9th and Boston, a parking garage behind the center for creativity and eventually other lots. They aren't opposed to garages but currently the best bang for the buck is surface lots. Something like this where the new buildings are built around a quad would be great for this area. Yellow = buildings and blue = parking garages. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/57571.jpg) It would be nice to at least see a master plan, like this: (http://missionlocal.org/wp-content/themes/calpress/library/extensions/timthumb.php?src=http://missionlocal.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/MB-Campus-map-CROP.jpg&w=620) Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: SXSW on February 24, 2011, 05:17:55 pm Thanks to TN forumer Booworld for pointing me towards the downtown master plan which features ideas and concepts for TCC. I like the quad concept at 9th & Boston.
http://www.cityoftulsa.org/media/109992/DAMPVolume2-11-1-10.pdf If OSU were to move to this area they could build on the lots south of 10th (in orange) while TCC (in blue) could expand to the north and east. Both TCC and OSU could share facilities, such as classrooms and labs, as well as a student rec center and student union. This campus would support as many as 20,000 TCC and OSU students. The Greenwood campus would then be OSU's primary research center. New student housing would be concentrated on the surface lots west of the campus along Denver, Cheyenne and Boulder, and also as infill in the Gunboat Park area to the east. Parking garages are shown in red. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/tcc.jpg) Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Townsend on October 22, 2012, 08:54:26 am TCC plans to open physical therapy clinic downtown http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=17&articleid=20121020_17_A12_CUTLIN778436 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=17&articleid=20121020_17_A12_CUTLIN778436) Quote Tulsa Community College has announced that it will open a stand-alone physical therapy clinic downtown. The new clinic will allow the physical therapy assistant program to see more patients, who will pay a one-time fee of $10 for all services, said Suzanne Reese-Taylor, associate dean of allied health for TCC and former director for the physical therapy assistant program. It will be the college's first free-standing clinic. Students in the five-semester program will work with instructors to provide therapy to patients of all ages. Each student must complete 680 clinic hours before graduating, she said. The college will use a former car dealership building at 815 S. Cincinnati Ave. About 2,000 square feet will be added, and the building will be renovated to include classrooms and offices. It's across the intersection diagonally from TCC's Metro Campus main building, where the current program is housed in a couple of rooms on the fifth floor. The college is about $340,000 short of its fundraising goal of about $2 million as it enters the public phase of the campaign. The college is launching its public fundraising initiative Friday. Officials hope to have the clinic operating by the beginning of 2014. The program now treats four patients. At the new location, they expect to be treating about 40. Having a small one-time fee will help people who don't have physical therapy covered by insurance, or who have used it more than the insurance company will pay, Reese-Taylor said. "I think there's a lot of people who can use some financial assistance with health care, and that's who we're approaching with this," she said. David Fetherston's daughter, Lora Fetherston, has been getting therapy at TCC for about 12 years. She had a car accident in 1994 and now uses a wheelchair. They drive from Pryor once a week for therapy. Lora Fetherston takes pride in helping teach the therapy students. She has read many books on the subject herself, her father said. A new, larger space would be good for the program, he said. "It would improve the whole atmosphere here," he said. TCC physical therapy instructor Jeff Hammontree said Lora Fetherston and other patients are a great asset to the program. "She teaches them so much more than I ever could," he said. The new clinic will allow students to interact with patients their first semester, instead of waiting about six months like they do now, he said. Reese-Taylor said the physical therapy program, which is celebrating its 30th anniversary, has grown dramatically, with more faculty and students. It now gets about 250 applications for 35 slots. "It's just become more and more popular," she said. Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=17&articleid=20121020_17_A12_CUTLIN778436 The building: http://tinyurl.com/9k4z57m (http://tinyurl.com/9k4z57m) Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: carltonplace on October 22, 2012, 09:28:15 am Thank goodness they are not removing any surface parking!
Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Townsend on October 22, 2012, 09:41:02 am Thank goodness they are not removing any surface parking! Well, they're expanding the structure and it's taking up an empty building. (glass half full) Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: rdj on October 22, 2012, 10:31:17 am This is in the former car dealership/Tulsa 66'ers HQ that KMO has been attempting to lease for years, correct? Great building from the street, but limited use without extensive interior modifications. Hopefully this works.
Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Townsend on October 22, 2012, 10:35:59 am This is in the former car dealership/Tulsa 66'ers HQ that KMO has been attempting to lease for years, correct? Great building from the street, but limited use without extensive interior modifications. Hopefully this works. Correct. Per the article: Quote About 2,000 square feet will be added, and the building will be renovated to include classrooms and offices Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: godboko71 on October 22, 2012, 11:25:14 am Sounds like win to me an existing building is reused and added to. Might as well use what we got!
Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: sgrizzle on October 22, 2012, 01:01:34 pm Given TCC's recent history with buildings I'm nervous that they accidentally checked the wrong box on a form.
Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: SXSW on March 26, 2014, 12:55:12 pm TCC is about to have new leadership with a new president being chosen this summer. Out of three candidates one is from Tulsa and is VP of research and institutional investment at OSU-Tulsa while the other two are from smaller community colleges in Minnesota. Hopefully the new leadership will continue investing in the metro campus. I know TCC wants to build up its health sciences offerings along Cincinnati. A technology center, entrepreneurial incubator and conference facility (replacing the Skyline center) would be nice additions to the downtown campus.
http://m.tulsaworld.com/news/education/three-finalists-for-tulsa-community-college-president-named/article_22bfdf0f-95ff-5b53-a887-76cc7d8f2f13.html (http://m.tulsaworld.com/news/education/three-finalists-for-tulsa-community-college-president-named/article_22bfdf0f-95ff-5b53-a887-76cc7d8f2f13.html) Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Townsend on July 07, 2014, 11:58:32 am TYPros Looks for Public Vote on Parking Contest
Slide Show available. http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/typros-looks-public-vote-parking-contest (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/typros-looks-public-vote-parking-contest) (http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/medium/public/201407/parking1.jpg) Quote Tulsa's Young Professionals has opened voting on projects to redevelop downtown parking to the public. TYPros' Street CReD event focused on making south downtown a walkable, enjoyable place, and this contest is a continuation of that. Chair Isaac Rocha said it's another way to get people thinking about an area that could be more than parking lots. "We're hoping to show the potential of what could happen with the surface parking," Rocha said. "Hopefully funders in the private sector will see the potential and possible look at one of these projects and say, 'We should have this in our south downtown.'" Architects submitted ideas ranging from a food truck park to a green space. Kenton Grant said his firm went with a sports complex because there are only professional venues downtown right now. "You have professional fields at the Drillers," Grant said. "You have the BOK Center, which brings in hockey and other events, but there wasn't really anything with a community tie to sports. "And that's why we really liked and grabbed onto the idea of having a sports complex that was nonprofessional based, purely for the community, the schools and the people of Tulsa." Drawings of the concepts are on display at Foolish Things coffee, 1001 S Main St. Voting is online at bit.ly/votecred. A winner will be announced July 16. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: SXSW on July 07, 2014, 12:12:58 pm I like this one, creating an innovation center/hub and incubator for start-ups. https://www.tulsachamber.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/MilesAssociates.pdf (https://www.tulsachamber.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/MilesAssociates.pdf)
The soccer field would be cool on the lot to the south though. It could also include a rec center for use by TCC and downtown workers/residents. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: TheArtist on July 07, 2014, 01:18:27 pm I like this one the best. https://www.tulsachamber.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/1Architecture.pdf
While not personally thrilled with the "artistry" of the design, it seems to be the best "pedestrian friendly" wise which is more important. When I look at a project I try to think of how the place will actually "live" and function, how it will add to what exists, and how people will actually use the space (even if they will actually use it). Often parks or plazas look nice in renderings for instance, but in so many instances don't actually really get that much use and can even be almost as much a "discouragement" to creating a lively pedestrian street as a parking lot depending on how they are designed, their scale, etc. Also I try to NEVER let myself get enamored with a flashy, super neat, modern design rendering of a building without FIRST looking at how it meets the sidewalk. The most important part is that first level, everything above that is mere puffery. Love that "puffery" when its sitting atop a pedestrian friendly pedestal, could care less if its sitting above something that nobody will want to walk past. Whether or not a building looks nice in a photo, or rendering at a distance isn't my main concern and doesn't trump whether or not that building will actually be one thats good for building pedestrian traffic and street life and thus be good for urban retail/business and the general desirability and vibrancy of your cities core. I know architects and the general public looking at pictures will disagree, but thats because they have other concerns (making an impression and getting to do "fancy" creative, designs) or aren't concerned with or educated about pedestrian friendly, how does a good urban area actually work, ideas at all. Now not every block in a downtown needs to have pedestrian friendly structures, parks, etc. along it, but for those streets we do want to have that on… I really do not like the one with the sports complex on the roof. It destroys any potential pedestrian corridor along that area of Boston Ave and Cincinnati, and the plaza area to the south looks like another one of those types of areas that would essentially be empty most of the time. Looks like something out of the 80's that would end up a dusty, windswept plaza with empty windows, especially in that location with nothing around it and everyone from the school having to walk past a block of boring cement wall. Do that once or twice with very few people there and you wouldn't try it again. There is already a park area over there by the church. How often have you seen people enjoying it or walking past? Handful of people a year perhaps. Also the one done by Miles and Associates seems more fitting for 2 different scenarios. A suburban context (looks like a suburban style office complex like you might see in Dallas sprawltopia), or a high density urban area with very little green space such that the spaces around it would be very much appreciated (not what we have in our downtown). Plus again, I don't see it being a place that would engender much pedestrian traffic and the exterior spaces seem a little disjointed and awkward. I am actually really curious as to what their thought processes were? Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Townsend on July 08, 2014, 11:38:20 am The lots to the east of TCC and South of the new physical therapy building...major dirt work to just be surface lots again.
Did I miss what these plots will be when they grow up? Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: DowntownDan on July 08, 2014, 11:56:57 am Those renderings are like downtown Tulsa fan fiction, lol. I pretty much believe that south downtown is hopeless so long as TCC and the churches demand parking lots. There is so much more potential in Brady, Blue Dome, Greenwood, East Village, Central Business District, and BOK/Civil Plaza and there is actually things going on and lots of room for infill and redevelopment. Southern downtown will probably be what it is for the foreseeable future.
There is also some dirt work going on in the lot near the new physical therapy building next to the main buildings. They tore down a building there last year. I'm guessing it'll be another fancy freshly paved parking lot. That's just how it is and is gonna continue to be unfortunately. There's an old building just next to it. I give it a year before it's bought, demolished, and paved over as well. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: carltonplace on July 08, 2014, 12:15:31 pm There are more surface parking lots between 9th Street and 15th Street than there are buildings (much less occupied buildings) to park and walk into.
In the last year 5 buildings have been demolished in this area in favor of additional parking. One building was demolished for an AEP/PSO substation expansion. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: bacjz00 on July 08, 2014, 01:50:36 pm All of a sudden, I'm really depressed about this part of downtown. It doesn't seem like Tulsa will be able to have its cake and eat it too anytime soon.
Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: Conan71 on July 08, 2014, 01:58:37 pm All of a sudden, I'm really depressed about this part of downtown. It doesn't seem like Tulsa will be able to have its cake and eat it too anytime soon. Cake is overrated. Pie is so much better! Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: TheArtist on July 08, 2014, 02:43:12 pm Those renderings are like downtown Tulsa fan fiction, lol. I pretty much believe that south downtown is hopeless so long as TCC and the churches demand parking lots. There is so much more potential in Brady, Blue Dome, Greenwood, East Village, Central Business District, and BOK/Civil Plaza and there is actually things going on and lots of room for infill and redevelopment. Southern downtown will probably be what it is for the foreseeable future. There is also some dirt work going on in the lot near the new physical therapy building next to the main buildings. They tore down a building there last year. I'm guessing it'll be another fancy freshly paved parking lot. That's just how it is and is gonna continue to be unfortunately. There's an old building just next to it. I give it a year before it's bought, demolished, and paved over as well. I think development along Boston Avenue could have a chance at being extended from TCC and the area around the coffee shop, into downtown. Even the church parking lot along there does not get many, if any, cars in it so they might be able to be persuaded to part with a section of that property fronting Boston Ave. A narrow strip right up to the sidewalk having lots of small shop areas and perhaps living above would be great. And if TCC or some investor were to do something like the more pedestrian friendly development on their NW parking lot area, then that would go a huge way to connecting the campus area to the core. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: DTowner on July 08, 2014, 03:12:39 pm I think development along Boston Avenue could have a chance at being extended from TCC and the area around the coffee shop, into downtown. Even the church parking lot along there does not get many, if any, cars in it so they might be able to be persuaded to part with a section of that property fronting Boston Ave. A narrow strip right up to the sidewalk having lots of small shop areas and perhaps living above would be great. And if TCC or some investor were to do something like the more pedestrian friendly development on their NW parking lot area, then that would go a huge way to connecting the campus area to the core. I agree the area along Boston north of TCC has the most hope of building up long before the surface lots south of 10th Street. Nonetheless, I doubt the economics will support that kind of ground up development for at least the next 3-5 years. We are steadily eliminating the supply of empty and underutilized buildings downtown (not as fast as I would like, but probably as fast as the market can absorb with current growth rates). I think the East Village offers a lot more opportunity for new construction and building a predominately residential neighborhood with row houses and low rise apartment buildings with a few commercial developments sprinkled in and would be a much more important addition to downtown. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: TheArtist on July 08, 2014, 08:20:42 pm I agree the area along Boston north of TCC has the most hope of building up long before the surface lots south of 10th Street. Nonetheless, I doubt the economics will support that kind of ground up development for at least the next 3-5 years. We are steadily eliminating the supply of empty and underutilized buildings downtown (not as fast as I would like, but probably as fast as the market can absorb with current growth rates). I think the East Village offers a lot more opportunity for new construction and building a predominately residential neighborhood with row houses and low rise apartment buildings with a few commercial developments sprinkled in and would be a much more important addition to downtown. Absolutely. Btw was just at the Pearl District meeting (working to open another business in the area) and a guy who is with the architect team proposing the BAM multi-sport idea was there drumming up support. I of course had to say my thing about how it was not pedestrian friendly with that long wall on Boston Ave. He said their actual idea was to have retail all along there but that they did not have the time to put that in the rendering. So, there is that to be fair. And to segue slightly, speaking of the Pearl District. Had an awning guy go out to the property to get started on some quotes for some awnings (want them to help make the area more pedestrian friendly, provide some shade for the front windows, and do double duty as signage as well) and discovered to my horror this…. Apparently it's illegal to have awnings out over the sidewalk! That's one of the main points of awnings is that they help protect people walking on the sidewalk from sun and rain. Look at old photos of Tulsa when people were walking down the sidewalks back in the day and there were awnings everywhere on just about every building. Heck cities everywhere for thousands of years have had awnings all along their streets cause it's a positive thing for businesses and pedestrians, but apparently its illegal in Tulsa and I will likely have to "pay" (heard about $1,300) and fill out paperwork, etc. to "try" to get an exception. How absurd is that? Before this I was of the mind of suggesting that the city should offer incentives of some sort to encourage more businesses, especially in these types of areas, to put up awnings. Had no idea that they were not permitted and if you did want them you had to jump through hoops for several months and pay extra. Oh, and apparently there are still minimum parking requirements in the area? Really? You still almost have to tear out something around you in order to put in more parking lots. We may not even be able to make this project happen. Will be going to the city tomorrow to find out what the deal is. No wonder so many buildings are still sitting there empty. They want to turn it into some suburban style area and it's not designed for that now and I would rather do my part to help it become more pedestrian friendly, but even then you still have no idea what the neighboring properties may do because if they do the opposite, they will hurt your business. You can put your heart into something and then just hope and cross your fingers that the next guy won't destroy everything you have worked so hard for. Egads. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: cannon_fodder on July 08, 2014, 08:43:47 pm Face it, those in charge of zoning in Tulsa have pretty well gotten it wrong since the 1950s.
Minimum parking is stupid. From TPS tearing out playgrounds to add parking, to forcing Cherry Street to tear out the neighborhood, to TCC adding a parking lot to an area that was just humiliated as th worst example of a parking desert in the nation. Add in constant developments set back with massive fronted parking lots. Zero building requirements for quality or form. If you want to build it, come on! Name an area WITH charector developed in Tulsa in the last 50 years. I'd bet big that for the foreseeable future TCC downtown maintains a "no urban development" policy. Prove me wrong TCC. P.S. too bad we have half donkey OSU, OU, NSU, RSU, and Langston instead of one REAL 4 year D1 state college in Tulsa. But from a small gubment perspective it males sense to have 5 colleges try to do the job... Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: carltonplace on July 09, 2014, 07:54:27 am TCC's behaviour in downtown makes me regret that I fund them with my property taxes.
Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 09, 2014, 08:17:19 am P.S. too bad we have half donkey OSU, OU, NSU, RSU, and Langston instead of one REAL 4 year D1 state Sorry....just couldn't let that go! Had to fix it for you. It's worse than "too bad" - it is ignorance at it's peak of performance. And... No one can name an area WITH character developed in Tulsa in the last 50 years because there has been none! Well, except maybe for the Woodland Hills mall area.... LOL!! (Sometimes I crack myself up!!) Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: sgrizzle on July 09, 2014, 11:08:40 am Minimum parking is stupid. From TPS tearing out playgrounds to add parking, to forcing Cherry Street to tear out the neighborhood, to TCC adding a parking lot to an area that was just humiliated as th worst example of a parking desert in the nation. Downtown TCC has no parking requirement. They could make the whole thing a water park and comply with zoning. Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: cannon_fodder on July 10, 2014, 01:46:20 pm That's why I picked on TCC with my development rant. TCC is in a district exempt from parking and government run... But it perpetrates the same crimes. It is a great reflection of our overall lack of development theory.
Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: DTowner on July 10, 2014, 01:56:43 pm Does anyone know what enrollment at TCC's downtown campus would have to be to realistic use all the parking it currently has available?
Title: Re: TCC Downtown Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 10, 2014, 03:52:46 pm Does anyone know what enrollment at TCC's downtown campus would have to be to realistic use all the parking it currently has available? How much is available? And how many of the 20,000 enrolled go downtown? (They wouldn't tell me on a quick check of their web site). Has to be several thousand at least. |