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Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Chicken Little on March 28, 2007, 11:40:47 am I hate self-righteous crap. It doesn't matter what side they're on.
Author Jane Smiley offers this at HuffPo: quote:I think Inhofe is a fool, too, that's not the point. The point here is that she never cared about Oklahoma in the first place. Now she's made us a convenient scapegoat. Hey, California-lady, who pollutes more, your state or ours? How many miles a year do you put on your car getting from sprawling suburb to sprawling suburb? What's up with that Colorado River that you sucked dry in order to grow spinich in a semi-desert? Does she know how we changed the way we manage our environment (decades ago) so that we'll never see another dust bowl? Does she know that we are "recycling" old oil fields right this second, making our country a little more energy independent? Does she know about our wind farms? Sure, Inhofe's a joke, but he's not the problem. California's the PROBLEM. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Conan71 on March 28, 2007, 12:02:00 pm I'm curious as to how many people who have taken this "global fever" thing hook, line, and sinker have really bothered to pour over the data from the opposing viewpoint, also by very credible scientists. Inhoffe, has in fact, looked in-depth at both sides of the issue and is satisfied there is too much hype about global warming, as have many other people. He claims to have originally been on board with the GW crowd until he really looked at the issue in-depth.
IMO- it's more political fear-mongering to win votes. For some reason all politicians must think everyone votes based on fear. The only reason I go to HuffPo is to look at Arriana's mug. She's too pretty to be that liberal, well there again: Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Chicken Little on March 28, 2007, 12:07:28 pm quote:There's no "data" from the opposing viewpoint. Global warming is happening because of us (well, California mostly), it's only the consequences of it that are in dispute. It's ignorant for this lady to link recent droughts and wildfires to global warming. I particularly like how she projects her own state's water problems onto us. The majority of the state has an abundance of water; that was an environmental management problem we figured out 80 years ago. They're the ones trying to grow zoysia in a desert and we're the dumb-dumbs. Nice. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Conan71 on March 28, 2007, 01:06:59 pm No data? Huh?
http://epw.senate.gov/pressitem.cfm?party=rep&id=264777 This link is full of other links to data, take your pick. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: sgrizzle on March 28, 2007, 01:15:13 pm quote:There's no "data" from the opposing viewpoint. Global warming is happening because of us (well, California mostly), it's only the consequences of it that are in dispute. It's ignorant for this lady to link recent droughts and wildfires to global warming. [/quote] Look up "medieval Warm period" and you'll find plenty of opposition. Not to mention opposition to the concept of "average planet temperature" and the glacier melting statements. The main reasons being the effects scientists are pointing out are being measured based on very small samples. Saying the ice caps are melting while only being able to sample 5% leaves room for criticism. There are no temperature probes placed evenly around the planet for the last 200 years and even the data supporting global warming shows it cooler now than 1998. Supporting a viewpoint while denying the existence of the other viewpoint is extremely short-sighted. You can't support something when you don't know what you support. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Chicken Little on March 28, 2007, 01:34:31 pm quote:Get with the program, man. Inhofe was the chairman of the committee that pooped out that confused mess. Human-caused global warming is happening, even your poo-page doesn't do much to dispel that. Read it again. The remaining question is, "So what?", that's the one that nobody can answer. In my opinion, there's no good reason for us to continue to eff with mother nature for the next few centuries. That doesn't mean I'm in a panic. As important, the sooner we're off fossil fuels, the sooner we stop bankrolling crazy people around the world who want to blow us up. I'm not particularly worried about droughts, hurricanes, or even sea levels. I'd say there's a much clearer link between oil consumption and mad bombers. That's reason enough to change our habits. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Cubs on March 28, 2007, 01:34:51 pm She claims global warming is causing drought .... this is just wrong. Drought causes warming, warming doesn't cause drought.
And thats as far as I care to read of her article. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: waterboy on March 28, 2007, 01:36:29 pm I like the Huffington site. Read some of the five pages of responses to that piece following. Many of them from OK were much more enlightening than anything I've read in these parts. From both sides. We generally get one side in this region, the oil story.
Inhofe is a dolt who knows where the political money flows from in Northeast OK. Oil. He deserves the scorn of the rest of the country and afterall, we elected him by large margins over smarter, better candidates just because he is republican, so maybe we should shoulder some scorn also. You honestly think Inhofe ever cared about the environment Conan? Ask someone who was around the river during his mayoral administration here. It is reputed (from employees of the health dept. at that time) that he directly ordered the draining of acidic sludge pits into the river around riverparks just to save the oil companies from having to deal with it. What a guy. And just pointing out that California has its own ignorance, which Smiley did also, is very little comfort. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Chicken Little on March 28, 2007, 01:39:57 pm quote: quote:So, are you saying that we are not adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere and that those gases are not trapping heat? Please don't say, "I'm not sure", 'cause everybody but Inhofe is sure at this point. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Chicken Little on March 28, 2007, 01:42:58 pm quote:I fully agree with the first part, but the better answer for the second part is that "Nobody can say, definitively, what the relationship between global warming and drought is." Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Conan71 on March 28, 2007, 02:09:51 pm quote: As opposed to Algore, who stands to profit via his investments in "global fever"- related investments? Algore is of questionable integrity, a walking hypocrite, and poster-boy dolt for the far left. He wouldn't be talking so loudly if he didn't stand to gain either financially or politically, that's been his proven M.O. for over 25 years. He's hardly an altruist. If he doesn't jump into the Democrat race for President, look for him to run as a Green Party candidate. Inhoffe is trying to prevent the country from being dragged into a huge financial sink-hole over questionable science, which is what fully getting into bed with Kyoto would have done. I seriously doubt, CL that you took time to read all the links which were provided in the article I posted, which was my original point. Most people who have eaten the whole global warming scam haven't taken the time to properly analyze what the "other" scientists are saying about it. I started out being alarmed about global warming, but the more I've read about it, the more I'm convinced the science used to support it is far from perfect and even deviates, in some cases, from common scientific and statistical protocol. I will agree with you on one point, I'm tired of sucking off the left tit of the Middle East for our oil. Far as I'm concerned, sell me an alt fuel vehicle that performs as my petroleum-based one does with the same reliability and they can bathe in their own oil as far as I'm concerned. The folly in greenhouse gasses is that EPA-mandated catalytic converters convert CO to CO2. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: cannon_fodder on March 28, 2007, 02:10:59 pm Chicken little, there are many noted scientists that doubt the correlation of pollution and global warming. The problem is, there is a witch hunt to shut them all up. Any scientist that speaks out is labeled and removed from the 'top scientist' club. If you pay attention, it happens all the time.
In fact, just last month the Chief Meteorologist of Oregon was fired for his views on global warming. Saying global warming isn't proven now is like saying communism isn't all bad in the 1950's. Even the most hardened global warming scientist cannot explain how the effects occur, the rate at which warming is taking place, nor if action will have any effects on the process. The best guess has no correlation to actual effect man has had compared to natural climate change. The Earth warms and cools all the time from variations in the level of radiation from the sun, slight tilts in orbit, volcanic eruptions and a host of other phenomenon. Does that mean global warming doesnt exist? No, global warming certainly does exist. For the last 11,000 years the Earth has trended up in temperature and CO2 levels in the air have risen. Evidence suggests the Earth is 7-10 degrees warmer today than 11,000 years ago and aside from brief period (read 50-100 years) of cooler whether it has increased. Further evidence suggests this process is becoming more rapid. C02 buildup has accelerated in the last 150 years and the temperature appears to be rising more rapidly in the short term. We can only compare data from the time of 11,000 years ago to the mid 1800's and from the late 1800's to now. Accurate climate data did not exist prior to the mid 1800's so it must be extrapolated and basically guessed from period prior to the mid 1600's. So we are comparing long term trends for the first 12,000 years with relatively short term events in the last 400 years and most specifically with events in the last 200 years (such as the Little Ice Age). Thus, we KNOW that in the last 150 years C02 has built up faster than the average rate for the last 12,000 years. We also know that the short term temperature has climbed faster than the average for the last 12,000 years. We can INFER that the two have something to do with each other based on a plausible green house effect. However, assuming such as fact is drawing a conclusion where there is only a correlation. It is therefor wise to, and the scientific method demands that we allow dissension of the theory. Such a requirement strengthens the premise as it is able to be revised (if no dissent is allowed it is essentially declare perfect and not subject to revision - the earth is flat) and people repeatedly fail to come up with a better explanation. After enough review, revision, and failed attempts at better theories... the theory becomes a law until something better comes along or it is disproven (for instance, it took Newtons Gravitational Theory (Mechanics) nearly a century to be accepted as law, only to be replaced by Einsteins Theory of Relativity 150 years later). Science must be open to dissent or it becomes religion. Now, even IF global warming is accelerated by humans (which I suspect it is), the next question has to be what, if anything, can we do about it. The current glut of Co2 has accumulated over the last 150 years and is accelerating. Even if the G8 nations stopped emitting industrial Co2 altogether the problem would persist as it took the earth millions if not billions of years to accumulate the Co2 in a non-gaseous carbon state (or 6,000 years if you are a fundamentalist). The current talk is of stopping the acceleration of the damage. But according to global warming alarmists the current levels of Co2 are more than enough to doom us. Which leads to the daunting conclusion that we're screwed. So perhaps I will take that beach front property in Oklahoma. - c_f Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Chicken Little on March 28, 2007, 02:13:18 pm quote:I ain't her whipping boy. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Chicken Little on March 28, 2007, 02:43:17 pm quote: Good point. Let's tally: Inhofe's scientists - 60 IPCC report scientists - 2500+ It's not exactly a coin toss, is it? Gravity is a theory, too. Where are the dissenters? Why is it so hard for you all to accept what an overwhelming body of experts are accepting? If you want a debate, there's plenty of room in the middle, i.e., what are the real effects of global warming? That is all up in the air. But there's no need to sit out there on the fringe with Inhofe and a few other oil industry hacks. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: sgrizzle on March 28, 2007, 02:58:02 pm quote: Is not. (http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/zoom/bumper-sticker-obey.gif) Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: cannon_fodder on March 28, 2007, 03:24:06 pm Chicken Little, there is no way you read my post and came back with that.
I never argued that global warming does not exist. In fact, I chose the fabled middle ground you speak of and discussed the problem of correlation between natural rise and man's contribution. I even discussed what makes a theory into a law and nearly the entire scientific method. For that matter, I even said that I suspect man is accelerating the rate of global warming and then pondered what the implications of that are. You read the introduction to my post and then (incorrectly) guessed my view on the issue and responded. It runs out you were wrong and that I, in fact, agree with you. I'm sorry my post was long, but this is a complex topic and I felt I needed to lay a baseline of facts to explain my belief in global warming and my opposition to those who wish to quell all dissent on the issue. Please read what I have to say before responding. It is akin to letting a speaker finish his point without interrupting. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Wilbur on March 28, 2007, 05:34:56 pm Let me get this straight -
The earth is approx 6,000,000,000 years old. The average temperature for the last 100 years has risen 0.6 degrees. We therefore declare the earth is headed for disaster. The ice age covered how much of North America? Anyone complaining about the 'global warming' that melted all that ice and allowed us to live here? I'm curious as to where data is obtained from 12,000 years ago. Anybody going to claim Earth has never been hotter? Lets go back 6,000,000,000 years and find out. Is global warming happening? You betcha! Is man responsible? The REAL jury is still out. Al Gore preaches global warming, then refuses to sign a pledge to only use the same amount of energy as the average family. Then claims he can buy carbon credits! Is he serious! Lets all tell Jesus we are buying credits for sin. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: TheArtist on March 28, 2007, 05:49:42 pm quote: Look up "medieval Warm period" and you'll find plenty of opposition. Not to mention opposition to the concept of "average planet temperature" and the glacier melting statements. The main reasons being the effects scientists are pointing out are being measured based on very small samples. Saying the ice caps are melting while only being able to sample 5% leaves room for criticism. There are no temperature probes placed evenly around the planet for the last 200 years and even the data supporting global warming shows it cooler now than 1998. Supporting a viewpoint while denying the existence of the other viewpoint is extremely short-sighted. You can't support something when you don't know what you support. [/quote] They can measure more than 5% of Ice Cap melting and other things. Whether you argue the specifics of "average planet temperature" they can measure the temperature all over the planet. They can also measure emissions. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070316164359.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070320103826.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070321153646.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070327122328.htm As for the middle ages, great warming or little ice age. It depends WHERE you look and WHEN. For example even now Great Britan and parts of Europe are experiencing a warming trend. But most of us are aware that one reason GB is warm is because of the current from the Gulf of Mexico. The interesting thing to note is that if things get a bit warmer, ice melts more, this cold water will push the gulf stream away from GB and even though over all it will get warmer GB could experience mini Ice Age conditions once again, for a time. During that mini ice age, parts of the Americas were indeed warmer than usual. (large volcanic eruptions played their part during many of these extreme temperature variations, the warming was during a solar maximum, we are currently not in one) We know that temperatures have fluctuated a lot over time, but its the constancy, causes, and amounts that seem to be present at the moment that are worrisome. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060926072215.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/10/031020055353.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060517082359.htm There are some things that many people at first glance will say is proof that the earth isnt warming, for instance greater amounts of snow in some areas during winter. If one average day its 25 F and another its a warmer 28 F its still cold enough to snow, but the warmer over all temps will put more moisture into the air, thus more snow even though its warmer. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/11/031106052121.htm I am willing to bet that in the next 10 years or so as more current data is collected and more, older historic types of data found, studied and better analyzed,,, we will put the majority of this controversy solidly to rest. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Breadburner on March 28, 2007, 10:00:22 pm If you re-arrange the letters in George Bush's name you get....He Bugs Gore.....
Global Warming is mumbo jumbo.... Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Chicken Little on March 28, 2007, 11:08:46 pm quote:CF, I didn't "guess" at your position. I read your post. It's well-written, but not compelling. What is compelling is that thousands of scientists have endorsed the IPCC Report (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPCC_Fourth_Assessment_Report"), which states that climate warming is "unequivocal" and that "(m)ost of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations." What's also compelling is that ExxonMobile, the world's most profitable corporation, funds contrarian organizations, and even publishes books (http://"http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=ShatterConsensusBook") in support of an organized disinformation campaign. So, forgive me if I'm skeptical. I'm old enough to remember when another group of "scientists" told me that there was no connection between tobacco and lung cancer. Saying that science is, by definition, an open-ended investigation is one thing. But asking me to give credence to a few paid shills simply because they support a contrary position is simply bad advice. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: jamesrage on March 29, 2007, 02:03:51 am quote:Do environuts who run around squawking save the environment while at the same time being a major contributer to the problem irritate you too? Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: jamesrage on March 29, 2007, 02:30:53 am quote: SPeaking of funding http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200701/NAT20070123a.html At a time when the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) is censuring free market organizations for accepting donations from ExxonMobil, critics have turned the spotlight back onto the UCS, its left-wing positions, and its own funding practices. In a recent report, the UCS charged that organizations are using oil industry money to create public uncertainty about what it calls "consensus" about climate change and the role of human activity in affecting temperatures see related story. Organizations named in the report have denied the claims. snip.. But critics say it is an openly political group. According to James Dellinger, executive director of Greenwatch - a project of the Capital Research Center - the UCS has a long financial association with elements that have a "partisan view of science." snip.. The UCS receives substantial donations from liberal-leaning foundations, and a number of the donations are earmarked for specific studies, used to promote positions on issues including the environment, disarmament and criticism of missile defense initiatives. Private foundations cumulatively spend tens of millions of dollars annually on climate change projects, according to information made available through the foundations' websites. Donations to the UCS in recent years include the following: * 2000 - a $25,000 Carnegie Corporation of New York grant for "dissemination of a report on National Missile Defense." * 2002 - a $1 million Pew Memorial Trust grant "to support efforts to increase the nation's commitment to energy efficiency and renewable energy as a cornerstone of a balanced and environmentally sound energy policy." * 2003 - a $500,000 Energy Foundation grant over two years "to continue to support a national renewable portfolio standard education and outreach effort." * 2004 - a $50,000 Energy foundation grant "to design and implement the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative carbon market in the Northeast." * 2004 - a $100,000 Energy foundation grant "to study the impacts of climate change on California using the latest climate modeling." * 2004 - a $600,000 Energy foundation grant over two years "to promote renewable energy policy at the federal and state levels, with a focus on the Midwest, the Northeast, and California." In a study published in 2005, the George C. Marshall Institute(GMI) explored funding for global warming studies and reported that the UCS was among the top five recipients of grants dispersed for climate studies. http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6631 UCS has received funding from the Beldon Fund, the Compton Foundation, the Educational Foundation of America, the J.M. Kaplan Fund, the Scherman Foundation, the Blue Moon Fund, the Ford Foundation, the Carnegie Corporation of New York, the Energy Foundation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the Joyce Foundation, the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, the David and Lucile Packard Foundation, the Turner Foundation, and Pew Charitable Trusts. http://www.marshall.org/pdf/materials/289.pdf Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: cannon_fodder on March 29, 2007, 08:39:42 am Chicken Little:
You are then old enough to remember the "Global Cooling" scare of the 1970's. Or the acid rain of the 1980's. Or the we're running out of clean water thing in the 1990's. All of which have turned out to be grossly exaggerated as threats to our society. Of course, I hardly need to point out that GLOBAL COOLING was being sung a couple decades ago as THE THREAT to the world by the same people now mongering about global warming. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15391426/site/newsweek/ and that's why science must be open to dissent. If the same atmosphere had taken place in 1975 we would have enacted massive legislation to emit massive amounts of C02 to help deal with global cooling only to find out we were wrong. Thank god rational thought and science prevailed. Anyway, I agree with you that the correlation is compelling and it is VERY LIKELY that global warming is being accelerated by man. I also agree that the funding of an organization puts its findings in question. But not all of the scientists that are being discredited are funded by your hated oil companies nor anyone else with ulterior motives. Simply put, anyone disagreeing with the notion is labeled a hack, a stooge, or an idiot and cast aside. You dont have to give anyone credence, but you should listen to the dissent and consider any evidence they present. Only at that time can you decide they are a hack and ignore their findings. Otherwise you are operating on your belief and not the evidence. Again, making global warming a religion and casting all heretics aside. Saying, "I have looked over their theories and they dont seem to be as good as the majorities" is a much stronger statement than "they are paid tools for the oil industry I ignore them." Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Chicken Little on March 29, 2007, 08:51:59 am quote:Yup. That's why I started this thread. It's not so much because they want the world to change its ways, but because they are hypocrites. This California lady is extremely irritating because she seems to think that its okay to hold Oklahoma accountable for problems that are far more the creation of her own state. I think she does this mainly because she didn't give a d*mn about Oklahoma in the first place. Further, she thinks we have water shortages (like Cali does), which indicates that she knows nothing about my state. It may be true in the extreme west, but the majority of the state is water rich. Finally, she seems to think that recent droughts and wildfires are the result of global warming. That opinion is not supported by science, but even if it were true, they're the pollutors. Oklahoma? Not so much. It's the enviromental version of "blame the victim". Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: cannon_fodder on March 29, 2007, 09:33:34 am In that light:
"All wounds, in a democracy, are ultimately self-inflicted" Lets remind her of that next time an earth quake hits California. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Chicken Little on March 29, 2007, 10:21:46 am quote:Nice. And your point is well taken. Just because there are hacks and paid stooges out there spreading disinformation, does not mean that dissenting theories are bad. In fact, they are essential in scientific processes. I've been shrill on that point. Sorry. Thanks. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: rwarn17588 on March 29, 2007, 10:43:56 am Those who chose "The Great Global Warming Swindle" to bolster their arguments had better think again.
Several of the scientists interviewed in the program have been revealed as cranks, and others said their views were misrepresented. http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/03/13/channel-4s-problem-with-science/ Those who accuse the global warming crowd of having a political agenda are pots calling the kettle black. Cecil Adams, author of The Straight Dope science column, larges echoes Chicken Little's reasoned, pragmatic approach. http://www.straightdope.com/columns/060407.html "So, if nothing can be done to reduce CO2, should we quit worrying, buy SUVs, and party on? On the contrary. Fossil fuels are to the developing world today what the American forest was to this country two centuries ago -- a cheap, easily exploited resource that permits extraordinary economic growth for the short time that it lasts. The U.S., through its huge trade deficits and job exports, is now financing the industrialization of Asia, a result we didn't intend but may as well make the most of -- clearly we want teeming nations like China, India, and Indonesia to become prosperous, stable societies. Making that happen, though, will take decades of steady investment and jigawatts of energy, the price of which will climb steeply once fossil fuels run out. Hastening that none-too-distant day through frivolous use of the supplies we now have would be stupid (although fossil fuel depletion will also end the emissions problem). A more realistic approach is to say, OK, we're going to burn this fuel and cope with whatever dire result, but let's put the stuff to good use while we've got it. That means distributing improved technology to use energy more efficiently and pollute less. Amazingly, just such an approach was agreed to last year when the U.S., Australia, China, India, Japan, and South Korea formed the Asia-Pacific Partnership on Clean Development and Climate, which may go down as Dubya's saving grace after having screwed the pooch in Iraq." Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Hometown on March 30, 2007, 09:46:23 am Mr. Little, you know I'm a big fan of yours but I have to tell you that when I returned to Tulsa from California I couldn't believe what I found. We don't have smog checks here. You know all these old smokers you see rolling around Tulsa. You don't even see cars that old in California. They wouldn't pass a smog check.
And then there is recycling. In San Francisco we literally recycled almost all of our garbage. They even recycle wet garbaqe into compost. My impression is that most of the people here don't recycle anything. When I see college educated people throwing bottles in the garbage I think what is wrong with you. When I got back here and saw everyone lined up in their smokey cars waiting for a teller I thought gosh, you don't even see tellers in California. It's almost all ATMs. And people don't sit in their cars waiting for one. It's like finding out the people of Oklahoma don't wear shoes. We have become a third world community. Oklahoma is a net negative for the nation. And yes in a Democracy you get what you deserve. No one else sent Inhofe to Washington. We did. Now I'm trying to figure out why. The closest I've come to an answer is that we were settled late. We attracted the economic down and outs with the free land grants. We are a little like the Germans -- slow to civilize. The road to something better begins by seeing where you really stand. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Conan71 on March 30, 2007, 10:24:55 am If Tulsa sucks so bad, we have so many rednecks with smoky cars, the job market sucks, we elect backwardsass politicians, there are too many conservative trolls like myself, etc. Why exactly did you move back here, and why are you still here?
Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Hawkins on March 30, 2007, 10:43:28 am quote: LOL, we don't even have automobile inspections now! How about that! As for Inhofe, I'm sorry, but the guy is a hardcore Republican, and lately this party has become so wrapped up with protecting big business corporate America, that I can't believe him as a nuetral source when he says global warming is a hoax. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: waterboy on March 30, 2007, 10:54:08 am quote: How many different ways can you old conservatives repackage the old 60's bumper sticker, "America, Love it or Leave it". You're better than that Conan. We can't just overlook our failures and project ignorance onto everyone who dares tell the truth. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Conan71 on March 30, 2007, 12:30:36 pm quote: I wasn't referring to the U.S., just Tulsa. I wasn't regurgitating that old saw either, I just hadn't tweaked my friend HT in awhile. I fail to understand why people re-locate to an area then proceed to crap on how bad the area is. I'm always willing to share some of my half-full glass with those whose glass is half-empty. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about you WB, your tweak is coming. [;)] Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Conan71 on March 30, 2007, 12:34:07 pm quote: Uh, lately???? Hasn't that always been the battle cry of the Democrats? Both parties have big business contributors, and both parties protect their own big business interests. I dare you to Google contribution lists to the major Democrat power-brokers and you'll see my point. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Chicken Little on March 30, 2007, 03:24:30 pm quote: I couldn't agree more with this last statement. Ms Smiley stands in the middle of a freeway in the middle of a state that produces four times the greenhouse gasses that Oklahoma does. She talks about holding Oklahomans accountable for global warming. In the end, Californians are bigger contributors. Tit for tat, she loses. Her angry little post is built upon a logical fallacy. For an author...even a fiction writer, that's hard to forgive. Here's the icing on the cake. I read in the comments of her HuffPost (good read, btw) that she owns horses. She may save tinfoil and poop in a compost pile, but I can almost guarantee you that she's got a bigger carbon footprint than any Oklahoman reading this. Californians may be great, but this one is a smug idiot who thinks she found an easy target. Not unrelated, in the comments, I was surprised to read from several people that "Okie" is still a common, derogatory, euphamism for poor white folks out there. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Hometown on March 30, 2007, 09:37:07 pm quote: Conan, you are one cute little troll. Hey, I’m an optimist at heart and I want to believe in Tulsa’s future. You only get one hometown and Tulsa is mine. I don’t know how we are going to become better partners in protecting our environment. But I would like to see what remains of Oklahoma’s energy business help build good will for their corporations and set a new standard in corporate responsibility. I'm like to see regular inspections of everyone’s vehicles and greatly increased recycling efforts. I'm like to see Tulsans get out of their cars more. I'm like see less fried foods and more baked and grilled foods. Less cigarette smoking. More exercise. Less Inhofe, Coburn and Sullivan. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Conan71 on April 02, 2007, 10:58:48 am Dig up someone better than Genteges next time then. [}:)]
Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Hawkins on April 02, 2007, 11:24:06 am quote: Actually I was referring to the fact that now it is considered an act of terrorism to free animals from a company testing lab. This was one of the last great legacies of the Republican controlled congress that thankfully has been ousted. Using the term 'terrorism' to protect financial interests is the last straw for me. That is what this law was all about. Holding someone without a lawyer, under the terrorism act, for breaking a beagle out of test lab is... I just can't believe it. The 9-11 hijackers won the war that day, thanks to the republicans, who have since trashed the constitution--And I'm talking about the right to legal representation here, not the right to steal animals if there are any smart-alecks out there, who would seek to twist what I'm saying. -- Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Hawkins on April 02, 2007, 11:32:23 am And on the subject of Republicans guarding big business--which is what Inhofe is doing, let's not forget about Senator Orrin Hatch!
This guy wanted a law that would make it legal for the music industry to download a virus that would destroy a computer's hard-drive if the user attempted an illegal download. LOL- steal .99 from the music industry, and lose your $1,000 computer! That is the measure of the Republican's resolve on this issue. Middle-class computer owners, animal rights groups--U.S. citizens without a right to a lawyer--and even the environment itself! It all takes a far back seat to the mighty corporate engine in the mind of Inhofe. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: cannon_fodder on April 02, 2007, 11:43:11 am Point of order Hawkins, the Supreme Court today denied Cert. for the prisoners at Club Gitmo saying they have no exhausted remedies available to them.
As crappy as that may sound to you, it means the Constitution is working. The plight of those men has been brought to our highest court and has been turned away. Our Constitutional court has had the chance and has not stepped in, so the talk of trashing the Constitution is hyperbole. Per animals, I believe you are referring to the media's term "eco terrorism." IMHO, this isnt using the term in the same manner as referring to Muslim Extremists trying to kill everyone, its just a quick reference way to refer to crimes stemming from a "tree hugger." To the best of my knowledge, there is not a special terrorism law against such people nor are they charged with related existing terrorism offenses. They are charged with the underlying property crimes. Perhaps laws designed to stop people from taking actions to instill fear can be used to prosecute hate crimes, terrorism AND other crimes... but I do not believe they are labeled terrorists. and if you want to point to obscure examples of congressmen proposing or supporting laws toward a single industry/company, I'm sure we can dig up plenty of examples on both sides of the isle. When MOST people talk about being business friendly, they want to see government make an atmosphere conducive to business. NOT legislate for particular players (which is, in the end, harmful to business). Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: cannon_fodder on April 09, 2007, 09:08:20 am Yet another scientific hack, this one a lead researcher at MIT, comes out with his doubts over global warming in Newseek:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17997788/site/newsweek/ He uses science to explain his doubts. Gasp! quote: Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Conan71 on April 09, 2007, 10:57:29 am CF- you are dead-a$$ wrong. Don't you read the papers? Global warming cancelled a four-game baseball series in Cleveland this weekend, and was responsible for scores of new record low temps all over the country this weekend. We must do something now! [}:)]
Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: cecelia on April 10, 2007, 10:04:22 am The global warming deniers - including the one from MIT - have been funded by the oil and gas industry, coal, trucking and the like.
As has Inhofe. You might want to take a look at who funds him. And thanks to America's hatred of education and teachers, and its hostility to science - wait, better said, Oklahoma's hatred of teachers and education, and hostility toward science, people have bought the deniers' claims lock, stock and barrel. So the deniers get richer and richer, while the glaciers are nearly gone and our weather gets weirder and weirder and all of us suffer the consequences. Sad state of affairs. And not only our children and grandchildren, but we will pay dearly for it. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: cannon_fodder on April 10, 2007, 10:19:43 am I take it you didn't actually READ the article there cc.
This is not a vast conspiracy and Im not even saying it isnt possible or even likely, I'm simply laughing at how Global Warming has become the new religion. You are not allowed to doubt it or you are a denier paid off by oil who hates education. Thank you for proving my point. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Conan71 on April 10, 2007, 10:53:21 am quote: Yep, we sure hate our teachers. $3000 pay raise last year on the backs of gamblers, no problem. That's how we show our hate. Pay them a salary that works out to about the same or higher as the average worker gets, only at about 3/4 of the total annual hours the industrial worker must put in. That's real hate. There is a state of hysteria being created in the United States. Were the poster boy for the cause (Algore) not heavily invested in green technologies and "carbon credits" I might tend to give him more credibility. How about balancing your commentary on those "deniers" who stand to profit from de-bunking global warming, with the green technology companies who stand to gain financially by supporting scientists who are promoting the theory? There are also a lot of us who believe there are few altruists in government. If a Congressman takes on agendas of those who helped get them there in the first place, they will be re-elected and be able to glom on to more power. I think we all want a cleaner environment, it's just there are some of us who don't care to be constantly beat over the head with hysteria. Especially when climatalogical science is still in it's relative infancy. To wit: the global cooling scare of the mid '70's. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15391426/site/newsweek/ The scare about global cooling was smog blocking out the sun's rays. We developed ways to convert smog to what we thought were more innocuous gasses (CO2) and now we are told that is causing warming. Increased Btu radiation due to over-population and a higher demand for consumer goods and transportation could be just as much to blame as CO2. The truth is, no one knows for certain. We could go back to living in caves, and we still would observe changes in the climate. Creating hysteria over uncertainties upsets some of us. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: cecelia on April 10, 2007, 12:09:32 pm Well, the two of you just proved my point. :D
The facts speak for themselves. All it takes is a little googling of the words Exxon and funding and global warming, as well as a few minutes of investigation into who funds Inhofe's et als' political careers. All it takes is knowing that no scientist - and I mean scientist - not paid shill - disputes global warming is happening and will have catastrophic impact. But I learned long ago that trying to cast light on ignorance for those who willfully choose to remain such is a useless pursuit. So I leave you in your sad puddle of ignorance with your puffed of feelings of pride for supporting those who have gotten very, very rich by simply lying to you and totally screwing you. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Conan71 on April 10, 2007, 12:48:21 pm And good riddance as you climb back into your sad puddle of narrow-mindedness and mis-information.
It never fails, present someone with the logic that there are stooges on the payroll of companies on her side of the issue, and rather than to consider it, just slink off and dismiss other comments. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: iplaw on April 10, 2007, 12:52:22 pm quote:Bye! Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Conan71 on April 10, 2007, 01:16:54 pm Ever wonder how newbies just happen to sign on and puke on a particular subject then disappear? Shill poster? Cecilia? Aox? Teddy Jack?
Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: cannon_fodder on April 10, 2007, 02:37:19 pm Didnt I post to a scientist that had no funding from oil companies? The guy was employed by MIT. Likewise, previously I cited to the story about the Oregon State Climatologist getting fired and he had no oil funding.
What worse, I Googled Al Gore and Global warming and came up with all sorts of stuff. I think Al Gore must be funding the entire global warming "science" because a Google search said so. It is closed minded people like you who have created a religion out of global warming and ignore the science. Even Roger Revelle states that the evidence for global warming is not persuasive enough to warrant drastic action. Probably just another paid shill of the oil companies... (go google him and then come back and talk). Without further research we cannot know what is causing the warming of the Earth nor how to help slow it. We have a good indication, but we need to learn more. Why are you afraid to try and learn more? Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Conan71 on April 11, 2007, 12:14:41 pm Carbon credits a farce:
http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/50077/ Caution, long article, but very well worth reading and the commentary that follows. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: cannon_fodder on April 19, 2007, 07:14:45 am Now some hack professor that retired from NASA and went to work for U of Alabama is getting paid off by the oil companies.
quote: My point here is that there are not just one or two oil industry hacks doubting this. Think for yourself and try to understand WHY scientists came to their consensus. In this instance, they have very little at this point to back up their theory. Hopefully climatology gets more advanced and they will have a better understanding of why the Earth is warming and what can stop the trend. Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Wilbur on April 19, 2007, 07:47:49 am From USAToday:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/weather/2007/04/could_global_wa.html?csp=34 Now global warming is blamed for weakening hurricanes. How long ago was it that global warming was blamed for the increase and strength of hurricanes? I guess when 'your' science doesn't match reality, just change the science! This planet is 6,000,000,000 years old. Do we really think a few years of human infestation is enough to destroy Earth? Title: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Conan71 on April 19, 2007, 08:15:50 am Global warming is actually going to result in global cooling.[:o)]
I think the global warming scientists are funded by the "big bicycle" lobby. [}:)] Title: Re: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Breadburner on June 04, 2018, 06:26:01 am Another Dandy...!!!
Title: Re: California Greenie Issues Ultimatum to Oklahoma Post by: Moderator on June 04, 2018, 07:26:16 am Non-substantive post just to revive an ancient thread while we have a thread on this topic still going.
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