The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Brad Lund granted two-year lease to Taft Stadium for soccer team
Former chief executive officer of the Oklahoma City Blazers plans to house a North American Soccer League team in the renovated stadium.
BY RHIANNON WALKER Staff Writer rwalker@opubco.com • Published: June 17, 2013


Same story, this time with a few more details....  

Brad Lund and Bob Funk Jr. faced off Monday at Oklahoma City Public Schools over the lease for Taft Stadium. Both sides were allotted 15 minutes to present their arguments for why their company should receive the Board of Education's approval. Funk, the owner and president of Prodigal LLC, implored the board to approve his request to use Taft as the home of a USL team. Lund, the managing partner of Sold Out Strategy, wanted the board to grant him the lease, so a NASL team could be housed at Taft.

After both sides presented and answered the questions of the board members who required clarification, the board deliberated its decision.

In a majority ruling, Lund was awarded the rights to Taft's two-year lease plus a renewal option.

“It's a big day for sports in Oklahoma City,” Lund said. “We're going to be bringing an extremely high level of world-class soccer to Taft Stadium. Personally it's a dream of mine. I grew up playing, I met my wife playing soccer, and it's a special, special day for Oklahoma City, not just soccer fans, but sports fans in general.”

Monday afternoon's school board meeting was not just a competition between two rival sports agencies; it was also a clash of the old and new hockey regimes in Oklahoma City.

Lund is the former chief executive officer with Express Sports who owned the Oklahoma City Blazers. During Lund's 16 seasons with Central Hockey League franchise, the Blazers had the best attendance average in all of minor league hockey (9,123), and on five occasions were ranked No. 1 in all of minor league attendance.

Funk Jr., is the current owner of the Oklahoma City Barons and the former co-owner of the Oklahoma City RedHawks. Funk was also the head of the Blazers ownership group. In 2010, it was announced that the Barons would be the Edmonton Oilers American Hockey League affiliate.

“(Prodigal Sport) are good people, and they had a very nice presentation, and we feel real fortunate,” Lund said.

Oklahoma City FC's inaugural season will take place at the conclusion of Taft's renovations in 2014. Once reopened, the stadium will host the revived New York Cosmos, which in its heyday featured soccer-legend Pelé on its roster.

Upon formal approval on July 25, 2013, Oklahoma City will become the smallest market in the NASL. The NASL is the second highest tier in the United States soccer pyramid, with 12 teams in its league Lund projects the team will play 22 to 30 home games and has agreed to pay $4,500 per event at the stadium. The OKC Public Schools will receive 15 percent net paid in concessions, and OKC FC will earmark a $2 per ticket surcharge to support Fields and Futures benefiting Oklahoma City Public Schools.

A video board system was another addition Lund wanted to make to the renovated stadium. He explained it would enhance the fan experience for not only OKC FC's professional soccer games, but all prep sporting events at Taft, as well. Through its partnership with Fields and Futures, OKC FC will commit $100,000 toward upgrades to the proposed new score board.

As it stands, 50 percent of OKC FC's marketing efforts are focused within the Hispanic community, and it would continue to be proactive in Oklahoma City's communities by promoting diversity through soccer. Lund said he's already anticipating a strong showing from the city's most loyal group, the Red Dirt Brigade.

“That's the unique thing about soccer is the particular fan club,” Lund said. “There's one, and they're vibrant, and they're loud, and they're creative. (The Red Dirt Brigade) became organized in Seattle and Portland before they ever played one game, so we've already challenged (them) to show us what's next.”

Taft Stadium was completed as part of a New Deal project in 1934, and hosted football games for Northwest Classen and John Marshall. The stadium has played host to everything from All-State games to stock-car races.

In January, Oklahoma City Public Schools announced Taft Stadium would undergo renovations beginning in May. The Oklahoma City-landmark would undergo a 10-month, $9.7 million face-lift.

The makeover is being funded by the 2007 district-wide bond issue and other Oklahoma City Public Schools' funds.

As opposed to the 20,000 people the stadium can currently hold, the renovated stadium will hold only 7,500 people.

On TWITTER:

Foundation for OKCPS @FoundationOKCPS
Board clerk clarifies for Chair that the board needs to choose either Prodigal or Sold Out Strategies for leasing Taft Stadium
7:31 PM - 17 Jun 2013

 Foundation for OKCPS @FoundationOKCPS
Board votes 6-1 to approve to contract with Sold Out Strategies ... Massenat dissents.
7:41 PM - 17 Jun 2013

Foundation for OKCPS @FoundationOKCPS
Lund: Rent for $4500/game, 22-30 home games, 15% net paid to @OKCPS of concessions, labor will be shared, OKCPS retains all signage #OKC
7:08 PM - 17 Jun 2013

 Foundation for OKCPS @FoundationOKCPS
Lund: We'll earmark $2/ticket to Fields & Futures program - love Taft, but would like to earmark $100k to video board for cap improvement
7:09 PM - 17 Jun 2013

FYI, here's the proceedings regarding playing pro soccer at a renovated Taft Stadium on NW23rd & Penn with a 7500 seat capacity... OKC had TWO groups lobbying for this, one led by Bob Funk Jr (Prodigal) selling OKCPS on the business model of USL PRO http://uslpro.uslsoccer.com/
...while Brad Lund from Sold Out Strategies http://soldoutstrategies.com/ sells OKCPS on the business model of the NASL  http://www.nasl.com/

FoundationOKCPS recorded live on 6/17/13 at 5:33 PM CDT
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/34506371

Bob Funk Jr. from Prodigal's USL PRO salespitch starts at 00:44:30 and runs for about 15 minutes plus another 15 minutes of Q&A...
Brad Lund's Sold Out Strategies' salespitch starts at 01:15:30 and runs about the same length...
If you feel like watching only one presentation, watch the second one....
NASL Commish Bill Peterson is in attendance and gives his thoughts... I believe that made a BIG DIFFERENCE in why the school board voted 6-1 in favor of the NASL.

***the NASL presentation was heavy on symbolism connected to its league history in the 70s & 80s and the legacy of the New York Cosmos and the prospect of playing them in OKC... Yet NOT ONE TIME was the city of Tulsa and our history and legacy with the Roughnecks ever mentioned.  NOT ONCE.   >:(

Taft Stadium
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/970731_10151627331058643_1456612478_n.jpg)

Interesting historical note: Taft Stadium was once considered one of the top auto racing venues in the country for midget race cars.  Many future Indy 500 drivers raced there at one time or another from the late 1930's into the 1950's or '60's.

Another interesting note:  the Oklahoma City Slickers (hmmm, is nickname "City Slickers" or "Slickers?)" played at Taft Stadium back in the day...
Sad, but I probably was at that game... oi, I'm old...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB15hzWuL4I[/youtube]

Terms for an expansion NASL team in Okie City:
Summary:

    $3M startup cost
    $2M-$3M annual operating cost
    They will invest $100K for a video board at Taft
    Will pay $3500 / game + % of concessions + $2/ticket to existing charity that helps underprivileged kids get free tickets (Wes Welker Foundation, I believe)
    Existing amateur (PDL / WPSL) teams will still exist and will also play at Taft.
    NASL team will start in 2015
    NASL is the 2nd tier league in the US, just below Major League Soccer
    Taft seats 7500. The amateur teams (OKC FC men/women) have been averaging 1200+ at OCU so far and the atmosphere is great.
    Will specifically target Latino population, perhaps even have some games at Capitol Hill stadium.
    NASL team will be named the Huh? (fill in the blank)

Nice pics TulsaRufnex of our ancient old Taft Stadium which was built by the WPA in the 1930s.
 
You would think that a city of 1.3 million metropolitan area would have a decent outdoor facility within its city proper limits--well OKC has a lot to be desired.  

Gaylord Family Memorial Stadium is the only decent facility in the OKC metro area when it comes to an outdoor sports facility; it would take an act of congress to use this facility for anything other than OU football (excluding one time events).  Remember the Oklahoma Outlaws of the old USFL; they first tried to secure a lease to use then 75,000-seat Owen Memorial Stadium.  The university officials made it so difficult with their demands for stadium rent and a cut of food concessions that it would not have been profitable for the team to survive in OKC.  Tulsa's 40,000-seat Skelly Stadium was the best choice.  The league soon became history.

The North American Soccer League (NASL) is second to the MLS and it will not require the high operating costs of maintaining the strick standards within MLS.  I remember going to the Taft when the Oklahoma 'City Slickers' played there.  It was a nice family gathering; however, it couldn't hold a candle to the Tulsa Rufnex days in the old NASL and watching them bring down the mighty New York Comos.

I'm sure the NASL will be expanding.  Tulsa would be an excellent choice.   I still believe that Tulsa should be attempting to invest $150 million into a soccer specific stadium in attracting an MLS franchise and bring the state a top tier major league soccer franchise.

That would be great.  But $150 mil?  According to Wikipedia (so you KNOW it's true), FC Dallas stadium cost $93 mil in 2013 dollars.  It's a nice place.  I gues we could have a helluva place for $150m. 

Honestly, if I had won the Powerball back when it was 500 mil I was planning to try to lure a team here and build a stadium.  Even picked out a spot for it.  :)

Didn't Oneok Field come in at around $40 million?

The closest comparable is San Antonio's new 8,000 seat stadium built for the NASL ($35mil?), but expandable to Major League Soccer specs...
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/scorpions/article/Scorpions-finally-have-their-8-000-seat-field-of-4429684.php

In other news, Bob Funk Jr. evidently still has plans to bring a USL PRO team to Oklahoma City which would put it in direct competition with Brad Lund's NASL team...

Pro soccer: Oklahoma City expected to join United Soccer League
Prodigal LLC expected to bring in franchise despite arrival of NASL team in 2015.
BY RHIANNON WALKER, Staff Writer, rwalker@opubco.com • Published: June 28, 2013 [/i]
http://newsok.com/pro-soccer-oklahoma-city-expected-to-join-united-soccer-league/article/3857297


Here are the divisions of American soccer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_soccer_league_system
1.  Major League Soccer
2.  NASL
3.  USL PRO
4.  NPSL & PDL (Tulsa is in NPSL and OKC has a team in PDL, both started play this year)
5.  USASA

TulsaRufnex:

Brad Lund did one hell of a marketing job for Bob Funk Sr.,  when he was with the Blazers as GM (team averaged 9,000 per game).  He eventually got exhausted.  NASL and the USL will both be targeting Oklahoma City's untapped limited soccer market.  I would give the edge to Lund because of the fact that Taft will have undergone renovation and Lund has the skills and the marketing strategy advantage over Bob Funk Jr.

The Oklahoma City sports market is almost maxed-out.  Most of the efforts for marketing by Lund will be toward OKC's 110,00 hispanic population.

http://newsok.com/hispanic-population-increases-in-the-oklahoma-city-metro-area/article/3689173

Newsflash:  It's official... we now have a pi$$ing match between Funk Jr and Lund... and a lawsuit...

Soccer: Pro soccer's future in OKC will go through courtroom
In response to a “cease and desist” letter sent by the United Soccer Leagues, a lawsuit has been filed by a group wanting to bring a North American Soccer League team to the city.
BY RHIANNON WALKER, Staff Writer, rwalker@opubco.com • Published: July 1, 2013
http://newsok.com/pro-soccers-future-in-okc-will-go-through-courtroom/article/3858192


It's really strange.... from my perspective, the reason Lund would appear to have the upper hand (fans and the general public) is largely due to having a team in the USL right now. (Oklahoma City FC competes in the USL's Premier Development League)  If Lund had secured a team in Tulsa's league, the NPSL, then the USL wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

***TULSANOW FORUM OFFER***... if any of you want to be with the crazy group behind the south goal for the game tonight against Club America U20, I am offering $10 tickets at the tailgate starting at 5pm and online (PayPal) at http://tulsaroughnecks.com/Tulsa_Athletics_NPSL.php ... I am shutting down PayPal at approx. 2pm this afternoon.  Otherwise, tickets are available at the box office for $15 and $20.  Our supporters group will be entering the stadium in somebody's biga$$ military vehicle... not sure if that's the most politically correct idea for this particular game, but hey...  8)

So what is it that prevents Tulsa from having anything more than bottom tier minor league sports?  Double A baseball against a bunch of Texas suburbs, Double A hockey in the same boat.  Now an amateur soccer team that is doing well (including an announced crowd of 5700 for a friendly match last night that had no bearing on any standings), but why was the first step in a city with a metropolitan population of right around 1,000,000 starting at the very bottom rung?  And now OKC is awarded an NASL team with a stadium of 8,000 capacity?  The Athletics are getting 3000-4000 per game and showed last night that they can do significantly better if the competition is right.  And they're doing it without much promotion and with almost no coverage by the media (I've seen a few articles but not a single recap in the paper from last night's game).  Drillers stadium's capacity was 10,000, and the way the field is set up can do temporary bleachers in the outfield for a better view.  I sat down the old first base line last night behind the dugout and it was a fine view.  

Why is NASL seemingly not even an option for Tulsa?  Drillers Stadium could be fixed up a bit more and would be great for NASL to prove its viability with a long term hope of supporting a soccer stadium downtown.  Instead, I'm guessing were fourth tier for the long haul.  Hope I'm wrong and that there is some talks in the works to move up.  The Athletics games are a ton of fun and I've never really been a soccer fan until now.

In Tuesday's online edition of Tulsa World, this story popped up... http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.a...ccer_team/20130703_235_B2_OKLAHO528112?subj=2
However, in Tuesday's print edition, the writer (from The Oklahoman) has some additional copy and quotes not found in any online versions of the story I've come across thus far...

Whichever league gets Tulsa; the USL-Pro or NASL there won't be a stadium big enough in Tulsa to hold the interest generated with the right marketing mix.  

Tulsa is much bigger metro-wide now than when the Roughnecks played in 40,000-seat Skelly Stadium (currently Chapam).  In 1980 Tulsa had a metro population right at 750,000; now you have eclipsed 1 million.

I know Chapman (artifical turf) would not be an option for the MLS (requires grass); however does the NASL and/or USL Pro allow for playing on artificial turf?

We appear to be in the catbird seat for this fight between Bob Funk Jr/USL Pro and Brad Lund/NASL... don't look now, but Funk Jr has a plan... seems that both leagues may have a heightened interest in Tulsa, at least for the short term...

Prodigal, ADG to build soccer stadium in Oklahoma City
BY RHIANNON WALKER, Staff Writer, rwalker@opubco.com • Published: July 16, 2013
http://newsok.com/prodigal-adg-to-build-soccer-stadium-in-oklahoma-city/article/3862781


It will be interesting to see what happens in the next two to three years.
The Tulsa Athletics are in the NPSL which, along with the PDL, are leagues that have very short seasons to accommodate NCAA and NAIA student athletes on their rosters.
As much as I really love the local flavor of the team and the outstanding grassroots support, it's gotta be difficult to only have 8 revenue generating homes games (including Club America exhibition AND our home playoff game against 'Nooga).  Parking was STOOPID last Saturday night due to dozens of Winnebagos parked hapharzardly in the parking lots we use...

A full season as either USL Pro or NASL would give the team a full season extending through August (USL Pro) or have a split spring/fall schedule (NASL).
USL Pro has an expansion fee that last I checked was $250,000 while the NASL expansion fee is $1.5 million...

This stadium debacle with the announcement that Prodigal LLC & ADG are teaming up to build a soccer-specific stadium in Oklahoma City with an initial seating of 7,000.  The stadium will be designed to eventually expand to 20,000-plus should Funk decide to acquire membership into the MLS, which he has stated as his goal.

Meanwhile,Taft Stadium (15,000-seats) is being downsized to comfortably accommodate 7,000; this is the facility that Brad Lund wrestled away from Bob Funk's group.  Funk is furious and is opening-up a can of w/a and a generous wallet on Brad Lund...

A base price for a stadium of this magintude will easily exceed $30 million with an expanded 20,000-plus to put the final cost near $100 million--that's a conservative figure.

What a dilemma?

I guess it must be in the Lund nature to piss people off.

When will the sports geniuses realize that it makes sense for Tulsa and OKC to have competing teams in the same league? Local rivalries always produce the best attendance and atmosphere. Oilers/Blazers/Thunder proved that.

Not really in the last few seasons, when Lund was busy running the Oilers into the ground.

Anyone hear anything about New York getting a second MLS franchise and Miami getting into the MLS?

True. Of course I was referring to the better times back in the day.
Regardless, instate rivalries played out on the field would be more entertaining and much better for our communities than the one being played out by a couple of high rollers who should be on the same team.

EXCLUSIVE:  OKC NASL group planning to build riverfront 9k to 14k seat soccer-specific stadium
http://eastwordnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=178&ArticleID=4071

So... let me get this straight... Tulsa can attract over 3k fans per game at the old ballpark the same year OKC attracts about 1,100 fans per game playing in separate leagues at roughly the same level (4th Div) but it's somehow OKC who has TWO GROUPS trying to secure a team, a future MLS bid, and a soccer specific stadium?

/facepalm

https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=562161053830218

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/919385_10200615485961993_1024958273_o.jpg)

I think the constitution now requires that all Tulsa sports teams be at least one level below that of Oklahoma City.  It must be because we seem to be disallowed from moving to AAA in baseball or hockey and can only have d-league basketball.  If OKC is moving to the NASL, we are required to stick with NPSL.  It's the law (or it must be).

It is a bit disappointing that someone in Tulsa doesn't step up to the plate and give Tulsa fans what they deserve:

AAA levels in:

Hockey - American Hockey League   Venue:  BOK Arena  hockey seating capacity 17,000.
     Possible rivals:  OKC, San Antonio, Texas (Cedar Park-Austin)...

Baseball - Pacific Coast League Venue:  OneOK Park baseball seating capacity 8,000 (expandable).
     Possible rivals  Memphis, Nshville, New Orleans, OKC, Round Rock-Austin...

One level below the MLS:

Soccer - North American Soccer League Venue:  Drillers stadium seating capacity 11,500 (expandable).
     Possible rivals  Minnesota, New York, OKC,  San Antonio...

You have the venues and facilities available to move Tulsa back to AAA in hockey & baseball.  A return to the new NASL in soccer.

A Tulsa soccer expansion franchise in the NASL could easily average 10,000-plus.

We're waiting for the Olympics to be solidified. Then we'll steal the OKC Thunder, so to speak.

NASL Board of Governors Unanimously Approves Expansion To Jacksonville And Oklahoma City
Posted on Thu, Jul 25, 2013
http://www.nasl.com/index.php?id=3&newsid=5055


(http://rowdiessoccer.com/images/ezthumb.php?src=http://nasl.ezitsolutions.com/news_images/1374786771_a.jpg&w=650)

1981 NASL -- Tulsa Roughnecks vs Jacksonville Tea Men
***Evidently in 1981, someone either bought a giant eraser or a few cans of green spray paint to get rid of the football lines at Skelly***  ;D
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFGKETFrxQc[/youtube]

A couple of OKC posters who created screen names only a few days ago on a soccer site seem convinced something is brewing for an NASL team in Tulsa and it is Brad Lund's group assisting the bid.
One went as far as to predict we'll be reading about this in the Tulsa World in the next couple of weeks...

Brad Lund knows that an Tulsa-Oklahoma City rivarly is long overdue and soccer will be the new catalyst to get the two cities back on the
rivarly launching pad.

Good Luck in T-town!

This is true.  I don't know the details but I know for a fact these discussions are taking place.

And the pi$$ing match between Funk Jr. and Lund continues...

Funk Lays Out Vision For Oklahoma City
Aiming for new franchise to hit ground running in 2014
USL PRO Feature
Friday, August 16, 2013
http://uslpro.uslsoccer.com/home/747764.html

Funk Jr.,/Sr. have not been successful with the Barons' AHL hockey team.  They are not as familiar with the Oklahoma City market; that's where Lund has the edge.  Granted though it is going to take time to develop some new rivalries with Texas (Cedar Park-Austin) & San Antonio and the likes. Thanks to the season-ticket base of the Thunder (10,000/OKC; 2,800/Tulsa;500/Lawton); they will probably continue on their string which will exceed 110 consecutive selllouts.  Partial season tickets (20-game packages) is what's leftover over for the Thunder.   Funks, if they knew sports marketing--could capitalize on the opportunities.

The big decision with the Barons is deciding not the play in the Chesapeake Energy Arena.  They chose the Cox Convention Center Arena which seats 13,909; they would be economically more viable playing in the crosstown 9,750-seat State Fair Arena with the crowds they are currently drawing.  Why(?), the arena has been upgraded and there is plenty of open space free paved parking without the congestion downtown when they are playing on a night in which the Thunder are in town.  Many fans do not like going to the Cox Arena and paying the same for parking as the Thunder fans--and the nights the Thunder are in town, it's a nightmare trying to find a place in downtown OKC to park.

NASL soccer will become the new kid on the block; Taft Stadium will open after 2014 with renovations which will see a reduction in capacity from 15,000 (no back seats) to 7,500 seats.  Lund, believe me will take full advantage of marketing soccer in OKC.  He will be targeting the city's 110,000 hispanics in 50% of his advertising blitz.  

2017 MAPS IV  will have some kind of stadium referendum on the ballot.  More than likely it will be in the neighborhood of 20,000-25,000-seats costing around $125 million and it will be the city's vision to meet MLS standards should they decide to pursue MLS soccer.

Funk, took over the Redhawks AAA PCL baseball team when he had the opportunity to spend $10 million bringing MLS to OKC.   The Funks were not successful marketing AAA baseball and eventually sold the team.  Now, they want to test the waters in soccer with plans to eventually step up the ladder from USL-Pro to MLS.  They currently have plans to build their own stadium witn an initial capacity of 7,000 with designs to expand to 20,000.  The Lund (Sold-Out-Strategies) group has plans to do the same; an initial stadium seating 9,000-14,000 with expansion plans to hit the 20,000-plus range.  The race is on here in Oklahoma City. Funk's group will be given a head start (2014); whereas, Lund and SOS will begin NASL operations in 2015.

History of what the Funks have done here with AAA baseball and AAA hockey does not look good for OKC in those sports.  You question whether it will materialize with USL-Pro soccer in 2014.  Who nows, maybe, just maybe the Funks may be learning from past experiences in operating baseball and hockey.  They could make a complete turnabout.

It's going to be interesting seeing what occurs in 2014/15.

Tulsa has the edge with the more established soccer faithfuls from the late 70s-80s of Roughnecks and the NPSL Athletics current base; the fact that there isn't an NBA team to consume the sports dollars available.  Tulsa has close to $40MM available.  T-town would have no trouble supporting NASL or MLS.  There is some behind-the-scenes push to quickly get Tulsa into the NASL.  The NASL is trying to penetrate all of the markets which they think the MLS would not pursue. Tulsa nor OKC is currently on the NASL immediate radar.  One of these cities could easily become competitive for future MLS expansion.   The old Drillers stadium could easily be used for NASL and eventually expanded to 20,000-plus once the city officials see the demand for soccer will be more than they can handle.     The sports dollars are there for any league to explore.  Changes are really good for the NASL which could lead to MLS.  NHL hockey would be wise to get into the Tulsa market where there would be a regional draw which would include Oklahoma City and Wichita.  The proximity of Tulsa would prove to be more successful for the NBA to be in Tulsa than Oklahoma City.  That's where the NHL could become more of a regional draw (OKC-Wichita-Arkansas).  Tulsa would also attract fans from Arkansas as well (Little Rock is 230-miles from Tulsa).

It is going to be interesting to see the direction professional sports take in Oklahoma.  Tulsa has seen what a penny sales-tax can do to revitalize the city (eg., BOK Center, ONEOK Park); should the city continue the momentum as Oklahoma City has done it won't be long before you see the Green Country develop into a sports oasis.

Laramie- you post too much crap.  7% of the total thunder attendance comes from the Tulsa area.  In case you can't do the math that is 18,200 x .07 = 1274.  Stop posting false misleading statistics.  Is it any wonder the Thunder have been hosting a pre season game in Whichita since their inception as well.  The conclusion is just as much support has come from Whichita

I have been a season ticket holder since 2008 and my rep says the support from Tulsa has been minimal. 

See the reference from the t-world.  There is a reason aaa hockey and baseball are in okc.  The same reason aaa soccer will be there soon.

BOK Center sellout shows Tulsa fans are buying in to the Thunder
By BILL HAISTEN World Sports Writer on Oct 18, 2012, at 2:07 AM  Updated on 10/18/12 at 5:16 AM



 
OKC's Kevin Durant defends Memphis' Rudy Gay (right) during the last NBA preseason game at the BOK Center on Oct. 12, 2010. CORY YOUNG / Tulsa World file

Having been declared a sold-out event, Friday's Oklahoma City Thunder preseason game is expected to attract the largest crowd in the four-year history of the BOK Center.

For the Thunder game, the BOK Center's seating capacity is 18,233. The largest crowd for a BOK Center event was 17,931 for a February 2010 concert by George Strait.

"Thunder tickets are no longer available. They're gone," said Jeff Nickler, the BOK Center's assistant general manager. "It should be electric. It's a great event."

"It will definitely be the most-attended event in the history of the BOK Center," Nickler added. "That's a given."

Said Brian Byrnes, a Thunder senior vice president: "I knew we were tracking in the direction (of a sellout), but we're very pleased. We're humbled by the response of the fans in the Tulsa area. ... We put the tickets on sale in May - during the playoffs - and the tickets were 75 percent sold in June."

The defending NBA Western Conference champion Thunder faces the Phoenix Suns at 7 p.m. Friday.

For the fourth time since relocating from Seattle to Oklahoma City, the Thunder will play a preseason game at the BOK Center. Previous attendance totals were 9,549 in 2008, 10,427 in 2009 and 11,297 in 2010. Because of the NBA labor dispute that delayed the start of the 2011-12 season until late December, there was no preseason game in Tulsa last year.

"We obviously knew that the game would sell better this year because of the Thunder's success, but we had no idea that it would sell out," Nickler said. "The majority of the (tickets) were sold out within days of going on sale.

"Obviously, the Tulsa community is buying into the Thunder. They really are a statewide team now."

On Thursday, the Thunder conducts its annual Blue-White intrasquad scrimmage at the SpiritBank Event Center, located at 105th and Memorial in Bixby. The scrimmage begins at 6 p.m.

"We take it serious," Thunder coach Scott Brooks said. "We have the fans involved, ball boys involved, everybody involved. We want to have a great time, but we take it serious."

Players like NBA Sixth Man of the Year James Harden (groin injury), Thabo Sefolosha (thigh injury) and Kendrick Perkins (sore wrist) may not play in the Thursday scrimmage or the Friday game, but All-Stars Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook are expected to play in both events.

"There won't be just an all-star game with a bunch of alley-oops and no defenders," Brooks said of the Blue-White exercise. "We have a mini-practice before the doors open with a group of (Tulsa-area high school) players watching. We'll usually play about two or three quarters (during the Blue-White scrimmage)."

The Thunder's previous Blue-White scrimmages were played in Oklahoma City suburbs Bethany, Yukon and Midwest City. The OKC organization's decision to bring the Blue-White event to the Tulsa area was based in part to the Green Country response to the Thunder's surge through the Western Conference playoffs and into the NBA Finals.

During the NBA playoffs, Tulsa-area ratings of Thunder telecasts and merchandise sales soared to unprecedented levels. At one point during Game 4 of the Thunder-Miami Heat NBA Finals, the telecast was watched in 190,270 Tulsa-area households.

For any given game on the Thunder schedule, Byrnes says, about 7 percent of the 18,203 fans in attendance have made the drive from the Tulsa area. The Thunder database indicates that 13 percent of all single-game tickets are purchased by Tulsa-area residents.

The Thunder owns the Tulsa 66ers NBA Development League team, which in 2012-13 will play home games at the SpiritBank Event Center.

For two reasons, Byrnes said, Thunder officials felt compelled to bring the Blue-White scrimmage to Bixby.

"First, it was the fact that the 66ers moved to Bixby (from the downtown Convention Center). It gave us an opportunity to reinvent the 66er identity and the 66er brand," Byrnes said. "Also, we saw how Tulsa really got behind the Thunder during the playoff run. Television ratings spiked. Merchandise spiked. Ticket numbers spiked. The appetite was really significant.

"We thought this was a perfect opportunity to take the (Blue-White scrimmage) to Bixby - to help drive 66er awareness and reward Tulsa for being so involved and so passionate in supporting the Thunder."

When the organization moved from Seattle to Oklahoma City in 2008, what did Thunder officials expect from the Tulsa area in regard to television ratings, merchandising and ticket sales?

"It's way beyond our expectation after four years," Byrnes said. "(In 2010), our preseason game in Tulsa was very well attended but not sold out. To see that Friday's event will be sold out - and that most of those tickets were sold months ago - is a real testament to how quickly the Tulsa community really embraced the Thunder.

"We're not that far removed from a little bit of a cultural divide between the two cities. The 'Oklahoma City' on the front of the jersey was a bit of a deterrent, but I think we're beyond that. I think the Thunder, with the way the team has performed and how our brand has evolved - I think people appreciate and respect that this is a team for the entire state. Tulsa is a very important part of our business."

Tulsa could certainly support a 2nd NBA team in the state of Oklahoma.  The numbers are there and the BOK arena is much more equipped to handle the NBA or NHL than the shell structure we originally put up as a temporary home for the New Orleans-Oklahoma City Hornets.   The MAPS for Hoops' sales tax extension provided an additional $100 million to bring the current Chesapeake Energy Arena up to NBA standards.  It also built the team a practice facility which costs an additional $15 million.

Tulsa has all the demographics necessary to take the next step into the Big Leauges; be it the NBA, NHL or MLS?

I have always felt that Tulsa would be the first Oklahoma community to enter the big leagues; if OKC can experience successs in the NBA, Tulsa in my opinion would be just as viable.

Okay... I personally believe Tulsa is too small a metro area to ever be able to successfully support an NBA or NHL team on a long term basis... but soccer is different here... we're a unique soccer market.

But first, before we go much further, you need to learn how to spell "Wichita"... people from that city might think that you know little to nothing about them if you misspell it like that... and Wichita has a much more distinguished soccer history (albeit indoors) than OKC has ever had...


Typical OKC-centric pablum from your "rep."
Downtown Tulsa bars were filled with Thunder fans during the last two playoff runs... you might want to give former Tulsa Mayor Kathy Taylor a little "thank you."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3361374  


Triple-A hockey hasn't exactly been a rousing success under Funk Jr in OKC, now, has it?
Triple-A baseball makes more sense to me, since OKC has always had approximately 20% more population than Tulsa, but that may also be in jeopardy these days... Tulsa's double-A club is pretty stable but I guess that will happen when you get a new stadium built for you...

However, the ONLY REASON why OKC will get "aaa soccer" over Tulsa is because a multi-millionaire from Edmond and a multi-millionaire's son from OKC decided to take the plunge... strangely enough, both leagues (USLPro and NASL) can lay claim to "aaa soccer" for different reasons... the NASL team will play at a high school football stadium with a WPA facade... while the USLPro team slated to start in the spring of 2014 doesn't yet have a place to play...

This summer, the OKC club that played at my alma mater drew around 1,200 fans per game... the Tulsa club that played at the old ballpark at 15th & Yale this year in a similar league drew 3,066 fans per game.
Of course, the dipwads from your side of the turnpike who think they're OKC's version of "The Onion" insisted our NPSL team would never be successful... yet curiously those same douchebags never saw fit to criticize Brad Lund's new OKC-based soccer team (Oklahoma City FC) in their little social blog...  
http://www.thelostogle.com/2013/04/09/tulsa-is-getting-a-new-sports-franchise-at-least-until-it-fails/

Ten years ago the two cities held MLS exhibition games one week apart... Edmond's drew 9,300 while Tulsa's drew over 14,000 and signed up 3,500 for season tickets...

Oh, and then there's this......

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/08/18/nbc-telecast-of-swansea-city-manchester-united-posts-highest-overnight-rating-in-u-s-history-for-premier-league-opener/198140/

(https://sphotos-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/546906_10151707138920819_979648259_n.jpg)

I agree with you Rufnex that Tulsa is a unique soccer market.   If I am correct, SLC it is currently the smallest market in the MLS.

On paper, it looks as though Tulsa is too small to support NHL or NBA in the long term.  Success will be determined by how well a franchise can utitlize the tools to market its product in any city.  Salt Lake City is one of those unique markets.  They have franchises in the NBA and MLS; yet, its slightly smaller than OKC and slightly larger than Tulsa.

Tulsa is currently (2010) about the size of Salt Lake City when the New Orleans Jazz relocated there in 79-80.

1980 Population of Salt Lake City:  910,000

http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/The-West/Salt-Lake-City-Population-Profile.html

2010 Population of Tulsa:  937,000

http://www.tulsalibrary.org/faq/population

2012 Metropolitan Population estimates by U.S. cities:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

Some posters underestimate the strength of the Tulsa market.  The key as in any city will be determined by the product being placed on the field, court or ice. Oklahoma City went through this when NBA basketball first did its trail run.  Tulsa has Wichita & Oklahoma City within driving distance.  The triangular driving distances among Oklahoma City, Tulsa & Wichita areas about the same.

BALL CONTROL
Two soccer team operators battle for the honor of being OKC’s favorite football club.
Murray Evans September 4th, 2013

http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-19148-ball-control.html

http://www.okcnasl2015.com/

***always nice to see somebody likes my idea(s)... except they're gonna play on the other side of the turnpike***

I am not saying Tulsa doesn't have the demographics to make a team work.   Also, there is a huge difference between people watching the game from Tulsa vs. buying tickets and showing up in OKC.   I am happy Tulsa has jumped on the band wagon but let's not get carried away. 

The fact of the matter is Tulsa is a fickle crowd for sports.  Look at the examples.  The NCAA b-ball game attendance has been average at best.   Compare it to okc in the early 90's and it is a joke.  OKC sold out every game in the early 90's through the mid 2000's.  The whole community got behind it.  Same with the Women's Softball College World Series, big 8 and early big 12 baseball championships.  Last years Thunder pre season attendance was a joke and don't get me started on every game since 2008.  The Conference USA tournament is a joke.   The only event that has performed exceptionally well is the PGA and LPGA events.

Why hasn't the NCAA scheduled to come back?   

I bet you OKC has a new soccer stadium within 5 years and AAA level soccer as well.  MLS within 10 years...

All apologies to Wichita but there is absolutely a reason they get a pre season game as well.  It makes perfect sense to build a brand in each market.   However,  83-85% of the total gate comes from the OKC metro area.  It just drives me crazy when people on here take credit for there success.  Especially since the majority on here proclaimed they would fail.  They only jumped on board after we made the finals.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRyoqwpDyMM[/youtube]

Meanwhile, in San Antonio...
Owner says Scorpions to turn six-figure profit
By Dan McCarney : October 23, 2013 : Updated: October 23, 2013 6:19pm
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/scorpions/article/Owner-says-Scorpions-to-turn-six-figure-profit-4920784.php

And in this corner, Bob Funk Jr announces...

http://www.mlssoccer.com/sideline/news/article/2013/11/14/meet-oklahoma-city-energy-fc-okcs-brand-new-usl-pro-franchise-sideline
(http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/league/files/imagecache/620x350/image_nodes/2013/11/OKC%20Energy%20FC.png)


http://kfor.com/2013/11/14/major-league-soccer-coming-to-oklahoma-city-in-spring-2014/

Liking the logo, sweet!!!!

What I find even cooler is the usage of the State Motto ("Labor Omnia Vincit" - or "Labor conquers all things").

Sporting Kansas City mulling options for new USL PRO affiliation
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/11/21/sporting-kansas-city-mulling-options-new-usl-pro-affiliation

While affiliating with an MLS club might be prudent, being owned by an MLS club is a resignation to never being more than a farm team.

I long for a higher level of soccer here but everything that happens in this realm, besides what the Athletics have done so far, feels like a tighter turn in a spiraling out of control situation that will ultimately set us all back.

If I could steer this ship, you'd see more of this (particularly 50+1):
http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/5673975/success-germany-bundesliga
(I proudly admit BL envy.)

Hopefully, the NASL has learned from its previous flash; there seems to be a more direct and selective approach to build the league with a foundation of cities capable of sustaining the league. 

Based on Tulsa's affiliation with the league, you would have thought that the NASL would have first offered an expansion franchise to Tulsa rather than Jacksonville and Oklahoma City.

Tulsa will eventually become a member of the NASL again.

These media numbers  (1.9 second to D.C.) suggest that the market is there and probably stronger now than ever before.  Tulsa is truly as diverse as any city in North America.  The Athletics are a good early indicator that if the support is there for an NPSL level franchise that a return to the NASL should generate even more excitement and rekindle the old guard support who were avid Roughneck followers.

I agree, MLS (as well as the more recent NASL) for some time has too heavily focused its efforts trying to tap markets based on size rather than looking more closely inside markets.  This has left me to wonder whether pro soccer after 45 years in the U.S. could be further along than where it is now.

Good observation Rookie Okie:

Could the NASL be next step for Tulsa?

"A lot of smart people think there’s a Major League Soccer team in Tulsa’s future..."--http://www.okmag.com/September-2013/The-Roughneck-Effect/ (http://www.okmag.com/September-2013/The-Roughneck-Effect/)

The MLS could have gone into markets like Rochester & Tulsa where there are well established soccer fan bases with very little competition among the Fab Four Sports (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL) and capitalized on those markets.  The MLS appears to be cherry-picking among the largest metropolitan areas.

Tulsa would be a great location for an MLS franchise because there is a high interest in soccer on the international level as well as little competition among major professional sports.  The current closes MLS franchise to Tulsa is located in Kansas City.  The closes Fab Four franchise is 100 miles southwest on the Turner Turnpike.  The travel areas of most MLS cities encompasses less than a 50-mile radius.

MLS is currently considering markets like Atlanta (09), Austin (35), Miami (08), Minneapolis-St. Paul (16), Orlando (26), San Antonio (27), and St. Louis (19) which are among the top 35 metropolitan areas in the country.  These cities would make for some interesting rivals and well as key TV Markets in the United States.

Tulsa ranks (59 TV households and 55 MSA) among the top 60:  television markets and metropolitan areas in the country.

Here is a link to Nielsen's local television market estimates as of January 1, 2013 and used throughout the 2012-2013 television season.

http://www.tvb.org/media/file/TVB_Market_Profiles_Nielsen_Household_DMA_Ranks2.pdf (http://www.tvb.org/media/file/TVB_Market_Profiles_Nielsen_Household_DMA_Ranks2.pdf)

Top 381 Metropolitan Areas (MSA's) in the United States:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas) 

 

If I'm not mistaken, MLS has already failed in Miami and Tampa.  Yet Miami is at or near the top of the current list expansion cities.  Guess the league would like to take another shot at attracting what should be a large soccer enthused Latino/ Hispanic fan base in South Fla.

The Florida metros and Atlanta do not support professional sports teams well unless those teams are super successful.  Typically, expansion teams out of the gate are not usually among the most competitive in any sport.  So it will be interesting to see how these markets support the MLS as it is inevitable that they will soon have teams.

The soccer split in Tulsa could be fatal to whatever slim chances it has to land an MLS team.  It will require a major undertaking (with every ounce of state, regional, and local support available and then some) to make a serious play for a franchise.  One would be hard pressed to envision pulling this together with the two opposing local factions, along with any OKC attempts to move up beyond the NASL.  Just thinking of how powerful a coalition they'd form if the local groups could join forces.

MSL  added its first two expansion teams in 1998—the Miami Fusion and the Chicago Fire, with the Chicago Fire winning its first title in 1998 to interrupt D.C. United's dominance of the championship.   Seems as though the two Florida franchises (Miami Fusion & Tampa Bay Mutiny) folded after 2000-01.  The Fusion played in Fort Lauderdale, FL where the old NASL Strikers use to play in Lockhart Stadium

Yes, Rookie Okie, you are correct; there was an expansion team added to Miami (Fusion) in 1998.  Why the MLS wants to return to a previously failed market is unbeknown to me?   Surprisingly, the Chicago Fire, an expansion team won the league championship during its expansion year.  Lockhart Stadium was expanded to 20,000 while the Fusion played there.

I believe that a soccer specific stadium would increase Tulsa's potential for gaining entry into the MLS;  U.S. Rufnex would be a good source  who might have insight about any behind the scenes efforts to attract an MLS expansion or relocation franchise to Tulsa.  If my research is correct, Tulsa Vision2025 penny sales tax should expire around 2016 (Started in 2003; 13-year collection); that would be the time to extend the tax and fund more projects, such as a soccer specific stadium. Looks as tough Tulsa will have an opportunity to get on the MLS radar if a stadium could be financed through existing means (2016 extension of Vision 2025).   Proponents here in OKC will probably put some type of stadium on a MAPS IV initiative when the MAPS III sales taxes are collected and set to expire in 2017.  OKC has continued to invest in itself since the original MAPS tax was passed in 1993. 

Miami is probably reaching the point of being oversaturated with major professional sports franchises. There is a huge potential in Miami for MLS if the right ownership is in place--especially a one with deep pockets. 

I believe that Salt Lake City is the smallest market in the MLS with an estimated 1.2 million; SLC currently has a well established NBA franchise within its marketing area.  Tulsa is right at 1 million without an NBA.  Salt Lake City's MLS team is averaging around 19,200 in a  20,213-seat Rio Tinto Stadium in suburban Sandy, Utah.  The NBA Jazz currently averages 17,800 in a 19,911-seat facility.

MLS Attendance:  http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/10/31/5047982/mls-attendance-2013-report (http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/10/31/5047982/mls-attendance-2013-report)
NBA Attendance:  http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance (http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance) 


Tulsa would be a great addition to the MLS geography because of its equal distance between current MLS franchises in Frisco, Texas  and Kansas City, Kansas.

Oklahoma is not currently on the MLS' radar; if Oklahoma is selected as a part of MLS expansion going into 2020 it will have to have a soccer specific stadium with a minimum of 18,000-seats. 

Tulsa definitely has the history of a proven soccer base that exceeds MLS minimum stadium seating requirements.  "The Roughnecks' home games consistently drew better-than-league-average attendance, with the annual record occurring during the 1980 season when the team averaged 19,787."--Wikipedia.   Without major professional sports within a 50-mile radius.  MLS would have a market all to itself.


How Far Is It? Distance calculator link: http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist (http://www.indo.com/cgi-bin/dist)

According to the releases I read, Oklahoma City is building a soccer specific stadium that will be expandable to MLS requirements.  Once that happens, they will be on the MLS radar instead of us.  They will surely jump ahead of us...again...if we don't commit to a soccer specific stadium also.  Lots or room downtown.  I don't care who it is.  Just make it happen.

As much as I would love to see an MLS franchise in Oklahoma (OKC or Tulsa); Tulsa would be better suited for long-term success and viability. 

1.  In Tulsa an MLS franchise wouldn't be competing for available major professional sports' dollars.
2.  Good marketing could draw some soccer fanatics from Wichita & Oklahoma City.
3.  Tulsa has in its history a solid soccer fan base in the area.
4.  There are deep pockets in Tulsa (ownership) which could be sold on an MLS franchise in Tulsa.

I predict that an MLS franchise will be in Oklahoma by 2020.


There are some ownership groups in OKC both the NASL & USL-Pro who have stated interests in building a soccer specific stadium with initial plans from 7,000-14,000 seats.  I have a friend who works on the collection data planning for future project with the City of OKC and there is talk of some kind of stadium being built for the city's future (nothing concrete).

USL-Pro Prodigal LLC soccer specific stadium:  http://newsok.com/prodigal-adg-to-build-soccer-stadium-in-oklahoma-city/article/3862781 (http://newsok.com/prodigal-adg-to-build-soccer-stadium-in-oklahoma-city/article/3862781)

NASL McLaughlin & SOS soccer specific stadium:  ]http://eastwordnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=178&ArticleID=4071] (http://eastwordnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=178&ArticleID=4071)

Not only is there a battle in OKC over soccer market; (USL-Pro begin 2014; NASL 2015) there is now a stadium race.

Who knows?  The way the Funks (Prodigal LLC) have been courting Tulsa lately; they could very well be looking at a back up plan and eventually build a stadium in Tulsa instead of OKC.

Both groups in OKC have stated that the stadiums they are planning to build will be expandable to 18,000-seats which is the minimum requirements for MLS.

I have to call BS on this. 14 of the 19 MLS teams are in cities where they compete with at least one other stick and ball sport.

Chicago, DC United, Houston, Portland, Dallas, Los Angeles, Seattle, Philadelphia, San Jose, Kansas City, Toronto, New England, Colorado, and Vancouver.

And the all seem to be doing well.

Typical OKC backhanded compliment.

Dback, given the smaller size of metro Tulsa compared to the cities cited above, the point is that it would be more difficult to support an MLS team if there was any other pro sport here competing for the sports dollar.  Although those cities have at least one or more other pro sport, they are all at least 2X (and some many times over) the size of the metro pop. of Tulsa.  Perhpas a better example of the point I believe that you were trying to make is to look at smaller market Salt Lake City (between OKC and Tulsa metros in size) with successful MLS and NBA teams (at least in terms of fan base and support).

Point being that wheels are already in motion there for a soccer specific stadium.  Not a peep here.  Once ground starts moving in OKC, the MLS is pretty much a lock to be in OKC if this state is in their purview.  As usual, Tulsa is behind the ball and I'm more and more convinced that we will be losing out to OKC once again in the sports department.  

Rookie Okie, there are several people that post here that use several of those cities to draw comparisons to Tulsa for population, COL, earnings, transportation, pay scales, and what those cities have that Tulsa should have. My main point was the line of crap that MLS would succeed in Tulsa because there is no competition from other pro teams, where as, in Laramie's eyes, "they would have a tough time competing against the Thunder" insinuation.

As far as the Thunder's insinuation; sports dollars available in OKC are already committed with a well established NBA team.  

Salt Lake City which is more aligned with Tulsa & OKC demographic wise has taken to soccer in suburban Sandy, Utah.  It may or may not have a direct result on the NBA Jazz's drop in attendance; however, there are just so many dollars available in selected communities.

We have no idea as to how the new USL-Pro soccer and NASL teams scheduled to come to OKC in 2014 and 2015 respectively will perform.  OKC has limited soccer history; their efforts will be strictly from a marketing blitz.

My post was to look at this from a practical and financial standpoint.  This link which U.S. Rufnex cited in an earlier post does have merit:

http://wagesofwins.com/2011/10/31/could-your-city-give-a-sports-team-a-good-home/ (http://wagesofwins.com/2011/10/31/could-your-city-give-a-sports-team-a-good-home/)

While it is useful to estimate how much a money the market has and not something you want to get too far ahead of, discretionary income of Tulsa and OKC are both good nationally. It also can be misleading as no one in Tulsa is moping about not being able to spend the money they set aside for pro sports this month and had to put it in savings for when a major league team is acquired, people generally spend the money they have either way, in fact until the recent economic downturn a decent percentage of people were spending money they didn't have freely. It now would just be going to other forms like live concerts, retail purchases, dining, travel, etc; these may be things people would not want to give up either. Plus only a small percentage of people in a city are buying the tickets, so it is possible that the ticket bases would not have a lot of overlap.

PS: The Jazz are not a great example, since as is common, attendance dropped as on court performance dropped.

Good point Snowman, Jazz attendance is slightly down this season due to court performance.  They still are in the top half of the league in attendance, and are typically well up in the top 10.  As I thought further after using them as a 2 sport small market success, it really occurred to me that there isn't much overlap between the MLS and NBA seasons.  Thus, the competition for pro sports dollar in SLC isn't as direct in this case as say baseball vs. soccer or hockey vs. basketball would generate.

Having lived in Phoenix for 13 years, yes there are people that are fans of, use discretionary funds for, MLB, NHL, NBA and NFL. There are the core fans of each of those sports, then you have the casual fans, the crossover fans that support the home teams, and then you have the "Bandwagon" fans. So the inference that MLS would do well in Tulsa because there is no competition is a false analogy. There are MLS teams in cities where there other major sports teams and they do well. There are soccer fans in Tulsa, and they will support a semi pro, or pro, team.

To say that in OKC, the discretionary dollars for pro sports are committed to the Thunder is just an arrogant statement that you have the pro team, and anything else won't survive. Look at the population of Minneapolis/St. Paul. Each city is smaller than Tulsa, and yes the combined is larger than Tulsa's MSA, similar to the combined Tulsa/OKC MSA, and they can support MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL.

By the way, I keep forgetting that OU has some of the highest paid athletes in college football.

If Tulsa had built BOk before Katrina, I truly believe that the shoe would be on the other foot.

via Twitter:   IMSoccer News ‏@IMSoccerNews 8 Jan
Unconfirmed, but hearing from source that new NASL team in OKC will not be starting in 2015 as previously announced.

There are all kinds of rumors out there about the Oklahoma City NASL, USL-Pro & NPSL teams?  Haven't heard anything official yet; hopefully, something official will be released soon.

DB, the NBA probably would not go into a market of less than 1 million even if a Taj Mahal type facility was available, so it would have been highly unlikely that the shoe would have been on the other foot.  At the time, OKC was considered a risky proposition for the temporary relo of the Hornets for a number of reasons.  If they'd passed on OKC, they probably would have opted to set up in KC or maybe even Birmingham.  Louisville would have probably been the top choice had there been an NBA level arena in the city at that time.

I think you are being too optimistic. The reason the Thunder are in OKC is more because eight OKC businessmen wanted to get a teams there, had the money to do so and had been working to to that end for a few years; not that the NBA thought it was something that needed to happen. At least some members of that group had been taking minority positions in other teams at least a few years be before Katrina and networking (the league is pretty much a good old boys network with more diversity), which probably is part of why the Hornets played there in the first place, it also is also why several of the Thunder's core group were up and comers from San Antonio's management team.

While they probably had hopes of just keeping the Hornets (now Pelicans), they knew the writing was on the wall with that option after the first year was up, so before the second year the Hornets were playing there they bought the Sonics. The league was already fed up with not being able to get any arena deals (by which I mean hundreds of millions in subsidies) made over the prior ten years their, the team was losing tens of millions every year. So the option for relocation was go where the owners wanted it, that had a good showing during for a temporary team and passed subsidies to finish the build out to NBA standards or keep a team in a situation that is going to be losing money for the foreseeable future. The main things standing in the way to move was the team was a clause they had to show an attempt to get a new stadium deal with the city/state over a one year period and there was a three year lease (they were eventually able to get out of after just one year).

It was a costly buyout for the Supersonic owners:

"Bennett announced that the settlement calls for a payment of $45 million immediately, and would include another $30 million paid to Seattle in 2013 if the state legislature in Washington authorizes at least $75 million in public funding to renovate KeyArena by the end of 2009 and Seattle doesn't obtain an NBA franchise of its own within the next five years."

When 2010 and 2013 ended; it sealed the deal and the owners didn't have to pay that additional $30 million; it closed the chapter on the City of Seattle vs. the NBA Supersonics debacle.

Link:  http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3471503 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3471503)

I'm just glad that we have the NBA in Oklahoma.  Now we need the MLS here and Tulsa does have the history and the income available to support an MLS franchise or an NHL franchise.    The BOK Center could easily be retrofitted to get it NHL or NBA ready.  Who's to say that a second NBA team in Oklahoma (Tulsa) is far-fetched?

Imagine a Tulsa vs. OKC rivalry in the NBA along with NBA franchises in Oklahoma's proximity--Texas (Dallas, Houston, San Antonio), one in Colorado (Denver) and one in Tennessee (Memphis) on the Arkansas-Tennessee border.  St. Louis and Kansas City would be marginal for the NBA at this point since they are overextended major sports markets.

At Number 5, 7;  Kansas City and St. Louis are among the top ten overextended sports markets.

Link:  http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/on-numbers/scott-thomas/2011/08/denver-is-most-overextended-market.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/on-numbers/scott-thomas/2011/08/denver-is-most-overextended-market.html)

These studies are for feasibility purposes and not something carved in stone.  They look at the financial availability of a sports market and if it has the resources available to handle major professional sports--there are no guarantees.

It's good to dream big and aim high.   

Oklahoma is fortunate to have one NBA team.  Yes, thanks to the ownership group and the other factors that worked out in their favor at that time (demonstrated success with the Hornets, the untenable situation in Seattle, and Louisville being in the radar cross-hair without an NBA type arena ready until 2010).  The league won't allow 2 teams within an approximate 100 mile radius with just over 2 million inhabitants between them for support.  The best thing that could have happened for the entire state was for the Thunder to play a few regular season home games in Tulsa to make it truly a regional experience.  But we know that was/ is not going to happen.

NHL - not a chance.  Tulsa is just not a hockey city as evidenced by crowds of only 4,000+ in the BOK for the CHL (not even AHL level product).

Tulsa's only realistic opportunity for a major league sports team would be in landing an MLS franchise. 

I don't know how much stock I can put into the listing of overextended markets.  It relies too heavily on income and not enough on other important factors such as fan passion which may lead some people to spend more of their discretionary income on sports than on other pursuits.  Some high profile cities not on the list such as Atlanta, L.A., and Miami are not really great sports towns.  While their residents may have sufficient income to support teams in all of the major leagues, they don't necessarily spend it attending sporting events, particularly when their teams are not of championship caliber.   Boston, Philly, Chicago, and yes St. Louis (which is on the list) on the other hand are great sports towns.  Buffalo which has been economically woeful and hemorrhaging population since the 1960's strongly supports it's 2 pro teams.  So much so that fans probably sacrifice too much for tickets at the expense of some other necessities.

The list identifies Denver as the No. 1 such market, citing more income is needed to support its 5 professional teams.  The reality is that Denver's support for all of its teams is consistently strong and solid.  This perhaps indicates that Denver residents may choose to drop a greater portion of their entertainment dollar on sports than let's say the theatre, philharmonic, or other forms of entertainment.

Not to drop a fly in the ointment here, but Tulsa would do better in higher level hockey than you might think.  Much hockey history in this city (more history than soccer).  Back when the Oilers had decent management and good teams, you couldn't buy a walkup ticket on game night.  Crappy ownership and management in the late 90s mired the team in mediocrity and fans left in droves.

Many die-hard hockey fans live in this city.

And fact of the matter is that AHL teams don't do much better attendance-wise than CHL teams do.  Tulsa's 4728 average attendance through this weekend (which is second in the CHL) would be about middle of the road for the AHL.  Hell, OKC's average attendance for Baron games is 3280 so far this season.

Do I think the NHL could work in Tulsa?  Maybe in 5 years.  It would be better to get an AHL team though and better owners.  Remember, hockey doesn't have the structured farm system that baseball has.

I'm not trying to knock soccer here.  I went to many Roughneck games back in the day.  I'm just saying Tulsa has an almost 90 year long history with hockey.

Move up to the AHL and re-establish whatever Tulsa - OKC hockey rivalry previously existed.  The better drawing AHL teams consistently pull in 8K - 12K, so who knows it's possible that the upper half of the BOK could get some needed use. 

Reunite Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Wichita & Tulsa (all once played together in the CHL) along with Texas (Cedar Park-Austin) and  Houston and you would have enough teams for one division in the American Hokey League.  All of these cities were once in the original CHL or its rebirth in the 90s.

You have newer arenas for ice hockey in Cedar Park-Austin (6,700), Houston (17,800), Oklahoma City (18,036), San Antonio (16,000), Wichita (13,450) and Tulsa (17,096).  If the AHL can adjust with its movement into Iowa, Oklahoma and Texas and bring back Omaha, NE & Wichita, KS you will have a more viable and economically feasible area of the league which should benefit travel.

The so-called dilemma you have in OKC is suppose to be scheduling.  A move back to the Chesapeake Energy Arena shouldn't be a scheduling nightmare.  The Thunder seldom use Saturday dates.   The Thunder have been enjoying 2.5 years of consecutive sellouts (18,203).  If Los Angeles Staples Center can schedule three basketball teams (NBA Lakers & Clippers), WNBA Sparks and the NHL (Kings)  in one building then why can't OKC figure a matrix scheduling to include ice hockey?  The Barons are playing in the Cox Convention Center (Old Myriad, 1972) 13,846 ice hockey capacity--across from the Peake.

I do agree with Hoss.  

Hockey has been a fixture in Tulsa.  The Icers, Ice Oilers were established well before the OKC Blazers came on the scene.  Oklahoma had one of the most fierce rivalries in minor league hockey.  Let's not underestimate Tulsa's potential for becoming an NHL city.   You would have instant rivals with Dallas, Chicago, Colorado, Minnesota and St. Louis.  Tulsa has a diverse fan base which could draw from neighboring Oklahoma City, Wichita & Fort Smith.

NASL will enter the Oklahoma City market in 2016; they will play at 6,500-seat Millers' Stadium  (Yukon High School).  Oklahoma City will have two franchises (USL & NASL) in a market of 1.4 million.



NASL to officially announce Oklahoma City franchise | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/nasl-to-officially-announce-oklahoma-city-franchise/article/5459327)

Millers High School Stadium       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkzDaPjfAkY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkzDaPjfAkY)

What On Earth Is The NASL Doing?
Nov 13 2015 07:00 AM | Alex Schieferdecker in Articles
Divining the intentions of the NASL has always been more of an art than a science, but even seasoned NASL watchers were baffled by this week's announcement of new expansion club Rayo OKC.
http://northernpitch.com/_/minnesota-soccer-news/what-on-earth-is-the-nasl-doing-r607

***Ironic old NASL Tulsa Roughnecks highlights twenty seconds into the video***
http://www.rayookc.com/images/RayoElevationnomusic.mp4

Well, that escalated quickly... favorite quote about the situation in Rayo Oklahoma City (Yukon HS)...

"#RayoOKC lasted 268 days. Kim Kardashian was legally married to Kris Humphries for 653. #NASL"  ;D

Rayo OKC blowout of defending champs highlights big night in OKC soccer scene
By Chris Brannick Staff Writer cbrannick@oklahoman.com Published: July 17, 2016[/b]
http://newsok.com/rayo-okc-blowout-of-defending-champs-highlights-big-night-in-okc-soccer-scene-energy-continue-run-of-form/article/5509952

Report: NASL's Rayo OKC loses coach, and more
by Mike Woitalla, August 5th, 2016
http://www.socceramerica.com/article/69849/nasl-rayo-okc-loses-coach-and-more.html

MORE DETAIL FROM TWITTER....

    Scissortail Podcast @ScissortailPod

    1) Presa demanded that the team bus to every away match to save $. Good luck bussing to @PRFootballClub. Indy is closest at ~12 hrs away.
    6:13 AM - 5 Aug 2016

        2) B/c they no longer have anyone to install/remove the nexxfield, they want to play on the football field underneath that is too narrow.

              3) Did we mention they forced out the FO and head coach of a team in 3rd place on the table? They will try to operate with 2 coaches only.
                6:15 AM - 5 Aug 2016

Soccer bubble is bursting.

Turf war?

Soccer: Rayo OKC playing surface removed by minority owner
by James Poling Published: August 30, 2016
http://newsok.com/soccer-rayo-okc-playing-surface-removed-by-minority-owner/article/5516004

Desolation Row. A final post on the off-field drama at Rayo OKC
by Alan Chapman - September 27, 2016
http://midfieldpress.com/2016/09/27/desolation-row-a-final-post-on-the-off-field-drama-at-rayo-okc/

So yeah, the organization in Spain claim they were misled.... by a member of the Lund family.
Anyone surprised?

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/soccer/audio/16061869/

Nope.