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Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 02, 2006, 11:15:33 am http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061002/ap_on_go_co/congressman_e_mails_76
Why was he not arrested and led away in handcuffs? Next thing will be for Foley to enroll in Jesus Camp.... Shame on all republicans for protecting this creep knowing of his shenanigans. Typical.Where is your outrage? I guess Bill Clinton was worse? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: sgrizzle on October 02, 2006, 11:31:26 am At least Foley didn't finish his term.
I think this is just a rich and famous thing. SeverityOfCrime = (TypeOfCrime x Number Committed) - (Net Worth x Celebrity Status) Apply the same to Paris Hilton. Not ye tried for her DUI arrest but soon she'll probably be the spokesperson for MADD. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 02, 2006, 11:45:35 am It's gonna get worse.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/emails_show_fol.html The feds have direct evidence of Foley trying to rendezvous with a minor. That's a felony. I have a strong hunch that even more unsavory details are going to emerge in the coming days. And that some folks in the GOP leadership knew of the problem but didn't do anything. So much for the "family values" gang. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 02, 2006, 11:53:29 am quote: The crimes don't compare. Shame on you. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: sgrizzle on October 02, 2006, 11:59:34 am quote: Rather I plug in OJ? Ted Kennedy? Anyone know if Foley is Catholic? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Breadburner on October 02, 2006, 12:08:17 pm quote: You popped the top on the cookie jar with that one..... Very Top-Shelf..... Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on October 02, 2006, 12:13:50 pm quote: He is Catholic. In his defense the guy in question was 16. If that is the age of consent in either DC or FL depending on the law has he done anything wrong? Legally speaking, of course. Pretty sick all the same though. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: sgrizzle on October 02, 2006, 12:19:57 pm Sick either way.
Maybe it's just that if you're famous, saying you're drunk is a "get out of jail free card." Gibson Hilton Foley? For non-famous people, being drunk while committing a crime usually means you get punished WORSE. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 02, 2006, 12:25:09 pm Sixteen is the age of consent in many states. However, you can't solicit sex from a minor (under 18) on the Internet.
Obviously, it's a contradiction. But it's hardly the first in the lawbooks. You can't have sex until you're 16 (or 14 in some states), can't vote until you're 18, can't drink until you're 21. Ironically, the soliciting-on-the-Internet law was championed by Foley while he was in office. I guess he wanted to protect minors from people like himself. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: alanoftulsa on October 02, 2006, 12:29:59 pm It floats. The way our body is built, we'd be surprised if it didn't. The sheet of flat steel that goes underneath every Volkswagen keeps out water, as well as dirt and salt and other nasty things that can eat away at the underside of a car. So it's watertight at the bottom. And everybody knows it's easier to shut the door on a Volkswagen after you've rolled down the window a little. That proves it's practically airtight on top. If it was a boat, we could call it the Water Bug. But it's not a boat, it's a car. And, like Mary Jo Kopechne, it's only 99 and 44/100 percent pure. So it won't stay afloat forever. Just long enough. Poor Teddy. If he'd been smart enough to buy a Volkswagen, he never would have gotten into hot water. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 02, 2006, 01:05:42 pm Now THAT'S funny!![:D][}:)][:D][8D]
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 02, 2006, 01:07:18 pm quote: Foley's a drunken pervert. It's an individual, not party issue. Where is your proof that the GOP covered this up? Where were you to lampoon William Jefferson? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: TulsaFan-inTexas on October 02, 2006, 01:17:24 pm quote: He needs to go down, and not on in the manner that he would like. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 02, 2006, 01:44:49 pm Conan wrote:
Foley's a drunken pervert. It's an individual, not party issue. Where is your proof that the GOP covered this up? <end clip> We have the Democratic member of the Page Board, who knew nothing about the Foley e-mails or potential troubles until the story broke last week. Don't you think a member of the Page Board deserves to know this stuff? We also have some pages were were told about problems with Foley, but it appears they didn't tell Democratic pages. A lot of selective dissemination of information. http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/gop_staff_warne.html So the GOP leadership obviously knew there was *some* sort of problem, and elected not to tell anyone on the other side of the aisle or really do much of anything in general. Hastert's current dodging of questions raises red flags. I know of him from way back in my native Illinois; he's good at that sort of thing. Put it this way, Conan: If it were a Democratic congressman who was ensnared and there were allegations of the Democratic leadership covering it up, would you be so quick to say: "Where's the proof of the cover-up?" I'm an independent voter: I demand accountability of *all* my lawmakers, not just certain ones. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 02, 2006, 01:46:47 pm quote: No question that Denny and co. knew about Foley's follies a year ago. "In a statement, House Speaker Dennis Hastert said his staff was told about the e-mail exchange last fall but was assured that the messages were "overfriendly" rather than of a sexual nature. Mr. Foley was called to a meeting and was told to halt any further communication with the young man. Mr. Hastert originally said that he had learned of the matter only last week." http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20061002.CONGRESS02/TPStory/TPInternational/America/ I'd believe the major players in the GOP in DC are covering up other similar heinous activities. What ever happend to Jeff Gannon? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: sgrizzle on October 02, 2006, 02:04:49 pm It sounds like all of the CYA was done well. Everyone who got an email either failed to report it, or failed to fully disclose the contents. That absolves all the higher levels.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/02/foley.timeline/ Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 02, 2006, 02:08:44 pm quote: [}:)] Hee hee...I needed a good laugh today! Thanks rwarn. I'll believe that the day I see you deride a Democrat for ANYTHING. He was just following in the steps of former Democrats... Gerry Eastman Studds - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1973 to 1997. The first openly gay member of Congress. Censured by the House of Representatives for having sexual relations with a teenage House page Foley...alternatives next time: 1. Drive the page off of a bridge drunk into a body of water and kill him. 2. Assault the Capital security when asked about the incident and call them racists. 3. Keep your love notes to the page wrapped up in the freezer and scream 4th amendment violation when the cops look for them. 4. Join the KKK like Senator Byrd, unlike child solicitation, no one will care. 5. Stuff any incriminating evidence into your socks before leaving for the day. 6. Admitt to having the affair with the page, put him in control of the department of homeland security for your state, write a book, go on Oprah. 7. Have a relationship with the page, make the page dissapear...act like you never knew the page until someone finds the remains in the woods. 8. Become the mayor of your city and smoke crack cocaine. Many more ideas where these came from... BTW, TradeSports is still calling GOP wins in both the House and Senate... One last note: BETWEEN JOHN KARR AND FOLEY AND GOD KNOWS WHO ELSE...CAN WE LEAVE THE KIDS ALONE FOR A LITTLE WHILE...I KNOW IT'S A LOT TO ASK, BUT CAN WE PLEASE GO BACK TO ENJOYING PROSTITUTES AND LEGAL AGE INTERNS WHO LIKE CIGARS? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Cubs on October 02, 2006, 02:23:49 pm quote: quote: Well aren't you all quick to point fingers! I think what you all are doing is a common term the democrats love- you are "politicizing" the story. All I am saying is give it a few days before you make these harsh accusations against the entire party. If some did know, I'm sure it was only a few. And yes --- the republicans are still the party of family values --- the democrats are much worse than the republicans on family value issues. Of course we are going to have a few crazies, but the party still stands for family values. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 02, 2006, 02:30:57 pm <Cubs wrote:
Well aren't you all quick to point fingers! I think what you all are doing is a common term the democrats love- you are "politicizing" the story. <end clip> You shouldn't throw stones in glass houses, Mr. Worst Team in the National League. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 02, 2006, 02:33:09 pm Both parties contain their share of SCUMBAGS. Neither has a monopoly on that.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: sgrizzle on October 02, 2006, 02:33:19 pm I love partisan generalizations. My aunt is a staunch democrat who says that her party does not support gay marriage or abortion rights.
Everyone has a different view. Either way, the page who originally reported it reported it to the corrent offices, not based on their political party. Looks like the low level people didn't have all the information, much less the higher levels needed for any kind of real coverup. Everyone knows it's all run by the Queen, the Rothchilds, the Gettys, the Vatican, and Colonel Sanders (before he died) anyway. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 02, 2006, 02:34:14 pm Before he went Teets up?
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 02, 2006, 02:35:58 pm iplaw wrote:
Hee hee...I needed a good laugh today! Thanks rwarn. I'll believe that the day I see you deride a Democrat for ANYTHING. <end clip Hell, I'd be glad to be the first to throw Mr. Jefferson under the bus, throw what's left of him in jail and throw away the key. (A lot of throwing in there ... hope I don't tear a rotator cuff.) It p*ssed me off that Hastert, of all people, tried to keep the DOJ from executing a search warrant on Jefferson's office. Why do these damned congressmen think they're above the law? I find it especially rankling for Jefferson to be taking bribes at a time when his home state is so improverished because of Hurricane Katrina. Do remember, iplaw, that I *am* registered as an independent. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 02, 2006, 02:40:36 pm quote: Because they write them so as to not violate them. They write in their own loopholes most of the time...convenient huh... quote: Register schmedgister...I could register as an independent too. Too bad labels don't tell you what's in the bottle sometimes.[;)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on October 02, 2006, 02:43:30 pm quote: Edison Misla Aldarondo, Republican legislator, was sentenced to 13 years in prison for molestation of his daughter and her friend for eight-year period starting when they were 9. Full Article Randal David Ankeney, Republican activist, arrested on suspicion of sexual assault on a child with force. He faces 6 charges related to getting a 13-year-old girl stoned on pot and then having sex with her. Source Also accused of sexually assaulting another girl. Denver ABC Article Dick Armey (R-Texas), former professor, has been accused by The Dallas Observer of sexually harassing female students. Jim Bakker, televangelist with Pat Robertson at Robertson's Christian Broadcasting network. Committed adultery with Jessica Hahn [1] and then used charitable donations to pay her hush money[2]. Fellow televangelists say he's gay. [3][4]Indicted on 23 federal charges of fraud, tax evasion, and racketeering [5]. Bob Barr, Republican Congressman from Georgia. Sponsored the anti-gay Defense of Marriage Act, saying "The flames of hedonism, the flames of narcissism, the flames of self-centered morality are licking at the very foundation of our society, the family unit." Was married three times. Paid for his second wife's abortion (she also suspected he was cheating on her). Failed to pay child support to the children of his first two wives and while married to his third and present wife was photographed licking whipped cream off of strippers at his inaugural party. Merrill Robert Barter, Republican County Commissioner, pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy. Booth Bay Register Article Robert Bauman, Republican congressman and anti-gay activist, was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar. Source: Washington Blade Parker J. Bena, Republican activist and Bush Elector, pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography (including children as young as 3 years old) on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000. Source Louis Beres, chairman of the Christian Coalition of Oregon. 3 of his family members accuse him of molesting them when they were pre-teens. Editor and Publisher article. In August 06, Beres confessed. The Portland Mercury Howard L. Brooks, Republican legislative aide and advisor to a California assemblyman, was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography. Sacramento Bee article John Bolton Bush's appointee ambassador to United Nations, corroborated allegations that Mr. Bolton’s first wife, Christina Bolton, was forced to engage in group sex have not been refuted by the State Department. Raw Story Article Mike Bowers Former State Attorney General, prosecuted the famous Bowers vs. Hardwick case, based on Georgia anti-sodomy laws. Admitted to a 10-year adulterous affair Slate article Pat Buchanan predidential candidate, media talking-head. His campaign refused to confirm or deny whether Pat has had chlamydia or any other venereal diseases. Andrew Buhr, Republican politician, former committeeman for Hadley Township Missouri, was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy. Source Ted Bundy campaigned for the Republican Party. Infamous serial rapist who murdered 16 women. Source: BBC Jim Bunn Congressman of Oregon: With his success due in great part to support from the Christian Coalition, Bunn won his congressional seat, then immediately ditched his wife (and mother of his five children), married a staffer, and put his new wife on the state payroll for the unheard-of salary of $97,500. Conservative Babylon John Allen Burt, Republican anti-abortion activist, convicted of sexually molesting a 15 year old girl at the home for troubled girls that he ran. Source: Pensacola News Journal Dan Burton, Republican Congressman who, while married, fathered a child by another woman. Salon.com Article George W. Bush, Republican president, accused in a criminal complaint and lawsuit of raping Margie Schoedinger, who was later suicided. Accused by Tammy Phillips, a former stripper quoted in the National Enquirer in 2000 saying she had an affair with Bush that had ended in 1999. Neil Bush, brother or G. W. Bush, in a March 2003 divorce deposition, admitted repeatedly having sex with strange women who just showed up at his room while on an Asian business trip. (Overshadowing the sex scandal; the business scandal--see link.) Washington Post article. John Butler, Republican activist, was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl. Ken Calvert, Congressman (R-Ca), champion of the Christian Coalition and its "family values." Sued as an alimony deadbeat by his ex-wife. Said "We can't forgive what occurred between the President and Lewinsky." In 1993 he was caught by police receiving oral sex from a prostitute and attempted to flee the scene. Charles Canady, Congressman (R-Florida), Judiciary Committee member. Lied to his constituents about his adulterous affair with Sharon Becker, which caused her divorce. Helen Chenoweth, Congresswoman (R-Id.). In 1995, Chenoweth had denied having an affair when asked about it by The Spokane Spokesman-Review. In 1998 she called (in a campaign ad) for Bill Clintons resignation saying "I beleive that personal conduct and integrity do matter". Days laters she admitted to a six-year adulterous affair with a married associate. but now she claims a pardon from a higher authority: "I've asked for God's forgiveness, and I've received it," she revealed. Keola Childs, Republican County Councilman, pleaded guilty to sexual assault in the first degree for molesting a male child.Honolulu Star-Bulletin Article Kevin Coan, Republican St. Louis Election Board official, arrested and charged with trying to buy sex from a 14-year-old girl whom he met on the Internet. Source: Newmax Roy Cohn, continually condemned gays and gay rights. Was a closet gay who died of AIDS. Wikipedia Article Carey Lee Cramer Political consultant and anti-Kerry ad producer, tried for molesting two young girls, one of whom lived with him, and was 8 yrs old; the other starred in an anti-Kerry commercial. Diary Diary. The Monitor. Dan Crane, Republican Congressman, married, father of six. Received a 100% "Morality Rating" from Christian Voice. Had sex with a minor working as a congressional page. Salon.com article On July 20, the House voted for censure Crane, the first time that censure had been imposed for sexual misconduct.[6] Paul Crouch Televangelist, Former President of Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN). Paid $425,000 in hush money in an attempt to cover up a gay affair. Christianity Today article Richard A. Dasen Sr., Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, convicted of sexual abuse of children, promotion of prostitution and several counts of solicitation, enough to add up to a sentence of 126 years in prison. Investigators estimated that he spent up to $5,000,000 on prostitutes. Missoulian Article on the trial | Missoulian Article on his conviction Richard A. Delgaudio, Republican fundraiser and Bush pioneer, was found guilty of child porn charges. WBAL Channel article Peter Dibble, Republican legislator pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl. News Channel 8 Article Nicholas Elizondo, Director of the Young Republican Federation molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison. Halfway down this Bakersfield Californian article Thomas B. Evans, Jr. -R Congressman from Delaware may have had an afair with Paula Parkinson (see his article for more info). Larry Dale Floyd, Republican Constable in Denton County, Texas Precinct Two. Arrested for allegedly crossing state lines to have sex with an 8-year old child and was charged with 7 related offenses. Age 62 at time of arrest. Dallas News Article | Atrios Article John Fund, of the Wall Street Journal, a prominent anti-abortion columnist and GOP fund raiser. He lost his position after it was revealed that he impregnated the daughter of an old girlfriend and then encouraged her to abort his child. American Politics Journal Article Jeff Gannon Partisan blogger with no journalism credentials and a fake name who got invited to Bush's Press conferences. Is also a pimp and a gay prostitute. Truthout Article. See also dKospedia's page on Jeff Gannon. Jack W. Gardner, Republican Councilman, had been convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl. when the Republican Party, knowing of these crimes, put him on the ballot. Article with documents Richard Gardner, a Nevada State Representative (R), admitted to molesting his two daughters. Review Journal Article Newt Gingrich, married three times. Gingrich campaign worker Anne Manning admitted that she gave Newt oral sex while he was still married to his first wife. Informed one wife he was filing for divorce while she was in the hospital recovering from cancer treatments. Salon article Philip Giordano, Republican mayor sentenced to 37 years for forcing two 8 and 10 year old girls to perform oral sex on him in his City Hall office. NBC Article | Newsday Article Rudy Giuliani, had an adulterous affair. Pocketed $80,000 for speaking at a charity benefit for tsunami aid which raised only $60,000 for the victims themselves (Feb 2005). Matthew Glavin, president and CEO of the Southeastern Legal Foundation, big player in the Clinton Impeachment, and many anti-gay jihads, has been arrested multiple times for public indeceny, one time fondling the crotch of the officer who was arresting him. Full Article Marty Glickman, Republican activist, was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with a juvenile and one count of delivering the drug LSD. Mark A. Grethen, Republican activist, convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children. Orlando Weekly article Jon Grunseth, Republican businessman and candidate for Minnesota governor, withdrew his candidacy after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter, and tried to grope one. "I've made some mistakes" he said. USA Today article Dr. W. David Hager Bush appointee, member of Focus on the Family's Physician Resource Council, player in movement to ban the morning-after-pill. Had an adulterous affair, before divorcing his wife he sexually abused her, including sodomizing her in her sleep. Article Mark Harris, Republican city councilman who is described as a "church goer," was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison. John Hathaway, Republican Senate candidate, was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media. Source: Casco Bay weekly Howard Scott Heldreth, anti-abortion activist who gained fame during the Shiavo media-circus, was convicted of two charges of raping a child in 2002. page at Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Sexual Offender/Predator Unit Mike Hintz, a First Assembly of God youth pastor, introduced by Bush on the campaign trail, and promoted his policies. Says he supports Bush's values. Two months later, this married father of four turned himself into police, charged with the sexual exploitation of a child. ArticleCommentary Also signed an ad (that called for criminally prosecuting business that sell porn), along with another pastor who was repeatedly busted for public masturbation. Neal Horsley has called for the arrest of all homosexuals. Admitted on the Fox News Radio's The Alan Colmes Show, that he's had sex with mules. Put photographs on his Web site of naked men engaging in homosexual acts and a nude woman engaging in bestiality amid shots of grotesquely maimed fetuses. Drug dealer convicted of possession of hashish with intent to sell. He calls for "the establishment of a new government, one that can obey God's plan for government." Tim Hutchinson, divorced his wife of 29 years to marry a congressional aide he was having an affair with. Henry Hyde, Judge who oversaw Clinton's impeachment proceedings, prominent opponent of reproductive rights, who had an extramarital affair with a woman who was married and had three children, during the course of which she and her husband were divorced. Salon.com article Don Haidl, Assistant Sheriff of Orange Country, in violation of California's rape shield law, led a smear campaign against the child his son poisoned and then violently gang-raped on videotape, adding up to 24 felony counts. He said that his son "acted accordingly" because the child was a "slut". The full gruesome story, with many newspaper articles. Paul Ingram, Republican Party leader of Thurston County, Washington, pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison. Source: The Olympian Bernard Kerik, had two simultaneous adulterous affairs. Earl Kimmerling, sentenced to 40 years in prison after he confessed to molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her. Source I. Lewis Libby, former Assistant to the President and Chief of Staff to Vice President Dick Cheney. In 1996 published a novel containing bizaree sexual content, including beastiality and pedophillia. Full Details Rush Limbaugh, triple-divorcee[7], 30-pill a day drug addict. Goodies from The Smoking Gun.com Bob Livingston, former Congressman (R-La.) resigned from the House in the wake of revelations about his past adultery. Donald Lukens, Republican Congressman, was found guilty of having sex with a minor - a girl he was accused of sleeping with since she was 13. Time Article Pat McPherson, Douglas County Election Commissioner. Arrested for fondling a 17-year-old girl. Article Jon Matthews, Republican talk show host in Houston, was indicted for indecency with a child, including exposing his genitals to a girl under the age of 17. Source: ABC News Jeff Miller, (R-Cleveland), Senate Republican Caucus Chairman in Tennessee and the sponsor of Tennessee’s Marriage Protection act, getting divorced (as of April 2005) because of an affair he was having with an office aid. Miller described the Tennessee Marriage Protection Act as a means of preserving the sanctity of marriage. He opposed an amendment, however, which stated that “Adultery is deemed to be a threat to the institution of marriage and contrary to public policy in Tennessee.” [8] [9] Nicholas Morency, Republican anti-abortion activist, pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor The Dallas Morning News article. Sue Myrick, Congresswoman (R-NC), describes herself as a "devout Christian." Committed adultery with a married man. Bill O'Reilly Right-wing conservative talk show host on Fox News, sued for sexual harrassment by his producer. Bob Packwood, Senator (R-Ore.), resigned in 1995 under a threat of public senate hearings related to 10 female ex-staffers accusing him of sexual harassment. Jeffrey Patti, Republican Committee Chairman, was arrested for distributing what experts call "some of the most offensive material in the child pornography world" - a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped. Daily Record News Article John Paulk, lied about prowling for gay sex while running a fundamentalist group to cure gays. Brent Parker Utah State Representetive. Arrested for soliciting sex from an undercover officer posing as a male prostitute. KSL News Article |Deseret News Article John Peterson, Congressman (R-Pa), accused of sexual harassment and creation of a hostile work environment by six women. Peterson has refused to admit a crime, saying only "I may have been an excessive hugger." Harvey Pitt, SEC Chief under George W. Bush until he was forced to resign in 2002. Worked for New Frontier Media, a firm which distributed teen sex videos. Mark Pazuhanich, Republican judge, pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation. Pocono Record article George Roche III, carried on a 19 year affair with his son's wife, while serving as president of Hillsdale College, which "emphasizes the importance of the common moral truths that bind all Americans, while recognizing the importance of religion for the maintenance of a free society." Beverly Russell, County Chairman of the Christian Coalition, sexually molested his step-daughter, Susan Smith, who later drowned her two children. Herald-Journal Article |Commentary on Newsweek Article Jack Ryan, 2004 Republican nominee for US Senate from Illinois, pressured his wive, actress Jeri Ryan, to have sex with other men. Tricked her into visiting sex clubs, where he asked her to have sex with him while others watched.[10] Joe Scarborough, former Republican Congressman, currently a conservative talk show host. Resigned his congressional seat abruptly to spend more time with his family, amidst allegations of an affair. His intern, Lori Klausutis, was soon after found dead in his office. The medical examiner, who had his license revoked in Missouri for falsifying information in an autopsy report, and suspended in florida for six years, ruled the case an accident, after giving conflicting information about her injuries. He said he lied about them because "The last thing we wanted was 40 questions about a head injury." Ed Schrock, two-term republican congressman, with a 92% approval rating from the Christian Coalition. Cosponsor of the Federal Marriage Amendment, consistently opposed gay rights. Married, with wife and kids. Withdrew his candidacy for a third term after tapes of him soliciting for gay sex were circulated. Dr. Laura Schlessinger, right wing conservative radio host. Promotes family values, estranged from her mother, opposes birth control, has had her tubes tied, espouses saving oneself for marriage, admits to having had sex before she was married, opposes adultery, has committed adultery while she was married, and has slept with a married man, opposes divorce, is divorced and remarried, has posed for nude photos which are available online. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Republican governor, had sex with a 16 year old when he was 28. Jean Schmidt, OH-2, though not herself implicated, employed a campaign manager (Joe Braun) in her 2005 election who once wrote an article condemning gay men for running sex ad profiles, and who was then accused of running his own sex profile on Collarme, an S&M sex site. The profile called for "submissives" to wear only a collar and handcuffs and to have hot wax dripped on them. DKOS Diary John Scmitz, right-wing republican congressman, who had had his committee chairship taken away from him in the California State Senate after issuing a press release attacking Jews, feminists and gays. Forced out of office in 1982 for having an adulterous affair and fathering two children out of wedlock with one of his students. He was caught because his baby was admitted to hospital for having hair tied so tightly around his penis that it was almost severed. His daughter, Mary Kay LeTourneau, was convicted of having an adulterous affair with one of her students, and giving birth to two of his children. Wikipedia article Larry Jack Schwarz, Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, fired after child pornography was found in his possession. Rocky Mountain News article With his political career over, he went to work in the hard-core pornography industry for Platinum X Pictures, owned by his daughter, porn starlet Jewel De'Nyle (Stephany Schwarz). Wikipedia article Jim Stelling, Seminole County Republican Party chairman who believes in "family values", as he told a judge. Filed a defamation lawsuit againt Nancy Goettman, a former county GOP executive committee member, for falsely claiming he had been married six times. Stelling has been married 5 times. Article Don Sherwood, Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives. Eventually admitted to an affar with a woman 30 years younger than him, after she accused him of physical abuse and attempting to choke her. Post-Gazette article Tom Shortridge. Republican campaign consultant, was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl. LA Times article Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr., Republican City Councilman, pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison. Sex Offender Registry page | Article Craig J. Spence, Republican lobbyist, organized orgies with child prostitutes in the White House during the 1980s. Full page including Washington Times article Discovery Channel documentary Jimmy Swaggart, televangelist, said during a sermon "I'm trying to find the correct name for it … this utter absolute, asinine, idiotic stupidity of men marrying men. … I've never seen a man in my life I wanted to marry. And I'm gonna be blunt and plain; if one ever looks at me like that, I'm gonna kill him and tell God he died." Had an affair with a prostitute. David Swartz, Republican County Commissioner, pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison. Rocky Mountain News Article Randall Terry, Right to Life activist, founder of Operation Rescue, involved in the Terri Schiavo protests. Once imprisoned for sending former President Bill Clinton an aborted fetus. His son Jamiel is gay; his daughter Tila had sex outside of marriage, became pregnant, had a miscarriage - she is no longer welcome in his home; his daughter Ebony had 2 children outside of wedlock and became Muslim. He has campaigned against infidelity and birth control, gays and unwed mothers. Terry himself was censured by his church after committing adultery. Bill Thomas Republican congressman, had an affair with Deborah Steelman, a health care lobbyist who steered huge campaign gifts to Thomas' war chest. Strom Thurmond, republican senator and racist, raped and impregnanted a 15-year old African American maid. (BBC Article) Robin Vanderwall, Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate, director of Faith & Family Alliance, (a Christian Coalition spin off), former student of Pat Robertson's Regent Universtity, member of Ralph Reed's inner circle who funneled money to from lobbiest Jack Abromoff to Reed [11], convicted in Virginia for soliticing sex from a 13-year-old-boy[12] and on four other counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet. Virginian-Pilot Article J.C. Watts, Representative (R-Oklahoma), loud champion of "moral values." Has out-of-wedlock children. Jim Wesr, Spokane Mayor. Supported a bill, which failed, would have barred gays and lesbians from working in schools, day-care centers and some state agencies. Voted to bar the state from distributing pamphlets telling people how to protect themselves from AIDS. Proposed that “any touching of the sexual or other intimate parts of a person” among teens be criminalized. Had a sexual affair with an 18 year old boy.Source: Spokesman review Keith Westmoreland, a Tennessee state representative (R), was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to minors under 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children). Tennesean Article Stephen White, Republican preacher. Was arrested after allegedly offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him. Daily Pennsylvanian article | Daily yale News Article I never realised Roy Cohn was based on a real character until I looked at this list. You want lists? Let's see who can find a bigger one. I think its often the people who protest too much who are hiding something. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 02, 2006, 02:58:42 pm Okay Si Uk,
Nice cut and paste, either that or you have way too much time on your hands. Why don't you find and cut and paste a big list of all the perv's on the Democrat side now? I am sure there are just as many, or do you just care to be partisan? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 02, 2006, 03:03:36 pm I started this thread to point out that the alcohol made him do it and you posties have politicized the discussion.
Let's stay focused on today's news not the old stuff. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 02, 2006, 03:04:45 pm quote: Actually I would be quick to say "where's the proof" if it were the other way around. To me, it's electioneering to try and sway the mid-terms to make the perverse actions of one person sound like a GOP or Democrat conspiracy. I'm against petty electioneering, not Democrats. How is it that no one has said a word about how the "Democratic member of the Page Board" was sleeping on the job to not know of a complaint by a page? Isn't that who the pages report to? For an independent, I don't believe I've ever heard you come out against a Democrat nor for a Republican. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 02, 2006, 03:06:56 pm quote: Care to point out to me which part of your comments weren't "politicizing"? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 02, 2006, 03:07:01 pm quote:Foley is a pedophile; he was soliciting children. The Republican House leadership buried this information and did nothing to protect the pages. They tried to protect Foley, his seat, and the GOP, but they did not try to protect the children. Are you obligated to do the same, or can you simply admit that this behavior is unacceptable? Conan 71 said: quote:The three-member House Page Board has one Democrat on it, Dale Kildee. Kildee's statement today: quote: Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: NellieBly on October 02, 2006, 03:11:37 pm That's the point -- you and ippy do the same thing (cut and paste). Pervs don't care about who you vote for.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: sgrizzle on October 02, 2006, 03:12:06 pm Wasn't the house page leadership notified? sounds like an internal matter with the board as well.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 02, 2006, 03:13:07 pm quote: No one has any proof of a concerted coverup. Just stating it exists doesn't make it so. If there was, people will get smashed as they should. At this point it's just party political well-wishing. quote: Sure. As long as you are willing to do the same and lambast Gerry Studds (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Studds") the same as you do Foley. Or is it okay or excusable when a Dem does it? As if child sex crimes are somehow a political issue... Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 02, 2006, 03:13:13 pm quote: Kildee himself spoke up, "...I was outraged to learn that the House Republican leadership kept to itself the knowledge of Mr. Foley's despicable behavior toward the House Pages." Its called a coverup, Conan. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: MichaelC on October 02, 2006, 03:18:25 pm From MSNBC (http://"http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15103356/")
quote: On a side note, counter to the title of this topic, Foley isn't "absolved" of anything. If the evidence is good, he'll face charges. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 02, 2006, 03:21:42 pm I believe that MSNBC also ran several "news" stories confirming that Rove was the Plame leak. How about we let the justice department figure this one out? He will be subject to charges once he leaves "rehab."
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 02, 2006, 03:22:59 pm Since you guys seem to pull info out of questionable sources, here's one for you Dems:
http://members.aol.com/mpwright9/boren1.html http://members.aol.com/mpwright9/boren.html Comments? Questions? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 02, 2006, 03:23:37 pm Nothing new under the sun:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2509889 How do these people get elected... Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 02, 2006, 03:29:21 pm quote:H*ll no. It wasn't in '83 when a Dem or Republican Dan Crane (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Crane") were caught...still isn't today. No proof of a coverup? You are kidding, right? The Republican members of the Page Committee and the Republican House Leadership failed to tell the Democratic member of the Page committee, or anyone else, about this. Is this an oversight? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: MichaelC on October 02, 2006, 03:33:03 pm From Fox News (http://"http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,217025,00.html")
quote: Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on October 02, 2006, 03:59:14 pm quote: I'm not partisan, I was evening it up. Iplaw created a list of democrats who had misbehaved I merely did the same for republicans. I was showing how meaningless pulling stuff off line is, for one side there is always another side especially on the net. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 02, 2006, 03:59:45 pm Hey, ip, I can wait on an investigation, too. Meantime, Tradesports (http://"http://www.tradesports.com/aav2/trading/contractInfo.jsp?conDetailID=291849&z=1159826492118") has the GOP below 50%.[;)]
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 02, 2006, 10:59:37 pm quote: Yes, people are tired of evil do gooder hypocrites. Regime change is in order. Kissinger must go.....again. The rest the country knows what's going on. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 03, 2006, 07:50:33 am Consider the timing of this "outing". With just over four weeks before the mid-terms this suddenly broke.
Democrats on The Hill can say all they want there was a Republican cover-up and they knew nothing about this behavior, but I will remain suspect that this was known to both parties for some time, it finally became "convenient" to leak it to the media when ballots were already printed and Foley's name cannot be taken off. You can be assured that it wasn't a Republican operative that leaked this. If, during the investigation into this, it is found that any Democratic member of Congress knew about this for any length of time prior to the leak, then they are just as much a part of a cover-up. The U.S. House of Representatives and the Senate both have become "elitist" institutions. Just about any time other than election season, members protect each other and their personal behavior, regardless of party affiliation. It's the way things work in Washington. Our Congress is corrupt, for sale, and filled with people who are intoxicated with power, money, privilege, and all it implies. I also believe there was a certain "tit-for-tat". Last Friday, The American Spectator released John Murtha's Abscam tape in which he tells the FBI agents posing as Saudi businessmen that he might accept $50K down the road if they play ball with some businesses in his district first. http://youdontknowjack.org/abscam/ For the record, Murtha ostensibly did not break any laws during the probe since he wasn't charged, and did not accept a bribe. He wound up testifying against two other members of Congress. To me, this video is not a smoking gun, though there are people on the right who seem to think it is. Personally, I think it was a very weak cheap shot. No, I'm not comparing Murtha's actions to Foley's. What I'm pointing out is I believe there is shameful electioneering going on with both parties and we haven't heard the end of it. You can bet the Republicans will be working around the clock to "out" the behavior of Democrats in retribution. Foley's actions are reprehensible and disgusting. He's not just an insult to the Republican party, but to Congress. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 03, 2006, 09:33:10 am Lest I be accused of plagiarism for not posting a link again (lol). Here is the link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20061002/bs_ibd_ibd/2006102issues01 Scandal: Right after Mark Foley was revealed to have had inappropriate e-mail conversations with a 16-year-old page, he resigned and checked into rehab. Now, what did Democrats know, and when did they know it? Yes, you read that right: the Democrats. It's of course clear that Foley, a Republican representative from Florida, resigned for good cause. We don't defend him or his inexcusable behavior -- good riddance. But it didn't take long at all after Foley's resignation for the Democrats to call for an investigation of the entire Republican leadership in the House, charging that GOP stalwarts knew early on that Foley, as they like to say in the rehab business, had a "problem." Democrats have begun losing their once-significant lead in the polls, and a mere five weeks remain until the midterm elections. Is this scandal the Democrats' own "October Surprise," meant to throw the GOP into a tailspin shortly before the vote? Recent polls show Democrats aren't doing very well on several key issues. What better way than a good, old-fashioned sex scandal to get people's minds off such things as the importance of winning the war in Iraq, our ongoing vulnerability to terrorist attack and the necessity of keeping the Bush economic boom going? As it is, Republicans deny knowing about the explicit text messages that Foley sent to a 16-year-old congressional page back in 2003. In repudiating Foley, House Speaker Dennis Hastert called the messages "vile and repulsive." Despite this, the immediate take by Democrats and much of the mainstream media was that this was a classic example of Republican hypocrisy -- talking "morals" and "values" while all the time shielding a child predator. But it was nothing of the kind. If anything, the episode reveals the Democrats' hypocrisy about their own behavior. The fact that Foley resigned virtually within minutes of being told that ABC News had copies of his salacious e-mails and text messages indicates he at least felt shame for his actions. Can the same be said for Democrats? Sadly, it doesn't seem so. How else can you explain the following? In 1983, then-Democratic Rep. Gerry Studds of Massachusetts was caught in a similar situation. In his case, Studds had sex with a male teenage page -- something Foley hasn't been charged with. Did Studds express contrition? Resign? Quite the contrary. He rejected Congress' censure of him and continued to represent his district until his retirement in 1996. In 1989, Rep. Barney Frank (news, bio, voting record), also of Massachusetts, admitted he'd lived with Steve Gobie, a male prostitute who ran a gay sex-for-hire ring out of Frank's apartment. Frank, it was later discovered, used his position to fix 33 parking tickets for Gobie. What happened to Frank? The House voted 408-18 to reprimand him -- a slap on the wrist. Today he's an honored Democratic member of Congress, much in demand as a speaker and "conscience of the party." In 2001, President Clinton who had his own intern problem, commuted the prison sentence of Illinois Rep. Mel Reynolds, who had sex with a 16-year-old campaign volunteer and pressured her to lie about it. (Reynolds also was convicted of campaign spending violations.) You get the idea. Democrats not only seem OK with the kind of behavior for which Foley is charged, but also they protect and excuse it. Only when it's a Republican do they proclaim themselves shocked -- shocked! -- when it comes to light. We have a lot more questions about this whole affair. The timing of the revelations, as we noted, couldn't be more propitious for the Democrats. Turns out both the Democrats and several newspapers seem to have known about Foley's problem as far back as November, according to research by several enterprising blogs. Why didn't they come forward then? Who dredged up these e-mails -- and why did they hold them until now? This reeks of political trickery. We're glad Foley's gone. He betrayed Congress, his party and the trust of the 33 pages who serve in Congress, and their parents. He behaved immorally, and we won't be surprised at new revelations. That said, if this scandal is the Democrats' answer to their problems at the polls, it's pretty pathetic. It shows a base contempt for the voters. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 03, 2006, 10:34:29 am Of course, the ones who whine about a story's timing are the ones who are getting gored.
Nevermind the fact that Shimkus, Hastert, et al, saw an inkling of trouble 10 months ago -- well before an election cycle -- and didn't do anything about it. If I knew of a middle-aged colleage e-mailing a teen boy in an "over-friendly" manner, I'd confront him on it and sic a private eye on him. The potential of really bad stuff from a guy like that is too explosive to ignore. That's what the Republicans would call "pre-emptive" action. Whoops. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 03, 2006, 11:22:11 am quote: Foley is a sh__thead and needs to be dealt with, and severely. It just seems rather hypocritical for the Democrats to be throwing stones while they themselves live in a glass house. Did you even read the article I posted? Is that information false? If so, I'll gladly retract the article and cry uncle. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 03, 2006, 11:48:50 am It's accurate, but it's not relevant to NOW.
And it's a lousy defense to say "Well, the other side did it, too -- ummmm, YEARS ago." Let's face it -- the current GOP has a problem with corruption. Here's a current listing of lawmakers and those associated with them who are in legal trouble. (And Foley's not even on the list -- yet.) http://talkingpointsmemo.com/grandolddocket.php By my count, there are 27 people listed. Just one is a Democrat, and that's Jefferson (whose rap sheet *is* impressive). The others have strong GOP ties. The tired old "the other guys do it, too" doesn't wash when the current list is so lopsided. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 03, 2006, 12:03:50 pm quote: I'll agree with you rwarn that the current batch are full of it. I have my share of problems with those in power as well. I'll take a look at your link. Thanks Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 03, 2006, 12:04:32 pm quote: Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 03, 2006, 12:24:00 pm quote: Nice spin Rwarn, out of the people listed on that page, there are only three Republican lawmakers, and many of the people cited are associated with DeLay, Cunningham, and Abramoff- three or four scandals. You try to make it sound like the dealings of a few crooked congressmen have sent the entire party to "hell in a hand-basket". Since you dropped the Abramoff card, here you go: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158.html Fox guarding the henhouse? Whoops... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/13/AR2005121301582.html Here's more: http://www.uncorrelated.com/2006/01/abramoff_democrats.html Here's an un-biased article on what a skank-pit Washington is: http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52241 You need to realize the point of scandal-breaking in the first place. The details of Foley's follys are so salacious that it's instant front page news, the media picks up sound bites from Democrats saying they didn't know a thing and it must be a Republican cover-up. Even if it's proven there was no cover-up prior to the mid-term election, that news will be page 6 or deeper in the paper. Why? Because it's not sex and it doesn't sell. It would have played out the same way had this been a Democrat. It's not biased media so much as it is they know they can sell lots of papers and get lots of viewership when a congressman is caught in a quasi-sex scandal with a teenager. By the time the truth comes out, everyone has lost interest in the story and it's no longer sensational news. What the opposing party counts on is the sector of voters who will only remember the first sound bites and form an opinion on the spot, much like yourself. Instead sitting around pointing fingers at one party or the other being crooked or which has more peccadilloes than the other, don't you think it's time to realize that Washington is a very crooked place that sells your rights to the highest bidder? For being an independent thinker, you don't seem to be willing to dig into how crooked ALL of Congress has become. For a registered independent, you sure spend a lot of time throwing daggers at the Republican party, and I don't recall ever seeing a post from you that's been critical of Democrats. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 03, 2006, 12:39:43 pm quote: Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on October 03, 2006, 12:50:18 pm quote: Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 03, 2006, 12:55:40 pm I agree. It is hypocritical behavior Si. There's plenty to go around.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on October 03, 2006, 12:57:25 pm quote: But this guy wrote the law. He was chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children. How much more hypocritical can you get? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 03, 2006, 12:57:30 pm Ugh...nice ad-hoc argument si_uk_lon_ok. The context of using "hypocritical" in the discussion was the hypocrisy of a party pointing fingers when they themselves have committed the same offense sans the outrage when it happened with them, but I guess that's reasonable...
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on October 03, 2006, 01:01:01 pm quote: Was 1983 a cover up? I can chose to use hypocritical to describe his behaviour if it is an accurate description. Or is that not allowed? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 03, 2006, 01:06:47 pm quote: Hmmm...it created about 5 minutes of noise and the LEADERSHIP of the DEM party allowed him to COMPLETE HIS TERM IN OFFICE, now that's HYPOCRITICAL. Why did they not call for his IMMEDIATE removal? They chose to censure him instead... You chose to use the term "hypocritical" in direct relation to the aforementioned post. They are non-sequitors which you chose to combine. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 03, 2006, 01:06:59 pm quote: Not much. So that's what it has come to? Which party is THE MOST hypocritical? My point is that there is plenty of blame to go around and there has been for years. It seems that those in favor of the Democrats want to exploit the greed and hypocrisy of the Republicans. That's fine. But I would suggest anyone in a glass house not throw stones or you will get some medicine of your own thrown back at you. To point out that this guy is a bastard and deserves punishment is all well and good (I agree). To act like "your" party is any better is partisanship 101, plain and simple. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on October 03, 2006, 01:13:00 pm quote: It's not my party and I'm not partisan. Are we meant to shrug our shoulders and say the other party did the same back in 1983. 23 years ago? Are the two parties now so murky there is nothing between them? In this scandal there is plenty of blame to go around, but looking at the list of people who knew about this and didn't do what they should have done I'm mainly seeing Republicans. PS I've worked in a sunday school and know what the appropriate action is if something like this were to emerge. And it is not what happened in August 2005 when the emails got forwarded the first time nor the later dates when more people began to know about this behaviour. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 03, 2006, 01:15:28 pm Abramoff is a Republican scandal. This Republican's own it, and Foley, and torture, and trashing the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The rich keep getting richer and the rest of us are slipping. Its getting hotter, and nobody knows why (sheesh). And where's Osama? We don't know, but Frist (http://"http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2006/10/02/383378-frist-taliban-should-be-in-afghan-govt") is trying to get him an Afghani voter ID card. Most important, the only "course" there is to "stay" in Iraq leads to a civil war.
You guys can keep sipping your "Freedom-march" flavored Kool-Aid, but its pretty darn clear to me that the Republicans are morally bankrupt. They don't deserve to be in the driver's seat any longer. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 03, 2006, 01:16:15 pm quote: Sure it sounds to me like Foley's a hypocrite based on his legislative record. But so far as we know at this point, he's not had sexual physical contact with a teenager, nor has proof been presented that he collects or has otherwise viewed child pornography. I don't know what you'd call 1983, something worse than a cover-up. Studds (what a hillarious name for a homosexual) actually had sex with a teenage page. Where was the outrage then and why was he allowed to remain in Congress? The proliferation of the conservative right wing into the Republican party has certainly provided "hypocracy" fodder when it comes to moral and ethic issues. However, high moral and ethical standards should be expected of ALL leaders of our country. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: LilMikey on October 03, 2006, 01:19:15 pm Proof that Republicans don't use bookmarks. They just bend the page over! [}:)]
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 03, 2006, 01:19:22 pm I would like a respectable answer to my questions.
Why is there so much outrage from Democrats NOW when the Democrats chose to allow Studds to complete his term in office for the exact same crime? No Democrat ever called for his resignation and the leadership allowed him to stay. Can we say "selective" outrage... Could it have something to do with the fact that he has an (R) by his name? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on October 03, 2006, 01:23:26 pm quote: I couldn't honestly say, because I wasn't born then. My mother was heavily pregnant at the time during the hot summer of 1983. This is what is so silly about digging really old stuff up. Simple thing is who can say? Any old fogies remember what happened? Again does an (R) mean you'll defend someone even who is at best a dirty old man? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 03, 2006, 01:27:07 pm quote: Nice try. Not one person here on either side of the issue has proposed placating this situation or refrained from calling him disgusting. We question the selective outrage. quote: You've got to be kidding me. It's not like 1983 was somehow the dark ages where we didn't keep records of newsworthy items. You prefer not to answer the question because it places you in a logical trap you can't get out of and you can't admit this is nothing more than a case of "selective" outrage. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: si_uk_lon_ok on October 03, 2006, 01:29:55 pm quote: Maybe it had to due to the fact what happened with Studds was consensual? And he hadn't stood up quite so often to renounce somthing he was doing himself. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 03, 2006, 01:31:57 pm Do yourself a favor and read about it. He had sex with an underage page. It doesn't matter one way or the other whether the page was consenting or not, it's still highly illegal. BTW, there was a Republican who was involved as well.
Dems were in control of both houses of congress at the time and this scumbag was allowed to finish his term. Has the Dem stance on pedophilia changed since 1983? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 03, 2006, 01:38:15 pm quote: I'm pretty p_ssed off about much of what you point out as well CL. Although I am an Independent, I have voted Republican on several occasions and I find it nauseating what is going on. Spending? Out of control under the Bush Administration. Prosecution of the war? Abysmal! Securing our borders? Laughable! And many, many, more! However, I see nothing better on the Democrat side other than finger pointing. I truly wish that there was a Democrat leader stepping up to the plate to offer valid solutions. Up to now, all I've seen and heard is that "we" can do better, but I haven't seen or heard any solid dialogue other than the blame game. I believe both parties carry a blame for the direction this country has gone over the last several decades. The difference between you and I (imho) is that I will point out that those Republicans deserving are bums, but I have never, ever heard you, Si, or anyone who tends to lean to the left say anything bad about the Democrat party. Sure enough, the Republicans are in power and they have targets on their backs, so that's to be expected I guess. However, I've been around for awhile and I've seen the corruption on both sides. If I were keeping score, I'd say they're running neck and neck in the corruption game; something of which I, as an American am not proud. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 03, 2006, 01:42:24 pm quote: I've pointed this out on numerous occasions. I have never seen so many self-proclaimed "independents" who were blindly partisan for one side. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 03, 2006, 01:43:40 pm quote: Did you say that the Democrats were morally bankrupt when President Clinton was proven to have had an extra-marital affair in the oval office, then had his minions try to cover it up? Does that not fall into the realm of "moral bankruptcy"? No, Abramoff is not a Republican scandal. It is a Congressional scandal if you chose to read the Democrats cited in his contributions list. He tried to buy influence from ANY congressman who could help his lobbying efforts. As long as we allow our congressmen have PAC's and they allow money to influence their work, there are plenty more Abramoffs operating in D.C. The main reason Abramoff was brought down was professional jealousy: he was spreading more of his largesse toward Republicans which was a trend that began with the Republican take-over of the House. Republicans now have the majority in both houses, which means they have more of the key leadership roles. If the Dems had been in control of both houses, you can be assured that Abramoff would have been spreading more of his money on the other side of the aisle. Money gets the influence in Washington and has for a very long time. Which ever party controls the key influential posts will get most of the money thrown their way. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 03, 2006, 01:45:54 pm quote: Ditto. It makes me sick. I see the perversion, corruption, and lies on both sides and it is SICKENING. It just makes me sick that people will use almost anything to gain ground politically these days, and that's on BOTH sides for those of you thinking I'm only talking about the Democrats. I wish there was another party that was viable. It would need to be named the AMERICAN party. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 03, 2006, 01:54:02 pm quote: Well, I was alive in 1983, and an adult having sex with an underage boy or girl back then as now, was/is prosecuted as statutory rape- regardless of consent, in virtually every state and is good for 10 years to life, depending on the jurisdiction. I'm not outraged so much that it was a Democrat that did it, I'm outraged that people in Congress are not only deemed as being above the law, but allowed to continue to author our laws after they flaunt and break them. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 03, 2006, 02:09:27 pm quote: Great point. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 03, 2006, 02:23:40 pm Back on topic: More news about Foley, and it gets even sleazier:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/new_foley_insta.html Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 03, 2006, 02:36:43 pm Man, the guy is really sick. Flush him. He's also really STUPID! For the record, I voted that he should face criminal charges in the online poll. I do believe that these charges will need to be backed up by facts though and not just lock him up and throw away the key without any evidence.
Also, if anyone else knew about this and did nothing, they oughtta go up on charges as well. Anyone that condoned his pedephilia by turning the other head needs to either be in jail or at the very least out of office. And ANOTHER thing. Using alcoholism as an excuse is about as lame as it gets. I do suspect that there are Republicans who kept it quiet for shameful, yet obvious reasons, and Democrats that kept it discreet for release at a very opportune time. Those are merely suppositions on my part. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 03, 2006, 03:17:45 pm This is a GOP issue.
Like it or not. When one party claims moral superiority over the other...which the GOP has done to get votes....it better be willing to face the consequences. GOP moral values: 1) Torture is OK. 2) No more habeus corpus. 3) Macacas 4) come here, little boy..... yep, it's getting better all the time Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 03, 2006, 03:24:36 pm I think it's safe to say that the conversation had taken a more balanced tone throughout the day until aox graced us again. We get it aox...we understand you like the democrats...too bad you can't see that you're position is the pinnacle of hypocrisy.
Maybe you'd like to explain why the democrats kept Studds in office? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 03, 2006, 03:28:53 pm quote: More news? Isn't this what he was accused of in the first place? Why, pray tell, didn't these pages come forward in 2003, instead of waiting until a more politically opportune time? Hmmmmm? How much money has changed hands to get someone to come forward? That has nothing to do with my registered party affilliation, it has to do with my cynicism and skepticism of the Washington power machine. To those of you who defended Studds by saying his acts were consensual, the contents of the IM look nothing less than consensual. Hey, I'm not condoning, it's wrong, very wrong. But in the context to which people have tried to defend the actions of Studds, I don't see the difference, except that there's been no evidence brought forth about physical contact with Foley. There's also been no evidence other than a lone Democrat who thinks information was withheld from him. If anyone refuses to see the irony in the timing then you are following the Democratic party line. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 03, 2006, 03:31:46 pm Conan blames the victims, instead of the predator.
[}:)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 03, 2006, 03:36:40 pm Come on rwarn, you're a bigger person than that. Nothing in his response can be construde as blaming the victim.
What did he say that could possibly be construed as saying that he is blaming anyone other than Foley. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 03, 2006, 03:39:40 pm The joke just writes itself:
(http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/roughrider.jpg) Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 03, 2006, 03:43:12 pm So we've now devolved back into this being only a republican issue...sounds like the thoughts of a true "independent" there rwarn.
You never did answer why it was okay that the Democratic congress allowed Studds to remain in office after the exact same offense... Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 03, 2006, 03:52:33 pm Beats me, I wasn't even 20 years old at the time, and don't even remember it.
I was in college, and didn't pay attention to things as much then. I'd never ever heard of Studds until this week. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 03, 2006, 03:56:32 pm It's amazing how people (you and lon ok) suddenly can't read or research when they are presented with evidence that what they are saying is GARBAGE.
Try looking it up and explaining to me why this issue isn't selective outrage that fits the agenda of a particular party. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 03, 2006, 04:01:33 pm Rwarn has a selective memory. History doesn't seem to matter. I realize Rwarn that what this guy has done (or purported to do) is bad, but to neglect the track record of the democrats because you were only 20 is sad.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 03, 2006, 04:01:43 pm Well, it's hard for me to feign outrage when I didn't follow the Studds story at the time. It's hard for me to get outraged 23 years after the fact, especially when said congressman has been long gone.
I'm in the here and now, not 23 years ago when it doesn't matter NOW. But if you wish ... OOOOOHHHH!!! The OUTRAGE!!! [}:)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 03, 2006, 04:03:03 pm Thank you. Even if the smiley is as about as sarcastic as you can get.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 03, 2006, 04:13:16 pm Hey, I always chortle when a self-righteous politician self-immolates.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 03, 2006, 04:27:32 pm Here's some history for you RWarn:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Crane http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Studds I have looked high and low and cannot find anywhere that Studds expressed an ounce of remorse for his actions. Both Foley and Crane have expressed contrition. Also, Studds affair took place in 1973 and wasn't outed until 1983. Now are you willing to be objective, as the independent you claim to be, and assume as you have so readilly with Foley that there might have been some sort of cover-up amongst the Democratic ranks to keep that silent for TEN YEARS? What party was in control of congress back then? What shocks me even more than the fact that neither Studds nor Crane was jack-booted from the House, is that Studd's district kept re-electing this guy through 1994, while Crane's constituents were smart enough to give him the heave-ho in the next election. Please don't say "That's ancient history." It's relevant because Democrats want Foley and any Republican who knew about this run out of town on rails. That is a double-standard and it's as if they want a different set of ethics and morals for their own members than the Republicans, how can you not draw that conclusion. I can't even begin to imagine the screeching from the left if Bush were caught in an extra-marital affair, after saying Clinton's affair was irrelevant for so many years. The entire Congress needs to hold itself to the highest moral and ethics codes, without exception. The Republicans have taken the proper direction by washing their hands of this guy instead of trying to defend him, and demanding a full investigation. Doesn't sound like the actions of a bunch of guys afraid of being implicated in a cover-up. If there was a GOP cover-up, I want to see anyone involved booted out of Washington. At this point though, a cover-up is nothing but pure speculation. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 03, 2006, 04:29:09 pm quote: Roughrider?!?! Now THAT'S funny! Is that a pack of Roughriders in the bottom of the sword case?[}:)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 03, 2006, 08:47:37 pm quote: An effed up, pointless war, runaway spending, steady erosion of our freedoms, secret meetings with oil execs, open borders and open ports...these are some of the issues at hand. These are the things about which we can do something. 1996, and 1983, and 1066, while all very interesting to some, are history now. Fact is, the Republican rap sheet is growing by the day and the scale of their crimes and malfeasance dwarfs anything the Democrats have done in recent history. Not even Bill's member is this big. You and IP seem to think we want to play the red herring (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring") game, but we don't. Your guys don't deserve to be in charge and in about a month, some boots will begin to find some Republican butts. All that power...your guys could've changed the world for the better. Instead, they effed it all up. Its a shame. Its a tragedy. Its King Lear with trained monkeys playing all the parts. Have a banana Cordelia, the play's over. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Rico on October 03, 2006, 09:42:02 pm Someone needs to advise this fellow to stay silent...
His latest reason for his Behavior (http://"http://www.kotv.com/news/national/story/?id=112104") Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 04, 2006, 06:13:27 am Foley is a sick __hole. He's using a well-known tactic of high profile people that when caught, claim they are the victim. I've seen Democrats use this ploy, and I've seen Republicans use this ploy. He's BAD people. BAD people need to go, on both sides of the aisle.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 04, 2006, 07:08:08 am On a somewhat unrelated note, whatever happened to statesmen like Moynihan. I know he's passed on, but I really miss people like that in politics. I'm sure he had his flaws of course, he was human, but he was my kind of guy, regardless if I disagreed or agreed with him on issues.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 04, 2006, 07:58:11 am quote: CL- Why did you even bother to quote me since not one word of what you said even remotely addressed my statement? You give the Dems a free pass on all their past mal-feasance, and make the blind assumption there isn't still plenty going on. Your statements above characterize every presidential administration and congress for at least the last 100 years. The Abramoff and Foley scandals are indicative of Washington, not a political party. Can you honestly say without doubt that there aren't some Democrats who have been laundering money through PAC's, etc. like DeLay is accused of? The only charges brought on DeLay are from the district attorney in Travis County, Tx. I'm outraged that there seems to be enough evidence against DeLay that there should be federal charges, yet because he's a congressman, he's somehow immune to laws people like you and I are subject to. You'd rather ignore history that says there's been plenty of corruption on both sides of the aisle in order to make a partisan point about today. It's a prime example of what happens in Washington. Congress doesn't do the job they were hired to do by the voters, so they sit around and point fingers at the opposing party's weaknesses to keep the focus off their own weaknesses and criminal activity. This is the reason we have such an effed up legislative system that is for sale to the highest bidder. What will happen if the Dems take the house back over is that more of the slush fund money will be directed toward them. Changing the name of the party that is running the House or Senate will change nothing about how business is done in Washington. Take the blinders off and realize that the majority of the people in Washington are not there to make this a better country, they are there to be in power, advance their personal agendas, and become even richer. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 04, 2006, 08:09:00 am quote: Please. You must have the shortest of short term memories. If we stacked up everything perpetrated under Dem party rule we'd be digging through the stack for a thousand years. Nothing that has transpired in the last 12 years is worse than what has happened in the past and asserting that is just partisan BS. The Dems have been as active in the last 12 years in every facet of malfeasance just as the Reps have, you just turn a blind eye to it because it fits your paradigm. I bet if pressed for an answer to what you mean by "recent" you would somehow decide to stop just shy of the doorstep of the last and most heinous of Dem scandals. quote: FYI. You don't have to link to definitions of words for me. I, unlike most here, actually understand the words that I use. Though I don't like some of the things that have transpired in the last 12 years, out of control spending, open borders...I am not so blind as to ignore the fact that it was the Dem party that had the control of the helm for 8 years before that leaving in it's wake a brooding recession, a terror attack and corporate scandals that eclipsed anything that we had seen before. Inception, and preparation for all these took place unchecked under Dem rule. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: azbadpuppy on October 04, 2006, 09:23:07 am Pointing out past scandals seems to be very popular these days, on both sides. As the Republicans scramble to deal with blow after blow (no pun intended), it is easy to try and shift the blame and use past scandals to somehow justify their actions. In regards to the Foley scandal, the Republican party and those involved just need to fess up and move on. Not doing so only makes them look worse. What happened in the past is history. What we can do now about rectifying the issues at hand is all that really should matter.
What I find ironic and slightly amusing however is the so called 'moral' platform the Republicans have hijacked that has now been called into question. I for one am glad this has been brought into the spotlight and questioned for the hypocrisy it is. Lets focus on that. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 04, 2006, 09:27:29 am Yeah, let's just forget about the fact that the Democrats allowed on of their own to do the exact same thing BUT ALLOWED HIM TO STAY IN OFFICE, but some of those EXACT SAME Democracts are now pointing fingers across the asile as if they now have some new found moral outrage. Somehow that hypocrisy seems to escape you.
No one is trying to shift the blame, it lies squarely on Foley where it should. The hypocrisy exists in the fact that Dems and now trying to extend this to the leadership, when there is NO EVIDENCE of that. They fail to remember their leadership allowed far worse with Studds and KEPT HIM IN OFFICE. Dick Morris is correct in stating that the Dems are about to overplay this hand. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 04, 2006, 09:39:02 am I don't find the pointing out of all these scandals from one to two decades ago relevant to NOW.
Right NOW, the scandals in Congress and federal government are dominated by Republicans -- period. If the Democrats were in charge, would they dominate the corruption news? Probably. But they're not. So they don't. I don't deal with hypotheticals -- I deal with what's apparent and happening NOW. Those scandals from one to two decades ago involved Democrats that are no longer even in office, plus there's obviously been a lot of turnover since then. (And, gee, I'm so sorry I wasn't outraged at Gerry Stubbs or Studs or Toestubbed or whatever the hell his name was. Like I said, it was so long ago and I was so young ... what was I thinking of with my lack of indignancy? <sarcasm off.>) Besides, this "the other side does it, too" practically is a half-defeatist, apologist attitude. We need to hold politicians' feet to the fire, and this cynical stance sure isn't helping. That's what so frustrating. When the GOP took over both houses of Congress, I thought, "Well, the other side didn't do too well ... maybe these guys can do better." But when I see the corruption, monster deficit, stupid earmarks and a willingness to step on the Constitution, I just shake my head. These guys had a chance to really do something great, and they're blowing it. Make 'em pay. Raise hell with your e-mails. Zap 'em at the voting booth. Tell 'em you're not putting up with any more of their bullsh*t. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 04, 2006, 09:39:31 am azbad, I haven't used any past issues such as this to justify the actions of Foley. There IS NO justification for his behavior, regardless if he is an alcoholic or claims to have been molested. And the fact that he was on some panel that was supposed to prevent these kinds of things from happening makes it even worse. It is hypocrisy on steroids.
The people that point to this and claim it is a Republican (only) issue seem to have a short memory and are being hypocritical as well (imo). There is a terrible problem with corruption on both sides, especially over the last twenty years or so. As for the Republicans laying claim to being the party with morales; I can agree that they have definitely tarnished their reputation these past few years with scandals, no bid contracts, and more. I for one do not like to be snookered by anyone, and I've been snookered by both sides because I vote for the person and not the party. I'm thoroughly disgusted and if there are any people who knew about this and covered it up, they should get the boot, Republican AND Democrat. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 04, 2006, 09:42:04 am quote: I agree with a large part of this statement. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 04, 2006, 09:49:25 am quote: That's because it suits your argument to ignore the past. quote: Any independent is rolling their eyes at this rediculous comment. Do we need to post links to every Dem scandal in the last 12 years? quote: No, you deal with fallacies and aviod glaring facts to help you justify your position. quote: So the Democratic party has fundamentally changed? They were FOR child exploitation before they were AGAINST it? How VERY VERY John Kerry of them. quote: Politicians are blowing it. Both side equally suck about 95% of the time. Your comments are not equally balanced in your indignation and that raises questions about whether you actually believed this or not. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 04, 2006, 10:00:16 am <iplaw wrote:
Politicians are blowing it. Both side equally suck about 95% of the time. Your comments are not equally balanced in your indignation and that raises questions about whether you actually believed this or not. <end clip> You can choose to believe me or not. That was my thought at the time. The reason my comments aren't balanced is because the Democrats aren't in a lot of high-profile scandals RIGHT NOW, are they? I think I've made that clear. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 04, 2006, 10:05:21 am Since the topic of this thread has alcohol in it. How 'bout we all sit down and have a few of
these. (http://www.thecandlestick.com/images/store/beer_mug_small.jpg) What do y'all say? Aox, you're invited as well. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 04, 2006, 10:23:58 am quote: So we choose to twist in the wind and play the "that was yesterday" game? Is 2005 too far back for you to go? How about 2004? There have been plenty of Dems in the news the last few years. If you were really equitable you would be able to concede that political scandals didn't begin in 2006 and that both sides are equally detestable. Do you always dogpile on the party in power or just the individual? Would it be the Reps fault if Dems knew about Foley and didn't say anything? Anyways, why are we talking about Foley now; that was in the past, that happened last week...I want to know what is happening TODAY... BEER IS GOOD.... Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 04, 2006, 10:24:35 am quote: Give 'em control of the House and Senate and they will be within a year or two. [;)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 04, 2006, 10:26:44 am quote: I say we all meet at Arnie's some time and settle it once and for all like gentlemen with a keg o' beer and a battle royale dart game. [:P] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: azbadpuppy on October 04, 2006, 10:43:29 am quote: First of all the Democrats didn't allow Studds to do anything, he just did it. The main difference between then and now is the legal age of consent. In 1983 it was 16, and the page in question was 17 and consenting. Now because of newer laws placing the age of consent on the internet to 18 (much to Foley's credit, ironically) what Foley may have done (the jury is still out) is illegal, not to mention it hasn't been established if it was consenting, but that wouldn't matter anyway from a legal standpoint (but certainly from a moral one). Another fact about the Studds case- he stood by his ground and was not found to have done anything legally wrong, although he was censured due to Newt Gingrich's insistence (more hypocrisy since Newt is a bit ethically challenged himself). Studds won re-election and served in Congress until retirement in 1996. Doesn't sound 'far worse' than Foley to me. I know its easy to drudge up the past to excuse the present bad behavior, but lets try to focus on the here and now, shall we? As far as the evidence of a cover up? Stay tuned..... Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 04, 2006, 11:04:05 am quote:Point taken, sorry. Abramoff is a Republican scandal. Abramoff did not give a single dime to Democrats. Some of Abramoff's victims, the Indian tribes, did give money to Democrats. They gave money to people like Reid (Senator from the the great state of Vegas) in hopes of gaining assistance with gambling issues. They did it long before Abramoff came along, and they continued to do it afterwards. However, Abramoff's chief objective was to convince tribes and other clients to give less to Democrats and more to Republicans. This is MO of the entire K-Street Project creeps and it was very successful, even with the tribes. Its inaccurate and misleading to say that this is a "bipartisan" scandal simply because some of Abramoff's victims continued to give money to Democrats as they had done for decades. Abramoff conned and cajoled them into changing this long-established trend, and then used the money illegally for partisan purposes. The end. quote:I have to call them as I see them. Except for Jefferson's freezer full-'o-fifties, the Democrats are not exhibiting the same criminality these days as the Republicans. A scoundrel is a scoundrel. Chalk it up to the arrogance of power if you want; perhaps arrogance is the only explanation needed. Does it not, therefore, make some sense to take some of the power away from the Republicans and give it to Democrats? Would it not shift the center of gravity and change the status quo? The Republicans have been arrogant, and reticent about it. If they can't change on their own, then voters will have to help them. quote:As I said previously, the issues of today (and tomorrow) are what we, as voters, can address. Personally, I love history, but I don't appreciate it when others use it as a smokescreen...for partisan purposes.[;)] quote:More than anything, I want things to change. But your position seems to be "leave it alone", correct? Leave all the power in the hands of the Republicans. Where's the logic in that? These sleepy SOBs have had twelve years to affect change and things are far worse for their efforts, or lack thereof. quote: quote:Again, speculative. But even if it were true, what other choices does a voter have. We send somebody to Washington. If they fail us, then we send somebody else. quote:Blinders? That's funny. Ben Franklin said, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." I'll keep sending new folks to Washington until we get somebody who is willing to do the job right. Your position, however, is "stay the course"; keep these goofs in charge. Blinders...feh. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 04, 2006, 11:26:16 am The argument over whether the Republicans are sleazier than the Democrats or vice versa is like arguing about whether vomit is more disgusting than feces.
Anyone that allows a child to be harmed and keeps quiet is as low as the ones that harm them. Anyone that knew about this and kept quiet should resign immediately and hang their heads in shame for the rest of their lives. And that goes whether they’re Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, socialist, communist or anarchist. Period. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 04, 2006, 11:44:28 am CL-
"Point taken, sorry. Abramoff is a Republican scandal. Abramoff did not give a single dime to Democrats. Some of Abramoff's victims, the Indian tribes, did give money to Democrats. They gave money to people like Reid (Senator from the the great state of Vegas) in hopes of gaining assistance with gambling issues. They did it long before Abramoff came along, and they continued to do it afterwards." Do the names Daschle, Gephardt, Dorgan, or Reid mean anything to you? Again, suggested reading: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/13/AR2005121301582.html http://www.uncorrelated.com/2006/01/abramoff_democrats.html Whether or not the check was signed by Abramoff, one of his toadies, or their clients is irrelevant- It was done at his behest- in many cases with Dems. And what were Democrats doing in his skybox? It's bribery and it is rampant in Washington and there are a number of Democrats who have back-tracked, amended campaign reports, and returned filthy money. There is evidence there is just as much guilt to share with Dems. The last article clearly outlines "pay-to-play" that has been going on with the Democrats. Do you care to justify why it's okay for ANY lawmaker to engage in pay-to-play whether it's from a lobbyist or directly from groups legislation and favors will benefit? The insanity is we keep sending new people to Washington thinking that will solve the problem. The real problem is, we need to get rid of slush-fund PACs, clamp down on lobbyists, and get some people with real ba**s that will re-write ethics rules. How many other Abramoffs do you think are operating in Washington? Shutting him down is sticking a finger in the proverbial dyke. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 04, 2006, 11:47:36 am quote: Amen! Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 04, 2006, 11:50:42 am quote: Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 04, 2006, 12:16:53 pm quote: As with Foley. No one has presented proof of anything beyond his singular volitional act. quote: Ummmm... the page in this case was legal age as well. He should have just pulled a Studds and had sex with him. Studds did actually had sex with his page...you forgot that difference. quote: So it was okay morally for a Congressman to have sex with a page, but not for another one to talk about sex with a page??? quote: Yeah. Let's just forget the past because that makes you look good. Don't bother digging too deep there puppy, you may just find that you're party is as repugnant as the next. quote: This WILL backfire if they continue to push the issue because there is a story brewing about who and how those emails were obtained by...three year old instant messages...upcoming elections...something is pointing to smear site funded by George Soros. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 04, 2006, 12:18:58 pm quote:Let me repeat this. Indian tribes have been historically supportive of the Democratic Party for obvious reasons. They gave to these guys before Abramoff came along, and they continued to do so afterwards. Abramoff simply interjected himself into the process and convinced tribes to give a heck of a lot more to Republicans. He convinced them that he could help them influence Republicans, then he stole money and blew it on hookers, smack, Ralph Reed, and whatnot. The "Abramoff scandal" is entirely a Republican problem. The fact that Democrats continued to receive money from Abramoff's victims (less money, btw) after he came along is strictly incidental. Do you dispute this? quote:Victims, not toadies. How on earth does being a victim of theft make you a co-conspirator? Abramoff was not "spreading it around" he was directing money to Republican interests in a targeted and highly partisan way. Donations to Democrats by tribes were done "in spite" of Abramoff, not "at his behest". The Washington Post was wrong about this, leading to a series of retractions (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Howell"), culminating in the ombudsman's admission that the Abramoff scandal is "not a bipartisan scandal; it's a Republican scandal." quote: What were Republicans, including Istook, doing in those skyboxes? Pay-to-play stinks. Don't presume that I "heart" Democratic shenanigans. You should only presume that I am ready for a change. Convince me that Republicans will change the system, and I'd consider voting Republican, even though I do not support the idealogy. Fact is, your guys have had a dozen years of control, total control these last few, and the the gaming continues. I'll vote for a change. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 04, 2006, 12:26:58 pm quote:And that would be Congressman Dennis Hastert (R), Speaker of the House of Representatives. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 04, 2006, 12:45:03 pm quote: The Republicans have failed starting with their "Contract For America". There were very few who signed the contract who honored the term limits, ethics reform never happened- need I go on? And what was the reason for ethics reform not happening? Legislators on both sides of the aisle wilted when they realized it would mean less money, gifts, trips, and favors that have become expected accoutrements to elected office. Unless ethics rules are changed, by eliminating "PACs" and "caucuses" (and what ever other sanitary term people use for slush funds) and candidates quit taking contributions for their influence, it will not matter one whit which party is in control in Washington. As it sits now, money is in control of Washington. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 04, 2006, 12:54:16 pm quote: Actually, Studds (sorry that name still cracks me up, it sounds like the name of a gay bar) affair happened in 1973 but was not exposed until 1983. The age of consent varies by state and I believe even goes as low as 14 in New Mexico. Now, here's the kicker, the age of consent in Washington D.C. is 16. So if Foley had had physical contact instead of internet contact with a 16 year old page, it would have been perfectly legal and legally speaking, a non-issue. Now- sodomy, oral or uh, otherwise is still considered a felony under D.C. law whether it's homo or heterosexual, which means virtually all lawmakers in Washington could be guilty of a felony. However, these pages are supposed to be in Washington to learn how the political system works and ostensibly assist members of the Senate and HOR not to be personal play-toys of elected officials. So no, I'm not brushing aside Foley, just pointing out some ironies in the laws. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 04, 2006, 01:08:59 pm Funnier that Packwood?[;)]
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 04, 2006, 01:17:33 pm quote: You said "Pack Wood" uh huh uh huh[}:)] Now there was a real slimeball. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 04, 2006, 01:44:41 pm quote: Other than political hopefulness, what do you have to back this up? No one has any proof that Hastert knew of the IMs that ABC published, if that were the case he would already be gone. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: okiebybirth on October 04, 2006, 02:34:46 pm quote: Good thing he didn't investigate further with the IMs he DID see... otherwise he might have found out what took so little time for ABC to find. Seems like a game of "if I don't look, I will not find anything" [B)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 04, 2006, 02:41:25 pm I am quite sure that ALOT more people knew of this than are letting on. People knew this guy is what he is and just turned their heads for convenience, out of shame for the party, or let it go on until they found the right time to expose him. It's shameful behavior, in any case.
How 'bout that beer? I say we all go over to Brunoflipper's house. I hear he mixes a mean brew. But he won't give me directions! Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 04, 2006, 02:49:25 pm quote: The IMs available that he DID see were not illegal in any shape form or fashion according to what we know today. No one had seen the emails ABC had until they came out. No one knew to look for them because no one knew they existed. Someone paid for them to be released which means they were under lock and key by the page who was keeping them secret. No one knew of the existence of what ABC published until they did so. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 04, 2006, 03:09:51 pm quote: quote: Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 04, 2006, 03:32:15 pm Existence is a separate animal from knowledge of existence.
There were TWO sets of emails: 1. Contained NO illegal or improper material. Both Dems and Reps knew about these long ago; and 2. Secret emails purchased by someone from the page which NO ONE knew about other than the page and Foley. You cannot infer knowledge of 2 from knowledge of 1. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 04, 2006, 03:37:09 pm BTW, If N. Korea tests a nuclear weapon in the next few days you can kiss this story goodbye, as with any hopes of a Dem victory in November...so you'd better make the best of it now.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 04, 2006, 03:52:44 pm quote: Scratch that, IP- no one other than the page, Foley, and Mahoney, Foley's opponent in the election since it appears the leak to Brian Ross came from his camp. It's still an abuse of power on Foley's part, no doubt, but more than anything, I smell political trickery since Mahoney was fairing poorly in the campaign. Here's a time line from the Palm Beach Post which says the FBI reviewed the first set of emails in July and found he had not broken any laws. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/politics/content/local_news/epaper/2006/10/04/a8a_foleytime_1004.html He definitely broke the trust between legislators and pages, but it remains to be seen if there were actual violations of any laws since the pages were of the age of majority in D.C. 50 year old guys persuing 16 year old boys? Yuck! Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 04, 2006, 04:34:46 pm quote: You state with certainty that no one knew about them. You can't prove that no one else knew about them. You can't even KNOW that anyone esle knew about them. It's just your political hope. Same shoe--other foot. [}:)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 04, 2006, 04:36:34 pm quote: Oh, I expect something pretty dramatic and terrifying will be announced by the White House between now and the election. That's Bush's mantra. "When the going gets tough, scare the hell out of 'em." Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 04, 2006, 04:46:28 pm quote: Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 04, 2006, 04:59:38 pm quote:Didn't say that he did have knowledge of the IMs. He had knowledge of the emails, which were disturbing. Staffers (http://"http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/04/hastert.foley/index.html") are now saying they pleaded with him to intervene in '03. He should have acted. And he probably will be gone, if not before the election, then before the end of the year. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 04, 2006, 05:12:42 pm quote: Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 04, 2006, 06:54:05 pm quote: That's bs. We have no leverage left. Shrub has made us second rate. Rant all you want. When the Senate and Congress become democratic, you know run by the democrats, we will have 2 years of nothingness unless we get lucky and they start to impeach the jerk. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 04, 2006, 07:38:06 pm As with your other posts aox...yawn...
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 04, 2006, 07:40:06 pm quote: So Bush is controlling Kim Jong Il now...that's a CT to beat all CTs. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 04, 2006, 08:57:46 pm Back on topic.....
Now Foley sez he was molested as a teen: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061003/ap_on_go_co/congressman_e_mails;_ylt=Am_iec8HqdLuQ9NXWIYy58es0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ-- http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/03/foley.scandal/index.html Uh Oh Denny http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/04/washington/04cnd-hastert.html?hp&ex=1160020800&en=a3fbb0550d8f4163&ei=5094&partner=homepage Foley acquaintances question alcoholism: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/foley_alcoholism;_ylt=Ai5VMMmPBgZRhY3oNJiRqxSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ-- AP: Aide Says He Reported Foley 2 Years Ago... http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/03/foley.scandal/index.html It's all too naughty. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 05, 2006, 05:30:24 am quote: Come on, iplaw, I KNOW you're smarter than that. (Nice spin, though.) What Kim Jong Il does or doesn't do has nothing to do with when Rove orders the next Big Scare. That's based on the political needs of the Republican Party...not on any actual danger. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 05, 2006, 07:13:04 am HMMMM!
Will we see what this is all about on Countdown? O'Reilly? Who besides Randi?Is there something here? Stay tuned.... "Jeff Gannon, the former gay male escort/White House Corespondent, is scheduled to be on live with Randi TODAY in the 3rd hour of her show (5:30pm ET, Thursday)." Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 05, 2006, 07:18:11 am quote: So Rove will be telling them when to test the bomb? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: okiebybirth on October 05, 2006, 07:41:43 am Istook aide may be victim in page scandal.
http://www.newsok.com/article/2951137/ Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 05, 2006, 08:05:14 am How can someone who was 18 be a victim?
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 05, 2006, 08:08:06 am quote: Based on available information, all that was known until the more salacious IM's were published this week was the email exchange of Foley asking a Louisiana page when his birthday was, if he had a photo of himself, etc. That was the "overly-friendly" email exchange referred to. Apparently, Foley was told to cease and desist, and there's no evidence there was further contact with any other pages afterwards. Perhaps those who approached Foley thought they were handling it in the correct manner- it bordered on impropriety and they would keep him on a tight leash. I would think and hope, had they been privvy to the more sexually-charged exchanges, they would have booted him right then and there. Here is how similar situations are dealt with in the private sector: I used to be a regional sales manager for a large chemical company. A part of "management school" at the company was several hours on sexual harassment. Our policy with similar circumstances as the "friendly exchange" would have been to have a sit down privately with the perpetrator in question, tell them to stop and any further contact with the "offendee" or similar contact with another employee would result in termination. Had it been more blatant like the IM's that have now been released, that would have resulted in immediate termination. However, Congress is not a private or publicly held corportation. It is a national institution. As a matter of not breaching the public trust, IMO, the Republicans should have ousted him when they smelled smoke instead of waiting and hoping there wasn't something deeper. I suppose it's all in how the public wishes to percieve what constitutes a cover-up. ("That depends on what your definition of 'is' is" [;)]) Here's two of the timelines I was able to find on the matter: Seattle Times: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003287804_webfoleytime03.html DNC version: http://scoop.epluribusmedia.org/story/2006/10/4/215850/807 Reading both timelines (though the DNC version neglects to mention that the FBI found it a non-issue when they reviewed the emails in July) I see that there may have been Democrat operatives in the background who were waiting for the opportune time to blow this up, which makes them just as culpable in sitting on information until they could use it as fodder to bolster their aspirations in the November mid-terms, even though the "resident of the neighborhood" at the bar says he/she/it is neutral. I'm just curious why it was the emails were given to a journalist who is left leaning, instead of higher ups in the Democratic party for it to be dealt with as a disciplinary matter in Congress, not a public humiliation and outcry. That makes as yet un-named Democrats part of a cover-up as well if they waited for any length of time, instead of calling for him to be ousted when they became privvy to this. Here's my point: I think the Republicans grossly under-estimated how far Foley's actions may have gone and they should have dealt with him more severely. I'll bet anyone a box of Krispy Kremes that Foley, Crane, and Studds are not the only legislators to have ever had hanky-panky going on with pages and that the un-spoken policy. A friend of mine was a page in the early '80's in Washington and he told me upon returning that there were rumors of more than one representative or senator that was hot for young 'uns, including a Democrat senator from Oklahoma. IOW- rumors like the Foley rumor that started in 2001, were nothing new, it was a sick part of D.C. power culture. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 05, 2006, 08:17:47 am quote: Because it sells newspapers, and gains viewership on TV news channels. It also has the effect on people who only scan headlines with a cursory glance, that guys like Istook were involved in the scandal. Brace yourself, there will be more former pages coming out of the woodwork looking for media attention and money. The DNC is sharpening their fangs on this one. I think their "October Surprise" came a few days early. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: okiebybirth on October 05, 2006, 09:42:36 am quote: Where did you get your information that he was ever told to cease and desist? Why did the only Democrat on the board not get informed of what was uncovered? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 05, 2006, 09:53:26 am quote: First link second post of mine back about the Seattle Times timeline, I'll quote it and save you the time: "2005 Foley e-mails 16-year-old former page from Louisiana, asks what he wants for his birthday and requests a photograph. Former Louisiana page, describing one e-mail as "sick," forwards Foley e-mails to staff member for Rep. Rodney Alexander, R-La. Alexander contacts page's parents. Alexander staff members meet with staff of House Speaker Dennis Hastert and Clerk of the House, who direct Rep. John Shimkus, chairman of the House Page Board, to investigate. Shimkus and clerk tell Foley to cease contact with former page." I couldn't tell you why or why not the only Democrat says he wasn't informed. Why did they contact Hastert's aides instead of Hastert? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Bledsoe on October 05, 2006, 11:30:45 am Supposed experts continue to claim that Foley may have not committed a crime.
See: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/LegalCenter/story?id=2529811&page=1 I find this very hard to agree with if the law of other jurisdictions is anything like Oklahoma. See my related post: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5070 The LA Times in fact sates: Some reports indicate that Foley sent messages to pages from his Palm Beach-area home. In that event, Florida might be able to apply its tough laws even if Foley were communicating with a youth elsewhere. Besides its age-of-consent rules, Florida also makes it a felony to use the Internet to "seduce, solicit, lure or entice" a child to have sex or to attempt to do so. The state's courts recently upheld a case against a Virginia man who was attempting to seduce a child in Florida. The man tried to argue that the solicitation occurred in his home state. But a court held that Florida authorities could pursue him, according to Jay Howell, a Jacksonville lawyer and former director of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. See: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-legal5oct05,1,7063316.story?track=rss&ctrack=1&cset=true This report makes it sound like Florida law is very similar to Oklahoma. I would expect DC and California to be similar. These law professor types and defense lawyers need to hear from a prosecutor. On a related note Oklahoma law clearly also makes it a crime to give or offer liquor to a minor. Parents have even been charged. See 21 O.S.Section 256 § 856. Delinquent Minor - Contributing to Delinquency Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 05, 2006, 12:11:57 pm How many times are you going to repost this crap. ABC has officially removed the accusation that the page was underage. IT WAS NOT A CRIME, THE PAGE WAS 18.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 05, 2006, 12:25:06 pm Bledsoe, why are you making suppositions based on Oklahoma law? None of the actions supposedly happened in Oklahoma?
Of course, I like the way ABC did their story, how he likely won't face charges (between the lines insinuation: because he's a big, mean, sick, perverted Republican). The majority of the people aren't following the story, just the headlines which is what the DNC is hoping for. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 05, 2006, 01:23:19 pm MAJOR BREAKING NEWS:
http://www.drudgereport.com/page.htm FOLEY PAGE ASSOCIATE ADMITS MESSAGES WERE A PRANK... We'll see where this goes. Interesting that dots seem to be connecting here in Oklahoma. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 05, 2006, 01:48:20 pm If it was only a prank, why the resignation?
They're melting. "Voters say scandals will affect votes " http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061005/ap_on_go_co/republicans_ap_poll;_ylt=AtMPEU0xM0WuxSLxXdbkzBGs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OXIzMDMzBHNlYwM3MDM- Child predator put in charge of teen dormitory...So many Republican hypocrites, so little time. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 05, 2006, 01:53:41 pm quote: What??? Child predator.... Another one of your classic dis-jointed comments Aox. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 05, 2006, 01:57:22 pm quote: I stand by my comments. They seem disjointed to Conman but to the voters this all seems much too naughty. Conman, you have never posted anything objective about the repuglicants. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 05, 2006, 02:11:13 pm quote: Aoxymoron, quit bringing knives to gun fights. Let's start with this, you can do your own research on my posts from here: Contributed by Yours Truly yesterday: "The Republicans have failed starting with their "Contract For America". There were very few who signed the contract who honored the term limits, ethics reform never happened- need I go on? And what was the reason for ethics reform not happening? Legislators on both sides of the aisle wilted when they realized it would mean less money, gifts, trips, and favors that have become expected accoutrements to elected office. Unless ethics rules are changed, by eliminating "PACs" and "caucuses" (and what ever other sanitary term people use for slush funds) and candidates quit taking contributions for their influence, it will not matter one whit which party is in control in Washington. As it sits now, money is in control of Washington." Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 05, 2006, 02:15:33 pm Wounded animals....
a heads up.... http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/010187.php Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 05, 2006, 02:15:59 pm quote: I hope the page has a good case against ABC and sues their pants off (no pun intended). Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 05, 2006, 02:17:02 pm The story will be a net loss for the Democrats. They played their hand and should have folded instead. This story is developing into another RatherGate and they're scrambling into damage control mode.
Libtard rags are still reporting on the "story" as if it still exists as it did 6 days ago. They are desparate to keep the lie going long enough to get some more tread out of it. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 05, 2006, 02:38:18 pm quote: **STRETCH** **YAWN** Nice deflection there, Aox.[:o)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 05, 2006, 03:31:01 pm quote:You guys are hilarious. Maybe you should ask Foley to resume his seat, since this is all just a big Soros-funded, librul media, prank...IM him at "Maf54". Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 05, 2006, 03:34:51 pm No conspiracy. ABC is going to take this one up the tailpipe just like Rather did for shoddy reporting.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 05, 2006, 03:38:08 pm Even if the claim is true, Drudge has this rather significant caveat:
"The prank scenario only applies to the Edmund IM sessions and does not necessarily apply to any other exchanges between the former congressman and others." Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 05, 2006, 03:42:35 pm Either way we know now that the Page was 18. ABC still has some splain'n to do...even worse for them if the story is COMPLETELY bogus.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 05, 2006, 03:57:34 pm Three more pages come forward ...
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/three_more_form.html Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 05, 2006, 04:03:19 pm Well, why did Foley resign if this were just a hoax. Nobody here has accused Foley of doing anything illegal. It's just so un family values.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 05, 2006, 04:18:42 pm I think he's going to re-register as a Democrat after re-hab so he can have the "hypocrite" label removed. [B)]
The additional pages coming forward still don't amount to a GOP cover-up conspiracy if the pages never told anyone about it. I'd expect more to come forward, sounds like Foley thought the page program was some sort of buffet. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 05, 2006, 04:24:29 pm quote: The Drudge Report, iplaw? I thought you claimed that you didn't use right wing sources like Front Page and the Drudge Report? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 05, 2006, 04:31:20 pm Hey...no one disputes Drudge nowadays. Even the biggiest ABC and NBC have bowed to the Drudge as a competent news source.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 05, 2006, 04:41:42 pm quote: So the fact that ABC and NBC have bowed to it makes it unbiased and reliable? ABC and NBC (and all the others) will bow to anything that gets them a nice sensational story. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 05, 2006, 04:46:55 pm quote:Saw that, too. It doesn't exactly sound like ABC is on the run, does it? Drudge's "story" is loosey-goosey, to say the least. Surely you two (IP and Conan) agree, right? I think that we should continue to maintain those lofty standards that you guys demand from the other stories that don't quite fit through your square little earholes.[;)] We shouldn't jump to conclusions until we see some actual "proof". Aw, heck...go ahead and run with it. I can't quite see how this "revelation" makes a difference with regard to how the GOP has mishandled this affair, but it sure is fun to watch you guys try to spin some yarn out of it. You're far more creative than Hastert...really. He's so 'Rush on goofballs'. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 05, 2006, 04:49:02 pm Well, I think Foley ought to get a fair shake and a fair trial if there's reason for one. (Contrary to what you'd think from reading some of these posts, it ISN'T a foregone conclusion that he didn't do anything illegal. In fact...
"Both the FBI and Florida law enforcement have started preliminary inquiries, in advance of a possible full criminal investigation into whether Foley violated any laws. House officials have been ordered to "preserve all records" relevant to the matter." Christian Science Monitor (http://"http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1006/p02s01-uspo.html") Sure doesn't look to me like it's a forgone conclusion that he didn't do anything illegal. But, as is usually the case, you get almost half the crowd chomping at the bit to hang him and the other half rushing to defend/excuse him. Right down party lines. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 05, 2006, 04:50:47 pm By the way, that's from about four hours ago.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: TheArtist on October 05, 2006, 08:51:58 pm quote: It sounds to me (if there is any truth to it) like the IMs were PART of a hoax. The hoax was that the page (probabaly knowing foley was gay) lead Foley to believe that he, the page, was possibly gay or flirting or something to that effect. In other words he was leading Foley on, hoping to get him to say something that would get a good laugh. The IMs that Foley sent weren't a hoax, the hoax was supposedly what the page was doing to get Foley to say something "incriminating". If thats true then Foley probably though he was "getting somewhere" with the boy, but it was the boy that way playing him. The IMs would still reveal bad behavior on Foleys part. The IMs that Foley sent were real, the hoax was what the page was doing to get those IMs from Foley. IF that slant is true. It could be that both sides are trying to play cover-up. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: AVERAGE JOE on October 05, 2006, 10:56:45 pm quote: source (http://"http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/three_more_form.html") Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: AVERAGE JOE on October 05, 2006, 11:02:47 pm iplaw and the rest of the right wing apologists might want to huddle up and come up with a new plan.
quote: source (http://"http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,218043,00.html") Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: AVERAGE JOE on October 05, 2006, 11:07:31 pm So the page's parents release a statement calling their son a "hero". Still think this is a hoax?
source (http://"http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/05/page.statement/index.html") Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Bledsoe on October 06, 2006, 06:31:45 am Ok let me see if I get this hoax thing straight--an 18 year old "Conservative Republican" former Page, aparently "knowing" that Foley is some pathetic old queen, gets him all hot and bothered during a cyber sex session just before a House vote in 2003. The Page saves the IM text sessions and passes them around among his former Page friends so they can get their jollies. Sounds like they are all pretty sick puppies here.
But then after ABC writes its first story one of these former Pages give the 2003 IM texts to ABC. Foley thought it was real cyber sex, but if this is true the "Conservative Republican" former Page is no victim-he and his freinds should be ashamed. Obviously they knew that Foley would take the bait--they must have known something as early as 2003. Yet they told no one then, probably for the same reasons other Republican enablers protected Foley-preservation of power. Now three non-hoax former Pages come forward with similar stories. Some claim Foley wanted to trade housing for sex- a clear solicitation for prostitution which must certainly be a crime in DC regardless of the age of consent. see: http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/three_more_form.html Where is the vast left-wing conspiracy? In your wildest dreams!!!!!! Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Bledsoe on October 06, 2006, 06:45:27 am And then there's this.
Ex-Page's Lawyer: Drudge's "Prank" Story "A Piece of Fiction" Be sure and read the DO story: http://www.newsok.com/article/2951710 Jones said Edmund has done nothing wrong. "Jordan was a minor when the alleged events described in the media occurred," Jones said. "He retained me ... to guide and assist him through a difficult investigative and media onslaught because he thought I might be able to help him." See also: http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001739.php Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 06, 2006, 07:00:36 am Drudge has "updated" (http://"http://www.drudgereport.com/page.htm") the "story". It looks like it has been downgraded to a "claim", whatever that means.
Anyway, Drudge is crawdadding on this. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 06, 2006, 08:35:38 am quote: Joe, The page cited in the CNN article is the one he had the "friendly" exchange with which no one has disputed. The "hoax" page is the man who now works for Istook's campaign. Here's the sick/sad part, we are finding there are potentially so many involved that we will just have to assign numbers to them as they turn up so we don't confuse them all. I can almost hear Foley upon greeting a new class of pages: "Oh look, what a sthmorgathboard!" [}:)] Now, I'm curious to know why Nancy Pelosi doesn't want Louis Freeh to run an independent investigation, considering he's worked under both Republican and Democrat administrations (I believe nominated as a federal judge under Bush I and as elevated to FBI director by Clinton.) She wants to handle it as an ethics committee issue. House ethics committee- now there's an oxymoron if I EVER heard one. [:o)] I can just see the closed door meetings from members of both sides trying to cover their a##es collectively. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 06, 2006, 08:44:06 am quote: Drudge, like every other media outlet (including those who sprang the story) is counting on people to read only the sensational-sounding headline and not follow the story. "Oh, okay, I'll vote for the GOP now, since it was all a hoax, unless I see another headline to the contrary." It's gotten so confusing that I heard on the radio this morning "Now Istook is involved" instead of "One of Istook's aides is involved". Last night on the various news channels they were reporting that aside from Brian Ross working on anniversary stories for Katrina and 9/11, that he didn't really see a story in the Foley scandal initially. As I mentioned before, the entire American population is being duped by both sides to allow their vote to be swayed by a "who knew what when" or "he/she said he/she said" instead of making an intelligent vote on what has and has not happened legislatively in the last two years. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Rico on October 06, 2006, 08:45:42 am This Just In.....!
Michael Jackson just issued a statement through his spokesperson.... "We should not be so quick to judge.. an innocent.. completely platonic.. relationship, between this Senator Mister Foley and his young friends.. it is a beautiful thing...! I am joining the Republican Party.." Jacko 2006 The National Enquirer Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: AVERAGE JOE on October 06, 2006, 08:59:03 am Conan,
Here's a quote, published in the "updated" Drudge Report, directly from Stephen Jones, the attorney for the former page who supposedly did this as a prank: quote: Drudge got the original story wrong. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 06, 2006, 10:06:05 am Okay Joe, let's see if we can keep these kids straight (no pun intended)
The "Stephen Jones page" is the: Drudge, 2003 IM, hoax, then non-hoax, working for Istook page. The "CNN page" is the friendly email, sponsored by Alexander, from Louisiana, parents don't want to be involved, 'sick, sick sick' page. This is a media cluster f[:O][:O]K More or less, Drudge was doing what every other media outlet does these days- get the sensational headline out there and deal with the details later. If it's a left-leaning news organization, they don't want the details to clear up until Nov. 9, if it's right leaning they want it to clear up sooner. It's irresponsible, but in today's rapid-fire thirst for immediate news, this is what we have created. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 06, 2006, 10:07:29 am quote: [}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 06, 2006, 10:31:16 am quote: Please quit reprinting false news....who would make this out to be a prank? I know pranks. This is no prank. The prankster. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 06, 2006, 01:56:16 pm I just thought I'd come back and post something since this thread seems to be so dead.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 06, 2006, 01:59:06 pm Hand me the whip, I want to beat this horse one more time...[8)]
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 06, 2006, 02:00:41 pm quote: Whip it! Whip it good! [:D] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: snopes on October 06, 2006, 03:27:31 pm The "real" papaspot?
(http://www.vh1.com/shows/series/100_greatest/one_hit_wonders/img/devo_main.jpg) [:o)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: jamesrage on October 06, 2006, 04:16:48 pm quote: It should be shame on hypocritical democrats for pretending to have a moral highground here.Do Gerry Studds,Mel Reynolds and Fred Richmond ring a bell?All guilty of pedophilia or attempted pedophilia but not forced out by thier fellow democrats. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 06, 2006, 04:48:29 pm quote:You are kidding, right? The Republican leadership, because they wanted to protect themselves, their seats, and the GOP, covered this up. They should have done the right thing but instead, they gave aide and comfort to a pedophile. Conservative Bob Novak reveals (http://"http://www.nypost.com/seven/10042006/news/nationalnews/sick_new_foley_e_mails_nationalnews_niles_lathem__post_correspondent.htm") that Congressman Tom Reynolds, (R) NY, encouraged Foley to run again at a time when Foley was considering retirement. This was AFTER Reynolds read the emails. Putting politics before the welfare of children...that's 'sick, sick, sick'! Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Bledsoe on October 06, 2006, 04:52:07 pm Teens "egging on" Foley in online sex scandal
This is rich--blame the Pages--clearly Foley was "entraped" by those precosious "perv" kids. See: http://www.sltrib.com/ci_4451609 "Rep. Chris Cannon today attempted to clarify public comments he made last night seeming to blame teen-age congressional pages in the unfolding scandal with disgraced ex-Rep. Mark Foley. "These kids are actually precocious kids," Cannon, R-Utah, told KSL Radio's Nightside. "It looks like uh, maybe this one email is a prank where you had a bunch of kids sitting [around] egging this guy on." Cannon, who has defended House Speaker Dennis Hastert's handling of the scandal, also said Thursday that there's not much to do other than educate kids to the dangers of going online. "Frankly, this is the responsibility of the parents," Cannon said. "If you get online you may find people who are creepy. There are creepy people out there who will do and say creepy things. Avoid them. That's what you have to do. And maybe we can say that a little more to the pages." Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 06, 2006, 05:15:31 pm SurveyUSA poll: (http://"http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReportEmail.aspx?g=fc8a6007-bbbb-4405-811e-ee99a1673e92")
quote: Time to put away the ether boys, America ain't sniffin'. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 06, 2006, 05:24:57 pm (http://nightlight.typepad.com/nightlight/images/bush_foley_1.jpg)
Write your own caption. BTW, the cropped face on the far right...Brownie. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: jamesrage on October 06, 2006, 06:07:41 pm quote: Democrats are very guily of putting politics before the welfare of children. Again do Gerry Studds,Mel Reynolds and Fred Richmond ring a bell?Three democrats,three pedophilers let off the hook by their fellow democrats, some of these democrats who let these pedophilers off are still in office. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Bledsoe on October 07, 2006, 06:30:28 am Oklahoma Lawyer of former page sends email to blogger
"Remove my clients name and picture" http://www.newsok.com/article/keyword/2951965/ The blogger's site is: http://passionateamerica.blogspot.com/ Demo Mirror site: http://www.okvoter.com/foley/ More info on the blogger William Kerr: http://www.newsok.com/article/keyword/2951712/ Only in America.......!!!! Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: jdb on October 07, 2006, 09:02:12 am (http://nightlight.typepad.com/nightlight/images/bush_foley_1.jpg)
"Hell, I caught one down on my ranch once, had a winky this big...Hey, waddya say we all fly down there after wer' done with the camera's here?". Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 07, 2006, 01:04:46 pm quote:You should read before you post. First off, you are not telling the truth. None of these people are in office today. Second, all of these people were investigated and judged...censure and even jail time resulted. Hastert and other Republican leaders ignored Foley's behavior, leaving the children at risk. Why would they do that? Why would Reynolds, who saw the emails, encourage Foley to run again? Answer that, Jamesrage. What should Americans do about that? Once we have that figured out, then maybe we can talk about how things were mishandled 10-25 years ago. You are complaining about the actions of individuals 30 years ago, I'm more worried about the actions of several Republican leaders in the here and now. It looks like a coverup. Coverups are okay with you, Jamesrage? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 07, 2006, 01:26:30 pm Another staffer comes forward. (http://"http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/06/AR2006100601888.html") He told Hastert's office in 2003 about Foley. Hastert did nothing.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: jamesrage on October 07, 2006, 11:48:56 pm quote: Of course not, after serving more terms in office they eventualy lost a election. quote: Only one served time in jail.As for censured,please humor me and tell me what the hell a censure is when it comes to politics.Is that where all the politicians get together and do a formal "shame on you,don't do it again" and thats it? Gerry Studds continued to serve 5 more terms and was not jailed as you claim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Studds Studds was re-elected five more terms after the censure. Mel Reynolds was allowed to run and he was never thrown out by the democrats. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Reynolds In August 1994, he was indicted for having sex with a 16-year-old campaign volunteer. Despite the charges, he continued his campaign and was re-elected in November 1994. Reynolds initially denied the charges, which he claimed were racially motivated. On August 22, 1995 he was convicted on 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography. He resigned his seat on October 1, 1995. Reynolds was sentenced to five years in prison and expected to be released in 1998. However, in April 1997, he was convicted on 15 unrelated counts of bank fraud and lying to SEC investigators. These charges resulted in an additional sentence of 78 months in federal prison. Reynolds served all of his first sentence and served forty-two months in prison for the later charges. At that point, U.S. President Bill Clinton commuted the sentence for bank fraud. As a result, Reynolds was released from prison and served the remaining time in a half way house. [1][2] Fred Richmond never served any time in prison. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Richmond In 1978,he was charged with soliciting sex from a 16 year old boy. The misdemeanor charges were dropped after Richmond agreed to undergo professional counseling. [1] In his fourth term in Congress, Richmond was charged with tax evasion and possession of marijuana. He resigned his seat as part of a plea agreement and was sentenced to a year and a day in federal prison. [2] He is currently a resident of New York City None of those pedophilers were ever thrown out by their fellow democrats and they were allowed to still serve. quote: I have no idea if what you say is true about alledged claims of republicans covering up the incident,liberal media likes to spin things so much that it ain't funny.I do not think pedophilia is a subject that comes up between coworkers.I do not think that while the politicians are out smoking drinking or what ever it is they do at the end of the day that pedophilia attractions is a subject that comes up.As for emails anybody can claim that so and so sent them a dirty email and print it out on paper. quote: As Americans we should either demand to our politicians that these pedophilers in office be thrown out of office,lose all their benifits /etirement benifits and be tossed in prison or we start voter initiatives across the country to deny any benifits to politicians guilty of commiting crimes and to require by law our elected officials to throw these scum out or face loss of thier own job and time in prison. quote: I am confident that the republicans will kick out these scum,unlike the democrats who have a histoy of tolerating such evil. quote: History has a way of repeating itself Some of these democrats were still in office for many years after they commited their crimes,alot of the democrats who tolerated them are still in office. If Foley was a democrat,you libs would be calling us hate mongers because Foley is a homosexual and there is no way our dislike of him could stem from the fact he is a pedophile,but instead you all would be trying to use the hatemonger/homophobe card out against anyone who spoke out against Foley and you be arguing that if it was a 17 year old girl instead of a 17 year old male that we wouldn't give a **** thus trying to play more of that hatemounger/homophobe card.You libs would be complaining that were are violating his civil liberties by reading his emails and you libs would be arguing that the page was of the age of consent and any other excuse to let him off the hook. Scum are scum reguardless if they have a "D" or "R" next to their name.Scum should be thrown out of office and into jail ,loose all their benifits/retirement packages,permanately be barred from public office and so on. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Rico on October 08, 2006, 07:01:11 am Flash...!
Just in... The Republican Party has placed another plank in their platform... Knowledge of "Pedophilia" within the Congress is now acceptable behavior by the Leadership.. Citing Democratic Values.. The following statement was issued by Whitehouse Spokesperson Tony Snow... ""We do not condone their behavior.. We do not feel they should be allowed to own computers... In an effort to continue to spend as much money as superhumanly possible... Their is a place for them in our Party... A Vote for the Republicans is a Vote for a Party that is willing to meet the new world order and look it squarely in the eyes and say..."" """Could we increase our credit line..?""" source: "Men with Hats and No Cattle...."[}:)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 08, 2006, 09:01:48 am Jamesrage,
I think you and I are in agreement in that those who put those children at risk should be held accountable. But you should really think through what you are saying. Do I think that those previous incidents involving Republicans and Democrats are okay? Of course not. Nor do I think that prior screw-ups and mishandlings are a legitimate defense for a coverup of Foley's actions. And I would agree that pedophilia is a distateful subject, but that is in no way an excuse to ignore it. And homosexuality and pedophilia are seperate, unrelated behaviors. Pedophilia is not liberal behavior, its mental illness, it harms children, and nobody's defending it. You've also tried to blame the so-called, "liberal media". Tell me, Jamesrage, what exactly are they getting wrong here? Or is it that you simply wish that they would forget about it and help sweep it under the rug as the Republicans are trying to do? You've given four bad excuses for why the Republican leadership took no action to protect these children. You left out the "blame the children" defense, btw. Truth is, the handling of this matter is indefensible and it should, and will, have consequences for the GOP. In the end, they don't care about the safety of these children, all they care about is politics. Speaker Dennis Hastert told Laura Ingram (http://"http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1543874,00.html") this week: quote:That's what they care about. Politics. Are you going to keep trying to back them up? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: AVERAGE JOE on October 08, 2006, 03:45:29 pm Nice to see jamesrage show up every once in awhile and make a complete horse's rear end of himself. Way to try to blame a pedophile's misbehavior and a shameful GOP coverup on the "liberal media". [}:)][}:)][}:)]
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Bledsoe on October 08, 2006, 05:17:51 pm Republicans Cling To Conspiracy Theories
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/8/18420/1065 It's not easy for Republicans to defend their handling of Mark Foley's inappropriate behavior. The facts, developing day after day, simply aren't on their side. But who needs facts when fiction has worked so well for the GOP in the past? Enter the paranoia, stage right. As you know, top-level Republicans are peddling a Grand Conspiracy Theory that the Foley scandal was somehow designed and funded by George Soros and peddled by Clinton operatives. But that's wasn't their first defense tactic. Initially, shocked conservatives tried to argue that the emails were fake. That attempt to derail the scandal was short-lived, given that the authenticity of the emails was confirmed by multiple sources. Wingers turned next to describing the explicit messages as a "prank", a "joke" as James Dobson called it. It was a clever ploy by "16 and 17 year old beasts." Come on, it's obvious, isn't it? The pages clearly possessed impressive techniques of hypnosis. They used a calculated combination of smileys and "LOLs" to force the Republican Congressman to ask them to measure their penises for him. "Beasts" indeed... Alas, as more and more pages came forward--including one that is currently serving in Iraq--attacking the pages would appear....callous. Onto Plan C. I like to imagine the strategy session for Plan C went down something like this: trembling Republicans huddled around a table, trying to figure out how to fight back against their Foley "matter" (it's not a scandal you see, at least according to Hastert). One intrepid Republican comes up with the brilliant (and fool-proof!) idea. He takes a dog-eared copy of Byron York's The Vast Left Wing Conspiracy and begins carefully ripping out page after page. He meticulously folds each page in a teeny tiny little square, and then puts all the little name-laden papers in a big bowl. Pick a paper, any paper! George Soros! CREW! ABC! Pelosi! Emanuel! Liberal blogs! That should be enough names to weave a conspiracy theory, right? And so, armed with a defense only a black-helicopter fearing X-Files fanatic could love, Republicans took to the talk show circuit and cried foul over a Democratic "plot" to take over the government this fall. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 08, 2006, 10:28:32 pm Buncha damned fools. Why don't the folks in charge take responsibility for nonaction and lying (especially on Hastert's part) and start rolling some heads?
Instead, they make baseless charges and look like paranoid nutjobs. That's the way to inspire confidence with the voters 30 days before an election. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 09, 2006, 02:00:54 am http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-foster-altschul/october-913-is-national-_b_31238.html
"Republican predatory behavior of course extends far beyond the battlefield." Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Bledsoe on October 09, 2006, 10:39:45 am Second major conservative newspaper, The New Hampshire Union Leader, calls on Dennis Hastert, John Shimkus and Rodney Alexander to resign.
See: http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Hastert’s+inaction%3a+Speaker%2c+others+must+go&articleId=a5600e06-374e-4a6c-b686-d016410b25fd Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 09, 2006, 10:46:18 am Yes, it is time to turn, turn, turn....
Rein in The Decider (continued) Katrina vanden Heuvel http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?pid=128196 "First a bipartisan American Bar Association panel decried George W. Bush's unconstitutional use of signing statements. And now, according to The Boston Globe, the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service (CRS) has declared that the President is using signing statements as "an integral part of his comprehensive strategy to strengthen and expand executive power at the expense of the legislative branch." Read the confidential report posted here. Signing statements are assertions by a president that he (or, someday, she) need not obey or enforce the bill he is signing into law. Before the current Bush regime, all presidents in our nation's history had issued signing statements for approximately 600 laws. But King George alone has challenged over 800 laws. A recent example – in signing a bill barring the Pentagon from using illegally obtained intelligence, The Decider suggested that he alone can make that determination. The CRS report deemed that many of Bush's assertions of presidential powers are "generally unsupported by established legal principles." Anyone who cares about our nation's historical separation of powers and the checks and balances of our Constitution knows that George Bush must be reined in and reined in now. Fortunately, we have the opportunity to elect a Congress that will do just that on November 7." Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 09, 2006, 11:51:29 am quote:off-topic Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 09, 2006, 11:56:20 am quote: Bledsoe- As an attorney, how much weight does heresay carry in court? So far all the American public has been fed is heresay and innuendo as to the Republican leadership's handling of Foley and the emails. Please share with us your hard evidence that not even the news media seems to be privvy to. Foley abused his power and the public trust and stepped down as any legislator should have. He is repeatedly referred to as a pedophile, yet there doesn't appear to be any evidence presented so far that he possessed images of underage porn, nor that he had sex with anyone underage, nor solicited anyone underage for the purpose of sex. It's a public tarring and feathering without taking into account all the facts surrounding the situation, nor waiting until they are all completely clear. Would you want one of your own clients to be handled in this fashion? "Pedophilia or paedophilia (see spelling differences) is the paraphilia of being sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent or peripubescent children. Persons with this attraction are called pedophiles. In contrast to the generally accepted medical definition, the term pedophile is also used colloquially to denote significantly older adults who are sexually attracted to adolescents below the local age of consent,[1] as well as those who have sexually abused a child." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia So far, I've not heard nor read one news story that says Dennis Hastert was contacted directly about Foley's behavior. Every news story says a staff member of another rep notified Hastert's staff. If Hastert wasn't notified by his staff then that represents deftness on his part, but not a great cover-up. I find it interesting how the American psyche works. In the days prior to "Foleygate" the GOP was showing favorable gains in public opinion polls on the real issues like gas and oil prices, war on terror, tax issues, immigration, etc. Now polls show the GOP dropping in those areas even though the only thing that has changed with congress in recess has been a sensationalized media circus with both sides firing off memorable headlines then worrying about the real details later on. And now, the media came up with another red herring this weekend with the "revalation" that Foley had sex with a 21 year old page who was a college graduate. What was the point in that? How many other legislators nailed someone in their early 20's this weekend? The electronic media is getting more people to tune in, and newspapers and magazines are doing brisker-than-usual business. I'm not being an apologist for the GOP or Foley, I'm pointing out how quickly people are duped by the media these days and how quickly the media (lib and conservative) will report with minimal facts and a lot of innuendo. Headlines sell. Sensational and salacious headlines sell even better. I'm willing to bet after the election, Foley will be charged with a misdemeanor or two, there will be nothing substantive uncovered about a cover-up, and the story will whimper silently off into media history. I sincerely hope that if the Democrats get their much-coveted majority in congress that they will pay heed to and observe ethics and will put an end to lobbyists and special interests running Washington. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 09, 2006, 12:06:40 pm quote:I challenge this claim. Several Congressmen and Congressional aides have already admitted prior knowledge of lurid emails. These are first-hand accounts, not "hearsay and innuendo". Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 09, 2006, 12:22:17 pm The more the problem is denied or scoffed at, the bigger it becomes.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 09, 2006, 12:22:53 pm quote: Please cite an article anywhere from the mainstream...not a hatchet mill, that says Hastert, not Hastert's staff, was notified personally. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, after-all it is liberal-thinking attornies who ask juries all the time to let criminals off because the criminal was abused/raped/etc. as a child. And liberals seem to be more enamored with the rights of criminals rather than those of the victims. Someone else other than the perpetrator is the one to blame for his/her mis-deeds. So I guess it should make perfect sense that the Speaker of the House that is to blame. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 09, 2006, 12:46:09 pm quote: How about from Boehner himself? This appeared in the Washington Post: quote: Online, the Hastert quote was later removed and replaced with this: quote: Of all the things he could say, why would Boehner say that, and then immediately turn around and retract it? Coverup? Subsequent statements from other Congressmen and aides themselves support the claim that Hastert had prior knowledge of Foley's stuff. Do I need to keep going? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 09, 2006, 12:55:37 pm quote: I don't know the answer any better than you do as to that question, other than supposition or innuendo. I see ABC seems to be enamored with all sorts of sexual odd-balls these days: http://www.examiner.com/a-331568~John_Mark_Karr__TV_producers_stopped_after_Karr_seen_near_school.html Slime sells. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 09, 2006, 01:18:01 pm quote: That's just my point. Boehner laid it all out there, then they got their story straight and Boehner retracted his original statement. Now others have come forward to say that Hastert knew something prior to last week. Its obvious he did nothing, so if he knew something and did nothing, why would you need an investigation to say that the Republicans mishandled the situation? Just today, a WaPo (http://"http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/08/AR2006100800855.html") article reports that retiring Congressman Kolbe (R,AZ) saw "sexually explicit" emails from Foley to a page in 2000! Six years of prior knowledge, and the Republicans did nothing to stop it. That's not innuendo, that's a fact. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: AVERAGE JOE on October 09, 2006, 01:20:14 pm quote: hey, I see a pattern here -- GOP screws up, it's all LIBERALS' fault. [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: AVERAGE JOE on October 09, 2006, 01:21:37 pm quote: yep, it's all the liberal media's fault, too. [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 09, 2006, 02:13:48 pm Well, at least it's not the opposition's fault.
staying OT http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=22368 "Chicago companies may not be able to count on Rep. Hastert much longer." "money for nothing, sex for free" Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 09, 2006, 02:16:10 pm quote: The reason there is need for an investigation is because no one is certain beyond doubt who knew what/when. Stories change, new information pops up, rumors are dispelled. No one seems to be able to agree when people were told things, who was told, and who told them and whose job title included the responsibility of taking care of the issue. How is it possible that not one Democrat was aware of Foley's leanings when it appears all the page classes for at least six years (so far) knew about this guy's creepy behavior? Far from a GOP cover-up, it's been a Congressional cover-up until it became politically expedient to leak it into the media for political gain. I cannot believe you don't have the slightest skepticism about the timing and method by which this was outed. Foley's sexual leanings apparently weren't that big a secret in Washington and you guys are all feigning horror that this guy was hidden by his party, yet you dismiss as irrelevant that sexual predators have been hidden by the Democrats as well in the past, because it was in the past and it fits your paradigm. The only reason anyone is calling for Hastert's head is because it implies a huge sex scandal stemming from the top of the House GOP down, without any real proven merit up to this point, considering no comprehensive investigations are complete. Dennis Hastert and others are being tried by sound bites in the court of public opinion. There are legal processes by which fact-finding, and ultimately punishment or absolution takes place. This story has served it's purpose of mis-leading the average yutz who just bounces from headline-to-headline forgetting that the media makes money off generating news and in their haste to get the word out, frequently gets details wrong. If you were caught in a similar whirlwind as Hastert is, wouldn't you want it carefully investigated instead of being tried by public speculation and sound bites? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: AVERAGE JOE on October 09, 2006, 02:28:46 pm quote: 1) The strategy shifts to "instead of accepting responsibility, try to spread the blame to include the opposition." 2) It's Average Joe, not average yutz. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 09, 2006, 03:23:13 pm "2) It's Average Joe, not average yutz."
Point taken [;)] The one person for whom it is clear should have taken responsibility already has by resigning and he is now hiding in re-hab. The strategy for the left so far has been to make a shot-gun blast of one person's actions to include the top of the GOP in the house in order to shore up their own political aspirations. As of yet, it remains to be seen, if anyone else is culpable and won't until investigations are completed. Anything else is speculation until the legal and political investigations and processes have taken their course. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Bledsoe on October 09, 2006, 06:53:44 pm quote: Conan--you are correct that hearsay (with certain exceptions) is not admissiable in court--except in the so-called "courts" GW Bush has established with the help of the 109th Congress. Seriously, I expect grand juries to convene--subpeons to be issued--oaths to be taken and the "evidence" will be presented in due course. Now --the free press and democracy are at work--this is the good and bad of American politics, a very bad system, except for all the others which are worse. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 10, 2006, 05:24:14 am quote: There's another court where it's admissible almost without restriction--the Court of Public Opinion. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: okiebybirth on October 10, 2006, 09:07:11 am From John at Americablog:
Denny Hastert has put me in a difficult position. I've heard rumors. Unsubstantiated talk. No proof yet. But I've heard things. Just like I heard things about Mark Foley this past July. This time I've heard things about a relatively senior Republican member of the House, and also about someone on the Speaker's own staff. Both rumors seem relevant to this story as it's unfolding. So here's my dilemma. Denny Hastert says that if I don't report the unsubstantiated allegations I've heard, I'm a criminal. But the thing is, I'm also a journalist, and a good human being. I don't think it's right to print unsubstantiated rumors I've heard, rumors that could make life quite difficult for this Republican congressman and this senior member of Hastert's staff. So what do I do? Do I publish unsubstantiated rumors about a GOP congressman and one of Denny Hastert's top aides? I don't want to, I don't think it's right, but Denny Hastert says he'll sic the FBI on me for hurting children if I don't. And he'll probably end up blaming Nancy Pelosi if my rumors turn out to be true and I didn't go public with them. So what do I do? Maybe I'll just call Denny Hastert's office on Monday, tell them what I've heard, and let them decide how comfortable they are with the Speaker's new standard of justice. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: okiebybirth on October 10, 2006, 09:13:11 am ^^ Could he be talking about this?
From Wayne Madsen: "There is also much focus on the relationship between House Speaker Dennis Hastert and his chief of staff, 56-year old Scott Palmer. Hastert and Palmer, Hastert's longtime unmarried adviser, live together in a DC townhouse along with Hastert's Deputy Chief of Staff, Mike Stokke, while Hastert's wife Jean lives in Yorkville, Illinois and stays at a hotel when she visits Washington." ________________________________________________ The railing of the "sanctity of marriage" by closeted gay Republicans while either ignoring or covering up the crimes of a pedophile is the height of hypocrisy. I'm sure McHenry (R-NC), the attack dog for the Republicans, doesn't want them to go looking in many more closets either. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 10, 2006, 10:45:01 am Feh. This insinuation is nothing. A lot of Washington lawmmakers and staffers room together because housing costs are so high in the Beltway.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 10, 2006, 11:14:28 am quote: Some anonymous 17 year-old blogger getting his jollies...whoo hoo...real smoking gun stuff there Okie.[:o)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: okiebybirth on October 10, 2006, 11:17:15 am quote: Not to imply there is smoking evidence, but I do think we are going to see closeted Republicans outed. It's all hearsay at this point, I agree. But it does puzzle me why his wife would stay at a hotel while she is in Washington???? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 10, 2006, 11:35:20 am My guess is the missus doesn't like the smell of dirty gym socks at the townhouse [?]
Do you have personal knowledge of Mrs. Hastert's sleeping habits in D.C? If there is a mass outing, I'm sure the GOP will have their own mass-outing of leftie hetero conservative christians. [:O] Why does anyone give a schnitzengruber about this petty crap when congress is spending money like drunken sailors, lobbyists and special interests are taking precidence over your own interests, there is dissention amongst the ranks on national security, we still have no energy policy, etc.? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 10, 2006, 12:52:37 pm CNN -- Hastert seems to be positioning his senior staff as fall-guys for a coverup...they hid it from him, or so the story goes.
Anybody believe that? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: okiebybirth on October 10, 2006, 01:05:18 pm quote: From the Chicago-Sun Times: Just ran into Jean Hastert, the wife of House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) in the hallway outside the speakers' Capitol office suite. She just dropped in on her husband. It's a rare D.C. appearence for Mrs. Hastert. She was here a few weeks ago for President Bush's State of the Union address. She was off to an afternoon tea, at an ambassador's residence, sponsored by some international group. When in Washington, the speaker lives in a group house with his chief of staff, Scott Palmer and top deputy, Mike Stokke. I asked her if she is bunking with the guys. She is not. She stays in a hotel. This was published on Valentine's Day. ______________________________________________ Chief of staffs normally don't room with the boss, and I could care less unless someone is caught up in something they either hid or was careless not to notice or investigate. I'm not particularly friends with Haskert or his wife, do you have personal knowledge of anything being said? I think we all read the news and I haven't heard anyone say they have any personal knowledge on this subject. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: okiebybirth on October 10, 2006, 01:34:00 pm quote: Family Research Council believes it: To: Friends of Family Research Council From: Family Research Council President Tony Perkins October 9, 2006 - Monday Party of Whose Values? The ricochets of the Foley scandal continued to whistle overhead this weekend. As a guest on Fox News Sunday I again raised last week's report by CBS's Gloria Borger about anger on Capitol Hill that "'a network of gay staffers and gay members protect[ed] each other and did the Speaker a disservice'" in the Foley scandal. On Friday, an internet site quoted a "gay politico" observing that "[m]aybe now the social conservatives will realize one reason why their agenda is stalled on Capitol Hill." Sunday's New York Times revealed that a homosexual former Clerk of the House of Representatives, Jeff Trandahl, was "among the first to learn of Mr. Foley's" messages to pages. The Clerk's job is described as a "powerful post with oversight of hundreds of staffers and the page program." This raises yet another plausible question for values voters: has the social agenda of the GOP been stalled by homosexual members and or staffers? When we look over events of this Congress, we have to wonder. This was the first House to pass a pro-homosexual hate crimes bill. The marriage protection amendment was considered very late in the term with no progress toward passage. Despite overwhelming popular approval, the party seldom campaigns as the defender of marriage. The GOP will have to decide whether it wants to be the party that defends the traditional moral and family values that our nation was built upon and directed by for two centuries. Put another way, does the party want to represent values voters or Mark Foley and friends? I hope this is not the direction Haskert is going to take. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 10, 2006, 03:28:25 pm quote: For the same reason anyone paid attention to Clinton's misbehavior--it's the nature of the beast to make everything possible out of the foibles of the opposition. 'Course the shoe's on the other foot now and some of the same people that were morally outraged by Clinton's behavior are now saying that this is no big deal. I can't help wondering if maybe some Democrats are feeling just a bit of sweet payback. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: jamesrage on October 10, 2006, 06:10:42 pm quote: I am not excusing any behavior.I just think the hypocritical democrats who are pretending to be all sanctimonious in this situation need to be knocked off thier high horse.The media should expose the pedophiling vermon in office they should also expose the hypocrits in office who let off other pedophilers who are now pretending to be want something actually done about Foley.If Foley was a democrat they wouldn't give two ****s about Foley.As I said before I am confident the republicans will actually do something about the vermon in their ranks,unlike the democrats who have a history of letting these vermon off the hook. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: rwarn17588 on October 10, 2006, 10:32:36 pm So what exactly is a "vermon"?
[}:)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: NellieBly on October 11, 2006, 07:24:31 am What the heck is a pedophiler?
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 11, 2006, 07:45:33 am quote: I believe that's a phile clerk who organizes philes on a bicycle. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: okiebybirth on October 11, 2006, 09:14:56 am A source with firsthand knowledge of events says that this coming Thursday, Kirk Fordham — former chief of staff to both Foley and more recently Rep. Tom Reynolds, R-N.Y. — will testify that a few years ago he was told by then-House clerk Jeff Trandahl that Foley had been stopped while trying to enter the pages' dorm in an apparently intoxicated state. The source said Fordham will testify that he recalls this being the event that convinced both him and Trandahl to warn Hastert's office, with Fordham designated to have the conversation with Hastert's chief of staff, Scott Palmer. The source said that both aides had been watching Foley's behavior with pages and that Fordham had counseled Foley to watch his behavior.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2550501&page=1 Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 11, 2006, 10:16:55 am quote: Which still doesn't implicate direct knowledge on the part of Hastert. All it looks like is one gay trying to keep it quiet and protect another gay. I want to know why Trandahl and Fordham didn't march over to Hastert's townhouse and tell him directly when it happened. Essentially, it all sounds like a cover-up of sexual harassment by the minions, not the leaders of the house. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 11, 2006, 10:25:24 am Yesterday, according to David Letterman, a call girl business in DC was busted. Dave joked that we now had a sex scandal the whole family can watch.
But I was wondering if the police were sent in there by a higher authority to get dirt on politicians. Nah, that would be a conspiracy theory and that's not cool. I am thinking of starting a new thread for predictions on an October surprise. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 11, 2006, 10:42:26 am http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=350 WOODWARD’S OCTOBER SURPRISE: THRUST ASIDE BY DEEP THROAT By Don Davis More than 30 years after his career was launched by one Deep Throat, Bob Woodward, in the ultimate of ironies, is losing valuable airtime and publicity due to another type of “Deep Throat,” Mark Foley. Woodward, promoting his book, State of Denial, confessed to Mike Wallace on 60 Minutes, “this Foley prick is choking off my oxygen and leaving me twisting slowly in the wind.” “In other words,” the still sharp-as-a-tack Wallace replied, “a Congressman on the back of a page, is knocking you off the front page.” The original Deep Throat — finally revealed last year as the FBI’s Mark Felt — has now passed the torch to a new generation Deep Throat, who Congressional pages often referred to as “Mark-Felt-Me-Up.” Commentator Pat Buchanan, making his record 104th MSNBC appearance in a single day, astutely pointed out that Mark Foley is really the ideal successor to Mark Felt, since Foley would have been extremely comfortable working with J. Edgar Hoover. Meanwhile, Woodward, greatly upset that the Foley scandal is dominating programs such as Hardball, is frantically working to get out a second edition, to be entitled State of the Vile. Early galley editions of this new work, obtained by this reporter, reveal that Woodward has documentary proof that the page scandal goes beyond the walls of Congress, and into the White House itself. Indeed, a confidential memorandum from Attorney General Gonzalez to Bush warns that “there’s a dancer on your Presidency.” Woodward also turns up evidence that Defense Secretary Rumsfeld denied requests to issue protective condoms to White House staff. Finally, Woodward, now convinced that books on gay issues are likely to outsell those on foreign policy, told Larry King that his next project will be devoted entirely to the gay culture, to be called War With Bush. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: okiebybirth on October 11, 2006, 11:24:41 am quote: One gay covering up for another gay? How about one Republican covering for another Republican? Or how about one self-loathing closet case pandering to the Republican party who wants to keep them in the closet and leading duplicitous lives that ruin not only them but helps breed this self-loathing sickness? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 11, 2006, 11:37:50 am quote: That takes a good stretch of the imagination, my guess is you were blessed with a far more limber imagination than I was. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: okiebybirth on October 11, 2006, 11:58:03 am quote: The stretch of imagination is on your part, assuming that gays are protecting each other from being exposed as pedophiles. I find that offensive that you'd reach for the "blame the gays" to defend your position that Haskert is free from liability. How far will you go? Suppose Fordham and Foley were black, would you then say it was one black man protecting another black man? Or does that make you a little uncomfortable whereas you feel free to say it looks like a cover-up by gays? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 11, 2006, 01:13:40 pm The stretch of imagination refers to your constant fantasies, referrals, and insinuations of Hastert being a closeted gay. Secondly, based on any evidence leaked by the media so far, Foley's not a pedophile, since these were not pre-pubescent boys.
Being identified as gay isn't too popular with the far right of the GOP, which was the reason Foley didn't run for Senate a few years back. He was advised at the time that Democrats would out him during that campaign, but it sounds as if they were willing to leave him alone if he'd have lesser aspirations for power. Or now it would seem, until the Dems needed a boost in the polls. Call me skeptical, but if the Dems would have had the approval numbers in the areas of public opinion on substantive issues, they wouldn't have needed Foley. Fordham is an admitted homosexual, so is Foley. They aren't black so I'm not going to debate hypotheticals with you. Can you come up with any other reason, other than Fordham wanting to help save a friend's political career for not contacting Hastert mono-a-mono, instead of Hastert's minions? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 11, 2006, 01:52:24 pm quote: Substantive issues? The war in Iraq? Lies about WMDs? 650,000 dead Iraqis? The struggling economy? Secret prisons? Spying on Americans by the federal government? What kind of substantive issues do you want? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 11, 2006, 02:13:15 pm The GOP had been seeing surging gains in opinion polls about national security, the economy (it takes a lot of spin to say the economy is suffering), moral issues, etc. prior to the Foley scandal.
One of the lib propagandists was gloating the other night about how the Democrats have surged so nicely since Foleygate broke. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 11, 2006, 02:18:14 pm quote: Okay. I buy this one. quote: We've been over and over this one. If he was lying, so was every other intelligence agency on the planet. quote: I haven't read the paper on this one yet, but I am getting ready to right now. quote: Lowest unemployment in recent history, record DOW levels, extremely low interest rates, relatively little inflation and the highest ever recorded tax renvenues, and a deficit which is shrinking rapidly as we saw in the news this morning. quote: We've been over these ad infinitem as well. quote: How about some that aren't regurgitated air-america talking points. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: okiebybirth on October 11, 2006, 03:23:17 pm quote: Foley was a closet case, not a admitted homosexual. He declared his homosexuality as he slunk off to rehab. I haven't had constant fantasies about Haskert, that is your term, I merely stated once what was out there on the web and admitted it was just heresay at this point. There could be many reasons Fordham didn't go directly to Haskert, one of them being he may have been following the chain of command; I don't know the answer to that question but I wouldn't grab a chapter from the book of the Family Research Council and throw it out there that it's some gay conspiracy that is tainting the good name of Republicans. By you saying it was one gay covering for another gay doesn't reflect well on you. As far as changing the word "gay" for "black" in your sentence, I wouldn't expect you to attempt that because it would amplify what you really were doing, scapegoating. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 11, 2006, 03:23:39 pm You mean like, "are you better off today then you were 4 years ago?"
This thread is getting tired. Bring on Mel Gibson. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 11, 2006, 03:38:45 pm quote: You insinuated or directly stated in three different posts about Hastert being gay. If Fordham and Foley tried to keep their little secret to themselves, then that would be a conspiracy between two gay men, would it not? I don't read Family Research Council clap-trap. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: okiebybirth on October 11, 2006, 06:10:43 pm quote: Stating their sexual orientation and implying it's relevant to them keeping a secret to themselves is gay-baiting and scapegoating. And you are the one throwing out there that they conspired to keep it a secret, not any reputable media. You are the one who is tying the information supposedly not getting to Haskert because Fordham and Foley are gay. (Let me replace "gay" with "black" in your statement and see how it sounds.) All it looks like is one black trying to keep it quiet and protect another black. Not quite what you'd say in polite company, huh? Conan, it doesn't sit well if you would have said it about two black men and it doesn't sit well that you said it because they are gay. Instead of it being about race or sexual orientation, it's more than likely because of party affiliation that things occurred however they happened. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 11, 2006, 09:20:58 pm quote: Surges don't mean much for Republicans OR Democrats. Talk about spin...I'd say it's spin to say that the Republicans were even experiencing a surge at all. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 11, 2006, 09:28:34 pm quote: Nice try, but no cigar. The CIA actually warned the White House about making claims that Saddam tried to buy uranium from Africa. And remember the International Atomic Energy Commission report that said that Iraq was six months away from having nuclear weapons? You know...the one that Bush cited but the IEAC said doesn't even exist? That didn't come from any intelligence agency. And then there's the Downing Street Memo... quote: The deficit is shrinking rapidly. Nice. What about all the debt that was rung up in the meantime? And we're still a far cry from a surplus. As for "lowest unemployment in recent history" you should get some kind of AWARD for THAT bit of spin. What do you call "recent history"? Would you say about since...oh...let's say....BUSH took office? quote: Yep. And you've yet to score a single point on it. quote: Nice try but, again...no cigar. I've never listened to Air America in my life. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 12, 2006, 09:16:50 am quote: I didn't selectively cut and paste on any of these polls, this was all the data available: CBS News/New York Times Poll. Sept. 15-19, 2006. N=1,131 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (for all adults). . "Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling the campaign against terrorism?" . Approve Disapprove Unsure % % % ALL adults 54 40 6 Republicans 82 14 4 Democrats 28 64 8 Independents 55 40 5 . Trend: 8/17-21/06 55 38 7 8/11-13/06 51 43 6 7/21-25/06 51 42 7 6/10-11/06 47 46 7 5/16-17/06 46 47 7 5/4-8/06 46 48 6 4/28-30/06 45 45 10 4/6-9/06 47 46 7 3/9-12/06 45 47 8 2/22-26/06 43 50 7 TIPP INDICATORS Investor's Business Daily/Christian Science Monitor/TIPP poll conducted by TechnoMetrica Market Intelligence. N=approx. 1,000 adults nationwide. . Based on a scale of 0 to 100, with scores above 50 indicating a positive near-term outlook. (methodology) ECONOMIC OPTIMISM INDEX PRESIDENTIAL LEADERSHIP INDEX NATIONAL OUTLOOK INDEX . 9/5-9/06 50.5 41.9 44.9 8/1-5/06 45.6 40.0 42.3 7/5-9/06 47.3 42.7 43.0 6/5-9/06 46.2 40.8 42.7 5/1-6/06 46.1 38.9 42.8 4/1-7/06 48.6 40.6 44.0 3/6-11/06 49.1 38.4 43.5 2/6-10/06 50.5 42.9 45.1 1/2-5/06 50.5 42.4 45.7 12/05 51.1 44.3 45.8 11/05 48.6 41.1 44.1 10/3-8/05 42.0 41.2 41.9 9/6-11/05 41.2 42.8 41.9 8/1-5/05 50.9 50.7 48.1 USA Today/Gallup- "If the congressional elections were held today would you vote for: Date Rep. Dem 7/28 40 51 8/7 41 50 8/18 45 47 9/15 48 48 10/6 37 58 Those are surges in public opinion for the GOP about issues and the powers that be, that are from reputable sources. There were plenty of indicators other than these that Republicans were starting to fare well in the polls again. I'm AM somewhat suspect as to how data is gathered and disseminated in the various polls. There are some polls that are only good to wipe your a$$ with. However, I'll respectfully disagree on your point of surges being irrelevant. In the psyche of the average voter they are important. They can serve either party well or decimate their hopes for power. If the news or poll numbers are good for one side, the monkey-see, monkey-do voter goes with the masses without much thought. If the numbers are bad, it can create voter apathy, because they think it's already such a lost cause for their party or candidate, that they don't even bother to vote. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: iplaw on October 12, 2006, 10:32:26 am quote: Okay I finally read it. This may actually be good news. With this five fold increase from Lancet's analysis from a one ago (the 100,000 figure that was much discussed and disputed) next year we can expect them to report (5x) 3 million dead, and 15,000,000 dead by 2008, when GWB's successor is elected. Add to that the 500,000+ per year who have been reported as fleeing the country, per other news reports, and Iraq will be nearly depopulated by November 2008. Only Kurdistan will be left. [xx(] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 12, 2006, 11:07:06 am quote: I think that was the original plan us Neo-Cons secretly met, discussed, and planned wasn't it IP? Sounds like it's going swimmingly well. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 12, 2006, 01:14:59 pm quote: We also disagree on what the definition of the word "surge" is. These changes are pretty small. I also stand by my assertion that real surges mean little unless they happen on election day. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 12, 2006, 01:18:43 pm quote: Well, you can always deny the credibility of any information that you don't want to hear. The fact is that this was a credible study that used the same clustering technique that has been used and accepted for years for estimating deaths after natural disasters. I don't know what it's margin of error is but even if it was 25% (which I'm sure it's much lower than that) that's still a lot more people killed than would have been killed if we hadn't come to their "rescue". Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 12, 2006, 02:09:21 pm quote: "Surge", "gain", "upward trend" whatever. I suppose using the term "surge" could imply large gains which wasn't my intention. At any rate, the GOP was starting to see some upward trends in public opinion as clearly shown in the polls I posted. It might not be important to you, but politicos and party propagandists follow the shifting sands of polls and trends. When the other party is starting to gain, it's time to get more vitriolic, slander the opponent, and start with the dirty tricks. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Chicken Little on October 12, 2006, 02:25:35 pm Interesting gossip from The New Republic (http://"http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=47854"):
quote: (http://www.aftonbladet.se/kultur/0411/09/KULTUR-09s05-rove-97_368.jpg) DOH! Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 12, 2006, 02:46:04 pm quote: Oh, from THAT standpoint, I agree. But as far as likelihood of winning the election, what's on the evening news the day before the election is a better predictor. When you said "surge", I thought you meant something like "spike". Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 12, 2006, 02:51:52 pm *YAWN*
Another Libtard article with quotes from mysterious and un-named sources. *ZZZZZZZZZZZ* Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 12, 2006, 02:53:47 pm quote: Hey Papa, I don't believe anything until the morning AFTER the election. [;)] Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: papaspot on October 12, 2006, 04:25:13 pm quote: Smart practice. I understand that Dewey actually LOST. Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 16, 2006, 11:06:13 am list of GOP Pedophiles
Republican County Board Candidate Brent Schepp was charged with molesting a 14-year old girl. Republican Congressman Mark Foley abruptly resigned from Congress after "sexually explicit" emails surfaced showing him flirting with a 16-year old boy. Republican executive Randall Casseday of the conservative Washington Times newspaper was arrested for soliciting sex from a 13-year old girl on the internet. Republican chairman of the Oregon Christian Coalition Lou Beres confessed to molesting a 13-year old girl. Republican County Constable Larry Dale Floyd was arrested on suspicion of soliciting sex with an 8-year old girl. Floyd has repeatedly won elections for Denton County, Texas, constable. Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation. Republican Party leader Bobby Stumbo was arrested for having sex with a 5-year old boy. Republican petition drive manager Tom Randall pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 14, one of them the daughter of an associate in the petition business. Republican County Chairman Armando Tebano was arrested for sexually molesting a 14-year-old girl. Republican teacher and former city councilman John Collins pleaded guilty to sexually molesting 13 and 14 year old girls. Republican campaign worker Mark Seidensticker is a convicted child molester. Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls. Republican Mayor Tom Adams was arrested for distributing child pornography over the internet. Republican Mayor John Gosek was arrested on charges of soliciting sex from two 15-year old girls. Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison. Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17. Republican Committeeman John R. Curtain was charged with molesting a teenage boy and unlawful sexual contact with a minor. Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida. Republican zoning supervisor, Boy Scout leader and Lutheran church president Dennis L. Rader pleaded guilty to performing a sexual act on an 11-year old girl he murdered. Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor. Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl. Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child. Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile. Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl. Republican advertising consultant Carey Lee Cramer was sentenced to six years in prison for molesting two 8-year old girls, one of whom appeared in an anti-Gore television commercial. Republican activist Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s. Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s. Republican Congressman Donald "Buz" Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail. Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos. Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children. Republican campaign chairman Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child and was arrested again five years later on the same charge. Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page. Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter. Republican Judge Ronald C. Kline was placed under house arrest for child molestation and possession of child pornography. Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar. Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped. Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. "Republican Marty"), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD. Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography. Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media. Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him. Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl. Republican anti-gay activist Earl "Butch" Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her. Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison. Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl. Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy. Republican legislator Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children). Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was found guilty of molesting a 15-year old girl. Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a male child. Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl. Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters. Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl. Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy. Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison. Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000. Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession. Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet. Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a "good military man" and "church goer," was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison. Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter. Republican campaign worker, police officer and self-proclaimed reverend Steve Aiken was convicted of having sex with two underage girls. Republican director of the "Young Republican Federation" Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison. Republican president of the New York City Housing Development Corp. Russell Harding pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer. Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was found guilty of raping a 15-year old girl. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women. Republican Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the rape of children in Iraqi prisons in order to humiliate their parents into providing information about the anti-American insurgency. See excerpt of one prisoner's report here and his full report here. http://www.armchairsubversive.com/ Point is that they are all wrong! Point is that the current GOP leadership has covered up Foley since 2000. It is more important for those in the GOP to remain in power than to protect our under aged (children) pages. It doesn't bother you that these people put their jobs over the safety of children? Thought the GOP was suppose to be the party of accountability, ethics, faith, and morals. What happened? Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: NellieBly on October 16, 2006, 11:12:27 am Apparently Foley was seen and photographed in Austin partying this weekend.
Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 16, 2006, 11:18:16 am quote: I thought that was Mel Gibson..... Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 16, 2006, 11:28:59 am quote: Conman, You got humor? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7235455391220080588&q=jon+stewart Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 19, 2006, 07:04:20 am This just in:
"Former Representative Mark Foley (R-Fla.) slipped out of re-hab yesterday and had to be escorted from the Library of Congress. Apparently, he was found drunk and drooling over some pages." Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Conan71 on October 19, 2006, 08:54:33 am Lest anyone doubt the assertions that have been made about the politics of personal destruction and how Foleygate has been exploited during this election season:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003308328_demsattack14.html Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: aoxamaxoa on October 19, 2006, 10:33:58 am quote: Exploited? You do have a sense of humor, conofaman Title: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: mr.jaynes on June 10, 2007, 01:32:53 pm quote: Quite the Rogue's Gallery there. And uh, as you'd mentioned Randall Terry, he's a really fine piece of work! Title: Re: Absolved: The alcohol made me do it... Post by: Vashta Nerada on April 20, 2014, 09:15:31 pm A Bixby Police Chief...
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Former-Bixby-police-chief-arrested-on-DUI/GzqeOUJ_AEGri5zg7iM8cw.cspx |