This should tell you something about the river tax

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by twizzler

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I realized today that there are NO businesses that have voiced opposition to the River Tax. NONE. No billboards, no ads in the paper, no mailers subsidized by area businesses. No wonder the anti's are whining about campaign funding and the cost of signs. They have no supporters among that community.[:O]

For once the Chamber of Commerce may be voicing the consensus opinion of business people in this city. Small or large, they buy the plan or don't oppose it enough to contribute.

That should tell you how business people look forward to an investment in our future river. Unless you're one of the conspiratorials who believe they're just afraid of the tax vampires.

Maybe it is because businesses generally don't pay sales taxes. And on the purchases that they do pay sales tax, that portion can be written off as a cost of business and/or passed on to the end user.

If this were property tax based, more businesses would be hootin' and hollerin'.

quote:Originally posted by swake

The leaders of the no side are Michael "Only Christians should hold office" Bates, Dan "The Godless Zoo needs a creationism exhibit" Hicks, Chris "no MBA" Medlock, Gwen "Immigration" Freeman, Jack "Hate the Chief because he sued me" Henderson and Randy "TABOR" Brogdon.

And of course Roscoe


What a team.

Leaders? Maybe self-appointed. But they are not my reason for voting 'no' and I am sure many other 'no' voters would agree.

I don't think Bates, Medlock, et. al. have as far reaching influence as you think. They have failed at most other election attempts (as you have stated many times). What makes you think they can sway 50% - 65% of the votes this time?

Maybe the River Tax is just a poorly designed plan. I don't mean the projects themselves, but the execution of the plan to get it to pass. I think the original thought was that the 'free' money from the private donors would be enough to push this through. But they were wrong.

Many in north Tulsa, east Tulsa and the suburbs feel left out of this. Sure the river has importance but many residents would prefer neighborhood park improvements and county beautification projects in addition to some river development.

Look at the city and county tax proposals over the last 15 years that have passed or failed.

The ones that passed - Vision 2025, 4-to-Fix, local school bond issues - all have one thing in common. The projects were equitably spread out to every area of the city/county/school district.

The votes that failed - Tulsa arena/convention center projects, library bond issue - had most of the projects funds concentrated on one part of the city/county.

But they have contributed to other "vote no" campaigns. I remember seeing the billboards, newspaper ads and signs. And sales tax here, but not outside Tulsa county puts them at a disadvantage so your argument is not strong. It is unlike the business community to have such a consensus. I beleive they know this is an effort to "increase the size of the pie" and everyone will get a bigger slice.

North Tulsa always feels left out. East Tulsa is not that organized. And the plan is as good or better than anything we've seen. No, this is significant that none of the business community feels strongly enough to commit money to sink the effort.

I believe it could be closer than some think.

[Porky]

quote:Originally posted by twizzler


Most Tulsa Chamber members are not retail businesses, so again, whether the sales tax goes up or not does not affect them.

What about their checking accounts?

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by twizzler

No, this is significant that none of the business community feels strongly enough to commit money to sink the effort.

Or those business that are against it see no reason to put any money into a foregone conclusion.

I beleive they know this is an effort to "increase the size of the pie" and everyone will get a bigger slice.

I believe most see it as something that really won't affect them much either way.

And sales tax here, but not outside Tulsa county puts them at a disadvantage so your argument is not strong.

Most Tulsa Chamber members are not retail businesses, so again, whether the sales tax goes up or not does not affect them.

A foregone conclusion. Well, you got it figured out gurl. Why didn't you just 'splain it to us simple folks long time ago so we didn't waste our time and money. Kaiser needed your pithy advice. He's in the book.[]

[shadows]

Twwizzler’s post not only hit’s the nail on the head but drives it home.  The explanation is well within a line of reason to us common people, but seems to offend the Lords of the Ring of the inter circle that stand to profit. Liken as recorded in the chronicles the Lords of the Rings of the pasts have been brought down.  This vote may be a starting point to the needed changes.

[waterboy]

There you go Twwizzler. One of your compadres to the rescue. A golam by the name of Smeagle.[]

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by twizzler

No, this is significant that none of the business community feels strongly enough to commit money to sink the effort.

Or those business that are against it see no reason to put any money into a foregone conclusion.

I beleive they know this is an effort to "increase the size of the pie" and everyone will get a bigger slice.

I believe most see it as something that really won't affect them much either way.

And sales tax here, but not outside Tulsa county puts them at a disadvantage so your argument is not strong.

Most Tulsa Chamber members are not retail businesses, so again, whether the sales tax goes up or not does not affect them.

A foregone conclusion. Well, you got it figured out gurl. Why didn't you just 'splain it to us simple folks long time ago so we didn't waste our time and money. Kaiser needed your pithy advice. He's in the book.[]

Had the plan been explained differently.... Than Ms Miller's lack of explanation.. This would not have garnered the amount of opposition as it has.


Look at it this way.. If you spend $1.00 right now.. with tax the total is $1.09.

If the tax passes.. You spend $1.00 the total with tax will be $1.09

(Two items very much the same but entirely different.)

Had someone, with a lick of sense, brought Huffman out front at the beginning..

This would have had far more support.

Having the Tulsa Metro Chamber as your financial fact collector.../cheering section... is just plain stupid.

The item that everyone that has ever shopped for property would have understood from the get/go...
"It is very hard and most of the time impossible to find a piece of dirt that is just where you want it... just the right location... and suitable for all your needs."


However... here we are. At an entirely different intersection.

From the very start this plan gave off that unmistakable vibe of suspicion. Whether that was stupidity or ignorance... you decide.

If this tax fails it will not be because of the Voters.

It will come to rest on the County, City, and the stinking end results we get for our Hotel Motel Tax agreement with Mister Neal and Company.

As I have always said... and the choir continues to repeat as though it is some miraculous revelation.

This has never been about how much it would cost me as a tax payer.. It has far more to do about the continued "in your face proposals from the Usual Suspects"

I will truly be sorry for many of you if this does not pass...

So much energy... So much Hope.

So many "dimwits" in charge of what should have been a straight forward 1st grade math question.