This is Bad

[swake]

No, what is important is that we make it as humane and fast as possible to minimize or better yet, eliminate, any suffering or discomfort for the person being executed - keep it from falling into the purview of "cruel and unusual".  That is the only way we can legitimately claim to be a caring/compassionate society with our killing.

The REAL question is why would it not be important to you to reduce their pain and suffering while killing them?    If you think there is a better way, let's hear it... inquiring minds want to know!!

No, that's NOT the question. I don't think we should be killing them at all.

The more and more I think about this, a society that is bloodthirsty enough to kill criminals for revenge is a society that breeds criminals that are bloodthirsty enough that they might deserve to be killed.

Read the comments on the Tulsa World site that celebrate the pain Oklahoma caused this killer. It's disturbing, especially from such purportedly "Christian" state. we are the Christian Taliban.

18 states and DC don't have the death penalty but 6 of the 9 states with the lowest murder rates don't have the death penalty. Only three death penalty states have a murder rate greater than 4 in 100,000. 26 states that do have the death penalty have a rate greater than 4.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates

And that's setting aside the cost of the death penalty and the mistakes that have been made with putting innocent people to death.

[heironymouspasparagus]

No, that's NOT the question. I don't think we should be killing them at all.

The more and more I think about this, a society that is bloodthirsty enough to kill criminals for revenge is a society that breeds criminals that are bloodthirsty enough that they might deserve to be killed.

Read the comments on the Tulsa World site that celebrate the pain Oklahoma caused this killer. It's disturbing, especially from such purportedly "Christian" state. we are the Christian Taliban.

18 states and DC don't have the death penalty but 6 of the 9 states with the lowest murder rates don't have the death penalty. Only three death penalty states have a murder rate greater than 4 in 100,000. 26 states that do have the death penalty have a rate greater than 4.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates

And that's setting aside the cost of the death penalty and the mistakes that have been made with putting innocent people to death.

I am more and more with you on whether to even do this or not - mostly based on past history of Texas and Ohio putting innocent people to death - especially in Texas when it has been conclusively shown that the person could have had nothing to do with the crime way before the execution event.  Even redder than OK.... dipsticks.

As for studies - well, maybe.  Any study looking at a state by state comparison is not looking at the real data.  It is a metro by metro area basis that counts.  If you take out the top 15 or 20 murder metros, the entire rest of the nation - even the high murder rate states - have a massively reduced rate...to the point where instead of being 4 or 5 times (?) Europe it is many areas on a par with or up to 1.5 or 2 times... still not great, but not the kind of killing fields we have the rep for.

The metros are the problem....well, unless you are Navaho, living on the res..... 18.8 per 100,000 !!!  Yikes!  What is going on there??

[Conan71]

I am more and more with you on whether to even do this or not - mostly based on past history of Texas and Ohio putting innocent people to death - especially in Texas when it has been conclusively shown that the person could have had nothing to do with the crime way before the execution event.  Even redder than OK.... dipsticks.

As for studies - well, maybe.  Any study looking at a state by state comparison is not looking at the real data.  It is a metro by metro area basis that counts.  If you take out the top 15 or 20 murder metros, the entire rest of the nation - even the high murder rate states - have a massively reduced rate...to the point where instead of being 4 or 5 times (?) Europe it is many areas on a par with or up to 1.5 or 2 times... still not great, but not the kind of killing fields we have the rep for.

The metros are the problem....well, unless you are Navaho, living on the res..... 18.8 per 100,000 !!!  Yikes!  What is going on there??

State-by-state is quite relevant considering it is state law, not local law that sets capital punishment.  I don’t really see relevance between a state having the death penalty and murder rates.  I don’t believe the death penalty makes people murder.

At any rate, reading the comments from the mouth-breathers, it’s obvious people don’t understand the difference between retribution and justice. 

[DolfanBob]

New revelations are coming out. He refused to come out of his cell and they tased him. I guess to the point that his right arm could not be used for the injection. They chose to administer the drug through his groin. I wonder if that is the vain they are saying collapsed?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/report-killer-clayton-lockett-shocked-with-taser-had-self-inflicted/article_779a0698-d161-11e3-89c4-0017a43b2370.html?_dc=782735315850.0045

[heironymouspasparagus]

State-by-state is quite relevant considering it is state law, not local law that sets capital punishment.  I don’t really see relevance between a state having the death penalty and murder rates.  I don’t believe the death penalty makes people murder.

At any rate, reading the comments from the mouth-breathers, it’s obvious people don’t understand the difference between retribution and justice. 

I was actually talking about the murder rates, separate from death penalty - the transition right after TX comments wasn't clear.  States really don't have much of a murder rate, comparatively speaking - it's all concentrated in a few select metro areas... we just "keep score" on the state wide basis.

[Conan71]

Here’s the letter Robert Patton of the DOC sent to the Guv regarding the events that happened that day:

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/30/730fc99c-d160-11e3-81b1-0017a43b2370/536295f37cbe3.pdf.pdf

[swake]

Here’s the letter Robert Patton of the DOC sent to the Guv regarding the events that happened that day:

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/30/730fc99c-d160-11e3-81b1-0017a43b2370/536295f37cbe3.pdf.pdf

1655-1710 Offender Lockett visits with mental health personnel.

That used to my father’s job. He was the Psychologist at Big Mac for a number of years. He talked with the inmate, tried to calm them and got instructions on what to do with the inmates belongings like his shoes, toothbrush  and dirty clothes.

[heironymouspasparagus]

So it really wasn't botched at all - he fought and thrashed the whole time, even to the point of hurting/cutting himself....


Can't say I blame him, but the corrections people need better strap/restraint skills.  I would be kicking and screaming the whole time.

[sauerkraut]

Turns out the guy did not drink water for 48 hours and that affected the drugs, plus the dose was too low. Cap. Punishment is a good deturant if it's carried out fast and swift not with 22 years of endless appeals. If I had my way it would be 90 days or less after the jury rules and the sentence is carried out and  with DNA you know ya got the right guy. . I'm no fan of injection anyhow yes it's still better than having no death penality- but I would faver a change to hanging or the firing squad. The fastest method  with no pain is the firing squad. I wish they still would of gone on to the 2nd guy after the first- both those men did horrific murders.

[sauerkraut]

So it really wasn't botched at all - he fought and thrashed the whole time, even to the point of hurting/cutting himself....


Can't say I blame him, but the corrections people need better strap/restraint skills.  I would be kicking and screaming the whole time.

Yep he didn't wanna die- but he had no problem killing his victims, my guess is his victims wanted to live too, he took innocent lives so now he needs to give up his life. He also won't be able to kill again..  Maybe it's time for Oklahoma to use a  firing squad and do away with injection, anti-death penality people are using injection  as a back door way to ban cap. punishment. The 20 years on death row really frost me the endless appeals need to stop.

[AquaMan]

You don't read much do you?

[DolfanBob]

Apart from the horrific shock for the spectators. A Guillotine and a basket seemed to be quite effective and most likely painless. A bullet does not always kill 100% of the time. i.e. the Boston Bomber trying to shoot himself in the head.
Now if you want to go with a device like the one Anton Chigurh used in No Country for Old Men. We might have something there.
But a good ol sharp angled, stainless steel, Gillette blade dropped at the appropriate height and speed should take the guess work out of the task at hand.

[guido911]

I wonder how much of this story has been ginned up or is spin by the reporters/witnesses because of either bias or lack of comfort over watching someone put to death. For example, was this killer taking steps to defeat the death penalty meds, was he thrashing about as a means to not cooperate, did the meds cause the thrashing, did the drugs infiltrate, etc. I know I would have a hard time being unbiased given my views of the death penalty.  

[TheArtist]

Instead of spending all this time, thought, arguments and money on death penalties, "revenge justice", etc. why don't we work to create a society that doesn't have such a high crime/murder rate in the first place.  There are cities/areas in the world with populations larger than all of Oklahoma that have less murders for the entire year than just the city of Tulsa averages in a few weeks.

It's sad that we have a society that has so much crime and murder in the first place. We put all this passion into being angry at the outcomes of that society, and then after we kill the person perpetrating this horrible crime, we don't have the same passion to do what it would take to keep from having these crimes happen again and again and again. I hear people say "That person made the choice to kill someone."  Why don't we as a society make the choice to create a society having far far fewer people who would ever make that horrible choice?  Instead we kill them and go on about our business as if that's all that needed to be done. Then get all upset and in a rage once again with the next murder and the next and on the cycle goes.  Perhaps, if we weren't allowed to kill them, we might then have more of an incentive to turn our attention to creating a culture/society where so many murders wouldn't happen in the first place.

   Was reading something the dad of the boy from Germany who was studying in the US and shot dead after he walked into someones open garage, had said.  He also said something to the effect of "Why don't they work to create a low crime culture instead of a cowboy gun culture?"

[TeeDub]

Instead of spending all this time, thought, arguments and money on death penalties, "revenge justice", etc. why don't we work to create a society that doesn't have such a high crime/murder rate in the first place.  There are cities/areas in the world with populations larger than all of Oklahoma that have less murders for the entire year than just the city of Tulsa averages in a few weeks.

Maybe if we all get together and sing kum-by-yah and give the world a coke it will end wars, pestilence and famine.

I vote we bring back the guillotine...    Publicly...     Bloody, and it might just scare a few people who do things like bury people alive or rape infants into rethinking their plans.