Is The Occupy Wall Street Movement an Answer to The Tea Party Movement?

[guido911]

I don't know about you, but most of us own at least a small part of many of those corporations that are paying their executives so much, so I think it is in fact my business what they get paid. Moreover, it's a broader societal issue, in that it is (somewhat convincingly argued, but not airtight, IMO) partly responsible for the decimation of the middle class. The top has been taking a greater share of the productivity gains in the last 30 years than is the historic norm, and it began almost precisely when that reduction in (the proportion of, to the total workforce) middle class earners began.

Let's keep in mind that they're not talking about the money that the self-employed make, they're talking (in the main) about what public company C-level executives are making and the incestuous relationship between the boards of many companies and the CEOs they are supposed to be keeping an eye on.

Then let that be the OWS message because the 99 vs. 1 meme, not the 99 vs. some of the 1 is what is being advocated. The "1" are in significant numbers small business job creators, doctors, lawyers, scientists, and whomever else busted their @ss to get to where they are. Why aren't these OWS b!tching about the sweetheart deals/pork given to the likes of Murtha's, Pelosi's, and Steven's (R) constituents?

[nathanm]

Why aren't these OWS b!tching about the sweetheart deals/pork given to the likes of Murtha's, Pelosi's, and Steven's (R) constituents?

I believe that's a large part of the point of getting money out of politics. No pork from the government means no (legal or illegal) kickbacks to those in government. Not that we'll ever reach that ideal, because there is always waste and graft in any large system. The challenge is and should be to keep it to a minimum as best as we can. Flooding politics and politicians with money is not helpful to that end.

On a different note, what an utter dick move here by the police:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZLyUK0t0vQ[/youtube]

Perhaps there was cause for the initial deployment of smoke grenades (I really don't know), but tossing one into a crowd of people attempting to help an injured person? C'mon.

[guido911]

I believe that's a large part of the point of getting money out of politics. No pork from the government means no (legal or illegal) kickbacks to those in government. Not that we'll ever reach that ideal, because there is always waste and graft in any large system. The challenge is and should be to keep it to a minimum as best as we can. Flooding politics and politicians with money is not helpful to that end.

On a different note, what an utter dick move here by the police:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZLyUK0t0vQ[/youtube]

Perhaps there was cause for the initial deployment of smoke grenades (I really don't know), but tossing one into a crowd of people attempting to help an injured person? C'mon.

Meh. Not impressed with flash grenades. Try live rounds overhead and on your firing position then we can talk.

[nathanm]

Meh. Not impressed with flash grenades. Try live rounds overhead and on your firing position then we can talk.

You were being shot at by the police here in the US? 

[guido911]

You were being shot at by the police here in the US? 

No, but situational awareness is something that I was taught. If people are chucking bottles and chemicals, or if I see purple lightning/tracers in the sky, I respond just as the police did. Fact is, you and I have no clue what was going on leading up to the response by OPD.

[nathanm]

No, but situational awareness is something that I was taught. If people are chucking bottles and chemicals, or if I see purple lightning/tracers in the sky, I respond just as the police did. Fact is, you and I have no clue what was going on leading up to the response by OPD.

Which is why I deferred judgement on what happened prior to the video, including the guy getting hit in the face with the canister. For all I know, he jumped in the way. (I doubt it, given that he had the same training as you, but it's possible)

As I previously noted, my issue with that video is that they felt the need to disperse the people assembling to help the injured person.

Not that I like seeing videos of my own country looking like Egypt or wherever else this spring.

[guido911]

Which is why I deferred judgement on what happened prior to the video, including the guy getting hit in the face with the canister. For all I know, he jumped in the way. (I doubt it, given that he had the same training as you, but it's possible)

As I previously noted, my issue with that video is that they felt the need to disperse the people assembling to help the injured person.

Not that I like seeing videos of my own country looking like Egypt or wherever else this spring.

You deferred judgement?

[nathanm]

You deferred judgement?

Until I have more information, I cannot form an opinion on what happened before the video began. Good thing, too, because if it turns out like I suspect it may have, I'd pop an effin' vein and stroke out over a US Marine getting shot in the head with a tear gas canister while exercising the very Constitutional rights he put his life on the line to protect.

[Conan71]

Fact is, it is none of my damned business how much my neighbor or anyone else makes.

One of the best lessons my parents ever taught me.  Well, aside from self-reliance and manners in general.  Too bad more people didn't instill that in their kids.

[patric]

Until I have more information, I cannot form an opinion on what happened before the video began. Good thing, too, because if it turns out like I suspect it may have, I'd pop an effin' vein and stroke out over a US Marine getting shot in the head with a tear gas canister while exercising the very Constitutional rights he put his life on the line to protect.

One of Guido's links indicated the rocks and stones were a response to a previous attack.  The police then used the response to justify further brutality.

...and that Marine vet is still in critical condition from being shot in the face with a "less lethal" round.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/oct/27/occupy-oakland-police-live?CMP=NECNETTXT8187

Iraq vet shot in face by Oakland police
http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=90121&sitesection=ap&VID=23542128

[Gaspar]

Great example of why these people are in the very economic situations that they are upset about.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/10/in_downtown_portland_fears_tha.html

Success at anything is not a permanent state of being.  It is very similar to being physically fit.  It takes continuous effort and dedication. The OWS protesters want to be successful in their efforts, but they have put themselves into a situation that requires levels of responsibility for which they are unequipped, and in many cases opposed.

No one, and everyone has the athority to take executive action.

They have engaged in the pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

A lesson learned in the tyranny of the majority, and why we chose a representative form of government over pure democracy.

[patric]

You were being shot at by the police here in the US? 

Did it look like this?

[guido911]

Richmond Tea Party wants a refund.

RICHMOND -- The Richmond Tea Party wants its money back from the city of Richmond for the cost of permits and other fees to use the same area in which Occupy Richmond has settled for nearly the past two weeks for free.

The local branch of the Tea Party says it should be reimbursed for all the fees accrued and paid over the past three years for use of Kanawha Plaza, a city-owned square across from the Richmond Federal Reserve Bank and a few blocks from Virginia state capitol buildings.  Occupy Richmond, an affiliate with the Occupy Wall Street movement, moved into the square on October 15 and has not been charged a bill from the city.

http://wmal.com/Article.asp?id=2320795

[dbacks fan]

Sounds like they are having financial issues just like the people they are protesting.

The "registered agent" for the incorporated body is listed as Reid Jackson of Hillsboro. LeDoux said Jackson was also on Occupy Portland's finance committee.

In a telephone interview, Jackson said she undertook the incorporation "to protect these people. ... I've tried explaining it to them, but they won't listen to me. There is someone who has infiltrated the group and is trying to capitalize on the money."

Jackson would not identify the "infiltrator," but she said that disputes over the finance committee had escalated to the point where she had received death threats.

About 500 people have been camping in Chapman and Lownsdale squares since Oct. 6 as part of a global movement to protest the loss of jobs in the United States, corporate money in politics and unfair banking practices.

While camping in city parks is illegal, Portland's government, which is in sympathy with the protest, has permitted Occupy Portland to stay put.

LeDoux said Occupy Portland's organizers believe that "between $10,000 and $20,000" has disappeared from the protest's control. LeDoux said a finance committee member linked his PayPal account to occupypdx.org for donations.

LeDoux said the General Assembly had repeatedly asked the finance committee, of eight to 10 members, to provide an accounting of the money coming it, but the finance committee never did so.

[Conan71]

And what was it, exactly, that they needed donations for?  They are basically living like homeless bums and I wasn't aware Paypal donation accounts were in vogue amongst hobos these days.