Is The Occupy Wall Street Movement an Answer to The Tea Party Movement?

[carltonplace]

I noticed something else that distinguishes the OWS from the TPM:
The TPM while they dispise government are very cagey but adept at politics. They immediately found a party affilitation as a faction to the slight right of the GOP and found representatives to place in government roles.

The OWS group is ok with government (but feel let down by the administration and wall street collusion) but they are terrible at politics. Their message is muddy and no party is wooing them. You'd think some of these kids would be polisci's.

[RecycleMichael]

Why all the fuss about Octupi on Wall Street? You can find it in restaurants here in Tulsa.

[Gaspar]

I noticed something else that distinguishes the OWS from the TPM:
The TPM while they dispise government are very cagey but adept at politics. They immediately found a party affilitation as a faction to the slight right of the GOP and found representatives to place in government roles.

The OWS group is ok with government (but feel let down by the administration and wall street collusion) but they are terrible at politics. Their message is muddy and no party is wooing them. You'd think some of these kids would be polisci's.

Early in the Tea Party movement, there was much debate about creating a third party, but it was agreed that rather than fracture the Republican party and guarantee the re-election of President Obama, it would be wiser to work within the existing conservative movement in the Republican party and simply change the politics of that party at the ballet box. This saved them from the same fate that OWS will incur.

OWS lacks the discipline necessary to effect change.  Their very nature dictates that they will collapse into nothing more than a drunken party, that will then evolve into a police action.  

The major contrast is that one group contains conservative fringe, reverent to principled behavior, and the other contains the liberal fringe, reverent to ??
 

[carltonplace]

Early in the Tea Party movement, there was much debate about creating a third party, but it was agreed that rather than fracture the Republican party and guarantee the re-election of President Obama, it would be wiser to work within the existing conservative movement in the Republican party and simply change the politics of that party at the ballet box. This saved them from the same fate that OWS will incur.

OWS lacks the discipline necessary to effect change.  Their very nature dictates that they will collapse into nothing more than a drunken party, that will then evolve into a police action.  

The major contrast is that one group contains conservative fringe, reverent to principled behavior, and the other contains the liberal fringe, reverent to ??
 

I dont get why you can give credence to one set of disenfranchised Americans and dismiss the other set as whining babies

[Hoss]

I dont get why you can give credence to one set of disenfranchised Americans and dismiss the other set as whining babies

It's how Scott rolls.  You haven't figured that out by now?

[Gaspar]

I dont get why you can give credence to one set of disenfranchised Americans and dismiss the other set as whining babies

I didn't.  I give credence to both.  

OWS is simply devoid of the leadership principals necessary to effect change.  They protest for the sake of protest.  Their message is strong and resonates with much of the public but they will waste that, because they will not seize the opportunity to work within a political framework that could give them the power necessary to make changes.  There are too many anarchists involved.

[we vs us]

OWS lacks the discipline necessary to effect change.  Their very nature dictates that they will collapse into nothing more than a drunken party, that will then evolve into a police action.  

It depends very much what sort of change you mean.  Will OWS start electing and placing people in government?  Not likely any time soon.  Will they force the political dialogue back towards the center and possibly back into progressive territory?  Much more likely.  The energy seems to be increasing rather than dissipating, and it's doing so without the funding (the Koch Bros) and the organizing (Dick Armey, for instance) that the Tea Party brought in to increase its power.  I still think OWS is fragile and could collapse in on itself, but it looks to be getting stronger as it goes. 

[RecycleMichael]

 They protest for the sake of protest.    

Further proof that you don't get what they are saying. You dismiss what you don't understand.

Time will tell.

[Hoss]

I didn't.  I give credence to both.  

OWS is simply devoid of the leadership principals necessary to effect change.  They protest for the sake of protest.  Their message is strong and resonates with much of the public but they will waste that, because they will not seize the opportunity to work within a political framework that could give them the power necessary to make changes.  There are too many anarchists involved.

And you don't think that many of the people who have 'attached' themselves to the TPM don't do the same (protest for the sake of it)?  It's just in this instance, the TPM is bankrolled by the Koch brothers.  The OWS from what I understand started truly as people movement.

I'm not saying I don't identify or understand what the TPM is about.  But I would think two thirds or more of those people who would say that they align themselves with the TPM don't understand it either.  It smacks of Lonesome Rhodes.

[Cats Cats Cats]

That's it?

In 1979 Ford initiated a recall that cost the company $20 million dollars, but before that, Mother Jones published articles showing that Ford conducted cost analysis against human life.  A legacy that will haunt the automaker for ever, and remains a case study in ethics.

Imagine how much more wealth Lee Iacocca and Ford could have created if greed had not taken control.  Instead, he was fired from Ford because of the Pinto debacle, as was many on his team of advisers.

You have provided an excellent example of what happens when greed is present.

Ford recalled in 1978, their stock price outperformed the DJIA until September of 1979.  Which other car companies followed the same path.  Not just Ford (because of the Pinto).  It followed the DJIA from about 1984 until about 1999.  I am not so sure its the Pinto that is their problem.  Oh, they made 2 billion dollars profit the year that Iacocca was fired.  It is difficult to compare Fords stock to other companies because most of the other US car companies filed for bankruptcy and reissued stock.

[we vs us]

In other words, this is how Obama gets primaried.

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!  Thank you!  That's the funniest thing I've seen all day.

You guys are great.  When you're not trying to minimize the impact of this protest you try to draw false equivalency between Occupy Wallstreet and the Tea Partiers. The worst outcome on the left is that the kids are turned off by politics and stay home on election day.  On the right, it's far more likely that the TP brigade will have to hold their noses and vote for Romney...or just stay home.

Here's what I meant:  Obama will not get a huge amount of flack during the 2012 election season from the Democratic power structure.  They've already come together behind him and are pumping money into his re-election campaign.  There will be no real way for any part of the dissatisfied left to register their dissatisfaction.  Something like OWS -- which consists of those unhappy folks, and who also happen to be a good chunk of the kids Obama himself helped politically mobilize in 2008 -- is going to organically register that dissatisfaction.  Long way of saying -- it's Obama's own people who are finally trying to push him back to the center (or slightly left).

[carltonplace]

it's Obama's own people who are finally trying to push him back to the center (or slightly left).

very astute

[Gaspar]

Further proof that you don't get what they are saying. You dismiss what you don't understand.

Time will tell.

You are probably very correct there.  In most of the interviews they all say different things.

[Gaspar]

Ford recalled in 1978, their stock price outperformed the DJIA until September of 1979.  Which other car companies followed the same path.  Not just Ford (because of the Pinto).  It followed the DJIA from about 1984 until about 1999.  I am not so sure its the Pinto that is their problem.  Oh, they made 2 billion dollars profit the year that Iacocca was fired.  It is difficult to compare Fords stock to other companies because most of the other US car companies filed for bankruptcy and reissued stock.

Not sure where you are/were going with that. 

[Cats Cats Cats]

Not sure where you are/were going with that. 

I can't accurately tell the effects of the Pinto on Ford's valuation compared to other companies in the sector to determine that the Pinto did indeed make them underperform.  One would think it hurt them but it is difficult to determine how much.  I mean a year after they recalled the Pinto Chrysler went bankrupt.  So was that weakness in the car market that made Ford drop or the Pinto.