The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

Thirty years ago Tulsa was the largest US City without a public bachelor-degree-granting institution.  The timing of this realization corresponded well with an urban renewal trend (and federal cash), so a bulldozed neighborhood was given to University Center at Tulsa (UCAT) to turn into a comprehensive 4 year University.  It was going to be a joint offering of Langston OU, OSU and NSU, but currently it is pretty much a branch of Oklahoma State instead of a stand-alone hi-bred University (and there is a debate whether that was for better or worse).  But there are many acres of land that were cleared, remain empty and without a scheduled plan 30 years later.

Apparently the City took note during the Vision process and started asking questions.  The TDA (fka Tulsa Urban Renewal Authority) feels like something should be done with the land, OSU-Tulsa (fka UCAT) is arguing that building one new structure each decade is good enough because all development after phase 1 is subject to funding.    They created a map to show how they might grow the campus:

(https://www.readfrontier.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/OSU-PLAN-2016-04-25-at-4.24.15-PM.png)

The TDA started making noise the last few years - essentially that UCAT needs to use it or lose it in regards to the land and that 30 years was long enough.  It  appears the conflict is centered on 8 blocks of land directly north of the Brady District.  UCAT has filed a lawsuit in Tulsa County to settle the matter, arguing that the deal doesn't specify a time limit for most of the development because it was subject to funding, so they can take as much time as needed so as long as they are making progress.

The TDA wants to see the land used.  UCAT can't afford to give away assets.

Clearly, huge implications for development and OSU-Tulsa.  I think we are better off if the land is either developed OR used to grow OSU Tulsa.  But sitting there doing nothing cannot be good for anyone.  My suggested compromise: OSU-Tulsa sells/leases/or otherwise makes the land available for development, brokered by the TDA, and uses the funds to grow higher education in Tulsa.  Land isn't in short supply for OSU-Tulsa, even if they gave up the 8 blocks in question they have acres to build on.  But apparently funding to grow the campus IS in short supply.

Win Win!  So basically, zero chance of that working out.   ;)


- - - -

The lawsuit, linked below, includes many interesting attachments.  Exhibit B the original master plan as envisioned for the campus (800k feet) and "urban renewal" for the area (go look, and go OOooo and Awwwww then remember it never happened).  It mentions a mixed-use lease-back development proposal from Ross Group in 2015 for the unused land (no details given). The suit discusses all kinds of other interesting ideas that haven't come to fruition (like taking more land in the area by Eminent Domain).  It also includes the original UCAT development agreement as Exhibit A.  Worth breezing through Petition (click the link, download the petition).
http://www.oscn.net/dockets/GetCaseInformation.aspx?db=tulsa&number=CV-2018-127


Big Changes Could be Coming to OSU-Tulsa, Langston campus N. of Downtown.  April. 28, 2016.
https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/the-university-center-at-tulsa-was-created-30-years-ago/

Tulsa Development Authority wants undeveloped UCAT property to revert to city
http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/tulsa-development-authority-wants-undeveloped-ucat-property-to-revert-to/article_26d8abec-eed1-5141-a0fb-37e663e86058.html

Attempted Land Grab Hurts City's Higher Ed Future - by the President of OSU-Tulsa and General Manager of UCAT
http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/opinionfeatured/howard-barnett-jr-attempted-tda-land-grab-hurts-the-city/article_2fbfac27-3207-5613-ba0b-8a9f0daaea3a.html

Steps to Nowhere, Michael Bates, This Land Press
http://thislandpress.com/2014/06/18/steps-to-nowhere/

What I think should happen:
1. OSU/UCAT should only keep the land west of MLK if they put together a plan to build dense student housing south of John Hope Franklin.  Otherwise it gets transferred unless at least a Phase 1 is built within 5 years.  
2. Keep all OSU and Langston academic and research functions east of MLK.  Update the campus master plan to consolidate parking into garages and build on the existing lots.
3. Move the "OSU Technology Park" to the south next to where the existing ARTC is located (on the parking lots directly east of Elgin).  This creates a synergy with future private development across the highway.  
4. Use that land along MLK for additional THA mixed-income housing development.  Tear down Sunset Plaza apartments.
5. Create a park space on the hillside from MLK to Greenwood with housing on top of the hill and the campus at the bottom.
6. Sell the land north of John Hope Franklin and west of MLK for private residential development to connect with Brady Heights

Such great potential.  Such horrible utilization/implementation.  It all goes to the failure of the Oklahoma Legislature and the State Board of Regents.  Again.  As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be...Oklahoma Fail...Amen...Amen...!

We probably still are the largest city without a comprehensive, public 4 year university...since we don't have that now, either.  We have OSU branch office...

....and an OU branch office, a Langston branch office, a NSU branch office and Rogers State (if you go with metro area.)

While it might be nice to have a real 4 year college here, does it really matter if you go to TCC for free*, then get your 4 year from any of the above?

* Per the website...   Through Tulsa Achieves, full tuition and fees are provided for every high school senior, public or private, who graduates with a 2.0 grade point average and commits to begin college the fall following their senior year.    *Caveat also says "living in Tulsa County"

The part on that map that shows a future OSU library is one of my favorite spots in Tulsa.

You can access the hill from the north on a deteriorated driveway that goes up to a view of downtown that is great.

I shot this TV commercial there last summer...
https://www.ozonealert.com/videos.htm

I presume you really mean to say that Tulsa was the largest US metro area without a public bachelor-degree-granting institution (because, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Tulsa is even the largest city in the State of Oklahoma without a public bachelor-degree-granting institution) and I'm pretty sure there are other larger cities in the same boat.  As to metro areas, while it may have been true 30 years ago, we are any longer without a public bachelor-degree-granting institution. We now have Rogers State in Claremore.

I don't argue with OSU Tulsa - I am an Aggie - but it isn't a Tulsa 4 yr university.   Still much better than I ever expected from this state.

Rogers State isn't a comprehensive 4 yr university.  That was the original complaint by NE Oklahomans.  We ended up getting a hodge-podge of places putting programs together - and that isn't bad...it is working fairly well for many if not most.   It's not what it should have been, though.

OSU-Tulsa should be governed like UW-Milwaukee, as an independent urban extension of the OSU system.  From UW-Milwaukee's Wiki page:

To expand, Rogers State only recently became a four year school. It previously served as a junior college of sorts.

However, a closer option (BA) is Northeastern State. A much more reputable school, with a very impressive satellite campus. It is actually comical how much more impressive it is than the downtown OSU campus.

I actually had the pleasure of taking one course @ NSU-BA and was thoroughly impressed with the quality considering it wasn't their main campus. Satellite campus often feel like a second tier option. Rogers State Main campus feels like a 5th tier. And their Bartlesville campus feels like day care. (I will admit that results may have changed as my "samples" are getting dated-nearly 10 years old at this point).

If TCC is going to handle the first two years, OSU-Tulsa (and the others) should at least be able to increase their offerings of degrees and graduate programs.  I looked recently and it's pretty limited what degree you can actually obtain from OSU-Tulsa, and specifically graduate degrees.  I agree with the Tulsa World editorial.  I don't really care who is right legally, the land needs to be put to better use sooner rather than later.  The TDA can develop some of the parcels on the western side of the tract and OSU would still have tons of room for expansion.

I did not research the truth of the matter asserted, I was repeating what the President of OSU Tulsa/UCAT said in his Tulsa World Article:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/opinionfeatured/howard-barnett-jr-attempted-tda-land-grab-hurts-the-city/article_2fbfac27-3207-5613-ba0b-8a9f0daaea3a.html

As far as my opinion on the resulting many Universities,  I think it is inferior to the single large four year residential University planned.  Without disparaging the education of the institutions we do have, the result for Tulsa is not the same as having UCO and OU attached to OKC metro, or UNT, UT Dallas, UT Arlington, and UT Commerce in the MetroPlex. 

Large contiguous residential campuses bring together assets that regional commuter campuses do not.  Not only synergy in education, brand recognition, and campus life - but huge advantages for the metro.  Having Universities associated with your metro area improves the impression of your metro; few in the state hear OU, OSU, Rogers State, NSU and thinks TULSA--- let alone regionally or nationwide.  The impression of having higher education in your town is important.

There is also an obvious economic advantage.  People migrate to go to residential 4 year colleges.  They move from the rural areas to the city, from out of state, or even from out of the country.  A certain number of those newly educated people will stay and either be drawn into the labor force or start companies, others will leave with a favorable impression of the metro and spread the word.   Scholars, athletes, and tourists visiting campus raise awareness of what you have to offer.  And, of course, having 25,000 college students living right outside downtown Tulsa would be an economic boom for the area.

As it stands, we have education options that suffice for many area residents, that's good for the metro and good for the residents.  But it lacks the impact that a single larger University would have had. When large companies talk about relocating to a community with higher ed so they can partner for programs or recruit students, they often have an image of a well known flagship school, not 6 separate institutions to try and work with (NSU, RSU, OSU, OU, TCC, Langston).  When people think about a metro area with great higher education, it almost always includes one large flagship school.  When people move somewhere to go to college, it is most often for a residential campus.

Plus, most of these campuses are not a priority.  Look at what OSU-Tulsa has said - they lack the funding to build more than one building a decade in Tulsa, and wasn't the last significant academic building funded by a Tulsa bond vote anyway?  Meanwhile, in Stillwater, they are currently working on a new business building, dining center, human sciences building, engineering lab, performing center and parking garage (to say nothing of athletic facilities).  Both NSU-BA (3500 students)and OSU-Tulsa (2300) focus on juniors & seniors, as well as adult education. Langston is a satellite campus offering 9 undergrad degrees and a few masters in one building. OU-Tulsa has an interesting mix of programs and a growing campus, but only 1600 kids.  RSU has ~3k kids in Claremore and only offers a single graduate program (Masters in BA). 

That's a far cry from the promise of a full service university with 25k students and a residential campus.


(again, this isn't to say the quality of education can't be there, just that the impact on the city isn't the same IMO)

http://www.langston.edu/tulsa
http://www.ou.edu/content/tulsa/about.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_State_University
https://www.nsuok.edu/brokenarrow.aspx
http://tulsa.okstate.edu/about

I'd like to see a Tulsa mayor run with this issue as the #1 priority.  Sadly it hasn't been a big enough issue for city leaders to try and change the status quo. 

I just don't see the state ponying up astronomical amounts of money to build another campus when it appears the two majors they have are doing just fine with one location.

And I also don't see the two major private U's expanding dramatically, or even less likely a new entrant all together.

Cannon's post almost perfectly encapsulates the issue, and I agree with it completely.  But I think you are right, particularly with the current political climate, I cannot see a new major public university happening in Tulsa.  (But the spot is perfect for it...)

But still,  the "University of Northern Oklahoma" (UNO!  We're Number One!) in Tulsa would be pretty cool.

(http://www.noc.edu/Websites/northok/images/BRANDING/NOC-tagline-left-justify-rgb.jpg)

Unfortunately, it's not up to city government other than lobbying a stodgy state regents board who has no interest in awarding something like this to Tulsa.  It's just like how OKC generally is favored over Tulsa when it comes to spreading state government money around.

I don’t know that an entirely new school is needed, or really any more money. We just need a reorganization of existing programs and buildings.

OSU-Tulsa should be its own stand-alone four year university and can be easily created by OSU-Tulsa taking over TCC downtown, Langston Tulsa and the OSU Health Sciences Center. The school certainly can remain under the OSU regents and still be part of the OSU college system. Overnight you would have a cohesive downtown research university with 10-12,000 students with a great ability to grow.

Similarly NSU-Broken Arrow should take over TCC Southeast, which ALSO should become a four year+ standalone university with a combined 6-8,000 students

TCC would retain its other campuses and remain a much smaller community college. The Tulsa area would have a balanced group of public colleges with a full four year PHD granting university with a medical school downtown and four year directional schools on the north side (RSU) and  southside (NSU) and then a community college with scattered campuses in Owasso, north Tulsa, midtown Tulsa, west Tulsa, Glenpool and Jenks (Riverside Airport).

This is a solid plan but would take some wrestling with TCC to make it happen.  You could honestly keep TCC in its current form but reorganize OSU and OU into more stand-alone entities that operate as their own institutions under the OU/OSU system umbrella.  They do this in many other states, see the UW-Milwaukee example I already gave and also in Colorado where CU-Denver is the urban research affiliate of CU-Boulder and the health science center is its own campus as well.  

For OSU they would have the following:
- flagship campus (Stillwater)
- urban/research campus (OSU-Tulsa)
- health sciences center (part of OSU-Tulsa)
- vocational campuses (OSU-OKC and OSU-Okmulgee)

For OU they would have the following:
- flagship campus and research park (Norman)
- urban campus (OU-Tulsa)
- health sciences center (OKC)
- school of community medicine (part of OU-Tulsa j/v with TU)

OSU would cover downtown, OU would have midtown and NSU south Tulsa/Broken Arrow.  I absolutely think TCC and Tulsa Tech should merge into one entity however.

And before that it was Oklahoma Military Academy.   My friends and I were all threatened with being sent there if we didn't clean up our act...kind of like being threatened with reform school...

I took a couple courses at OSU Tulsa in the deep, dark, past.  Good place.  Wish they offered an in-house PhD - without having to do all the BOB travel...would try to get that.

Oklahoma Northern... there is a nice 'ring' to both those... 


Won't ever get one here since we are still in the process of "gutting" education in this state.  Every single one of the Republicontin Clown Show candidates is blathering about cutting out waste or "making turnpikes free again"...   Well they have cut out more meat than all the waste ever combined. 

And geez, Richardson, are you really that stupid about your own state to actually think turnpikes were ever free to begin with??  There is no hope....we are lost....


To paraphrase; we in Oklahoma offer the cure for hope, and for ridiculously trumped up prices....

www.despair.com


Pyramid poster is one of my favorites....

Yeah, but it's all in the name.   "Northern Oklahoma College" is not "University of Northern Oklahoma!" (Sidebar. While I was ideating on this, I was really irritated that NSU used green as their primary color.  The school UNO tagline was going to be "This Is Green Country!"  Which was a perfect fit, but alas...)

If anyone doesn't think that the name means a lot, ask North Texas.  They tried to get "Texas State" back in the 90's.  The university was growing and the football team was improving, and as no university with "a direction" in the name has ever won a National Championship, they wanted the Texas State name, and of course the general prestige.  With the proximity to the Metroplex, that would have been a major threat to UT, TAMU, and TT, and so the political shenanigans started.  Eventually leading to Southwest Texas State (a very non-threatening school in San Marcos) getting the name.   

Everyone knows which airport you are mentioning but it is actually in Tulsa, not Jenks.

Let's be honest...   The real push back will be the board of reagents from all the above universities.

No one wants to give up their piggy bank.    There is a lot of money in education and a large loss (look at how much OU/OSU recently spent on mandatory University housing for incoming freshmen.)   Diverting that money to a new university that will most likely be primarily a commuter campus is a big money looser.


OSU makes as almost as much in room and board as they do on tuition and fees.  (Oklahoma resident)
Tuition and Fees     $9,520
Room and Board            $8,840

OU is roughly $10k
Double: $4,714/semester; $9,428/year
Double: $5,294/semester; $10,588/year

NSU is $6860  (Not sure if this includes meals.)

That is a lot of captive money to give up!


https://admissions.okstate.edu/cost-aid/paying-college.html
http://www.ou.edu/housingandfood/residence_halls/rates.html
https://www.nsuok.edu/FutureStudents/CostCalculator.aspx

Yes, the main entities that are keeping Tulsa from having a real public university aren’t people at all. They are the entities of OU, OSU, TCC and Langston. It’s not the money that the state spends at issue, it’s the political will to remind those entities that they exist to serve the people, not the other way around, and sometimes to meet the needs of the people, those entities are going to have to give up some power.

No reason they can't do the same thing with their respective Tulsa campuses, especially OSU which right now has free land next to the state's premier urban arts district to build housing. 

It does make sense for OSU to build some housing on their Tulsa campus.  It would facilitate students who want to live in a bigger city but still attend OSU.  They already have the BOB (big orange bus:  https://www.osu-tulsa.okstate.edu/bob/ (https://www.osu-tulsa.okstate.edu/bob/)) that runs between the two campuses, for those students that need to take Stillwater classes. 

Apparently they are having trouble filling the housing they have available in Stillwater..   Why would they voluntarily lose more money?


http://www.ocolly.com/news/student-housing-boom-puts-pressure-on-landlords-osu/article_ac368ba4-22f5-11e7-8080-3b2914635a61.html

Stillwater, like Norman, has an over-saturated student apartment market.  Tulsa doesn't currently have any kind of student housing at either OU or OSU.

They could offer housing to TCC students too who want to move out of their parents house but not to Norman or Stillwater.  Offer a shuttle to the downtown campus (or they could bike), maybe also shuttle to other campuses maybe if there's demand.  Maybe a small fee to cover costs.  If we're going to settle into the TCC then OSU/OU/Langston-Tulsa model, might as well go all in and connect them as much as possible.

They have those...  They are called apartments.   Student loans pay for housing whether it be on or off campus.

Most all the advisors at OSU/NSU (my only personal experience) tell you what classes to take at TCC before finishing out your degree with them....   So they do try to work together somewhat.

And "surprisingly" (sarc) the off campus variety always manage to offer a better price point, or better options in general than campus housing. It's as if private developers are more likely to meat the demand of potential buyers better than a giant bureaucracy or something.

I know it's not exactly the same, but a decade or so ago Rogers State acquired a (historically significant) building in downtown Bartlesville in order to expand their campus. I think expectations were quite high this would bring some sort of economic development to the area but as far as I can tell that hasn't really panned out. And outside of the replacement of windows for that building (which I'm sure wasn't cheap) I haven't really noticed a difference in the building itself either. But last I heard, roughly 500-600 students utilize the "campus". With the close proximity to ConocoPhillips (a major employer) and the big push for the nursing program it seemed like they had some ties that could make it work. But for the most part it seems to be utilized be local high school students who are concurrently enrolled and nursing students who work elsewhere. I'm sure it's different than OSU in many MANY regards, but both were downtown campus that had great hopes of turning the areas around, to no avail.

A commuter campus doesn't add to it's surroundings the same way a residential campus does. It doesn't even have the same kind of students in most cases.

Less drug use and higher attendance from what I can tell.    (Sorry, seemed funny at the time.)

Kids with munchies tend to go in search of nearby snacks.

Parents taking night classes tend to want to go home, which is miles from the school.

I was going to reply to the other thread but figured this was a better place to keep this discussion.  I found an O'Colly (OSU student newspaper) article from October 2016 about how to reverse declining enrollment at OSU-Tulsa with some interesting quotes:




Some of my thoughts:
1. If OSU doesn't want (or need) to have 20,000 students then they absolutely do not need the land west of MLK and north of 244, and it should be redeveloped into mixed-use/housing.  This is vacant land just sitting next to one of the most vibrant urban districts in the region, and there is now demand to develop it.

2. The law that hamstrings OU and OSU because of Langston needs to be changed.  There is no reason for that school to hold the city hostage like it is currently doing.  I'd like to see city leaders and Tulsa's elected state reps take on this issue.

3. OSU should recreate the master plan that they did back in the late 90's but with a more realistic goal of maybe 5,000 students (which is more than TU) and filling in the gaps around the existing campus north of 244 and east of MLK.  

4. I agree with Jim Halligan that biomedical engineering and healthcare are key programs for the future.  These programs would make more sense though to be part of the OSU Health Sciences Center which already has its own campus by the river, along with the OSU hospital downtown.  I'd like to see OSU continue to build up its medical school and health sciences programs, and let the Greenwood campus focus on programs like engineering, education, business and technology.

5. I'd like to see OSU do more research activity in Tulsa.  Maybe a second ATRC on the other side of Elgin?  Maybe a research building on the other side of 244 (old warehouses by the Gypsy coffeehouse).  I used to say the Evans Fintube would be perfect for this but I guess it's going to be a BMX facility.

http://www.ocolly.com/news/osu-taking-measures-to-improve-tulsa-campus/article_fb35928a-93ea-11e6-be1b-776729da446f.html (http://www.ocolly.com/news/osu-taking-measures-to-improve-tulsa-campus/article_fb35928a-93ea-11e6-be1b-776729da446f.html)

We got a "4 yr university - not" just to get people to shut up about it.  At one time there was a lot of irritation due to Tulsa being left out of such an important segment of the education market.  Since that time, every step of the way, it has been an unwanted step-child to the state and has been left to wither and die.   2,400 students??  Ridiculous.  Tulsa alone could support at least a 10,000 student university, and would more likely be 20-25k if it were made into a real university.

Complacency and malicious intent reigns supreme on this as well as so many other facets of Okrahoma life!

The Langston restriction is not a major impediment because Langston-Tulsa offers so few majors. The TCC restriction barring any first or second year courses makes it impossible for OSU-Tulsa to be a school you can attend for all four years and defeats any real effort to create a campus culture with dorms.

OSU-Tulsa could be a 20,000 person university if it could offer the same courses, dorms, lifestyle as OU and OSU.

Don't ask why this is on a geological map, but...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Map_Cities_Oklahoma_Public_universities_JPEG.jpg)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_universities_in_Oklahoma

Is NEO Broken Arrow a 4-year degree granting university?

Either way, it seems reasonable to conclude that the OSU-Tulsa experiment has failed to solve the problem.  Either through structural design defects or execution by the OSU board of regents, stalling at 2,400 students and the limited course/degree offerings does not give Tulsa anything near the true public university a city our size needs.

Exactly, now it's time to come up with a solution and get the appropriate backing from city and state leaders.  GT Bynum has been silent on this issue.

I’ve never fully understood how Tulsa’s higher ed options got so wrapped up with a historical black college located in a city 70+ miles from Tulsa.  If I recall correctly, the Langston component in this (going back to the old UCAT) is based on some court decree related to desegregation.  It would be nice if we had state leaders that made public higher ed in Tulsa a priority, but the past 3 governors (both Democrat and Republican) have shown little interest in anything Tulsa except our votes around election time.

Kevin Stitt is from Tulsa and made the Republican runoff for Governor.    :-\

That ain't a good thing.   Cornett would be better than him.  Edmondson better than Cornett.

Yea, but he scares the ever living Trump out of me.

A good comparison and role model for OSU should be the University of Nebraska system.  They have the main campus in Lincoln but have the urban campus in Omaha with 15k+ students as well as the medical school and health sciences center. 

(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/omaha.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/2b/a2b5d2be-5683-11e5-9c1a-675410c07d05/55ef7321e3981.image.jpg)

And their campus in Omaha is ~ 92 acres:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/University+of+Nebraska+Omaha/@41.2587935,-96.0126068,855m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x4dbea6a55857784f!8m2!3d41.2582497!4d-96.0107049

 I believe OSU Tulsa lays claim to 200 acres north of 244.
https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/the-university-center-at-tulsa-was-created-30-years-ago/

So it would be appropriately sized for 25,000+ students.  If there is a plan for that, I'm all for it. Publish the plan, put in action, use the land. If you're going to have 15k students, then it seems 100 acres works well enough for UN of Omaha. Sell/lease/develop the other 100 acres to fund your expansion and lets go!

Lots of changes potentially coming for Greenwood/Brady Heights.  Glad they finally realized OSU doesn't need 200 acres and can grow on its existing footprint by infilling parking lots.  I personally would love to see more brownstones like the ones by Centennial Park in the area west of MLK mixed in with single family homes that match the character of Brady Heights (front porches, alley garages, etc).

(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/022046773943/media/124088651675/small/1536329266726/enhance)


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/tda-and-ucat-authority-reach-mediation-agreement-in-land-dispute/article_c58cc35f-7944-559c-a60c-6e9e7b11571f.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/downtown/tda-and-ucat-authority-reach-mediation-agreement-in-land-dispute/article_c58cc35f-7944-559c-a60c-6e9e7b11571f.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share)

Agreed.  I have a good friend who lives in an older brownstone type apartment smack in the middle of Brady Heights.  I love that neighborhood and if there were a way I could move to it I would but currently live in a house in Clarland Acres that's paid for.  Brady Heights has character and the single family dwellings there with deep front porches are awesome.

Virginia Tech is opening a new tech and engineering-focused campus near the new Amazon HQ in Arlington.  This will be a urban campus as a counter-part to the flagship Blacksburg campus in SW Virginia.  This would be a good case study for OSU, a fellow land-grant institution, in how to approach their urban campus in Tulsa.


Sound familiar? 

Even a fraction of this would be transformative for downtown

https://www.roanoke.com/news/education/higher_education/virginia_tech/virginia-tech-to-open-billion-campus-in-northern-virginia-next/article_dc52bdeb-2efd-599b-9a54-09ce7a4ba8ea.html (https://www.roanoke.com/news/education/higher_education/virginia_tech/virginia-tech-to-open-billion-campus-in-northern-virginia-next/article_dc52bdeb-2efd-599b-9a54-09ce7a4ba8ea.html)

Interesting to hear OSU President Burns Hargis now openly talking about expanding OSU-Tulsa.  This echoes similar comments from President Gallogly at OU.  Hope this is the start of eventual expansion at both universities.  I still think there is the whole TCC and Langston issue that has to be resolved. 

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/osu-s-hargis-says-splintered-higher-education-structure-in-tulsa/article_c1e11865-68de-54dc-b764-757621c97d4e.html (https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/osu-s-hargis-says-splintered-higher-education-structure-in-tulsa/article_c1e11865-68de-54dc-b764-757621c97d4e.html)

Hope so!


But, gee...I wonder where I heard that, and how many times, over the last 49 years...since TJC/TCC opened....

Exactly, for this to move forward you'll need GT Bynum's support as well as the council and elected state reps from Tulsa.  I love the idea of a tech, engineering and research-focused OSU downtown (like the VT example I posted a few months ago), a health sciences-focused OU in Midtown and TCC filling in the gaps with undergraduate studies.  TU will continue to be Tulsa's premier university and is absolutely critical that it stays a top school and grows into a larger more influential institution.  And as much as we might deride ORU it has ~4,000 students, including many international students, and 900 employees making it one of the larger employers in south Tulsa.

TU will remain the city's (and state's) premier university, but the vast majority of its students are from other states and countries. Way back in the day, the majority were from Tulsa or at least Oklahoma, but with the way they started going for more strict academic standards, the radius of applicants naturally expanded. It seems like most are from Missouri or Texas. Great to have a good university, but most TU alumni end up moving out of state (Probably the same for OU, but not as large of a proportion).

A public university in Tulsa would likely be a bit boost for bachelor attainment rates because, initially, it would be far more Tulsans/Oklahomans going, especially those who don't have the means or desire to move to the sticks for college. Over time, as certain programs thrive, the applicants would come from much farther out. That is another benefit is bringing in outside minds who can contribute and maybe stick around. Austin Texas would not be what it was if the main UT campus would've been put in another city or even suburb as is the case for Norman/OKC. Having the campus right by downtown brings in so much to that area and students often want to stay there when they graduate. Tulsa has a pretty cool scene already. Given a full 4-year university and it could really boost the urban areas.

It almost seems too late since NSU and Langston already built new campuses. If they had struck before then OU and OSU could have combined for an IUPUI type relationship discussed in the article. But any relationship that would undermine what appear to be extensive investments by LU and NSU would likely not work. If it weren't cost prohibitive, I wish OSU could fund a high speed rail between the Stillwater and Tulsa campuses and make them a single 50,000+ student university with a 20-30 minute train ride between campuses and living options in downtown Tulsa for those who are so inclined. I know they have the Big Orange Bus but with a travel time of an hour or more is just too long for any real feeling of connectivity. High speed that could cut that in half or less would be the only way to really make them a single campus, especially since the ideal would be campus to campus with no need for cars on the other end.

I think you need to reshuffle the deck and take Langston, NSU and TCC out of it so OSU and OU can do what they want on their respective campuses. 

I think you are over-thinking the impact of NSU and Langston.   Also, while cool, a high-speed rail is way overkill for that ride.   The ride on the bus is perfect for some reading or finishing some homework, etc.  Maybe add one additional bus, and be sure there is high speed internet available on the buses, and they are good to go from an infrastructure position.  Still need to address cost.  Current bus pricing is too high for daily student commuting.  Add the Tulsa housing (to get the campus-to-campus feel you mention), and lower the bus prices, and also open up the degree programs available for Tulsa-based students, and it would be a huge success. 

Is there any way for OSU (or OU or both) to absorb TCC, award associate degrees, while ensuring that all (or most) credits are applied towards a bachelors degree if a student so chooses? Maybe TCC as a junior college could be the IUPUI in this scenario with much clearer bachelor paths at OU and OSU Tulsa campuses. It seems that TCC is always raised as a roadblock to a full 4-year public university in Tulsa. Just spitballing here, seems like we always end up in the same place with this discussion.

Honestly this shouldn't be that hard, plenty of cities have a community college system and a public satellite of the state university that co-exist.  I mentioned Omaha because it is a similarly sized city and one of our peer cities.  They have Metropolitan Community College which like TCC awards associates degrees and has multiple campuses.  They also have a University of Nebraska-Omaha (similar to our OSU or OU-Tulsa) but is its own independent university that also functions as the urban satellite campus for the flagship university in Lincoln (about the distance from Omaha as Stillwater is to Tulsa).  Except that UNO has 15k students in a variety of undergrad and graduate programs, some of which are exclusive to the Omaha campus and others offered at both campuses.  Why can Nebraska figure this out and we can't?  

TCC has OSU sponsored programs that do just that.

Probably simplicity and population concentration. Nebraska has 1 very large city and other large city pretty close by, while Oklahoma has 2 very large metros in different parts of the state which spreads out resources. I'm guessing citizens of Nebraska demanded a public university in the largest city in the state. OSU is just close enough to Tulsa to say its the equivalent of OU to OKC and Tulsa is serviced by a number of public universities as it stands (and has been serviced by TCC, TU and ORU for a long time). I don't think another 4-year university is very high up the list of wants for most Tulsans.

On this board, we likely all agree we need 4-year options for OU and OSU in Tulsa, but it isn't exactly a must-have and certainly isn't a priority for state leaders. They certainly don't want to increase education spending or spend a lot to create more competition for OU/OSU.

I think both OU and OSU would benefit from having a greater presence and more offerings in Tulsa, if some of the aforementioned barriers are removed.  10k students at each one should be attainable goal with OSU focusing more on science/technology/engineering and OU focusing more on arts and sciences/health sciences with its combined medical program with TU (OU-TU School of Community Medicine). 

If TU could get up to 6k along the 4k at ORU and 20k at TCC plus another 20k at OU and OSU, then you are talking about 50k college students in Tulsa (not including RSU in Claremore and NSU in Broken Arrow).

Will be interesting to see how ORU evolves over time.  Many of the greatest universities in the world started out as religious based, but over the generations evolved to become more "secular". 

My understanding is that it is very complicated. I've heard stories of kids being told the class will transfer to find out that it doesn't. I'm talking true synergy which may only be possible if TCC is an actual part of or branch of OU, OSU, or both.

There will always be a big need for TCC how it currently is. It is extremely cheap and extremely easy. It's a great place to learn how to study for college and figure out first hand if college is for you. For those on the edge or those looking to save a lot of cash, you can get momentum at TCC then transfer to a real university. At the same time, some classes don't prepare you well at all for university so there's a risk too (for example, all the math courses I took at TCC were borderline worthless for preparing for science disciplines at TU even though some transferred).

Some classes will not transfer, but that can be determined ahead of time and there's always a risk you'll take some classes that won't but you're still better off having gained that knowledge and experience to help with the expensive courses at a 4-year university. I hope TCC basically stays as-is. I remember they had charts for which classes transfer to which universities. Just sticking to ones that work for all 3 keeps your options open. Some classes are fun/interesting and worth it regardless of whether they transfer.

Maybe OU/OSU don't really want to compete with TCC prices which is a real risk if they offer 4-years here. Without a comprehensive residential 4-year university experience, it'll be like commuter campuses and won't have the campus lifestyle advantage that Norman and Stillwater can offer. OSU Tulsa needs to go all in to offer that and utilize the amazing real estate it has right by the Arts District.

They don't even get to contemplate competing because the legislature gave TCC a monopoly on first and second year courses. OU and OSU cannot offer them, full stop. And I remain at a loss to understand the public interest behind limiting competition in first and second year university courses in Tulsa County.

Public interest has nothing to do with it.

Don't know how it is now - been a long time since I went there - but I got along ok with an electronics associates at about 3.1 gpa.  Walked into OSU (late 70's) in EE and got 4.0 the first semester.  Granted, it was only 17 hours with 2 labs and commuting every class day from Tulsa to Stillwater, but still, did ok.  Was kinda surprised how easy Differential Equations was there compared to Calculus here.  Had a professor (Dr. Rup Kaul) at TJC who REALLY taught Calculus...it wasn't the easy ride one might expect of Calc II.   There was another instructor there named Larry something (?) who was a very good teacher, too!  Can't remember his name...  Finished up in 1.5 years at about 3.85.  Not the greatest, but was also working part time to support family.

Several classes would not transfer, so did about 12 hours of "catchup" work at TU that did transfer so could go there and get it done in one pass.  Worked out good.  Then got to come back to TU for grad school - and everyone knows how much easier that is than undergrad!   Just keep the advisor happy and it is smooth sailing!!   Why not go to TU for BS?  Well, it was expensive then, too, plus I knew I wanted to do grad work there, so didn't want two sequential degrees from same school.

I took Calc I & II at TU and they were incredibly difficult. I graduated near top of my HS which is one of the better ranked ones in the area, but it did not prepare me for TU. Somehow, I got a waiver to take Differential Equations at TCC over the summer (because it wasn't offered at TU during that time). It was a joke. It was so easy. I remember fixing a number of problems for the professor which were either written incorrectly or had incorrect answers given by him. Embarrassingly simple class that did nothing to help me at TU but gave me an easy pass and credits for a class which would've been a tremendous effort at TU.

I had an opposite experience.  After leaving TCC I walked into a junior level accounting course where they hadn't even covered the accounting cycle yet.  The languages courses were behind where I was.   Different than Calc, I know, but a very different experience comparing the two schools.

I also took Calc II at TU - one of my 'makeup' courses before grad school - about 9 yrs after first time.  Worked out well, cause I had forgotten some of the stuff I really needed later.  TU was rigorous, but was definitely 'review' due to the instructors I had before.  Others seemed to have quite a bit more trouble.   I downloaded the MIT Calc class videos last year and have been slowly going through them as refresher for some modeling I am trying to do.  Even after all this time, I still have "ah-ha" moments of enlightenment because it is coming back a lot easier than it was to learn the first time!  Maybe I don't have Alzheimer's after all - the short term memory seems to actually be working along with long term...  mostly!



 

I took at least 6 classes at TCC including economics and they were all so elementary compared to anything at TU. The entire classwork took so little time and effort to make As on. At TU, even the easiest fluff classes took some work like Political Science or Engineering Economics (those were probably the 2 easiest classes I took at TU, but still required quite a bit of studying, homework and some effort to get an A).

And on the other end of the spectrum my daughter went to TU for one semester and had a hard time getting her college to accept the hours. And they didn’t accept all of them.

That has nothing to do with how "difficult" or useful a university course is. Many colleges don't accept certain credits because they want to encourage students to take more of their own classes and discourage taking classes elsewhere.

But this is you we're talking about so you probably either misquoted her or just didn't understand the nuances of it.

No, it was about the education you get at TU, the college she's graduating from next month didn't respect the educational rigor at TU.

You were denigrating the education some get at TCC, but that's a slippery slope, because there are other schools that consider TU to be not that great either.

There is an 'ebb and flow' to educational "greatness" at even the so-called "best" of schools.  TU, TCC, OU (especially!), and OSU have all had their moments.  Back in the 80's, there was a virtual 'exodus' of an alarming number of Electrical/Electronics instructors and professors from TU going to OSU.  It hurt TU a lot...for many years!   To this day, I suspect that is at least part of the reason they have not moved forward on trying to set up a PhD program in Electrical Engineering - something that has been "worked on" since at least 1968 to my direct knowledge.


Comparison moment - I have gone back recently to "review" Calculus thru Diff Eq. to see if I can still "learn" and as a refresher for some system modeling I want to pursue.  A long term project.  Found MIT online courses and downloaded the videos and have slowly been going through them.  What I have noted in particular is that MIT is no "better" - despite their reputation - then what I have taken at TJC, and TU.  And in some ways, not as good - note the large audience in the videos.  Not much "one on one" assistance going on there.


Anyone can have access to these courses and one can even get a 'certificate' by successfully completing some set of actions that I have not investigated 'cause I don't care about that.   But if one is motivated by prestigious trappings and symbols of power and elitism, you can say you got some MIT learning and have a piece of paper to back it up!!   I just wanna be able to design some PID loops using S transforms again...

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mathematics/18-01sc-single-variable-calculus-fall-2010/

OSU needs to look at what Colorado State University is doing with their planned urban campus north of downtown Denver.  CSU is very similar to OSU in a lot of ways but sees the value of building an urban campus and research center. 




https://source.colostate.edu/csu-system-to-break-ground-on-planned-urban-campus-in-2020/ (https://source.colostate.edu/csu-system-to-break-ground-on-planned-urban-campus-in-2020/)

The latest, the city is seeking developer(s) for the empty lots west of MLK. 

https://www.newson6.com/clip/14959283/tulsa-seeks-plan-for-property-near-downtown?fbclid=IwAR1YRx3YADEiI10tfxXxDiorf3XZIMqfaSheXIr5BKRmR4A0BMYxtSP02xY (https://www.newson6.com/clip/14959283/tulsa-seeks-plan-for-property-near-downtown?fbclid=IwAR1YRx3YADEiI10tfxXxDiorf3XZIMqfaSheXIr5BKRmR4A0BMYxtSP02xY)

My dream for this area is for it to be rebuilt with a mix of single-family and urban rowhomes on the old lots north of John Hope Franklin Blvd and south of Emerson Montessori.  And higher density apartments/condos on the lots south of John Hope Franklin to I-244.  I suspect these would be very desirable as you would literally be right next to downtown and walking distance to Emerson which by TPS standards is a pretty decent elementary school.  This area also sits up higher so you would have amazing skyline views from your upstairs windows.

Huge barrier to public higher ed growth in Tulsa has been removed.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/education/osu-langston-agree-to-settlement-of-near-two-decade-long-civil-rights-dispute/article_f6e5b85c-ee1f-11ea-85c8-875b72567293.html

This is awesome. Especially in light of being turned down by Tesla in part due to our small technical and professional skills base (I realize it was mostly a pipe dream anyway). This will allow OSU to grow and really serve the Tulsa market and help us attract big businesses again.

Incidentally I recently started the MBA program at OSU. Really enjoying it so far. Would love to have had the option of doing a master's in civil engineering though, but the closest campus to Tulsa that offers those classes is Stillwater. Still a lot of gaps in engineering degree opportunities in this metro.

Great news hopefully this allows OSU to expand its Tulsa campus and offer additional programs.  I think in 10 years Greenwood will be a very different place.

Not related to OSU but OU-Tulsa wants to expand its business programs.   https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/education/ous-new-business-dean-visits-tulsa-as-school-looks-to-expand-footprint/article_7b006adc-ed45-11ea-92f8-db041258fa38.html (https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/education/ous-new-business-dean-visits-tulsa-as-school-looks-to-expand-footprint/article_7b006adc-ed45-11ea-92f8-db041258fa38.html)

Awesome News.

Seems unlikely given the Schusterman campus footprint, but maybe they would consider the south IDL for a building.  Many business schools have satellite campuses in the central business districts of metro areas.  I.e., University of Houston, University of Chicago, University of Colorado (Denver). 

Now OSU needs to be able to offer 1st and 2nd year classes in Tulsa and become a real university campus.

OU has a satellite business school focusing on its MBA program at the OUHSC in OKC so it makes sense for it to be downtown.  

I don't think many fully grasp how big of an impact this will have especially if the restriction on lower level classes is lifted.  OSU could realistically build up its Greenwood campus as a stand-alone four year university with grad and research programs along with the health sciences center.  OSU could not only be one of the biggest employers downtown but in the entire city with the cluster of undergraduate/graduate programs and housing in Greenwood, the OSU hospital which could eventually be more a medical complex with the VA, and the health sciences center and National Center for Wellness & Recovery across the river.  

OU could be in a similar situation and develop its midtown property as a residential campus which would be absolutely huge for that area especially with Promenade sucking wind next door.  I'm very interested to see how the OU/TU medical partnership will continue to grow.  

"I don't think many fully grasp how big of an impact this will have especially if the restriction on lower level classes is lifted."

Unfortunately, that restriction is harder to remove and a bigger impediment. I concur that this week's news is a big help. But the state law that forbids OSU and OU from offering 1st and 2nd year courses will have to be changed by legislation (and probably over the objection of TCC).

This is what drives me nuts. A decision on if 1st and 2nd year courses can be offered in Tulsa at OSU and OU is likely to continue to be made to protect the health and prosperity of TCC, not the education and prosperity of the community and citizens of Tulsa. Which of course TCC was created to support.

If it were up to me, TCC downtown would become part of OSU Tulsa and TCC Southeast would become part of NSU Broken Arrow. Those schools would then be intended, at two price points, to serve 4 year degree seeking students in metro Tulsa. The other TCC campuses can remain as a community college focusing on students that are seeking 2 year degree, vocational education or students that may have not been very successful in high school working their way to qualifying for a 4 year school.

I think TCC has a place in higher education in Tulsa, and is actually one of the more comprehensive community colleges in this region.  But that is definitely at the expense of OU and OSU.  They can coexist like in many other cities. 

I've always thought this too. I still think TCC should sell off the metro campus for redevelopment and then build a new campus on the OSU Tulsa campus... then it would act and feel like a four year university. You could do your first two years and then transfer to OSU while never having to switch campuses and you'd also promote better collaboration between various groups. You'd also create a much higher demand for student housing around the campus.

I think they should also do the same thing near OU Tulsa if TCC bought Promenade. Tear out the middle portion of the enclosed mall and convert the department stores into classroom space and then turn the middle portion of the mall into an outdoor lifestyle center type retail. You could also build student housing too on the surface lots and you already have several parking garages to accommodate parking for all the development. You'd then have two campuses in Tulsa that function just like a four year university in a relatively short time without the political battle of TCC versus OSU/OU.

Make the courses offered at these two locations align with what degrees are being offered at OSU/OU so the transition is seamless (which is already is pretty easy to transfer between both)

Then turn Southeast into the main TCC campus with the West and North campuses as satellite campuses. 

One of the biggest problems with Tulsa higher ed is it is so fragmented and there's no critical mass to any one campus that creates any larger economic driver around it that you see around larger schools in major cities.

I immediately dismissed your idea but the more I think about it the more i think it could work. The downtown campus would be difficult to get a fair price for in the near term (it’s on quite valuable land and is quite large but could be difficult to adapt to a new use) but perhaps as part of a 10 year plan funded by a bond initiative it could work.

I’ve long thought that Promenade should become a mixed use development tied to OU
but I couldn’t ever make the investment make sense given that OU Tulsa on its own is unlikely to have a large student population. I think integrating TCC would fix that problem. Then upgrade the Masters and Doctoral level programs at each university, avoiding overlap, and Tulsa goes from being an also ran to a major college town in maybe a decade.

Only problem is the imminent collapse of the American University system as we know it.

I've had this exact thought. It's the only practicable solution that allows TCC to remain as it's own two year institution while seamlessly incorporating into four-year degrees at OSU-T or OU-T as a student might desire. I recall TCC and OSU-T marketing their collaboration for four year degrees in Tulsa. This would just be the most logical step to make that bond closer, seamless, and appeal to those who look for higher ed when relocating to a city, which was much talked about after the Chamber's visit to Columbus, Ohio. And the SE campus has by far the most Community College feel to it and would be perfect for those who are devoted solely to a two year degree. Ideally, it would be free for anyone who has the grades in high school

I think you could easily consolidate most of TCC Metro's existing classroom, lab and office space in two or three new buildings on the OSU-Tulsa campus.  Plenty of room on the parking lots on the east and west sides.  I could see a future downtown school or similar educational institution moving into the current TCC space, especially if aided by a bond package through CoT or gifted by one of the local philanthropies.  I imagine the TCC Center of Creativity would remain in its current location.

I've thought the Center of Creativity would make a great conversion into a modern art museum and could be expanded onto the parking lot to the west. Create a Tulsa Museum of Modern Art and it be a partnership between Philbrook/Gilcrease and OSU/TCC and move the modern art collection from Philbrook there and could move some of the Gilcrease collection there that's appropriate that's in storage now. OSU/TCC could help operate the museum similar to the TU partnership with Gilcrease. Philbrook's downtown location didn't do very well because it was such a small exhibit space.

Or, turn that building into the Route 66 Museum... it's right on Route 66 and would be a much bigger destination than the smaller proposed location off Lewis.

The other buildings you could re-clad and convert them into a mix of office, hotel, and ground floor retail. Then build infill on the other parking lots with a common parking garage for the neighborhood.

Ideally, if someone like GKFF or a community group would step in and do this versus a for profit developer and use the funds from this to go back toward expanding the combined OSU/TCC campus.

I think TCC has an enrollment of 20,000. OSU has a total enrollment of 25,000 and OU has a total enrollment of 31,000. TCC is essentially the 3rd largest university in the state while only offering two years of classes. If we could manage to integrate TCC a bit better and get a higher percentage of those completing associates to go through OSU/OU in Tulsa to get bachelors we could increase the number of degrees granted in the state and city a lot.

Let's face it, there is certainly not 5,000 - 10,000 students transferring and moving to Norman or Stillwater every year after finishing their associates, so figuring out a way to get people who can't move to be able to get more advanced degrees is a win/win for everyone and isn't going to cannibalize the main campuses of OSU or OU. The kids that go to the main campus are going there for the college experience on the main campus and to be at a Big 12 school and that will never be recreated in Tulsa. Unfortunately, not everyone has that luxury to be able to do that and we're hurting the people who can't uproot themselves from Tulsa in fear it might have some minor impact to enrollment on the main campuses.

Having consolidated campuses would help create more demand for housing having closer to 7,500 to 10,000 students at both OSU Tulsa and OU Tulsa would make it feasible to build student housing and other commercial uses around the campuses compared to the current sizes.   

On the face of it, this sounds good-reasonable.   

The last sentence may be the most important.  The other idea is intriguing. 

Many of the small liberal arts schools scattered throughout the country will not survive.  Many of these schools are in small towns in the midwest and northeast.  Look at schools like St Gregory's in Shawnee that have recently closed.

Within public education the flagship universities in each state are safe even if they have to rely more on private dollars vs. state funding.  In most states the state-funded urban research universities are some of the fastest-growing, like UTSA in San Antonio, CU-Denver, UNO in Omaha, etc  This is what has been missing in Oklahoma, and where Tulsa will eventually capitalize on not only having one state-funded "satellite" university but two within city limits.  OKC has OU 20 miles away in the same metro and the OUHSC as well as OSU-OKC which is more of a trade school like OSU-Okmulgee.

Outside of the two urban centers in Oklahoma and the major college towns like Norman and Stillwater you may see consolidation in the rural state universities.  I think NSU in Tahlequah is probably safe, and possibly SWOSU in Weatherford and Cameron in Lawton.  But schools like SEOSU in Durant, ECOSU in Ada, NWOSU in Alva and especially OPSU in Goodwell probably should close with resources allocated to the flagship schools and urban schools in Tulsa.

Would like to see TU play into this space more --- expand into health big time or something.  Seems like TU is at a crossroads.  What it is vs. what it could/should be.   

TU did just start a medical school.

I agree that OU and OSU are likely to survive. I’m not sure about TU or ORU. They’re both very expensive schools without the brand cachet of Harvard or MIT or Stanford. As the most powerful brands in education (Ivy league and other top flight schools) expand their online presence and grant more and more degrees they are going to absorb more and more of the money flowing into education. It’s a classic high-low market crunch. The middle will get destroyed as the premium brands expand supply and value brands increase quality.

So, positioning OUT and OSUT to be as strong as possible is probably one of the most vital issues facing Tulsa, especially if the privates are not long for this world.

TU will be fine in the long run with their billion dollar plus endowment. ORU is another matter.

Agree TU will be fine especially if GKFF has anything to do it (which they do).  I don’t see the evangelical community letting ORU fade away but of the local schools that would be the one that I would be the most concerned about.  They have their own benefactor in David Green that will likely sustain them for awhile.

The Tulsa Development Authority issued an RFP late last year for proposals to redevelop the TDA properties north of downtown.  I never did hear about the outcome or maybe I missed it?  These are the empty lots between Boulder and MLK

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/a/2b/a2b83a7e-7ee1-5ea7-b626-09a0b8036f87/5dd85d13e5ffc.image.jpg?crop=650%2C650%2C0%2C56&resize=1200%2C1200&order=crop%2Cresize)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/119706420_1705582466259430_6793325627925477183_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=g9_WICXGxFUAX8wmAto&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=194fd0ff8725d78483afaea6f92eb1c3&oe=5FB3762A)

They appear to have chosen wrtdesign.com (http://wrtdesign.com) as consultant. It’s a design shop out of Philly. Lots of pretty pictures on their website. https://www.cityoftulsa.org/government/departments/finance/selling-to-the-city/current-bid-opportunities/rfp-20-711-kirkpatrick-heights-addition-and-greenwood-site-master-plan/
 

As for status - no news. There is a nugget buried in the May 2020 TDA General Counsel’s Report stating, “Planning for development of the Property is presently being conducted by consultants retained by the City of Tulsa. In progress.” https://www.tulsadevelopmentauthority.org//wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Litigation-Report-5-7-2020-Combined.pdf

Great news and WRT looks like the right design firm for this based on their past experience.  Hopefully whoever ends up developing these parcels can also acquire the Salvation Army property at Fairview & Main.  

I've always thought the blocks north of 244 and south of John Hope Franklin should be higher density 3-4 story apartments/condos with the blocks to the north between John Hope Franklin and Independence as 2-3 story townhomes.  Where Boulder and Main intersect at JHF there could be a cool Flatiron-style building.  Many of the existing stoops are still in place from the homes that were bulldozed during urban renewal.

Something with a similar density as this area around Centennial Park:
(https://image1.apartmentfinder.com/i2/RmD9c5VLRjqUTRfUZQBUo2RHnW04yji0XO3499oXBXA/111/the-village-flats-tulsa-ok-building-photo.jpg)

I haven't followed this very closely, but I thought a year or two back Ross Group went under some sort of agreement with TDA to help develop this area?

Some interesting news on who the new OSU President will be.. she is the former President of the medical school here in Tulsa.

https://medicine.okstate.edu/about/office-of-the-president.html

I'm glad they picked from within OSU and maybe her being in Tulsa previously running the medical school will be a good thing long term for expanding the Tulsa campus. At least I'm sure that will be very beneficial to expanding the medical school even further.

She was the one giving us the advice on corona virus last year about this time.

And now there’s commercials showing up for their participation in handling this whole thing.

Don’t you want to be part of the team?  Come to the medical school.

About 15 years ago, Langston and OSU-Tulsa were trying to expand their campuses overlapping the same real estate, all the way up to king street.  Even wiping out the Section 8 Tulsa Housing Authority area if I remember right. 

Langston finally built their own building around the corner and OSU-Tulsa built a new technology building out in the parking lot. 

This seems like a positive move for building up the OSU campus downtown.  Hopefully this leads to increased enrollment and new construction restarting on campus. 


https://ktul.com/news/local/osu-tulsa-tcc-unveil-new-partnership-college-park (https://ktul.com/news/local/osu-tulsa-tcc-unveil-new-partnership-college-park)

Looking forward to seeing their land-use plans.  This will be a great opportunity for small-scale developers to take on the different parcels.

https://tulsaworld.com/business/local/watch-now-city-officials-hire-consultant-for-kirkpatrick-heights-greenwood-master-plan/article_8eb0bf58-fc41-11eb-a630-cfe15c799869.html#tracking-source=home-top-story (https://tulsaworld.com/business/local/watch-now-city-officials-hire-consultant-for-kirkpatrick-heights-greenwood-master-plan/article_8eb0bf58-fc41-11eb-a630-cfe15c799869.html#tracking-source=home-top-story)

I'd prefer they put the land into a land trust and give it back to people who had their homes taken through eminent domain or at least figure out some sort of compensation to make up for it. Given this area was redlined for so long, seems like there's a way to try to make it right instead of just allowing developers to profit off of it. Maybe bring in a non-profit community developer to help redevelop the area in a way that's in line with what used to be there prior to UCAT bulldozing everything.

I'm hopeful that the consultants will address some of this and it not just be a bunch of pretty pictures like they did with the Arena District master plan. They really need to show some proper ways for this to be redeveloped properly with actionable items for the city to follow.

First bigger community meetings are set for this - the 28th & 30th

https://www.ourlegacytulsa.org/

Meeting details below in this link:

https://www.cityoftulsa.org/press-room/community-meetings-scheduled-for-kirkpatrick-heights-greenwood-master-plan/

Texas A&M investing over $1B in an urban research campus in downtown Ft. Worth.  This is what OSU needs to do in Greenwood

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/texas-am-university-1-billion-investment-fort-worth/287-b018939e-5517-44ee-90d0-0a5f936c2cd3 (https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/texas-am-university-1-billion-investment-fort-worth/287-b018939e-5517-44ee-90d0-0a5f936c2cd3)