|
Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: Radar on January 04, 2008, 10:00:52 am This woman apparently lives in Tulsa. If you know who she is, please contact the family. This is such a cruel thing to do. I don't know what I'd do if someone took one of my dogs. Please help if you can identify this person.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/010408dnmetstolendog.28a28e1.html Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: sgrizzle on January 04, 2008, 10:12:37 am Why does it seem like "I cannot ask for your forgiveness" really means "I suck but I want you to not hate me."
Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: inteller on January 04, 2008, 10:15:52 am quote: what a bizarre story. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: AngieB on January 04, 2008, 10:51:30 am That is twisted! I forwarded the link to my niece who is well connected in the "Pug World."
(what? You didn't know about the fellowship of the Pug?) Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: Radar on January 04, 2008, 10:56:59 am quote: That's great! I hope somebody can figure out who she is. I think she should be charged with kidnapping. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: dggriffi on January 04, 2008, 10:59:05 am bleh. A couple of DINKs lose a dog and they go ballistic. Get a hobby for god sakes.
Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: cannon_fodder on January 04, 2008, 12:02:42 pm quote: They had a hobby... a dog. Honestly, if someone took one of my dogs things would get ugly. Their big, expensive, slobbery and cause all sorts of problems (one actually ate the gas can I was using for my generator, pancakes dog?) - but so is my son. What's more, I have well over $1000 invested in my dogs for vet visits, adoption fees, collars, and so on. Never mind the time I have spent training them (never thought to train them to avoid biting gas cans) and socializing the beasts. What's more, a pug puppy starts at $350 and goes way up from there. I'd bet $500 is a low-ball average. So thanks for the $20 you low-life. quote: Well this is a great start. Steal my stereo and I'd be mad, take my boat and it's an insurance pain in the donkey, but taking my dogs is just cold. If you do this crap sober, there is probably a reason you lost everything. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: dggriffi on January 04, 2008, 12:19:14 pm If you leave your stereo in the street. Its going to get stolen. same goes for a dog. If you care so much about something that isn't human, you better take measures to protect it.
If i pick up a dog a later find out who the owner is. I may or may not go to the trouble to take it back. I would pick up the dog for its well being, not for yours. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: OkieDiva on January 04, 2008, 12:29:05 pm Dogs dig under fences... it happens, but it doesn't mean the woman is an irresponsible dog owner or that this is justified.
I'd love to hear a lawyer weigh in on this (whoa, first time I've ever said that). Wonder if woman - if ever found - could face legal action? Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: peb on January 04, 2008, 12:31:53 pm How do you spell TROLL?
peb Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: dggriffi on January 04, 2008, 12:51:52 pm I think that owners are responsible for their own animals.
She probably should have given them some way to come get the dog but they are certainly not innocent in this. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: cannon_fodder on January 04, 2008, 12:56:06 pm quote: I return dogs all the time, well, as often as it comes up. They get off of leashes, get let out by utility men, dig under fences, bolt out front doors - they are not objects and are very capable of moving themselves. I built a new fence specifically for my then dog (now dogs). The gates latch and have an outside latch requiring dexterity to remove. They have never dug out. But that doesn't mean they wont or some meter reader will not let them run off by mistake. Or, for that matter, some asshat just deciding to steal them (both muts, don't bother). What's more, even IF I leave something out - stealing it is still a crappy thing to do. Especially when the object is not replaceable and of little monetary value (my mutts). If you pick up a dog and find out who the owner is, and it is NOT abused, keeping it is both a horrible thing to do and legally speaking - conversion. Unless you know the dog has been abandoned you are taking the property of another: Criminally it is simple misdemeanor larceny, and civilly is is conversion. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: Radar on January 04, 2008, 12:58:35 pm Or just plain evil.
Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: dggriffi on January 04, 2008, 03:38:39 pm evil maybe, illegal no. Found cash is one thing. Chattel is another.
Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: cannon_fodder on January 04, 2008, 04:25:14 pm WRONG
quote: Larceny of Lost Property, 21 Okla. Stat. § 1702, available at http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=70060 (last visited on 01/04/2008). I would venture to guess that the collar and address as well as the forthcoming correspondence would indicate that this woman had "knowledge... as to the true owner" of said chattel. The property has admittedly been appropriate for her use (as a gift) and is thus guilty of larceny. Specifically, §1704 Grand Larceny since it is likely said animal cost in excess of $500. Thus, she is subject to §1705 penalties of up to 5 years and a fine of not more than $5,000 for her now sober actions (1 year in prison for petit larceny). So do you have any justification for your opinion, or did you just know the word chattel and wanted to sound like you were on the ball? Sorry to be a jerk, but it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about and additionally, I strongly disagree with your sentiment in this regard. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: dggriffi on January 04, 2008, 04:48:04 pm Well, to be frank, i dont know the law in this regard. Title 21 is probably the incorrect title to use in this case as title 4 deals with animals. Despite this, the article stated that the animal was picked up in texas and thus texas law and its provisions regarding animals and estrays would apply.
Most laws of this nature poses a requirement by the finder to make a "reasonable" effort to find the owner and a time constraint under which this duty is required. FTA the fruit basket who found the dog claimed the address was found much later under the collar. If this is to be believed(which may be a stretch) then she might be under no obligation whatsoever. Her crossing of state lines with the animal is another story all together. The legal aspect of this is secondary to my lack of sympathy. The fact that this couple with no kids is making a huge deal over a dog is, to me, a bit pathetic. The lady who found the dog is also pathetic. I call this the nexus of stupidity. For this i have no sympathy Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: jne on January 04, 2008, 04:57:12 pm quote: All legal matters aside, many people love and treasure their animals. I know I do. If you are a dog owner, you know that dogs are going to get out some time or another. If someone picked up my dog, and did not return her or contact me to pick her up (info on her tags) and I found her, then God have mercy on them, because I probably won't. That said, this is a SAD case. If I were in that couples situation, I would buy an add in the Tulsaworld with a pic of the dog and a plea to do the right thing. She obviously feels guilty. IF she wants to turn her life around, then its time to get straight with people she wronged - sober or not. I wouldn't press charges if she returned the dog. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: AngieB on January 04, 2008, 05:26:03 pm quote: What I find pathetic are those who don't understand the concept of loving and caring for one of God's most loyal and devoted creatures. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: peb on January 04, 2008, 05:27:45 pm As the "daddy" to 3 little 4 legged girls, I take exception to your implication that I am "pathetic". For reasons that are personal, we have no children of our own and our 3 girls fill that void. If by your standards, that makes my wife and I pathetic, then I'm doubly glad that I don't feel the need to live my life to your standards.
The one thing I find strangely absent from your posts in this thread is compassion. The one thing that ALL pets give is unconditional love. Regardless of how bad your day was, or how irate you became at some inconsiderate driver, or how big a jerk your boss was, your pet will still greet you with unconditional love. If you haven't experienced this, or simply cannot understand it, I'd suggest that you're unqualified to post on the subject. Oh, if if someone did something like this to one of MY girls? Their only saving grace would be for the law to arrive before I did. peb Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: tulsascoot on January 04, 2008, 06:56:10 pm quote: You suck. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: cks511 on January 04, 2008, 06:59:00 pm So a drunk tulsan was in dallas and picked up a dog? Been there done that!
Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: dggriffi on January 04, 2008, 07:06:38 pm don't get me wrong, i don't think the woman who took the dog is right. But people making a national news issue over someone stealing a dog lacks emotional stability.
And yes, replacing children with dogs is pathetic. If you cant have kids, you should consider adopting. personification of animals seems slightly demented. As is paying thousands of dollars for animal operations, animal clothes, burial plots, or animal jewelry. If you think that any of those things equate to compassion you are superficial. If i was them, i would miss my dog and it would me mad but a national news story i would not make of it. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: dggriffi on January 04, 2008, 07:14:25 pm quote: Yeah, thats exactly what im referring to. Animals < People except in cases where people depend on those animals(read eco). most of the "emotions" that people infer on dogs are imagination. The do feel and think at varying degrees but not at the level some attribute. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: safetyguy on January 04, 2008, 10:08:23 pm There are thousands of dogs in shelters in Tulsa, why can't she just give this dog back to it's rightful owners??
That would be too simple... Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: dggriffi on January 04, 2008, 11:10:16 pm Well, i think the reason is that she is fruity.
Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: patric on January 04, 2008, 11:37:34 pm quote: (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/01-08/0104scooter.jpg) Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: Conan71 on January 05, 2008, 01:45:02 am quote: So it's a bad thing I've paid $3000 to give my Yorkie a testicle tuck and brow lift as his Christmas present? But what about HIS self-esteem? Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: dggriffi on January 05, 2008, 05:07:39 pm any money spent on testicles is money well spent
Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: cannon_fodder on January 06, 2008, 10:28:17 am quote: Give me a break! You are the one that called the dog "Chattel" and said that it was NOT a crime. I didn't even mention it until YOU brought it. And since you wanted to claim the dog was merely property and NOT entitled to any special treatment I went with it. However, after admitting you have no clue what you are talking about, you then feel the need to assert Okla. Stat. tit. 4 which SPECIFICALLY deals with estray dogs: quote: Unlawful Possession of Estrays, 4 Okla. Stat. § 85.2, available at http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=64746 Thus laying out the specific procedure for an estray animal that is found. HOWEVER, if you keep reading you will note that the subsequent penalties section then directs that failure to comply this this and other applicable provisions "shall be guilty of the felony of larceny of domestic animals and shall be punished according to the provisions of Section 1716 of Title 21 of the Oklahoma Statutes." 4 Okla. Stat. § 85.11. Thus implying the "reasonable effort" requirement you mentioned in addition to the specific animal provisions. What's more, these provisions are more geared towards livestock that dogs and thus an argument could be made for use of the title 21 statutes - but as discussed above the requirements could be included by reference anyway. Thus, anyone who finds a stray dog would be required not only to put forth due diligence to find the owner but also to notify the sheriff. This dumb woman did not even check the collar for an address. One cannot simply ignore the obvious and then claim due diligence (I didn't realize it was a bank, I just saw a draw full of money and took it). Furthermore, she certainly never notified the sheriff's office and has since admitted to wantonly taking the animal for personal game. Another benefit of using Title 4 instead of 21 is that this act is automatically a felony (you don't mess with farmers livestock, and since Title 4 is geared towards livestock the penalties are harsher). So I'm not sure why you wanted to make the argument in favor of title 4 when it adds additional requirements AND harsher penalties when I was allowing you to simply make a case for personal property... but your mistake I suppose. So... this woman violated every provision of either act. She saw something she wanted and she took it. It does not matter if she took it from a mean old woman in Dallas to give to her precious little snowflake - SHE STOLE PROPERTY BECAUSE SHE WANTED IT. Not bread, not medicine, not even clothing... a dog. This lowlife stole someone else's dog in an attempt to make up for years of neglect and probably abandonment. Way to go, those are some fine parenting skills. On what basis do you have the nerve to defend her? The thief's daughter wanted a puppy? Great! I didn't realize how this worked, my boy wanted a RC plane for Christmas and didn't get it because it was too expensive - perhaps you have one I could steal for my boy? Or can I just walk into Toy-R-US and walk out with one explaining that my boy wants it. Not only does your legal argument fail to have any merit, but your alternative "she wanted it more" argument is insulting to a functioning society. It is a national news item (albeit on a fluff scale) because it is so over the line of acceptable behavior as to cause most people some disbelief (not just the act, but to follow with the letter). --- quote: Why? First, this was an older couple. Perhaps their kids have grown and left the home. Perhaps they were unable to have children and religious conviction did not allow them to adopt. Hey, maybe they did not have the financial means to properly take care of a child so abstained from doing so. Maybe they were worthless drunks who would have neglected their children so they chose not to expose a child to that. Or maybe they thought that having a child was not right for them and chose accordingly. The world is not short on children. It is short on qualified parents (doesn't stop breeding habits of lowlifes) and children available for adoption. So it would make NO SENSE at all to mandate or even desire a couple not wanting children to produce one or two. It would be bad for the kid, harder on society, and ultimately causes more problems. So go get your dog. Blow whatever money you want on it. So long as you don't ask me to subsidize it's existence and leave it to society to take care of it when you either decide you don't want to or have them taken away and so long as if we decide your dog is a menace we can just have it killed... I'm ok with that. But don't just have kids; I'll end up paying for them and when they grow up to be criminals we are not allowed to just put them down. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: HazMatCFO on January 06, 2008, 12:53:54 pm quote: Send them to the People's Court or the other dozen or so Judge shows on daytime TV now. Sounds like a ratings winner to me. After Judge Wapner, the rest are just sloppy seconds. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: dggriffi on January 06, 2008, 08:02:09 pm again, texas law applies. Your right about the legal aspect though as Texas law is probably close to Oklahoma law. I made no alternate claim.
If your dog gets out, and i pick it up. I will not expend much trouble to return it and frankly i shouldn't be forced to. they weren't old. they are late 20's DINKs. Replacing children with dogs is pathetic and always will be. Why? i guess god just made it that way. Adoption? Probably better than foster in almost every case. Lady who picked up the dog. Fruity. People who make national news out of it. Fruity. Anyone who needs to "rally" to their side in their time of "need". wait for it.... Fruity. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: Radar on January 07, 2008, 11:12:12 pm dggriffi---
I find you to be a real crappy person. I hope that you never loose one that you love. Pets can give so much. I feel bad for you. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: Breadburner on January 08, 2008, 09:55:04 am quote: Was that for you or the dog.....[:D] Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: Conan71 on January 08, 2008, 11:27:16 am quote: We got a twofer. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: dggriffi on January 08, 2008, 12:25:10 pm quote: Thanks for lighting the way with your extra special brand of goodness. I have had several animals, all where close to me and all where hard to lose. The difference is that I have children, and if you don't, then you can dilute yourself into thinking they can equate to a animal. If you do, then you already know that its silly to elevate pets to human status. Considering all the real issues and the heavy levels of actual need in the world, I find such incredible outrage over a stolen dog to be out of proportion. Your probably the kind of person that thinks that dogs should be cherished but illegal immigrants should be booted back to Mexico regardless on the effects to the children. Title: Woman Finds Dog, Tells Owner She's Keeping It Post by: patric on January 09, 2008, 06:42:43 pm Reward, and contact info:
http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=142709 |